PDD-22-0118

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1. 1Dec 9, 2021
   Planning CommissionP19Public hearingNo disposition in the minutes

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2. 2Jan 11, 2022
   Board of County CommissionersP87Public hearingApproved

   Approved minutes

   Approved to deny the requested Zoning Amendment for the following reasons: the zoning request is inconsistent with the Comprehensive Plan Policies FLU 1.8.10 and ED 1.6.2 Preservation of Capacity for Employment Generating Uses, and ED 1.4.4 Limitation on the Conversion of Important Employment Locations because it is undisputed that the request will reduce the employment generated entitlements on t

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   StarkeyChair

   2:32:26Item P eighty se was published in the Tampay Times on November 21st, 2021, and by affidavit of certified mailings and site postings.

   Oakley

   2:32:44Good afternoon, Madam Chair. Uh Nictorius Pitos with the Planning and Development Department.

   2:32:51The Subject before the Board of County Commissioners is Seven Oaks MPVD parcel S19, PDD 22. Zero one one eight.

   2:33:03The app lookant previously proposed to modify the seven Oak S MPUD master plan to add multifamily as an allowed alternate use on parcel S nineteen utilizing the approved land use equivalency matrix. Uh currently the allowed primary use on parcel S nineteen is retail and the allowed alternate use is office. Parcel S nineteen is partially built out and contains a major retailer, very small shops, and some outparcels that are along uh Sable

   2:33:3456. The applicant has modified the proposal to modify the Seven Oak S MPUD to add both multifamily and 20,000 square feet of commercial retail office space on S 19 as a vertically integrated mixed-use development. And the Planning Commission heard this in December and voted by one to recommend approval to of the modified mixed use proposal. as noted above.

   2:34:04This is a an aerial image indicating the location of parcel S nineteen as it relates to uh uh the the southern portion of the Seven Oaks M P U D Uh along State Road fifty six. It is the area highlighted in in the red here. And contains existing infrastructure that crisscrosses the site as well as a uh kind of a carve out here of a wetland. Uh to the north here is

   2:34:34uh other parcels in the seven oaks MPUD. These are offices here and here

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:34:40I believe

   Oakley

   2:34:41and then to the East is the Sams Club. Here are those other retail users and out parcels that that I noted previously. And uh to the west is detention and and some of the office And green spaces.

   Moore

   2:34:58Mm-hmm.

   Oakley

   2:35:00Oh, sorry.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:35:04Thank you.

   Moore

   2:35:05Do you have You can't zoom in on your map there a little bit, Terry?

   Oakley

   2:35:09Uh

   Moore

   2:35:09I do have one

   Oakley

   2:35:10of the maps.

   Moore

   2:35:11Yeah, I was just seeing if you could zoom out a little bit, but we can do it and I can we can show another map. Yes.

   Oakley

   2:35:19This is uh indicating the zoning for the area, which is all M P U D. And then of course this is indicating. The future land use designation for the area. as res three as part of the Seven Oaks develop uh Development. uh previously known as the Saddlebrook, I believe. Um DRI they did include the potential to blend densities. So that's why you're seeing a res three in a pretty intense area of the

   2:35:49uh Of the MPUD along State Road 56. This is the Seven Oaks master plan here. Uh with a location for parcel S19 as it relates to the master plan. So along this edge here is I-75. Basically along this edge here is Bruce B. Downs and then stay with fifty-six over here and S 19 is All the way down here. The blow up image here. illustrates what's actually happening on the parcel of

   2:36:19S19 with all the access points that are coming into the site.

   2:36:28So in August nineteen nineteen eighty six, the BCC approved the Saddlebook Village D R I And the MPUD and master plan have been modified several times since the original approval to add uses, modify uses, and to revise primary and alternate approved uses and associated land use equivalency matrix. Uh the most recent substantial modification was in November of 2019 to allow brewery as in allowed use.

   2:36:57Well as it was proposed previously, the modifications to the MPD master plan were found to be inconsistent with the provisions of the Pasco County Comprehensive Plan. as detailed in the prior agenda memo that was sent to the Planning Commission. Uh PDD 217507 and the analysis contained in the memo OEG twenty one ten eighty four.

   2:37:17as it is currently proposed, the vertically integrated mixed use development. The modifications to the MPDR phone to be consistent with the provisions of the comprehensive plan as outlined in the current agenda memo 20 PDD 220118. which still references OEG twenty one ten eighty four. Uh mainly as part of the analysis in comparison to what was previously proposed. So at this point, I'd like to kind of take a step back and talk a little bit about what OEG 211084

   2:37:47was looking at. So there were four. Model analyses that were conducted during this uh review phase of the project. Uh the first one was conducted in the summertime and it prompted us to take a closer look at uh

   2:38:07And we developed the first Remy model analysis for the September Planning Commission meeting. And as it has been noted in a previous BCC meeting, but also at the Planning Commission. That was not properly noticed and the issue in October was remanded. uh back to the Planning Commission. So at that at that point when the project was remanded in October was when The proposal began to evolve and change to the current proposal of the vertically integrated mixed use development.

   2:38:37At that point, a third analysis was conducted. However, it only looked at the construction phase aspect and what were the fiscal impacts associated with construction mainly. It was missing the phase that did not include construction impacts. And so Uh the fourth analysis is what's being provided today to the Board of County Commissioners. Uh and that then completes and rounds out. the the fiscal impact analysis using the

   2:39:07Remy model. Um between the two types of uh fiscal impact analyses that were done. One used an eighty-two thousand square foot hypothetical commercial office development as compared against 320 apartments. And the second one, the post-October one we'll call it, used a uh 60,000 square foot hypothetical commercial office building to contrast it against a vertically integrated mixed-use development that had the 320

   2:39:38apartments plus a 20,000 square foot Uh commercial office component. So the eighty-two thousand square feet was based on the on on original entitlements. Um However, it was noted that it was likely to be an over entitled Uh Concept for the size of what was left on parcel S19. And so it was determined after rough analysis that a 60,000 square foot building could re reasonably

   2:40:08and feasibly fit on that site. And that's why the second Set of Remy analyses are looking at a sixty thousand square foot building versus the original eighty-two. This allowed us to have an apples to apples comparison in that in that sense. So uh it it and the point of the analyses that were conducted was to Look at the hypothetical, look at the current proposal, and understand, you know, how do these play out? What's

   2:40:38the context in which these can uh be developed and what is the fiscal impact to the county. Um And so the comparisons against the eighty six thousand square feet or the sixty thousand square feet were mainly Just to illustrate context. uh uh were the property to reasonably develop as a commercial or office use. The comprehensive plan does not necessarily require that hypothetical comparison. The comprehensive plan only seeks the net positive

   2:41:08revenue of what's being proposed. does what's being proposed. create a net positive revenue for for the county. Madam Clerk I don't want

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:41:18to interrupt him, but I think it's very important that I do to highlight this point. When you look at the comparison of using the sixty thousand square feet. They're taking

   2:41:31could be built possibly by no variance whatsoever. Which means variances could happen. They could get to eighty-six thousand square feet. The other thing they're not doing is we could actually increase the density of office entitlements, let's say, and increase it more. I uh I

   StarkeyChair

   2:41:47I I feel it's inappropriate that you're interrupting.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:41:51This is very, very important. The whole area. I'm not saying

   StarkeyChair

   2:41:53it's not important, but it's this is

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:41:55the right-of-way because right now he's gonna start going to other segments. What I'm gonna say to you right now is something that's super relevant. and something we should be considering as we go forward, if we're gonna talk about this Remy model and the economic factors that are involved with it in the impact. We just had a development from Astoria.

   2:42:15Just did a press release. two hundred and thirty-five thousand square feet of office space over in North Point. If you took a look instead of going to a one-story thing, went to a three-story thing, which Bill Cornell actually likes that idea. Instead of having all our people from Seven Oaks, Wesley Chapel, using that BRT that's so neat to go to downtown Tampa, we could bring jobs right here, right in this community that is first class.

   StarkeyChair

   2:42:40I I'm gonna ask you to hold your comments. I'm

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:42:41gonna allude.

   StarkeyChair

   2:42:42No, Jack, I I am the chair. And he's gonna make his presentation. We're gonna hear from the applicant. I do believe someone else is gonna the attorney for The neighborhood is gonna talk about the Remy model and let's get into that discussion when we I I when we get there, right? Hang tough.

   Oakley

   2:43:06So in the in the second Remy model analysis, the post-October analysis, there was a comparison between the sixty thousand square foot single-use commercial retail office and the proposed vertically integrated mixed use development. The outcome of the analysis indicates neg negligible revenue differences over the 10 year average. So this was looked at with the 10 year outlook and the ups and downs were averaged out uh to develop the final. uh figures that we found in in the attached

   2:43:37uh analysis. So the comprehensive plan is is more concerned with a net positive revenue than with the highest net revenue. And this is an important distinction. So see the 60,000 square foot hypothetical that was used for comparisons purposes. Essentially ma considered a uh one-story commercial building because the surrounding development was essentially one story, albeit maybe the Sam's Club to the east

   2:44:07has a mezzanine likely. But mainly all the other developments, the office and the commercial in the area generally have one story. uh to them. So the rough analysis there was a rough analysis that was conducted in which we found that a sixty thousand square foot building was it was reasonable and feasible to build it without having to uh have land development code modifications. and and uh and other changes in order to accommodate the site. or the develop any kind of such development on the site. In

   2:44:37summer. The two uh analyses, the two parts of this analysis was the construction phase analysis and the what was titled that does not include construction phase analysis. In the construction phase analysis, the mixed use development is $59,542 less in value than the 60,000 square foot commercial hypothetical development. in projected county revenue. In the does not include

   2:45:08construction phase analysis, the mixed use development is $154,973 less than the 60,000 square foot hypothetical commercial use in projected county revenue. And the outcome of the analysis, as I noted, indicates negligible revenue differences over that 10-year average.

   2:45:29In addition, in terms of some of the policies that we've mentioned previously, in terms of policy flu 1810, which ensures adequate land and transportation capacity is available for high-paying employment-generating land uses, the proposed mixed-use development in the does not include construction phase analysis produces 69 jobs versus the 122 jobs. jobs that the 60,000 square foot hypothetical commercial use use um would have. That

   2:45:59amounts to a 53 job deficit. However, it should be noted that the 20,000 square feet of commercial use included in the vertically integrated mixed use development Does provide an opportunity for boutique upscale local businesses to locate within a commercial corridor, generally dominated. by strip commercial national retailers. Um It provides an opportunity for local business to locate within a major commercial corridor they otherwise would be challenged to afford. It also adds to the value of the overall development for residents

   2:46:29in the development as the boutique shops would provide local commercial amenity. um that would contribute to their uh quality of life.

   2:46:40Uh the applicants, it should be noted, the applicants had the lorem comparative analysis, which was also included in the attachments. Takes a sampling of multiple existing rental apartment and commercial retail properties, using the 2021 tax bills as the basis of calculating potential public revenue. Um, the applicant's methodology is actually not consistent with how Florida new construction commercial professional office and rental multifamily appraised values are generated. which are based on estimating a

   2:47:10particular property's income generation potential. The specific properties determine highest and best use and the real property replacement value. Additionally, the REMI forecasting output is dynamic and models how property values change over time based on its economic forecast for the area, which is significant for properties that generate income output. Regardless of this, however, the applicant submittal does not alter nor affect the findings from the REMI analysis that we've illustrated on the overhead. So it is noted that the developer's attached tax summary

   2:47:40does not net out those local service costs.

   2:47:49So in terms of uh findings of Fed here, presently Seven Oaks is developed as a mixed-use community with residential office and commercial uses. and recreational facilities. A proposed land use change from commercial office to a standalone residential multifamily uh development is not consistent with policy flu 187 and 1810 of the comprehensive plan. In addition, Uh such a standalone development would not be consistent with policy ED 144 and 162. There was also

   2:48:19a public reliance factor from Section Flu A-2 to consider in which residents did not reasonably foresee or accommodate impacts previously uncontemplated for additional standalone multifamily residential densities. uh and how they they could have an impact on local parks, trails, and other types of infrastructure. These factors are largely remedied by the inclusion of commercial office space in a mixed use building. They produce revenues that offset uh costs associated with residential development. And so the mixed use vertically integrated

   2:48:50development ultimately uh we know from planning literature, et cetera, generally outperforms single-use developments.

   2:48:58So these were uh some of the uh code sections that were not uh that were previously cited as not consistent with the land development code. Um the project was not consistent with the land development code. As a standalone multifamily, uh in red is sort of the update for the vertically integrated mixed use development. And so what you have in terms of four hundred two one E nineteen, preservation of land for employment is a legitimate public purpose and maintaining the existing uses furthers the public that

   2:49:29public purpose. The preservation is maintained. Because there is employment generating land use on site and now generates more jobs than previously proposed. The following sections 402F 402 F1, F3, and 4021, E13, and E17. Um talk about the bullets under there, higher operational costs of the county. These are now offset by the non-residential revenues that the commercial would uh Contribute.

   2:50:00Um Potential strain on utilities capacities, these are would also be offset by non-residential revenues. Additional demands on large larger district regional park system, not sufficiently mitigated by impact fees. Uh these are now offset by non-residential revenues as well. the additional 76 students in the school system. This is still a factor, but multifamily land uses produce less impact to schools than single family. Uh and and as the most

   2:50:30recent uh analysis suggests that the schools in this particular area are Uh still Lower than the level of service thresholds established by the comprehensive plan. So they're under those l level of service thresholds. Existing commercial office uses do not use, uh do not do these things. Uh they don't create the the types of burdens that were previously noted. This is a fact, but the introduction of commercial retail office uses helps to offset some

   2:51:00of these impacts. And then finally, um has constraints that make it unsuitable for standalone multifamily development. This was mainly because of a of large surface parking areas. That had multiple dry vials that were intersecting with the existing infrastructure that was previously pointed out. And in the propos current proposal, a parking garage which has been mandated by the MPUD. uh is a significant development feature of the new proposal and it mitigates and controls land use impacts associated with parking

   2:51:31traffic circulation that's moving through from and to the site. And into the slate. So the recommendation before the board is the one that's in in bold. However, there are three options regarding this. uh pro proposal. The first option would be to approve with the conditions uh that have been identified in the conditions of approval document in the attachments. Uh the second option would be to deny the substantial

   2:52:01modification. to the M P U D And the third option then would be to uh if neither one of those Is uh uh a a suitable uh route to direct another another course of action. And that'll complete my presentation. I'll be available for any questions.

   StarkeyChair

   2:52:20Thank you. Um So I'm kind of thinking we hold our comments until after the applicant goes, or do you want to start? Asking staff questions.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:52:32I would I would recommend that you take the applicant's presentation, take public comment, come back to staff.

   StarkeyChair

   2:52:38So keep the thoughts of the questions that you want to ask, including your Remy. And I think that you're and I think you'll hear more from the other side on the Remy too.

   Moore

   2:52:47I personally would prefer To wait until public comment and the applicant has its rebuttal. There that way it's only us talking without any interruptions from staff and or the applicant. Because when it gets to us, it's us. Yeah, that's it. That's how it should be.

   StarkeyChair

   2:53:06All right, and you have thirty minutes. How many people are on your team?

   Joel

   2:53:10Uh we have uh four on the team, but we're probably going to hold one of them for potential rebuttal. We may or may not need that subject. Madam Chair, Joel II, to an associates, I'm Land Use Counsel for the Applicant. The property owner who is the applicant now is Stock Development Company. uh luxury uh apartment builder. Uh and I'm pleased to be representing them. This is their first proposed project in Pasco County. They're a high-end luxury, very reputable

   2:53:40Naples, Florida family-owned developer. Assisting me are the team from Hike Design on Planning and Civil Engineering, Winkson Associate on Transportation Engineering. Leslie Deutsch from John Burns Real Estate Consulting, who's on WebEx. She's a nationally renowned market analyst that you have had present to you previously. And also we have present physically here, Tom Lavash from WTL in Washington, D.C. He is our economic impact. and forecasting

   2:54:10expert. You may remember Mr. Lavash. He was the consultant on the Connected Cities economic modeling we did when you approved Connected Cities. And also he was an economic forecasting consultant on the Lynn Angeline Muffett Cancer Center project. Uh so he's he's very reputable and very experienced. This matter, as you know, has been pending for a long, long time. I was actually a young man and not contemplating retirement when this started. Uh but after the earlier hearing today and today, this is more than an

   2:54:40aging old man can really handle in one afternoon. So take it easy on me today. Um This is now a vertically mixed-use project, as Terry said, 320 multifamily units over 20,000 square feet of retail in a mandated, and I repeat that mandated. Vertical mixed use configuration with mandated, and I repeat mandated again, structured parking. We now have both planning and development department support,

   2:55:11including their express expert finding of consistency with the comprehensive plan, which you just heard, and compatibility as a mixed-use urbanized infill location. And we also now have a five to one recommendation for approval from your planning commission after hearing all the facts. Um, I need in an abundance of caution to just make sure the record is complete or I would be remiss in my professional obligations as an attorney.

   2:55:41So I have provided the clerk and I'm gonna ask you to receive and file. I have reintroduced the same original index of exhibits that we presented to the Planning Commission. at the first Planning Commission hearing and the addendum to that which was introduced into the record at the December 9th Planning Commission hearing, if you would be kind enough to receive and file those, I want to make certain they're also part of this BCC hearing record.

   StarkeyChair

   2:56:07I'll take a motion.

   2:56:10All in favor? Aye. Opposed?

   Joel

   2:56:12I also am going to incorporate by reference the transcripts which were prepared from both prior planning commission hearings as records of the prior proceedings and we incorporate those by reference here. I'm not going to bore you by reading them. They're rather lengthy. Ансоа проводить the clerk the written summary. of Mr. Lavache's economic analysis because it's detailed. He's here to give you a verbal summary if you need it. But I provided a hard copy of the PowerPoint presentation

   2:56:43on Mr. Lavache and Mr. Gelder's economic impact points, if you'd be kind enough to receive and file those.

   StarkeyChair

   2:56:52All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Thank you.

   Joel

   2:56:55Okay, now my housekeeping is completed and I'm almost finished. You'll be happy to hear. Um stock development, my client. Wishes to focus today. to the extent humanly possible on the positive aspects of its proposed development. Rather than its legal entitlement to implement its land use equivalency matrix conversion rights. As I stated, they are quality luxury

   2:57:26builder. This is their first introduction to your county. Under normal circumstances, you would have given them a hug and a kiss and thanked them for coming to your fair county. I'm gonna try to keep it on that tone today as much as possible. But before I turn it over to Keith Gelder, who's the principal of Stock Luxury Apartment Living, I just want to briefly summarize the cold hard entitlement facts that are related. And mister Pitos Mentioned

   2:57:56most of these. Number one. Our property is part of a vested DRI. And a vested MPUD that already has preset entitlements. This is not a new rezoning to get entitlements. They are already contained and approved in the MPUD. As Terry stated at the beginning, this is simply a master plan modification. So in my judgment, it is not as discretionary

   2:58:27as a new zoning. And we are obligated to follow the rules and procedures of the adopted MPUD and the adopted D R I

   2:58:38Secondly, multi family is already a permitted use in the MPUD. We're not here to decide if multifamily should be a new MPD use. It is already expressly approved as an MPD use. We're simply here to decide whether it would be appropriate to allow it on this specific parcel. Within the MPUD. Thirdly, the DRI development order and the MPD

   2:59:09contain a pre-approved land use equivalency matrix, which we refer to by the acronym LUN. It is already approved. It has been invoked over fifteen times. in the history of Savan Oak's MQD, Ms. Hernandez testified at the Planning Commission hearing when she was asked by a Planning Commission member. They said, Ms. Hernandez, has the county ever? denied, rejected, or disapproved Any

   2:59:39loom conversion notice that it received for the project. And she under oath said, no, sir, they've all been approved. And in fact, very interestingly, and I only learned this yesterday afternoon, Fourteen days ago. On December 28th of 2021, the Planning and Development Department approved another land use equivalency matrix conversion based upon a letter asserting the right to convert. They approved

   3:00:09it administratively. for the Northwest parcels in the M PewD. And guess what was approved administratively and stamped and signed? The conversion was from retail on those parcels to multifamily on those parcels. And where was that one? December twenty eighth, fourteen days ago from today. So apparently on some parcels, you can administratively, automatically

   3:00:40do what was done 15 times before and sign and approve the Loom conversion notice. I sent our Loom conversion notice many months ago. I used exactly the same letter form that Ms. Willhite has used repeatedly for the project. And mine was never acted upon. Instead, we have to have public hearings, and we're told that we have to prove economic impact. No one required any impact economic

   3:01:10impact analysis for this December 28th approval. And the request was only submitted in November. That was immediately approved. But somehow we're different. We're special. Uh we like being special, but not in this specific manner. So Lastly, the MPUD already has approved and allows under the zoning 1,726. Multifamily unit,

   3:01:40seventeen twenty six. To date, only five hundred fifty eight of them have been constructed, Therefore, if you approve These additional 320 in this mixed-use vertical configuration, even with our 320 units, if they get built, you still will be only at 50%, 5-0% of the multifamily units that the MPD and the DRI already promised could

   3:02:10be built. And those units were analyzing in the original impact. I mean, we don't have to prove that we can meet the impacts and mitigate for our units. They were pre-approved in the 1726 units. Chris Williams made this point at the Planning Commission on behalf of the school board when they said, what about the school capacity? He said, we already calculated school capacity based on the 726 multifamily units. This is only going to be 50% there. Of course, we've already accounted

   3:02:40for the units. And there's not an issue. So You know. I don't have to remind you that your stated BCC policy strongly favors vertical mixed use. Especially in an existing urbanized infill location such as this. And in fact, your 2020 policy memorandum, I don't know if you remember this, but when you adopted your first 2020 policy memorandum about the location

   3:03:11of multifamily units. When we j first had the debate over the fifty four-fifty-six quarter Your own policy memorandum expressly acknowledged that if your apartments were in a vertical mixed use setting, they were consistent with board policy. That's what you told the community even after apartments became an issue. So when the issue bubbled up, you told the whole development equipment, but if you will do vertical mix use for us, we're good with them. Then when you adopted

   3:03:41ordinance 21-07 last year and you carried that policy, remember the discussion about using conditional use to change commercial to apartments? Even in your ordinance, you specifically exempted any vertical mixed use project. So you said if you will do vertical mixed use with apartments, we're okay with those, even in a C2 conditional use setting. So you have expressed on two occasions, each of the last two years,

   3:04:11that vertical mixed use is acceptable in this county. So we all know That if this piece of land wasn't exactly where it is in the neighborhood in which it is located, where people live who live in that neighborhood, we all know that you would recognize this as the poster child. for the type of vertical mixed use development that you have begged my clients and other development clients to bring to Pasco

   3:04:42County for you. So now that this developer has done that, I plead for you to please review it based upon those planning principles, your stated policy, how much you've told the world you love vertical mixed use and you've begged people to do it. With that said, I'm going to stop. I'm done for the day, and Mr. Gelder is going to tell you how beautiful his project is and how much you're going to enjoy it. Thank you.

   Moore

   3:05:11Madam Chairman M for the record. It was thirty minutes. That includes rebuttal. What how much time are they at right now?

   StarkeyChair

   3:05:19I Joanne's the one keeping it, so

   Moore

   3:05:21give us everybody.

   StarkeyChair

   3:05:26They have eighteen minutes to

   Moore

   3:05:27close rebuttal.

   3:05:29I don't know. I think that's

   3:05:31No, that's what she said in the closed rebuttal.

   StarkeyChair

   3:05:34I will ask Juanne. I I don't know if we said 30 minutes as a presentation and then we have rebuttal. I don't know, but I'll find out. Go ahead. Thank you.

   Keith Elder

   3:05:42Good afternoon, Keith Gelder with Stock Development. Uh thank you for having me here today. Um I have been swarmed. Um, I'd like to start my presentation um maybe with a a short video, um, because uh really a picture's worth a thousand words and a video is worth even more than that. So if you could please cue that up and play the video. Yep.

   3:06:28I guess I'll narrate since we don't have the benefit of sound. So this is uh uh an easterly image uh of the project. Uh we're we're just gonna do a quick fly through here. This is the existing uh east-west drive aisle that lines up to this the SAM storefront here. Um we're proposing angled parking, which we've worked out with staff and they're approving um as traffic calming along this corridor. So we spin around. This is the northern development. Block, which we're proposing exclusively multifamily with the amenity and resort-style pool campus, as you can

   3:06:58see here. Um Sorry, it's a little choppy. Um, so the next couple uh seconds here we'll spin you through just some of our typical um amenity planning and finishes. Um we do really resort style living. Um uh you know heavy on the outdoor lifestyle and and luxury product. This would be a shot of the um this is the northern dry that's existing. Um this is the northwestern portion of the property. There currently is a um open retention pond in this location. Uh

   3:07:29we've worked with our civil engineer to get a uh permit modification with the water manager district to enclose that and put a dog park over top of it. This is a shot of ancient oaks looking south. uh southeast as we spin around. Um I'll get to it in my the next uh part of my slides. We're not proposing any changes uh to the existing access easements that are on the property, but this gives you um a perspective of uh you know the massing of the project, the quality. We're proposing four-story product here. And then

   3:07:59it spins out here and you can see the overall context of the property.

   3:08:05And um as I get further in my presentation, I've got um screenshots and different um examples um of some of those imagery. Just wanted to share something briefly about our company, about our background. We've been in business for 20 years. We do master plan communities. We do single family, multifamily townhomes, apartments, condos throughout the state of Florida. We've built over 6,000 units of all product types. We're known for our quality construction and our high-end product. We

   3:08:36are um Advance my slides here. Uh we are based in Naples, and as Joel mentioned, this is our uh first project in Pasco County. Uh this this map just just shows some of our active projects, which uh consist of Um single family, multifamily, and mixed use projects. In terms of uh what we build, again, um we do um Uh we do high quality, uh large amenity lifestyle driven projects. This

   3:09:06is an example of a new build we're doing right now with a 40 foot ceiling, uh two uh two-story clubhouse here. Um, here's a flavor of some of our amenities that we offer, golf simulators, bowling alleys, um, you know, fitness centers, um, catering kitchens. Um

   3:09:24We do spin rooms, uh, outdoor cabanas, gaming, trailing stations, dog parks, um, a lot of the stuff that you've seen here, last couple images. Um here's an example of one of our recently completed projects. Um it's very similar, four-story resort-style pool, um, lap lanes. Again, um here's a different clubhouse. Um you know, w with high quality finishes, just to give you an example of some of our product. And again, interior

   3:09:55stuff. Wanna skip forward to our vision for this property. So we've been in process for some time. The concept has evolved uh quite a bit since the original concept. You know, we've met with staff uh and worked very hard to incorporate all of staff's recommendations and requests, including the the uh the vertical mixed use, uh the first floor retail. Uh And we've managed to accommodate that. We've um since over that course of uh time, we've surveyed the market, obviously done our homework on the retail office

   3:10:25market. We met with brokers, we re-examined the product, we met with our architect. and completely redesign the project. So um what I'm showing here uh is some inspiration images basically. Um the top left is uh uh uh an an earlier concept which has uh changed slightly, uh but the the spirit of it uh is relatively similar. And then on the bottom right there um is a is a comp that I found. Um it's called the Ellington at Ovido Park, just outside of Orlando. The project is comparable in many

   3:10:56ways. Um it's a beautiful elevation. This particular project is, you know, in a suburban location, integrated with retail. It's four story product. It's at twelve thousand square feet of retail on the first floor. beautiful architecture and landscaping. So, you know, this would be very comparable to the type of architecture and the quality of product that we would propose. And also with the first floor retail integrated in the vertical mix use.

   3:11:25Here is uh our our latest site plan as it evolved. I I wanted to highlight a couple of things. Uh first in blue, uh as I mentioned in in the video, so the in the top right. Is showing our angled on-street parking. Um, it's highlighted in blue along the um the main drivewall there. Those will be on-street on-street spaces that'll primarily uh be provided for um to access the first floor retail. Uh the additional spaces uh that will service the retail will be provided in the structured parking

   3:11:55garage on the southern block. On the southern block, on the on the east And you can see the rectangle that runs north-south. And what we've committed to in our conditions of approval is the first floor of that parking garage, park parking garage will remain open and accessible to the public. So um and it'll supplement the on-street spaces that I have shown there.

   3:12:19This exhibit just shows some of our connectivity. We are completing the connectivity both in pathways throughout this development. Um We are the last, you know, remaining ten and a half acres to be developed. Um and there's we're connecting to existing pathways and sidewalks on Ancient Oaks Boulevard. Um and also um you know, throughout the development and then east um to to Sam's Club.

   3:12:45Here are some of the corresponding images that I showed in the video. From top to bottom in the top right is the northern drive aisle that's existing, access point that's in place, the center images of the center drive aisle as you come off HOaks. And then uh And and then the the bottom one is another one um from ancient Oakes uh specifically further to the west. And then here are the final two images. The

   3:13:16top one being the first access point as you come north of HN Oaks Boulevard after you pass the Owlparcels. And the bottom image is the large lake that's southwest of the project.

   3:13:30We worked extensively with staff as well on our um on our to meet our park requirement. Um here just shows different combinations of areas uh that we're using to satisfy that requirement. Um the details of uh the details of satisfying that park requirement are outlined in the conditions of approval. Uh we're required to meet a one-acre minimum, which we will through. a variety of of uh sources shown here. And then again, this is just some of the corresponding

   3:14:00imagery that was shown in the video and likewise as well of the dog park here.

   3:14:07Um In terms of um benefits of the project, I'd be um touched on this briefly. So um w without debating the inputs, um Of the Remy model specifically, I went and pulled uh the real estate tax comps uh for the residential and comparable retail properties. So these are these are real numbers, these aren't forecasted, these aren't speculative. These if you pull the tax plus use properties, this is what you'll find. So we uh in terms of extrapolating and from comparing the uses as it how

   3:14:37it compares in these different scenarios, these are the numbers. Uh this is where we got the the comparable values. And then this is um

   3:14:49This one as well. This compares uh the real estate avalan revenue. Uh this is significant both in the year one, but we also aggregate it over 10 years and 20 years. And you can see obviously it makes a significant difference uh over those time periods. In addition to that, the project will pay significant impact fees. So these have been, these have been updated since the Planning Commission. Our numbers were slightly dated, but you can see it's almost uh it's

   3:15:19almost 10 times the amount that this project will pay versus um a straight 60,000 square foot commercial. In addition to that, I just wanted to point this out for everyone's benefit. The project is subject to the existing Seven Oak CDD and will be making a contribution of $430,000

   3:15:45towards the CDD debt, which funded all the infrastructure for the overall Seven Oaks community. And in addition to that, this project also also has a contribution of one hundred thousand dollars per year for operation and maintenance.

   3:16:02So um With that, you know, I I just want to s uh say that, you know, that I we feel like this is the right project and right location. Uh we have experience in all these different asset classes. Um and given the the vacant the project, um the land has been remained vacant for 15 years since the SAMS Club uh was constructed and it was listed for five years prior to us going into contract. I think the market has spoken that Big Box Rec. retail is not in demand in this location. Um, we believe this is the highest and best

   3:16:33use for the property and we want to bring a beautiful project here to Pasco County. So thank you.

   Joel

   3:16:43Madam Chair, we're gonna stop here and reserve our time. Our only other speakers will be Tom Lavash. If there's a need to either rebut or explain the economic impact analysis, particularly if Commissioner Mariano has questions or argument, he's the one that would answer that. And so we'll just reserve our time for Mr. Lavash after we hear public comment.

   StarkeyChair

   3:17:03Yeah. All right, so we're gonna start a public comment. Let's start with uh people on WebEx and Um Let's get rolling.

   StarkeyChair

   3:17:17Do they have to respond me? All right. The first let me let me um let me state this first. When you do speak, please state your name and address for the record and whether or not

   3:17:31Yeah. But well let me back

   StarkeyChair

   3:17:34up. I w let's let's try this again because we have a lot of people. Even if you're online. You have to be sworn in. So is there if there's anyone here or That hasn't been sworn in That wants to speak. Can you raise your hand? All right, I think we're good. Okay.

   StarkeyChair

   3:17:54We're gonna start with WebEx first. Um the first person I have on WebEx is Patricia Acevedo. You could state your name and address for the record and whether or not you have been sworn.

   Patricia Acevedo

   3:18:07Hi, my name is Patricia Acevedo. My address is [address removed] and I hope in Sorrain.

   StarkeyChair

   3:18:23Three minutes. Patricia.

   Patricia Acevedo

   3:18:25Okay, so really quick, based on my understanding and the information that has been presented, my main concerns are the following. They increment on traffic and how that will be handled. And also how the nearby schools are going to be able to handle. uh the the increment in st in in students. Um you know the schools are already overwhelmed.

   3:18:55There are too many and not that many teachers. So that's actually my my main concern and the traffic um as well. So that's pretty much my input what I have right now.

   StarkeyChair

   3:19:10Thank you very much, Patricia.

   StarkeyChair

   3:19:13All right, the next person signed up is Sandra Adams.

   3:19:23Say your name and address and whether or not you've been sworn.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   3:19:26My name is Sandra Adams and I have not been sworn in.

   StarkeyChair

   3:19:31All right, please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, so help you God.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   3:19:37Yes, I do.

   StarkeyChair

   3:19:39Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   3:19:41Okay, um based on the information that's been provided, I guess my main concern would be the parking structure.

   3:19:49Um I know that the only parking structure I've seen in this area is at the shops at Wiregrass. And there is uh security there. Normally parking structures really need some kind of security 'cause they're they're like multi floors, right?

   StarkeyChair

   3:20:11Okay. Thank you very much. Okay.

   StarkeyChair

   3:20:17All right. Next um individual is not in the queue, so we will go on uh to the Robert Austin.

   3:20:30Oh and uh I just got word that uh Mr. Austin is also not in queue. We'll go to Zach. Besso.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   3:20:41Zachary Beso, [address removed]. I've not been sworn in.

   StarkeyChair

   3:20:50All right, raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give? Is the truth so help you, God?

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   3:20:57I do.

   StarkeyChair

   3:20:58Thank you. You may proceed.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   3:21:00I'm against the proposed rezoning of partial S. For the following reason. it'll increase our school capacity. We're already over capacity. It'll simply increase that number. It'll cause more traffic to hit the flow into 56 and hit the I-75 diverging diamond, which still has not been built. We don't have any parking structures of any site of any size in Seven Oaks. Maybe an eyesore wouldn't go with the normal plan. And we get more money out of this out of this plant, out of this property, if it was built

   3:21:30commercial and retail and that'd actually create more jobs, we should start the commuting. We have plenty of luxury apartments in Pasco County. Do we really need more? That's all I have to say.

   StarkeyChair

   3:21:43Thank you very much.

   3:21:47Um what I'd like to do is take a pause right now for the sake of time. And for everybody who's online, we're gonna swear you in as a group.

   MarianoVice Chair

   3:21:56Go ahead.

   StarkeyChair

   3:21:56All

   3:21:56right,

   3:21:56please raise your right hands. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth? So help you, God.

   StarkeyChair

   3:22:05And we believe you just said yes. All right, you are now sworn in. Thank you very much.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:22:12Right.

   StarkeyChair

   3:22:13All right, the next person signed up is Lillian Burnett. Please state your name and address for the record and whether or not you've been sworn.

   StarkeyChair

   3:22:21No, they've all been swamped.

   StarkeyChair

   3:22:23Well, they need to say it on the record. Okay. Thank you.

   3:22:30Miss Burnett, you should be good. If you're muted on your end, please take yourself off of mute.

   3:22:43Ms. Burnett, we cannot hear you.

   3:22:47Okay, we can hear you now. Okay, I'm sorry.

   Lillian Burnett

   3:22:51I'm a little uh challenged with technology, as you can probably tell. So um my name is Lillian Burnett. I uh live at [address removed] in Seven Oakes. And I did. uh regarding uh being sworn in. Um, I have lived Kevin Oakes for 17 years. I'm a licensed realtor. Yeah, uh or a one of the filters that is um that built

   3:23:21inside. I'm smith, but I'm still. Um Yeah, Chris with me. Ironically, he just sent me a text that he agrees that this should be denied. The last thing we need are more apartments. Uh the moratorium And I'm sure all of the commissioners who voted to approve this wouldn't want more permanent care. I thought. Um yeah. It's the traffic

   3:23:51is already horrendous. Getting eaten out of Seven Noaks on Ancient Oak Boulevard. Uh yes. Just Ridiculous and not even at traffic time anymore. uh the broken uh handle. Well, there's a we don't like three hundred and twenty. people multiply that times two or maybe three substances. So these apartments. That's that's a lot of people. The

   3:24:22um entrances and exits in seven oaks are going to be need to be redesigned. function the way it currently is. Yeah, it was zone for commercial. use for a reason when it needs to stay that way. This needs to stay aesthetically and remain commercial. in totality. Chicken. Continue. Yeah. aesthetics of seven solicit and the

   3:24:52other opposite. Thanks for doing it.

   3:24:59No, and if this gets approved, I certainly hope that these people do not have access to the short house and amenities. Okay. The apartment building moratory like I said needs to continue and I feel a lot Their was throwing us. All right. Resubmitting. their plans.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:25:22Urge you to deny

   StarkeyChair

   3:25:27All right, thank you very much.

   StarkeyChair

   3:25:31Read the next person signed up is Thank you. The next person signed up is Jason Canterbury. We just need a few seconds to for um to be able to switch to the next person.

   3:25:47Ready? Okay, Mr. Canterbury, if you could state your name and address for the record and whether or not you've been sworn.

   Jason Canterbury

   3:25:53Good afternoon. Jason Canterbury. [address removed]. For I have been sworn in.

   StarkeyChair

   3:26:04Thank you.

   Jason Canterbury

   3:26:06My name is Jason Canterbury. I live at [address removed]. I've been a Seven Oaks resident for an incredible 14 years. Our beautiful community contains single-family homes, villas, townhomes, and apartments. Sevenoaks has five established apartment complexes in or nearby the community already. Windsor at Seven Oaks, Colonial Grand at Seven Oaks. Enclave at Wesley Chapel, Bontero Park, Delano at Syper's Creek, with more entitlement zoned

   3:26:36and ready for development on the community property, as I know. I'm here today to oppose the proposed mixed use department complex. My main concern, I have two, the school system. My wife and I have a child with special needs. He started at Seven Oaks. and the varying exceptionalities program at H three. And he's had an incredible support team to his eight year progression into fourth grade. I fear the multi-unit housing complex and influx of new students. Would love

   3:27:06the teachers and IEP support teams even further. With your firsthand experience at Miracle Schools, Commissioner Fitzpatrick, I hope you can emph emphasize with this concern. Bus drivers are already in short supply and drop off line at Second Oakes Elementary School is a twenty plus minute event. The additional students will strain this even further. Lastly, the traffic. The land proposed for this apartment complex is one of the smallest parcels of this type of zoning in the area.

   3:27:37And in my opinion, the roads and entrances along this portion of ancient oaks are not suitable to handle the increased population density at this location. The thoroughfare is curved. It contains blind spots in the medium. And it can be challenging to navigate with the merges and multiple intersections there. the Sam's Club gas station on the weekends and during the day. has this area in gridlock on a daily basis. Although this is a beautiful plan, a multi-story building with the parking garage is not what we want at the front

   3:28:07of our community entrance. We love our Seven Oaks neighborhood and being Pasco County residents. Please deny number eighty seven. rezoning of this property. Thank you for your time today. Be well and stay safe.

   StarkeyChair

   3:28:22Thank you very much. All right, the next person signed up is Barbara Foss. If you would hold on just a moment while we connect you and you are ready to go. Please state your name and address for the record and whether or not you've been sworn.

   Barbara Foss

   3:28:41Seven three.

   StarkeyChair

   3:28:45I'm sorry,

   Barbara Foss

   3:28:45you could uh

   StarkeyChair

   3:28:46start over. Yes, ma'am, we can hear you now. Thank you.

   Barbara Foss

   3:28:48Okay. My name is Barbara Foss and my address is [address removed]. And Wesley Chapel. And yes, I have COVID. So here I am. You've got me with my froggy voice. Um, I have been sworn in. Thank you. Okay. I'm here to oppose the rezoning of this property. And my main concern is the location of these apartments, not the apartments. Right now it's very difficult to navigate

   3:29:19our main entrance. And this um will just add to the congestion there. The whole area is heavily populated. We're one block away from that intersection at 56 and Bruceby Downs. And our traffic is always backed up on 56 and Bruceby Downs. And if I try to leave Seven Oaks to get up the main entrance, the ancient Oaks entrance onto 56. I cannot make a right hand turn to

   3:29:49do that during the heavy track times. Um, it's all backed up to 75 and I know we all think that it's gonna improve once that is complete, that intersection is complete. But the fact is our population density is very high. This is the area that the apartments are acting to build in. And We do have a land that is owned for apartments. It's on the north section of our property, with

   3:30:20the gentleman just stated, you know, that it was approved to have multi-family buildings there.

   3:30:28There are numerous, there's several streets there for entering and exiting. our subdivision and there are traffic lights that are under construction so this would appear to be a much safer location for their beautiful product. Um Adding apartments to to the SAMS parking lot does not appear to be sick for anyone. Right now people ignore the no U-turn signs. Up there. And I can't imagine

   3:30:59what it'd be like if we added 320 apartments to this area. Um, to the people that are of this product. You know, it is beautiful. But I'm sorry, I have to ask myself, why do you want to put high end luxury apartments in Sam's parking lot? The view to the east, and I said I can imagine it. The view to the east is Sam's Club. The view to the south is State Route fifty six and all the traffic congestion. The view to the west is

   3:31:29a fountain and offices and apartments and the view to the north is offices. Why not build on our northern section of Seven Oakes? where there's lots of land, there's ponds and there's space. No parking garage would be needed and there's easy access And it goes along with our master plan. You don't have to do any fat. Uh so finally I'm gonna just ask commissioners to please stop the rezoning of this. Not because these people shouldn't be able to build They should. on

   3:31:59land that is zoned for apartments in the northern end of the property or across the street on Fort Property where

   3:32:08Thank you.

   StarkeyChair

   3:32:11All right, so the um the next person who's uh signed up for WebEx is not on, however, they might be with the next individual. Um Michael Garbut. Um Garbut, you are the next person that is logged in on WebEx, but Marina may be with you, so if you could let us know that and if you could state your name, address for the record and whether or not you've been sworn.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:32:34And then we'll make a garbage. My address is [address removed]. And I have been sworn in. Um my wife's not gonna be uh making comments.

   StarkeyChair

   3:32:47Okay, thank you. You may proceed.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:32:51Seven Oaks is a great neighborhood. It's well planned and it functions well for its residents. The original master plan is good. There are many reasons to oppose this change to the master plan and I will highlight two of them. Any community of two thousand homes will have traffic. But it's not excessive. As residents, we've learned how to get in and out of our subdivision as efficiently as possible. So we can foresee how 500 new apartment

   3:33:21residents are likely to use the roads. Consider someone that needs to go north on Bruce Bay Downs Boulevard. From the apartments, they turn left across the traffic into Ancient Oakes Boulevard. Then they turned left at the traffic light into State Road fifty six. Then the left at the next traffic light into Bruce B down. Three left turns across traffic. Traffic already backs up turning left out of ancient oaks, which will make it difficult to turn left out of the apartments into ancient oaks. The

   3:33:51alternative is to turn right into Ancient Oaks, right into Summergate, right into Bruce Bay Downs, and then do a U turn of the lights to go north on Uh Must be down. Traffic already backs up on Summergate, turning into Brewster Downs, so that's not ideal. ultimately the apartment residents will do what the other residents seven oakes already do. Then we'll go north on ancient owns through the entire subdivision. This is a neighborhood road with children walking and cycling. Several speed tables were

   3:34:21recently installed because the traffic is already quite heavy through the maintenance. Do we really want to add more traffic? I don't think so. It is easy to look at the roads and generically conclude that they're adequate for the new residents. But when you have local knowledge of how the roads are actually used, then you see there will be a problem. This is one example for people going north. We don't have time to go into every scenario, but there are problems in most directions. One more point. There

   3:34:52is a well-used nature trail in Seven Oaks. It's well used but not crowded. It starts on Summergate Boulevard, a five-minute walk from the new apartments. It was never planned to support an additional 500 residents. the planned recreation facilities, the new apartments, for the new apartments are inadequate and do not meet the master plan and the future land use requirements. So it's inevitable that the new residents will use the existing facilities that were never intended for their

   3:35:22use. Those communities will become crowded and lower the quality of life in our community. That's all I have. Thank you.

   StarkeyChair

   3:35:32Thank you. Uh is okay and his wife's not speaking. Okay.

   StarkeyChair

   3:35:36The next uh the next person signed up is Rhonda Hawkins.

   3:35:52What was that for?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:35:54Yeah, give it three

   StarkeyChair

   3:35:55seconds.

   3:35:57Ms. Hawkins, um you have been promoted. You can state your name and address for the record and whether or not you've been sworn.

   3:36:07Ms. Hawkins, we cannot hear you. Would you um look to see if you have muted yourself?

   StarkeyChair

   3:36:17She's showing up here.

   StarkeyChair

   3:36:19Yeah. We cannot hear you, Miss Hawkins.

   3:36:28I'm sure do you want to move on and come back? Yeah,

   StarkeyChair

   3:36:31we'll we'll come back. To you, Ms. Hawkins.

   StarkeyChair

   3:36:35Right. The next the next person on WebEx is James Henrich. Hold on just a second for us to promote you and you are promoted. Please state your name and address for the record and whether or not you've been sworn.

   James Henrik

   3:36:48Uh I have not been sworn.

   StarkeyChair

   3:36:50Okay, please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, so help you God.

   James Henrik

   3:36:58Uh yes I do.

   StarkeyChair

   3:36:59Thank you. You may proceed.

   James Henrik

   3:37:01My name is James Henrik and I live at [address removed]. Speaking on Seven Oaks Amendment Master Plan. Madam Chair and fellow commissioners, thank you for a few minutes of your time. I speak up today in vehement opposition to the rezoning request for the Seven Oaks parcel S19 from commercial use to mixed use. My first objection and the most obvious is the loss in tax revenue

   3:37:31due to the change, especially if the parcel was to be developed vertically with additional commercial space like the four-story buildings in the applicant's video. My second objection to the request is that they want to waive the requirement for a neighborhood park. Is the developer expecting the kids to play in the Sam's parking lot?

   3:37:55Would you want your children? Playing in the parking lot. Also, the applicant's narrative is a bit misleading as they try to portray this as an urban, walkable type area. This parcel is not in an area like Bay Shore Boulevard or the River Walk. It's in a commercial corridor where no one is walking and everyone is driving a vehicle. And this brings me to my final objection. My wife Victoria and I own a Pasco County small business called Five Star Staffing

   3:38:26Solutions, and we currently rent space in the adjacent Summergate Professional Center. Our goal is to make five-star staffing, the premier staffing agency in Pasco County, so we can attract premier talent to Pasco County. The only way we can do that is to have access to affordable commercial red. Last year, our rent went up 4.5%, and the tenant next door's rent increased 6%. We're both expecting rent increases again this year when our current

   3:38:56lease expired. If you vote to rezone and reduce the amount of property, all you will be doing is eliminated needed supply and punishing the small and medium-sized businesses like five-star staffing. Mm-hmm. I've lived and worked in Pasco County for almost 25 years now, and I've heard a lot of rhetoric over the years that our county leaders no longer want Pasco to be considered a bedroom community for Hillsborough or Pinellas. If that's

   3:39:26the case, then please don't eliminate valuable commercial space that could be used to attract higher wage-paying jobs. Yeah. Please know on item 87. That would benefit Pasco County, our small and medium-sized businesses, and our residents. Thank you for your time.

   StarkeyChair

   3:39:46Thank you very much. Next. Uh the next individual is not um in the c is not in the queue. So we'll move on to Jim Cotlin.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   3:39:59Well can you hear me?

   StarkeyChair

   3:40:01Yes, please state your name, address for the record and whether or not you've been sworn.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   3:40:05Uh my name is Jim Cotlin, [address removed] in Seven Oaks. I have been sworn. Um thanks for this opportunity to speak. Sorry for the virtual attendance. It was my intent to attend today, but this morning I tested positive for COVID. I have spent a total of 23 years in the military, 20 of them as an active duty enlisted and commissioned Navy SEAL officer. During my career I have been assigned to SEAL teams in California and Virginia to include SEAL Team 6, and I have conducted

   3:40:35multiple combat and contingency deployments around the world to include Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Haiti, Colombia, and multiple other garden spots. In 2004, I was transferred to SOCOM on McDill, while my wife taught at local high schools. And after my retirement in 2008, we decided to stay in Wesley Chapel. In 2014, my wife and I started Tri-Det Technologies and Consulting Global LLC, a small business administration, certified woman-owned small business, and a certified woman-owned Florida Business Enterprise. Our customers include local,

   3:41:05state, federal law enforcement, Department of Defense, Homeland Security, and State Department. We support their logistics, administrative, business operations, medical credentialing, exercise design, and training requirements. One of our current customers is the Pasco Sheriff Office, where we, for the past six years, have been providing high-risk weapons and tactics training support to the Pasco SWAT team and also help them to plan, establish, and execute the Pasco SWAT school. Because 98% of our employees are required to have a top-secret security clearance, the government requires us to maintain a top-secret

   3:41:36facility clearance for our business. Therefore, it is important that our business address is located close to our home. This allows us to host meetings, bring current government customers, small and large business teaming partners, and employees from around the United States to Wesley Chapel. We have been looking for alternate corporate office space in Seven Oaks that is close to our home, the interstate lodging, restaurants, and retail, all things that help us host our meetings. We are hopeful that with the new hospital being built, and because of the current zoning, that the new office spaces will be constructed in this area to accommodate not

   3:42:06only current Wesley Chapel businesses, but other new businesses that will be looking for office space near the hospital. And we were concerned when we heard about the possibility of rezoning this area. I do agree with the previous gentleman's comments regarding box storage. And I would ask if there was a study completed regarding the impact of small and disadvantaged. managed businesses like ours as rezoning this would push us to the Hills nearby Hillsborough County for us potentially down as far as Sokon. There are dozens of military and small business owners living in Seven Oaks and if the rezoning was to

   3:42:36go through they too would be adversely. I do understand the current proposal is for a multi-use property with commercial real estate, and while I applaud the developer for including this change, this space would hardly support the demand for small business office space in the area. There are plenty of places in Pasco that are already zoned and can more readily support a We do not need any large box doors, and there are very few places that cater to professional office space that have infrastructure resources, lodging, and other commercial spaces already in place that will help existing future Wesley Chapel-based small

   3:43:06businesses and small disadvantaged businesses enterprises like ours to thrive and grow. I'm therefore respectfully requesting that the BOCC deny the application to rezone and encourage your support to pass Wesley Chapel. small businesses by keeping this commercially zoned for office space. Thank you.

   StarkeyChair

   3:43:23Thank you.

   StarkeyChair

   3:43:25All right, the next two who pre-registered are not logged into WebEx, so we'll move on to James Morrow. Hold on just a second, make sure that we can promote you. You are promoted. If you could state your name, address, and whether you've been sworn for the record.

   Unidentified speakerVoice G

   3:43:40I have been sworn. Um, whoops, can you hear me?

   StarkeyChair

   3:43:44Yes, we can hear you. Go ahead.

   Unidentified speakerVoice G

   3:43:47Um I am Sworn and uh James Morrow, [address removed], uh [address removed]. Um I go along with what's been said so far by the residents speaking, uh the traffic uh problems that we're gonna have. the fact that the largest intersection in the f in Florida is a quarter of a mile away from this intersection. Which is already um Uh accident prone. So The the big picture

   3:44:17is we bought our house and had our house built here seventeen years ago. And we felt we were part of a planned community. But that plan looks like it's changed. And using a football analogy because we just watched the uh as they call these playoffs last night. Uh it seems like the parameters uh are being changed in halftime. and uh we make the field you know, make the field smaller so that we can sell more seats. That you know, that doesn't

   3:44:47seem to make a lot of A lot of sense. But uh we uh I'm trying to figure out how this is an advantage to uh the residents of Seven Oaks and also for Pasco County. Maybe there's some additional revenue, maybe not, but Uh definitely with uh would be uh a benefit to the developers. And the uh the rental hurt people. Uh don't make money recouping uh money for the property that was never developed.

   3:45:18Uh they can charge uh uh high rental rates because of the prestige address and the uh of Seven Oaks. Uh and uh so I think the developers and the the rental people will profit significantly from this. But it just seems like the congestion the uh the traffic hazards and the the other uh comments that uh that my fellow uh neighbors have made. Uh uh this this project should should

   3:45:48not be uh further.

   StarkeyChair

   3:45:52Thank you very much. Thank you. The issue

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:45:56of that thing is why can't you know that?

   StarkeyChair

   3:45:59I don't know. Is it working? Didn't move okay. Okay. All right. Thank you. The next person in the queue is Karina Natividad. Hold on just a moment. We um you are promoted. If you could state your name, address for the record and whether or not you've been sworn.

   3:46:22Ms. Natavida Natavidal, you can go ahead and Proceed.

   3:46:31We're not able to hear you. Make sure that you're not on mute on your end. Mm.

   3:46:46Sorry, we're unable to hear Ms. Matavidad. Um maybe we should go back. Okay. Then next person that I have, I believe is in person because I saw their name on the signup sheet. So we're gonna move to the next person, which is Beth Reed.

   Beth Reed

   3:47:07Not supposed to end the question.

   StarkeyChair

   3:47:10state your

   Beth Reed

   3:47:11go

   StarkeyChair

   3:47:11ahead.

   Beth Reed

   3:47:12Yes, my name is Beth Reed. My address is [address removed], and I have been sworn in. Thank you for for this opportunity to speak about this change in zoning. I would like to encourage you to vote against this. My reasons are that this is a beautiful master plan community, and I do want to take the time to applaud the other neighbors that have come out to speak against this. In spite of what the attorney for the applicant

   3:47:42has said, we do care about our community and we do want to be a pro want to see it be preserved. Um, I am concerned about the the impact to our schools, the impact to our traffic. And the impact to our quality of life. So again, I would urge you to vote against this change in zoning. And thank you for the time.

   StarkeyChair

   3:48:08Right, the next two who signed up are not on WebEx, so we'll jump to the next one. Uh Juan Sanchez.

   3:48:20Hold on just a moment. Oh he is not on? Oh, okay, sorry. Hold on just a moment while we find our the next person. All right, thank you. Um we're going to go down to Ali Sufi? If that's the way it is pronounced. If you could state your name and address for the record and whether or not you have been sworn.

   3:48:47All right. Just was informed that Ms. Sufi dropped off, so we will go to the next person, which is Matt Suarez.

   Matt Suarez

   3:48:57Yes, Matthew Suarez. Uh Matthew Suarez, [address removed]. Uh, and I have been sworn in. Uh, Madam Chair, honorable members of the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners, my parents and I would like to request that the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners deny the DD SR56 LLC and Walmart Stores East LP care of stock development

   3:49:27LLC developer request to reason. Some seven oats. parcel S19 for Mart multifamily mixed use development. Based on our d denial the basis of our denial request. Has been issued to you via written correspondence on Sunday, January 2nd. Twenty twenty two. and via written correspondence and exhibit attachments on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022, and

   3:49:57Monday, January 10th, 2022. We would like to request a member of the Board of County Commissioners to make a movement during this public hearing to enter these issued forms of correspondence and exhibit item attachments. into the record relating to the hearing. Among these communications Uh we have outlined and provided supporting documentation relating to the multiple items of concern relating to the developer's rezoning proposal and reasoning

   3:50:28for the Pasco County BCC to deny its proposal. Given the time constraint of this public comment, we would like to uh note a few items relating to these communications. Items of note include the following. The Pasco County Planning and Development Department has identified the future land use and economic development consistency analysis and a public reliance statement that the developers proposed. Uh proposed use and planned development for parcel S nineteen does not comply

   3:51:01uh does not comply uh with With numerous provisions of the future land use and economic development uh codes. of the Pasco County Comprehensive Plan. Such noncompliance spans from the proposed development consuming county services at a higher rate than it would contribute to the county in revenue to imposing undue burdens in the on the Seven Oaks community d uh on on the Seven Oaks community development districts. common elements, the public amenities, public facilities and

   3:51:31utilities and infrastructure that were not accounted for in the Seven Oaks Master Plan Unit Development Plan. Clauses A. A point three E, and A. F of the Pasco County Land Development Code, provision four zero seven. point two, identify that variance request shall not be granted if such variance allows the expansion of establish or exta or establishment Of a use In a zone or district where such use is not permitted by the P L

   3:52:01D C On a personal level of appeal to board members, I would like to identify I that I commend the county's desire to embrace the concept of vertically integrated fixed use structure. Thank

   StarkeyChair

   3:52:14you.

   Matt Suarez

   3:52:14Okay.

   StarkeyChair

   3:52:16Thank you very much. No problem

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   3:52:18chairman. He did ask for his items to be received and filed.

   StarkeyChair

   3:52:22Yeah, um Mr. Sant Mr. Sanchez, correct? Swarez. I'm sorry. Oh, we're way down here. Okay. Um What items did you want us to receive, sir?

   Fitzpatrick

   3:52:34I've it was an email motion to receive and file the email.

   StarkeyChair

   3:52:37Oh it was

   Matt Suarez

   3:52:40Am I still available? Steve, I have it. Okay. Well

   StarkeyChair

   3:52:45um

   Matt Suarez

   3:52:46I I can restate that if you would like me to.

   StarkeyChair

   3:52:49No, um I'll just take a motion to receive and a second. She made a motion. Do we have a second? Second. Um all in favor, aye. No. And then will someone tell us what this is, please?

   MarianoVice Chair

   3:53:02Are they going to print it up?

   StarkeyChair

   3:53:04Print it out? No. I think it was an email.

   MarianoVice Chair

   3:53:06What's good receiving file? We're looking at it right now.

   StarkeyChair

   3:53:08Well, I think it came in an email. Well, can you print it? Print it or send it to everyone in an email?

   3:53:16Well that's why you gotta bring something.

   3:53:20It sounds like it's a lot of stuff, so.

   MarianoVice Chair

   3:53:22I prefer to get in print.

   StarkeyChair

   3:53:24We've got

   MarianoVice Chair

   3:53:25time, we're waiting for everyone

   StarkeyChair

   3:53:26else to

   MarianoVice Chair

   3:53:26speak.

   StarkeyChair

   3:53:27Okay, who has it?

   3:53:30Um Mr. Suarez, how many pages is it?

   Matt Suarez

   3:53:35Yes, uh so there were uh three separate correspondents to exhibit items, uh, and I provided uh within the correspondence, I was told by uh County uh administrator's office uh that I needed to request a motion during the hearing in order to get the items filed for the record.

   StarkeyChair

   3:53:54All right, well we'll get a copy of what you said.

   Matt Suarez

   3:53:56Okay.

   StarkeyChair

   3:53:58No worries, we'll get a copy of what you said printed and distribute and we'll pass it along up here amongst the commissioners.

   Matt Suarez

   3:54:04Very well, thanks so much.

   StarkeyChair

   3:54:06And then we'll it'll be entered in the record.

   Matt Suarez

   3:54:08Thank you so much.

   StarkeyChair

   3:54:10Thank you. Oh this one has a good name.

   StarkeyChair

   3:54:15Well, um the next three that are on our list. See

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   3:54:20it from the email.

   StarkeyChair

   3:54:21Um are not in the queue. So we can go back. Um, and just to let you know that um Craig has rechecked all the ones that have were not in the queue. No one is left in the queue except including twelve, who was on the queue, but we couldn't hear. Um Ms. Hawkins dropped off. So one one we have left is number eighteen, which is Karina Natividad. So Ms. Mattavidad, you have been promoted. If you could state your name, address for the record, and whether or not you have been sworn to

   StarkeyChair

   3:54:55Question on your own email down on

   3:54:59Okay. Where does it say in person then? I mean it's reversive to translate that. Okay. All right. I guess we are moving on then. We have um folks here in person. So um we'll we will call the first five names. And we'll ask you to line up. Thank you.

   StarkeyChair

   3:55:18All right, so um First I'm gonna apologize for if I say your name incorrectly. And I believe it's uh John uh Tomsu. Tomsu. And John has requested extra time. Yes. Five minutes. Five minutes. Okay. And then followed um Joan Morgan. And Patrick Is it mullen? Okay. Do you need a clip

   StarkeyChair

   3:55:42to put that on there? 'Cause I've got one right here if you want it. John, do you want this?

   StarkeyChair

   3:55:49John, do you want to aim find your clip?

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   3:55:52Uh no, it was actually I was just making sure that what they have on here matches what I have, because theirs are prettier than mine.

   Unidentified speakerVoice I

   3:55:59My kids will call colour this one

   StarkeyChair

   3:56:02other one. Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   3:56:09And before I begin, may I what's the technical term? What's over to your file?

   StarkeyChair

   3:56:13I can all in favor? Aye. Aye. All opposed? Date, um what kind of ditties do you have over there?

   3:56:21Oh, I'm not on my top down.

   3:56:36This isn't good for my diet. Oh you're good to go.

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   3:56:39Okay, thank you. Sorry, uh John Tomsu. [address removed]. Uh [address removed]. Um I represent the uh S Southern Oak's Resident Council.

   StarkeyChair

   3:56:52And

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   3:56:52have you

   StarkeyChair

   3:56:53been sworn?

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   3:56:53And I have been sworn.

   StarkeyChair

   3:56:54Thank you, sir. Go ahead. Yes, present. Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   3:56:58So uh the Seven Oaks Master Plan community, um, it's not just words, it has meaning. It's a reason why most of the residents have moved to this area, uh, both homeowners or property owners uh and renters. Um the key thing here is to note that uh Departelo Development actually advertises it on their website. It's noted as uh Bullet Point Three, located at the entrance of Seven Oaks, a 2,000 acre award-winning master plan community. Similar that the apartments that are in Seven Oaks also call out Tampa's

   3:57:28most prestigious master plan community. The fact that commissioners from the past uh came up with this plan along with the planning commissions from the past and developed a you know a great master plan unit development in order for us to follow. And it's you know kind of your jobs to keep that going forward, obviously taking into account. Taken into account sometimes there are needs for changes. And that's what Mr. Two was referring to earlier, whenever we spoke about the need for loom conversions and how it's not necessarily a right. And I believe the Planning Commission agrees with

   3:57:59that. But there are times whenever it's needed. So whenever there are cases where you have maybe commercial entitlement or sorry, uh retail entitlement. Sorry, multifamily entitlements that need to be rezoned for commercial uh or similar, um, then those are available. Uh I will leave it up to the staff um to correct some of Mr. Two's earlier statements um later on in the presentation related to uh the events that happened on uh December twenty-eighth. Uh for the Planning Commission. Uh Overall, the basics, 1726,

   3:58:30a lot of this stuff is the stuff that you know Mr. 2 has already or the applicant has already proposed. It's all the facts and figures associated with the MPUD. You'll notice the color coding up of the north, the northwest, and that's the sections for N2A, N2B, and N3. And that totals 24.85 acres. We'll notice that if they were to use the maximum density, which is twenty four eight units per acre, that the parcels would accommodate four hundred and forty eight units.

   3:58:58Looking at the multifamily lots, again already zoned, N2A, N2B, and N3. This would accommodate 320 units easily with parking, the 320 units that are being proposed for this rezoning. It's perfect for nearby employers. You have the Senior Living Center across the street, Bay Air Hospital is almost finished, and then the car dealerships, including the Mitsubishi that's being developed right now. Uh in addition to easy access to I seventy five, uh Bruce B. Downs and Fifty four. Um the two commercial zones

   3:59:28that are have already been addressed, I'll skip past that. And here we're going to talk about the rezoning opposition. So S19, it's just the wrong location for this type of project. 1220 signatures. That's what I just uh provided for filing. Support the opposition of the rezoning of parcel S19. I call out the competent substantial evidence and the definition of it being the basis of fact from which the fact at issue can reasonably be inferred. And that's because citizen testimony in

   3:59:58a zoning manner is perfectly permissible and constituents constitutes substantial competent evidence. This really bakes down to um, you know, you've heard a lot of testimonies. me already these are people that live in the area these are subject matter experts so they're not relying on formulas or some type of uh you know uh manual like the ITE they're actually telling you what their personal experiences are with interacting inside the community um from both the traffic and uh communities and schools perspective Uh incompatibility in a previous meeting

   4:00:28on uh nine nine twenty twenty-one. Um It was brought up that multi-use is already constructed directly across from SR-56. So um across the street from SR-56 is the enclave. And unfortunately that's comparing apples to oranges. The reference site isn't part of the Seven Oaks MPUD. It has its own plan, and it's not part of this much larger ecosystem of the community. Um So here we just point out that it just doesn't fit. Uh if we stop breaking the rules and follow what the the code says, uh parks

   4:00:59would be 3.2 acres, parking 2.35, and the roads and aisles would be 0.6. Um that comes out to a so suitable building. uh acreage of 4.45 acres. Um and that just doesn't fit. And then the 86,000 square feet, I just want to bring up, you know, we keep we keep moving the the changing the playing field, right? We keep saying, well, it's 60,000 or 25,000. The MPUD calls out 86,000 square feet and that's what we're supposed to be like doing comparisons towards, not what we think that the 60,000 would be.

   4:01:30Um

   4:01:32So from the parking perspective, uh we're showing that there was a 15% reduction, and that was because uh it's close to public transportation. However, public transportation isn't used except by 0.4% of the population. Um 90 degree parking was a concern that was raised by the Planning Commission and should be taken into account. Thank you.

   StarkeyChair

   4:01:55Wait a minute, what you have five minutes. So you have if you could put them on a timer for two more minutes. That

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   4:02:01was five. That

   StarkeyChair

   4:02:02was

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   4:02:02five?

   4:02:05Was it five?

   4:02:09It went by so quick guys. You were

   StarkeyChair

   4:02:12done. You were rolling along, but that's what stuff says in five.

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   4:02:16Oh I was skipping

   StarkeyChair

   4:02:16slides and everything. I'm pretty sure we gave John five. And you're saying that was seven minutes? I'm getting a I'm getting a now

   StarkeyChair

   4:02:24that

   4:02:24it was five minutes. It was five. That was five minutes.

   MarianoVice Chair

   4:02:28Okay. Let's go that it was three. Let's give them two more.

   StarkeyChair

   4:02:31Well, you cannot talk. From out there. That's why we have two bailiffs here, first of all. Um, we'll give you two more minutes.

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   4:02:39Okay. Thank you. Uh

   Chelsea Waller Dothri

   4:02:40back to the last one.

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   4:02:44I I felt like I'd, you know, prepped enough of this that it I was way off. I was like three minutes and twenty

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   4:02:50five.

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   4:02:50Okay, ready. So on the uh average of 3.2 people per household, and that's using uh data.gov, um the apartment's population could reach a total of uh 1,024 uh residents, um, crowded in only 10 acres. Uh, that shows a density of 65,536 people per square mile, uh, versus Pasco's two hundred seven hundred and two people per square mile. Um the key here is that the 302 320 units on 10 acres really exceeds the uh the density um of the max,

   4:03:21which is 24 units per acre, uh by 33%.

   4:03:26Uh One point that I wanna that I think is really key here and it was inside the memorandum. Um They've called out that there's no additional parking required for retail office, uh, for the retail office component of this project. So it was started out at 320, then it was 320 plus commercial, but there was never any adjustment to the parking to increase it. There was the addition of the garage, but that doesn't really bring in more volume. And right now I think it's being planned as only a two-story garage. Um, it would be even weirder if it was, you know, three stories. Um, but the key there is that no additional additional

   4:03:56parking was planned for uh for this project. And then the other topic was, you know, well, where does that overflow go? So if there's no uh accounting for uh visitors, there's no accounting for people that actually use the retail services, uh, and you're limited on the number of spaces uh based off the 15% reduction, that means that all of your overflow is gonna end up going to Sam's Club. And that's not fair to that property owner. Um

   4:04:21Yeah, and then the last thing is the trip study does an equal traffic analysis. I brought this up in previous meetings. Um, there really hasn't been a traffic analysis. There haven't been people throwing out um those monitoring devices with the double strips uh to capture speed and uh quantity of traffic that's going through there. So I know you hear a lot of residents complain um you know stating that there's traffic's gonna be a nightmare. Um, and we'll have some more residents that talk to that fact. Uh but the fact Is there hasn't been a traffic analysis, it's always fallen down to just a math formula from the ITE manual that isn't applicable. Thank

   4:04:52you.

   StarkeyChair

   4:04:52Okay. Thank you very much.

   StarkeyChair

   4:04:58The next one was Joan Morgan, followed by Patrick Mullen.

   4:05:04Yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice J

   4:05:06That's my slides. Uh if I can connect.

   StarkeyChair

   4:05:10Is Joan here? Yeah. But it was just in

   Unidentified speakerVoice J

   4:05:12order. We can change it. We can change it either way.

   StarkeyChair

   4:05:15It's all right. It it just Joan doesn't mind. We'll just have him come up and then she can come up. But um what uh hang on a second. Will you call

   StarkeyChair

   4:05:23the next three names, please, so they can get behind? Yep. Joan Morgan, Patrick Mullen, Gary Lemberg.

   Moore

   4:05:31She said he could go up because she said you couldn't go up.

   StarkeyChair

   4:05:33Yeah, yeah,

   StarkeyChair

   4:05:33I

   4:05:34want

   4:05:34you to come on up, but we're gonna have people line up behind you.

   4:05:40No, this is the public speaking. No, no, no. They've got a Oh, I don't know. They but that's fine. They can roll along th they can do it like this if they want. So Line up and if someone needs to get in out of why is there no one standing behind him?

   4:05:59Well, you call the next slide names. I don't think it matters what their presentation. Yeah, well they can line up in the order that they want. Yes. Okay. I don't know what that order is in.

   Unidentified speakerVoice J

   4:06:08All right.

   StarkeyChair

   4:06:08Well, okay. We will I'm gonna check you off when you come up so that you stay in your order.

   Unidentified speakerVoice J

   4:06:13Okay, great. Thank you. Okay. Good afternoon, commissioners. Uh my name's Alan Lou. I leave in [address removed]. And um I appreciate the opportunities for you to Mm-hmm. Oh, I have been sworn in. So uh today I'm gonna talk about traffic, impact, and access. There's estimated 640 vehicles will be added to the neighborhood traffic. Uh leaving home in the morning, you have to reach State Road 56 or Bruce B. Down Boulevard to get to a major inter a major highway. Now, that being said, the current proposal complex will have three main ways

   4:06:44to exit. The first way is to use the two uh single lane exit there that has no traffic lights, cutting through two lanes of oncoming traffic, make a left turn. Now uh merge onto Thous Pinal Lane. As you can see the way that that that curve the road is curved, you really can see the oncoming traffic as well as the the vegetations right there. So there's there with the 650 uh 40 vehicles being added, you're gonna be sitting there for hours before you can get out of there. The second way to exit is almost exactly the same thing. So to exit

   4:07:14there, except you make a left, you make a right. So go to the roundabout, come back down. But again, same exit, single lane, no traffic signal. You'd be sitting there for a long time. The last way to exit. which is going through the Samsclop uh parking lot or cutting through the exact main entrance in front of Samsclop where there's so much uh pedestrian uh traffics during the day or during the afternoon hours. So Uh there's a major traffic and uh pedestrian safety concerns. Once you pass the SAMS Club, there

   4:07:44is the uh discovery point. It's one of the two main daycares within the community, which people pass through uh picking up kids, dropping off kids there over time. Uh there's there's a very likely not likelihood, but it's a possible for you know us to get on the six o'clock news that Um somebody get, you know, mom and baby get hit during during the pickup and drop off and have one of those spatial incidents. You don't want that to be on the news. Once you get through the SAMS Club, um

   4:08:15The on the way back in the afternoon you'll see uh there's a two left turn lane going to the main entrance of Going to the main entrance of Seven Oaks, those two left turn line will probably be overwhelmed with 640 vehicles added, spill traffic all over State Road 56. Therefore, cost the same traffic jam situation similar to the diverging diamond that you have already aware. And um uh so that entrance will probably need to be redesigned, same as the Summergate entrance right there. All

   4:08:46you can do is take a right turn. There's no left turn line into uh Bruce B. Down. So that that intercession won't need to be re Um uh that intersection will need to be redesigned as well. So lastly there's no traffic impact study. Dun Jong has already mentioned mathematical formula cannot really determine how the road will be used, just like what I already told you with the pedestrian concerns. the pickup drop-off daycare cancer and the farther up the road, the element the elementary school uh in Mystic

   4:09:16Oaks. So the bottom line here is by placing it right at the entrance of Seven Oaks, uh, this is a major choke point for the This is a major choke point for the access.

   StarkeyChair

   4:09:26Hi. Thank you very much.

   Unidentified speakerVoice J

   4:09:27Thank you. That was

   StarkeyChair

   4:09:29I don't I didn't catch your name to make sure I got it on.

   Unidentified speakerVoice J

   4:09:30My name is Alan Lu. I already signed up on the

   StarkeyChair

   4:09:34Yeah, we're just gonna click you off. Do you think that'll

   Unidentified speakerVoice J

   4:09:36be

   StarkeyChair

   4:09:36a number? Yep,

   Kathy Sierra

   4:09:37that's it. Okay.

   4:09:41So my s right. So my speech wanted to say good afternoon, but yeah, it's good evening. Uh My name is Kathy Sierra and I'm at [address removed]. Uh [address removed] and I have been sworn in. Um on April 29th, 2020, Height Design stated the following. Oh wait, I wanted to. to my clicker. They stated the following: developing this subject property as multifamily will create a more vibrant

   4:10:11place without the need for an automobile. As someone who was born in Brooklyn, I can tell you that Seven Oaks is definitely far from a community that is need without an automobile. I want to share with you an experience I recently had. On October 27th, I woke up to the most beautiful day. It is Florida. I decided I want to go see some cows. Cows. You know, there are a few cow pastures just about a mile east on 56 from Seven

   4:10:41Oaks. So I get on my bike. After crossing twenty lanes of traffic. I'm now on my way heading east on 56. After seeing some cows, I'm now on my way back home. I need to pass an entrance to Publix on 56. There's a crosswalk. I slow down and I see a car coming. The driver is not paying attention in my direction and has realized there are zero cars coming and floors it to get on to 56. I nearly

   4:11:12lost my life that moment. I braked so hard that I flew over the handlebars of my bike, Ultimately I was fine, but my bike, however, was not. The point of the story here is that drivers are not paying attention to see if there are people walking or biking. The roads and streets belong solely to the cars. They're looking in one direction and one direction only. If in walkable and bikeable areas, drivers are on high alert. They look both

   4:11:42ways, left and right, before merging onto a roadway. That just does not happen here in this area. Height Design wants us to believe that Seven Oaks area is walkable. However, this is the real truth. I'm the resident of this new multifamily property. I decide I want to go shopping at Wiregrass, followed by Publix, and then get some medication at CVS. They're all like right across the street from one another. But when I finally get back home, I've crossed 38 lanes of traffic. Thirty

   4:12:12eight. One more topic. Public transportation. There's a bus stop located on State Road 56, just outside Parcel S19. The bus stop is not even listed on the Pasco County Public Transportation website, gopasco.com. In addition, two bus drivers stated that they have not picked up passengers from this location in more than two months. Public transportation in Pasco is just really lacking. I've lived in apartments my h

   4:12:42in New York. Apartments are a necessity and I want to make it very clear, I'm not against apartments. What I am against is the location as to where you're trying to place these apartments. It's just not the right location and it just doesn't fit. So I kindly ask you to seriously take into consideration the denial of this motion. Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice K

   4:13:02A new question? Yeah, I did. Okay, next.

   Kathy Sierra

   4:13:05This is Jonah. Hi.

   Unidentified speakerVoice K

   4:13:06I'm Joan Morgan. I live at [address removed], and I have been sworn in. Let's

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   4:13:15see

   Unidentified speakerVoice K

   4:13:15if I

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   4:13:16can get this.

   Unidentified speakerVoice K

   4:13:17Uh So we're talking about putting more apartments in Pasco to accommodate Hillsboro County. Because we have over half a million residents in Pasco, but only 19% of them live and work here. They go elsewhere. Pasco is suburban, gives us lower rents, lower taxes, more space, better schools, less crime. Hillsboro is more urban. We have higher pacing jobs. That's why people

   4:13:47go there. We don't have higher pacing paying jobs here. They have more cultural events. They have easy access from Pasco and Hillsboro to get in between both. So there's no stopping anyone from leaving here. So we have more demand for our county services by putting the apartments here, but lower family incomes, lower sales tax revenue here, and less commercial tax generating land if we donate it all to apartments to accommodate Hillsboro

   4:14:17count people or Hillsborough workers.

   4:14:23Pasco speaks. There was a community survey, people asking, or the government asking Pasco, what how did you feel about job growth? And the majority, 71% of our residents said it's too slow. There's not enough of it. Same thing with retail growth. 72% of the respondents said there's not enough retail growth. There's not enough store growth in our area. And when asked about population growth, 72% there's

   4:14:54said there's too much. So we need to Stick with creating more job opportunities and using our land for job opportunities. County needs to recognize the high priority retaining employment generating land. Apartments don't generate employment. We can keep going. You got another minute. Thank you. Um, we have a current unemployment rate of

   4:15:24five percent and a median household income of fifty-three thousand. I don't understand how the developer thinks that they can target Households with an income of $133,000 a year to live in apartments in Sam's parking lot. Maybe they'll give a free SAMS membership when you sign up. Um commercial depart commercial land is in high demand in Pasco County. Our business applications are up 22%.

   4:15:55Our commercial need is up over 40% year over year. And our land generates more revenue per acre than apartments. Hillsboro is moving their people to Pasco to live. But our apartments are consuming our land that's usable for businesses. And that's what we need more of now. So we need to preserve commercial land. There you go. Thank you. Thank you.

   StarkeyChair

   4:16:27Uh motion to receive. Guys.

   MarianoVice Chair

   4:16:30Move received and file. Thank you.

   StarkeyChair

   4:16:33All in favor? Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   4:16:37Hard copy of the presentations, the entire presentation. Um, I

   StarkeyChair

   4:16:42have your name and address, please.

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   4:16:44Patrick Mullen. [address removed]. Um and

   StarkeyChair

   4:16:51have you been sworn for the record?

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   4:16:52I have been sworn that.

   StarkeyChair

   4:16:54Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   4:16:56Uh this is gonna be real fast because I got a lot of stuff. So hang in there with me. You guys have a tough job. I wouldn't want it. There's a lot of stuff in terms of zoning considerations you need to look at. Is this a suitable site? This is a site that requires a lot of alteration. What effect does it have on public improvements in the area? Are the public services, water, and electricity adequate? And

   4:17:27does the existing zoning support and protect the comprehensive plan and the current community? Lots of other considerations, but we need to maintain the viability of the uh LDC, the residential character of Wesley Chapel, and as you heard before, not grant variances that allow the expansion of use that wasn't intended there, not

   4:17:58permitted by the LDC. Results in an increase in density, which we've already mentioned, and is inconsistent with a comprehensive planning. And one of the things that we were that puzzled us in our research, says there even going back to September 9th, the developer suggested that or stated that the proposal suggests that because aluminum trade is allowed, it is permitted to

   4:18:28occur by right. That's not true. And that's something McTari actually said in that September meeting. It

   StarkeyChair

   4:18:38does not occur by right. I'm sorry, sir, you have to be at the mic or we can't pick it up for the record. And that's what you really want is the record to hear you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   4:18:46Well that's true. I'm sorry. Um The loom is only one factor to consider. Uh And in our research we found out that The land use equivalency matrix in LUM are not specifically defined in VLEC or the comprehensive plan. Spe awesome.

   4:19:11S this is a poster child for spot zoning. I'll leave it at that. Here are the legal citations for it. Speaking of cost analysis, this was the original one which did not work. Then came the second cost of analysis because it had been remanded back to the Planning Commission and was still incorrect, did

   4:19:42not meet the requirements of comprehensive plan. We ran a corrected version of that over the weekend, and we find that the project still does not meet the comprehensive plan directive of providing more revenue than costs and services. In summary, the demand

   StarkeyChair

   4:20:03Ah, thank you very much. Nope, that's it.

   4:20:09It's in the wrong place and I'm important. Sir, you're done. These three Thank you very much. And the next person comes up. And here comes the bailiff.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   4:20:19Okay, you're done.

   StarkeyChair

   4:20:20And there you go. But you did a great job. Do you you must do this for a living? Huh? Is he a attorney or a

   Unidentified speakerVoice M

   4:20:28try to help you out there?

   StarkeyChair

   4:20:31And you are like the spitting I keep I kept looking at you going, Does J D have an older brother that he doesn't know about?

   Unidentified speakerVoice M

   4:20:39Who are you talking about?

   StarkeyChair

   4:20:40Uh a friend of ours,

   Unidentified speakerVoice M

   4:20:42uh

   StarkeyChair

   4:20:42JD Porter. You look

   Unidentified speakerVoice M

   4:20:44happy family. Yeah, but he's really rich. Well hopefully you are too. And I don't fit that category whatsoever.

   4:20:55Um Carrie Lindbergh and uh [address removed]. And I have been sworn. Uh I am uh representing the Uh as the president of the Seven Oaks H O A. And uh thank you for all your service. Um I I wanna kinda approach this from a little you you've heard all the nuts and bolts and you've heard all the things about traffic and all And that all of it's true and and people have spoken very well and very concisely and And there's a lot of concerns. I

   4:21:25can tell you that I kinda wanna look at this from a M maybe more holistic point. From the homeowner. Um First of all uh I'm I I'm I'm talking and representing two thousand Homores. That's a lot. If I understand it, I think Seven Oaks is something like the third largest Um, maybe the third largest population s area in Pasco County, I think. But

   4:21:57I have not w talked to one homeowner over these past several months. Who has been in favor of this project whatsoever? And I know that I speak for the rest of our board. And our board has spoken very strongly. that they are definitely against this project. Part of it is because There's a there's a point of integrity here. And when we were looking, when my wife and I first came

   4:22:27down to look at properties uh 16 years ago. One of the things that we that was important to us and and and is important to any community is Curb appeal. Your repeal's important. And we loved the curve appeal of seven oaks. It was great. And part of the other part was the fact that there was a uh a plan in place. It was a we we like the fact that there's a plan in place. And part of that plan was that The outer perimeter Uh

   4:22:58seven O's. was where commercial properties would be built. And that's the way it's always gone. Well, I got one minute. It does go quick.

   StarkeyChair

   4:23:08I know.

   Unidentified speakerVoice M

   4:23:08I know. I have to tell you it's really quick 'cause I'm I'm a preacher. So And that's when you say and in closing, which means absolutely nothing. But um But it was that that's where all the commercial was supposed to end and only resid residential would be only In the interior Of seven oaks. Not on the exterior, not on the surroundings. And so Uh we just don't wanna see that changed. That's the

   4:23:38way it was planned, that's the way it should be. Those things should not change. And I think it's a matter of integrity what we were told. as homeowners, prospective homeowners, now would no longer be. That's just not right. And quickly Uh I I just like to know uh the the menatees that uh the one man showed of all the property and and I'm sure they're great builders. But we have not seen one picture.

   4:24:07And I'm gone.

   StarkeyChair

   4:24:10Next, is there anyone else who wishes to speak? Okay, thank you very much. Please line up.

   4:24:18No, you're next, but I just want um if if you're gonna speak, we're just trying to Keep everything moving here today. It's been one of our longer meetings.

   Jack Christensen

   4:24:29My name is Jack Christensen and I am the current president of the CDD. In Seven Oaks, I live at [address removed] in [address removed]. Like Gary spoke prior, I'd like to look at the holistic problem rather than getting into the nuts and bolts and the weeds of this presentation. We spent nearly two hours listening to those kinds of deliberations that you undertook and are undertaking. to uh Look at this new Fluensky project. Lazowski

   4:25:01project, W P D. None of those issues, or very few of those issues, are involved in this one. This is a very simple. This is a finished community. It had an MPUD where it said residents would live on the inside. Commercial ventures would be arranged on the outside. the uh plaintiffs in the in this case have indicated that there have been a number of amendments to the MPUD over the years. Yes, a brewery changed places with a fitness center. Years

   4:25:32ago, they came to the board and said, can we swap Crown said, can we swap out multifamily buildings for single dwellings? We now have Sable Point as single family buildings. Section, neighborhood in our community. Commercial for commercial, residential for residential. But never, never have we been asked to separate Commercial, very integrate commercial and residential. It appears to me whose interest is driving this? And while Sam Club And

   4:26:02Walmart have been good neighbors. And for 15 years, I've been a good member of Sam's Club. And I was here when all the heat was generated when Samskell came in. We don't want a big box store in the front of our community. But they made changes and they accommodated us and it's a beautiful building and we all worked there and we all shopped there. But they have let us down in the last 15 years. They have not found suitable commercial interests to fill those lots that they own. Fifteen

   4:26:32years to find it. I know there's been a change in buying and shopping in in this world. Big box stores are not as numerous. Online shopping, but there has to be in this world a lot of stores that can be built in this area to generate the revenue. Nothing has been said about the loss of revenue that we might incur. By switching it to apartments as opposed to residential businesses. They talked about $100,000 a year being guaranteed by the developer to fill the coffers. Uh

   4:27:03I haven't seen the the statistics on that. But it's a very simple decision. It's hard and it's simple. Stay with the plan. We like stock as a developer. Maybe over in the Porter farm area, Porter family area, or somewhere else in Pasco County. Just not here in Seven Oaks. Thank you.

   StarkeyChair

   4:27:26Thank you very much. And we have three people, three more people signed up. Uh um

   4:27:34So if you are signed up to speak, you need to be in line. And if you wanna speak and you're not signed Chelsea that's Chelsea. Yes, that's Chelsea. If uh anyone else wants to speak they need to line up behind Chelsea or that's gonna be the end of the the public discussion. Thank you.

   Legrand Jones

   4:27:52My name is Legrand Jones. My address is [address removed] in [address removed]. I am sworn in. Madam Chair, I have recently spoken with many neighbors on my street in Seven Oaks concerning the proposed residential apartments on parcel S seven nineteen. I asked them first if they see any value to the neighborhood of the proposed apartments, and second, if they approved the proposed

   4:28:22zoning change. Their answers, as well as my own, were unanimously no. I agree with the many valid reasons already presented here uh today by other Seven Oaks residents opposing the rezoning and concluding that an apartment building on parcel S nineteen is a bad idea. Um Their rationale was expressed uh more vividly and eloquently than I ever could have done. Uh so without repetition I will simply say I support and agree with

   4:28:52their Reasons. When my family decided to move to Seven Oaks about six years ago, We were quite favorably impressed and influenced by the excellent master plan of the neighborhood. including proximity of existing professional offices and retail businesses. and the zoning for future professional offices and retail spaces in well planned locations. we relied on the durability of the award winning master plan when purchasing

   4:29:22our home. I find no value to my family or to the neighborhood in general and rezoning to allow an apartment building on parcel S nineteen. I wish the applicant success in its proposed apartment project, but not on parcel S nineteen. instead in another location that is properly zoned for it. Accordingly, honourable commissioners, I urge the Board to deny this rezoning application. I thank you all.

   StarkeyChair

   4:29:51Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice N

   4:29:57Hello, my name is Lauren O'Donnell. I reside at [address removed]. I have been sworn in. So I am here today to ask you to deny the rezoning or the amendment to the master plan. Um, I want to focus more on the quality of life for this piece. Um, we've talked about the schools. As a parent, if I want to change schools for my child. And you look at the frozen list from this year and The projected

   4:30:28next year. All of the local elementary schools, the middle schools, they're full. They're frozen. I cannot use that for school of choice for my children. So that includes double branch, wire grass, sandpine, Um seven oaks. And with the middle schools, they're now including Cyprus, including the the high school as well. So I think as we live in the area, we should have some choices available to us and the schools

   4:30:59are full. Um in terms of transportation, we've seen the logistics. nightmare that they've kind of been challenged with. um not having bus drivers. Um and in in terms of walkability, I am a I bike, I run, and I would never cross fifty-six in Bruce B Downs. Even with my lights and my reflective gear. I'd choose another route. It's not walkable. It's not safe. I mean I guess it is walkable in terms of

   4:31:28distance. It's not safe. Um so in terms of quality of life. I really think this project should be denied. Thank you for your time. Thank you. And Chelsea,

   StarkeyChair

   4:31:38our last speaker.

   Chelsea Waller Dothri

   4:31:39Last but not least.

   4:31:43All right, good evening everyone. Chelsea Waller Dothard with Waller Law on behalf of the Seven Oak CDD who are against this project. I have been sworn. My address is 38038 Meridian Avenue, Dade City, Florida. Um The applicant's proposal, and I've requested eight minutes. So you've got it. Okay. Okay. The applicant's proposal could be a beautiful project, but as everyone else has said here, just not on parcel S19. Vertical mixed use.

   4:32:13Such as this is ideal in high dense areas, South Tampa, Orlando, like we've seen in their sample. But whether the project is beautiful isn't the standard you're here to evaluate. Today you all must have determined whether this project is right for parcel S19 pursuant to Pasco County's land codes. And the answer is no. I would request that the board receive four one page exhibits.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   4:32:38Second.

   Chelsea Waller Dothri

   4:32:39But all in favor? Aye. Opposed? Bye.

   4:32:46All right. Let's talk about compatibility. As you all know, in determining whether the applicant's proposed use is compatible pursuant to future land use objective 1.10, you all must consider the existing and approved development patterns, the existing proposed and anticipated transitions between land uses, the community characters, the consistency with the specific area plans. among other factors. Objective future land use 4.3, Pasco

   4:33:17County shall manage growth concurrent with the infrastructure necessary to protect, maintain, and enhance the Wesley Chapel community's unique character. Now if you will turn to exhibit one that I've handed you, that would be the large map here. As you can see, do you have it? I think I think that was supposed to be passed out to us.

   StarkeyChair

   4:33:39All right, thanks. Okay.

   Chelsea Waller Dothri

   4:33:42Go ahead. Um as you can see on this map and what the residents have spoken of, all of the commercial property is located on the exterior. Those are in gray. So all of the residential and the um multifamily, they're all together. It's clear and distinct separation between those two. This is the existing pattern and community character of 7-0 C D D. This thoughtful design provides a gradual transition

   4:34:12between the different land uses and helps minimize visual and noise impacts on different land uses. This also establishes the separate and distinct identities of the community with a clear separation between the residential and multifamily areas and then the commercial and the regional. Here it is. Now let's take a look at Exhibit 2. This is the zoomed-in aerial of S-19 and its surrounding parcels. S19 is outlined in yellow. As you can see, there are commercial and office buildings

   4:34:42on the parcels to the northwest, the north, The east and the south of S19. The approved apartments on this parcel would deviate from the established pattern of the MPUD by placing multifamily in the middle of commercial property. This is inconsistent and incompatible with the MPUD. As you may recall, back in 2018, the developer tried to rezone parcel S12 that was located directly next to the Seven Oaks Clubhouse. They tried to rezone that from recreational to office.

   4:35:13And this board back in 2018 denied that request in part because placing office use in the middle of a residential neighborhood was deemed incompatible. So the applicant's request here should be denied for the same reason. That placing apartments in the middle of commercial and office space is incompatible. Now let's talk about the other apartments in the community. And if you'll turn to exhibit three, I have some data on the surrounding apartments. If you look at the apartments that are within Seven Oaks, we have Windsor,

   4:35:43that's 240 apartments on 14.7 acres. If you look at Colonial Grand behind the brewery, that's 318 units on 20 acres. That particular project is two units less than the proposed project without any commercial, and that is double the amount of acreage than this uh projected uh proposed project. Now let's look at nearby apartments that are not within the Seven Oak C D. We've got Enclave across the street, 312 units on 43 acres. Uh Delano,

   4:36:14288 units on 19.12 acres. That's behind the BMW dealership. We've got Bunterra Park, 264 units on 26.30 acres. And the new apartments that were just approved. On Bruce Bowns, 248 apartments on 16 acres. So in determining whether this is compatible, the board must consider the existing and approved development patterns. The applicant's project is double the density of any apartment complex within Seven Oaks and over two and a half times

   4:36:44the density of other apartment complexes in the area, including the most recently approved complex on Bruce Bowns. Um Board had some discussion on on that and whether there were too many apartments. Um This is not in line this specific project and the density, it's not in line with the character of Wesley Chapel. Um it's more in line with the character of South Tampa or Orlando, where people are fleeing from because they want to be in Pasco County. They want that space. No one here wants that. It's

   4:37:16not the board's job to decide whether S19 should have an increased density or intensity. It's the board's job to decide if this parcel is compatible, and it is not. Um wanna touch on the variance it. Actually, let me skip forward to the economics.

   4:37:37At the first Planning Commission meeting, the county introduced the economic and fiscal impact analysis for the applicant's original proposal of 320 units versus the 86,000 square foot of commercial that is already designated for this parcel. At the second planning commission meeting, the applicant argued that S-19 was not fit for 86,000 square feet of commercial and that it was only suitable for 60,000 at most. Okay, I'm no mathematician, I'm just a lawyer. But how can the applicant argue that S nineteen cannot fit

   4:38:07more than sixty thousand square foot of commercial? But the applicant can fit 320 apartments. twenty thousand square feet of commercial, a three story parking garage, and a pool. So let me introduce exhibit four. That is the correct economic and fiscal impact analysis should be taken into consideration. The analysis has a proposed project versus 86,000 square foot of commercial. The benefits of 86,000 of commercial far outweigh the applicant's

   4:38:37proposed rezoning. The Pasco County has goals for employment, a comprehensive plan policy. Um one point four point four. Pasco County shall recognize the high priority of retaining employment generated land uses in appropriate and compatible locations within the county. And future land use 1.8.10. County shall ensure that adequate land and transportation capacity is available for present and future high-paying Employment generating land uses such as office, industrial, and employment

   4:39:07centered uses. So looking in that exhibit four. Eighty-six thousand square foot of commercial generates 174 jobs. The applicant's proposal proposes sixty-nine. We need jobs. Let's look at county revenue on that same exhibit. Future land use 1.8.7. Pasco County shall encourage development, which will contribute more to the county in revenue than it will consuming services. Again, the economic benefits for the existing commercial use far exceed S19's

   4:39:38existing use. Excuse me. Economic benefits for existing use far outweighs the proposal. Even if you use 60,000 square foot of commercial, that still outweighs the benefit of the proposed project. Everyone else did a great job hitting on the other points, but the bottom line is this is not compatible. We need jobs. We should deny this project. Thank you.

   StarkeyChair

   4:40:01All right, thank you. And now we will have um rebuttal from the team representing the applicant.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   4:40:11Madam Chairman, I just get this right. If the board has questions of staff, they probably should ask staff questions now. So you have an opportunity to rebut that too. Okay. Otherwise you're gonna be rebutting what staff said.

   Joel

   4:40:27I I appreciate that. I agree and I

   StarkeyChair

   4:40:29appreciate

   Joel

   4:40:30that.

   StarkeyChair

   4:40:30Thank you. I hit repeat, so it's gonna hit again. Sorry. Um Okay. Um I have some questions of staff. Did you wanna Jack, did you wanna have some

   MarianoVice Chair

   4:40:40I'm gonna say Chelsea just nailed exactly where I was going with my points. Okay, so what she said if staff can review about what she said. Good luck.

   StarkeyChair

   4:40:49All right, then I would um like to have Terry Pitos come up and I want to ask him about compatibility as our head planner.

   4:41:00I can't see if he's here because I think there's a big board in the way. I'm not sure we need that board, but

   4:41:12And um Yeah.

   Oakley

   4:41:20Thank you, Commissioner.

   4:41:25So I think the question is on compatibility. Yeah. And on what was just noted here with regard to compatibility. Um

   4:41:37There was a comparison that was made to parcel S12. And in that project, there was office that was proposed near the Seven Oaks clubhouse, if I recall correctly.

   4:41:54We'll speak a little bit closer. Right. So there was a comparison made to the S12 property in which there was Office proposed near to the Seven Oaks Clubhouse. Um, this, if I recall this project correctly, it got denied. Uh on the basis of office intruding into residential areas. So the there's a specific policy in the comprehensive plan, policy flu 1.6.5.c.3.

   4:42:26Which talks about the uh the inability of office to intrude within residential areas. This intrusion provision only exists for office. It does not exist in the reverse to prevent residential from intruding into commercial areas. In fact, it's actually part of the same gold flu policies, 1.6. 1.6.1, 162, 163, and 164 are talking

   4:42:57about uh commercial development and where it's appropriate within uh within the county. And in there there are certain provisions for infill development and that sort of thing that would preclude commercial development from doing strip commercial and that sort of That's that style of development, but there is not an intrusion provision as there is in 165. So you can't use 165, the concept of 165 against residential uh intrusion into

   4:43:27commercial areas. Additionally, we should point out that a number of the commercial future land use designations in the comprehensive plan. Include purposefully include residential components in them. The ROR future land use, for example, is res retail office residential. uh the calm flu has a multifamily component associated with it. Um so the the Employment Center future land use has a mandated mixture for multifamily

   4:43:58in it. So there is contemplation in the comprehensive plan to include residential within commercial areas or at least non-residential areas. Um so

   4:44:14That's what I think would say with regard to compatibility. Is multifamily a use that we see together with commercial and office uses? Yes, it is.

   MarianoVice Chair

   4:44:24Madam Chairman Mariano.

   StarkeyChair

   4:44:26Yeah, do you have a question?

   Oakley

   4:44:26Yeah,

   MarianoVice Chair

   4:44:27question Terry. So when a this MPUD is done. The whole master plan's put out. They've shown all the commercial on the outside. It's all shown to be that way. So the people are relying on that information as they buy, as they make the decision. You're good.

   4:44:46The multifilm is compatible. Even though it said it was not going to be

   Oakley

   4:44:50that way? Uh uh yes, uh as as land uses they are compatible with one another. But that's why there's the substantial modification review process. Uh and the process for rezoning for public hearing to discuss these matters openly. So the

   MarianoVice Chair

   4:45:07reliance that people have, they figure so many homes are gonna be built. So much commercial retail is gonna be built. And then with all that said, they figure, okay. This will take so much traffic. This will take so much tu p space in the schools. The schools are full. The traffic is massive. And I will tell you even when the diviv diverging diamonds. It's gonna be done, it's not done. And I look at your paperwork that would that Mr. Suarez sent over. Dated ten twelve twenty one. There's a recommendation for denial. before

   4:45:38they put the retail the component to go with it. Now We talked. And when I asked you why are we using sixty thousand square feet? For the commercial. using the Remy model versus the eighty six thousand

   4:45:57We wanted to look at it without any variances or anything else. Even though this property's been given on many variances. For extra intensity, et cetera. So you're letting one go higher. And you keep the other one lower. If this doesn't meet the Remy model based upon the eighty six, if that's the right number. Should this project be denied?

   Oakley

   4:46:16Well, the the thing is, as I mentioned in my presentation, that comparisons against the eighty-six thousand or the sixty thousand. Or uh hypotheticals to provide context. Uh to understand You know, how does a three hundred and twenty-unit apartment uh built development with twenty thousand square feet of commercial What would it stack up against? H the hypothetical. The thing about the hypothetical is that um you can scale that number up and down as much as you want. You

   4:46:47can make it eighty six thousand, seventy five thousand, a hundred and twenty thousand. whatnot, um, when when we looked at it, we said what's reasonable and feasible to fit on that property given the constraints of the existing infrastructure on the site, how much square footage was available for Uh developing a parking lot that would facilitate a f a feasible commercial use and noting that the area is, as I said, mostly one-story

   4:47:17uh commercial development. Uh and if we're going to fit commercial development in here, what's the max size that we think could potentially move in without attracting variances and modifications? And 60,000 was the was the conservative. uh fe reasonable and feasible feasible development. Now there is the argument that could be made.

   MarianoVice Chair

   4:47:39Let me let me just stop you there though. Why did you use back on this agenda item back from dated on October twelfth that Mr. Suarez sent over from the public hearing that was going forward, that you used eighty-six thousand. What made you switch from you le using a number of eighty-six thousand to sixty?

   Oakley

   4:47:5686,000 was the original uh entitlement number. And that was a straightforward analysis on what the actual entitlement was. Understand what it was. What made you switch? The the switch was that the eighty six thousand was likely over in over entitlement. as is common in in a number of these older MPUDs. And how many units

   MarianoVice Chair

   4:48:18would this apartment complex if you did not grant a series of exceptions? conditions that were being allowed, such as the parking, such as the uh tandem trailer parking. This increased number of density that you allowed to happen.

   Oakley

   4:48:32I think that

   MarianoVice Chair

   4:48:33why would why would you allow one to go up and the other one you shrink down?

   Oakley

   4:48:38With regard to the variances and the modifications, um uh the four that they were given in this case. Are common to a number of multifamily projects throughout, including the neighborhood parks. Um the on street parking facilities uh reductions. Uh uh. On site, excuse me, not on street, on-site parking uh facilities reductions uh to one point nine from two point two five. Um parking spaces

   4:49:08per unit to one point nine. That's a that's a standard uh reduction that's being given to a number of multifamily because our land development code is likely over parked. Based on the new uh studies that we have from from uh Okay.

   MarianoVice Chair

   4:49:24So you have reasons why you you're allowing those to happen. So based upon the same square footage. So we just had a press release this past week. And it talked about the Asturia Corporate Center. It's a project twenty-six million dollars, two hundred and thirty-five thousand square feet. Of flex industrial space. to meet the demands of the Pasco's rapidly growing sectors. Hundred percent leased out. Fully fully shot. All the jobs are there. You've got over two hundred and eighty six jobs they

   4:49:54say it's gonna bring in. 400 total jobs created over the life of the lease. Same square footage. If you allow three stories on this property can be done with this.

   StarkeyChair

   4:50:05Are you speaking of that light industrial?

   MarianoVice Chair

   4:50:07Yeah. Three stories. If you take sixty thousand square feet instead of doing one story like he said, you allow this to go three stories, which is probably less height than what's being proposed right now, you have triple the amount of economic impact that's gonna be in this project than you're quoting. So you're letting one project get the variances to get more density and you're hurting this project and limiting it even further than what it could actually get. That's why I have a problem with the setup.

   StarkeyChair

   4:50:35Do we have any vertical commercial in the county?

   Moore

   4:50:42Because

   StarkeyChair

   4:50:42horizontal

   Moore

   4:50:43projects are less

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   4:50:43expensive than vertical.

   Moore

   4:50:45Where? Yeah, we just went to an EDC event at one of our Or uh Can you I'm gonna say uh What's more? Oh,

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   4:50:56I don't know.

   Moore

   4:50:57We just went to an E D C event at one of our um County vertical office projects that we incentivized not too long ago.

   StarkeyChair

   4:51:05It's empty.

   Moore

   4:51:06Well we went to one. I was your question was ha are Are there any there? Yes. This one as well. So I since we're asked I guess we're going to staff, Mr. Steinsteiner, is what you said.

   StarkeyChair

   4:51:17But I don't think that's commercial. I think that's office.

   Moore

   4:51:21Yeah, off we c you can put office on this pro on this property.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   4:51:24But what I suggested is that that so the applicant has the ability to rebut

   Moore

   4:51:31Go ahead and ask the question.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   4:51:32Staff staff says and you obviously had said you had questions of staff, but staff go now. Okay.

   StarkeyChair

   4:51:39And I have another question. First of all I don't know if I've ever seen us do This is the first time I think I've ever heard Remy. in any project that I recall, we've ever had a Remy discussion. I didn't even know what it was, really. So um but let me ask you, because this is I'm also not familiar with Loom, if I'm saying that right. I really have not heard us use that. I know I I know it, but we don't it's not something we usually talk about. So let's understand again

   4:52:09what that is and sure why was one why was barbers approved and where was that.

   Oakley

   4:52:14Yeah, I

   StarkeyChair

   4:52:14can talk to that. What's going on and and I got an email from Some of the people here, what is Loom and where is it defined? So that's a good question.

   Oakley

   4:52:23So um I could talk to all three of those subjects uh or topics. Um I'll start with the Remy one and then I'll go into the uh The other conver Seven Oaks conversion that took place. uh recently and it kind of explained the loom in that context. Um so the Remy model is a is a dynamic forecasting and policy analysis tool. that can be variously referred to as an econometric model, an input output output model.

   4:52:54Or even a computable general equilibrium model. The model forecasts the future of a regional economy and it predicts the effects of that on that same economy when the user implements a change. REMU models have been used throughout the world for a wide range of topic areas, including economic development, the environment, energy, transportation, taxation, forecasting, and planning. Um so that's the definition that was included in the uh agenda memo. Uh which is basically taken from their website. Uh Remy's a third party fiscal impact analysis

   4:53:25firm. that is hired to do this kind of fiscal impact analysis work. So

   StarkeyChair

   4:53:31have have we ever approved or denied a project based on a Remy model in this county?

   Oakley

   4:53:38To to my knowledge, this is the first such exercise, at least recently.

   StarkeyChair

   4:53:44Okay, and w and what is a loom?

   Oakley

   4:53:47So the loom and and Brad Tippin can back me up here if I misstate anything, but a land use equivalency matrix is a tool that gets uh employed in MPUDs. It was the first uh implemented through DRIs and then when DRIs uh started to go away, things were being downloaded and into MPUDs. And the Loom was one such tool that was brought down into the MPUD level, into the zoning level. The Loom measures trip generation of different uses. It sets an

   4:54:17equivalency for, you know, how many square feet equals how much certain trip generation for a particular use based on the ITE. Um manual

   StarkeyChair

   4:54:28I mean,

   Oakley

   4:54:29Institute of Trans transportation. I'm just saying don't use acronyms

   StarkeyChair

   4:54:32here. So we all

   Oakley

   4:54:33Yeah, based on the ITE manual. Um so there's been studies done and the manual is basically a a big reference book that tells you you know, for this amount of square footage or this type of land use, you have this type of trip generation associated with it. You take that data, you put it into a table, and you create an equivalency that says X amount of square feet equals uh Y amount of residential units, and then you can uh tweak and adjust it as you go so that you

   4:55:03can establish Um a a neutral change so that you don't overwhelm your transportation system. So if you have, you know, 20,000 square feet of something and you want to change it into residential 20,000 square feet was going to generate a certain number of trips. When you change it to the residential, they're still going to be creating that certain number of the same certain number of trips. That's that's the concept of the land use equivalency matrix. Now, in in terms of the seven oaks,

   4:55:33the recent seven oaks conversion.

   4:55:38Sure.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   4:55:39Because this really takes going back to the old days. the the land use equivalency matrix was a feature of, as Terry said, DRIs, but What it was designed to do was it was a di designed for the local government not to have to go through the notice of proposed change процес. and send things up for state review. So developers got land use equivalency matrixes. approved in their DRIs,

   4:56:10And then you could swap uses out without ha telling the state That you were Making a change because they had already approved the lane is equivalent

   StarkeyChair

   4:56:20to

   4:56:20the easement.

   4:56:20Okay, so you get this amount and if you're staying within that amount, you don't have to get a different kind of thing. Yeah, th

   Oakley

   4:56:25th there's a trade that there's a a change that takes place that doesn't necessarily need to go through uh at our level public hearing processes.

   Fitzpatrick

   4:56:33And what you were tell explaining to me the other day is what the current

   4:56:39What the current zoning is right now would actually produce more trips on the road than what the new modification or new zoning would be. So the new zoning would create less trips traveled.

   StarkeyChair

   4:56:57Yeah,

   Oakley

   4:56:57I was

   StarkeyChair

   4:56:58I was gonna ask that question. I

   Oakley

   4:56:59wasn't

   StarkeyChair

   4:56:59sure if you were the one that

   Oakley

   4:57:00I think uh the applicant uh His consultant who ran the traffic analysis can probably answer that but better than I can. Um And but if I can speak to the uh comp the uh recent Seven Oaks conversion, um so that one. Uh as it was noted in what

   StarkeyChair

   4:57:18you were gonna speak to the way?

   Oakley

   4:57:20The the other land use equivalency conversion that took place that was mentioned earlier. I'm sorry? No, not the

   StarkeyChair

   4:57:26brewery.

   Oakley

   4:57:27The parcels N3, two A, and two B. I

   StarkeyChair

   4:57:30don't know what it was.

   Oakley

   4:57:31I'm gonna walk around. This is a map of Seven Oaks here, so I'm gonna point a few features out just to bring your attention to them. So I'm going to uh depart from the microphone a second.

   Moore

   4:57:44Well we're still asking you questions.

   StarkeyChair

   4:57:46Yeah. Well I asked him this question.

   Moore

   4:57:48Yeah. Yeah.

   StarkeyChair

   4:57:48And why don't you move the map back and then you don't you can stay at the mic. And um Yeah.

   Oakley

   4:57:57Sometimes it's convenient to have the old technology. Um so these are the yellow parcels up on this map are the N2. A N two B and N three parcels there on along I seven five. These parcels, if you notice on this map, there's a table here all the way to the side. Madam Madam Chair.

   MarianoVice Chair

   4:58:17The audience can't see anything that's going on here. We've got a picture that the gentleman had shown that would show the same map. Can we put that map on the screen and point to that?

   Oakley

   4:58:25Yeah, uh it's on one of my slides. Uh we could put the gentleman's slide up too. Um I'll continue, but uh they'll see they'll see the re there you go. Okay. So you'll see the the three

   4:58:42three yellow parcels here are N3, N2B, and N2A. And then you see these tables kind of here, I'm pointing using the screen, here and there, right? Those two tables identify primary and secondary uses for each of the parcels within the entirety of the MPUD. And for those three yellow parcels uh the primary and secondary uses that were assigned or allocated uh through

   4:59:12the through the approval process. We're uh commercial and multifamily. And so over the years, there has been land use equivalency exchanges between the primary and the secondary uses on those parcels. I think the most r recent prior to December of twenty twenty one uh was in November of twenty seventeen, if I if I recall the dates correctly. Um in which in November of twenty seventeen those three parcels

   4:59:43underwent a land use security exchange that converted m uh multifamily residential to more non-residential. And in December of 2021, they went, they they kind of slid back on the scale by 56%, converting the more mul uh the more commercial that they had previously done back into multifamily. And they did this using the the Loom.

   StarkeyChair

   5:00:06And who's they? When you say they.

   Oakley

   5:00:08The developer that was represented by uh Ms. Wilhe. In that case.

   StarkeyChair

   5:00:14Okay, so there

   Oakley

   5:00:15Yeah, so that's an example of how the land use equivalency matrix operates at an administrative level. between uses that are already approved on those parcels. In the case of parcel S nineteen, the primary and secondary uses identified in that table Um if you uh inspect it. and look at it closely, are commercial as the primary and office as the secondary. And so to put multifamily onto this property isn't a simple land use equivalency exchange. It's

   5:00:45an actual rezoning that takes place in order to allocate multifamily entitlement to a place that was where it wasn't previously and there enable it. So that's that's the purpose of this public.

   StarkeyChair

   5:00:58That's what makes this a little different than what Barbara went through.

   Oakley

   5:01:01Correct.

   Moore

   5:01:02Madam Chair.

   StarkeyChair

   5:01:03Yeah.

   Moore

   5:01:03Thank you. Appreciate it. Hmm. But Terry, just a couple yes or no Questions. Okay. I just don't I don't need explanations, just yes or no. Okay.

   5:01:16So if I refer to com the comprehensive plan policies F L U one point eight point one zero in ED one point six point two, preservation of capacity for employment generating uses in ED 1.4.4, limitation on the conversion of employment generating locations. Yes or no? Is it undisputed? that the request will reduce the employment generating entitlements Of the site from at least sixty thousand. I'll

   5:01:47use your number. To twenty thousand. And reduce jobs.

   Oakley

   5:01:52Yes.

   Moore

   5:01:53Okay.

   5:01:56Let me go on to my next question.

   StarkeyChair

   5:01:58Can I can

   Moore

   5:01:58I ask a question

   StarkeyChair

   5:01:59on your question?

   Moore

   5:02:00No, can I just keep going just for a minute? Do we have thanks.

   5:02:04So is the preservation of land for employment, is that a legitimate public purpose?

   Oakley

   5:02:09Yes.

   Moore

   5:02:10Okay.

   StarkeyChair

   5:02:15Yeah. Yeah. Some

   Moore

   5:02:15of these have already been answered, so I don't I wanna skip around a little bit.

   5:02:24Did staff conduct a service consumption and cost analysis? Okay. Did staff conduct any service conception cost analysis? The staff.

   5:02:37Did staff conduct any service consumption cost analysis? If you look at the comprehensive plan house policy one point eight point seven.

   Oakley

   5:02:44Yeah, we we did the Remy analysis.

   Moore

   5:02:46Did you do a cost and did you did you do what I said when I asked? It's it's a good thing.

   Oakley

   5:02:57OEG is the expert uh anti

   Moore

   5:03:00if staff during this

   Oakley

   5:03:01I personally did not. I personally did not.

   Moore

   5:03:08All right, we already went over that. Hold on one sec, I got one more.

   5:03:14Commissioner Mariano brought up some things I was gonna bring up as well. Um

   5:03:26Okay, yes or no, if you would please.

   5:03:30If this stays as retail or office, would it create any additional demands on school libraries or the park system? No. Great. That's all I have for now. Thanks.

   StarkeyChair

   5:03:40Okay, so following up on him, um and a question on What are those yellow spaces up there? What are those? What are the f primary and secondary uses in the yellow space?

   Oakley

   5:03:53So the the map itself, if you look at the legend, it says multifamily available. So those three parcels have as their secondary Land use. Approved land use in the MPUD as multifamily land use.

   StarkeyChair

   5:04:05And what's the other use?

   Oakley

   5:04:07Uh I think it's commercial.

   StarkeyChair

   5:04:08So if if there's a certain amount of commercial available in the whole place. And they're only using twenty I don't know, twenty thousand do we go by square feet? In the then some of that commercial can go to those spots right there? So we haven't lost it in the community. We might have moved it.

   Oakley

   5:04:30Yeah, the the entitlements are are basically moving around.

   StarkeyChair

   5:04:33So okay, so it's just a movement of So we haven't lost any jobs. Um What is the service analysis and I mean what I won't I uh we use Remy, what is there a difference or what's going on there?

   Oakley

   5:04:46Yeah, so uh planning and development is not the economic development expert,

   StarkeyChair

   5:04:51um,

   Oakley

   5:04:51but We worked with OEG who worked with Remy to run the

   StarkeyChair

   5:04:56who's O.E. G

   Oakley

   5:04:57the Office of Economic Growth. Yeah.

   StarkeyChair

   5:04:59There are some people who don't know who that is.

   Oakley

   5:05:02The Office of Economic Growth is the expert economic development analysis for the colony. And they worked with uh Remy to run the analysis. So there are inputs and outputs that are in the uh in the model itself that produce the outcomes that were noted in the uh attachment as well as in the memo. And as far as uh when planning looked at this. Um we saw that the figures were not in the negative. that they were in the positive and

   5:05:32that there was a net positive. Um the you know comparison again, 60,000 again was for contextual purposes. It's hypothetical. um the proposal itself is what is um under consideration and there the the money w the revenues were uh in the positive and so we Determined that you know there were inputs, there were outputs put in, or there were inputs put into the model, and since the model came back and positive. Uh

   5:06:02those uh criteria sufficed. In addition, I would add that um part of the other rationale that went into Um looking at this as a positive net revenue is that uh The MPUD already has contributed land for schools, parks, and other infrastructure. And uh in terms of impacts to that infrastructure, multifamily apartments generally have lower impacts.

   5:06:34than single family homes do because you can service more people on uh less land more efficiently.

   StarkeyChair

   5:06:45So if I if I understood you, the amenities that are considered in the C D D district contemplate the amount of residence that were allowed in the Mull in the big plan. Um and we're are we are one we are eleven hundred and sixty-eight short on the capacity that was designed into the C D D bonding and building of amenities.

   Oakley

   5:07:13Yes, I think that you know the MPUD has the infrastructure. designed into it that would support the entitlements. But as I noted, oftentimes MPDs can be overentitled from time to time.

   Moore

   5:07:24Yeah. That's he just made a point, I wonder, if you don't mind. You mentioned um earlier about office and retail could have been overentitled. Does that hold true for um the apartments as well? Could they not be?

   Oakley

   5:07:36They could be.

   Moore

   5:07:36Okay. So you mentioned square footage a little while ago of what your guesstimate is. Um, what could be should be entitled there? You said 60,000. MPU said MPUD is said something different. We mentioned, and Commissioner Mary, I don't know, just made a statement about it too. You could go vertical. How many square foot is this actual project in total under roof? That they're proposing.

   Oakley

   5:07:59Uh well I I haven't uh necessarily seen a site plan regarding it.

   Moore

   5:08:03Roughly.

   Oakley

   5:08:05Why I couldn't

   Moore

   5:08:06have to do that.

   Oakley

   5:08:06How many stories are you? How many stories

   Moore

   5:08:08is it?

   Oakley

   5:08:09I would have to div I would my assumption would be that it would be four stories at a max. Okay, four. Because that's kinda where some of the higher multifamily products are.

   Moore

   5:08:19Maybe a couple hundred thousand square foot. Possibly.

   Oakley

   5:08:23Hundred fifty thousand. It it depends, possibly.

   Moore

   5:08:27Give me a hundred fifty thousand.

   Oakley

   5:08:29For the sake of conversation.

   Moore

   5:08:30Okay. So potentially there could be 150,000 square foot of office on the site versus a multi family apartment complex. which would generate much more than sixty thousand square foot when it comes to jobs. And if we think back again to the statements I made earlier, again, it's our job as commissioners, our your job as staff is to preserve. Economic development. in parcels that will obviously Pursue and move forward with economic development opportunities for the county, right?

   Oakley

   5:08:58Yes. But I there there would be the also the point that Which you have to balance that that uh These are two different market types. Commercial office versus the value of commercial office versus the value of multifamily residential. D they have two two distinct uh value.

   Moore

   5:09:20It's probably a better more of a benefit for the current citizens of Pasco County to have office or sp say employment generating sites that our current residents in Pasco County could use, right?

   Oakley

   5:09:36Uh yeah, I would think so. That's a standing policy. Yeah. Thank you.

   StarkeyChair

   5:09:40Okay, so uh Terry, you touched on something else there. Um, and I wanted to ask you, uh we heard a lot about the schools, and I did listen to the Planning Commission meeting, and I heard of uh no objections from the school district. And I I um heard you say um

   5:10:01That the well. the s or someone said the school district has already taken into account the number of units that could be built in this community?

   Oakley

   5:10:12Yeah, I believe that was the school district representative of the right-of-way.

   StarkeyChair

   5:10:14Yeah, who said that? And I checked and Seven Oaks capacity is six seventy-four and they're currently at six forty-four. So they're they're under capacity right now. It's not

   Oakley

   5:10:26Yeah, the the the latest estimate that I saw, um, I think we I was talking with your Commissioner Fitzpatrick, um it was at ninety-five percent capacity for the twenty twenty two, twenty-three school year. Correct.

   StarkeyChair

   5:10:37Yeah, so it's under capacity. It's under capacity. They've

   Moore

   5:10:39already redistricted because they were overcapacity.

   StarkeyChair

   5:10:41Now you're

   Moore

   5:10:42just gonna have the same situation. Yeah, but It's gonna happen again.

   StarkeyChair

   5:10:46So okay. And let me let me check with one more one more thing. Um for now. Well two things. Um And Commissioner Fitzpatrick touched on it. Um And again, I'm not sure if you're the person to answer this, but maybe you are. W uh and I just want people to hear because we hear this all the time. What's kind of use generates the most traffic.

   5:11:10Vert office, commercial or residential.

   5:11:16It's commercial. Because we charge the heck out of them uh for for impact fee and could and what are these zoned? I'm sorry, remind me what these are zoned right now.

   Oakley

   5:11:27What what is what zoned?

   StarkeyChair

   5:11:28Those two lots.

   Oakley

   5:11:31It's MPU, they're MPU, it's all part of the seven office. So

   StarkeyChair

   5:11:34they could have a McDonald's there.

   Oakley

   5:11:36As a commercial entitlement, yes. Well and

   StarkeyChair

   5:11:38they didn't wouldn't have to come to us for approval. They can have a Burger King there.

   Oakley

   5:11:43Right.

   StarkeyChair

   5:11:43Can I tell you how much traffic those generate? You could have much more traffic there than what is being proposed by by these folks. And and lastly, um for now, well, okay, so you know, you and I, I look at this as an infill project. This is This is In my opinion, one day are downtown. Seventy five, fifty-six, that As we grow and grow and grow, it it's gonna go up. It's gonna get filled

   5:12:13in and you can see what JD Porter does on his property. He makes everybody go up. because that is one day I really feel gonna be the the heart of Pasco County and the the downtown of our county. And I heard some folks here talk about traffic. And um and and transit and I sit on T Barter and the T M A. And we are looking at putting Bus rapid transit. along that corridor because that is where our density is gonna be. And

   5:12:44that is where we need to efficiently move people. And In a in a transit Type of um Method. So are

   Tom Lavash

   5:12:53they gonna rebut

   StarkeyChair

   5:12:54the reason that they looked at that was because that that's where that's that's where um I believe our really high growth is gonna come. But so I but what I want to talk to you about is vertical mixed use last. We did make a statement here and we have memo and whatever the other right terms are that we want vertical mixed use. And I I can speak from experience because our family built a vertical mixed use building that the kind of the kind of commercial that goes into these kind of buildings.

   5:13:25Is really special. It's not gonna be a chain. It's gonna be a mom and pop opportunity for entrepreneurship. That's what we have found in ours, and that is what I have seen that come into these kind of buildings. You see it in downtown Newport Ritchie. And I I think we need to provide those kind of opportunities. We we're gonna grow. We're gonna grow some peop we're gonna help people grow their business. Commissioner Oakley, do you have a question for

   Oakley

   5:13:52Well, just the fact that and I've talked to Terry about this project before and others uh From the get from the get go, I have not been in support of this project. Uh the location of it. I've always felt that the project was too large for the site. Mainly because and and I understand uh Mr. Two told me that others give up Spaces for parking and s and other things,

   5:14:22I guess reduce park sizes. But to me, when you give up spaces, And y for parking and you give up spaces for a park. then you're doing that because you don't have enough land to put this project on. That's that's my opinion.

   StarkeyChair

   5:14:38Mr. Nokley, I appreciate everything you're saying now, but we're and I I'm sorry, I think I got us off a little track. We're supposed to be asking Terry questions and then because they still have rebuttal. And Commissioner Oakley, do you have any questions for Terry or any other staff? staff? And then I'm happy to have you. I

   Oakley

   5:14:53just don't understand uh the change in this project when it It was going to be better as a commercial project rather than a residential from the get-go.

   5:15:05This has all changed to be a residential project. I think it's uh too large for the site. Uh and also now we have a road that runs right through the middle of it, which I think is unsafe. And I don't like it in the project.

   StarkeyChair

   5:15:19Okay, and okay um Commissioner Mariano.

   MarianoVice Chair

   5:15:21Thank you. Um Terry, I one of the slides that we got in one of the presentations said SDLM benefit cost analysis. I was trying to get that emailed over to you while this pres presentation was on. Did you see this? I can give it to you if you want to take a look at it.

   Oakley

   5:15:35Yeah, the the colleague gave it to me. Okay. I just um this is the first time I'm kinda looking at it. So take a take a quick scan of the V Wesley Ch Okay.

   StarkeyChair

   5:15:45What page is it, Jack? Are these numbers?

   MarianoVice Chair

   5:15:51The S D L M benefit cost analysis.

   5:15:55Talked about the methodology, the requirement, and then the results. Do you agree with the result?

   Oakley

   5:16:05Th the result as in the approval would cost the county two million six hundred and thirty-five thousand eight hundred and twenty-eight dollars more per year than it would collect in revenue? Correct. Um that it's not That's not what RME analysis uh Resulted.

   MarianoVice Chair

   5:16:23So looking at the data that they used, do you see anything wrong with the data they used? And I don't know whether I don't even know what this benefit cost analysis is. It just was a slide, so I'm asking you to comment. Is is it legitimate or not? Some we can rely on as commissioners.

   Oakley

   5:16:36Yeah.

   5:16:39And if you're not sure if you say you don't

   5:16:41know,

   5:16:41the thing that I could say is that I I in In the staff recommendation and the agenda memo, we provided the data that We believe was the appropriate information for the commission to look at the easement.

   MarianoVice Chair

   5:16:53So you're not sure about this, but you believe that you it was appropriate to use sixty thousand square feet. Correct? Okay, so And before that in October, When it was recommended for down denial for departments, you had used eighty six thousand in a comparison. Yeah. So I don't know why we did the change. Bottom line is this is the land use of res three. At the maximum, how many units per acre would that generally give?

   Oakley

   5:17:16In in res three, um Three. Three dwelling units per gross

   MarianoVice Chair

   5:17:20acre. Okay, and that's what the land use is currently in this piece of property, correct?

   Oakley

   5:17:23Yes, but it it gets complicated. No, no, that's I don't want

   MarianoVice Chair

   5:17:25any explanations, just that's what it is. Res three.

   5:17:31Use is retail. The alternate is office, the way this project was set up and designed.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   5:17:37Correct.

   MarianoVice Chair

   5:17:38So let me say to my fellow commissioners, one of the things that came up in topic with the half a million people living in Pasco County. And nineteen percent work in Pasco County. This is an opportunity to keep jobs in Pasco County and keep it development the way it was set up. I'm good. Thank you.

   StarkeyChair

   5:17:56Okay, does anyone have any more any questions for any other staff member? Okay, we'll um have the applicant come up for rebuttal. Um y'all have seven minutes left on your top.

   Joel

   5:18:09Thank you, Madam Chair. We'll do three different subjects. Number one, I'd like to introduce and ask you to receive and file the PDD approval memorandum for that December 28th, 2021 conversion. Of 64,000 square feet of retail for 370 multifamily apartments within Seven Oaks.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   5:18:27Motion to receive

   StarkeyChair

   5:18:28a file.

   Joel

   5:18:29Thank you.

   StarkeyChair

   5:18:29All in favor? Aye. Aye. What was it?

   Joel

   5:18:34Second item is Mr. Steve Henry, the transportation expert, is going to spend two minutes on the traffic comparison of the current retail versus proposed mixed use. And then Tom Lavache, our economic expert, will spend the rest of our time on the RIMI model and his own analysis of the positive economic impacts. And we need our PowerPoint up, please.

   Henry

   5:18:58Good evening. Steve Henry, Lingston Associates, 5023 West Laurel, Tampa 33607, and I have been sworn.

   5:19:06Let's see if we can flip through this quick.

   5:19:13So We did the original traffic study for Seven Oaks. So we've been involved with this thing since nineteen ninety-eight. Did the original traffic study Uh and when we did the the original traffic study in addition to that We actually did the traffic study and permitted the access for the four seven oaks. We included 56 and ancient oaks and included the accesses on 581. That also included an analysis to look at those driveways. When we did that, we were using

   5:19:43a 400,000 square foot shopping center for this parcel. This gives a comparison of what the amount of entitlements that are left within that center versus what we're proposing here today. So the green shows what was the remaining traffic that is approved for that site versus what we're proposing. And it from a daily standpoint, it's a reduction of almost two thousand cars per day over what was originally uh and analyzed and what we used for

   5:20:13that analysis for that that particular site within Seven Oaks. From I'm sorry. What year did you do that? We did it we did the original analysis in 1998.

   5:20:26Well that was but what we also we also when we permitted them but that that the original analysis was done a long time ago. Yes it was. Uh then in addition to that, we then looked at the uh AM and PM. The AM was a slight increase over what was originally designed and permitted for that site, which about 34 trips. In the PM, it's actually a reduction over over 218 trips from a from that standpoint. So From the overall standpoint, this particular

   5:20:56project is a net reduction in the traffic that was actually that site was designed for and what it was permitted for. In addition to that, just to very further clarify the loom. What that does is when we do an analysis, we have a certain number of trips that we analyze and are mitigated for the project and look at the driveways. Let's say it's a thousand trips. The purpose in the loom is to be able to trade land uses within the project and not exceed that threshold at

   5:21:26which the project was approved and what and what was designed for. So that's the purpose in the loom because when we do these. master plan projects, we don't know what's ultimately going to get built. They're going to change. All of them do. All the major projects in Pasco County have the loom to be able to do that. And again, the purpose in that is so we don't exceed the trips that were originally analyzed in the analysis. So that concludes my presentation. Thank you.

   Joel

   5:21:50Thank you.

   5:21:56Joel too, while Tom Lavash is coming up, uh every every waiver we requested, parks, parking, every one of them has been approved in every multifamily project you've approved in the last three years, no exceptions.

   Tom Lavash

   5:22:12Great. Uh Madam Chair, Commissioners, thank you. My name is Tom Lavash. uh managing principal with WTL plus A and uh I've been before you before. I've had the great uh privilege of working on two of your most important economic development projects.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   5:22:27Sworn?

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   5:22:28Sorry?

   Tom Lavash

   5:22:28Oh, I'm sorry. Uh yes, I have been sworn and I reside in [address removed].

   Kathy Sierra

   5:22:35Oh lucky.

   Tom Lavash

   5:22:36Um Two of of your most important economic development projects, obviously Project Arthur, the Moffitt Cancer Center, uh Cancer Center, and as well as Connected City. So I am honored to be here uh again tonight. Um we were, and I'm gonna need to find um Christy Could you slide in this. Forgive me, uh given the limited time. Uh my firm was retained in December uh last month uh to conduct an independent peer review

   5:23:06of the REMI analysis. And I'm going to throw another accura acronym at you. Uh IMPLAN. IMPLAN is another economic uh model. IMPLAN stands for impact analysis for planning. And in my 37 years of uh uh experience in um as a real estate and economic uh consultant, um the commercial real estate industry uses uh as Predominant

   5:23:36economic tool. And I say that, I share that with you, knowing that a colleague, a former colleague of mine, went to work for Remy. Both very credible models, both highly sensitive to the inputs that are entered in terms of what they uh uh what they produce uh uh for the analysis. Um part of our scope also included um Looking at uh r specific real estate market inputs and factors affecting demand for vertical mixed

   5:24:07use.

   Legrand Jones

   5:24:11Bear with me here.

   Tom Lavash

   5:24:13Um, this may be a difficult uh table to read. Um we evaluated or or compared the Remia model for what I bel what I understand to be the third analysis uh performed by um uh Mr. Pitos and OEG. And I if if you can bear with me here, uh this is illustrative of the sensitivity which both of these types of economic economic impact models have in terms of the inputs. Um

   5:24:43on the uh middle left. The Remy model was using an average unit size of a thousand eleven hundred square feet. How many more minutes? Yeah,

   5:24:58all right. Um I think the the the uh end result here is that the revenues uh that stock anticipates to achieve higher rents, in part because rents of Pasco County increased eighteen percent last year, multifamily rents. That's an extraordinary number. Very low vacuum. Vacancies. So the demand is there for multifamily and they will be able to command those rents. That in turn translates into higher value. which in turn is gonna translate

   5:25:28into uh greater tax revenues for the county.

   5:25:35And we see that here, a larger project in terms of spore footage will generate greater construction jobs. Those are one-time impacts of construction jobs, something like 600 annual jobs for construction over the two-year period versus 472 for REMI. And permanent jobs. And I want to make sure that we make clear here that we are talking about not only on- Site, which are direct jobs, but also in indirect and induced, which distribute itself through the

   5:26:05economy.

   StarkeyChair

   5:26:07Um did any Commissioner Mariano, did you have any questions for him? You look like you were gonna be able to do that. Okay. Great. All right, so so the summarization is What? Uh in one sentence.

   Tom Lavash

   5:26:21Yeah, okay. Higher value project will generate greater county benefits. Uh higher value project will also generate uh l larger project will also generate more construction jobs. I think the one parting message I'd like to leave you with here is that Uh understanding where your economy is going in terms of job growth, you added 36,500 new jobs between 2005 and 2019. Oh. 37% of them were in retail and uh

   5:26:51food and beverage. Uh about 15% of them were in office jobs.

   StarkeyChair

   5:26:57Yeah.

   Tom Lavash

   5:26:58Demo. Well that's interesting. We should come

   StarkeyChair

   5:27:02back and speak at our one of our economic

   Tom Lavash

   5:27:06Sure, sure. Pasco County, according to census, added 36,500 new jobs between 2005 and 2019. That's a sustained annual pace of 2,400 new jobs every year during that window. Uh the percentage, so the percentage. How much was off this? Sure, sure. So 23, 24% of those jobs were in healthcare. About eighty seven hundred jobs. Thirty-seven percent of those jobs were

   5:27:36in retail and hotels and food and beverage speaks to the uh quality of life you have here in the uh community and keeping it.

   StarkeyChair

   5:27:44But is that a good thing or a bad thing?

   Tom Lavash

   5:27:46That's a good thing. Uh fifteen

   StarkeyChair

   5:27:49low paying jobs?

   Tom Lavash

   5:27:50Fifteen to eighteen percent were in office using sectors and ten percent were industrial and flex.

   StarkeyChair

   5:27:59Well, it would be interesting to see those numbers in five years. Cause I think we've done a great improvement on that and

   Tom Lavash

   5:28:09I'd

   StarkeyChair

   5:28:10have to look at that again if I and

   Tom Lavash

   5:28:11DEO was suggesting that that we're

   MarianoVice Chair

   5:28:14back to I got a few questions first. Okay. If you don't mind.

   StarkeyChair

   5:28:17Go ahead, consult.

   MarianoVice Chair

   5:28:17Um so let me ask you this. So the input that you talked about. We initially used eighty six thousand square feet. It was dropped down to sixty thousand square feet. Do you know why that would be done? I'm sorry. The square footage use. For the Remy model. They used sixty they used eighty-six thousand dollars square foot first, then they shrunk it down to sixty. That's correct. Is that normal where you kind of change the densities on Variance provisions that you make it?

   Tom Lavash

   5:28:45I I have the great privil privilege of working all over the United States. I see it in many, many jurisdictions.

   MarianoVice Chair

   5:28:51So from from a developer, uh in order to do this comparison, it's probably what I would want to see is a reduction in the commercial retail number to make my argument stronger. And I'd want to increase the variances that I want to get that I s get on my other complexes to put that number up as far as to raise my numbers. That's a good manipulation of statistics,

   Tom Lavash

   5:29:11correct? It's it's it it it's all a balancing act and I think all of us here tonight have seen the fact that this is a balancing act in a county that is growing and growing rapidly. Oh,

   MarianoVice Chair

   5:29:23and and the scales were tipped on the statistics here to make the the mixed use look better than what the commercial retail would have been. By changing those by changing that input.

   Tom Lavash

   5:29:35I think in part because one of the, you know, developers take risks. And I say that 65% of my practice is for public clients. The remaining 35% is for the private sector. Developers take risks. And there is a risk inherent in every single project a developer works on. And it's part of this balancing act of ensuring in vertical mixed use that you can effectively cross-subsidize uses that may be slightly weaker

   5:30:05versus uses on a site that may be stronger. Um, right now your multifamily market is incredibly strong. Fifteen hundred units were absorbed last year. Okay, so

   MarianoVice Chair

   5:30:18we have a lot of people from the county that leave. To go commute. These people here are probably gonna go commute down the hills where they're gonna clog up I-75, brew speed downs, all the way down and go back and forth. If we looked at What this development could be. to be let's say a three-story complex for office. Higher paying jobs, keeping people right here, that might even help this complex, which is award-winning, instead of people leaving the community to go somewhere else, it might actually

   5:30:48capture more jobs and keep them in place. Absolutely. Did you do did have you looked at, and do you think there's any relevance to looking at? And I know it's hard for who's paying you. But if you're gonna look at this project, instead of using sixty thousand square feet. if you tripled that amount to go three stories of height And you looked at target industries, which not only give you jobs that are right here, they're right now, but they radiate more jobs out and around, which is why we, as commissioners, indirectly introduced. Indirect, exactly. So to try to elevate what the numbers would

   5:31:18be, wouldn't those numbers be staggeringly higher? Making this an high-end office complex? If

   Tom Lavash

   5:31:24there there's something also called marketability and how marketable is both uh a site and a use to attract a specific tenant uh tenant mix? Um that's what we call net absorption. A space that was empty yesterday but is occupied tomorrow is net absorption. Um One of the things that I think you need to consider here is how does this site fit relative to other sites in Pasco County that are competing for

   5:31:54the same tenant mix? Um in terms of of job growth. I I did a study about 15 years ago, 18 years ago in uh Sarasota County, a major employment uh major employment center land use study. And one of the underpinning questions in in that study was to understand how much land do we have zoned currently that could accommodate future jobs. Right. And what we learned, and I don't want to quote the specific years, I

   5:32:25vaguely recall, forgive my middle-aged memory here, I vaguely recall there were 73 years of land available in Sarasota County for to accommodate future job growth in those land uses that are considered workplace real estate. I'll beg ignorance here. As your Auditon consultant, I don't know whether you have ever done a buildup analysis here in Pasco to evaluate how much zone, how much acreage you have to accommodate

   5:32:55that future job growth. DEO is suggesting that Pasco in her and Hernando counties, they they lump Pasco and Hernando together for into what they call workplace or workforce regions, that over the next eight years, that that those two jurisdictions will add 25,350 new jobs. If Pasco maintains its 73% share of that larger workforce region, that would suggest

   5:33:2518,300 new jobs coming to Pasco County over the next eight years. And those those the types of jobs that w will will be created will then impact how much demand you have for office space, how much demand you have for retail space, for industrial space, et cetera. And in part, that can be manipulated or tailored according to what your economic development initiatives are. Um, the fact that Raymond James is building a great new building here in the county um

   5:33:56is i is testament to that success. But that's build the suit for owner users.

   StarkeyChair

   5:34:02Messia

   5:34:03was

   5:34:03packet

   Fitzpatrick

   5:34:03as a question.

   Tom Lavash

   5:34:04Um so Commissioner

   Fitzpatrick

   5:34:05Fitzpatrick has a question. Quick statement, then I have a question. So 33% of our population is in the Westmarket area of Pasco County on the west side, and 41% of our job growth is there as well. Um or of our employment is over.

   5:34:21Uh the E the E D C

   5:34:25Our our uh third floor. So

   5:34:30So um I was looking at the plans for one of the new potential buildings that were going up, and I kept asking, well, why are we gonna have A parking garage over there and a parking garage over here and a parking garage here. There is about five different parking garages. I said, Why don't we just build one parking garage going five stories up? They said, Well, it's less expensive to build horizontal because the land is so cheap right now. So of course it's gonna as the economy and the land gets more

   5:35:01expensive, we are going to end up starting to build up vertically. So that's I do understand that. And we're gonna need to have housing for people as the economy grows as well. We're not gonna be able to build horizontally all the time. So that's what I was just trying to get out. And I was gonna ask you Okay, so my question was If I was gonna have an industrial site or a commercial building. Is

   5:35:31it cost effective to go triple wide or would I be able to have an addition

   Tom Lavash

   5:35:38horizontally?

   Fitzpatrick

   5:35:39Or would I be able to somehow have an industrial building like you were mentioning in that article, three stories up? Could I make it economical feet economically feasible? To build something vertical.

   Tom Lavash

   5:35:52Historically, industrial uses such as warehousing and transportation are horizontal.

   Fitzpatrick

   5:35:58Correct.

   Tom Lavash

   5:35:59They can't function vertically. With the introduction of Amazon as a behemoth and vertical adjust-in-time deliveries and technology that is allowing I mean those tenants to actually build vertically, higher bay. uh uh ceiling heights. Uh historically warehousing and distribution was between twelve and eighteen feet ceiling height. Uh now it's

   5:36:29twenty four to thirty two and and it's it's getting higher, in part because the technology has been built has been created to allow it to uh the the technology, the robotics and et cetera to uh pole materials that are in higher base spaces. That's not to suggest that it's three stories uh uh separate floors, but it's a higher base space on a single

   Fitzpatrick

   5:36:56Would we be able to put an industrial or a commercial use there? It hasn't sold in the past fifteen years or in the past five five years that it has been on the market. Would we would it be a good lot for a commercial or an industrial or is it not large enough for an industrial site? Right there.

   Tom Lavash

   5:37:15Typically that if it is I think that it's very difficult to answer that question because it uh uh it is it comes down to it being the the needs of an owner user or a build to suit. I don't envision that as an industrial. And when I say industrial, that can be anything from widget making to warehousing and distribution to a utility storage yard.

   StarkeyChair

   5:37:40Thank you. All right. I think that's I think we're done. Um There are more questions? So we'll go to us. We'll start with um Commissioner Oakley and

   5:37:54Okay. Um, Um Commissioner Oakley, you mentioned about that that drive that um That you were concerned with the road in between the two buildings?

   Unidentified speakerVoice I

   5:38:04Yeah, uh well I was concerned about the project because I always thought it was too large for the site.

   5:38:12And the fact that it wasn't for and uh come back up and say again that giving up spaces and giving up um I guess parks for kids where is a normal thing to do.

   Oakley

   5:38:33I always thought it was this project was actually too big for the site. And now I'm looking at a

   Unidentified speakerVoice I

   5:38:42uh site that I think is the build the project's too big, and then I've got a road right down the middle of it. And that bothers me about safety. And I just want to make that statement.

   StarkeyChair

   5:38:53Um commission more?

   Moore

   5:38:55Mm, well. We've got people that are have been here for hours. I mean if we want to keep going back and forth we can. I'd rather just make a motion. Yeah.

   StarkeyChair

   5:39:05Well I'm gonna say some things under discussion.

   Moore

   5:39:09I'll make a motion. Go ahead. Move ahead. What's your message under discussion? So your mic. Considering uh sorry I didn't want to bore you earlier. Considering some of the statements that were made by uh both the applicant as well as the uh testimony from uh The citizens, as well as the questions that I asked and how they were answered by staff, specifically Terry Pitos. So I actually moved to deny the requested zoning amendment for the following reasons. Zoning requests

   5:39:40is inconsistent with the comprehensive plan policies FLU 1.8.10 and ED 1.6.2. Preservation of capacity for employment generating uses in ED 1.4.4, limitation on the conversion of important employment locations, because it is undisputed that the request will reduce the employment generating entitlements on the site from at least sixty thousand square foot of office and retail uses, down to twenty thousand square feet of office and retail uses and reduced

   5:40:10job generation by a minimum of fifty-three jobs. Preservation of land for employment is a legitimate public purpose, and maintaining the existing retail or office entitlement for parcel S19 furthers that public purpose. Accordingly, the requested rezoning would also be inconsistent with the LDC section 402.1.E.19. Number two, the rezoning request is inconsistent with the comprehensive plan policy 1.8.7 economic development because Staff and the applicant have both

   5:40:40failed to conduct any service consumption cost analysis. Therefore, staff and the applicant have failed to demonstrate that the project will contribute more to the county in revenue than it will consume in services. Number three, the conversion of parcel S19 to re residential entitlement will place additional unplanned and unmitigated demands on the school, library, and park systems, the additional 320 units. Would create the need to accommodate at least 76 additional students in the school system, and these new students will also be users of our library and park system. The existing

   5:41:11retailer office entitlements for parcel S19 would not create any additional demands on the school, library or park, which was stated by Mr. Pitos earlier when I asked him that question. For these reasons, the rezoning is inconsistent with LEC sections 402.2, point F.1. through three and LD sections four point two, one point e, point one three, and seventeen. In number four, there's an existing major retailer to the east of the subject parcel, and its primary access is a roadway that buffers parcel S19, potentially causing traffic

   5:41:41and parking issues in that area. The site is also relatively small and unable to accommodate 320 multifamily units without requesting variations from the land development requirements relating to parking and neighborhood parks. Currently, the site has unique size and surrounding news. Constraints that make it unsuitable for multifamily or vote vertical mixed-use development. It is not comparable in size or location to most other multifamily or vertical mixed-use developments that this board has approved in the past, which was also stated earlier. Therefore, the rezoning would be inconsistent

   5:42:11with the land development code section 402.1.e.11 and 16. That is my motion.

   Oakley

   5:42:18A second.

   StarkeyChair

   5:42:19Okay, um under discussion. Go ahead. Commissioner Weightman.

   Fitzpatrick

   5:42:22Oh I just wanted to mention, I know you'd mentioned schools. At Planning Commission, they did say the schools were under capac under capacity. The projects do lower the traffic compared to what it was in the fi what concerns me is in the fa past fifteen Loom conversions, not one had been dis disputed or denied. So I'm gonna go back to what I've said at prior board board meetings and when it comes back when we

   5:42:52agree to something or if we give someone entitlements, I'm not okay with refusing. entitlements or taking away something that we've given someone 30 years ago or 20 years ago. So I like to just follow through on what we say we're gonna do. So that's a concern that I have. Um And lastly it hadn't sold in fifteen years or it's been on the market for the past five and if as long as there was a playground in there to accommodate the kids, I would be okay for that playgroup. For

   5:43:23that apartment. You wanna say

   StarkeyChair

   5:43:26so um yeah, I wanna say too, I'm I'm uncomfortable um that I think it's being denied for different reasons. Um we heard that people thought it was gonna be ugly. Um people think we don't need any more apartments. I'm gonna tell you. Yeah, I I hear it from people all around the country. And you see it in the rates of the apartments that just jumped this year that we don't have. We don't have the capacity that our community needs.

   5:43:57And I personally think that putting multifamily on the edge of a community. Is a great place to put it. To put a multifamily on a quarter like 56, where transit's gonna be, I think that's where it needs to be. We're not we're we're This is an entitlement that This neighborhood already has. Um we're not taking away the commercial. There's still uh ability for office to be here. It's just on the other edge,

   5:44:27not on this edge, where it has been proven. then no one wants to put it there. So um Um I I'm You know, I can I can see where this is going, but I just uh feel that we we have said that we want vertical mixed use. I think that's a great use of our limited space. And um I I'm in support of Putting the apartments in the front. Э нам. That's where I

   5:44:57am. So All right, so we'll call the question.

   MarianoVice Chair

   5:45:00Call the question. Question.

   StarkeyChair

   5:45:02All in favor? I've the motion. And all those opposed. Aye. Well he made a motion to deny to deny. So h to deny

   5:45:15Who

   5:45:16was

   StarkeyChair

   5:45:16the second on that motion?

   Oakley

   5:45:17I was I was second on the motion.

   StarkeyChair

   5:45:22And I and um so the motion fails. No, the motion passes and the project fails and I'm And that's where we are.

   MarianoVice Chair

   5:45:32Commissioner Starkey before we go.

   Unidentified speakerVoice O

   5:45:34No, no, no, no.

   MarianoVice Chair

   5:45:35Before we go I make I want to make one motion on something completely separate.

   Joel

   5:45:38Okay, but uh record was it three to two? I'm trying to figure out exactly how the votes went.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   5:45:43Yes, it was three to two.

   Joel

   5:45:45Thank you. Yeah. And thank you all for your time. Much appreciated. And I

   StarkeyChair

   5:45:49let me say

   Joel

   5:45:49it's been a long process.

   StarkeyChair

   5:45:51It is. And uh I think that was the best presentation from a community I've ever seen. So I'm sure I think I know you got some help from this gentleman over here. But well done. Except that I disagree, but that's okay. That's what we do. It's a majority role.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   5:46:07Oh oh we still he's there.

   Moore

   5:46:10turn.

   5:46:13Adjourn.

   StarkeyChair

   5:46:14Oh.

   Moore

   5:46:15guys, we haven't adjourned. We haven't adjourned yet.

   StarkeyChair

   5:46:17I apologize. We haven't adjourned, Commissioner Mariano. Uh y'all can leave, but leave quietly. We're still in.