Pasco County meeting record

Every appearance1 of 1 are in a recording

TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 99% of 119 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.

1May 17, 2022
Board of County CommissionersR58Regular businessNo disposition in the minutes
Open this item →
24m
Kathryn StarkeyChair
Okay, let's move on to the first R. And Commissioner Oakley is not here. Uh but this is a R 58, a presentation by Chuck. A lot of public work stuff today, so you're here on the right day, right?
Chuck Carden
Yes, ma'am. There was quite a few people I thought they were here to see this presentation.
Not so that's great.
I just want to thank you, Madam Chair, and members of the board, for having me today. Uh for those of you who don't know me, my name is Chuck Carden. I'm the general manager for Tampa Bay Water and uh Tampa Bay Water is your regional wholesale water provider. Uh Tampa Bay Water was created by the member governments about twenty-five years uh next year will be our twenty-fifth anniversary. And we are the sole and exclusive drinking water provider for the Tampa Bay region. The
local government's decision to create Tampa Bay Water back in nineteen ninety eight is one reason that our economy And our environment has thrived for the past twenty-five years. Water fuels our economy and we built a diversified and interconnected system that supplied the region for more than two decades in a very environmentally sound manner.
And currently this is uh what our sources look like. Uh there are three of them on the graph uh as you see. groundwater, sea water from uh we desouth it and um our river water. Currently, we're running about 188 million gallons a day to serve our customers. And twenty-five years ago this pie graph looked quite different. It was a hundred percent groundwater, as you may know up here. And
Kathryn StarkeyChair
Pasco County groundwater. Yeah.
Chuck Carden
And right now, these three sources serve um enough water and treatment capacity to meet the region's needs for about the next seven years. And that'll keep our economy thriving, but uh as the population grows, we need more water.
These are the current demands of the six member governments and as you can see. Uh Pasco County, the second bar, the set of bars. is growing. Quite a bit. Hillsburg County as well. But in Pasco County you're taking about thirty five million gallons a day. And just to put that in perspective, uh I worked for Pasco County. Mm thirty years ago those numbers were seventeen million for Pasco. I can still remember it. So you've
doubled it in the thirty years uh since then. Right now we're working on uh bringing on new sources by twenty twenty eight to meet the growing needs. And since 2018-2018, we've been studying three new water supply options. And um they've been in feasibility studies to see uh which one we could select next. The first one is a new groundwater well field in southern Hillsburg County. And it's made possible through uh aquifer
recharge credits uh by Hillsbrook County, where they would inject uh treated reclaim water on the coast and allow us to withdraw drinking water, fresh drinking water inland about five miles in southern Hillsbrook County. The next project is expanding our surface water treatment plant capacity. We have a plant currently in the Brandon area that's um 120 million gallons a day. We've already uh increased it once back in 2010, and so this would be the next round, uh increasing it by another twenty million gallons a
day. And the third option that we're looking at is uh expanding the D Sell facility uh down there in Apollo Beach next to the Big Bend Power Station. It currently does uh it can do up to twenty-five million gallons a day, and this would be an extension uh to increase that uh yielding all of these projects except for the groundwater well field uh would yield at least ten million gallons a day. Yesterday we had our uh Tampa Bay Water monthly board meeting, as
Commissioner Starkey uh knows very well. Um The Board did vote to withdraw and uh remove the South Hillsburg County Well Field at this time during this master water plan cycle. Uh it will be put back in the next cycle, which actually is next year. But currently there's uh only two options left here, the surface water expansion and the D Sell expansion. Uh so we're concentrating our efforts on these two projects to meet our needs for the next
supply. We'll talk about the surface water treatment plan expansion first. It um Has uh two components to it and that in could include expanding the existing plant that I spoke of at its site or building a new one down by the reservoir which is in southern Hillsburg County. Uh so that would be a new uh reservoir a new surface water treatment plant down there. The capital cost range from uh ninety-one million to a hundred and forty-six million. Um
and also in a cost per thousand basis, a lifecycle cost, those costs are $1.44 to $2.31.
The next plant, uh the seawater D Sow expansion, uh is very important to our system because it's drought proof. Currently um We're taking about sixteen million gallons a day, and we use that plant uh during different times of the year in the dry season, which is currently where we're at. This facility could uh be expanded to provide another ten million gallons a day. But it is a very highly uh A lot of equipment, mechanical, uh facility, and it's got a much higher
capital cost, as you see there, three hundred and ten million to three hundred and sixty-five million. And that cost per thousand is about eight dollars and fifty-six cents.
So as I mentioned just now the cost in my overviews, cost is not the only factor that we are looking at as we select the next project or a combination of the projects. Uh they also we are also considering environmental sustainability and reliability. Under each of these headings, uh there is a a lot of detailed criteria under them. For example, cost includes capital cost, operations and maintenance, lifecycle cost, and whether the project can be phased.
Environmental stewardship includes permitting, carbon footprint, and public acceptance. And reliability includes resiliency, technology, risk factors, uh all that go into the project to make it fit into our existing system.
And uh here's a schedule that we talked about uh yesterday. We had a presentation from our system engineer. So over the next several months, uh we will be discussing these project concepts with your utility directors. Mr. Karbala and his staff is new utility director. Uh we will be also talking to the public and also to our board. We have uh moved up the schedule a little bit from the news that I just gave you. We were trying to uh have the board select in the late months
of this year, maybe in uh October through December, but we believe now that we're down to the two project concepts, we will be available to uh recommend something by this August for the Tampa Bay Water Board.
And that concludes my brief presentation for you. I would be happy to take any questions. Madam Chairman got a question.
Mike Moore
You were talking about the cost per um thousand gallons c earlier, correct? Yes, sir. Okay. So currently if you're pulling out of the well fields in Pasco County. What is the cost per thousand gallons.
Chuck Carden
I generally give that answer. It's been asked quite a bit. Uh for the three sources, uh one.
Mike Moore
Crossbar, Cypress, and uh Starkey.
Chuck Carden
Yes, w they're all combined as ten well fields and a consolidated permit. And groundwater is generally in the one dollar range. Yes. In the one dollar, uh there's change on there. I just in that that give you a realm. two dollars for surface water and four to five dollars for the D cell.
Mike Moore
Okay. So approximately one dollar per thousand gallons in the Pasco County Well fields.
Chuck Carden
Generally groundwater. I've I
Easier, let's say, than the other two sources.
Mike Moore
Okay.
Is there uh you're having to expand because always the growth in the region?
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Yes.
Mike Moore
Um Let's say for example it was only Pasco County pulling out of the Wellfields and Pasco County. Is there a whether is there enough water? to satisfy the need of the citizens of Pasco County and those well fields for the next thirty years. Fifty years.
Chuck Carden
If you didn't have the other five members taking in the water, uh that permit for the groundwater is uh ninety million gallons a day in in that area. There's a few well a couple of well fields in Hillsborough County, but yes, I was generally say Um You've got a lot of groundwater if you've had uh just Pasco alone with
Mike Moore
that the permit like that. Okay, I know I'm gone. Back in history a little bit, but so one dollar per thousand for the groundwater. the cost. If it ex if you expand, we're looking up to possibly over eight dollars per
Kathryn StarkeyChair
We're not doing that D Cell.
Mike Moore
D Cell is D Cell plant. Yeah.
Kathryn StarkeyChair
No, we're not doing that.
Mike Moore
Okay. Five times more expensive.
Um up to uh
If you don't mind going back a little further. Okay, there we go. Or the one for surface water treatment, yes, we know that. But your other options were Besides the D Sall. There was a groundwater
Chuck Carden
uh well field and southern Hillsburg County. So they but you stated that It's been removed for consideration because of the uh Credits we could not come to an agreement with Hillsburg County on the cost of the credits.
Mike Moore
Yeah. So because
of possibly others not wanting to play ball. the cost for Pasco County citizens, even though The majority of the water or all the water can be taken care of for Pasco County. citizens through our own well fields.
Kathryn StarkeyChair
Well
Mike Moore
we're possibly gonna pay more because other people don't want to get in the game.
Kathryn StarkeyChair
Commissioner Weightman. That Um some of those those well fields aren't owned by us. The only one owned by Pasco is is it Starkey? Um Crossbar and Albar is Pinellas County. Well
Mike Moore
I'm aware of that.
Kathryn StarkeyChair
That's a whole
Mike Moore
other story.
Kathryn StarkeyChair
That's a kind of a crazy thing when you can buy land in another county and take their water.
Chuck Carden
That was that was nineteen ninety eight, prior to nineteen ninety eight. All the the members had their own well fields. Uh they sold them all to Tampa Bay Water. So member government owns any
Mike Moore
of the well fields. Well and I and I know and and I know we don't. But I was using it as an example of this water is coming out of Pasco County, let's just be honest. Um
Kathryn StarkeyChair
can I add to that? We also the Hillsbow River, I say this at many Tampa Bay Water Board meetings. That's that's Pasco County. That's Pasco County water as well that Hillsboro City of Tampa takes out of the Hillsborough River.
Mike Moore
Are you pulling out of the barge or not the bar the uh bypass canal? Yes, sir. You are pulling out of the bypass canal. Okay, pretty regularly. I mean that it's a steady source of
Chuck Carden
water. It's m uh primarily during the wet season, and we have a reservoir down south that holds fifteen billion gallons. And so when it's raining, we have so much water we don't we can't use it all. We put it in the reservoir and that er or we take it out during the dry season when we can't pull it out of the bypass canal. And so we use the surface water all year, but we only use the bypass canal a portion of
Mike Moore
the year. So if another county, I'm not picking on any other county, so but if another county again doesn't want to um Get in the game. They're allowed to say no. What can we do? legislatively, if anything, or Mr. Steinsnyder um um le um legally to Force people's hands, if need be.
Jack MarianoVice Chair
Well,
First. Yeah, I like this, but first thing I gotta tell you is water is a state resource.
Mike Moore
I understand.
Jack MarianoVice Chair
So the water underlying Pasco County is not Pasco County's water.
Mike Moore
And I know that. I understand that fully. But I but we're we're hearing statements that Other counties don't want to participate. and allowing you s you stated earlier that I mean, right, that they said no. to a well field in the southern part of the county.
Chuck Carden
They said no to the credit. We could not
Mike Moore
put on the credit. They didn't say no to
Chuck Carden
the wealth
Mike Moore
or they received the but the credits. They didn't want to give up the credits.
Jack MarianoVice Chair
Correct.
Chuck Carden
Correct.
Jack MarianoVice Chair
Uh huh. So you have so It's a contractual relationship between the multiple counties. So you have rights under your contract that need that could be explored. I have not been personally involved in any of these conversations, but my guess having been in water for
Right. is that this is a combination of a regulatory issue with Swift MUD And a
proprietary issue, for lack of a better term, of the individual utilities that make up Tampa Bay Water. And so
I would imagine that some
exploration could be made. I mean the the reason that they can't permit the South H Hillsboro well field without the credits is because Swift Mutt doesn't like new groundwater wells, period. Um because of salt water intrusion. Okay.
It's that dynamic package of You have multiple uh Listen, in the in the seventies All these counties were at each other's throats. That's why West Coast Regional Water Supply was formed, which was the predecessor to Tampa Bay Water. Right. Um so it's
There's politics, there's law, there's a lot of things that have to go into
Mike Moore
Could so into
To maybe talk to legislators. um to get involved in this process now.
Kathryn StarkeyChair
So
Mike Moore
because we don't want our we don't want our ratepayers to have to pay more because people aren't willing to are wanting to give up credits to allow us to use that groundwater Which keeps will continue to keep the cost down versus having to make major, major investments in infrastructure and such to pull.
Kathryn StarkeyChair
So I think our y um Karbala wants to say something.
Mike Moore
Yeah.
Mike Carballa
It was just more of a a general statement. Mr. Steinsnyder is correct. It's it's complicated, right? Tampa Bay Water was created by legislative action, if I rec if I remember correctly. We are a party to a master water supply contract whereby all the member governments essentially give our rights, uh you'll you'll hear Chuck use the term um unequivocal obligation to provide water, which is true. That's actually been a bit of a boon for us in Pasco County since the water wars. Now we are post-water war 20 25
years later, of course. Right. Um but but having that is has has been important. And so uh it it's the answer is complicated. Know this that uh Tampa Bay Water and uh our staffs and all the other utility staff. We meet frequently, monthly, sometimes even more frequently. I spent probably I've had more conversations with Chuck in the past month probably uh than I have, because we look at these issues and we we look at them through the same lens that you do, making sure that we are trying to get the best
deal for our ratepayers. Right. Um whatever our options and alternatives are under the master water supply contract, that's that's what we will continue to explore. Um and I I think we need to for for regional cooperation. It's um but I understand where I understand what you're saying.
Mike Moore
Well we have an option now, but people are willing to give up the credits to make it happen. Maybe we need to take this to another.
Kathryn StarkeyChair
Well let me add something, and I don't know if Ralph wants to jump in on this, but last year there was legislation that is gonna um that requires um some of these um um governments to deal with their their um discharge. And and I think that um and maybe I'm gonna oversimplify this, like I said Uh Tampa Bay Water is a left side brain thing. I'm really more of a right side brain thing, so I I struggle a little bit, but so I'll I'll do it in my English, I
mean my my simplified manner. Um So we have a discussion coming. We've done a we've had this discussion a little bit this year. But member governments are making reclaimed water. is like a commodity. Right. And how that is dealt with in the future is the big question and that is why Hillsboro is reluctant, am I right, to give up their reclaimed water because they see it as a commodity um
and they are holding their maybe hands close to their vest but Do you want to answer that one?
Mike Carballa
No, I I completely agree with you, Commissioner. I think the the future in this state in the next five, ten, fifteen years, will be what are we going to do with reclaim water? And will that go to something we've said in the industry for 50 years is direct potable reuse? And that presents some interesting challenges in the context of the master water supply contract. So the engagements and policies of Tampa Bay Water for this region in the future in the next five years, I think are going to be of critical importance to have those discussions.
Mike Moore
Well that's what M Madam Chairman Exactly what you did. working with Swift Mud at a 4G r at a 4G, right? We that's what's literally what's going on there.
Mike Carballa
Yes, absolutely.
Pasco County, I I'm very proud of what we've done in Pasco County actually. You heard uh Mr. Mickel mention it before. We are we are recognized as the one of the the leaders in the district when it comes to reclaim water reuse. I would I would argue to say that Pasco County has offset new water supply for Tampa Bay Water at the cost of Pasco County and developers and and our and our ratepayers to actually offset. But we we we look at that as we we had reasons for doing that in the past, uh quite honestly. But Those those are benefits that are derived. And believe
me, those those will be discussed as part of a broader policy discussion in the future.
Mike Moore
Um a few months left, but uh
Maybe we'll work on a bell.
Kathryn StarkeyChair
Yeah, I wouldn't doubt that would be things in the works.
Chuck Carden
to this project. Tambay Water does not have any authority over reclaimed water. The member governments all retain that. in nineteen ninety-eight. So this is about reclaimed water credits. Um so the Hillsburg County is uh holding on to those in the long term is what we're talking about. So otherwise, you know, you say that they are not gonna give us the credits, it's uh it's the reclaim water that they own and they can do with, except for one exception, they cannot turn that into a potable drinking water according
to our our agreement, our interlocal agreement. They have to work through Tampa Bay water to do that. And we are looking at whether uh reclaim water, as Mike was saying and I think you were saying, Commissioner Starkey, the Senate Bill 64 where you're you're having to deal with some of your disposal Uh partnering with Tampa Bay Water on a future potable water project. And we will be uh including that in our next update of the l of the long term master water plan reclaim projects. We will be coming around to the members to see what
they would want to do with a reclaimed uh project working with us. They have the reclaimed water. And we're the drinking water provider. And we we will work together to to bring up uh future projects using reclaimed water.
Kathryn StarkeyChair
Yeah. Did you want to add something? Oh okay. All right. Um yeah, it's gonna be an uh An interesting year, but I I think it makes our selection for this year pretty easy, Chuck. I don't think there'll be any big drama when we pick our next next project.
Chuck Carden
No, I believe uh we heard that discussion yesterday, the surface water treatment plant. There was a lot of discussion being the next project. But that will take us through 2028 and then the next election we need water in 2033-2034. And that's where I believe reclaimed water may have a a bigger role in the the next election after that.
Kathryn StarkeyChair
Yeah. So and I'm really proud of Tampa Bay Water and and this region and the way we tackled the the water. Um I always point to it. when I'm at FAC meetings when they're talking about setting up new water boards in the state that I said just look at Tampa Bay Water and look at the example that we've set here. So I think I think it's really incredible the for the foresight of our um Uh people, Senator Lapval and others, Commissioner Hildebrand that went before us and We'll s we'll
solve it.
Chuck Carden
It is a successful regional solution to the problem that you all know about. Uh the the wetlands and the lakes are devastated, certain areas, especially in Pasco. Uh Certain members had well fields up here. They gave those up uh in order to recover and we reduced the groundwater pumping from 158 million gallons a day back in the day. to ninety million gallons a day.
Kathryn StarkeyChair
So just to just to be clear, they bought you bought the wellheads but you didn't buy the land.
Chuck Carden
Yes, around the each of the wells there is about two acres that we purchase. The rest of the land either generally belongs to the the district. So we own the the well fields ourselves. So there's no single member government still owns, you know, I hear Penellison Crossbar, that used to be their well field. They don't own that. Tampay Well
Kathryn StarkeyChair
does. Well, they own
Chuck Carden
that they own the
Kathryn StarkeyChair
Penelis. Well Noah's County owns Crossbar. They don't own the wellheads in Crossbar.
Chuck Carden
Correct.
Kathryn StarkeyChair
Because we have a lawsuit with them.
Chuck Carden
So we're aware.
Mike Carballa
Well and the permit is in Tampa Bay Waters name.
Chuck Carden
Permit is in Tampa Bay Waters name. And so, you know, I know there's a uh some notion, some of the members think If things go you know a different direction, they want to go back to the old day, um they would take their old well fields back. That's not how it w would do. Um you you now uh if that happened in Tambay Water was dissolved There's six members that have a stake in each of the the wells by the how much water they took. And that is another, you know, when you're paying the the the unitary rate
The members only paying the portion of water that they take. So a growing area is going to be taking a higher getting a higher cost than an area that is not growing so much. Uh it was well thought out by the the originators of the the contract on how it works and growth going forward.
Kathryn StarkeyChair
All right, thank you so much. Um and we'll see you up here again maybe next year or or the year after. We should come back to the comments. I'm trying to do it
Chuck Carden
every twice a year. Excellent. It might be late in the fall.
Kathryn StarkeyChair
Okay.
Chuck Carden
So thank you very much.

BCCA-22-0107

Official title

Every appearance1 of 1 are in a recording