BCCA-22-0109

Every appearance1 of 1 are in a recording

TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 100% of 62 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.

1. 1Jun 7, 2022
   Board of County CommissionersR77Regular businessNo disposition in the minutes

   Open this item →▶ Play from 29:54
   ▶ 29:5417m

   StarkeyChair

   29:54Okay. So then um we have sorry I'm looking for R77.

   30:15So who is speaking?

   County Administrator

   30:16Commissioner Oakley Commissioner Mariano asked us to put on. It's a notice of termination of the interlocal wholesale water wastewater agreement by Hernando County.

   MarianoVice Chair

   30:25Madam Clerk to bring it up um at the time Um let's say the last meeting we We're looking at County Land We're getting possibly funded direct from the legislature. That didn't happen as it got vetoed in the midst of that happening. Hernando County put an agreement together with us a few years ago, but they had also a right to end that agreement anytime to supply water. The thought was we don't have water up along County Line Road. And we could use their capacity. In

   30:56the last several years they've had a lot of development going on up there. They pretty much need their capacity, so they've ended their agreement with us to say it's going to end in two years. From what I understand, we haven't done anything to hook up yet, but there's other developments pushing to go up north. The reason I pulled the agenda and was I want to make sure everyone saw it, understood what it meant. And as you've heard me say for past several years in the past several meetings, even I think we had this conversation. uh a sugar line up there along County Line Road.

   31:26Uh County's gonna get built at some point in time. I think it's part of our capital plan that needs to come forward. I'm not pushing for residential growth out there, but there's a lot of commercial growth we can capitalize on. Uh and I think it's something that's gonna be important that we take effect of that. Um I would like to see a plan coming forward from staff to say, okay, what are we going to do up there and when? Uh in the midst of Yeah, administrator leaving, other things going on. Uh it's gonna be difficult to get a report right away, but I think we should start that discussion and if the

   31:56board agrees that we should have a discussion on that program then Let's let's make a move.

   StarkeyChair

   32:03Yeah, so um Mr. Carbala, could you come up and discuss the discussion we had this morning? And I've also talked to the

   County Administrator

   32:09to the Commissioner's point. We the the utility is not in the business of extending utility lines for developers or development. I mean we so you know we would work with a developer to upsize the line, but not necessarily we generally don't fund that a hundred percent.

   StarkeyChair

   32:24You know, um it's S sometimes I think I wonder w why we do things the way we do, um, because We build roads and then we tear them up to put the utilities in. And it it doesn't make sense to me. I know you've explained it to me that you may not know the size of the pipe. But we know development is coming and And it may not only be residential, I mean there's other kinds of economic development, activity and Why we do I just need one day to understand

   32:54why we have to do it that way and there aren't other options. And I'd love for us to talk about other options and then have the developers pay us for the work that we did. But when we build the roads or we widen a road, why can't we put it in when we're doing that? That's me postulizing up here.

   Mike Carballa

   33:10Mike Carballo, Assistant County Administrator for Public Infrastructure. To that to that point, um that that speculative growth on the utility side, it it bears a maintenance cost and a cost that would be borne by the ratepayers under our current structure. There could be ways that you address that in in very discrete circumstances. I think we've we've kind of done that in some areas of the county. But as a general rule, it it financially it does uh it it it It the additional costs are borne by the ratepayers ultimately. And then all the additional maintenance cost that comes with underutilized

   33:40pipes and those types of things does does create a burden on the utility because the growth comes later. I understand the frustration, and we do try to plan. Believe me, when we plan roads to be widened and to and to be expanded, those plans are done well in advance, and our engineers do plan in accordance with those plans to make sure that. Those utility lines are adequately you know sized and put in the right place. As far as the County Line Road Agreement, yes, we negotiated that agreement about five or six years ago. Um It started out as is our request

   34:10was actually to have water and sewer service. Fernando County balked at the water portion of it. Just because they're they're under a different an under a different structure than we are with Tampa Bay Water and having regional supply. So ultimately we settled on sewer working both ways. Of course, the county does not have sewer facilities up in that area. We received our first application maybe a couple of months ago for a commercial development on on Hernando County.

   34:40Followed everything that we were supposed to follow with with regards to that agreement to receive bulk sewer service. And so just to be clear, the agreement is we would uh establish bulk interconnects with uh Hernando County. Our customers would still pay our rates normally, and then we would we would work, we have a bulk agreement worked out with Hernando County that that covers basically our bulk rates, for example, would cover all the costs of providing service as well as Uh oftentimes the the cost of the impact fee, so paying for the capacity. And the agreement speaks speaks to that. It's

   35:11unfortunate that that the agreement is pulled because it will stifle development on Pasco County side of the county line. And I have had our engineers provide some preliminary looks at what it would take to provide sewer service. Bear in mind we have the treatment capacity at our Shady Hills wastewater treatment plant, which is a few miles to the south of This area. What we lack is the collection infrastructure, which would require a master pump station as well as a force main. You know, and and you know, to Dan's earlier point, speculatively putting sewer lines in under our

   35:41current financial structure doesn't make a lot of sense, but collaboration with the development community, which we do quite frequently, uh, to look at oversize agreements and things like that where they make sense. We we certainly participate. in in those types of activities. So with that, I I'd I'll just answer any other questions that we might have.

   StarkeyChair

   35:57I have a question, Paul. So I got

   MarianoVice Chair

   36:00so I have an idea as well. You know, when Commissioner Oakley, you were talking about State Road 52, how we need to go maybe that make that road work, that'll kind of be an alternative traffic reliever for the rest of the county. And later on today we've got this great project coming in with four million square feet of commercial coming in. Uh Total total of five total with a hotel. And that's driven because you put the infrastructure in place. Right. Right? That happening has just led to so many other things happening. County

   36:30Line Road is a is a very opportune Uh area that could develop very well for us if we start planning now for it. That agreement we had was we had some developments coming in that might have been coming, uh they got held up or whatever so it never came through, but it was designed to help develop an RN coming. What I don't want to see is us to turn kind of like Hillsboro did was they kept everything rural on this on their northern border. And what happened? It's a mess down there and we're sharing the burden on it. Now right now Condline

   37:01Road It's a very heavily trafficked area. Uh it's got an opportunity with a lot of residential and commercial development above it that's going on right now. We can capitalize down below if we put the infrastructure in place. Things will happen if they commit. We can work on reimbursement. Now if we have to, I think we got the penny for Pasco coming up. This should be an infrastructure project. Maybe it's not a road, but it could should be considered infrastructure. No different than we did in help help out with Zephyrhills putting in $2.3

   37:31million for their water sewer line to get industrial development, the same thing should go here. I mean we saw the the graphs. When you bring industrial development in, the jobs it creates is phenomenal. And if we were gonna work on as well on over on Denton Avenue with that industrial park 160 acres wants to commit And that's gonna infrastructure as well. Maybe we go look at funding it that way so the ratepayers don't share the burden and long term we can get our investment back and do what we want to do is create jobs for this county.

   Oakley

   38:01Madam Clerk. In that area also on 41, I think there's an industrial park gonna come in in that area also. So we've got to be looking at that area, and that's before you get to County Line. But I think we need to be looking at projects that we can entice to come in that area to help us work out the financing and be able to put that infrastructure in there and provide for that whole area around County Line. So We uh I know it's needed and and it looks very rural out if you drive out there now there's a lot of traffic but

   38:32it's pretty rural in that particular area right in there. So

   StarkeyChair

   38:35Well just like what Commissioner Mariano said uh you know we're We're our entry level homes are are very expensive and Hernando is starting to go. And so there is gonna be development pressure on that road. So yeah uh I don't you know, I'm sure you can bring some ideas back to the board on how we can

   Mike Carballa

   38:58We can we can certainly kind of look at a holistic concept master plan if if that's something the board is interested in seeing.

   StarkeyChair

   39:04So how how would it work if uh I understand we have a culverse coming in up there and I don't know what else is in uh We I I

   Mike Carballa

   39:10don't know if they're going to continue or not. We we basically rejected their application when Hernando canceled the agreement.

   StarkeyChair

   39:15Well and so they're not going to be able to do that.

   Mike Carballa

   39:23Several miles away, Commissioner, to the to the south. Uh it's um I can't pinpoint the exact intersection, but I can tell you it would probably run anywhere from uh eight to ten, ten to fifteen million dollars in terms of capital costs to to really make make that work. So if

   Oakley

   39:38we we gotta be looking at ways to be able to finance that to to make sure we work out in the right areas and provide that infrastructure so when uh we have somebody ready to come, they come and they pay the price for the For the pipes and all.

   StarkeyChair

   39:55Let me let me ask you, is it is it um prudent to make some kind of Area. uh designate an area and say if you're coming in for some kind of development you're part of this group and work kind of like how we built State Road fifty six. I know they were large landowners, but there was a group that came together and worked together to help build um s some of that infrastructure there.

   Oakley

   40:19Well they had they had some Bid Six they had some financing a group that came in and said they would finance to put to water and all in that that was not there and it's still not there on some certain parts. But the screw came in putting money out for credits and eventually it'll get it'll get put in all the way out on fifty six. So

   StarkeyChair

   40:40I mean how does one w w one person trying to build a culverse is not gonna have the bandwidth to come in and figure out how to get all the owners together to put in infrastructure. So we have to help put together some kind of district or something that will facilitate All of us working together in the area.

   41:01That's my thought.

   Mike Carballa

   41:02Okay. Yeah.

   MarianoVice Chair

   41:04We'll we'll have to give that some thought.

   Joseph Hart

   41:07Okay.

   MarianoVice Chair

   41:07So Madam Chair, so as well as looking at that and bringing that item up, I'd like to uh as you as well as taking a look to that, let's and and we're already in conversation, but that Hudson Hicks Road New York Avenue site for industrial part two, let's go take a look at that. put a whole plan together and give us some numbers and then I think the board can take a look. If we want to make that an infrastructure project, we can go do so and then maybe that that helps facilitate the financing or the extra participation from others coming in because There's at least three or four developments

   41:37that want to come in up there that can't because we don't have the sewer connection. Right. So just saying we're gonna make the commitment to go through it and it's gonna take a couple of years to get it done may stimulate the rest of it to happen and the participation we don't economically to make it happen, but we've got to put the plan in place to what it's gonna be. Right. I understand.

   StarkeyChair

   41:55Um I want to stay on this did you want to say something

   Moore

   41:58I I need to ask a question. So are you Suggesting to use the economic development portion of the penny. Because you don't have a utilities portion of the penny currently. And you don't you're not proposing the the current ballot language would not add utilities to So could

   MarianoVice Chair

   42:21we take the transportation component and add utilities to it.

   Moore

   42:27In the new penny the new penny, the new penny, not the old penny, the new penny. You could change the ballot language, but then that changes the way you've structured I mean you're it's pretty late to change the ballot language since it's about to go to the supervisor, but you could. Um but all of the

   County Administrator

   42:47So that's an agenda item on the twenty-first board meeting. Right. The the challenge there is the transportation piece you're trying to fund is also underfunded. So the things you're trying to do with the transportation doesn't have another funding source for this. You could have to do that.

   MarianoVice Chair

   43:06We're

   County Administrator

   43:06we're setting up mediums for each of y'all to walk you through all that.

   MarianoVice Chair

   43:08I understand, but you just said it's coming up on the twenty first as well and we haven't seen it yet. Furnishing. So when are we gonna w how quick are we gonna see this and can we add a little bit of language in there where utilities can be included? Something general even, but just something again.

   StarkeyChair

   43:22Well how much is that gonna take up a bit?

   MarianoVice Chair

   43:24I I don't know, but I I wanna create the opportunity either way. Whether and and I don't care even if it's economic development we use part of it. though that'll be a s another conversation. But somewhere to try to find a way to put it in there. So we have the opportunity to bring in utilities one way or that, whether it be transportation or economic development. But if there's

   StarkeyChair

   43:42some kind of thing,

   County Administrator

   43:44Commissioner Starkey had a a good idea with the district or what we've done other places where we've done surcharges, like in V OPH there are surcharges on impact fee to help pay for the the services that we're bringing to V OPH. If we're gonna we don't extend utilities for development, we don't. That's that's an enterprise and a board policy decision. The ratepayer does not pay to extend utilities. The impact fee is really collected to expand plant and transportation and capacity in the existing system. And so you need another funding stream and

   44:14what we've done in the past with other sources is done surcharges, whether it's on transportation or parks like we've done at D O P H and so that's one way you could fund it is through a surcharge. The problem there is you're building it without the users, which is then ends up being a rate payer cost that they will be paying to maintain it without a user base. So you've got to build those in conjunction with a project that will use it so that you're not increasing your maintenance.

   StarkeyChair

   44:38And I I lived in a neighborhood um called Riviera where Sean Foster lives now, where there were only three or four houses in there. Um It was built during the right when the recession happened. And Uh it was then serviced by Aloha and they had to come in and turn on the fire hydrants and literally flood my streets to keep black rocks from coming out of my faucet to keep s you know, servicing the line. So I I get what you're saying about

   Mike Carballa

   45:05Correct, and we have areas like that still. I've

   StarkeyChair

   45:07had that experience. Yeah. Um

   Fitzpatrick

   45:10Commissioner Fitzpatrick. Thank you, Madam Chair. So if we could fund the infrastructure upfront, then when we charge the developers or when we charge the impact fee, that should be able to reimburse and recoup the fund.

   Mike Carballa

   45:24I think that's what Dan's referring to as the surcharge would you know the surcharge model could could help reimburse from that, but there's still an upfront capital cost that has to be managed. And there will still be maintenance costs with no source of revenue attached to them until the development comes. But

   County Administrator

   45:38your your current impact fee does not pay to extend utilities. It pays for capacity on the wastewater treatment plants, the water capacity on the on the water side, and then the main trans transmission mains, the big mains to extend.

   StarkeyChair

   45:53I think there's other ways we can figure this out.

   45:57And I think a district with some e economic incentives, I think we can work this out. David Engel, I know, has a brilliant mind that can help. Put some put some uh legs to this so pressure on it. We c we can figure it out. Um we're not the first ones to have this problem, so I'm confident we can figure something out. But I don't want to be turning away um people who wanna have businesses because we can't provide. Yeah.

   Oakley

   46:22Let's let staff go back and see how they can work out financing for this type of um infrastructure that we need. And we don't seem to find it right here now. But maybe there's a way we can through a surcharge or some other way that will provide that and actually help the county at the same time. So if you'll you'll bring something like that back to us. Yes, sir.