AS-22-0015

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TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 85% of 186 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.

1. 1Jun 21, 2022
   Board of County CommissionersP64Public hearingApproved

   Approved minutes

   Approved to do an amendment to what has been approved to bring back a full retail ban in addition to what had been stated in the Ordinance that would not interfere with agricultural sales or State Statutes.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 15:57
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   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   15:57Move to continue time certain. Second.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   15:59All in favor? Aye. Opposed, thank you. P sixty-four. Please announce the

   Nikki Alvarez

   16:05okay. Item P sixty four was published in the Tampe Bay Times on June eighth, twenty twenty two.

   Mike Moore

   16:14Good afternoon, Commissioner. Mike Schumate, Director of Pasco County Administrator. Uh P sixty four is uh ordinance amendments chapter fourteen animals.

   16:26Uh just brief background uh on February twenty second. Uh this year uh the board heard presentation from Animal Services Department regarding the abandonment of animals in the wild. From various retail revenues and a lack of public education on rabbit ownership. Uh the board directed animal services to initiate an ordinance amendment to chapter 14. To add rabbits to the list of pets prohibited for sale in public places and required certificates of source. For the retail sale of pet rabbits in

   16:56pet stores. Um so that's where we are today. Uh it's uh presenting an ordinance uh amendment. uh to the Board of County Commissioners um Chapter 14. of the PASCO Code relating to animals, uh providing

   17:15For definitions to include rabbits, providing for restrictions on the sale of rabbits in public places, providing for removal of rescue tag definitions and exemptions, providing for enforcement. Um Penalties and remedies for violation, providing for applicability, repealer, separability, inclusion into the Code of ordinance pro uh providing for the transmission of the ordinance to the Department of State and providing for an effective date. So basically we're adding um

   17:45In our definition section. We'll be adding rabbits to the definitions that pertain to animal rescue organizations, breeders, brokers, certificate of source, pet dealers, pet sellers, and pet stores. We're also going to be removing uh a reference to or definition of rescue tags. Um this uh also there's an exemption for rescue tags in 1496, and we're doing this because this particular definition has not uh um been applied

   18:16to anything in in about ten and a half years since we started the Save Ninety program. Rescue organizations buy their own licenses. Um the other uh sections of the ordinance that'll be amended is section fourteen one oh eight, which is the primary focus of retail sales on dogs, cats, and rabbits. We've added rabbits to this section. We've added certificate of sources uh required by uh pet stores now to sell rabbits, also sales uh records,

   18:46uh requirements by pet stores to account for their sales. of rabbits and we're prohibiting the sale of rabbits in public and private streets. flea markets, parking lots, or or open air venues. Um This coincides with the same ordinance we had for puppies, kittens, cats and dogs. We also restrict the sale of rabbits by breeders, pet dealers, or large kennels. who typically are permitted uh in locations only.

   19:16Section one oh eight also is adding rabbits to the penalty section. Um and in section fourteen one fifteen we're prohibiting the transfer of rabbits along with dogs and cats uh from anyone or to anyone. Who is on the animal abuser registry?

   19:34Animal Services recommends uh you accept public comment. Adopt the proposed ordinance amendment by roll call vote, authorize the chairman's signature and s on the same. and direct board records to transmit the ordinance amendment in the coding form by electronic mail to the Department of State within ten days after enactment.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   19:55Thank you. Um board members, do we have any questions before we open it up to the public?

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   19:59No. We'll wait for public.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   20:02Okay. Um do we have

   Nikki Alvarez

   20:03anyone signed up to speak on this ordinance? We do and we have um some on WebEx as well. Okay. So I'll go ahead and call the ones that are here. Um we first have Kurt Marsh. Followed by I think it's Mary Lynn. Hm I can't I don't I can't see the last name. Mr. Marsh, would you go ahead?

   Curtis Marsh

   20:22Uh good morning or good afternoon. My name is Curtis Marsh. I am president of Sun Coast House Rabbit Rescue. I live at [address removed]. Okay. I'm glad we finally got this far. Uh just to reiterate in the last seventy two hours we've been contacted In the Tampa Bay area again, by over with people with twenty two rabbits looking to rehome them. And that's just this weekend. So anything you can do to stop the constant

   20:54flow of rabbits will help. Um and it's not included in the ordinance and all the talks that I've had, there's been some concern by some commissioners around the area. They're always worried about if we take ban the you know, stop the sale of rabbits, it'll take food off of someone's table. There are no pet stores. selling rabbits that people are eating. That's a whole different Ball of wax that goes somewhere else. Has nothing to do with pest stores. No one's buy buying a hundred and twenty-five

   21:24dollar rabbit. To turn around and raise food.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   21:27Hopefully.

   Curtis Marsh

   21:28Hopefully.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   21:29I mean

   Curtis Marsh

   21:29if they are it's never

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   21:30say

   Curtis Marsh

   21:31never. They're they're they're not buying a rabbit that's three pounds. They're you know, no one's eating Quail and Cornish hands anymore either. So Um Anyway, I can't don't have anything else to say other than please vote yes. Yeah, I

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   21:47I think we are, but I can't speak for everybody. Um anyone else want to speak?

   Nikki Alvarez

   21:56I have a list. Do you want me

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   21:57to go

   Nikki Alvarez

   21:57down the list? Okay. Okay. Although

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   21:59although we could save trouble if I mean maybe if people knew it It was gonna be favorable and we didn't we wouldn't have to have everybody come up. But uh my

   Mary Lynn Fusel

   22:10name is Mary Land O' Lakes.

   22:16Doesn't go low enough for me. Uh my name is Mary Lynn Fusel. I live in Pasco County and I recently had the opportunity to foster some rabbits and I just became aware of how sensitive they are, not only physically but emotionally. And these stores and these uh Both sides just don't understand that just want to sell them and make some money on them and I think that's very cruel and unfair to these little

   22:46critters. If there's anything you can do to help these ban the sales of these rabbits appreciate it.

   Nikki Alvarez

   22:54Thank you. Ms. Fasel, did you give your address for the record?

   Mary Lynn Fusel

   22:58Yes, it's on

   Nikki Alvarez

   22:58there. It's [address removed].

   Mary Lynn Fusel

   23:01If you could uh speak it into the record, thank you. Um [address removed]. Thank you. [address removed]. Okay, thank you, ma'am.

   Nikki Alvarez

   23:11All right, I have um Gwen Burley, Followed by the I think it's Sanjay Schwartz.

   23:22Gwen Burley? Okay.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   23:25It's about as big as the dog, isn't it?

   Gwen Burley

   23:30My name is Gwen Burley. I live at [address removed], which is over on the east coast. So I drove to this side of the state for several reasons. One is to support a rabbit ordinance that includes no sales by pet stores. Um I'm here so that uh I'm not I'm not um an anonymous keyboard warrior.

   24:01I've written a lot of emails to you. I had kind of hoped that the information that I shared with you supported no sales at pet stores. Um I thought I kind of made it clear that the pet stores become community friendly. when they are prohibited from retail sales. They then turn around and advocate for adoption. Um I think I think there's two ways to handle the rabbit

   24:31issue. You can either have action or you can have apathy. When something comes up in our lives that's uncomfortable We can make a choice to either be proactive or we can make a default decision. So I kind of think what you're doing is making a default decision so that you don't have to deal with backlash from your stores. Um I think

   24:59I'll speak for myself anyway. Often when I choose not to address a problem, life will deliver us a circumstance that is too large to ignore. And I think that then you have to make decisions and your excuse is that you no longer had a choice. I think you have to look at your animal services and uh decide whether you're being irresponsible in that you could have a large rabbit

   25:30Abandonment event? Or you could have um a hoarder situation, which happens a lot. I think we've documented that. And then your animal services is up the proverbial creek. There's no support.

   25:47You have another minute. Okay. So I mean do you have any questions about that? Do you understand what happens if your animal services gets fifty rabbit situation, a hundred rabbit situation? Rabbit rescues are the ones that have always stepped in to help animal services around this state. and they're they're underwater.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   26:13We don't talk back and forth when people at the podium.

   Gwen Burley

   26:16Yeah. I was hoping

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   26:17you have questions.

   Nikki Alvarez

   26:20Okay.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   26:20Thank

   Nikki Alvarez

   26:21you. Um Sanjay Schwartz Schwartz. Is that correct? Mm. Followed by Miriam Parham.

   Sunia Schwartz

   26:31Good afternoon. My name is Sunia Schwartz. I'm at [address removed]. And I'm here today. Do you express my support for the proposed ordinance change that would prohibit the sale of rabbits in public spaces? However, I would like to encourage you to not stop there, but take a step further and consider a full ban on the sale of rabbits in pet stores. As you probably noticed, none of the pet stores thus far have made an

   27:01appearance at any of the previous meetings to voice their concern over a potential stop-of-rabbit sales at their stores. Many of the pet store employees are even in support of a full ban as they realize that pets are often that rabbits are often an impulse by and need a lot of care and a lot are a lot more work than many people realize. In Orlando, pet supermarket immediately reached out to rescues to hold adoption events after the rabbit sail ban went into effect. The sales of rabbits

   27:31don't even make a big dent into the overall sales of the stores that sell them. So please consider the welfare of these intelligent and fragile creatures and consider a full ban. Of rabbits in the future. Thank you.

   Nikki Alvarez

   27:46Thank you. Miriam Parham. Followed by Diane Kuhn.

   Miriam Parham

   28:00Hello, my name is Miriam Parham and I am a Pasco resident for the past 27 years and also worked in healthcare. I'm at [address removed]. I also represent Florida Voices for Animals, a nonprofit organization with over 4,500 supporters. Our mission is to educate the public about animal abuse and exploitation, but with the current situation, I know we talked about education, providing some piece of paper, telling them how to care for the rabbit. That's not enough. Most probably won't read it. And if the pet shops don't understand or agree with the problems faced by the

   28:30rabbits during their lifetime, you know, how can they provide education? I went to one place and they directed me to a book, a big thick book, about how to

   28:42There's really no humane way to breed transporter cell rabbits. The entire industry it causes extreme suffering to make a profit. The breeders could be like puppy mills. Some have been confirmed to be. The transporters, the cages are tightly packed with baby bunnies, and even short distances can be very stressful, extremely stressful to the baby bunnies. The retailers often keep them in wire cages. You've seen the pictures and with other issues. With how they're in there. But finally, it's the consumer. It's been mentioned. There's a lot of suffering and abuse that occurs

   29:12in the hand of many well meaning consumers. Who are unaware of the care required, as has been pointed out. And not only that they chew a lot of things, but they they really don't like to be picked up or held by young kids who don't know how to hold them, so they can be easily injured or killed during interactions. They're not toys and they can scratch little arms and faces of kids trying to pick 'em up when they struggle and they're in discomfort and stress. And usually they're timid, but they can be startled and they can bite. And I mentioned before they can be easily become sick and

   29:42they're good at hiding it until it's too late. So with all these concerns it's not surprising that children or parents tire of the caregiving necessary and no longer want them. And we've talked before about they're rarely good options. The shelters and the sanctuaries are full, and so when they're turned away because there's no more room or people don't know where to take them, that's where more suffering and tragedy begins because then sadly they're released to survive on their own. A huge challenge for domestic rabbits. and

   30:12um they're not just extreme temperatures but predators can get them. So the recent stories of a lot of abandoned domesticated rabbits found skinny, malnourished, injured, are growing. It's a huge challenge for, as we said, the shelters and sanctuaries. And they're overwhelmed, and it's heartbreaking to all of them. So please listen to the facts and what we're sharing with you. Those innocent creatures are suffering and they really don't have good options. So please join the progressive counties in Florida like DeSorange and most recently Martin County, and cities like Key West and Port and

   30:42Port St. Lucie, and states like California and New York who banned the rabbit retail sales. This is really a year-round travel.

   30:52But please do the right thing today. Please protect those innocent bunnies from the tragic outcomes. So please just ban the retail sale of rabbits. I do thank you for the ban in the public places. That's a start, but we need to go the whole way that it's headed in all these other places. Thank you so much for your time.

   Nikki Alvarez

   31:07Thank you. Diane Kuhn followed by Marie Goldbrecht.

   Curtis Marsh

   31:13I think so, yes. Okay. So

   Diane Kuhn

   31:19Hello, my name is Diane Kuhn and I live at [address removed] in [address removed]. Um I'm also a member of Florida Voices for Animals. And I'm here today um to let you know that I support a full retail rabbit ban in Pasco County and I appreciate your time. Thank you.

   Nikki Alvarez

   31:37Thank you.

   31:42Marie Galbraith? Thank you. Followed by Dara Kristal.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   31:52Yeah. Hello, my name is Marie Galbraith. I live at [address removed] in [address removed]. And I am on a board member I am a board member of Florida Voices for Animals. Um I did speak at the previous meeting that you had concerning the rabbits, and I am speaking on their behalf. I do support a full retail rabbit ban. I have sent you emails. Several

   32:24emails and so you have all the information that that I wanted to present to you. So please do.

   32:35Do the right thing by the rabbits. Thank you.

   32:41Dara

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   32:41Kristal,

   Nikki Alvarez

   32:42followed by Renee Rivard.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   32:44Um, could you go ahead and line up if you're here to speak about the rabbits and It'd be great if you could say something different, because We have a lot of people saying the same thing and if you want to make an another point that'd be great. We have a very busy day. Is there is there anyone else that wants to speak about rabbits? Please get in line. And if you're the last one raising your hand, you'll be the last speaker on rabbits. Thank you.

   Dara Crystal

   33:11Hi there. My name is Dara Crystal. I am [address removed] in [address removed]. I'm calling for a full retail ban of the rabbits, flea markets, pet stores, you know, you you name it, the rescues, or of course, as they've mentioned, um overflowing. Um So at uh nearly 1,500 signatures, um we have a petition online. um

   33:42stating that uh the public's ready for for a full ban. You know, the rescues are going out, trapping uh rabbits out and about. Um and uh not not to mention it's it it really is tough on the on these creatures. Um that being said, they're very docile. Um they're not pets for children. Um they they definitely are Uh animals

   34:12that require specific care. Um and a large amount of the population just don't know how to properly care for them. Uh most likely they become overwhelmed and then they release them outside. Um if they can't get them into shelters or rescues. Um so that being said, we're ready we're ready for a change. Um so please support a full um retail ban um of the rabbits. Thank you very much. Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   34:41Hello Commissioner's Renee Rivard. [address removed]. I respect the folks who do animal rescue. I work on animal legislature. Ma'am ma'am, we need your address please. Oh, PO Box eighty one, [address removed]. I respect the folks and your zip code. [address removed]. Thank you. I respect the folks who do animal rescue. I work on animal legislation. I don't do animal rescue. I don't do animal rescue because I would be angrier than I already

   35:12am. angry that people abuse animals, angry that animals suffer and die so people can make money. Angry that many legislators turn their heads. The buck should stop here. You are the people who make the rules. Your Animal Services Director said 80% of pet rabbits die, are surrendered, or abandoned in the first year. I repeat, eighty percent of pet rabbits die, are surrendered, or

   35:42abandoned in the first year. In addition to Suncoast House Rabbit Rescue, you already have a new brick and mortar rescue taking in rabbits, Runaways Animal Rescue. I am sure their intent was to help animal services with dogs and cats, but now they're taking in rabbits and spending their resources on them. I saw eight rabbits up for adoption on their website. Last year the Tampa Humane Society spent forty thousand dollars just to spay and neuter the two hundred and sixty-one rabbits they took in last year. That

   36:13forty thousand dollars could have been used to help animal services with cats and dogs. Tampa Humane Society's CEO supports a full retail rabbit ban. Penellus SPCA took in almost a thousand rabbits in the last three years. Pasco is growing in population and soon your unwanted pet rabbits numbers will catch up to Hillsborough and Penellas. Your rabbit rescue and those across the state ha have to re that rely on fosters are overwhelmed and struggling to keep up. For

   36:43them it never ends. Their lives are ruined by this problem. Please help them, Commissioners. You don't allow rabbits at your animal services. Rabbits are the third given up pet, given up in high numbers. Education means nothing. People still give up dogs and cats. Do something to help them. Even if it's an Easter ban, uh to stop the retail sales during March and April. If people can't find a rescue to rehome

   37:13their unwanted pet rabbits, they dump them outside and dump them in pairs where they Multiply quickly into colonies up to a hundred rabbits. The Florida Department of Agriculture Agriculture is on high alert for deadly rabbit virus, which these store rabbits bring into our state. The virus could wipe out our entire wild rabbit population. Fifteen years ago, Petco and PetSmart stopped selling rabbits because of this problem. Um other pet stores can still can do the same, go to an adoption model and still make

   37:43money off of the supplies. Rabbits are only about one to two percent of their business. Please set an example, Commissioner. Make a motion to add rabbits to your dog and cat band, the third most given up pet. Make the stop the bucks stop here. Thank you.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   38:01And our last speaker that's here. We have some online. That's you.

   Unidentified speaker

   38:07Well

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   38:07yeah. Yeah. And we don't have any online? We do. Yeah.

   Barbara Costa

   38:12Good afternoon, Commissioners. My name is Barbara Costa. I live at [address removed]. I'm here in support of a full retail ban on the sale of rabbits. I am the Rescue and Adoption Coordinator for Cats for Possum Village Rescue based in Newport Ritchie. Um, I have been doing cats for thirty-five years. I've been telling people for thirty-five years, spay and neuter is what you have to do. And have

   38:42it really done a whole lot of good. I know animal services is overwhelmed. With cats coming in, with dogs coming in, they don't have space to take rabbits. Runaways didn't start to take rabbits, but they're taking rabbits because there's nowhere else. I get calls, oh will you take cats? Will you take my rabbit? I'm unable to do that. So I have to tell these people, I'm sorry, I can't help you. And they asked me what I would do. Uh we Tell

   39:13them go to where you bought the rabbit. Well I went into pet supermarket and I asked the employees there and they said they sell them but they're not allowed to take them back if someone doesn't want them. And when I asked them, Well, what do you tell people? And they said, We don't know what to tell people. So we know what happens to a lot of 'em. People abandon them. They don't think of them as sentient beings. They don't understand that they breed. Like crazy and the virus

   39:43that's being spread f coming in from Europe in rabbits will eventually go to our wild population and that's the end of rabbits. If people don't care about the wild rabbits, care about the predators that survive on them. Uh so I'm asking you to please support a total retail ban on the sale of rabbits, including pet stores. Pet Smart and Pet Co don't sell rabbits and they both do great. Thank you very much for your time. Okay,

   Nikki Alvarez

   40:11we'll move on to the online speakers. All right, we have Anne Marie Cansi Cancio.

   40:24Is she on? Can

   Anne Marie Cancio

   40:27you hear me? We can hear you now if we can. Okay, thank you. My name is Anne Marie Cancio. I live at [address removed] in [address removed]. [address removed]. And um I I am taking heed of of your call to you know kind of reduce what we have to say. I don't have anything to add that's original, but uh I did want to call and express my interest in this topic. So the only thing I I want to say is

   40:57just that I believe that the Pasco Board of County Commissioners has a golden opportunity to drastically change the situation. and to help ease the plight of rabbit rescues and the staggering number of abandoned rabbits in their charge by approving a county ordinance to ban the retail sales of rabbits. So I urge you to give rabbits the same consideration and mercy that was extended to dogs and cats when this body took action to ban the retail sales of dogs and cats in 2020. Thank you so much.

   Nikki Alvarez

   41:26Thank you. Next. Next we have Laura Pennyton.

   41:33Hold on just a moment. We're

   41:42Okay, Ms. Pennyton, we can probably hear you now if you'd like to begin.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   41:47Okay. Um Yes, I'd also like to say support. Laura, need your name and

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   41:53address for the record, please.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   41:55Oh sure. Laura Pennington, [address removed]. Um, part of the reason they started to speak at some of these things is that I I found a a dead abandoned rabbit in the park fairly recently and it kinda made me sad. I had Rabbits curling up, they are very sensitive, sweet animals. They are hard to care for. A couple of mine got killed by predators, a couple got poisoned. And it was traumatic

   42:25for me, for my sister, for my family. And it was it was heartbreaking and I think it's something that's easily avoidable by this retail ban because I do think In my family's case and in a lot of families it's an impulse purchase. My daughter for years bugged me to get a rabbit and I just said, No, I don't think they make good pets for children and it was tough. She bugged me for probably a decade and I kept saying no because They are sweet, sensitive.

   42:55They're not like dogs and cats. They don't make great pets for children. So I'd like you to consider that when you vote. Thank you so much. Thank you.

   Nikki Alvarez

   43:06Next speaker is Nina Perino. Hold on just a moment.

   43:16We can hear you now. If you state your name and address for the record and you pro you can proceed.

   Unidentified speaker

   43:22Okay, thank you.

   43:26Megan Cork, [address removed].

   43:31Okay. Okay.

   Nikki Alvarez

   43:32Go ahead.

   Unidentified speaker

   43:32I've been listening to what everybody has said thus

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   43:39Mm. I fully support everything that they have said and all the points that they have brought up. So th well said by everybody so far. Um and I do support a full retail ban on rabbits. This is a great opportunity to please alleviate this horrible situation. Um, and that's about all I have to say. I just fully support the full re We'll retail them on record. Please. Please. Thank you so much.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   44:06Thank you.

   Nikki Alvarez

   44:07Next, this is the last one that's on WebEx. Ashland Saint Clair. Hold on just a moment. And you should be good.

   Ashlyn Saint Clair

   44:17Uh hi, my name is Ashlyn Saint Clair. I'm from [address removed].

   44:30Okay, I'm I'm here to just uh again support the full retail ban of rabbits and just touch on a few points that uh you've heard everybody else say that these are sensitive animals and that is right on point. Um if these animals get scared. in a certain way they can pass away from a heart attack. If they're held the wrong way, they can break their backs trying to escape. They can scratch and

   45:00claw at children. I've visited many pet stores and have watched um people come in, handle the rabbits improperly. I've seen improper care the rabbits flies. um flying around that can lay eggs in their ears and uh cause mites. Um I I've taken care of several rabbits in my lifetime and um it breaks my heart to see all of these recipes. So so full uh abandoned and

   45:30mistreated rabbits. And I would just like to say that I I too support the full amount of rabbits and I won't take up um any more of your time, but just to say I support this as well.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   45:45Thank you.

   45:49Okay. All right, board members. Yes.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   45:55There it is.

   46:02I assume this is the question other might be asking as well. Okay, so or wrote the ordinance, you know, talked obviously I would assume you you reached out and spoke with all the commissioners and stuff. I mean I did um Travel around uh some of the and I apologize. My microphone give me one side. There we go. Is that better? Um I traveled around some of the uh pet stores in in my area. And I when I say my area around Wesley Chapel, Lana Lakes. I didn't see any rabbits recently.

   46:32I'm not saying they don't have them. Um But in your I mean listen, I mean

   46:39You don't take rabbits. Typically.

   Liam Devine

   46:42Typically.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   46:43Typically don't. Right. I mean uh but if we do it all right, uh all out ban on retail sales of rabbits. Um

   46:57You'd say fine.

   Mike Moore

   46:59Yes.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   47:00Okay. Now now the other question would be If that's the direction this board decides to go in

   47:09You do have feed stores. Right. Rabbits. for breeding and for feed. Um I I know of at least two f feed stores around the Lena Lakes area. I think there's some on the west side as well.

   Curtis Marsh

   47:27Are they retail?

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   47:28Yeah. Well that's that I guess that's the question. How do you distinguish between the two? Now listen, this guy doesn't eat rabbits. But some people do, and some people some people breed them for agriculture uses. Um how do you distinguish the two?

   Mike Moore

   47:43For me they're all retail. Okay. I mean when we look at retail because they're housing those animals in their stores, there's a There's an element of that that is inhumane as I visit some of them that you see. Um I think that if people want rabbits, there's other agricultural sources. that they could get 'em from. Um like for example what? You know,

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   48:08if

   Mike Moore

   48:08if a lot of four H breeders out there.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   48:10So say if a farmer wanted to have rabbits, how would they go about doing

   Mike Moore

   48:13that? I'm not sure exactly how they go about it, honestly, but uh I think there's enough uh breeders out there that legitimately sell rabbits and But they could find those if they wanted them.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   48:27All right. Those are questions.

   48:30I mean I the one of the suggestions um was also made looking at um around Easter time because that's when the most sales take place and I think they mentioned like a February, March, April type of situation. Or maybe it was just March and April, but

   Mike Moore

   48:45I think the other thing to consider too is wherever they're getting those that they're gonna use for food or for growing or for agricultural purposes. Those are not the ones they're abandoning.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   48:56And I I think one of the speakers mentioned that as well. That's typically not the case. Um Okay, that's all I have for now.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   49:03Madam Chairman Mariano. Yep. If I can follow up on the Commissioner's in line of inquiry, um What the ordinance that has been advertised for public hearing today is in public places. You would have to readvertise to include

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   49:23I understand. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate Yeah, no, thanks. I don't appreciate it. Yeah. I just wanted to ask, you know, Mike these questions. I just

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   49:30didn't want a motion to be made.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   49:31No, no, I I thank you. No, I think and and oh so let me follow up on that too. I I I guess you could always, again, if so, if the board so inclines is you could m possibly move forward with the ordinance of today. And then if you want to make an amendment to it, we would have we would have to move forward with that.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   49:51That would be my recommendation and you'd we'd have to see what the governor's office did with the business damage legislation.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   49:59Right.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   50:00Which is on his desk but he hasn't signed. So

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   50:04I would assume some of the folks out there are aware of what Speaking of the So again today you would not be able to since it's not advertised do an all out retail ban You would have to advertise that to allow the public or those concerned citizens to come speak on it. But today we can move forward with this. If we want to bring back the other, we would have to advertise it again. Thank you, ma'am.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   50:33So I um I mentioned when we brought this up before that I was for the tot the ban. Yeah, so just getting that on the record. Uh yeah.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   50:44Mike, there's no way to determine like to separate retail and wholesale, like a farmer or something who buys them in massive quantities compared to the one by one sale in a retail store. There's no way to divide that?

   Mike Moore

   50:55I'm not sure what would define those two. To separate them out. We could certainly look into it. Yeah, we could look at the agricultural aspect of it. Because I believe that if you are strictly dealing with agricultural sales, uh it's protected under I believe the Farm Act. So I would

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   51:15assume it would be

   Mike Moore

   51:16four H things like that, I believe are protected. So we could look at that a little further if we used to.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   51:23Madam Chair. Yep. Again, I d uh you know, again I don't I just don't want us to go down a slippery slope on the agriculture side where we open up.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   51:31But I don't think they buy their product at a pet store.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   51:35I just want to make sure. That's why you know I wanted County Attorney to come in too. So I'll if if we're done with Comments now I hear I'll I'll make the motion to approve this today. Um and then I'll make a separate motion and bring back the other because we can't do the other today. Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   51:51Second on your first motion.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   51:53Okay. Okay. Um roll call vote. So we'll do a roll call vote.

   Nikki Alvarez

   51:58District one, Commissioner Oakley. Aye. District two, Commissioner Oakley. District four, Commissioner Fitzpatrick. Aye. District five, Commissioner Oriano. Aye. District three, Chairman Starkey. Aye.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   52:10So Madam Chair, so I will um make a motion to bring back the full retail ban. and advertise it. What I guess would be a m actually let me restate my motion. I'd Do an amendment to what's been approved today to bring back a full retail ban. Uh in addition to what's been stated in this ordinance.

   52:35Okay.

   Christina Fitzpatrick

   52:37Where does where do they purchase their four H rabbits from?

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   52:41I

   Mike Moore

   52:42don't know. Typically they're getting theirs from family members who have been through four H before, other friends they know in the school system that sponsors the four H and also agricultural sources. So Farms, things like that. So I would ask one clarification. Do you want me to come back to the right-of-way? with any kind of exemption. I prefer not to. I'd like to make it a full ban. Without any exceptions. Or exemptions because in our retail ban on dogs and cats, we

   53:12did have one store in Pasco that was selling puppies and kittens and we allowed them an extension. That store no longer exists. So I'd like to remove the entire exemption from the ordinance if I can.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   53:23I I think Mr. Steinstein would probably be answered that and he also wants like he stated before we have to see what's He's he's gonna have to

   53:33do that. Look that over as well.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   53:39it it gets signed at this point. It's he apparently he's got until the July second to to sign

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   53:48Next Friday.

   Mike Moore

   53:48We've actually heard testimony from other councils where Pet stores have come And the numbers they gave. We're not significant to the fifteen percent loss.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   54:00Okay.

   Mike Moore

   54:00Just on rabbit sales and rabbit things. So I I doubt it's even gonna be be it'd probably be a mute issue, really.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   54:08Right.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   54:11Yeah. Motion second to bring bit back. No exemptions.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   54:16Well the you might want to have I think that what I'm saying. Mr. Schumate is saying is he wants to get rid of the exemption that's already in, but you probably do want to have an exemption for agricultural sales. Yeah. Yes. From what I from what I'm hearing.

   Mike Moore

   54:37But we'll work with the Okay

   Christina Fitzpatrick

   54:38exactly. What about the rabbits that have been rescued? Are they allowed to resell or re adopt them out?

   Mike Moore

   54:47Typically what we do with the like we did with the puppy and dogs, um those stores can s sell. Technically, if they're sponsoring actually we don't allow the stores to sell, we allow them to host the rescues who sell. And we have allowed animal welfare organizations to do that. Under the ordinance.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   55:10Okay.

   Mike Moore

   55:11That's what Petco and Pet Smart do right now with dogs and cats and kittens and puppies.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   55:16Right.

   Mike Moore

   55:16They just open their doors and allow 'em to Sell the animals because they know if the cells of the animals are there, the cell of the supplies that they host. That's their business and that's why they do it. So Madam

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   55:28Clerk, we're good to call a motion.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   55:30Uh yeah. It it does not have to be a roll call. This is a regular case. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay. Thank you. Thanks. Next one.