CD-25-0186

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TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 76% of 136 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.

1. 1Sep 3, 2025
   Board of County CommissionersR41Regular businessNo disposition in the minutes

   Open this item →▶ Play from 51:36
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   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   51:36Sherry. What is it? R We're gonna we're gonna do the consent agenda later. Because we are late on our time certain. R forty one. Okay? R forty one.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   51:54Good morning Commissioners. Mary Theory Young, Interim Director of Community Development. As of some questions that came up regarding the Housing Authorities voucher program, we have David Lambert and Jeff Skelette here with a presentation regarding their program and to answer any questions that you may have.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   52:10Wonderful. Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   52:17Uh good morning commissioners. Uh we want to first thank you for giving us the opportunity to speak to you this morning. Um we also want to thank Mary for all her help uh in community development getting things done along with uh Kathy Pearson and the rest of the Pasco leadership team to help kind of put this together in a more concise form for you guys. Um So let's see here clickers I haven't used in a while

   52:45I'm going the wrong way. There we go. So first briefly, what is the Housing Choice Vacher Program? It's a federally funded federal program managed by HUD and administered by the local housing authority, which is us and other housing authorities across the country. It's often referred to as Section 8, and it's intended to bridge the gap between what the household can afford and what the actual cost of rent is. The participanting households usually spend roughly 30% of their income

   53:15on rent and the voucher will cover the rest of it. and uh a code of federal regularations. Uh Title 24 governs the housing and urban development part. And so everything is 24 CFR, whatever, and that all is related to HUD.

   53:35So uh on the wait list We have to advertise when we're gonna do it. And so we put that in the Tampa Bay Times and uh there's a sample of what we ran the last May. Along with this, we also send out notifications to the Continuum of Care of Pasco County, which is Catholic Charity, St. Vincent de Paul, Homeless Coalition, One Community Now, all the other nonprofits throughout the county that we work with so that they can let their participants know that the wait list will

   54:06be open and they can apply. Um

   54:11And the next slide is just basically an overview of kind of how the waitlist process happens. Right. We we make an announcement uh with the advert advertisement, uh, tell people where they can apply. It's all done online now, and they would go to the website, put in all their information. And then when everyone's the wait list, the opportunity to apply is closed, we do a lottery to draw down a sufficient number to keep us working for about 18 to 24 months. Uh which seems to be right around a thousand

   54:42names. And then once you're on the wait list, we would apply any preferences that we have in our administrative plan, one of them being a local preference, and if you live in Pasco County, you would go to the top of the list.

   54:58And here is just uh some verbiage from the CFRs uh on the residency requirements. Um so we are prohibited for having a residency requirement, so anybody in the country can apply. And then but we do have a preference once you're on the wait list.

   55:18And the next the next page is pretty much our preferences. They're in our administrative plan and I highlighted the part where we have a preference if you live within Pasco County, you work within Pasco County, uh then you will go to the top of the list to get a voucher. Um and also highlighted one importantly, it's not based on how long you've lived in the in the county. So you could have moved here yesterday and if you're on the list and you would get something. Yeah.

   Pasco County

   55:44Hmm.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   55:46And so that's kind of basically all it is. Um we have the next steps. What would you how can you guys help us is you can I guess lobby Congress, talk to them, and get rid of the residency requirement where we can do it. Right now it's prohibited and we can't.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   56:05So Thank you all for your time. Uh today I'm the board chair of the Pasco County Housing Authority. Have been for 15 years roughly when uh Um You know, the Pasco County Housing Authority was in receivership. So we've been through this question a few times before and our hands are tied and constrained as Mr. Skelette said. This is a federal rule and regulation that we have to follow and abide by. Uh just as uh the county attorney sits

   56:35in every board meeting, we have a housing authority attorney that guides the board on everything we do. Um HUD, we actually after the request that you made, we actually went to HUD and asked them to give us a ruling. Their ruling was The same that it's been for the last three times that we've asked them is you cannot violate that rule that you cannot put a uh restrict people from outside of Pasco County from getting on the waiting list. We will be more than happy to help help

   57:06the commission if they want to put the dollars in and trying to get that changed through Congress because it has to be changed through Congress. But we can't do anything about that. We follow the rules and regulations and HUD is a has a pretty steady hand on that. They have auditors that come in um twice a year. who audit us. We have independent auditors that we have to go by. and uh they make sure that we're following the program and the regulations to the letter of the law. But the Housing Authority is much more than a housing authority. It's

   57:36a community effort. Myself, John Fennerty. Dave Longspaw on the board. We've done so many great projects. We're fixing ready to close on the first phase of our veterans housing community, which is going to give 39 of our veterans and their families over off Massachusetts Avenue a home. Um Vincent House, Recovery Through Work. Uh Congressman Bill Aracus got four million dollars for that veterans project. Um The state got about uh

   58:07Put in about 700,000 and of course we had community development block grants as well. And Vincent House, Congressman Bill Arakus got us about $1.25 million to build housing for folks with mental illness. But more than that, we helped, when we tore down Dade Oaks here in Dade City, that land was given over to the city of Dade City for a very nominal fee to mitigate the flooding in Dade City. Now we have a beautiful community called Hilltop Landings that was rebuilt. And then in Lakouchee,

   58:37uh old dilapidated housing development is now the site of Southeast Culvert. who is gonna bring a hundred and twenty five good paying jobs to Pasco County. and they're almost complete. That was housing authority land and to get rid of that dilapidated housing um we donated that property to your radco and your radco cleaned up all the environmental concerns and now we're gonna have a big manufacturing plant out there that's gonna bring great jobs. to the county. We also partner

   59:07with Youth and Family Alternatives to provide Section 8 vouchers for their projects so we can help children aging out of foster care so they don't become homeless and live on the streets. Just so many good things that we partnered with the county, with you all, to do. And it's wonderful. And I understand, I want you all to know I've lived in Pasco all but eight months of my life and I am a Pasco first guy. Uh um And we've just been restricted by the CFR. We can't make those changes to it. We follow the

   59:37law just like you have to. Um but we did put in the preference. So anybody that comes in uh and gets selected in the lottery and they're a Pasco County resident that qualifies automatically goes to the top of the list. So I want to thank you all for that and I'll take any questions.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   59:53So um David, um you and I have talked about this before. Yes, ma'am. Um when I saw the newspaper article and Gina, I s I sent you the T V article that I saw. Can you play that for just a second and Listen, I get I get that what we're talking about here is the federal side of things and and you guys do wonderful work here. Um but we we wanna talk about do about do we possibly want to um Work on changing tweaking the federal law.

   Lisa Yeager

   1:00:22Get the make it for summer seven then. Our story was each.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:00:31We just opened a housing choice voucher program and I'll provide financial assistance to those who are in need of a home. That

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   1:00:37says you have a basically spoke to one person who says she has already submitted her application.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:00:45April Woodall has lived here in Metro Ministries in Pasco County for eight months. Hopefully no. She and her son are looking for something more permanent.

   Pasco County

   1:00:55I place little things on, you know, to remind me of God and who could work.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:01:01She's hoping to receive a housing.

   1:01:06She just applied on her phone. I need

   Pasco County

   1:01:09the assistance. I'm an older mom with a younger son, so I need the assistance and I'm trying to find you know the job that really sets me in place. Anyone can apply. The

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:01:20Pasco County Housing Authority says you don't have to live in Pasco to apply. It is completely

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   1:01:25free. But if

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:01:26you make it to the waitlist. You have to move to the area for a year. We're anticipating about

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   1:01:313,500, 4,000 people to apply. We'll do a lottery of the people that applied and get it down to a thousand. And then that's almost our full of people on the wait list to get a voucher.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:01:41It's been almost two years since the voucher program opened. Many who receive background services from Metro Ministries understand the need for more services. The organization is working to meet the demand. Metro Ministries recently expanded residential housing. It doubled its capacity. Now they can serve up to 48 families, such as the two recent hurricanes that we've had of people losing their homes.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   1:02:04And then the financial need where rent is rising but income is staying where it's at, so you see a lot more need from the community as well in that aspect.

   Pasco County

   1:02:12I think we all said when because we're here for you know the assistance.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:02:17We all says she has faith that everything will work itself out in. In Pasco County. And is he a roots in?

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:02:27So I I think that the issue with us is um Well one I'm curious where w where you're required to advertise. Um but second We have such need in our own county. We don't need to import need. And I would think most counties would feel that way. Um I did talk to Neil Brookfield, who I guess is your counterpart in Penellas. I've known Neil for forever. Um And um I h you know, he told me his numbers on the phone but

   1:02:57I didn't write 'em down, so I've texted him again. Um and we have the numbers for Hillsborough County. I don't know if Katie's texted me those yet. Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:03:08So in Pinellas County, uh they're forty-three percent in their jurisdiction and fifty-seven per out of their jurisdiction.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:03:16So we do a much better job, Commissioner.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:03:18Yeah, so it it's it's I think this is a crazy federal rule. I don't know why counties federal

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   1:03:24money.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:03:25I don't but I don't know why counties aren't allowed to take care of their own people first before importing importing people with with That need that have more needs. I mean, I'm all about helping people. I vote up here all the time for you know, the low income housing programs. I sit on the advisory council. I I'm all for it. But I'm not for advertising to the world to come move here and take services away from the people who need it here first.

   1:03:56I uh any other thoughts?

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:04:00So c so Commissioner, I I I want to s I and I appreciate your all's comments and concerns and just want you to know that we have to follow the law. And while

   1:04:11Our hands are tied and as you can see with Pinellus The Pasco County Housing Authority does uh sixty percent of those residents where Penellas is forty-three. So we're trying to do everything we possibly can. We will be happy to advertise on any Pasco County community channel. uh when we have to do this required advertisement. Um we do Also do it we advertise on on all of the nonprofits that do housing in Pasco County's websites

   1:04:42and everything else. We want Pasco first. We put the preference in and we try to help every family. But you know when I I will tell you I asked this question that you just asked years ago, uh right here at the Dade City Business Center when the Region 4 Administrator of Hudson. And that's the same question the board said, Well we don't want to put Um uh you know, we don't want to open it up to everyone else and we want to try to help our community first. And the county said, or the the HUD uh folks

   1:05:12said, it's a federal program, you have to follow the CFR. But how we look at this program is like a school voucher. And if the school's failing We want people to be able to go and get the best education that they possibly can. If someone's in rural Kansas or in Chicago and they can come to Pasco and get a job and raise a family in a better community, the voucher has to be portable to allow them to do that. And that's why we open it

   1:05:43up around the country. That was the the the reasoning we got behind it. Um So that's that's a good thing. Twelve years ago. So it might have changed since then, but that's how it was.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:05:53So what um Neil sent me this waiting list preferences are criteria that public housing agencies use to prioritize applicants based on local needs and program goals. These preferences affect the order in which eligible applicants are selected from waiting lists. Legal framework and requirements. HUD regulations allow PHAs to adopt local preferences But they must be based on local housing needs and priorities such as those laid out in the PHA plan on the consolidated plan. Preference must

   1:06:23be adhered to Preferences must adhere to federal, nondiscrimination and civil rights laws. Common examples of preferences include residency within a certain jurisdiction, county or municipality only, Working families, persons with disabilities, veterans, victims of domestic violence, elderly individuals or displaced persons. I mean certainly Yeah, we wanna We want to help all those folks, but it

   1:06:54seems to me that we should be able to exhaust our list of local residents who have these issues first before we bring in someone from Chicago.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:07:06Commissioner, if they're selected in the lottery

   1:07:09That's even worse.

   1:07:10Well well we're required to do that. So we're required to do that. And if they're selected and if a Pasco resident, they get preference if they meet the guidelines. We don't there's no Pasco resident in that lottery. It's that's turned away if they meet the guidelines. Now you remember what

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:07:25you said a resident could be here for one day.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:07:28Yes, ma'am. But the resident can be here.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:07:30We need to work on this federally.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:07:32So it's a federal rule. We can't change that rule. We just follow the rules. And that's it. And HUD ensures that we follow the rules. They have no they send auditors in to make sure we're doing that.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:07:42I it's n I'm not saying y'all aren't following the federal rules. I'm saying the federal rules need adjustment. Commissioner Mariano.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:07:50David, what would you recommend we try if we wanted to go ch change the law to make sure we're b being able to take care of our local residents in a better way? Preference is good, but I mean, if if I if if I don't get drawn in the lottery, I'm sitting out of the waiting list, right?

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:08:07Yeah.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:08:08So in the would you do that lottery draw, are you gonna draw people from in the

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:08:11area and out of the area? Yeah, it's a lottery, right? So your number pops up it it comes in and then we vet the applications and to see if you f meet the qualifications. If we don't get enough applicants for the then you come on for the voucher so that we have then uh Pasco residents get them first. Please remember that. All of those folks uh domestic violence all of those folks here get them first. And then after that you know, they they go to other folks. So we

   1:08:42we that do not live in the county. But as you can see with the young woman in the interview, she has three I think three children and she's trying to get out of Metropolitan Ministries housing so and get a stable roof over her head so she can she can give a better life for her kids. We we want a better life for everybody. You know it's housing is tough business and I understand what you guys your concerns at. It's a federal rule and I don't know how you change it because congressional district spans many counties in some cases. It's

   1:09:12not just a small geographic area. And, you know, if somebody lives in Pasco and works and they've got elderly parents in citrus and they need them closer and if they can get a voucher, if they don't if they're living off of social security and meet the requirements, that family that lives in Pasco is going to probably put in for those folks uh to get a voucher here. Um I don't know how you change that. The vouchers are designed by the federal government to be portable so it doesn't keep a family in in one part of the country when they can go

   1:09:42where where you can get a job someplace else or something.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:09:50vouchers do we have? I don't put out south county on a lot. But how many people have taken their vouchers from Pasco, moved here for one day, gotten one of our vouchers and then moved to another state?

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:10:02They have to be here a year, Commissioner

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:10:03Oakley. One year. How many do we have?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:10:06Um, I would say we probably have roughly about thirty, thirty-five.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:10:11That have come here, stayed here for one year and then moved somewhere else. Yes. And take one of our vouchers and take it to another place.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:10:18That's and that's a very minute number when you consider someone going to some other place. People want to come here, they want to stay here, and they want to raise their family here. And hopefully we can get them in our family self-sufficiency program, which we have a very robust family self-sufficiency program, to get their first home that they can own or get them in college and get them off public assistance. We've been very, very successful with. Ban? And we try everything. Uh you know, we we look at the housing authority as a door in, but

   1:10:48not a lifetime door unless you're a senior or somebody that's disabled that can't go any place else. We don't want the young woman that was up there with her family to live in on a section eight voucher the rest of her life. We want to show that you can you don't need public assistance. You can get a good job. Transitional. Transitional. So we try and and if uh You know, and we get folks that do get off of public assistance and they go to some place else and go into a

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:11:14habitat home if they work and save up some money.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:11:17Habitat's one of our partners, yes, ma'am.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:11:19So w um since you since you're very familiar with this, David D what do you think of the concept that we're paying? the difference in rent value when they move somewhere else.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:11:31So Pasco County doesn't pay for anything, it's a federal money. The money comes from HUD down to us and we do the payments. The county has there's no impact not the county.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:11:40The money that we have for our Pasco Housing Authority, you have a certain budget, right? And then if thirty of these folks have come here and if thirty of our vouchers have poured it out to another County. and their rent is higher than ours. Y Pasco Housing Authority pays that Delta. Do I have that right?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:12:01Well no with the HUD would right. So it there's all payment standards for different geographic areas.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:12:06Right.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:12:07And if they

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:12:07move to a more expensive one, you're picking it up.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:12:10Right. So but when we report monthly the higher part of rent, then the HUD would adjust their funding accordingly to to match that.

   1:12:19Right.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:12:19Why doesn't it just go to the housing authority where they moved to?

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:12:23Uh com Commissioner Oak

   1:12:28Because we get a management fee for that and it keeps that money right here. But more importantly, when most people come in to Pasco County, they're not coming into cheaper rent. I do want to say that for the record. We we had to increase our payment standard by 20%, 120% of the rate just to keep our families in housing. HUD just drew that back because of the federal budget budget cuts. And uh so we can't do that. So when somebody comes in and the other housing authorities they're actually paying that the difference. Pasco

   1:12:58County

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:12:59So we're being a recipient more than

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:13:02I would probably say so. I'm not gonna one hundred percent say that, but what Pasco if they're moving in from rural Kansas at eight hundred dollars a month and they come here to Pasco County Uh at fifteen hundred dollars a month, that has to be made up. And that other housing authority has to do that. So we have more people coming in that have to pay that extra money. And then what the housing authority did because we couldn't keep our land our tenants, our uh recipients were getting kicked out of home after home after home because the landlords were taking

   1:13:32their properties and selling them, right? And then so we increased it to a hundred and twenty percent of what the market rate rent based on HUD says. And then with that we still couldn't We still couldn't compete with what the private market was doing. That's leveling out a little bit. But that was hard. I mean that you w I cannot tell you how many times that we would get the Sheriff's Department saying, Hey, we got to evict this person because and they'd have a Section 8 voucher. They and they couldn't find another place in Pasco County. to

   1:14:02live. So that's why the voucher is portable, for them to go some place else where they can get housing and a roof over their head. But Pasco is not the cheapest place To be quite honest to live.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:14:13And and um just for I don't know how much my board members know about these vouchers, but the rules are there it's very stringent when you get these. I mean, you're not allowed to degrade your neighborhood and you can't have your boyfriend and whatever move in. I mean there's there's very strict rules on on around these vouchers, which I appreciate because, you know, back in the day there used to be very bad connotation. Um

   1:14:42I I you know we're gonna be talking about this at fact next week. Um I just

   1:14:50I would just want to tweak it so that the local people the uh I mean I really need to hear from you guys if the locals should get preference first before you start opening it up. I know at one of our AHAC meetings uh affordable housing advisory council meeting a couple years ago. We had a gentleman there who was from a worked in this in another state and he said there are companies Who people hire. to search the country for

   1:15:20who has the shortest waiting list. And they they just put them on all these waiting lists. Um So And that sometimes and I don't know if we have this here, but sometimes people sublease these um for the year. I don't I don't I'm not saying they do here.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:15:40So Commissioner Oakley.

   1:15:45But those folks go to jail. The United States Department of Agriculture and the United States Department of Halogen and Urgent Development, they have officers of Inspector General and they will prosecute you and then you're banned for life. And those folks go to jail.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:15:58But

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:15:58they

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:15:59they they put someone in for the year and then they do the portability thing. So this is how it was explained to us at the AHAC when I first was learning more about this.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:16:08So I I just want to address we do in person interviews. Um Yeah,

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:16:13because some some I know during COVID they were doing them online and so they didn't even have to prove that they lived here, right? Um, but you require them to come here and have an in person interview. Yes. Um, but you know, it's meaningless if if a if a if a resident only has to be there for one day, what kind of rule is that for local preference? It's that needs to be tweaked as well.

   Pasco County

   1:16:36One year.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:16:37Yeah, they should have to have lived here. At least one year before. No. No, no, no, one day.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:16:44They can't leave within one year? They only have to be in Pasco County to meet the low the local preference one day. That's the law and we can't change that. So

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:16:55Madam Madam Chair.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:16:56Yeah.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:16:56So I think we're gonna change it. I don't I don't think fact's probably the venue to I think.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:17:00No, it's gonna be NACO.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:17:01Yeah, I think

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:17:01But fact's gonna work on a resolution.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:17:04Okay.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:17:04Um and we're gonna bring it to NACO. Okay. Um we talked about it once, but we haven't gone as far as suggesting language. Um but you know Mm checking out what you guys think. Um to have support to bring this Okay, I need

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:17:22yes? Yeah, it's a big it's a

   1:17:23big

   1:17:23lift though. So I mean it's not as it's You know, w we try to do um different things with Nakeline. It's when you have a a isolated group that just wants to get something done is one thing. If there's broad support everywhere everywhere then maybe it's something. That's why

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:17:38we start with FAC.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:17:40Okay. Uh so fact then you got Florida coming in, but You're gonna need to go to one of the NACO groups and just come to the S. It's

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:17:46my my committee.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:17:46Okay. C E

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:17:47W D, Community Economic Development Workforce. We deal with Hud.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:17:51Yeah. I mean if you gotta get the majority of the nation to go to go to go with it, I think that's I think NACO's gonna be your number one um To to make it fly.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:18:02Yeah, and David, I might get you on a national call with my committee with commissioners from all over the country. Because you know, um in Pinellas County there's a county commissioner sitting on the Pinellas Housing Authority. I think it's Commissioner Flowers, I'm not sure. Um we we don't have anything to do with you guys except, you know, proving things here and there. Um So it's not something that the commissioners are real up on, you know, how how you guys work. Um, but we're glad you're here. You're doing

   1:18:32great work. I know this is a federal thing. I do question Um where you have to advertise, if we could work on keeping that small and quiet, um that might be better than being on the general.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:18:47Yeah, so there's there's in one of the handouts is a regulation of where we have to when you don't have any handouts. The must give public notice by publication in a local newspaper of general circulation and also by more uh minority media and other suitable means. The notice must comply with HUD Fair Housing requirements. We'll

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:19:05help you with that.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:19:06Well I mean okay. And we look forward to it, yeah.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:19:12Um any other uh questions for these guys? All right, thanks so much. And uh we're looking forward to that veterans uh program opening. I pass it almost every day and it's looking great.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:19:22December. December.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:19:23If you need trees Please contact us. We will supply the money for trees. Not the landscaping but the trees. Thank you

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:19:30very