PDD-22-0565

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TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 79% of 87 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.

1. 1Sep 22, 2022
   Planning CommissionPC9Public hearingNo disposition in the minutes

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   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   57:21Okay, so P C nine?

   Denise

   57:25Does the Planning Commission want presentation on PC nine or is it Um you'd like To get opposition. I mean the not opposition, to get comments from the public on PC nine.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   57:36Well I understand the developer agreement but I understand there's opposition so like I'm fine with Hearing what the issue is.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   57:43I guess can can I ask staff one question or ask somebody one question on a developer agreement real quick though? If you look on the developer agreement on page two, Uh section three D is in David. It talks about FGUA and utilities. Then when you go to page six. Section five H talks about county utilities.

   58:09Typo.

   Jon Moody

   58:17I suspect it's 3D that's not.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   58:23Okay.

   58:27So I don't think that's anything that needs to be answered. I think it just needs to be looked at before it goes to the board. That's all.

   Jon Moody

   58:32I think you just when you make a motion to approve it which should be to correct 3D, because I think that's the error.

   Denise

   58:37Yeah, it should be Pasco County Utilities.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   58:40Understood.

   58:42Okay, um I think it's Jeremy.

   58:47Public

   Jon Moody

   58:48Well before we hear from the opposition, does the applicant want to say anything?

   58:55Okay. Okay. The applicant saying no for the record.

   project engineer

   59:01Yeah, I'm not Jeremy Couch, [address removed]. I'm not I'm not here in opposition. I'm just so wanna make that clear. I'm here for comment because I live on this street and how it looks when it's all built is important to me. Especially since the counties Um giving mobility fee credits. So I'm very happy that the road's gonna get fixed. It's nice. Um We have rezoning it, so It's this is the next step. My my issue is that what we're building. So we're

   59:32building this really big typical section. But we're le we're leaving huge gaps in the sidewalk. So the applicant is not required under the code to build a sidewalk along the substandard portion. So when you look at look at the area, I don't know if you have an aerial, but I'm forty one. There is a multi use path. And a sidewalk. And then you have a thousand feet across two parcels that has no sidewalk. And a lot of kids use this to ride

   1:00:02their bikes and go to Lando Lakes High, which is right there. Then in front of Art and Preserve you have a five foot sidewalk. And then as proposed in front of my house for another thousand feet you have no sidewalk. And then when you get down a thousand feet west of me in the middle of nowhere, you got bike lanes, a multi-use path, a sidewalk, and everything. I understand that the typical section shows Bike lanes. But when you have bike lanes and a multi-use path that's completely redundant. It

   1:00:32seems to me like the pat the bike lanes should go away. and use that money, the county reimbursed these folks to um Build the sidewalk connection. Right now from The people that live on Wisteria Loop and Bexley Road. And the people in Art and Preserve. There's people out there walking, jogging. uh walking their dogs, riding their bikes, and then you're gonna have this subdivision at the end of the little country road. Those folks are gonna be out riding and walking their bikes walking

   1:01:02their dogs and riding their bikes too. Without a sidewalk. And so it's kind of like a little bit of a little bit of a little Yeah.

   1:01:12Make a new road. and a good new road would have a sidewalk that connects the whole system. So um Yeah. I don't want them to spend money to do this if they don't have to, but maybe the county should figure out how to insert Paying them. The applicant or the other party in this is one of the biggest general contractors in the country. I mean they can manage building this sidewalk. if we give 'em the money. So That's it. I'm not in opposition. I don't want to slow him down. But

   1:01:43I do want it to be done right. And the bike lanes don't make any sense.

   Chris Williams

   1:01:47Can I ask a quick question? How many literal feet are you talking about?

   project engineer

   1:01:51So there's a thousand foot gap From forty one to Arden Preserve if you want to look at an aerial. If you want to pan to the northeast please.

   Chris Williams

   1:02:01So you got a thousand linear foot?

   project engineer

   1:02:03You

   1:02:03got

   1:02:03a thousand linear foot gap to see the subdivision that you can see in the aerial that was under construction. It's built out, looks fantastic. Um drainage works great. There's a thousand foot from forty one to their property line with no sidewalk. And then after that Um You see like the W and Wisteria loop. Um there's not going to be any sidewalk there. And then immediately we're gonna have like urban section, curb and gut, or bike lanes, multi-use path. And

   1:02:34it it's just gonna be goofy.

   1:02:39And so I don't know if you can insert language or think through this, but I feel like there's a lot better improvement that could be done. If it's thought through and the county gives them the money to do it. Thank you.

   Chris Williams

   1:02:53So you're saying basically two thousand linear

   project engineer

   1:02:55feet for the sidewalk. sidewalk

   Chris Williams

   1:02:57or more.

   project engineer

   1:02:58It's it's probably two thousand feet of sidewalk. But you know, there's like covert pipe in, there's little ditches. I mean it's it's a little bit more than just sidewalk to make it happen, but In the middle section it's just sidewalk. There's there's room for days. They could build giant floodplain comp ponds, they can do get all the dirt they need. There's plenty of room for the sidewalk. It's that segment from From there to forty one. And it's the same problem on on Lake Patience. If you look at Lake Patience between Oakstead

   1:03:29And the build for rent dealing with the easy. There's no sidewalk. There's like a snaked road and people take their lives in their own hands to get to Oakstead Elementary right there. And then from The bill for rent deal to the Pulti job. There's no sidewalk there either. So there's like these gaps So we're approving projects. It's like, why don't we give these people mobility fee credits or give them the money to build this? They're gonna be out there. They're gonna be more efficient than the county at building this. Just have 'em do it. Pay 'em.

   Jon Moody

   1:04:01So This is an off site sidewalk for this project, so it would be mobility fee creditable The issue is that the development agreement doesn't currently require it. As Mr. Couch noticed. Um so the real issue is whether the applicant's willing to do that for credits. But it is it would be credible because it's an off site improvement for this project. And it's not something that's required by our substitute and a road criteria. So It's

   1:04:32really a question for the applicant about whether they are willing to Add that to the required improvements for mobility fee credit.

   project engineer

   1:04:39Well, if you look at the typical section. There's ten foot of pavement that you don't need. Like there's no point to that ten foot of pavement and base And additional wetland mitigation and impacts. If you took that out of the typical section, you modified the typical section. I don't know how many feet it is from the end of their improvement to where they start for um the Vision Road, but It's like a few thousand feet. I mean they'll easily pay for the little sidewalk.

   Jon Moody

   1:05:13Okay, well before we hear from the applicant, I mean does anybody you probably need to finish your public comment. Thank you.

   Raymond Gadd

   1:05:26Ray Gad, sixty-five oh four, Wisteria Loop, Lando Lakes, Florida. Um uh first of all, I wanna echo the comments um uh that Jeremy has made. Um I just want you to imagine what it'll look like out there. It's kind of a like a rural lane right now. You're gonna come in off a 41. You have a thousand feet, ditches on both sides, and all of a sudden you're gonna have a curve and gutter road. No sidewalks, and then you're gonna go down. And then you're gonna have multi-use trail and sidewalks. So it's just number one,

   1:05:56it just kinda looks funny. uh out here in what used to be the country. Secondly, um I'm an avid cyclist. If you were on my Facebook page, you'd know that I ride about a hundred miles a week. I would never use a bike lane on a road where I had a multi-use trail. Just doesn't make any sense at all. And you won't see many bikers that will do that. Occasionally you have bikers that are very rigid and adamant about people being in their way and they might ride on the road, but they're a little stupid. You always use a multi-use

   1:06:26trail if you're on a bicycle and you can do that. My second point that I want to make. Is um I want to thank the applicant because uh the applicant and county staff came out to our property and looked at this situation, looked at this road. And I think we have a better project out there than we started with. And I think that's a testament to people working together. I have one concern and I probably wouldn't have that concern unless it was raining, but I want to put add this into the record.

   Donald E. Anderson

   1:06:54Move to accept.

   Raymond Gadd

   1:06:55Second.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:06:57Motion to receive and file. All in favor?

   Raymond Gadd

   1:06:59Aye. These are pictures right now of the road flooded. And there are five different places where the water is flowing over that road. Mr. Moody made my point. It's not a hundred year event that's causing this flooding right now. It's it's been raining on our property for a month. I mean if it rains five minutes, my property has three inches water in the front yard. Not concerned about it. My house is not gonna flood. But what I am concerned about is there's a culvert that And I'll enter this into the record. Move to accept um

   1:07:30Sorry. There's a culvert that motion received and followed in favor.

   1:07:36they're gonna elevate the road and I'm afraid that the water will come up, the lake will back up, all our docks will be flooded. So I just ask that the applicant take that into consideration. Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:07:47Thank you, Ray. Is there anybody else?

   1:07:52The applicant present?

   What

   1:07:57Thank you, Chairman Member Shelley Johnson, [address removed], and I have been sworn. Um we are taking notes of some of the concerns that are being raised. Um I the only thing I can tell you today is we'll be happy to look at it between now and and Board of County Commissioners and as we move through process, we've got a year and a half of DEP permitting ahead of us. I know David knows that and and I think Ray's acknowledged that you know we We've been working in coordination with them. This is the first we're hearing of this. We've been working on this for months at this point, the design, so it's kind of we're a little bit caught off guard by it, but we'll

   1:08:27be happy to look at it. Um and you know if there's any you know revisions that we need to make to the DA before it goes to the Board of County Commissioners, we'll address it then. But we have heard him and we have taken notes, so.

   Chris Williams

   1:08:38W would you be willing to uh Uh

   1:08:44Place the two thousand linear feet uh sidewalking into this project?

   What

   1:08:49So because part of the road we're already into the engineering on it. What they're gonna have to do is they're gonna have to go back and they're really just gonna have to look at it and evaluate it. It's not something that they can make a decision about today. um by any means. So it's somet but by all means we would say for the record that we'll be happy to to look at it. They know we've continued to work with them through this process. So Um we can we can definitely do that. But it's not something that we they could make a decision today on because they have to look at it.

   Chris Williams

   1:09:14So you're willing, very

   What

   1:09:16willing

   Chris Williams

   1:09:16to at least look at it and propose it because sidewise can be an improvement to any project.

   What

   1:09:23Yeah, they'll evaluate it if it makes sense and it works and the county's good with it. I mean it sounded like David, you know, we could revise the agreement for the impact fee credit, so um uh we're definitely open to looking at it. I mean they're looking to be good neighbors. They're not, you know, trying to be difficult by any means, which I think we've shown. So We just we need to continue to move forward to the board.

   Jon Moody

   1:09:43Yeah, I mean to the applicant's point, I It is a legitimate request, but I don't know if anybody's looked at whether there's a sufficient right-of-way for to add the sidewalk, whether there's sufficient drainage capacity. I mean even adding the sidewalk adds impervious surface, so you need to look at It's not as simple as just saying we're gonna build a sidewalk.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   1:10:02I think what Mr. Couch was proposing was that the bike lanes be eliminated.

   Jon Moody

   1:10:08Yeah, but he's talking about he's talking about in the realign section. But The area where he wants to add sidewalks is not in the rear line section. It's outside of that and I'm not sure anybody's looked at the right of way in drainage in that area outside of the in in the existing Wisteria locations. Am I making sense? The portion of forty one. Yes. you got new development.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:10:31Well if the if the applicant Wants to change the section of the road. It's not set in stone the way this developer agreement's written and staff can't reconsider a different section, can they?

   Jon Moody

   1:10:44Because the board wanted it set in stone. They didn't want them deviating from the alignment and cross section once it was approved. However, Between now and the board meeting it could be changed. Certainly.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   1:10:56That makes sense. I would tell you that when I read the developer agreement And I got to the typical cross section. I walked over to my partner and I said, When are we going to stop doing this? Nobody in their right mind, like Mr. Gad said, would ride their bicycle along the bike lane. Well Joe Public is doing this on their telephone. I'm not gonna do it. I'd rather have that pavement added to the to the multi

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:11:20use path

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   1:11:22or wider sidewalk, but there's no need to pave ten extra feet of roadway

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:11:27when

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   1:11:28we've got in fact that was not an eight foot multi use, it's a twelve foot multi use path. I'd rather have that even maybe a wider path.

   Jon Moody

   1:11:35Let me just say that to a certain extent bike lanes Probably shouldn't be called bike links because I think the engineers view them as effectively being a sh break down lane for like a shoulder.

   1:11:49I I understand that, but but I think it's pavement that You are absolutely correct. There probably are not a lot of people using them or as bike lanes. However Any road needs some level of shoulder breakdown area that can be used so people aren't breaking down in the middle of the street. So that ends up being this this area of pavement that you're that we're all calling a bike lane But it's not functioning as just a bike lane. So You gotta remember that when you start getting rid of bike lanes, that they function as more than just

   1:12:19that.

   1:12:21Then maybe we just need to call them shoulders, but it's Mr. Mr. Couch's point, it's not as simple as we're gonna get we're gonna get rid of ten feet of pavement because then where's your breakdown lane? Right. You know that that's what you're getting rid of. So don't Maybe we need to stop calling them bike lanes.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:12:40Yeah, so I I guess really at the bottom line, Shelley, if you guys can look at that before it goes back to the board, I think that would make everybody happy up here and out there. All right, so no problem

   What

   1:12:48with that.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:12:50Well I did want to make a comment because we do have a connection at the back end of Arden Preserve to Land O' Lakes High School. So certainly it would be important to have those sidewalks connected so that folks from coming from the renter property would be able to, you know, at least walk to the high school if they're high school kids.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:13:11Okay. Very good. Is there a motion?

   Donald E. Anderson

   1:13:16I'll make a motion to uh

   Jon Moody

   1:13:18Except the PC nine. And is that with the correction to the three three D paragraph three D of the uh developer Yes.

   Donald E. Anderson

   1:13:27Yes. Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:13:31Wait for the second.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   1:13:32I'll second it.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:13:33I was just gonna make sure that um staff has uh what Mr. Gadd produced as far as the elevation of the road and the the culvert and all that stuff on hand. It was entered in the record. Yes. Okay. Well let's make sure the

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   1:13:47record gets transmitted to the staff. It's correct. Then I'll amend the motion to make sure that the the submitted record is transmitted to the staff along with the approval of this development agreement.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:14:00All right, is motion a second? All in favor?

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   1:14:02Aye. Aye.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:14:04Opposed? Motion carries.