PDD-23-7622

Every appearance1 of 2 are in a recording

Each appearance carries the official title above. Where the county’s wording changed, the change is marked: added and removed. Steps with no marks were worded identically.

TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 84% of 144 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong. 1 of the 2 appearances are not in any recording, so what was said at those is not here.

1. 1Mar 2, 2023
   Planning CommissionPC8Public hearingNo disposition in the minutes

   Open this item →▶ Play from 22:00
   ▶ 22:001m1/2

   Denise

   22:00Okay. PC eight is PDD twenty three seven six two two. This is a zoning amendment in the name of JSN Clinton, MPUD Master Plan Unit Development. JSN Clinton LLC, this is a rezoning request from AR Agricultural Residential, AR One Agricultural Residential, C2 General Commercial, and MPUD Master Plan Unit Development Districts to an MPUD Master Planning United Development District to allow for a maximum of 196. single family attached slash townhome dwelling units and associated infrastructure on approximately 27.36

   22:31acres. There's an ex parte for this item from Jamie Girardi and John Moody. This comes to you with a recommendation of approval with conditions as included in your agenda packet.

   Charles GreyChair

   22:41All right. The applicant present. This is uh consent.

   School District Representative

   22:46Mr. Chairman, I'd like to have that one polled. I got a question on that one.

   Charles GreyChair

   22:49I can have it polled. Yeah. B C eight. Okay, so we're gonna pull B C eight.

   22:59Okay.

   ▶ 29:1818m2/2

   Denise

   29:18All right, and if I'm following this correctly, we're now gonna move on to item PC eight, which was pulled.

   Charles GreyChair

   29:28C eight, yeah, you see eight. Right.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   29:35Ken Snyder, Planning and Development. Did you walk the whole presentation, Richard? No. Okay. Did you just had a question?

   School District Representative

   29:42Yeah. This is on Fort King Road and we have a high school. About a mile and a half up to the north of that. So I just wanna can you give me some information on how the uh sidewalks and Along Fort King Road, how's that's gonna work? 'Cause these students will probably be walking 'cause they're with Not within the busing.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   30:00They

   School District Representative

   30:01will

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   30:01be required to follow the code, so they will be uh required to install a sidewalk along Fort King Ray.

   School District Representative

   30:06Okay. On their portion of the property.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   30:08Correct.

   School District Representative

   30:09Okay. About four foot wide.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   30:11Pardon?

   School District Representative

   30:12Is it four feet wide?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   30:13Five feet. Five

   School District Representative

   30:14feet.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   30:14Five

   School District Representative

   30:15feet wide. Okay. There was also something, let me go to the agenda.

   30:31On the finding of facts number three. Can you just sort of explain that on the map?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   30:38I don't have any front of me, I apologize.

   School District Representative

   30:40Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   30:40We're just finding a fact number three.

   School District Representative

   30:46It talks about all the trails and stuff like that.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   30:54Right.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   30:57Basically what this is saying is there are are no trails within this pro within this property.

   School District Representative

   31:02Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   31:04There are there are conceptual planned and funded trails in the vicinity, but this property will not be responsible for any of those because they're not a buddy in the room.

   School District Representative

   31:15Okay. I just wanna make sure that the you know the the schools to the north, so Fort King it'd be a good you know good idea to have that

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   31:22Right.

   31:28Road proposed.

   School District Representative

   31:29Okay. And I did see some sidewalks up there too, a little bit to the north. So Okay. thank you.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   31:35That's it. So Mr. Chone, I just want to make sure Tammy's answer is clear. The developers are only gonna put sidewalks to the bound along the boundaries of their project. You s you talked about the school being fairly far north. That means either the county or the school district would have to fund whatever the missing gap is.

   School District Representative

   31:59Walking to the sidewalk where it ends and then they'll be on the grass, basically.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   32:03Does the school district consider that a safe route?

   School District Representative

   32:07I would have to defer to our traffic safety committee and to see what they say. But I can bring that up at the next meeting.

   32:18I looked uh it's about one and a half miles away.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   32:22So so if I understand correctly This development's gonna put A sidewalk on the east side of Fort King Road. And the discussion there about the trail is on the west side of Fort King Road. Mm wouldn't it make sense to make him at least get to a crosswalk? To be able to get to the trail that goes all the way to the school.

   School District Representative

   32:45Yeah, that would make sense. And they're not going to walk down to the corner to go back north. If you know the crosswalks at Clinton and Fort King students aren't going to walk south and then turn around and go north. So then would make sense to put a sidewalk or a crosswalk somewhere up there along the project.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   32:59Yeah. But I also want to be clear with you. I don't know that the county has any immediate plans to put the trail on Fort King Road. It's the Jen Memela says it's a conceptual trail.

   33:10That leads me to believe it's a long ways away.

   School District Representative

   33:13Right. And that was the one reason why I pulled it, 'cause I wanna make sure that the we know you know, everyone knows that there's gonna be a gap there where the kids are gonna not be walking on the sidewalk.

   33:25Now how many students that is? We'll s we'll see and it'll be the high school, it won't be the middle school, won't be the elementary school. So some of 'em might drive, but there's a possibility that some will walk.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   33:37So you're saying for elementary and middle they would be bust?

   School District Representative

   33:42Most likely. And they wouldn't be walking to Yeah, they'd be definitely 'cause I'm thinking Pasco Middle. And Pasco High and they're more than Basco middle and Basco High is far further north. Okay,

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   33:52so middle and high it would be busts.

   School District Representative

   33:56High school they would not be bust. Elementary and middle they would.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   33:59Oh okay.

   School District Representative

   34:01Yeah. So the majority of the schools, but You know, maybe ninth, tenth, eleventh, twelfth. Would have to walk. Or parents would drive them. Or they would drive themselves.

   Charles GreyChair

   34:13So do you have any other remedies to suggest for that?

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   34:17What is the distance between their northern boundary of this project and school site? Does anybody know?

   34:26I think you said about a mile and a half.

   School District Representative

   34:27I'd have to l yeah. I was just going on the county website and it's about a mile and a half.

   34:33I can look real quick.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   34:36I mean, I don't have an immediate solution. I mean. Unless the developer's willing to build it for credits. there's no it's ultimately gonna require funding by the county or school district thro through you know, some safe routes to schools funding or other county or school district funding source.

   35:00But this is why I asked Mr. Channel whether you can have a safe route without a sidewalk.

   35:08Because my understanding is that it is Well ideally you have a sidewalk on all routes to schools. I think the school district does take the position that some areas can be a safe route even without a sidewalk.

   School District Representative

   35:23That's correct. I don't know what that criteria is, but I guess it kinda

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   35:27depends on how the lay of the land and that's

   School District Representative

   35:31the right-of-way.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   35:32I mean you could have some grass shoulders that are perfectly safe to walk on, but I don't know what this one looks like.

   School District Representative

   35:38Yeah.

   35:41'Cause walking in the grass is not unsafe, but As long as you've got the shoulder width that can Safely

   Charles GreyChair

   35:48walk to school. Right now they have the same problem when there's no development there.

   School District Representative

   35:52Pardon you?

   Charles GreyChair

   35:53If the y if there's no development there you still got the same problem probably.

   School District Representative

   35:58Yes, except well, you think you look at the houses that are there on the on the west side, they would have that problem. Mm-hmm.

   36:06If it's an issue and we don't at least uh Mention it then. I don't think we're doing the right thing.

   36:15Any recommendations?

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   36:18Well, th I will tell you that the county has been str struggling with this issue generally because it was the county's concern is that we were not the ones that took the position that you weren't gonna they weren't gonna bust people less than two miles. The school district did that unilaterally without really consulting the county. And so Now we're stuck trying to figure out how to deal with the issue and MPO has raised concerns about that. I think it's going to require some level of cooperation between the school district and the county to get

   36:48these school routes funded and made safe. I I don't know that there's an immediate solution. Like I said, unless the developer is willing to build it for credits, and we can ask Barbara just to see what the answer is, there is no immediate solution that I can think of. So ultimately gonna require the county or school district to fund this sidewalk. Okay.

   Barbara Wilhite

   37:15Good afternoon again. Barbara Wilhite, sixty three twenty seven Grand Boulevard, New Port Richey for the applicant. Got about a hundred and ninety homes here. I could do the math of the bike ped portion of the mobility fee and it's not gonna be enough to do that improvement. Plus I but we will pay our mobility fee. Well your solution for developers is the mobility fee and there's a portion of that for bike pad, there's a portion for transit, there's a portion pool portion for roads. But what I would say is that what from a perspective of the school board versus the the county and working

   37:45this out is that You need to prioritize. where you want those sidewalks based upon is it's safe now. And so One we our project couldn't afford to do it, but you also need to go through that process to prioritize where you want these and and and where you want it where you want them and In

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   38:04my understanding the Rizzi committee. Oh county staff and school board staff that does meet that includes some of our MPO staff as well. It does exactly what Barbara said, which is they try to prioritize which are the routes that need to be improved the quickest, but it's ultimately a money issue. Yep. You pick the ones that are most dangerous and you fund those first, basically.

   Barbara Wilhite

   38:27But you figure out, you

   38:28know,

   38:28like even said here, it's the high school and you who's actually driving versus walking and I mean you wouldn't want to throw all your money where nobody's actually walking, so But I I understand the issue, I appreciate the issue and uh We'll pay our portion of that bike head and Thank you.

   School District Representative

   38:46Thank you, Murray.

   38:49This would go to the board after this, correct?

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   38:53Yes, it goes to the board.

   School District Representative

   38:54Okay. So I mean I could find out with the safe schools and then just kinda go from there.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   39:00Yeah, I mean if you since you've raised the issue it might be helpful if you could email your findings to Tammy so that she can put a finding in her agenda memo about what whether it's a safe route in the absence of sidewalks. Not do that.

   Liam Devine

   39:22Okay.

   Charles GreyChair

   39:26All right. Is there any one else who'd like to speak on this?

   39:33Come forward please.

   39:44We can get your name and address, sir, and you w if you've been sworn.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   39:48Okay, my name's Ken Woodard. I live at [address removed]. My property, I live in immediately adjoining the eastern boundary of the property that uh y'all are talking about. Um I have that five acre five-acre piece that is immediately adjoining it. And um I was speaking to the Dade City Mayor.

   Charles GreyChair

   40:14And you've been sworn.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   40:16Yes, I have it.

   Charles GreyChair

   40:17Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   40:17Okay. Whatever I need to do. Uh I was talking to the the mayor of Dade City and uh there's no septic out through that way. Uh the closest one is like three quarters of a mile away and he said that he didn't believe that it was large enough to take uh 190 uh apartments units Um and so I don't know what y'all w what is your area of of consideration with this but that's a

   40:47problem. As well as the fact that adjoining this property. Um There's a big difference boy between what they're proposing and the subdivision that I'm part of. in the these houses in the subdivision. Two of them sold for $800,000. and you're putting in these apartments right next door to us. And we haven't got any information whether they're two-story and one story or any information about whether there's going to be a

   41:18wall of division between their complex and our subdivision. And there's a lot of concerns from those neighbors immediately adjoining.

   Charles GreyChair

   41:33Okay. Any anything else you'd like to add? Any questions from here?

   41:40Um Um if not, and if there's no one else, Barbara, did you like to come up and Right.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   41:47Yeah, I I guess maybe this question's for Leanne, but I I noticed on the master plan it it says right here that central water and wastewater will be permitted by Dade City. Will be provided by Dade City. So that's not the case and there's not capacity, I don't know. Is that is that true statement?

   Barbara Wilhite

   42:05Are you Closing public comment? Any rebuttal?

   Charles GreyChair

   42:08I don't see anybody else who wants to speak on it.

   Barbara Wilhite

   42:16So our we we checked with um obviously before we started this project, we check checked with the city of Dade City and they have uh advised that they will serve and they have capacity to serve.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   42:26Very good.

   Barbara Wilhite

   42:26Um we we're not doing apartments. I spoke with this gentleman the other day and I told him that we're not doing apartments, we're doing townhomes, fee simple townhomes. But he still wants to tell you that we're gonna do apartments. Um Offered to have him talk to my client and still that offer's still good. My client did call, didn't get a return call back. But between now and the board we'll be happy to work with this neighbor and share information as I shared with him the other day. Um And um I have my team available if we have any other questions.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   42:53So is there a buffer required along the east boundary of this MPUD and is west boundary?

   Barbara Wilhite

   43:01I'm gonna have Cindy if you wanna. The requirement's ten feet.

   Jon Moody

   43:06Is that a A

   Barbara Wilhite

   43:11He's they're asking you what what category of buffer under the code. So

   Charles GreyChair

   43:15the type A

   Barbara Wilhite

   43:18We'd have to check the code. The code sets forth what you do between them. The land uses.

   43:26Do you want me to look it up? Denise, are you looking it up? Anybody looking it up? I can grab my phone.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   43:32Phone frame?

   Barbara Wilhite

   43:35What a friend, yeah.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   43:40While they're looking it up, can I ask Barbara a question? Sure. Barbara do you know how close the closest county utilities are? Just in c I'm just wondering an abundance of caution if for some reason Dade City couldn't serve the project

   Barbara Wilhite

   43:57Yeah, it's type A to answer your question. And I do not have the utility answers other than knowing that the city confirmed. No.

   Cindy Terrapani

   44:08Cindy Terrapani, um one twenty eight East Harpen Avenue, I represent the developer in VR. Um to answer your question, Commissioner, um the engineer has at Coastal has spoken to the city of Dade City and has been assured that there is capacity to serve the project. Um with regard to the buffer, um it's residential to residential. So again, those are the exact same use. Um the fact that they are different lot sizes um is it's the Yeah. Well I thought I answered the question about the utilities. It is a it is available. We've been confirmed through the

   44:38engineer, Coastal Engineer who's the engineer, said that they are available. Again the the setback uh excuse me the buffer is a ten foot setback. It's called out on the on the uh MPD plan and it's what's required by code.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   44:51Thank you, Sandy. Well I s it doesn't really answer my question though. Do you know where the closest accounting utilities are?

   Cindy Terrapani

   44:58I'm sorry, I do not know where the where the connection would be. We do not have a project engineer here to be able to answer that, I'm sorry.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   45:06Well, the only reason I bring it up is that for some reason D City was unwilling to serve I assume Pasco County would serve. They would just make you bring the lines from wherever the curve Closest connection point is that

   Barbara Wilhite

   45:18would be the normal course.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   45:19So

   Barbara Wilhite

   45:21Yeah.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   45:22I'm just wondering if the note could be changed to say we're provided by Dave City or Pasco County and that's all the problem

   45:30Either way you're gonna get central water and sewer.

   Barbara Wilhite

   45:32That's correct.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   45:33It's just a matter of cost. So

   Barbara Wilhite

   45:35That's correct.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   45:37Would you have any objection if it just said by Dade City and or Pascoa County?

   Barbara Wilhite

   45:41It's fine.

   Charles GreyChair

   45:46Okay, for

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   45:46anything else. I just want to make sure we're not on well and septic basically. That's

   Barbara Wilhite

   45:50my

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   45:50only concern because I don't think staff would have approved this level of density on well inseptic.

   Barbara Wilhite

   45:55Understood.

   46:04Well what I'd like to do is if the gentleman will call us, we can discuss what's the buffer there. Instead of just doing it here. And then we can bring forth anything that's discussed in the MP um in the MPD before the board. I think that'd be just better neighbor to neighbor to have that conversation. If that's okay. Thank you.

   Charles GreyChair

   46:26Alright, any other questions?

   46:30Carry your motion.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   46:33Motion to approve. Is that with the change to the note to the sway plan to uh yes sir. For Pasco County

   Christopher Poole

   46:41Administrator's uh suggested note.

   Charles GreyChair

   46:45All right. Do we have a motion to approve with the modification of the wording?

   Chris Williams

   46:52I'll I'll make the second.

   Charles GreyChair

   46:54And we have a second. Any further discussion of the motion? If not, all in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like, sign. Okay.

   Liam Devine

   47:09Next.

2. 2Apr 4, 2023
   Board of County CommissionersP53Public hearingApproved

   Zoning Amendment (Consent) – … Infrastructure on Approximately 27.36 Acres. Acres

   Approved minutes

   Approved the Public Hearing Consent Agenda which included Agenda items P52 and P53.

   Open this item →No recording