FAC-24-0187

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1. 1Jul 9, 2024
   Board of County CommissionersC20Consent agendaApproved

   Approved minutes

   Approved the item per Staff’s recommendation including the conditions that they purchase the land at the agreed price, to maximize the Opioid funding, what ever they set up they are looking to keep a facility that is going to stay there and look to grow it and let the Board be given a presentation later on before any next step taken to what we think is best to do, and that everyone follow the proc

   Open this item →▶ Play from 1:29:53
   ▶ 1:29:5344m1/2

   OakleyChair

   1:29:53Move to approve. Second. Got a motion and second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Motion passed 5-0. Now we'll move to C20.

   Mariano

   1:30:04Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir. Uh the reason I pulled it is I I wanted to just discuss into it. Uh let me just make a few comments. Uh as Mr. Smithwick said earlier today, this is going to help us with our first responders, hospitals, jails, a lot of money we spend if we can work better on the on the homeless situation and help these people that are hooked on drugs to get out. Um it is a a decent a good piece of property as far. location it's got a bus stop there. Um As Pastor Jen mentioned though, there is a concern

   1:30:34what's going to happen down the road, which we can address uh as she serves in the contemporary care. What's going to happen, who's going to do it, is an issue. The biggest issue I have with this is the way the contract's written, the way it's set up. The appraised value was $790,000. The land is worth 240,000. We have not done a thorough inspection on the building to find out if there's any value to it, uh what the issues are with it. Um And that building is

   1:31:04valued at $550,000. If that building is worth zero. And we gotta raise it. We've now paid Almost $400,000 an acre for the property. Now, I understand the location's critical to to get one of these f facilities in place. However to pay that much more for a land value. is is something that I'm not comfortable with and I thought was worthy of discussion for the board.

   Weightman

   1:31:34Chair. Mr Wayland. Thank you, Chair. Yeah, thank you, Commissioner Oakley, for bringing up

   1:31:43I hear similar concerns. Didn't wasn't aware of the building inspection portion of it I assume that that level of due diligence would have been done before making a real estate transaction with public funds of this size. Um But my concerns were a little bit different. It was you know, we've taught spent a lot of time talking about the Times building on nineteen, which I think is probably a more suitable location in the long run. Yeah I I'm just concerned if

   1:32:13we're not going to be able to do We support this location today. I've talked to Carvalho about this. And then the times opportunity comes to fruition, then we have two locations. I would want to have on the record that if the Times building does happen to come to fruition that then we can surplus this property and not be so heavily invested in it. Uh but I do recognize on top of that Commissioner Mariano's points

   1:32:43and knowing that I'm not overly comfortable Um

   1:32:50necessarily supporting this today until we have those answers.

   OakleyChair

   1:32:55Ms. Starkey?

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:33:00I I agree that the Times location is the ul is the is a really good location for us. We and when when that becomes available we need to be there ready to bid on it. Um but in the meantime we don't have anything. So that's why I was in support of this as a temporary location until we are able to secure that property. Because as you know things are coming down at state level and we We We need to do something.

   1:33:30Can you show that picture I emailed you? Or sent you. Um you know this is what's going on when I drive through my house in Gulf Harbor's every day. Um We have this guy uh a couple people living at the bus shelter in front of is that Walgreens? I think it's the Walgreens. Um but they've been living here for for at least a couple weeks. Um so I don't someone was supposed to be going out there yesterday. So we we need to do something and But

   1:34:01I do have a concern on that building and so Kathy I hadn't really thought about that Um if you could address this for us.

   OakleyChair

   1:34:08Kathy coming forward.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:34:09Um And

   1:34:13Yeah, I mean if the building is a knockdown then the it should be reflected in the purchase price of the property because I think we are hoping that we can use that building for some wraparound services while while they are temporarily while we temporarily have a Um what are we calling this?

   Kathy Pearson

   1:34:32Uh

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:34:33emergency shelter? Emergency shelter, yeah.

   Kathy Pearson

   1:34:36So Kathy Pearson, Assistant County Ministrar for Public Services, have Andrew come up in a little bit here and address there was a building inspection done, so we do have the inspection. And we will you know Andrew will share some of that with you. But what I wanted to concentrate on is as you all know, for the last two years, we have been really team, the public, all of us have been trying and figure out what we're going to do with our homeless. As we all have identified, there is no low barrier shelter,

   1:35:06emergency shelter in Pasco County. And with the size of our county that's quite surprising. So the team has been myself, we've been out to the camps, we've been boots and grounds to the camps, we see what's going on out there. We have been looking at numerous properties. And I know you all mentioned the Times building. That would have been the ideal situation, but that building is not for sale. And I'm not sure when it will become for sale. So a year and a half has gone by that we have Work

   1:35:36with them. And homeless is getting more issues. We're hearing more from our citizens. So we have gone and looked at numerous locations. We looked at all of the hotels on nineteen. They were asking four or five million. We looked at the Vista Inn. We looked at um uh Hotel Eight, Motel Eight, we looked at old apartments, we looked at everything and the prices were just out of hand. This location came along and we felt it was an imperfect location.

   1:36:07We also looked at the church on Darlington, which sits on about seven acres. Really good price, but smack in the middle of a residential. I mean smack in the middle of residential. This property came, it was um The asking price was nine hundred thousand. We offered 600, we agreed on 775. As far as what's going to happen there, so the plan after if we do move forward with this is that we would definitely

   1:36:38not the county running it, we have no business running an emergency shelter. We were going to open up to an open house for all the not for profits to come and look at. We are preparing the RFP. We're writing the scope as we speak right now. We would put an RFP out just as we did with the family shelter on Youth Lane. Catholic Charities won that bid and is running has done a marvelous job over the years of running that family shelter. We would do the same with this. I heard that there's gonna be no

   1:37:08tents. There will be no tents. Our plan is to put Palette home. On that property. We think we can fit about 50 pallet homes. As far as that building goes, and I'll let Andrew talk about that. If the building is to be torn down, we can tear it down for very few dollars. There are palette homes that we can put in there. That building was going to be used as a central community for them to have their dining, to do their laundry, to do all sorts of services. I heard the speaker

   1:37:38say lately that where do they go for services? If you visit a lot of these homeless Shelters as we've done. We visited Pasco Hope, we visited uh Safe uh Safety Harbor, we visited um Tampa Hope. They provide services there. They partner with um mental health counseling. They partner with um substance abuse and mental health. They bring those services, career source, they bring those services in there. In fact, Tampa Hope has just had their big um grand

   1:38:08opening uh last week. Unfortunately I wasn't able to go on vacation. They've hired their own mental health counselors to provide services right there for them. This location has a bus stop right at the end of the driveway. So we feel like this is a a perfect opportunity. We have been kicking this can down the road for two years. And we cannot find the I don't think there'll ever be a perfect location, but it's a location to start with. And so we're

   1:38:39hoping that we can move forward with this and we'll keep you all in touch and I'm gonna bring Andrew up to talk about Go ahead.

   OakleyChair

   1:38:47I'd like to uh add to what Ms. Starkey was saying. I've I've been for this project because mainly we haven't been able to do anything that will help these folks and we need to help them. We need to do this. I know the price may not be exactly the way we'd like it to be. uh if it was a gift it'd even be better. But We know that's not reality. But reality of doing something now and and waiting for a perfect property somewhere else This is the best thing to do for the people

   1:39:16that are having these troubles and for us doing what we need to do for our citizens.

   Kathy Pearson

   1:39:21And I do want to remind the board that we are using community development dollars to purchase this property if we can get the closing done prior to july twenty ninth. Marcy has a deadline that she has to use this money for, and so that's why we're hoping we can get the closing done.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:39:38If so I I want everyone to hear this because I've seen it happen in other counties with some of this federal money. We don't use it, it goes back. many times. So um and this is federal money. This is not our local money. Um federal money that comes to us from HUD to do projects like this. And this is the first one that we've done in our county. Um Okay, so I'm interested to hear what what he has to say, but I think you're hearing from the board

   1:40:08that we want that Times property. I I I'm lo I don't want to bash it up here because I don't want to get an escalation of you know, a price escalation war with someone. Right. Um, but That is the location that is just So if you 'cause this is kinda

   Kathy Pearson

   1:40:28small. I have been in contact with the Times and right now it is not for sale. Right.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:40:33We know

   Kathy Pearson

   1:40:33it's not so when it does become and I told him that we were looking into this possibility of another location and I also spoke with him that we were still interested in the Times building. And he said when it does become available for sale, he will notify us immediately.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:40:50We will have uh just one more one more follow up on that. If we s when we s if we spend the money to purchase this uh with the federal money that would go away July twenty ninth if you don't have it and we're able to get the times with the next tranche of the federal money that comes down, we can surplus this, we can um offer this for transition housing a a a a lowing work housing project. We it we can control the destiny of that property. Yeah.

   1:41:21And I've been looking for property in my For other purposes for businesses you know my husband and my son who are real estate brokers There's not a lot of property out there anymore. So

   Kathy Pearson

   1:41:32I'll bring Andrew up. You can talk about the appraisal and all that.

   OakleyChair

   1:41:36First Andrew, if you will go over the um inspection of this property and tell us what you found. So

   Andrew Baxter

   1:41:42yes. So an inspection was done on the property. Um not only a full inspection of all of the mechanical, electrical, plumbing systems, roof, um, just like you would have in a normal uh residential type. Inspection. We did something similar here on the commercial side. Um, and as well as a four-point inspection, um, there were a significant number of issues that were noted in the structure. What I would like to do is back up though. So I uh at the

   1:42:12very beginning, the facilities management department is responsible for helping to facilitate the real estate payment. So any questions related to the operations of the facility, I'm gonna ask Ms. Pearson to respond to those. But from the real estate transaction portion, uh we were notified by community development that they wanted to pursue a a facility of this. We've been involved with the Times building all along as well. But again, the

   1:42:42desire was to do something Now. And so this property was identified along with many others. We looked at many, many properties. Kathy mentioned many of them: hotels, vacant land. We have really done quite a due diligent search. This property was listed at $900,000. And so When we did that, we we also we pulled our county real estate team. Pulled

   1:43:14comps via some tools that they have available to them. Now this is not an appraisal. This is an opinion of value based on comps that they're able to look at. And so those comps that they pulled ranged from 900,000 to two million dollars for similar properties. And in fact, the two million dollar property is the most like this particular property. It's in Newport Ritchie, uh 6333 Langston Avenue.

   1:43:44It was a former um clubhouse type facility for a community. Um so it it was uh seven thousand five hundred square feet of building and and facilities at two point one acres. And so what we're looking at here is we then negotiated, we helped uh facilitate negotiations down to seven um the seven uh seventy-five price that we're at right now and then we brought in an appraisal

   1:44:15and the appraisal is a snapshot in time to value the building to ensure that it is appropriate um for the sale price. So that sale price evaluation included the appraiser coming in at that time, looking at the condition of the facility as is. And so that is baked into their valuation of that property. Again, we don't, they're an independent appraiser, they they make that valuation.

   1:44:46And so that appraisal valuation came in at $790. and which is ex right in line with where we ultimately landed at 775 for the structure and the property. It's 2.18 acres. It's two parcels. The structure is 5,792 square feet. Again, it how it will be ultimately used, that really is an operational decision. The facility

   1:45:16is not in great repair. It would require some some significant um you know i if they decided to keep use. Using that facility would require some significant investment. Or you could tear it down probably in the $25,000 to $50,000 range and build something that would be more appropriate and current code standards as well. So there's plenty of opportunity. It's really just the location and making sure that we've provided the right steps along the way through the real estate

   1:45:46process to bring this before the board.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:45:49Well my my my challenge with and sorry. It's my district. My challenge with investing a lot of money in that building is if we want this to be a temporary site

   1:46:03Um It's a game. You know, how much do we want to put into that building? And So And is that is the Is the Um condition of that building reflected in that appraisal?

   Andrew Baxter

   1:46:19The condition of the building is reflected in the appraisal as is right now.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:46:24And um that building was an A L F, is that right? It

   1:46:29is

   1:46:29an A L I mean people are using it? People are living in

   Patricia Stro Ricky

   1:46:32it?

   Andrew Baxter

   1:46:34Let us see.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:46:35There's two. Okay, so interesting. Um

   Andrew Baxter

   1:46:41Part of the Part of the Sale Agreement says that it will be vacated of all the furniture and equipment prior to the the sale. Right. I'm sure.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:46:50I have one more question to follow up and then I'll yield the floor. Um would money for renovation come from the feds? Would that be C D B G? Where would the money come?

   Kathy Pearson

   1:47:04So we do have some money left over from the American Rescue, um approximately eight hundred thousand somewhere in that area that has been sitting, so that was the plan to use that. I do want to remind the board that you also put in the budget a one million dollar um one time, which we're hoping to use that to purchase some pallets, and you also put in three hundred About three hundred and ten thousand dollars on an annual basis for a not-for-profit to help with their operation costs.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:47:34But I thought some of that was going to for the times when the time came. So I don't want to be shooting ourselves in the foot to not get that problem. Okay. That's all.

   Mariano

   1:47:43All right. Ms. Brandon? Thank you. Um so let me get back to as far as the appraised value was seven hundred and ninety thousand. Right. Then the land was worth two hundred and forty thousand. So Andrew, let's talk about the building and the five hundred and fifty. You say the four point inspection was done. What things gonna be needed need to be done to that building? And what's the cost going to be?

   Andrew Baxter

   1:48:05So the four-point inspection is very basic because that that's really making sure that it has the right roof clips

   Mariano

   1:48:11and things

   Andrew Baxter

   1:48:11like that. The full inspection report uh noted things like the flat roof is damaged. Uh the exterior wall cladding, uh the stucco on the right side was damaged. The decks And balconies and uh stairways to the second floor were in disrepair. The tree limbs and bushes were in contact with roof siding that needed to be trimmed. The asphalt driveway

   1:48:42had cracks and needed repair. The

   1:48:48interior stairs and railing. railing especially uh has an extra wide um railing and it does not meet current code um so it was recommended that that be uh reconfigured in some way um there were several windows that were noted uh that were in disrepair uh let's see the plumbing The showers and baths uh in the upstairs were considered

   1:49:18not up to today's standards. Um there w they were in uh they were in working condition, but they definitely need to be renovated. Um hot water systems, fuses, the water heater is at end of life expectancy, uh it's at ten to twelve years.

   1:49:38And then in the the service electrical box. The panel is located in the laundry room and needs to be updated.

   Mariano

   1:49:47Wouldn't that fail the full point inspection?

   Andrew Baxter

   1:49:50It passed the four point inspection.

   Mariano

   1:49:52Even with those f even with the fuse box on that. So we're gonna spend a whole lot of money and you don't have any calculations of what it's gonna cost to prepare these things to bring them up to code?

   Andrew Baxter

   1:50:00So again the the that wasn't part of what we were asked to do at this point. We are really just facilitating a real estate transaction, not any estimates for repair or replacement at this point.

   Mariano

   1:50:13Okay. So if I'm gonna buy a house I'm gonna make a put a sale out that's gonna go make an offer on the house. I'm gonna have a home inspection done. When the home inspection is done, I then go back. And if I see some major things that need to be done, I'm gonna negotiate those. So if my appraisal numbers are these, but there's more work to be done that doesn't meet it I'm going to make a lower offer on that property. Right now the way this contract's written we don't have that on we don't have that capability. Um So

   1:50:44not knowing what the cost are gonna be is scary and frankly I think we should have gone to get those costs. Uh you know, what's the water heater cost, what's the cost gonna be to fix the stairways and and whatever issues are out there. Having said that to use American rescue money, where we can use it on other things, I don't think is the best way to go about it either. W this is to tell people with drug problems especially we should be using opioid money as well. So the whole boundary of this whole thing goes.

   1:51:15What I would like to see at this point I would like to add the conditioning that we can do an inspection. Add in for flexibility to to make their lower offer. They can always reject it. But right now without having any of these numbers, I'm not comfortable moving forward with it the way it's set up. Um As far as the Times building goes, I mean that that could go on. I think frankly, you know, Congressman Bullerac has been phenomenal working with us to try to make it happen. Uh but I think we should even grab our senators

   1:51:45to go put pressure on whatever agencies control what this is going on. Because right now the Times people are gonna make more money the more property it sells for, as Kathy was telling me. So it's it's not it's gonna be a tougher negotiation than what it's gonna be even a year and a half ago. First started working on it.

   OakleyChair

   1:52:01Okay. First uh Mr. Weightman and then Ms. Yeager. Thank you. Thank

   Weightman

   1:52:05you, Chairman Mariano. So the long term funding of this site for rehabbing the site and maintenance, so we have a one time one million dollar allocation which seems it's gonna run out pretty quick. And then the three hundred and ten thousand That's just an arbitrary allegation that we're pulling from the general fund.

   Mike Carballa

   1:52:25I wouldn't say that it's arbitrary. I mean that's that's based on some some like cost that we think it's gonna cost to operate the facility on an annual basis. So we would bring in a a contract not for profit operator. Uh they're gonna have expenses and and so we would look to to supplement those expenses to help on the opposite side. But yes it would be general fund

   Kathy Pearson

   1:52:44to answer.

   1:52:49that number out of the year. We got information from some other not for problems to see what it would cost and that's how that number came up. So

   Weightman

   1:52:57thank you for that level of detail, this type of detail long term maintenance and It's kinda important here, right? So over three hundred so about you're you're estimating on average it's gonna cost three hundred and ten thousand dollars on the county side. If we have a good operating partner year to run this facility. Yes. Yeah. And that would when our three hundred and ten thousand would cover we don't know yet. Could

   1:53:28cover the light bill, it

   Mike Carballa

   1:53:28could cover I mean Kathy, you can't.

   Kathy Pearson

   1:53:42it, you'll have to come up with the rest of it.

   Weightman

   1:53:44So how's that RFP written?

   Kathy Pearson

   1:53:45The RFP will be written that

   Weightman

   1:53:47way. Okay. Mm-hmm. Ms. Yeager?

   Yeager

   1:53:52My question was kind of answered, but so Is there any way to kind of get an estimate of how much all these Um repairs are going to be just so we kind of know what we're getting into. And then the timeline, what was the date where we have to use the money? Was it end of July?

   Kathy Pearson

   1:54:13We were hoping to use it by July twenty sixth is when the schedule hopefully closing would be. And to answer your question on the how much it would cost, I think I'm pretty sure we were we were talking about whether it'd be economically better to tear that down in pallet homes they have um pallet homes where you can bring in and they have all the one stop big pallet homes where they can do their dining and their and their laundry and all that. We can look at that too. And so that

   1:54:43was gonna be the Our main thing right now was to get the location and then detail those figures. I as Andrew told me it was gonna be twenty five, fifty thousand to demolish that probably. Um probably we can get pallet homes, maybe Pollard, I'm thinking less than a hundred thousand for something of that sort that would have the wiring in it. So there's a lot that can be done. We would just really want to attack the property and then worry about the building later and how that best economic would be used.

   Yeager

   1:55:13Okay. So basically you just want the flexibility you just want to secure the land and the flexibility. of whatever's more cost effective, I guess.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:55:23Okay, I'm feeling a little better now because um

   1:55:29The pallet homes are movable. And I've seen those at NACO. We we and um they were at FAC as well. Um the and William Crozier, if um if you remember William Crozier uh from the White House, he's involved with those pilot combs. And um they're wonderful and they can set 'em up. and take 'em down very quickly, they're hurricane proof. Everyone gets their own room, you know, their own beds, um air conditioning, a dresser and they can lock it and they got

   1:55:59their own place. Um and it's I would almost advocate for tearing that building down. And then Purchasing the larger palette. for the um wraparound services 'cause then we can move it. Although I don't There are buildings at the Times building that we could use that are in good condition, but we that's not You know, we may need some services on the other side of the county, so whatever we buy can be moved somewhere else. And

   1:56:30how much money are we gonna lose if we don't Spend it by July twenty.

   Kathy Pearson

   1:56:38I think she's trying to show the feds that she's spending a per certain percentage of money by August first. So if she doesn't there could be a a possibility that they would take it. This would help her percentage to b purchase this. So I just want to show that. Um and how much is that money? That she's not a little bit more than a little So she was going to use the seven hundred and seventy-five to purchase this building. From her allocation? Community development block grant.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:57:05Is that SHIP, shard? Community development block grant.

   Kathy Pearson

   1:57:08It's C D B C D B G.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:57:10All right. Um

   Kathy Pearson

   1:57:14The um and Marcy if you're on, correct me if I'm wrong. I

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:57:19I I'm surprised she's not here, frankly, actually.

   Yeager

   1:57:22I just pulled up pulled it up the palate home. It looks really

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:57:25No, it's they're cool. It's a great product. They're really cool. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm I'm comforted in the number of fifty. Because if we put more than that on here it'll over the site is not that that big and it and we don't want to overwhelm the community. Um AMP Skills is nearby for and Metropolitan Ministries for job training, daycare. Oh no, th no one this is only for single men and single women, correct? This is a low barrier shelter.

   Kathy Pearson

   1:57:55If we can unmute Paul uh Marcy, she is on, so if we have any direct questions. So I just want to make sure I get the funding correctly. Marcy if you're there.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:58:06Yeah, Marcy. Marcy Esperk, Director of Community Development, and Kathy Wright is the Community Development Block Grant. and um and it is for single um men and single women.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:58:19Yeah. Yeah.

   Pastor Jim

   1:58:21So uh

   Kathy Pearson

   1:58:23by July twenty sixth

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:58:27So uh in using the community development block grant funds on August 1st I comes into our line of credit. It's kind of like our bank account for C D G and they want to see how much money we spent. And um due to several circumstances like COVID and all the additional money we got in for COVID. And paying off our section 108 loan and a number of other factors. We've

   1:58:57been a little bit slow to spend our CPG money. We have several projects. You mentioned the time of building. We have sidewalks. We have lots of projects that are in the works, but a little bit slow to perform. So So when we look at our our line of credit, they are seeing that we have more money than we should. And so by spending the money, it

   1:59:28shows HUD that we're in good faith um using the funds that they've given us to improve our community.

   Weightman

   1:59:38Chair. Yes. Thanks, Marcy. If for whatever reason if we were to ask for a continuance on this so we understand the cost associ the long term costs associated with this site and actual maintenance and rehab calls, but we're actually l Truly looking at here. And we moved it to the to August. Would the HUD folks have an issue with that?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:00:06Well they wouldn't have an issue but it would uh it wouldn't help we we would not be spending the money so when they look um on August first they're not gonna say, Oh, that's okay, you've continued it. They're just gonna say oh we saw that the money wasn't spent.

   Weightman

   2:00:24So they're not going to yank it then necessarily in August.

   2:00:28Until we sp until we spend more. Yeah, but the the taxpayers long term cost is way higher than what we're getting from the Fed. And that's my my concern is our the county taxpayers investment is is going to be significantly higher than what we're getting from the Fed.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:00:47Well that's no matter where the location is. Although wasn't that three thirty one for more pallets um than fifty I'm not I'm not following that, Commissioner Starkey

   Mike Carballa

   2:00:57no I wanna tap in on what Commissioner Weightman is talking

   2:00:59about.

   2:00:59Marcy, to for clarification, I think the Commissioner's point is if if we delay a vote on this, uh not notwithstanding the contract the contract issues, you could still spend C B D G money in August. It would just

   2:01:17Or not. I mean we still have that money available.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:01:19We can still spend the money. Um the the key with timeliness and um and Chairman Oakley, you might even be one to get a letter from BUD that says we did not meet their timeliness deadline of getting the money spent. And there's always a chance and uh Kathy Pearson was on a call with time with me, that they will they can remove the money. that we have not spent

   2:01:49and taken back. And there's always that opportunity for them to do that. And that's that is why we'd like to show them that we're spending the money because that would be less Number one, less money for them to take away and number two again showing that in big paint we are putting the money to projects and to the needs in our community.

   Kathy Pearson

   2:02:13And Marcy, just to add to that, you were holding some of this money aside for the Times building, anticipating that we were gonna hopefully buy that and make this deadline, but unfortunately that's not gonna happen so then this project came through, correct?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:02:30That's that's exactly where it's

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:02:32uh a question, um is it possible that we could reduce our offer. Um with the cash closed quick or something that makes it more advantageous and this board could Say cut fifty thousand, cut a hundred thousand off of it and um And try and Make something happen.

   Andrew Baxter

   2:02:55The way the offer is uh written right now, it was contingent upon the appraisal. And if the appraisal did not come at or above the agreed value, then we could negotiate. But because the appraisal did come at or or above the appraised value, uh or the the negotiated value, there's no opportunity for renegotiation at that. this point. There is um one other consideration though for as part of the agreement,

   2:03:25if if the book and I'll read it, um

   2:03:30If this agreement is not approved by the Pasco County Board of Commissioners at said date, which is 7-9, seller may terminate the agreement by providing written notice to the buyer within five days. So we we really are we we've kind of locked ourselves into this board meeting with this agreement. Now I would like to take an opportunity to talk about operational costs.

   Weightman

   2:03:54Um before you change subject.

   Andrew Baxter

   2:03:56Sure, no problem.

   Weightman

   2:03:57If we get out of there, I mean how many people are knocking on the door to buy this thing? If we if we say no. And we're the only one interested. We're back at the at the negotiating table. I mean you're ba you bound the board into something without knowing where we were. And I don't necessarily agree with that.

   Kathy Pearson

   2:04:15So we did put an offer in at oh uh high six hundreds, I don't remember the exact figure. It was high six hundreds and they did have another offer at that time. And then um we did the appraisal and it did come back and and the woman is um has owned that property for many, many years. She runs the ALF, she's eighty years old and she really wanted she loved the purpose of what we were using it for. So she did um say she wanted to sell it to us.

   2:04:45So I will tell you, I don't know if it was true they had another offer, but that's what they told us. And that's how we settled on we did come in I think at 670 or 680 somewhere in that area.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:04:55I I'm gonna say I I've been, you know, watching this area and as I said I've been looking for property scouring for someone who's looking for some acreage for another purpose. There's not a lot out there anymore. Um and I think that church has been bought that was on Darlington. Um, 'cause I drive by there on the way to Amskill's all the time and someone's in there and the sign is gone. So 'cause we were gonna suggest this property. I Ah, I I'm I'm

   2:05:26really torn on what to do. Um

   OakleyChair

   2:05:29Mr. Chairman Mariano.

   2:05:32Mr. Kabala.

   Mike Carballa

   2:05:33So I just I can appreciate the conversation surrounding the condition of the facility. As Andrew said, that has been factored into the appraisal. Case in point is your comps, right? Two million dollars for a like facility somewhere else. We may or we may not use the facility. That's going to depend upon the operator that gets in there, and we're going to need to make that decision. The single most important thing right now, today, in making the decision is where we place this. The board has expressed a desire to do something about the homelessness issue. We have the opportunity, and that's why we have brought

   2:06:04this to you in the manner that we have done. Kathy and the team and Andrew's team have done a good job of negotiating. We have brought it in at at an appraised value that is that is fair considering the market. People buy homes all the time and they do tear downs. They do. But like like I've mentioned before, location is important in this. We are in an industrial area. We are close to services. We are close to public transportation. We are not in a neighborhood. And for something like this to succeed, the

   2:06:34location is probably your first step in trying to assuage. any sort of public um debate or discussion on it. So it's my recommendation that we we go with the location. Uh if the board wants to direct us to do something else, we certainly will, but we will be starting over.

   Mariano

   2:06:49Mr. Chairman Mariano.

   2:06:55We have got so many projects for sidewalks been sitting for fifteen, twenty years that haven't been done. And Zimmerman, Ranch Road projects that are move moved along that could get funded by the same C D B G funds to take care of those folks that have been waiting that long. So I don't want I don't really want to focus on C D B G. Frankly it's back to opioid money again where we should be using it. The thing you've got to look at right now, the contract the way it's written, the decision's gotta be made today one way or the other. Right? Otherwise it expires. Or could expire, I should say. So What

   2:07:25you've got to look at is the land is worth $240,000 by appraisal. By appraisal, the building's worth $5.50. If we're talking about all the repairs to be done, what we would think that value would be worth, the appraisals in factor, I don't think, all that stuff in because we don't even know the numbers. How do they know the numbers? You'd have to look at this property being worth an extra from the two hundred and forty, an extra six hundred thousand to buy the property. So the board's gotta pretty much weigh do you wanna

   2:07:56pay four hundred and twenty five thousand dollars an acre to buy this property? Is it that important for this location at this number? Or maybe we could Continue the till the end of day. Give a chance to have our real estate team go talk with them about giving us a flexibility to do a full appraisal, get an addend addendum to the contract that they've got. that we can actually go and extend it out further. Give us two weeks to go through it and bring it back. We're still in a good time frame for C D G if you want to go that way, but at the same time you can make a good business

   2:08:26decision. Right now, if you're gonna make a decision, you're basing it upon from what I can see, We're gonna overpay by six hundred grand just to get this property. It's a decision you could make. I'm not comfortable with it. Andrew, you have something to add.

   Andrew Baxter

   2:08:41So again, Mr. Karbalov really highlighted it, but the the operational cost i is is three hundred and ten thousand dollars per year. That that would be the out outlaid for the county. If I were to take off my my real estate side of our facilities management department and put on my construction and renovation side uh hat, the I would estimate that we're gonna if we were to reuse that facility, that it would either cost the

   2:09:12county or the operator Uh uh it would cost them probably two to three hundred thousand dollars in renovation cost to that structure. Now again, that is their Their decision as the operator i in my personal opinion, if I were to make the recommend if the county was doing this right now, my recommendation would be tear the building down and build something that would be purpose built for that. Or with the pallets and then or if you need some sort

   2:09:42of a classroom, you could do that with a trailer, especially with the idea that we may not make this a permanent type facility. We could do something like that. Um that is very similar to what uh I was very fortunate to be able to go with Kathy and some of the other team members to um Penellus Hope and Tampa Hope. And that is very similar, especially at Penellow's Hope, to the way they're running that facility. And it was uh pretty impressive, honestly.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:10:08Oh question, Kathy, on the three what was the number, three fifty one a year? I'm sorry, say that one more time. What was the the the number that you got that we would be putting towards the management? I think it's about three hundred and ten thousand. Um wasn't that for the time site? That was for

   Kathy Pearson

   2:10:25you didn't designate

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:10:25as

   Kathy Pearson

   2:10:26any site it was for the

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:10:27stormless initiative, that's what the BPI was. Based on a population of how many?

   Kathy Pearson

   2:10:32Well, we're thinking and we're hoping we can probably get fifty to sixty pallet homes on there. If they double up, that could be close to a hundred.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:10:41Okay. My thought I thought we were talking about one fifty at the other site and here we're talking about fifty. Um, so wouldn't that number go down?

   Mike Carballa

   2:10:51Yeah, the Commissioner's point is is it's scalable, depend wh whatever your initial assumption was. So we did

   Kathy Pearson

   2:10:56we didn't write it in regards to what what that oper I mean I'll tell you the the operations over at the youth lane for nine families is is well over three hundred thousand dollars just for nine families there. So this was the allocation we just said we would pay up to.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:11:15And um to Commissioner Mariano's point Can can any of this be paid for by the opioid money? Rather than a general fund?

   Kathy Pearson

   2:11:24So right now the answer is no to that because we don't know who the not-for-profit that's going to run it, and you do have to have some opioid substance abuse mental health issue with it. In the future, if this like if um I know Tampa Hope has hired their own mental health counselors, they could possibly put in to um pay for some mental health counselors. But at this moment, not right now, because we don't know who's going to operate it and how it's going to be run. So the answer is no. And Paula, correct

   2:11:55me if I'm wrong.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:11:56Okay, and last question and it was brought up.

   OakleyChair

   2:11:58We need to do something with this.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:12:00I know. Well this is a big discussion. It's the first one ever in the county. So it's not an easement.

   2:12:08it was brought up that this is close to the Penales County line and I and you know, we've had this discussion here and I've heard it from my constituents on holiday that they've literally seen Homeless people being dropped off at our border by officials from other cities and counties. Um how will we be sure that we're serving only our residents? 'Cause we So have enough on our own.

   Kathy Pearson

   2:12:31That's a really good question. And those were questions that we had when we visited these other homeless shelters. Pasco Hope, I mean Tampa Hope. Mayor Castor made sure they're only serving Hillsborough County, Tampa, City of Tampa residents. So we will put that in the scope. We'll make sure that that's in the scope of works and we will make sure that that happens.

   Weightman

   2:12:51Chairman. Okay. I'm I'd like to make a motion to continue this item to the end of the day, especially after hearing Mr. Baxter talk about You know, his professional opinion is to pay seven hundred and seventy five thousand dollars for a piece of land and then bulldoze it. Uh we really I don't I I think the nature of this this conversation truly is to Commissioner Oakley point a business decision that we have to make. And then we need to know you know, truth is if we're gonna knock it down, are we gonna be paying to

   2:13:21build the building? We do we have a part partner to to build the building so then we're at a You know, we own the land and then they own the building. There's a lot of variables here. And uh there there I need more of a business case for me personally. I I don't wanna say no, but I I think it'd be wise that we continue this until we get some more facts and figures.

   Mariano

   2:13:41I second the motion.

   OakleyChair

   2:13:47There's no public comment. No. No, this no. No.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:13:51Your uh opportunity for public comment was during public comment.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:13:59I didn't have the opportunity to have that knowledge before I chose not to do it.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:14:05Oh that's the right-of-way.

   2:14:08And we're gonna bring it back at the end of the day?

   OakleyChair

   2:14:10End of the day.

   ▶ 1:48:2417m2/2

   Kathy Pearson

   1:48:24also to talk about the possible need of the emergency shelter. So for that, if I can just turn it over to Andrew first and let you have he's gonna update a PowerPoint and then we'll answer any other questions.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:48:36Okay.

   1:48:38Mr.

   Andrew Baxter

   1:48:39Baxter? Good afternoon, board. Andrew Baxter, Facilities Management Director. I want to talk to you about two things that we talked about this morning, but I want to make sure it's really clear the sequence of events of how negotiations actually transpired. So the list price for this property that we're looking at was $900,000. Our initial offer after reviewing the property. looking at it, seeing the condition was $600,000. We

   1:49:10were then informed that there was a second offer, cash offer on the table of $775,000. that the owner uh really appreciated how we were going to utilize the property and asked us to put in an offer. So we put in a matching counter offer of 775. And that offer was accepted. And so just want to clarify how we

   1:49:41got to where we are, because I think that's important to understand. The other thing I'd like to share with you is

   1:49:50And I don't know why it hasn't come up. Oh, next slide. I clicked it. Clicked it on my side. The next thing I want to share with you is some market comparison that I did over the lunch break. And so what I did here is in the green section at the top, I have the list price and the sale price. And those prices are right- identified here. I have the square footage of that building that we're looking at. I have the cost per square

   1:50:20foot then. And then I have the lot size. Com and then the cost per acre based on that lot size. It's not necessarily a one for one um Because the building is there, we are looking at the totality of that property. You can't just say, oh, the property is this value and the the structure is this value. You really have to it it you can't divorce one from the other at this point. So

   1:50:52I looked at commercial property that has structures on them in the holiday area using LoopNet, which is basically think of it as MLS for commercial real estate. And so you can see five uh five properties there, and the list price is anywhere from $6.75 to $3.775. point um four five million. You can see there's different square footages, but this normalizes

   1:51:23by doing the cost per square foot, it normalizes that amount. And so you can see between $64 to $406 is the range. And then when you take a look at the acreage of those available commercial properties, there's properties that are available from 0.44 acres up to 4.77 acres, and then you can look at the cost per acre. of those properties, of comparable commercial properties in the area.

   1:51:53And then there were two other vacant land properties that I have identified in blue there that are on the market right now in the holiday area. Again, they're very small. They don't quite they wouldn't fit our need. But you can see they're on the market for $1499 or $499. $420,000 and you can see then what the cost per acre is. Obviously the one that has frontage on Fs R 54 is much more valuable. So

   1:52:24I wanted to bring those uh facts and figures to your attention and if you have any other questions I'll bring up some of the other folks that may want to speak or uh I can answer any questions that you might have. Any questions?

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:52:37Um I I did want to bring up to the um board that, you know, Amskills is around the corner. We bought that in twenty twenty and we paid um like one point two for three something acres. So I don't think that the prices that we're being asked to pay here are out aligned at all actually. Like I said, we have some clients that are looking for certain kinds of, I think

   1:53:08we, my husband and my son. look trying to find something two acres or larger and it's very hard to find, so The property is going, going, going. And um And this meets the needs of this isn't a a good location for what we need it to be. Again, at at the end of the day, it's smaller than I think what we wanted. But I view this as a

   1:53:38temporary location, which is why I like the palette's idea, because they can all move. And um And so I hate to see that C D P G money uh not get spent here and I I just think it's to our great advantage to to get moving on something. I can show you picture after picture of what US nineteen and holiday looks like. Um And the people, uh you know,

   1:54:08I I'll let someone else speak and I'm gonna s throw some pictures over there and show you what's going on right down the street.

   Kathy Pearson

   1:54:18Commissioner, while you're bringing those pictures up, would you mind um that we let Jennifer Watts from the Homeless Coalition say a few words?

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:54:25Is she online?

   Kathy Pearson

   1:54:26She is online. Thank you. Jennifer?

   1:54:36Hi Jennifer. Hello.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   1:54:38Hi. This is Jennifer Watts from the Coalition for the Homeless of Pasco County. Thank you for the opportunity to speak this afternoon on this issue. I will say that um on the last several years to the point in time count, most specifically this year, we are seeing hundreds of single adults out on the streets, unsheltered, unhoused. We've all seen this as a growing need in our community. I will say even going back to

   1:55:08Youth Lane that was originally aimed to be a single shelter because we all have recognized it as a need and then we put it to a family shelter. So we can all recognize the need in our community and I think finding a location that we all agree on is going to be very difficult and I think this is a great start.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:55:33Um I just sent you some pictures. Thank you, Jennifer. Yeah.

   Mariano

   1:55:38Got a question for Jennifer. Okay. Jennifer, you there?

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   1:55:44Yes I am.

   Mariano

   1:55:45Um on the point in time count, years ago uh I'd gone to one of the meetings and I asked for the question to be asked. uh for these people we're gonna interview. Where did you where are you originally from? Uh Yeah, I think it was a combination of either when did you get here or Uh what brought you here? Do you have any questions like that in your point-in-time count that you guys are currently using?

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   1:56:08Yeah, so we continue to ask that question. The overwhelming result continues to be that people are from the area that are answering our surveys. Um, anyone who's not from the area upon enter the into engaging with service providers, we look to divert them to where they originated from.

   Mariano

   1:56:29So you're telling me that you is is isolate the from Pasco County as different from the area, or do you take the area as the region around us?

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   1:56:39No, Haskell County specific. So if an inju if we encounter an individual that said they originated from Penny for Pasco or even out of state, we look to connect them back to the area where they originated from.

   Mariano

   1:56:52Okay. Thank you.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:56:56Yeah,

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   1:56:56I

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:56:56I want to emphasize it.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   1:57:07repercussion for the counties. as it pertains to finding an alternative to place our individuals, specifically our unhoused population. So again, it's just something to really consider. We we of the coalition and the COC really appreciate the effort from county staff that they put into continuing to look for a property and looking to identify funding to acquire it.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:57:36Let's emphasize that this is not a camping site. Uh these people will be housed. It is it is not permanent housing for them. It is um uh a a shelter until we can get them into permanent housing. So it is not a campground. All right.

   1:57:57looking at 50 pallets and um but we we have to emphasize that it is not a campground.

   Mariano

   1:58:06Madam Chair? Mm-hmm.

   1:58:08Oh yeah, I'm sure. Go ahead, Jack. Wow. I'm looking for a photo one nineteen. So

   1:58:17as we as we look at to the offer that was made before and staff matched it, that's good information. Would have been good to have it earlier, but we appreciate that, Andrew. Thanks for digging that in. Um I talked to uh Administrator Carbellar about this as well uh at the break. And You know, with C D B G money you have other alternatives to use money. With the other ARPA money we got other alternatives to use money, we can do a lot of flexibility with that. This problem is generally done

   1:58:47from opioids, addictions, et cetera. And the opioid money is something we can use. Now, we can't use it right away, but we can look I think to get it on later to get reimbursed or at least get credit for it if we need to to uh to warrant it. 'Cause we may be able to get money even from our part of money, we might be able to get state money to go with it. To partner up. So I'm gonna say that If we're looking and this I just kinda want to Get a consensus from the board. If we're looking

   1:59:17to keep this property. Because I cannot justify in any way to go buy this property knowing we're overpaying A chunk of money for it based upon the appraisals. But if we can say that we're gonna make this a situation where we're gonna this is going to be a place, we can add another place later. But if this is going to be a place that we're gonna go invest money in it, tear down a building, put in these units, I want them to stay there. I want this thing to grow, I want to learn from it, and if we decide to do more later Let

   1:59:48this be the first one, but I don't want to see this to be we're gonna go put them in, we're gonna pull them out later. If we're committed that this is the right location. that willing to pay this much money for the land. then I want this to stay a location for others.

   OakleyChair

   2:00:02That's understandable.

   Weightman

   2:00:04Mr. White. Since Commissioner Yeah, I was looking for consensus. I'm fairly aligned with that. I'd like to add in there that this is one expensive state mandate that we're trying to comply with right now. So I'll just add that point to your points, Commissioner Mariano.

   OakleyChair

   2:00:23I think I mean I I can see where you think it's extra money or that you're paying for this property and all, but the fact of it is we need to start somewhere. And I would look at this property as a place to start and begin and move forward with it. I wouldn't want to buy this property just to tear that building down. I would want to start doing things there, on that property, get in order. We find out we're doing the right thing. We may need a larger property. to do this in the future.

   2:00:54So this would be our first step. and getting things done that our citizens need done now. And if we wait to look for that sp just right special piece of property, the value could be even higher than this at that time. This gets us a step in the door and going down the road with what we need to do for our citizens now. And I think that's very important. Look at it that way.

   Yeager

   2:01:20Um and I don't honestly necessarily think we're really overpaying, like Commissioner Starkey said. I mean I live close to there in downtown New Port Richey there's no land. You know, we're business owners too and we were looking for a place for our business. It's not there. So I mean I feel like we have to start somewhere. It's a great opportunity. Um you have a building on there. I mean I'm more like if it's whatever you you know, whatever works out mathematically, if

   2:01:50you keep the building, you take it down, whatever. But I also like I like Commissioner Starkey, where you could take it with you if you had to, but then also we have this property so let's make it something. And if anything you know, we could always add to it something else. But I I I think we should buy it. Um

   David Engel

   2:02:11I agree.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:02:12Yeah. Um sounds like we have the votes. But also um you you did some research about the co the opioid money.

   Kathy Pearson

   2:02:20Yes, I'm gonna bring Paula Maracado. She's the chairwoman of our OBO task and she can explain to you um what can be used.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:02:28Marcy you can go back now.

   Andrew Baxter

   2:02:35Oh thank you.

   OakleyChair

   2:02:38But we're glad you joined us.

   Paula Baracaldo

   2:02:52Treatment, recovery services, but they have to benefit directly those impacted by opioid use disorder, substance use disorder, or co-occurring mental health conditions. So in this instance, we could certainly partially fund the facility. But if we are to fully fund the facility, every single resident of that facility must be somebody who has been assessed for OUD, SUD, mental health conditions again.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:03:16And and that is the majority of this population. So um I feel confident we'll be able to use some opioid money in some building a part of the structure, either refurbishing that building, adding a pallet building that you know, houses these services. So we'll be able to uh do pleasure

   Mariano

   2:03:36board. I'll

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:03:37make

   Mariano

   2:03:37the motion.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:03:38Second.

   Mariano

   2:03:39Okay, I got to go. I'm gonna add some conditions to it, Doctor. That we purchase land at the agreed price, that we look at using to maximize our opioid funding, that whatever we set up we're looking to keep not committing ourselves, but keeping it that it is gonna be a facility that's gonna stay there as well, and look to grow it and let the board be given a presentation later on before any next step taken to what we think is best to do. So that may be reaching out to the nonprofits ahead of time, doing a structural assessment of the property, and then coming back with a

   2:04:09plan.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:04:10I don't think we should commit ourselves to a timeline of having a lot of people.

   Mariano

   2:04:13I didn't commit. No, he's not just not putting timeline. I'm not even committing to that, it stays right there. But I want that intention that that's what we plan to do, but we have flexibility. Okay. So

   OakleyChair

   2:04:23I have a motion and a second. All those in favor

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   2:04:25say aye.

   OakleyChair

   2:04:26Oops. Pardon me.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   2:04:27If I may.

   2:04:34There

   2:04:34is

   2:04:35a process that you all have agreed to to get this money. I mean, if the board's intent is that they will follow the process on opioid dollars and go through the task force. to get an award like like every everyone else I I'm fine with that. Yeah. I think that's but my concern is that the way that settlement was structured We agreed to certain things to get the money from the federal court

   2:05:05and we have to follow that process just like anybody else.

   Mariano

   2:05:08And I'm looking to everyone to follow those processes. I didn't think I need to state that, but we need to follow the process.

   OakleyChair

   2:05:12I understood that I have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Motion passed.

   Kathy Pearson

   2:05:22Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.