Pasco County meeting record

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1Jan 23, 2020
Planning CommissionRES6Public hearingApproved
Approved minutes
Approved the item as part of the Public Hearing Consent Agenda.
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1h 29m
Erica Wayland
Erica Wenlands Planning and Development. We will be now sitting as a local planning agency. Item P D P eight, P D D twenty, zero three two five Is a large scale comprehensive plan amendment C Pell nineteen sixteen, Little Lake Thomas.
Proposes a large scale comprehensive plan amendment from future land uses Res III residential three dwelling units per gross acre and ROR Retail Office Residential to Res six residential six dwelling unit per gross acre to allow for a townhome development on approximately forty-one point seven five eight acres. The proposed development is located in the central market area. And located at the intersection of Little Lake Thomas Road and Landelakes Boulevard, on the west side of Landelakes, about a half mile north
of Aaron Cutoff.
The subject property is predominantly surrounded by residential development to the north, south, which is located the preserve at Lake Thomas, and to the east, the Bambi Mobile Home and RV Park, and to the west. There's also a mixed commercial that hugs Land O' Lakes Boulevard, including Elite Fenced and Pall's Mobile Mechanics Service. There are also prominent water bodies to the south of west and east, and potato. Prominently on Little Lake Thomas Circle t or on to the west.
The existing feature land uses is Res 3 and ROR. The surrounding flues include Res 3 and ROR. There is an established development pattern at Landau Lakes Boulevard and Caliente Boulevard. There is Res 9 and Res 6 at the northeast and southeast corners. The proposed flu to Res 6 will serve as a transition and step-down in density and intensity at Landau Lakes Boulevard. From ROR, which hugs Land O' Lakes Boulevard, to the single family dwelling residential located all the way to the west.
And with that, planning and development recommends approval to the local planning agency uh recommends that the local planning agency find the proposed amendment consistent with a comprehensive plan and to recommend approval to the Board of County Commissioners. Thank you. And please let me know if you have any questions.
Charles GreyChair
Okay. We have any questions for her? Any questions up here? Yeah, I have a question.
School District Representative
The um total acreage is how much and then how much of that is ROR and how much is the Res three?
Erica Wayland
Uh I have forty one acres, but it's quite small, but I know I don't know the uh percentages of which is res three versus ROR, but I can find that for you. But it's very s it's it's small, but I do know with uh ROR the residential dwelling unit count the density is uh twenty four. It's But I can find that for you. So it's very uh it's very small, but it still uh encaptures the ROR.
Charles GreyChair
Okay. Anything else for Erica? No? Barbara?
This is when you requested
Barbara Wilhite
the extra time. Barbara Wilheit, 6327, Graham Boulevard, Newport Ritchie, Florida, 34652 for the applicant. I just wanted to point out to you, you're sitting as the LPA, and your um role is to review the comprehensive plan amendment and recommend to the board whether they should transmit it to the state. So you have you you have your hearing today, make a recommendation to the board. The board hears it and decides whether to transmit the comp plan amendment. You still have the zoning that will come before you. There's a pending M PUD. I'm going
to go through the history just a little bit here before we let the residents speak. Um but we have a pending MPUD that will come back before you. And then ultimately, both the Comp plan and the MPUD will come before the board and they'll make a final decision. They when they decide to adopt the the comp plan if they do they'll make the decision on the the MPUD as well. So just so that's a little bit of process. You're just being asked to transmit a comp plan amendment which staff has said is consistent. They went through the land uses with you, went through the transitioning. And really I think you're going to hear about a lot of details here that are
really zoning issues where I absolutely want to make sure we're transparent and answering all the questions and talking about all the things that that that neighbors want to talk about. to that you'll hear again when we get to the MPUD coming before you. The other thing I wanted to just point out a little bit of history of what brought us here today. We've been working on this project for a while. We met with staff in July and August and and they talked about things that were important to them as we brought the chart the project forward. We filed our comp plan amendment in um September. In October, we filed a rezoning, a
Euclidean rezoning to MF-1. Um and then we had a pre-app with county staff regarding our actual site plans again getting more feedback from staff. We had two neighborhood meetings, one on the fourth um of December and one on the eighteenth of December, quite productive. And as a result of the culmination of this planning effort, thirteen key changes were made. And our planner, um, who's uh Alex Alexis Crespo, she's gonna go through that We
can do that in a little bit. I think it's more important that we hear the residents and their concerns and make sure we address those and talk about those. But um and then ultimately we filed we we continued our hearing. This hearing was supposed to be last month. We continued it so it would allow more opportunity to dialogue with the neighbors. My client has a large email list from his neighborhood meetings. He emails regular updates, changes that he's made to the plans. There's been a quite an extensive outreach. more than I've seen almost any other project I've worked on. We um last week withdrew our Euclidean district and
filed an MPD. The MPD allows us for all the things the 13 things we say we're gonna do. In a Euclidean district you can't condition those, but in an MPUD you can provide provide conditions. So all the things we say we were gonna are going to do are gonna be conditioned. I've actually drafted those conditions, full transparency. Staff has those to say here are our commitments and here's how they look in conditions for the MPUD. Again, the MPD is not before you today, but I think the history is important. I'm gonna sit down and my team is here. We're gonna listen to the residents like you will and uh see um if we can address their concerns. Thank
you.
Charles GreyChair
Okay. Take lots of notes, Barbara. Take lots of notes. Make lots of notes.
Clerk
Yeah.
Charles GreyChair
Okay, I assume I assume many of you are here to speak uh to this particular uh application. So
Brilliant, my my perspective, can you give me raise your hand if you're here to speak on this issue?
Okay.
Shirley Schmidt
Yeah.
Charles GreyChair
All right, so as you come forward Please clear clearly speak into the microphone, state your name and your address. And then your concerns. We'll try to get those things answered for you. Just come up one at a time and uh For those of you who are in the further further to the back, if you want to come forward. So you can get up there right away, that'd be great.
Shirley Schmidt
Good afternoon. My name is Shirley Schmidt. I live at [address removed].
Charles GreyChair
Can you hear Shirley?
Shirley Schmidt
Start over. My name is Shirley Schmidt. I live at [address removed]. This is my property is located in the preserve at Lake Thomas and I own 300 feet of my property. Immediately adjacent to the subject property. I would like to thank the developer for having two meetings with us. And listening to our concerns and making some revisions
in an attempt to gain our support. Um he's made revisions to address many of our concerns, but there is one overwhelming objection that cannot be mitigated if this project is approved. density and its impact on traffic. The Ridge Road Extension Project, which is going forward within the next few years, will dump a huge flow of traffic onto 41 just north of where this project is located. That alone will result in an unbearable
increase in the traffic volume. Now add yet another 400 vehicles from this project and you'll be one step closer to total gridlock. I wonder if any of those who will be making the decision to approve or disapprove of this are residents of this area or at least have had the opportunity to travel 41 between 54 and 42 during the morning and afternoon commute. Trust me, it's awful. The traffic light at 41 and
Erin cutoff is dangerous already. Residents from the proposed townhouse development Who need to go north and We'll be turning south on to forty one and crossing three lanes of traffic in a space of approximately two hundred yards to do a U turn. That southbound turn lane creates a blind zone for those headed north and attempting to turn into our subdivision. We in the preserve at Lake Thomas lost a resident le not less than
three months ago to a horrible accident with this exact scenario. The planning and zoning departments and the county commissioners will be responsible for the negative impact on traffic if this zoning change to R six is approved. Please protect the rights and safety of the existing residents with your no vote on this project. Thank you.
Charles GreyChair
Thank you.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Good afternoon. I'm uh Keith Halts with Tampa Bay Premier Realty. Uh five three one four Van Dyke Road Lutz three three five four eight. Like I think the board for the opportunity to read a letter from the owners to the board. um on one of the parcels under consideration. First we wanted to acknowledge your time and say thank you for allowing us to present to the board as we appreciate your years of service to our local communities. We are the controlling partners in
the ownership of fourteen plus acre parcel located off Little Lake Thomas Road have and have owned their property since nineteen ninety six. For many years we have operated A local Our location of Highway Forty One That is associated with our business. Well we have lived Here in the Lando Lakes area and established roots, we have and continue to be supporters of the community. We have lived on
[address removed] since nineteen seventy one, and have owned it since nineteen eighty seven. In two thousand seven we built our existing home on this property directly across from this development. We have a long standing invested interest in our community and spec to maintain our property value. Our son and daughter in law have a residence across from the parcel being reviewed for development. degrading our home value, or their value is not in our
interest. which is the reason for the developer guiding the development process. before this property was purchased The previous owner had a horse boarded on it and the only county restriction was you could not have an outhouse. Also at this time, US forty-one was a two-lane road going into Tampa. just north of Little Lake Thomas Road on forty one was a high railway overpass that made it difficult if you were going north to
turn left into Little Lake Thomas Road. to see the traffic coming from the opposite direction. Many fatalities and tower accidents happened on that corner before Pasco County took down the land bridge and constructed the four Lane Highway. with a dedicated turn lane that exists today. And it's created a safe entry. an exit into Little Lake Thomas Road from US forty one.
That four lane expansion made it possible for our county to grow and as county leaders envisioned it would. Along with it, Land O' Lakes High School was built as many other county services were built. So we did not have to drive to Dade City's Effort Hills. or New Port Richey to renew our driver's license, license plates, or pay our taxes. A new fire station was moved From a tiny building on Hill Road. with hardly enough room to park an ambulance to a much larger facility on Highway forty one. That four
lane highway is also made it possible so we don't have to drive into all the way into Tampa. Which we did when we first moved here to buy groceries go to the drug store, hardware store, get gas at a station, add more than three pumps.
Charles GreyChair
Excuse me, sir. Um your three minutes is up and uh I am concerned that you're not finished with your presentation. Do you have some ideas?
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Um Can I just read one of the p one of the paragraphs and I'll try to get through it quick 'cause this is one of the main things. We have been presented and read all the letters received by the pre process of rezoning an understanding of some of the more major concerns which have been presented as we also currently l live near the property being proposed for d development. After reviewing the developer's plans, commitments, and obligations, he's written into the zoning conditions. We're confident he has gone Above and beyond addressing
our concerns and our neighbors' concerns, and the resulting project is an excellent fit for the area. Among other things, those commitments and obligations include removing access to Little Lake Thomas Road, creating a substantial buffer to eight single family adjacent neighbors, to the south, including a large pond and solid fence with considering considerable landscaping and enhanced buffers and ponds.
Charles GreyChair
me, sir. That's a really a long paragraph you're reading there.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
I know, but it was one of the more
Charles GreyChair
speak from the heart, but uh unfortunately we just don't have that kind of time. So I'd like to to uh say that what I found what I heard you say mainly is that you're concerned about it degrading the home values in the area, but you also sound like you're somewhat supportive of the of the uh development. So which are which is
Unidentified speakerVoice A
being in real estate for fifteen years and being and living in Land O' Lakes area, I've seen a lot of the growth that's come through. I mean
Charles GreyChair
I know but you're so you're starting to talk like a politician. I'm just saying. Are you in favor of it or are you opposed to it? I am in favor of the project. Okay. Thank you. Yes. Okay. Appreciate it. Thank you for your time.
Sorry, I don't don't mean to be rude. I just want to get everybody to have a chance to speak.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Guarantee mine won't take that long.
Charles GreyChair
Oh good.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Hi, Joel Brown, uh [address removed]. Uh I do live in the preserve. My biggest concerns is the uh flooding of the property. Because when it does rain and we do have the flooding from there, we are the north end of the Booker Creek chain of lakes. Um our lake does not it floods off to the south side. So by them putting in that large um community which will be buildings, blacktop, I do see that they do have the uh ponds for runoff.
We have four ponds in our community right now and when it does flood the weirs do go into the lake. And it does raise the lake level considerably. One inch of rain e uh usually equals three to two to three inches of uh rise in the lake. So And also I want to find out how they're going to be able to turn out of that community as the previous uh person spoke. to do the right hand turn to the left hand turn back up there. I notice the county does put a police officer
up at 41 and Central Avenue. at certain hours of the day. I would like to know how many residents live off Central Avenue. Okay. That's the county property up there. Okay. So are they gonna place a uh police officer to get the people in and out of that community each day?
Charles GreyChair
We'll see if we can get you a response on that. Um
Unidentified speakerVoice B
I know they're not
Charles GreyChair
going
Unidentified speakerVoice B
to I I understand. What when was your
Charles GreyChair
area developed?
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Um the preserve at Lake Thomas. Where you live. Uh my house was built in two thousand and two. Two thousand and two, okay. Yes, sir. I am uh against the uh property being built.
Charles GreyChair
Okay, you just want to make sure we understand, right?
Unidentified speakerVoice B
That's correct. Okay. Thank you.
Charles GreyChair
Thank you.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Yeah. How are you guys? Scott Hit. [address removed]. Also [address removed], multiple family ho uh owner. Been there since nineteen ninety three. So Got a couple of things. Current infrastructure. that's existing right now inside of our community. Twofold, drainage, ingress and egress. Second, multifamily issues. that are inherent
with density. It's never a good idea. So The first one, current infrastructure, we have no drainage. You concrete that up. And that water's gotta go somewhere. And I live on a pretty little lake.
Spring fed. Beautiful. Bassett can eat a chihuahua. It's awesome. So it's gonna be bad. You've heard the Ingress and Egress comments. Don't need to beat it to death, but it's bad. Next one, multifamily issues inherent with density. You get a bunch of people piled in on top of one another. And there's gonna be stuff that starts happening. Right now we leave our doors unlocked, we have stuff all over the place. Nothing goes missing.
It's kind of a cool place. It's a gem that's hidden away in here. So Whenever you do that and you have that many people plugged in on top of that. Now we're gonna have stuff missing. Then I might have cameras. Then I might have to shoot somebody. So Not a good idea. I vote no. Please know that we are not in favor. We're not we're not against development. Development's
good. Just not R six.
Charles GreyChair
What is what is good?
Unidentified speakerVoice C
R three is good. Okay. R three's good. You know, single families, put 'em on there. Third acres. It's good. It's all good. So Thank you guys for hearing us. I sent you guys emails. Thank you for responding. I appreciate that a bunch. Please mm. For Millage's sake alone, do not vote yes for this.
It's not a good fit. Thank you.
Charles GreyChair
Those are the ones that y they don't want to get shot.
Unidentified speakerVoice D
Thank you for your time. My name is Joe Sidell. I live at [address removed]. I've been a resident of Lake Thomas since nineteen eighty two. I recall when we had meetings to establish the land use out here. You may know. Uh Georgiana Ratliff, Florida Land Design, she was the one that held the team, had the team. There were several people here that were in that same meeting. We openly established what the land use was around here. The people along 54 said six units per acre. The people further north of
us on the west side of 41, one unit per acre. We said three units per acre, and that's what the the neighborhood voted for, and that's what we got. Right. Uh if you look at your you know, if I look at your reason for the comp plan it is you know, that were to develop a guide to community uh uh progress, development, to take us from a rural county and do an urbanized county. and that as according to your um Your reasoning here it involves building the infrastructure
Which we've done. We've widened 41, we've improved the high school, we redid Sanders Elementary, we built Heritage Park. Once those uh that infrastructure needs have been met. We mu your language, we must focus on maintaining quality of life. To protect rural neighborhoods. and to limit urma urban sprawl. And that's what we're asking you to do. We have a nice little neighborhood here. We have forty residents on twenty-eight acres. If you look
at their project, it's L-shaped. On there we'll call them twenty-eight acres, the more north-south portion of it. That's where the majority of their townhomes are. So there on their twenty-eight acres and our twenty-eight acres, we have forty They want to put somewhere around 180.
You know, do the math. It's it's not fair to us. If you look at the neighbors that are around us, we average 0.69 acres per household. That's not including all the people who live on Lake Thomas. That's only the people that Take Little Lake Thomas Road and Thomas Circle.
Almost three-quarters of an acre. Taking Lake Thomas people that are going to be affected by this, it's well over an acre or two on average. So now we're going to from an acre or two on average, or even three-quarters of an acre on average, to 0.16 acre. per unit. That's a hefty change in land use. Now we have some ROR. Granted. minuscule compared to the the entire project. We're not saying let's not build it. We're
not saying, you know, we're anti growth. We're saying that it's too many units. They've met with us on our cover of occasion several occasions. We have listened to them. Unfortunately, they haven't listened back. The preserves of Lake Thomas is the most recent development that would be similar, okay, in terms of the size, the scope, the r location. They're on one third acre lots. They're coming in with 0.16 acre
lots. The only thing around there that is more than a third of an acre is Lake Bambi. That was established in 1975, prior to zoning. Excuse
Charles GreyChair
me, sir, your
Unidentified speakerVoice D
I'm sorry?
Charles GreyChair
Your r your time is up, but why don't you just wrap up for
Unidentified speakerVoice D
me? Uh I just think it's too dense. Too many units. You know, I granted that they have tried to uh appease some of the resonance by you know changing a buffer or or doing this or that. But the fact is, 215 units. On Tw what is it? Forty seven acres. Do the math. They're just asking for too many units. And your own approach your adoption, your charter says this can be done if there is a
compelling need to change the land use. I haven't heard one compelling need. To change the lands. It's Res three. Why we change it?
Charles GreyChair
Okay. Who's next?
You're not quick enough, sir.
Kathy Eshelman
Hi, my name is Kathy Eshelman. I live at [address removed] in Land O' Lakes. I've been a resident of the Lake Thomas area since 1990. I have two petitions with 99 signatures of folks that couldn't be here today. Um that are in opposition of this. And I'm not sure who I need to give this to.
Move to receive and file. Yeah. The motion to receive and file. We have a second for the discussion. All in favor? Aye. Okay.
Um
I hereby object to the rezoning of the proposed development of 218 townhomes to be built on Little Lake Thomas Road. This is a single-family community, and I object to the rezoning from Res 3 and ROR to Res 6. to allow for 218 town homes. I would prefer um that we keep the existing zoning and build single family homes. I strongly object to
the access to Lake Thomas. This is a private lake with two large developments, the preserve at Lake Thomas and Lake Thomas Point. which do not have access except for homes directly on the lake. Over the years we have as a community opposed developments having access for the following reasons. It would neg negatively impact water quality. Which is currently it's beautiful. Um it would
inc increase the hydrilla. Um which thanks to ten thousand dollars ten thousand two hundred and seventy-five dollars in donations, Lake Thomas is currently hydrilla-free. It is a private lake and we as citizens have to take up collections to clear up the hydrilla. Also another concern is boater safety.
I would rather see you build single-family homes with those directly on the lake having access only. much like the two other developments that are currently there. This would eliminate 218 townhomes from having access. Okay. Okay. Um I strongly object to this rezoning and I thank you for hearing my concerns.
Charles GreyChair
Thank you very much. Uh did you express the She expressed those concerns at a meeting with the devo proposed developer.
Kathy Eshelman
I'm sorry.
Charles GreyChair
Yes, I
Kathy Eshelman
do.
Charles GreyChair
All right. Thank you.
Kathy Eshelman
Thank you.
Jeff Hossman
Good afternoon, gentlemen. Uh my name is Jeff Hossman. I live at 31251 Reed Road in Dade City, 33523. My wife and I also own a home on uh [address removed]. And uh many of the concerns of the community have been spoken here and so I'm not going to harp on those, but we absolutely echo uh those sentiments that we are against. Uh the rezoning from R three to R six uh from a density issue. Uh we are against um public access to Lake Thomas. And um Uh
we have concerns about the flooding that is occurring and and what will happen uh if the uh development for townhomes is approved. Uh the one other major issue that I'd like to bring up would be uh the back entrance to the community that's proposed uh on Little Lake Thomas. uh road and um the fact that even with some improvements to forty one recently there is no deceleration lane to turn onto Little Lake Thomas Road uh
from forty one when you're going south. Uh so the the need to decelerate from 45 miles an hour uh to make that right-hand turn going south um is is something that could potentially cause serious uh accidents if uh there is no improvements made for a deceleration lane, turn lane there. Um so that's a major issue that uh even if there is a development disproved for single family home residents, um I do
believe that's uh an improvement that the county needs to make. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Shirley Schmidt
I spoke a moment ago, but I would like your permission to submit.
Charles GreyChair
Excuse me. We only you only have can come up once.
Shirley Schmidt
May I submit a petition from the owners in the preserve at Lake Thomas?
Michael J. Cox
Move to receive and file. Thank you. All in favor? Aye.
Charles GreyChair
Okay. Who's next?
Zed Bly
Hi, my name is Zed Bly. I live at [address removed]. Um the application submitted by the applicant states that Little Lake Thomas Road is a two-lane road. This is false. Decubeless Road, Regency Park, Hudson Avenue, Main Street, Grand Boulevard, these are all two-lane roads. Little Lake Thomas Road is not a two lane road. The application also implies that two hundred and eighteen townhomes would be compatible with the surrounding neighborhood. This also is not true. If you drive from US forty one to
The County Line Road in the north, all the way to the County Line Road in the South. With the exception of the Caliente Resort, the There is nothing compatible with this. Higher density. You would have to go all the way to D eight pecs of Florida and US forty one in Hillsborough County before you see such an increase in density.
Please Consider the precedent today.
Every medius medium sized property in Land O' Lakes would then want a zoning change. Because they will get more bang for their buck. This decision will forever change all of Land O' Lakes, not just the Little Lake Tom's community. Please vote against this rezoning.
Charles GreyChair
Thank you.
Jane Smith
My name is Jane Smith. I live at [address removed]. Um I'm asking for you not to approve the increase to R6 from R3. Uh I've lived where I live from since 1992. Uh rural community. I live right across the street from Heritage Park. I put up with the noise and everything else because of
the lake. The lake is beautiful. We ski on the lake. We've had two generations already that skied on the lake coming up. I have a grandson that's going to be skiing on the lake. So with increased people, we also have increased people on the lake. Even though the developer has said there's no way they can get on the lake, there is. You know, kayaks with ski boats are not compatible.
Um also I'm concerned with the um
The runoff from 218 units, their cars, on the pavement. Yes, there are retention ponds, but we all know we've pointed out that there's flooding on that end of the lake, and it will end up in the lake, which is at this point pristine, beautiful, safe to swim in, safe to ski in. So I'm asking that. That you hold it to the R3. That is what everybody that lives there now has abided
by. Thank you for your time.
Charles GreyChair
You're often.
Okay. Anybody else have something? Hopefully new to bring.
Tammy Stigleman
Hello. My name is Tammy Stigleman. I live at [address removed] and I live on the south side of the lake. I'm against this also. I would like for it to stay R three. I have lived out on the on Lake Thomas for twenty-four years. So I would like to keep everyone on the lake who lives on the lake only to gain access. That is true. However, the flooding issue is really severe and I've only started learning about this in December when we all started getting together. Because I live on the south side
of the lake. How does that flooding affect us? Well, it has been affecting me greatly. Because I have nine acres on the opposite side of the lake and on my property I have a creek and that creek goes behind my house. So now that the flooding in the lake drains to the south side of the lake, I wish I would have bring have brought you pictures because I didn't realize this as much. The lake drains to the south, it goes behind my house, so I literally get flooded from the front side of my house. I had to put in a new seawall. Why? Because
the waters of Lake Thomas are slowly increasing, increasing, they're getting higher and higher. So those of us on Lake Thomas on the south side, side the water is ever so slowly coming over our seawalls. So what's gonna happen when you allow this to be built? Where is that water going to go? Where is it gonna go? Are you gonna allow it in Lake Thomas? Are we gonna get flooded out on the south side too? Are you gonna maintain the quality? If you do allow it, who do we call when you've allowed it and the property damages
to our home? Have you considered the wildlife, the deer, the eagles that live out there? Are you considering all of this? Because it's not just a little Lake Thomas Road issue. It really is for Lake Thomas. It's it's affecting us terribly. We used to have a beach where I live. We used to be able to have white sand and a beach. I haven't had a beach in about six to seven years. The water is always at my seawall. Why? Why don't we have beaches
anymore? Is it because of the flooding at Little Lake Thomas that nobody's taken care of? Is that is that the answer? Do you know the answer? Because I hope you really consider this and I hope you deny this. Please keep it at R3. Thank you. Also I want to bring something to your attention. And this it doesn't equal 41.78 acres. You asked early about the breakdown. It totals to 39.03 acres. It's not 41.78. Thank you.
Charles GreyChair
Thank you.
Okay, was there anyone else that had this Anything to say before we bring the applicant back up to respond?
I don't believe I see anyone.
Barbara Wilhite
Thank you, Planning Commission members. Barbara Wilhite again. We have our team here who would like to respond to some of those comments. Some things have you know we've clearly pointed out that we don't have boat access. We will go over our plan, or we'll go over and explain to you not only that we're restricting it as a condition, but also how we practically can restricting it. We're not having any access to Thomas Circle or Lake Thomas Roads. Some of those things have changed since our initial plan, so I can understand. But my team consists of Alex my team consists of Alexis Crespo. Roy
Mizzore and Steve Henry. Alexis is a is a land planner and we'll talk to you about the issues that you've heard about compatibility and townhomes or single family to single family. Um Roy Mizor will talk about drainage. Even though we're at the comp plan stage, we have a team that has evaluated the property and knows about the property. And Steve Henry is our traffic engineer. Again, he's um evaluated traffic. So with that I'm gonna take Turn it over to Alexis for her to talk to you about the changes that were made throughout the life of this project so far, as well as some
of the planning issues. Thank you.
Charles GreyChair
Okay.
Alexis Crespo
Thank you. Good afternoon. Can everyone hear me okay? Great, thank you. Um as was said, my name is Alexis Crespo. I'm a certified land use planner with Waldrop Engineering and we uh do have a PowerPoint presentation uh to walk you through the project and address a lot of the concerns we did hear today. Um What is before you is the comp plan amendment to transmit again, but we um would like to dig into some of the details of the MPUD rezoning as that really falls on a lot of the comments you heard. Um the site is just over 45
acres in size. While we are seeking the RES 6 future land use category, we are not seeking the maximum density through our companion rezone. We are only seeking 4.8 units per acre. Um And we'll show you how that lays out on the site to carefully address the compatibility and density concerns you heard today.
Uh Barbara's walked you through the lengthy process the applicant has undertaken and and we're still at the very early stages of this, but um as was noted, we've met with the community on numerous occasions, withdrew withdrew the Euclidean rezone as we realized um that the MPUD and the binding concept plan and the conditions are gonna be very important for this project to be successful. Uh this is an il illustrative uh version of the MPUD concept plan that was submitted to your staff. uh
last week so I'm kind of jumping right into the zoning details if you will but if you'll you'll bear with me we we made many um design concessions and um laid this out in order to address uh the compatibility items you heard. So just to start with I think I can point to this screen. Is there a way to point?
Denise
Yeah the top the top Circle? Okay.
Alexis Crespo
It's not really going there. But you can see uh I'll I'll start with access. We have access to the site is from US 41. We did uh hear concerns about access to Little Lake Thomas Road. That is emergency only for first responders coming to the community. So this is not a backdoor for residents to be using. Um the access to the site will be from US 41. What really stands out, I think, when you look at the plan is how the units are clustered internally to the site to limit the building's
impact on adjacent single-family residences. As staff has noted in their report, this is about transitioning lands use from your commercial, your mobile home parks on uh Lando Lakes, and transitioning to the lower density as you move west towards land. Lake Thomas into those established single family communities. So what we've done is we've pushed the units internally. We've limited those units to two stories in height and uh four unit townhomes only. We have maintained a hundred foot minimum
separation from the preserve at Lake Thomas to our south and proposed buffers that are significant and will provide for screening of these units. In addition to just buffers and placement of the of the unit types, you'll note that we have located our preserve areas, our water management features, all of these things along the exterior of the site in order to again limit the impacts to our residential neighbors and get everything internal here. The dark green, I wish
I could point, but it's just directly below the mobile home park text. That's our amenity facility. This will be a privately maintained, HOA-controlled single-family lot ownership community. So townhomes, you do own the lot underneath. This is not a multifamily product. And that amenity site that will be maintained by the HOA is located adjacent to. The mobile, the Bambi Park, in order to mitigate any impacts of that against the single family communities. The
other main thing we heard about a lot during the community meetings and is reflected in the MPUD we submitted is the Lake Thomas access and interface. What is conditioned in this zoning is no boat access to the lake from this project. So we're actually reducing impact on the lake because there are some existing docks associated with the property. This will have a passive boardwalk for residents, but no No motorized or non-motorized boats will be able to access the lake from this project, and that will come again before
you with the with the zoning to address that concern. We also uh limited any units close to the lake to provide for water quality and other things you'll hear about from the rest of the project team.
This is a comprehensive plan amendment, so I do want to put testimony on the record that we are in agreement with your staff that this is consistent with the current comprehensive plan and the the vision to uh infill in your areas with appropriate infrastructure where you have water, sewer, schools, and roadways. This is where you want to accommodate the population growth over the long-range planning horizon. It needs to be done in a way that's sensible. To surrounding neighborhoods, but this is certainly in line with the comprehensive plan's vision for the central market
area. We've demonstrated through the application that infrastructure is available to support the project.
This is just a a closer look at how we've uh laid out the site in relation to the lake and just showing um the the frontage of this property as well as the separation between our proposed facilities and adjacent uh docks uh there.
We want to note that this project does have direct access to a six-lane arterial roadway, again providing transition away from the arterial to the single family uses further to the west, but certainly based upon that roadway frontage, the proposed density can be accommodated and is appropriate.
In terms of compatible development patterns, I just want to touch on the fact that this is again townhomes, fee simple, where the property owners will own their lots. Um, in order to uh meet the test of compatibility as you have it set forth in your comprehensive plan. It doesn't mean that single family must be adjacent to single family. Certainly we want to look at what's existing in the neighborhood and propose dwelling types that can be um compatible with that and will not interfere in terms of um noise, light, etcetera.
So the proposed townhome will be two stories in height. It will function very similarly to single family. been clustered into the site through the sensitive site design, well buffered um and is uh much less dense than than a multifamily product um or or condominium or apartment style of home.
In addition to what is being proposed by the applicant in terms of opaque walls, buffers around the property line and the development program, we wanted to note if you have not visited the site that there are existing dense buffers along the shared roseways with our uh neighbors.
And then the last item I'll touch on is just how, again, townhomes can coexist with single-family homes. Some of the the most beautiful planned, master plan communities within Pasco County regularly incorporate housing diversity within their communities. This is what makes a healthy community, as referenced in their in staff's report, allowing for both single-family and town homes is common. Those are certainly exist uh built communities master plan with those units in mind at the outset. Um there are other examples throughout
Pasco County where you have townhomes uh interfacing with single-family homes, and it's done so by sensitively designing where your lakes and where your preserves go, where water management features go to provide separation between those differing product types, but these can coexist. And again, provide for diversity of housing styles within the community. With that, I'm gonna turn it over to Steve Henry to talk about traffic.
Charles GreyChair
Before we do that er we have any questions.
Chris Williams
He's you said he's gonna excuse me. He's gonna address traffic?
Denise
Yes, sir.
Chris Williams
Okay. Okay.
Denise
Okay. And we're at three minutes thirty seconds.
Henry
Good afternoon. Steve Henry Linkson Associates 5023 West Laurel, Tampa 33607. So I want to address a couple of the traffic comments that had come up. One was the density and the effect on traffic. What this graphic shows is today the the property has land use of R3, which would allow about ninety-one single-family homes. We're proposing 218 townhomes. So the graphic on the right, excuse me, the left shows the trip generation for single
family during the PM peak out, which is about 93 trip-ins. The town homes would generate about a hundred and eighteen. That's a increase of about twenty five trips is what we would see in PM peak hour for the townhomes.
And this this equates to about less than half a percent of the level of service decapacity of US forty one. So the the net traffic impact on this project would be insignificant. In addition to that that, we're as we had said, we're providing a writing.
Charles GreyChair
Wait a minute, please. I'm gonna ask you please to be quiet. I had them be quiet while you were up here to speak. Please show them the same courtesy. They have just as many rights here as you do. All right.
Henry
Yeah. Um One way we are proposing to put a right turn lane into the driveway on US forty one. Uh it will meet all the DOT criteria for the length of that turn lane. In fact, we have met with the Florida Department of Transportation on this access and they have indicated that it is acceptable and meets the spacing criteria and they have no issue with the right-in, right out for that driveway. Uh in addition, uh we have to ask you, are you providing a D
Cell lane there? Yes, it will be a right turn lane to meet all DOT criteria for U.S. All right. Thank you. Um in addition,
Michael J. Cox
just a second. the Little Lake Thomas Road like the gentleman asked for.
Henry
Absolutely correct. Correct. We we we hit right because we don't have access to that road, we're not proposing to provide that right turn
Michael J. Cox
lane there. So from from the corner I can't remember the name of the street there. I was driving there yesterday for quite a while. But uh how long Or how how big is the distance? From the nearest corner to the entry.
From the
Unidentified speakerVoice E
Little Lake Thomas, is that what you're talking about?
Michael J. Cox
Well where you're gonna put your entry.
Henry
The the entry uh the the next driveway to the north
Charles GreyChair
Can you show the splat
Henry
up there again
Charles GreyChair
and it'll be a little bit more than a
Henry
it is approximately about four hundred feet. Okay. Four to five hundred feet.
Christopher Poole
So so Steve, the entrance is not l uh Lake Bambi Circle.
Henry
No, it i it it is south of that, yes, correct.
Unidentified speakerVoice F
Denise, can you put the site plant one second?
Henry
Uh yeah, let's go we can go back to the site plant here so if I can go backwards. This is a little hard to see it here. Yeah.
And I know this pointer doesn't work. Okay, so um
Well yeah, I can But if if you look at where the if you start at our northern property line on forty one, just to the south of that is where that little Lake of Bambi is. And you can see where our driveway is much further south than that. And again we w what we would provide is a um Right turn lane to meet all the DOT criteria.
Chris Williams
What about a left turn lane?
Henry
We we we'll only have right in, right out access. So we would have to make a a U turn at the median opening to the north and then U turn if we want to go north U turn at US forty one and Aaron.
Chris Williams
And you don't consider that a uh safety issue? No
Henry
and actually D O T encourages uh I
Chris Williams
turn
Henry
right
Chris Williams
now, I know. But
Henry
no no they encourage U turns. That's why they have access management and they have d they have designed the roadways in in in their view that the U turns are a safe movement uh on the state highways. And that has been documented by DOT in studies. And I and I'm happy to I don't have it here, but I'm happy to bring it uh when we uh do the MPUD. But there have been documented studies by the federal government that have also looked at U turns and have determined that they are a safe movement
on roadways and actually encourage those movements. And I'm happy to provide that that data to you. In addition, uh one of the issues came up was the uh U-turns at US 41 and Aaron Cutoff. We have actually looked at the accident data for the last five years at that intersection. There have only been about five accidents involving left turns over five year period, which is in in the grand scheme of things, an insignificant number of accidents for
the volume of traffic at that intersection. Um one of the things that we can look at and willing to look at and as part of this development is right now the southbound left turn is actually a protected permissive, meaning you can you can go when the northbound traffic is going. We're glad to look at that with DOT to make that a protected. That way all the turn left turns are on a protected phase. They don't have the ability to turn when there's through traffic going. That would also help from that standpoint. That
concludes my presentation unless you've got any questions.
Christopher Poole
Denise, can you put that image up, this this image on the the screen from the presentation? Yeah, sure.
Chris Williams
I think it's the other way.
Christopher Poole
I'm just I'm trying trying to understand the left end that's that's in the northbound lane there. Where is that in relation to the to the entrance to
Henry
That is north of our entrance.
Christopher Poole
Okay. How how many any idea of how many feet or
Henry
it's probably about five to six hundred feet.
Christopher Poole
Okay. So the entrance to the community directly is actually it's is off this image. It's further to the
Henry
south
Christopher Poole
essentially.
Henry
Yes, it's it's probably in that general area. It's hard to tell from this picture, but generally in that area.
Chris Williams
Okay. I want to go back to that same question that he's if you don't mind. Yes. Do you see the red vehicle there? You see a left turned lane there? Yes, correct. Where where would the entrance to your property
Henry
The entrance again it uh it's hard to tell from the where exactly where this is, but generally speaking it would probably be on the southern portion of this air of this picture that you see. Okay.
Chris Williams
I'm gonna assume that's going in the direction of the vehicle that's red. You can see the red vehicle there, I'm assuming
Henry
that that red vehicle is going northbound. Okay. So our our entrance would be on the left hand side. Southbound. Southbound.
Chris Williams
So I what I'm trying to do is figure out about where it's going to be at. So it's it's in an the area of that S U V there?
Henry
It's probably that area may be a little bit little further south.
Charles GreyChair
Any other questions? Um Who answers the flooding and drainage questions?
I'm sure we have a few questions about that.
Barbara Wilhite
Wrong way.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Wrong way.
Charles GreyChair
You thought you were gonna get away with not doing anything, right?
Roy Major
Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm Roy Major. I'm a professional engineer with WRA Engineering. My firm is is working with the project team for the civil site and stormwater design. The slide you're looking at details many of the significant uh state water management, district, and local Pasco County rules which govern stormwater infrastructure design and permitting. Uh I I would draw your attention to those top five bullet points which come from the Florida Administrative Code. I
will not cause adverse water quantity impacts to receiving waters and adjacent lands. Will not cause adverse flooding to on-site or off-site property. uh the bottom one will not adversely affect the water quality of receiving waters. I mean these are essentially uh encapsulated, you know the the the state again water management district and local rules that are designed will be reviewed by. Um the
project will be uh reviewed uh and designed by licensed under the direct care of a licensed professional engineer and my firm uh and it will conform to all of these rules. Yeah. There was a concern discussed about water quality in Lake Thomas. Um and just pointing again our design will have to factor the water quality new uh nutrient loading going into Lake Thomas. And that will be reviewed by the Water Management District.
Charles GreyChair
So are you saying that you're not going you have to Prevent any additional drainage from going into Lake Thomas.
Roy Major
Uh water quality coming off our site going into Lake Thomas is part of the design. So you're you'll Clean it up. Is that what you're saying? Well, if there's anything to be cleaned up, yes, yes. And so that is and the and our design is reviewed by the Water Management District for water quality. Um also, um in terms of of quantity of discharge, our our design, we calculate the amount of runoff in the existing condition. Or discharge
In the developed condition,
That in the existing. And so even though a lot of the site will be impervious, there'll be concrete, asphalt, buildings are discharged in the in the developed condition. cannot exceed the discharge of the existing condition. And that's why the ponds are there. The ponds receive the water, you know, they they attenuate the flow and then it's released to the receiving waters. So all that is part of our design. Again, it is reviewed by the Water Management District and Pasco County. What you're
looking at in this slide is is kind of before maybe a before or after type Um slide on the left side it based on the elevational survey of the site, what we're showing here Is the area on our site that contributes land to Little Lake Thomas and Thomas Circle. Uh in the community meetings it was brought out and clearly in this meeting there was concern over flooding on those two roadways. And so what we've shown, again, this is
based on real-time survey. This is the amount of land on the subject property that sends flow to the process. towards those roadways during a a rainfall event. In the proposed condition, the developers instructed us to take all of that flow into our site. And so thereby there will be no contributing area. From that site. onto uh the two existing roadways. So again, the primary point
of this slide Uh the stormwater management system of the project, you know, will improve the standing water and flooding condition on those two roadways once the project is constructed.
Michael J. Cox
D do you have any um? Data that would show what's going into the lake right now?
Uh I see I mean you have the proposed it showing the tip of the lake
But I'm I'm curious to s to see what um currently is going into the league. Because some of the letters of opposition There was uh one there that showed a lot of pictures and showed Uh and talked about drainage coming off this property and what it was currently doing. And the concern, of course, is that it would enhance that or make it worse.
Roy Major
I don't have that number in front of me, the actual flow number or the volumetric quantity of what's going into the lake off the property now. However, I can say, kinda per my other point, was that That quantity going to lake going into Lake Thomas, once this project is constructed, it it cannot exceed what goes into the lake in the existing condition.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Yeah you don't know that number.
Charles GreyChair
Okay, do you uh what other questions do we have? I have a
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
question for Barbara.
Charles GreyChair
Go ahead. Barbara?
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Barbara.
This site plan has more detail than a normal MPD plan does. Um and I realize the MPD is not before us, but When it does come before us, are you proposing The That exact plan be adopted with the M P D?
Barbara Wilhite
I have not discussed that with my client, um, but I know when we did Quail Hollow golf course conversion, there was a concern about a lot of these similar concerns, and we found a way to tie a plan, concept plan, and with some requirements on it to the MPUD. So whatever it takes to document the commitments, we're willing to to do that, and we can provide a plan. And I we have before provided a plan that relates to the conditions. So we will make sure that that the county's staff
is satisfied, the attorney's office is satisfied that we are documenting our conditions in the in the most enforceable way possible. So like for example So
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
is the is your answer yes?
Barbara Wilhite
Well I don't I can't tell you because I haven't talked to my client about this particular plan, but I can tell you that We have in MPUDs attached plans to them where we make a strong commitment that that's where the pond'll be. I just we haven't done those conditions yet, so I can't tell you that exactly how the plan that we would attach looks, but I'm telling you that there is a way to attach a plan to set forth the commitments that we're making. Whether it'll be that exact plan, I don't know, but we have no problem attaching a plan that
enforces those commitments. But we're st a little step a couple of steps ahead of ourselves.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
What I'm hearing is you're willing to Have an enforceable detailed plan be part of the MPD, you're just not sure if that's going to be the one.
Barbara Wilhite
Right. It depends on what detail it has on it. Is it the is it the most the ponds, is it the access points? Our MPD already has the access points. Well, can we go back
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
to the
Barbara Wilhite
slide
that's a
buffers and lake access on it?
The concept plan.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
That one.
So I guess what that's my question is that There was a representation by your planner that this was designed in a way that it would um kind of transition from the More intense uses to the east. to the lower density to the west and it was sort of clustered in the middle of the site. with the ponds and parks and buffering on the outside. So It appears to me that your planner is representing that this is effectively the plan. So
If you're asking the Planning Commission to approve this, this and or the MPD based on this plan, That's what I'm asking is. Are you are you is it gonna be cause most MPDs we approved don't have this level of detail on a plan. Understand. And you know that. So that's what I'm asking is are you committing to Some version of a detailed plan. Yes. That looks something like this.
Barbara Wilhite
Yes. I think the the maybe I'll make sure my client over there is there. Hold on a second.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
You can't I mean the M P D's not before you can say that you'll you'll only vote for the MP and you can open a
Fred Kufield
drink,
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
but you can do it.
They just said there's no four point for this.
You can say it's easy. You can say you can come to court if you don't want to be in favor of that.
That's it to you.
Barbara Wilhite
So the answer is that for the s where we have the conditions, we have a condition for example that says along the south with Thomas Lake Preser l preserve at Lake Thomas, we're gonna have ponds. We know we can have a plan that'll say that. So we can the things that are in those thirteen commitments can be on a plan. Whether our road exactly goes this way and whether we have the exact layout of the lots that way, I mean the plan would not have those lots on there. But as it relates
to those conditions, our MPUD plan, other than ponds, has all the commitments on there. It's got the extra buffers, it's got the setback, it's got the boardwalk detail, it's got the access, it's got the limited emergency access on Little Lake Thomas Road. So it has all of those elements to
So um
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
So what I'm hearing you say is you're not agreeing that it would be a detailed plan?
Barbara Wilhite
It'll be a detailed plan, but not that one.
Michael J. Cox
Okay.
Barbara Wilhite
But again you get to bring that back to you, you'll see it.
Michael J. Cox
So we we will actually have a opportunity to approve or disapprove it but it's not today.
Barbara Wilhite
That's correct. You're right- you know you're asking me to fast forward to the to the Planning Commission hearing where you'll see what we come up with and I think you'll be satisfied. And the only reason
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
I'm asking this question is because of the representation your planner made in which normally would not be I mean you can do that somewhat by words, but it's somewhat difficult without an actual plan.
Barbara Wilhite
Right, and she was talking about the MPUD. I mean she had both presentations. She talked about the comp plan, which we're here to talk about today, but she knew that there was a lot of interest in what we're gonna do with our plan. So we will come back with you. We understand the concern and I I went through this at Quail Hollow. Nobody likes us to say things and then not do them. I mean I get that. Um and that's not our intent. So we will come back with something that I think you'll find satisfactory to to tie our conditions to a plan and to make sure that the commitments that we're talking about and what our planner's gone over actually happens.
Michael J. Cox
Could Mr. Chairman Mariano that you handed out?
Barbara Wilhite
Yes.
Michael J. Cox
Are we committing to that? Because it the following additional conditions for approval are proposed.
Barbara Wilhite
Correct.
Michael J. Cox
So these are you're agreeing to that that the
Barbara Wilhite
That is correct.
Michael J. Cox
Buffering the access is not on Little Lake Thomas Road.
Barbara Wilhite
That's correct.
Michael J. Cox
There's gonna be no boat access onto the lake of any kind.
Barbara Wilhite
That's correct.
Michael J. Cox
I mean th it seems to me like that these conditions Address a ton of the concerns of the residents that I've read from and and heard today.
Barbara Wilhite
Correct. And we not only I wrote it in that narrative, I've given staff draft conditions that that are conditions of approval that have those same commitments in it. Now we can staff will look at those and say, Well maybe that's not clear enough. I try to write everything really clearly. I don't write anything vague so that we can argue about it later. I write it really clearly what those things are but I've already submitted those to staff so they can start looking at those again to show the commitment. I know it's important. Um, what we say we're gonna do, we need to do, and we need to make sure our conditions reflect that. And I don't think having a plan that also
goes with those conditions is not a bad idea and we'll make sure that we work with staff on that as we did before in Quill Hollow.
I would just point out that the boardwalk concept is was put in place. I don't I'm I don't didn't know if this came out enough to you, but the boardwalk concept was put in place as a main means of enforcing what we say, which is no motorized or unmotorized boat access to Lake Thomas. The question always comes up: well, how do you do that? How are you gonna make sure? So that boardwalk concept, and it was a similar concept that uh in Booker Creek preserved. in Pinellas County where I used to go as a child, they didn't want us in Lake in um Lake Tarpon, so they put a boardwalk in the way and we
couldn't have access to Lake Tarpon. So it's a similar and it was actually a resident's idea to to do that. And that's where the boardwalk concept has come in to actually provide that barrier so that you can't get a boat in there, you can't get a ski boat, and you can't get kayaks and you can't get paddle boards. And so that's the extra layer of Why we're doing that. The amenity was moved away from the lake. I think the other thing you have to think about is What is a townhome community? It's single family to single
family. But it's single family attached. That's because some people don't want to take care of a yard. Now, what's the benefit of a townhome community? It's common. It's commonly common architecture, common painting, common maintenance, common landscaping, maintained all at the same time. The amenity instead of everybody having pools in their backyards is amenitized so they go to the amenity center, which we moved away from the residence. So the townhome itself creates a compatibility because of the
debt uniqueness. And you're not talking about renters, we're not talking about people say renters, those people. We're talking about a single family owner, just like the single family owners that live out there today. They're living, they want to enjoy not having to take care of their yards, not have to paint their properties, not have to worry about the roofs. And so all those things are done commonly. And they're going to enjoy the amenity as opposed to in their backyards, they'll enjoy the amenity that's common. So I just want you to think about the difference and how that does create compatibility as you transition.
I think staff has done a very good job of explaining the Comp plan as well as our our um our expert of explaining the comp plan the consistency of the vision. And um I do want to do a couple housekeeping items. I always forget. We have a PowerPoint that was handed to you all, two letters of support. Would ask that you receive and file those if you would. Because the clerk will want to know.
Charles GreyChair
We have a motion to receive and file and a second further discussion. All in favor?
Barbara Wilhite
I also gave to the clerk because I sent to each of you yesterday an email with two attachments being the MPU nar MPD narrative that was already on file with the county in a public record, and the concept plan that we've talked about today that's on file and has been sent to all the to the everybody on our emails. I want to make sure that that became a part of the record so it wasn't something I sent to you that wasn't made part of the record. So I'd ask if you'd receive and file that as well.
Charles GreyChair
Moved your seat. Just a question. Um What you were referring to, Michael, the the conditions of approval? Uh has uh has that all that information been shared with the residents? Yes.
Barbara Wilhite
It has been shared.
Charles GreyChair
Because there was uh there were a lot of questions that came up that would lead me to believe that they weren't available or that at least they didn't Read them.
Yeah.
Barbara Wilhite
Right.
Michael J. Cox
So is that when it went to them?
Barbara Wilhite
I'd have to check with the client has been communicating with the residents and sending them information and meeting with them. None of those those 13 things is you know, he's talked about all those things with the residents at the last neighborhood meeting. Nothing's been new past that neighborhood meeting. So we'll make sure if the MPG narrative hasn't gone to everybody on that email chain that it does. Um it
Charles GreyChair
Well it would s might help solve some of the problems at least because uh if if things like lake access and are addressed You know that. Yeah, that that solves one problem. And I'm sure there are a number of things on there that that we talked about today. The uh Yeah, and and I think the thing is is that today we're here to n really to decide on the number of units that we want to approve on that site, not not this site. this site as a as
a representative site. that may be changed. Um The the truth is that the property When they do develop it, they're gonna have to retain their water on their own site. It's gonna drain like it normally drains. But they can't have more drainage. onto the accompanying site uh properties than already exists. And if it does, it ca it it can't go out as as felt as dirty water. So um This what you're seeing here is
not It's a representative re representation, but it's not the final product. So we're here really to talk about the number of units that we want to allow on the site. And this I think you said somebody said This if you actually calculate this, this equates to about four point six units per site, not six units.
Barbara Wilhite
Right. Four point eight percent.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Mr. Chair, you have a pending motion to receive and file. You need to act on.
Charles GreyChair
Sorry, I thought we did that.
Unidentified speakerVoice E
I'll second that. Okay. Thank you.
Charles GreyChair
All in favor? We did the first
Unidentified speakerVoice E
one, not the second
Charles GreyChair
one. Um So
You know, I think that's the c really the the question before us is if we want to approve this number of units, the R six, or do we think something else is more appropriate? Um
Unidentified speakerVoice G
One person.
Should you have more than fifteen minutes?
Charles GreyChair
Excuse me, sir. please. Sit down. Okay.
All right. So just have a seat, cool your jets. All right. So Um
I don't know how you feel about it. I I I entertain emotion, but uh you know, personally, I think maybe your R six is a little bit too intense.
I think everybody but that one man that spoke just recently clapped. The uh You
Unidentified speakerVoice E
don't want to get shot either, huh?
Barbara Wilhite
The only thing I would add to that is that the max that's a max. We get to set the density in the MPUD. You can set the density and say we don't like two eighteen. But we only have three and six. We don't have a four. We're actually missing a four in the Pasco County Comp plan. Something that's we've been talking about the planning staff, we're missing a four.
S we really need a four, but but in the end of the day we have three and six. But the ultimate density is what you feel comfortable when we come in with the M P U D. So we if we had a four we'd do a four. Um but we don't have a four in Pasco.
Charles GreyChair
Do you all understand what she just said?
Well, We have the we have two options. We have the R three which it already is. And we have the R six. We don't have an R five or an R four. So we can't Approve an R four because it doesn't exist. So what happens is is that when they come back with their M P U D and make their presentation It's at that time that we can r really m more restrict the number of units. Am I right, David?
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Yeah.
Both of you are kind of missing is we do have P D that that has been used. in the past. With the P D has flexibility, you can set the density at Whatever you want instead of that. Okay. So I don't want I don't I think it's accurate to say that the only options are are R three and R six. There is P D.
Unidentified speakerVoice H
And and just to this is Terry Pito's planning and development, just to follow up on David's comments. The PD would require a mix of uses. So it would it would mean an intensification of the of the while you could control the density through the PD, it would mean a certain intensification of the property through the use of a PD. Um but as you've both noted, the Res 6 is the vehicle or the mechanism to uh attain densities s over Res III. So that would include the four
four, four point eight that uh Ms. Will Hight is referring to. Um And it is th it is the case that through the MPUD you could cap that density precisely to the uh desired density, which would be the 4.8 that Ms. Woolhite has uh indicated. Or less. Or less, correct. Okay. I I would also note if I could, Mr. Chairman Mariano. With regard to um some of the rationale related to why res six would be appropriate for this
location, um, in addition to the fact that it being the mechanism for uh the additional density above res three. Um is the fact that Tower Road um is just to the north of this particular property and it is a vision road and a future road that will eventually intersect with US 41. And And that vision road will essentially stretch from Starkey Boulevard on the west end All the way to the uh in some instances beyond
I seventy five on the east end. So it is a cross county road that will be moving through this area. Um and so that intersection that tower and US 41 it is going to be a fairly trafficked intersection that will provide the east-west and also north-south connectivity that currently is lacking. Um for this segment of US 41. A lot of the traffic that's uh occurring along that stretch of forty one. um is happening because they're trying to get to fifty two or to fifty four. But with the addition of Tower
Road and eventually the addition of Ridge Road, also, that should alleviate those regional traffic circulation issues that are currently being experienced. That said, like I said, this is going to be an an intense intersection. That means those ROR districts that are along US 41 that were appearing on the land future land use map earlier are likely to see an intensification of land uses and redevelopment than themselves. So this REST six represents a step down from those ROR intensities that
are future and inbound. The preliminary plans right now in terms of the long line transportation plan they're indicating that Um the connection to US 41 for Tower Road is to happen sometime between 2031 and 2035. Uh the CIP does indicate that um route studies are taking place for that segment right now, fiscal nineteen and fiscal twenty. Um and also the Bexley Sun Lake segment, which is further to the west. um are likely to
ha is likely to happen in 2026-2030. So the the march of Tower Road to 41 is taking place.
Yes.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
So is the reason that this came to the Planning Commission before the MPD came to the Planning Commission because this has to be transmitted? Correct.
the board when it gets to the board The board will approve them at the same time, the MPD and the Plan amendment?
Barbara Wilhite
That is the applicant's request, so we will slow down the adoption hearing to m so that MPUD will come together.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
I just w because there's so many representations that are being made today based on the M P And I I just wanna make sure we're all on the same page that the board will approve them at the same time. They won't the board won't approve this Res six without the companion MPD that limits the density. Is that what I'm hearing from both of you?
Unidentified speakerVoice H
I understand the question. Um as I understand the scheduling currently, the MPUD has not dates have not been set for the MPUD. But there is time in the transmittal process to line those up or line the comprehensive plan amendment up with the MPUD.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
So what I'm okay, I'll ask Barbara then. So You're not seeking approval of a REST six without an imputing at the same time.
Barbara Wilhite
That's correct. And we'll do what we need to do to the schedule to make sure that's the case. We're just asking that you're not going to be able to do transmit and the board transmit so it can start the process. We can work on the MPUD, we can come back and work with you all, and ultimately they'll be adopted at on the same date. They'll probably hold a s one public hearing on both of them. Um We will make sure that that's the way it's handled. No matter what it takes with staff, you know, and the scheduling to make that happen. We don't think it's should be that you're at the boards
that asked to adopt and and then but they don't have the M P D with it with all those commitments.
Charles GreyChair
Okay, so this is this is our mechanism for controlling the amount of density we have on the site. and they'll be c they'll have to come back to us And at a later date with a With a plan. That we're going to do. can improve or modify as we see necessary.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Well you control the density through this approval and the impute approval. But if your question is Where can you limit them to a specific number of units it would be in the M PUD?
Charles GreyChair
Yeah, what I didn't want is for the residents to go away thinking that if this was approved that now they're gonna just build six units per acre 'cause that's not gonna happen.
Am I correct?
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
And that's why I asked the question whether they were seeking approval of Res Res 6 independent of the MPD. And it sounds what I'm hearing from the applicant is no, they will have to travel together when it gets to the board.
Charles GreyChair
Okay. Who else has questions?
School District Representative
I had a question. If d uh Denise, could you go back to the Compland map, the future landage map?
I mean I guess it's not so much of a question as a comment. Oh it was it's res three. So So that's the future land use. I think someone mentioned that at some point it would have set a precedent to start Spot. changing these future land uses and anywhere that there was open area around the county, you can change it. Get it? Land use amendment. So I think that is you know, I know the I was a planner with the county I'm playing with the school district now. This is the future land
use and I think there should be some sort of Surety that people that if there's a land nearby, they should be sure that the land use is res three And it would stay that way. And if we do change it, it it is gonna set a precedent, in my opinion.
Charles GreyChair
Mm-hmm.
Unidentified speakerVoice E
Well I guess I'll I'll chime in here and I Anytime you get in and again I'm I'm not a planner. Uh I am an engineer but I'm not a planner. Um but everything that I hear in In planning language today is the importance of transitioning from commercial higher intensity uses to lower intensity uses. Um Uh I is Yeah. It's my opinion that I what I've heard today is that this what's proposed for the land use change Is that transition? A
lot of the concerns, a lot of the the and and uh honestly valid concerns, but there's agencies out there that have been created and their main intent and their main focus is to address the concerns that we heard today. The water quality, the flooding, the traffic, all of those things will be addressed as these people go through there are extensive reviews that they're forced to go through to get something like this approved. This is the first step in a long process.
He would probably cry the blues about how long it's gonna take 'em till he can put anything in the ground. Um so I I mean it it's my opinion that
We're gonna get a g we're gonna get a shot at densities again with the M P D. Um there's a lot of things that aren't formalized with this land use amendment that's here. But I I think we have to move forward. With that I'll make a motion to approve.
Charles GreyChair
No. No. Okay, we have a a motion to approve. Uh do we have a second? I'll second it. Okay. Any further discussion?
Michael J. Cox
Just under discussion, you know, I I will say that I've read everything in the file regarding this and even went out there and spent considerable amount of time out there yesterday and looked at it. And it's a difficult piece of property. Um and It is a piece of property. If you go to P D you're gonna have uses on there that that you would really not wanna have More so than what is being proposed there today. Uh and the question before us today is whether or not we feel this is
consistent with the comp plan? And and I think the answer to that question is is yes. We will have an opportunity to further control what actually gets built there. But that's not today.
Christopher Poole
Mr. Chairman Mariano. I I live right up the road from from this proposed development and I echo and I understand the concerns regarding the the traffic in the area. Um it's more of a comment for the applicant than anything else, but uh encourage them to look at putting the entrance road is for you know, I I know what we're looking at is just a representation, but We can keep that entrance road as far south on the development as possible. Uh traffic coming around that corner is terrible. People's speed, it's like a racetrack there. I drive it every day. I
I see it and that was uh kind of the intent of my focus on the the left lane in too. But right out is right out, right in is the answer for that definitely. Um I just encourage you to move that road as far south.
Charles GreyChair
Okay.
Chris Williams
Pete, anybody? No, I I have that called a C same concerns is that it it to me it's like it's already R three. You know, oh it's already R three and it appears to me that we're just gonna move something and call it w uh spot zoning. I've heard that term before. And uh I I have a hard time with it. I tend to agree with the chairperson that uh Th this is not the location for this type of project. And I and what are we really
Thank you.
So that's how I feel
Charles GreyChair
about it.
Is that we need a method that we can control the ultimate density. And evidently what I'm being told is that The only way we can control it is two but it's two ways, is just don't approve it. Or approve it subject to reviewing any plan that goes in the future. That's the only way we'll have ultimate control because at some point Somebody's gonna come in here and develop that property and it's gonna be We have to go through the same arguments all over again.
Um it's probably the many of the same arguments that took place uh when when most of you moved out there. because probably people that were already there didn't want you there. And so that's something we always uh have to face. And uh So I just want to make sure that my own. My thinking on it's clear.
Supported. It's not Because I'm supporting R six. It's because I'm I want a way to control the number of units that are there.
Anything else? Car. Mm-hmm.
Chris Williams
I just need to know what we're voting on, please. I need clarification.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
You have a motion
Charles GreyChair
for approval and a second right now. We have a motion and a second to approve it. Okay. So all in favor of the motion?
No.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Okay. Does the clerk need a roll call or do you know the number?
Clerk
Jamie Geardy.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Uh I
Michael J. Cox
Michael Cox? Peter Hansel?
Unidentified speakerVoice E
No.
Clerk
Come on size?
Michael J. Cox
Ai.
Clerk
Mr. Rappool?
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Hi.
Clerk
Bruce Williams, uh present by Richard Camella.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Here
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
we go.
No, it's a increase in residential rates.
Zed Bly
So what did we just approve?
Yeah,
Charles GreyChair
what w what we just approved, so make sure everybody understands what we just what we just approved was The application that we just received was just approved. But it was approved because With the understanding that They're gonna have to come back again. We'll have another meeting like this. What's the plan? that everybody will have a chance to look at and say, okay, that plan leader looks good or we don't like that plan, we wanna Change that plan. We want to limit the number of
units on that plan. Uh It's not just strictly an R six deal. So
Well we we app we approved R six, but it's subject to Uh us reviewing the app the uh the actual development.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
To be clear, this this this body is a recommending body to the Board of County Commissioners, so they don't they don't technically approve anything. The Board of County Commissioners approves would make the final decision to approve this project.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
But you sat there and listened to the guy lie about the traffic. He said there's a hundred and eighteen units at this
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
point. Sir Sir As I just said, there's another hearing before the Board of County Commissioners where you can express all the concerns you heard today at the Planning Commission meeting.
School District Representative
Mr.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Chairman Mariano.
Unidentified speakerVoice F
Yes. Exactly.
Are
School District Representative
we going to the next item on the agenda? Yeah.
Charles GreyChair
Okay.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Should not.
Yeah.
Pasco.
Charles GreyChair
We're gonna have more meetings. Just give
Unidentified speakerVoice B
it
Charles GreyChair
a time.
Denise
I guess we'll wait a couple of minutes so folks
Charles GreyChair
can't be able to do that. Yeah.
Well now that we're all in a good mood.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Oh my god.
Yeah, okay. Uh we need it.
Denise
Ladies and gentlemen, uh there's still another item on the agenda. So those who were here for P P eight, uh if you'd like to stick around, perfect. Just um if you would limit the noise so I can present the last item, please. Thank you.

PDD-20-097

Official title

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