PDD-23-7716

Every appearance1 of 1 are in a recording

TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 65% of 187 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.

1. 1Aug 22, 2023
   Board of County CommissionersP70Public hearingNo disposition in the minutes

   Open this item →▶ Play from 1:41:32
   ▶ 1:41:3225m

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:41:32That'll bring us to P seventy of the zoning amendment for columns of Bear Creek. Do we have proof?

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:41:38We do have approved Tampa Bay Times, June seventh, twenty twenty three.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:41:42Okay.

   1:41:54Oh seventy seventy, sorry.

   Jay Bartels

   1:41:57Gronk or seventy.

   Orlando Borraz

   1:42:07Good afternoon. This is Orlando Borraz. Um, with current planning. I'll be presenting P70, um, columns of very quick MPUD substantial modification.

   1:42:17So the proposal is going to implement um the current MPUD um to allow one hundred and sixty eight multifamily units and it's located right now um well it's located sorry south of South say road fifty two and it's of um Little Road. This is going to be the site location of this MPUD. It's going to be the location map. This is going to be the context map. The green zoning district surrounding the area. The official

   1:42:48line used run in the area. And this is going to be the LDC variation requested by the applicant. Currently the applicant is requesting to deviate from 901.6.D.11, strict design and dedication requirements. I'm going to show you real quick the master plan.

   1:43:08As you can see here

   1:43:14Excuse me, can you zoom in a little bit more the slide?

   Jay Bartels

   1:43:19Not.

   Orlando Borraz

   1:43:22So the applicant is requesting this deviation to not interconnect to the north side of the MPUD, um all the way to state road fifty two. Currently it's really um hard for the applicant right now to interconnect to the partial to the north. It's right now a self search unit, so there is some space constraint for the applicant to interconnect there. And um staff is I mean able to grant relief of these requests.

   1:43:51The recommendation of this um substantial modification comes with approval with conditions from PDD and Planning Commission.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:43:58All right, so if you would go back to the previous slide. Sure.

   1:44:03Do you have a map to where the l location of the apartments are going on the in the s new property and to where they are going, the with the town homes?

   Orlando Borraz

   1:44:10So the Hopefully you can see it here. Um it's going to be at the south side of the uh current MP, right over here.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:44:19And that's what the townhomes are gonna be. I mean we had a layout on the on the map in my in my office with these folks. Do we have that map? Sorry. We had a m um layout With the applicant. But I don't see it here.

   Orlando Borraz

   1:44:31Well, it's at that point it's going to be just conceptual, but they are going to be locating the one hundred and sixty eight um units right over here. Uh of course, as was mentioned before, um they are going to at least have the option for the townhomes.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:44:48Okay. We'll wait for the output.

   Seth Weightman

   1:44:50Yeah, so so uh Chairman Mariano. Is there a Google map you can pull up there? All the way up to State Route fifty two. I thought I saw something all the way up to the the circle K that's on the corner.

   1:45:07Able to do that.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:45:19When you've got a map in the agenda, should be able to pull that up.

   Seth Weightman

   1:45:28So my point my point to this is when you cross Moon Lake Road See what silk fence is? Right there on the south side.

   1:45:40It's a car wash. And then a little bit further west it's a storage facility. So we're gonna have this goes to a bigger point discussion on this thing.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:45:48Okay.

   Seth Weightman

   1:45:48Car wash, storage facility, and a little to the south more multifamily. You see the the the the the pattern there. Uh I guess I'm questioning the thoughtfulness of how we're designing and approving

   1:46:05With this with this This project And the same with any multifamily I've I'm a huge proponent of home ownership, so I want to understand this town home piece. versus rental. So far I'm we're getting mixed signal it's All rental. Or all fee simple town home product. That's a huge difference between rental and home ownership in my mind. So I'm hoping to get some clarity here on what what this is what this is gonna be. So You

   1:46:35know, it could be all rental car wash storage facility. I mean Exciting stuff. Yeah if we're not careful with what we're doing here.

   Orlando Borraz

   1:46:46So I was as it was mentioned before in condition um thirty two, um and I'm going to cite it for the record, multifamily residential units are to include apartments or platted townhomes. No other multifamily product types are to be permitted within this MPUD. So if the applicant decides to um to build the townhomes are going to be abiding by the new standards that has been um very well discussed um lately for townhomes.

   1:47:14New

   1:47:14wordsmith

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:47:15that well. So I think the I think what I'm to restate the concern. It didn't sound like you have a concern with the Plata Town Home. Your concern is with the multifamily apartment.

   Seth Weightman

   1:47:25Well there's they have a choice there. And if if if we're approving something and they're asking our opinion, I prefer to see home ownership. I prefer the C platted. individually owned, town owned product, the more rental.

   Orlando Borraz

   1:47:39In terms of the uh how this is going to be work, I will defer that question then to the applicant, they can speak more about um how this is going to be working in the future.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:47:49Okay. So from the applicant.

   Orlando Borraz

   1:47:53Thank you, Chairman Mariano.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:47:54Yes sir. Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:47:55Good afternoon again. Shall we fund to a Stantec Consulting Services? Um so if you wouldn't mind recap exactly your question so we can best address that for you.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:48:04The the askers to keep the same number of apartments and now you're asking for townhomes. And from what we're told by staff they wouldn't have the option to flip back to apartments on the townhome product and we're not comfortable with that. And that that goes completely against the conversation I think we had. Mm-hmm.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:48:19So part of that we were initially then the original conditions of approval then it had a maximum of 270 units, and the 222 have already been developed. Those remaining 48 units are currently as 48 single-family townhomes, or I believe they could also be single-family residents. So part of that conversation is where we introduced, well these can be town homes, and we're just looking for that flexibility there. If there's not the market at the time for townhomes, then

   1:48:49it would also be suitable for multifamily apartments. Yes, sir. Uh

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:48:55Commissioner Weightman.

   Seth Weightman

   1:48:56Thank you, Chairman Okay, coming back to me now seeing this map. So when we first when this was continued

   1:49:04We were all set for having about acre size residential units, right? Single family homes. And we compromised with somebody I'm going off memory here, so s somebody correct me if I'm wrong. We compromised of having With the project that's going in some multifamily and some and some town hall product and we went back Think went back to Commissioner Mariano, y'all talked with him. I'm going off memory Yeah. Uh And what you're coming back with is not a This

   1:49:34board seemingly made a concession by doing you know, changing from true single family home product to what you're seeing here. Uh Yeah. It's eroded away the value of your product with what I'm hearing today. with the project and its design so Um

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:49:52For clarification, when this item was heard before the board the first time, that was for the comprehensive plan amendment where we were just discussing the comprehensive plan amendment. Part of that conversation was we were going to circle back with Chairman Mariano to review what the site plan would look like and what those units, how we transition that into an actual plan. So at that moment we had no conception of whether those would be um townhomes or apartments for

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:50:18clarification. Let me let me help you clarify the meeting that I had with you guys. And it was very clear that I didn't want to see the extra apartments to the back part of the property. your own gentleman's scheduled where we could actually draw rent apartments to the front part and the back part was gonna be town homes. So that's completely different from what I expected to see.

   Seth Weightman

   1:50:40Oh Chair. May I

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:50:43Um the other the other ladies in the meeting she's coming forward, so she may say something different.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:50:52Sorry about that.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:50:54So to this rear, then this is currently this is what we had discussed initially was the location of townhomes. We have worked out with staff that those would be the same standards that have been adopt adopted for townhomes, the additional architectural standards and features that we have discussed. At the time then you were also asking to have them platted the something that we went back with our client and had additional conversation on and he had requested for that additional flexibility.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:51:25Okay, so we are clearly saying we don't want to give the flexibility.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:51:29And again, we have also discussed with our client today if if we absolutely need to, then we can just agree to just do this the townhomes as platted units, um and we'll be perfectly okay with that.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:51:42Yeah. Well declared there's already a condition requiring your townhomes to be platted.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:51:47Correct.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:51:47Are you saying you're giving up do you want to give up the apartment, the right to do a part

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:51:51of

   1:51:51the Mr.

   1:51:51Yes sir, so we would just be limiting that instead of having phase two B to have the flexibility between multifamily apartments and the platted townhomes, we would be agreeable to just limiting that to the platted townhomes.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:52:03But you still want apartments in two A?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:52:05Correct, yes. Those would still be the um the one hundred and twenty uh multifamily apartments.

   Seth Weightman

   1:52:18So two two B, so you're saying two B.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:52:21That's not on our map. Where's two B?

   Seth Weightman

   1:52:28And you and you're agreeing that you'll make those

   1:52:35Is that what you're committing to?

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:52:37Uh gentleman back's putting a thumbs up to that. So some we can't condition that they can

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:52:42somebody to come make a decision. You could condition that phase two B li be limited to plotted townhomes. I don't think the current conditions require that. Right now the current conditions only say if they build townhomes they have to be platted. It does not limit them to It doesn't locationally limit them. But you could impose a condition that phase two B. Only be part of town homes.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:53:08Kennedy beef. Condition to be fee simple Platotown homes.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:53:12If they're platted, they're effectively You're insured that they're gonna be a little bit more than a little bit. Home ownership, but you can't. You can't stop somebody from renting their home. I want to be clear. Okay. You can require them to be platted.

   Mike Carballa

   1:53:23Yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:53:24So they can be sold off as individual units. But you if somebody wants to rent their unit y they can't. So Yeah. Requirement it to require them to be plotted is what you can legally do, which is that there's already that condition in there.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:53:38Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:53:38What is not in there is any requirement that Two B phase two B only be town homes. It sounds like they're willing to agree to that.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:53:51Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:53:52That would allow two A to be either apartments or townhomes.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:53:55Okay, so to add that condition in, uh I'd like to hear from the applicant just to confirm that they're willing to do that.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:54:03If I could help here, Diane Chadwick was Stantec. Um I would point out uh in our meeting with the Chairman we did discuss moving the the multifamily buildings a little to the east to get them away from the large lots, which I think you can see that happened.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:54:18You did a great job there, thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:54:19I think as a point of clarification we're talking That we're asking for a hundred and twenty multifamily units. And forty eight town homes. The other alternative is just plain and simple 120 multifamily units. Not asking to convert. And I understand what David's saying that maybe it's not as clear in the conditions of approval that it should be, but we're not asking to convert. We're willing to agree to not convert the 48 townhomes to multifamily. Does

   1:54:50that help?

   1:54:55I thought he did.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:54:56Okay. Well I I guess the question is are you willing to agree that The plan at the but using the plan we're looking at, phase two B That that only be town homes.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:55:08We would

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:55:09agree to that, yes. Okay. Platted

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:55:10or over.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:55:10Platted townhomes. Well the townhomes have to be platted anyway. Okay. Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:55:14Platted downhomes, yes.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:55:16In two A you want To be either apartments or townhomes, is that accurate? No, just apartments.

   1:55:25Okay, so so two A would be apartments, two B would be plated townhomes. That's what you're offering. Yes. Okay. At least class A.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:55:34I I have a couple questions. Commissioner Starkey. Um do you have an amenity package here?

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:55:43There's an existing Apartment complex area of 222 units and that does have a recreation facility. Uh we haven't designed one in yet, but I would anticipate that there would be an additional recreational amenity on the southern side.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:55:57Does this not trigger more requirements for park space? Yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:56:03Yeah, they will have to comply with our neighborhood parks ordinance.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:56:06Okay, and um will the town homes be Following our new uh rules for the length of driveway and landscaping and all those things?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:56:14Yes, they've they've committed to all of the new rules as applicable to townhomes. Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:56:18That's that's in the conditions of approval.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:56:20Okay,

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:56:21all good.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:56:21And the fact that they would be pull out.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:56:23Yes.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:56:24Yeah.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:56:27Any any questions for the applicant? Okay. Nope, bad. Um Commissioner Starkey.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:56:33I'm trying to remember what your emergency access was or your secondary access was.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:56:41So in discretion with staff then I mean

   1:56:46So this is the only possible access for the property is through fifty two. Um so this does have a full loop that goes around and they did say that that would that would satisfy that need for uh dual access.

   1:57:01And the fire marshal has approved that as well.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:57:08There's no ability to connect to anything around you?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:57:12So above then it is Bayonet Point. It is we pretty much they're right up at their property lines. There's no opportunity to extend there. There are significant wetlands to the south and to the east. And same with the below adjacent to like the Res One, there are significant strength constraints with the wetland locations.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:57:34So rural back there.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:57:36Yeah, just surprising that many units and one in and

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:57:42And retail in the fronts now a storage area, which they tried to get and just didn't quite work out. Maybe it does change later.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:57:50Okay.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:57:52Very good. Okay. Thank you.

   1:57:57Anyone here for public comment?

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:58:00Is seventy. Uh

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:58:02on P seventy.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:58:04No, Miss Elmore was the only one signed up.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:58:07Okay, so

   1:58:20Take us back to the land use before?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:58:27You've not approved the future land use amendment yet.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:58:30That was P fifty eight, correct? Let

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:58:32me say that.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:58:35We deferred fifty nine, is that what you're asking?

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:58:38Okay, sorry.

   1:58:41All right, so let's go back to the land use amendment. Uh well no no public comment on P seventy. No one on WebEx? There is no one on the WebEx.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:58:53P fifty nine.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:58:56How's the land use? So we've heard the discussion, same amendment. Um now we've got the clarification as far as what's gonna go.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:59:04To be clear though, if you're gonna add an additional condition, it should be to the zoning, not the land use.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:59:08Right, so I just needed approval or a motion for P fifty nine.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:59:11Um I do not remember if we app did the advertisements, I'm just gonna state

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:59:15it for the record.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:59:16Tampa Bay Times, August thirteenth, twenty twenty-three.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:59:19Okay. I think we had because we had discussion on it. All right, so we approve for P fifty nine. Do we have a motion?

   1:59:32No motion.

   Seth Weightman

   1:59:40Do uh how would the motion need to be said?

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:59:42This is just the land use part. Oh. The r the l the zoning we can address the concerns about the planet.

   Seth Weightman

   1:59:49Second.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:59:50Okay. Okay, District One, Commissioner Oakley. Aye. District two, Commissioner Weightman. District three, Commissioner Starkey. A reluctant eye with only one entrance. District four, Commissioner Bradford.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:00:02I

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:00:02District Five Chairman Mariano.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:00:05Okay, now P seventy. Mr. County Attorney, you want to help with the motion maker?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:00:11Well I was gonna suggest that you approve it with the condition that phase two B be limited to platted town homes, but I'm not seeing I guess I need staff's help. I don't see phase two be geographically depicted on the MPD plan. I only see it depicted on the concept plan and So Can staff of the applicant help me out as to what Where to be is Is it on the M PUD plan? Or just on the concept plan.

   Henry

   2:00:42Mm-hmm.

   Orlando Borraz

   2:00:44Excuse me, Davy, can you repeat again your question?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:00:47So I think the board is inclined to add a condition that phase two B Be limited to plotted townhomes. But I'm not seeing where that is geographically Detected phase two B. On the I just see a phase two on the master plan. I don't see a phase two B. Unless I'm missing it.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:01:11That's what you know. Yes.

   Orlando Borraz

   2:01:19So

   Mike Carballa

   2:01:26Well it's in the round.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   2:01:29Okay, we don't bother by that. Yeah. D David, are you are you asking if the exhibit in the ordinance is illustrating par the two B partial?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:01:41Yeah. My my question is, because I'm saying this for the benefit of current planning, if we impose a condition saying that phase two B is limited to plotted townhomes. I'm not sure what anybody would look at to figure out where that is. Because I when I look at the M P plan it just has a phase

   2:02:00A phase two it just says phase two. Well it doesn't it doesn't say anything about a two B.

   2:02:08Okay.

   2:02:10So I you should you want us to refer to the concept the conceptual non binding yield plan? Because that it's the only thing I have. Yeah. So it's gonna make it a binding plan,

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   2:02:20basically. At that point, yes.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:02:23Okay. Okay.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   2:02:28What what what

   Seth Weightman

   2:02:34That's going to be the master fine otherwork. This whole thing's watched.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:02:41We've heard right now.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   2:02:45He he wants it wrapped up so he doesn't see. Oh,

   Orlando Borraz

   2:02:47the clicker is like,

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   2:02:48yeah. Yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:02:49Yeah.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   2:02:50That right there.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:02:52This this site plan is the master M P plan and it does show phase two A and two

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:02:58B. Okay. For some reason I don't see that in our Materials unless I'm missing it. I mean

   2:03:07It's this this is.

   2:03:11She's uh

   2:03:15I found it. Okay. All right. It is designated. Okay. So the condition of approval would be that MPUD phase two B Be limited to platter townhomes. And you're gonna have to go through and modify some of the corresponding text. To also make that clear the phase two B is limited to platted town homes. That would if that's your intent.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:03:39And I can say on behalf of the African Afric Africans, that's for a fund.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:03:44And your name for the record, please.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:03:46Diane Chadwick, Stantec.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:03:47Thank you.

   2:03:53Okay, do we have a motion? It's to the board.

   Seth Weightman

   2:03:59I beat it up enough uh so I'll make a I'll make a motion. I I'm just confused here with With our staff. I hear concerns from Commissioner Starkey, obvious concerns from Chairman Mariano. I picked them on some concerns. There's obviously some sort of level of

   2:04:19disconnect on this one somewhere? I mean this is the most discussion we've had on A project like this. So Uh what I don't know.

   2:04:31Do a little bit better job on it going forward on projects like this. But I'll make a motion to go Forward but not overly excited about it.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:04:39Also statement, but um So that's with the condition that P T B be limited to Plata Town.

   Seth Weightman

   2:04:44With the condition. Motion includes a condition of the county attorney's response.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   2:04:50And I'll second that with a statement of Other projects we've seen have been designated four townhomes and then residents from other places. Not necessarily Um Multifamily but residential relations, then they had townhomes along with the project. But they were described and and where they were going to be located and that type thing before. This one doesn't seem to have that.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:05:17And it didn't and I like I say when I had pulled it, and I appreciate the board letting me get a continue to this matter just to address it. Uh they did a great job sitting down, drawing the dark hands how it could work. so that the phase two B is the town's much less a problem for the people that live in the back there that didn't c weren't here to complain, but at least it I think it shows the r the right design. Yeah. So I agree. All right. Call the roll.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:05:42Okay, District One, Commissioner Oakley.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:05:44Aye.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:05:44District two, Commissioner Weightman. District three, Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District four, Commissioner Bradford.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:05:49Aye.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:05:50District 5 Chairman Mariano.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:05:51Aye. Okay. Thank you. Uh item P seventy three, do we have proof?

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:05:57Sorry, let me get to that page. Uh Tampa Bay Times, June twenty-fifth and July second, twenty twenty three.