PDD-22-7613

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TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 86% of 260 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.

1. 1Jul 21, 2022
   Planning CommissionP3Public hearingNo disposition in the minutes

   Zoning Amendment (Regular) – Stillwell Pasco Station MPUD – MPUD– Change in Zoning from … Containing Approximately 29.232 Acres

   Open this item →▶ Play from 35:43
   ▶ 35:432m

   Denise

   35:43Right, we're gonna move a little bit out of order again. So please forgive. So we're gonna move on to item P three. Which is PDD twenty two seven six one three. This item is on your regular item a regular um Agenda, but that is because it is a request for multi-family, and we have a policy that if there's a request for multi-family, it is to be on the the regular agenda. We have not received any any I uh folks in opposition to this item, nor any folks

   36:13that have been signed up that are signed up to speak on WebEx on the item. If you would indulge me and allow me to read it into record and if you would call for any Um public comment?

   Kim Britt

   36:25Okay.

   Denise

   36:27So that one is PDD 227613. It's a zoning amendment in the name of Stillwell Pasco Station MPUD for a change in zoning from an AC agricultural and AR agricultural residential district to an MPUD Master Plan Unit Development District to allow for a maximum of 285 multifamily dwelling units. It comes to you with a recommendation of approval with conditions as included in your agenda packet.

   GreyChair

   36:51All right. Is the applicant present?

   Denise

   36:53The applicant is virtually present. Ms. Will Hight is on

   GreyChair

   36:56All right. I think we are you the applicant back there, you raised your hand.

   Denise

   37:00They're folks from the team here.

   GreyChair

   37:02Oh okay, fine, fine. Anyone here to object? See no objections? Okay. Uh do we have a motion?

   GirardiVice Chair

   37:12Move to approve item PDD 227613.

   37:17Oh second.

   GreyChair

   37:19A motion and a second. Any further discussion of the motion? If not, I'll signify by saying aye. Hi.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   37:25Hi.

   GreyChair

   37:25Bose like sign. Motion carries.

2. 2Aug 24, 2022
   Board of County CommissionersP77Public hearingApproved

   Approved minutes

   Approved Staff’s recommendation.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 2:03:21
   ▶ 2:03:2149m

   StarkeyChair

   2:03:21P seventy seven. We have proof of publication of the hearing of this matter in the July sixth, twenty twenty two edition of the Tampa Bay Times. We do have one person online. Hopefully.

   Planning and Development staff

   2:03:34Good afternoon, William Vermillion Planning and Development. This is Stillwell Pasco Station M Pudd, PDD 227613.

   2:03:43Here is an aerial view of the site. It is right on Old Pasco Road, south of State Road fifty two. I think that future land use is res twelve, to the north is ROR, to the south is P D

   2:04:00And to the west is Res twelve.

   2:04:05The current zoning is AR and AC. To the north is C2. To the south is MPUD, and to the west is MPUD. The applicant is requesting a rezoning from AC Agricultural District and AR Agricultural Residential District to an MPUD master plan unit development on approximately 29.23 acres. They're asking for a maximum of two hundred and eighty-five multifamily dwelling units.

   2:04:32The applicant requests the following variations from the land development code, LDC Section nine oh one point six point D eleven street design and dedication requirements. LDC 907.1 F3 on-site parking, and LDC eight oh five point six restrictions on post-development wetlands and upland buffers.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:04:50Yeah, I'm sure.

   StarkeyChair

   2:04:51Yeah.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:04:52Can you elaborate what those changes are?

   StarkeyChair

   2:04:53Yeah, I I'm not gonna worry that you I knew the on street parking thing.

   Planning and Development staff

   2:05:02Are you asking for an elaboration, sir? Yes. Oh it's it's my next slide.

   2:05:07LDC nine oh one point six D eleven staff identified the following. The applicant does not propose interconnections to the eastern south because of the existing Tampa Bay Golf and Country Club. And the connections to the north will be made in the form of two pedestrian slash bike paths. Staff has determined that this connection in this form will provide better circulation between this development and the northern parcel in the future.

   StarkeyChair

   2:05:31That that makes sense. That's a gated community to the To the right.

   Planning and Development staff

   2:05:40LDC 907.1 F3 staff identify the following. The applicant has requested to reduce the on-site parking ratio from 2.25 spaces per unit to two spaces per unit. Staff determined the reduction in the area of asphalt reduced heat, and this ratio is above the 85th percentile peak parking demand in ITE. The parking study by Razor Transportation is included in this agenda packet.

   2:06:06LDC 805.stix staff identified the following The applicant has requested that a covenant shall impose a perpetual obligation to maintain, operate, repair, replace, insure, and pay taxes upon the master developer. The applicant has requested this variation because this project Will be operated and maintained under common ownership. There will be no homeowner, property owners, condominium owners, merchants association.

   2:06:32This is the master plan.

   2:06:37This is their yield concept.

   StarkeyChair

   2:06:43Is that the right-of-way? Has that changed? Yes, that's changed.

   Planning and Development staff

   2:06:47Yes. This is the original yield concept. Okay. And you'll notice that all the

   2:06:54that abut the Tampa Bay Golf and Country Club.

   StarkeyChair

   2:06:57I think there's a bunch on that on that edge now.

   Planning and Development staff

   2:07:00Yes.

   2:07:03On April 19, 2022, a small cale comprehensive plan use amendment C PASS 2206 from Res III to Res 12 was approved by the Board of County Commissioners.

   2:07:17The Planning and Development Department has reviewed the requested variations and found that they meet or exceed the extent of the code. On July 21, 2022, the Planning Commission voted to recommend to the Board of County Commissioners unanimously. The proposed request is consistent with the Pasco County L D C Chapter 400, Subsection 402.2 zoning amendment, master plan unit development with the applicable provisions of the Pasco County Comprehensive Plan. This comes to you with a recommendation of approval with conditions from Planning Commission And planning and development department.

   2:07:50Thank you.

   StarkeyChair

   2:07:52Thank you. Uh the applicant is approach the applicant's representative is approaching.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:08:01Good afternoon again. Barbara Wilheit, sixty three twenty seven, Graham Boulevard, New Port Richey.

   2:08:08Excellent presentation. The only thing I would say is that we are to say that we're multifamily units, we are an MPUD that has a specific permitted use. One permitted use. And the permitted use says two stories or less detached or attached units, but not plotted a separate lot. So cannot be garden style multifamily, can't be anything over two stories, they can be and they are and they're all commonly owned. um under one under one

   2:08:39project. As was mentioned um by William, one story along Tampa Bay Golf and Country Club. This project is If we you master planned a project to kind of occur like this, this is how it would occur in in my view. You have garden style apartments to the west. You have single family detached to the west, you have townhomes to the west. You have commercial to the north. And wrapping around a little bit to the northeast, you have this project, and then you have a 55 and over community. You

   2:09:09have all the pieces of of a master plan. You have an existing road, um, Old Pasco that's been improved. It already has a five-foot sidewalk. Which, unlike a lot of roads, it already has a five foot sidewalk on the east side, a ten foot trail on the west. Fifty two has been improved in this area. Also has sidewalks and trails. The it'll be a h this will be a high end uh what's called a build to rent project. It will complement the two million square feet of corporate corporate business park that you to the

   2:09:39west that you just approved. P 76, we are P77, last but least today I see, and the four million square feet of industrial and 725,000 square feet of office that you approved to the east of this project, P72. Um I have my team available here. And we have met with the the neighbor with the neighboring Homeowners Association. They have expressed their support. I know there's somebody online. I don't know who that is, but

   2:10:09would be ready to uh respond uh once we hear uh what uh they have to say. Thank you.

   StarkeyChair

   2:10:16Thank you. Um board members, any questions?

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:10:18Yeah, Barbara, please stay. The picture that you showed me when we met a while ago, do you have that aerial shot with the with the map?

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:10:26We can get it up.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:10:27Right. There were some changes that I recommended. Did they get incorporated in?

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:10:32You wanted two units moved and they are They cannot just change their site that quickly, so they will continue to consider that, but they have not uh changed their plan.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:10:46What's wrong with the walkways?

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:10:49So we talked to staff about um I talked to staff, not we, I talked to staff and staff needs to to talk about that. One thing that we learned and in the meeting subsequent to yours with one of the other commissioners um was that the orange boat Orange Belt Trail when it comes up to Bell and me is gonna take a jog to the north, so the This may be an offshoot of the Orange Belt Trail. Um Coming down our way. but would not be the Orange Book Belt Trail 'cause it's

   2:11:19going to jog to the north at Bellamy and we are at Old Pasco. So that's kind of a change. So In Once we learn that and talking to Terry Pitos with the existing sidewalk infrastructure that's already in place. They um didn't think the spend for additional uh using mobility fees to put more uh pavement for pedestrians and bikes in this location, especially because to

   2:11:49the south. It's gonna be Um It's gonna be what the existing is, the five feet sidewalk on this side, uh would be something that they'd wanna support. But I'll let it I'll let Terry respond to you. If you want us to build a sidewalk off site for mobility fee credits, we can certainly do that. But it's you're spending the money doing that.

   StarkeyChair

   2:12:11Yes. We don't know which way the orange belt's gonna go if it's gonna continue down Old Pasco. I mean uh down the route to Old Pasco. And then it's gonna be an offshoot going north. That is undetermined. Okay.

   2:12:28But it will be connecting to Old Pasco Road. And then heading south because there's there's a there are a lot of schools down on the South of this. And um but I d I believe that the trail is on the west side of this road already.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:12:43The trail is on the wider path, the ten foot path is on the west side of Old Pasco. Our side has a five foot sidewalk. Internally what we can control is our sidewalks and we are doing a eight foot eight foot path. Um Ten? Five. Five foot. Well we well we have we have connections to the north and one's a multi use. Yeah. Eight foot. We what we can do is within our project And what staff has asked us to do is make an eight-foot path going to the north, within our project connecting

   2:13:14to the commercial parcel and a five-foot sidewalk to go to the north. And those are set up on a grid. As you can see, our pedestrian and our open spaces are all based upon a grid, so they're all connected and and designed that way. So to the left is that that you can see where the yellow is, that's the eight foot path. To the right is the five foot sidewalk. Already in Old Pasco, there is a five foot sidewalk. The discussion with Commissioner Mariano was whether

   2:13:44to make an it do an additional sidewalk or path of eight feet or so uh within the Old Pasco right away going to the north and up your right of way. That would be a you know a mobility fee project. You'd be using your bike ped fees for that. You don't have a ton of those, but again we That's really a discussion for you to have with staff. We're not opposed to doing an off-site project for mobility fee credits to the extent that we have enough to pay for that off-site project with credits. But

   2:14:14uh that was that's the conversations and the conversations with staff and what we've done with our project that we control.

   StarkeyChair

   2:14:21Commission Mariano. Um Uh and and So in my mind it someone can tell me if I'm wrong or A five foot sidewalk is not a path. Yeah, we need to have a definition. That a path is a minimum of X amount of feet, but it's not five feet. First of all. Um And so and I had mentioned that about the The the recreational opportunity going around

   2:14:52that pond at the front Um

   2:14:57that should not be five feet, that should be wider. And I had made the suggestion of going round the other pond too, but Um just It I don't think you can call a sidewalk a path.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:15:08personally. Madam Chairman Mariano.

   2:15:13in the two units that I talked about, if you look where it says open play area

   2:15:18For all these people out here? Those two lots there, that could open up that land to be a much better play area. around that whole lake, I think they should have a walking trail, walking path for amenity inside. everywhere along from Old Pasco Road on their property, running all the way up to the top of their property, because the other two yellow areas aren't going to be built in who knows when, it should be at least an eight foot path running all the way north south. So if people are going to cross the street one way or the other or going up and down, they got a path in

   2:15:48place. It's gonna be it's a it's a busy road. It's gonna get busier.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:15:52If if I can say a couple things. One, I would never represent a sidewalk to be a path. Didn't do that. Yeah, I I don't do that. Yeah, I agree. I agree a path is eight, ten, minimum eight, sidewalks are or five, four, you know, depending on where they're at. Sometimes they're less. With regard to the parks, we have over three acres of parks. Um My only client, multi you know, this is in the multifamily category, although it's not garden style multifamily. My only client that is exceeding

   2:16:22your neighborhood parks ordinance. So the minimum requirement for neighborhood parks is a half acre. The park we're looking at is 0.7. The park next to their menity area is an acre. These are And the linear parks If I could s if I could see it I would I could st uh you know close enough up enough, but the linear parks exceed the half acre as well. So As m Mr. Pitos could probably explain to you because he says it often This is the site plan of a a

   2:16:52of high quality build to rent project. Uh he has actually asked for their material so he can as other people come into pre-app with him he can share it with them and say this is what I'd like to see. So

   Moore

   2:17:05I just say and and listen I and again as always I appreciate everybody's comments. But my comment on this is Um we're talking about the internal project itself and and the sidewalks and in in the parks, okay, they're following they're going above and beyond already what what what the what's required. If somebody's gonna go in there and want to lease one of these units They're gonna look around. If they don't think the sidewalks or or quote paths are wide enough, they won't go there. Don't make

   2:17:35a different choice. So let the consumer make their choice once they drive in, do they like it or they don't like it? I mean we don't need to do the architecture for 'em.

   StarkeyChair

   2:17:44No, but it it just it matters if you're calling uh a path part of your recreational uh park space or we

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:17:55we are not trying to lot of your

   Moore

   2:17:57above and beyond already. They've already gone above and

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:17:59beyond a lot of our applicants Put pawns around Stormwater Pond put PAS PAS around Stormwater Ponds to get cred credit um against the neighborhood park requirement. But uh that is not the case here. It's not the why we why we show that amenity around our pond. It's in addition to the park space, actual open space park space meeting the minimum requirements that exceeds your code.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:18:25Madam Clerk. Commissioner Moore, these are like apartments? They're just different? The rental rent rental product is out there. All the attractions that are gonna go on all around it. and hard to get to places 'cause Old Pasco Road, you don't have transportation to go up and down.

   Moore

   2:18:41I'm talking about internally.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:18:42No, no, and I'm saying I want to see more internal stuff to keep people in there. They gotta ignore. Going from spot to spot. I mean, literally is it is it too much to ask a trail going up and down on the roadway? Was it too much for us for a trailer going around that lake? I mean never

   StarkeyChair

   2:18:57I I thought when uh when uh in m the meeting that they agreed to make that a continuous circle, but is that not the case?

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:19:05I'll have my client answer. Um trying to remember. We are talking about a sp very specific plan. I understand that. We we brought it forward so we you know we're it's not that that's not what we're doing, so um but uh he can respond regarding the What he intends to do around that uh pond feature there.

   Moore

   2:19:25Matter of trying I think you have public comment too. So

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:19:28I know, but uh these are questions I asked before and I was.

   Moore

   2:19:30Oh no, I understand.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:19:35Yeah. I mean it it's you know, let's let's face it, this is a huge bump in density. And we want to build

   2:19:43And I'm just thinking that if we're gonna give this much density, let's give A little bit better of a situation for our people that are renting, not gonna be buying. We have no control what happens later on. Let's make it as good a place as we can. And I think those two things I've just mentioned, I don't I don't think it's extraordinary.

   StarkeyChair

   2:20:00So and and so And I I think this is a really nice layout and a nice project. But If you look over here where it says park equals point five acres. Um the access to those houses. is from that sidewalk lining the park. So the park the green space in the middle Is Is the park. But up here where it says park equals one point two acres. The sidewalk Well,

   2:20:31Okay, wait. How do you access where which is the front which is the right-of-way? Can I speak for

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:20:36for one moment

   StarkeyChair

   2:20:36on this?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:20:37These these are site review elements that are done after the site is engineered. Okay, so we're

   2:20:42going to be able to do that

   2:20:42we will look at access and connections and all those things and we're getting very far in the weeds for this is a very generic concept plan. We understand I think what the board is looking for here. I also wanted to address the uh the discussion of paths versus sidewalks. Uh in this particular case, uh these these are more pedestrian interconnects uh with one standard interconnect which would be the five foot going to the north and then uh something that's a little bit upgraded, which would be the eight-foot. Paths are something we talk about when we talk about submiss longer. You know, you're going along a street. This is basically

   2:21:12connecting two properties. So it's a little bit of a different concept as far as how that's defined. And I don't I don't think the the applicant has uh in any way misled anyone as as to kind of those or they're going above and beyond trying to make those interconnects so you have options, putting them in locations where they make sense uh to have that connectivity. So just want to clarify that a little bit. But we can we can certainly at the time of site plan we uh we hear you and we hear what you're asking uh as far as having things internal to the site, connections inside in this site, um given

   2:21:43the type of product that it's intended to be, uh to make sure that that, you know, to the extent that we can work with the client to get that to happen.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:21:50Mm, Madam Chair.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:21:51Yeah.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:21:52When I look and I'm I'm glad you mentioned that a little bit clearer because that just when When I look at our park ordinance that we have in place, I don't think Where it says the northern part was as one point two acres and you get that linear path right between the back of townhomes, do you really think it's a park? What can you do there? You're gonna play football there? Soccer? You have a sidewalk right in the middle of a roadway with how much space is between those areas? I don't even think that qualifies. Um It's I don't I don't think it was the intent. You got little another little

   2:22:22area here? Loaded with trees in there. I don't know if it can be cleared out or not. Um that little other little space that's right over there? I just don't think it meets the intent. I I really I actually feel even stronger now about even those two homes. That acre of where it says 0.7 acres to the side of the pond. That whole area should be a park.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:22:47I I I can speak to that very very briefly. The the uh the way the parks ordinance reads was was changed several years ago, I think. Uh it was to allow a variety of options, not just large parks that were just open space, and it allowed some microparks and linear parks. Those linear parks need to be 30 feet wide. Uh and they are geared towards uh programming for people that use things like trails, jogging trails, walking trails. with amenities and things like that to be allowed to be included in the parks calculation. But all of those things are looked at at site plan. It's dependent on the number of units.

   StarkeyChair

   2:23:16But a trail is not a sidewalk, is that right?

   2:23:21That's what I'm asking. I mean it's a interesting internal

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:23:24to a internal to a site it's it's it's a just an amenity to the site. It really when you're talking about how something connects to another area, that's your that's your trail, that's your path, that's your connection. Um this could be an amenity, however they they choose to design it and we can look at it. Our parks team will review it and say whether or not it complies with the code that uh Commissioner Mariano was speaking to, if they believe that it does comply or does not comply, or if they want something different there.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:23:48Will it have playgrounds and activities for the

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:23:51kids? I would have to the applicant address that

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:23:58So I'm again we'll have Jeremy come on up with his project and he can talk to you about his programming of his project.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:24:05Hey, Jeremy Knuckles [address removed] in Lut Beach 32461. Um so no, our project does not have playgrounds in it. We design our projects and the programs specific to the demographics that we are typically seeing in these projects. We have several of these projects around the southeast, and um we are not seeing a high level of Um Families with kids. We're seeing predominantly retirees, we're seeing um empty nesters, and

   2:24:36we are seeing um newly married couples.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:24:38And I forgot to ask do you have the breakdown again of the four-page the breakdown? The newlyweds or

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:24:46we think it's roughly about f 60 percent uh retirees empty nesters and then the rest. um you know forty percent single family or sorry forty percent young professionals newly married.

   2:25:00And as far as the parking lot of the easement we are showing three acres of on there dedicated we have over seven acres of linear park space in that site plan.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:25:10And it dawned on me because the goal is to have a park within one mile for kids. So if we have this density and no playground there, then we're gonna have to build a playground.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:25:25Well, I can assure you that if we end up as we operate all of these, um if we end up with a high high number of families with young kids, that's something that we typically retroactively come back and put in our projects.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:25:45I think that's a good idea.

   2:25:47How are you gonna retro w when you have no space available, everything's built out the way this is built out, where are they gonna retroactively spit? Good. You've got a school Down the street. You got a tremendous population road, you got a little two-lane road now gonna be expanded out. It's gonna be heavy traffic. It's heavy traffic now.

   2:26:05I mean look at look look at the Yeah. Look at look at the point five acres on the right hand of the screen. That's a park. That's an area between homes, all that is to give some space, which is good. I think it's a nice amenity, but I thought it's a I don't think it's a park. The linear park that you have up there, I think it's amenity, but I don't think it's a park. You've got that little one acre piece that's over there that's got a sidewalk between it. I don't know what you're gonna put in there. And if you have seniors, I don't see anything for What seems to be the most popular is pickleball courts. I don't see any of that out there. And how are you gonna put that in Africa?

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:26:37So Commissioner is we uh he's explained to you how much acreage he has in open space and the ability to And

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:26:42I'm looking at it, Barbara, and I don't think that

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:26:44little

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:26:45spaces between Townhomes or apartments.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:26:48And we're telling you that you exceed the you have a neighborhood parks ordinance, this project exceeds it, meets the requirements. You know, I bring forward a site plan to show you and then this is kind of what I get. It's pretty frustrating. You you approved. I talked to the subfront though. You approved do two BTRs m over Miranda. Approved.

   2:27:11We exceed anything on we've ever uh the staff's ever been shown. And then we still have to stand here and and have our site plan. picked at and I can't tell you how disappointing that is. Um There this is not an unthoughtful project. This is not I have clients that will ask me to, I don't won't present it to the county. I have leftover pie remnants of pieces on my property. Can you claim those? Can we claim those as neighborhood parks? And and the staff looks at it immediately and goes, Yeah, no. And I

   2:27:41only it won't even present it to the county, but This is not a situation where they have leftover pieces. All these all of this is planned Yeah. Mm-hmm. Jeremy is a is a planner. He's an art landscape architect.

   2:27:56Yeah. They did watercolor, worked for Saint Joe. I mean we're talking about somebody who doesn't just do stuff to do it and to cram things in. This is thoughtfully done. This is I mean I would I would really like to hear Terry Pito speak to the plan, your plan or speak to and critique or explain what he thinks about this plan. Um Uh maybe perhaps that would 'cause I can't convince you it sounds like, um, of what a good plan this is, but maybe the district commission would

   Fitzpatrick

   2:28:26be

   2:28:26a good idea.

   2:28:27Well I do see Barbara, uh one acre up here in point seven. So I can see where he could retrofit like a playground. But at what point do you would you recommend a playground? What percentage of because if we're going to have to implement a playground or something within Yeah.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:28:44Your code does not require any pr playgrounds for anybody. Right.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:28:49I'll address that later.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:28:51I'm sorry. But you code retrofit, so I can see. But you're in the realm of telling them now to do a playground when they've told you their demographics won't support it, when your code doesn't require a playground. Um

   Oakley

   2:29:02Commissioner Oakley. This actually is a very good project. It's done very well. Uh when you think of an oldly family a lot of times you think of vertical and You got all this, no room, no parking, no n none of that. But this actually is done very well. And it fits the property. fits the community. It doesn't look like a rental unit. It it does look like homes for people that won't live there. And I I leave it up to

   2:29:32you to if you need a playground equipment, but Sounds to me you're gonna have most of your people are gonna be uh newly married folks and and seniors or people Uh downsizing from a bigger home to to this kind of project. So but it really fits This area very well.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:29:51Well, thank you very much. And I just want to point out we are not eliminating playgrounds because it's not a cost. This is a heavily amenitized project. It is directly what our business program is. And that's what we feel like the residents that we are typically seeing at our assets want. That's what we're trying to deliver. So number one being connectivity throughout there and again there's seven acres of open space on this.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:30:21So I and I talk with you. Why wouldn't you put around a walkway around that whole lake?

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:30:27Um The lake in the front, we're not against putting a walkway around. We we didn't want to affect any of the clearing in the uh the large lake to the back. And it and this is a concept plan. I will speak to that. You see that center, that park to the north, you're just seeing a sidewalk down through the center. That is this was to get a concept plan in front of you for rezoning. Once we get to detail on the sidewalks we'll We'll you know, show you exactly where all the sidewalks go, how the connectivity is. that park

   2:30:57on the on the north, that linear park, it would have a sidewalk running down each side. It wouldn't have a park running down the center.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:31:03Right. And what about running a eight foot path running north south on Old Pasco Road?

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:31:09Well Currently there's the five foot path.

   2:31:14And you know, I is that in is that in the code for for the eight?

   StarkeyChair

   2:31:21Uh uh Terry stepping up.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:31:23Yeah, we need to have staff because you're asking about an off site improvement. Yes, we can talk about our on site, but you need to figure out the off site because if you don't figure out the off site part of it, what you're gonna do or what we are gonna have do the north for mobility fee credits it then we don't have anything to connect to. So let me let's have Terry kind of to talk to you all and then let's we can circle back.

   StarkeyChair

   2:31:40Yeah and and and I do have a question. How um how will people safely Well, are we programming and Sam's here? Um, not I don't know if Tina's here, but are we programming a way for these residents to be able to uh cross the street to get to the trail. Is there a well can we get make sure we get a crosswalk somewhere?

   Oakley

   2:32:01So uh Madam Chairman uh Nictorio Spitos of the Planning Development Department, if I can preface Sam real quick. Can we go back to the aerials really quick? On the in the presentation.

   2:32:15Mm-hmm. And I just want to kind of give an overall context of the area so that we can answer the question a little bit about the eight-foot paths on the east side of Old Pasco. Um so as you can see, um the site is right next to the to the I forget the official name, Tampa Bay Golf and Country Club. And if you notice further south of the subject site, it's the back of homes to the country club. And so

   2:32:46most of the population that lives in the country club is not really going to be accessing Old Pasco. Um, at least on a pedestrian scale, to go north. All the way to fifty two. Um so I think Project management can speak to the trail being on the west side of Old Pasco Road because there are the schools further to the south. And so all that all of the population in that area that's gonna be a seeking to access the schools are gonna be making their crossings at the

   2:33:16designated points and using the trail on the w on the west side of Old Pasco. On the east side of Old Pasco, I could see why there would be a sidewalk. that would uh run along the country club and then potentially along this side as well. and get you all the way north to fifty two. Um for this particular site, we in our discussions with the applicant, we uh decided that the sidewalk along fifty two would be f or Old Pasco rather, would be fine since the actual

   2:33:46trail is on the west side of Old Pasco and that internal to this site we could get this population which is separate from the country club to go north through their site and connect into the commercial property. Once into the commercial property the commercial property could then build uh whatever path network is necessary along 52 to take you from the this site on the east side of Old Pasco west to wherever the Orange Belt Trail um

   2:34:18ultimately would cross fifty two to get to the north side and and and over I seventy five. So that was some of the logic.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:34:26Yeah, but uh so let's think logically. So you got two openings to go north south in the middle of the property. What if that property doesn't develop? What are these people gonna do in between all that time? Where are they gonna go?

   Oakley

   2:34:36Uh you're referring to the commercial property.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:34:38So property you just talked about right c connecting to the north to get up to fifty two. If the other property never builds, that thing never connects, those people never go. This is gonna come in right now. Where are these people gonna go now?

   Oakley

   2:34:50Well I I think that's a that's an important question. Uh I think we're In some respects, uh anticipating that property to develop because of its proximity to the interchange of fifty two and I seventy five and it being a uh a viable commercial development site. Uh so it this is kind of a situation where this is coming in first and and and we anticipate the commercial site to be coming in soon thereafter.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:35:17I'm good to keep it in there if you need it, but for right now when the people come in, instead of having a five foot path Why wouldn't you say an eight foot path would be better?

   StarkeyChair

   2:35:26But Jack, what's that gonna connect to?

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:35:28Get 'em well the eventually up to fifty two and may and we may even put a project into fifty two if we want to go up there.

   StarkeyChair

   2:35:33I'm I'm okay with having that Having a a a multi use path on one side of the road? I don't think we need it on both sides personally, but I I would like there to be Um that our traffic management has to figure Is it possible to have a crosswalk, painted crosswalk to get to the other side of the street? But we're way ahead of ourselves on that. So um so And and and I my my question about path versus sidewalk is is kind of a big picture question for staff

   2:36:04that we need to be sure we're Using not using a sidewalk as a a park like feature when a path is a recreational park like feature. And we have to be sure to differentiate between the two. And I'm not saying he is, I'm just saying that in a in a big picture I mean y if if we're gonna say a five foot sidewalk is recreation, then every single neighborhood's gonna come in and use their five foot sidewalk. wrapping around their streets a as part of their park

   2:36:34calculations. And we don't want that. So that that's all I was Saying we gotta differentiate between the two, in my opinion.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:36:43So as we want to build s a nice place for people to go.

   2:36:49Well, it's a good idea.

   StarkeyChair

   2:36:53So a bill to rent, I think, is a new animal for all of us and we just need to look, you know, I I'd kinda like to go back at the ones we've approved and I think we made some mistakes. Um I think this is the best one we've seen come forward personally. Um Would we like to see a little more open space? I mean some more Yeah.

   2:37:15Um we just want blank on our screens, that's what um

   2:37:20I got you know, for me I would but I think, you know, they'll start they'll start doing their They'll start doing their plans in a little more detail and maybe they'll figure out a way to have a little more open space 'cause I think that would be good, but I'm okay with it as it is right now.

   2:37:44Yeah, is there anyone here to speak to this item?

   StarkeyChair

   2:37:46Uh Madam Chair, we have one person that was online, uh still there. Okay. Uh it would be Elaine Ayan.

   Elaine Ayin

   2:37:58Hi. Can you hear me?

   StarkeyChair

   2:38:00Yes ma'am. Go ahead.

   Elaine Ayin

   2:38:03Hi. Uh my name is Elaine Ayin. I live at [address removed], and I'm a resident of the Tampa Bay Golf and Country Club. I and dozens of my neighbors

   StarkeyChair

   2:38:15online at the time that you were uh I administered the oath or D are you

   Elaine Ayin

   2:38:21I was.

   StarkeyChair

   2:38:21You acknowledge that. Thank you.

   Elaine Ayin

   2:38:24Yes. Um I and dozens of my neighbors opposed the Stillwell rezoning application and I would have spoken at the July Planning Commission meeting but was out of state. Listening today to all the agenda items this afternoon, I see that there are six separate items for rezon rezoning just on today's agenda, which creates over 7,000 new homes and millions of industrial retail square footage. And that's just today's agenda.

   2:38:54in just this year within a couple miles of my house Dozens more projects have already been approved. tens of thousands more houses and millions more retail office footage. The approvals seem to be done in a routine manner like all is well, but I'm here to tell you something I have to think you already know, and that's that it's not all well. Already Pasco is the third busiest county in the state for EMS calls. At the August 9th board meeting,

   2:39:25two people spoke of the dangerously long response times from Pasco Fire EMS. One of the speakers said this matter had been brought to your attention a full year ago. Since then, has anything been done to fix this? As the Laker Lutz News noted last week, the fire department is not even able to meet national standards. For response times right now. How will this not be a catastrophe when all these approved projects are built

   2:39:55and inhabited, adding tens of thousands of residents? The county's firefighters have been asking the board for its help. This is a public safety issue, which should be a top priority. You're not doing Pasco County residents any favors by building them new houses and inviting thousands of new people to move in when our public safety infrastructure has not and cannot keep them safe. So to summarize, Pasco Fire EMS is struggling and has repeatedly

   2:40:26asked for the board's help. Instead, the board is approving thousands and thousands of new housing units every single month. It is inevitable the county will see an increase in traffic accidents, fires, and medical emergencies. How is it responsible to continue to approve such rapid new growth without properly resolving the essential fire EMS public safety concern? I urge you to pause rezoning approvals, at least in the Route

   2:40:565275 area. People's lives are truly at stake, and this is why I and my neighbors oppose the Stillwell rezoning.

   StarkeyChair

   2:41:05Thank you. All right, I think our uh County Administrator, can you respond to the fire um questions to um make sure she's aware of all the money and projects that are coming in regards to f Fire rescue.

   Mike Carballa

   2:41:21Yeah, from a from a large overview perspective, we we have a number of new fire stations that are either under construction, under design, or in process. We recognize that we're catching up on a lot of that. Uh we're also uh putting a lot more money into additional apparatus and equipment for fire rescue. So those those items are are coming forward. A a large chunk actually of the new proposed budget is is coming forward with investments in fire rescue. So those those investments are being made and and are forthcoming. And recognize these developments take time to come online as well. So

   StarkeyChair

   2:41:50Yeah, th so thank you very much. Um That was

   StarkeyChair

   2:41:55the only one we had signed up.

   Moore

   2:41:57Madam Chairman

   StarkeyChair

   2:41:58Mariano

   Moore

   2:42:01It doesn't sound like it's there we go. Okay. Um Barbara you ready?

   2:42:09And I and I you know, again for the record, I I did meet with um Barbara and her client and obviously had questions and and went through this as well. Um and you mentioned to me That you had conversations with the leadership at Timba Bay Golf and Country Club?

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:42:25Yes, I'll have my team can they'd had those conversations so let them tell you about it.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:42:31Yes, we did. The uh there are ten HOAs within there. There is one HOA that abuts our property um along both sides. And um we did meet multiple times with the president of the HOA. He's here for the Planning Commission meeting. And he has also had several conversations with people on his streets within the HOA that he's the overseas. We did reach out to the master HOA. That was first, but secondarily we went to the one that we abutted.

   Moore

   2:43:01Okay, so none of them objected. And you could stay just for the record sake. All right. So one of the things you explained to me that you did again was that buffering. They had concerns. Instead of doing two instead of doing two story homes, you decided to do one story homes along what's going to be essentially be a r a new retention pond which would cause would add extra bufferage.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:43:26On the east, well we actually did that proactively as a as something we felt was a good transition to those single family homes.

   Moore

   2:43:34Yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:43:34Um You saw the first concept that was submitted at one stormwater pond in the northeast corner. Um after we looked at a lot of the uh the topo. We decided it would be best to break our ponds in two and that gave us the opportunity to provide that buffer. So it's about a hundred and fifty foot buffer along the eastern property boundary before you get to any of our units. And those units are one story.

   Moore

   2:44:00Well, I don't play as much anymore, but my son plays a lot of golf at Tiju Bay County golf country club for the golf team he was on at Cypress Creek and stuff. So I spent a lot of time watching him. And I'll go play the nine hole course out there. I can still handle that these days. Um But um you know, good people there. I wonder that's one of the things that I you know I was questioning to make sure that, you know, you did work with those HOAs and those residents there because they are important part of our our community and one of the things that did kind of resonate with me, well the big thing is we're not

   2:44:30trying to rezone a commercial or office property and take away once again job creating sites which Mm. We all know I have an issue with that. Um

   2:44:44But a lot since a lot of the residents that will be coming here are um fifty five and up. I do like the location because now they'll be able to use the amenities next door too. They golf and country clubs. I know they'll have 'cause it is you can it is a public course at the same time you can play there. Um the public can play on that golf course. Um and they have a great eighteen hole in the in the nine hole as well. So it'll probably help, you know Just make an assumption, maybe incre increase the revenue at the golf courses and during

   StarkeyChair

   2:45:13it.

   Moore

   2:45:13D during down times. But they and they stay pretty busy there, but it'll it would uh probably help that as well. But it would give those um seniors that are moving here that maybe are the point where like we said you know, still want to remain in a home. in a in a true home, um versus a multi story apartment complex, which I like this so much better. Um for our area at least, then um they'll be able to you know The affordability. Maybe they don't want to buy the

   2:45:43house next door or can't or some of the people that are probably at Play Golf and Country Club may end up selling their house when since the market's so good and moving to the rental.

   StarkeyChair

   2:45:52Traveling

   Moore

   2:45:53with their equity. The home. But they'll be able to utilize it. So I I mean I I I'm I'm listen, I'm fine with this again, just for the reasons I stated.

   StarkeyChair

   2:46:00You know, uh interesting that

   Moore

   2:46:02And I understand your concerns, so

   StarkeyChair

   2:46:03me too me too and I think

   Moore

   2:46:05you know

   StarkeyChair

   2:46:06We we gotta look at that as a in a big picture.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:46:09I'm looking big picture and I'm not I don't think I'm I don't think I'm asking for too much. I mean if he's gotta move because of that one pond he can't put the sidewalk all the way around it? Yeah. You'll put

   Moore

   2:46:18the sidewalk around the pond, right?

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:46:20The one yes, uh the one in the front, the north or I'm sorry, on the w

   StarkeyChair

   2:46:24sidewalk or a path?

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:46:26What would you like? A path.

   Moore

   2:46:28Give them eight feet.

   StarkeyChair

   2:46:29So people can walk side by side or a parent can walk with their kid on a trake or something like that. Yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:46:36We do not we we don't want to clear any more than we have to

   StarkeyChair

   2:46:40agreed on that back one.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:46:42Yeah.

   StarkeyChair

   2:46:42Um so an interesting point that um Surfaced. You know, th these people on Old Pasco have probably and this is kinda to the collar on the phone. These people have probably lived here a long time. When I look at the name Commissioner Oakley. McKendry. Um Probably not. probably lived here for a long time and felt that when this neighborhood came into their east Probably was a big change for them.

   Chairman

   2:47:13Yeah.

   StarkeyChair

   2:47:13Right? So change changes here. And I'm sure um But your neighborhood had an effect on this this person's very

   2:47:25Much more rural lifestyle, but But th this area. is going to be um Build in um As time goes by. Because everyone wants to live in Florida right now.

   Moore

   2:47:38These price points are pretty I'm not trying to knock you, but they're pretty high. I mean it's not a bad thing, but I mean I'm saying they're pretty high price points. Um for homes.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:47:46Yeah. Th these are typically at a premium over your

   Moore

   2:47:50garden

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:47:50style.

   Moore

   2:47:51You'd be at a about you'd probably be able to get about a eight hundred thousand dollar house for the mortgage you would pay for a for those homes. Just being honest.

   StarkeyChair

   2:47:58Commissioner Oakley and then I have one more point

   Oakley

   2:48:00and then I think we can call the vote.

   2:48:03I like I pretty much like the design. I appreciate the questions Mr. Mariano had today. I think that helps you in your final design of what you're gonna do. Um And What you can put put together to make this even better than what I think it already is. will be great for our citizens and it's a good project. It's it's got a different look than what most people have are used to. And and it it'll be a good project in this area. So

   StarkeyChair

   2:48:32So um uh so on on that point uh as we're getting more of these BTRs, built to rents, I think what w we're gonna be calling them. Um it's something I had asked um And I met with this applicant twice. um was about architectural detail because we just put some restrictions in on a single family but because this falls under apartments, we don't have any of those for apartments. So I've asked Terry to bring us back or or by memo or something to

   2:49:02um make sure that we're catching the quality in these as well. Um but I can tell you that this one does that um without I mean I've got the renderings and they're putting in a lot of architectural detail and I think this will be a real asset to the community.

   Moore

   2:49:18Madam Chair, I won't be here for it but when you guys redo I know you're working on this, when you redo the comp plan I mean, can we change the name when we have townhomes and single family homes whether they're for rent or sale to just get away from the apartments. Call 'em something else. Rental single family homes. Townhouses, which what they are.

   2:49:41No,

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:49:41there you go. There you go.

   2:49:43Maybe when I'm on vacation I'll come up with something.

   StarkeyChair

   2:49:45My husband says deconstruct an apartment. I think somebody on it. Can you put

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:49:50the map up again?

   Fitzpatrick

   2:49:59While they were doing that, just to let the lady know about public safety, there's a hundred and thirteen new firefighters coming in this year and twenty five just to help with overtime, so No more scare.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:50:13Uh so with the layout. If you don't want to do the outside path for an eight foot path

   2:50:22What if you just bring an eight foot path? Where that five foot path is right next to your town homes.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:50:31I'm not sure which which path you're referring to.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:50:33So in the very le top left of the screen, There's a s they got a single path and then the roadway goes and then there's like a double path that comes down. One's on the edge of the old Pasco Road, one's on the other side.

   2:50:46If you just make that an eight foot path. We'll go one side. Where the your townhomes are or your apartments are.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:50:54Oh that's fine.

   2:50:57That's the front of their homes. That's their walkway to their front door.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:51:01I mean I'd rather have it on the outside edge, but if it's either on the inside edge, I don't care. But something where those families going up and down are gonna have a little more room. Like you say to go walk.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:51:12Yeah, I mean we can we can make that work. Okay. As far as an eight foot path there.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:51:17Well are you gonna keep the path along the road for the kids to walk to school, but then you're gonna have a walkway for them to get into their homes.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:51:28As long as it either one of those paths was an eight foot path. I'm comfortable either way. If it go all if we go all the way down. Great if you go around the path. You're going on the lake anyway. I don't think it's a good idea.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:51:37So the the one on the west exists. So that's the five foot path. The I'm sorry, the five foot sidewalk. The the one the the one that's east of that, paralleling it, does not exist. So that's the one you're requesting to be a an eight foot wide sidewalk.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:51:53Okay, so there's if there's only one yes.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:51:56Yeah, we can do that. Okay.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:51:58Yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:51:58And I and to your concerns on the park space, I think when you see detailed plans you'll see how big these park spaces are. I mean, they're sixty feet wide.

   MarianoVice Chair

   2:52:07You working the eight foot path up and down, I'm gonna relent on the other two units.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:52:11Thank you.

   StarkeyChair

   2:52:13Okay, let's call it let's get a motion to second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay, thank you.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:52:21Thank you, Commissioner.

   StarkeyChair

   2:52:23Is that it? Are we done? No, if we're going

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:52:26anywhere.

   StarkeyChair

   2:52:27Yeah, exactly. Sounds like a hurricane outside, isn't it? No

   Chairman

   2:52:30did I.