PDD-24-0089

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1. 1Dec 5, 2023
   Board of County CommissionersP73Public hearingNo action

   Approved minutes

   No action was required as this was the first public hearing. The adoption hearing was set for the January 9, 2024 Board of County Commissioners meeting at 1:30 p.m. in Dade City.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 1:14:34
   ▶ 1:14:3448m

   Starkey

   1:14:34P Seventy three was advertised in the Tampa Bay Times November first, twenty twenty three. Good afternoon, Mr. Chair,

   Denise

   1:14:40Commissioner, Denise Hernandez, Planning and Development. On item P seventy three today we will be asking that you accept public comment. You don't have to take action on this matter today. It is set for adoption on 1-9 of 24 at 1.30 in Dade City. I will read the ordinance title and I will go through the sections that are being proposed for change. It is PDD 240089, an ordinance by the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners, amending the Pasco County Land Development Code, Chapter 100, General

   1:15:10Provisions, Section 108.12 Enforcement, Chapter 300, Procedures, Section 305, Neighborhood Meeting, Chapter 400, Permit Types and Application, Section 403.7, Mass Grading, Section 403.10 Landscape Plan, Section 407.2 Variances, Section 407.5, all Alternative Standards, Chapter 500 Zoning, Section 522, M PUD, Master Planning and Development District, Section Chapter 600, Overlay and Special Disc Districts, Section 604, Northeast Rural Protection Overlay District, Chapter 800, Natural and Cultural Resource Protection,

   1:15:40Section 805, Wetlands, Chapter 900, Development Standards, Section 901.2, Transportation Corridor Management, Section 901.6, Street Design and Dedication, Section 904, Fired protection, Section 907, on-site parking, loading, stacking, and lighting standards, Chapter 1000, Miscellaneous Structure Regulations, Section 1002, Wireless Communications Facilities, Section 1003, Gates, Fences, and Walls, Chapter 1300, Concurrency and Impact Fees, Section 1302.2, Mobility Fees, Section Section 1302.3, School Impact

   1:16:10Fees, Section 1302.4, Parks and Recreation Impact Fees, Section 1302.5, Library Impact Fees, Section 1302.6, Fire Combat and Rescue Service, Impact Fees, and other sections as necessary for internal consistency, providing for applicability, repealer, providing for severability, inclusion into land development code, and an effective date. So this is Land Development Code Amendment 67. That means that there have been 66 amendments to Land Development Code since it was restated in 2012. The proposed amendments were presented to the horizontal roundtable

   1:16:41and interested parties meeting on October 18, 2023. On November 16, 2023, the local planning agency found the items consistent with a comprehensive plan and recommended approval to the Board of County Commissioners. So we're gonna start section by section. So uh the first code section that's being modified is Chapter 100 General Provision, Section 108.12 enforcement. It adds subsection G, which is failing to comply with a recorded deed restriction that was utilized to secure county development approval or county mobility fee exemption waive,

   1:17:11waiver, or reduction. Sorry. So basically that um you've been approving many rezoning and a lot of them have de Restrictions, so it makes sense to add that as a enforcement section in the enforcement section. Next session is Chapter 300 Procedure, Section 305 Neighborhood Meeting. So basically, this just basically clarifies that when the when the neighborhood meeting should be conducted, and it's when the application is deemed complete for content, not actually after it's deemed it's accepted for review. We did have a

   1:17:41situation. Where someone held a neighborhood meeting after w it was accepted for review, their application was quite different because they hadn't met content. So um it's that's when it should be when they should hold their neighborhood meeting. Chapter 400 Permit types and applications. If you sign for

   MarianoChair

   1:17:56a minute. So here's a here's one thing with the neighborhood meeting that I think we should Discuss. Um They have meeting People can just be there from the applicant side. Listen, listen, listen. And they're met the requirement. I'm wondering if we shouldn't have a staff person there. to take notes or Allow someone from there. from the association that may be there or whatever it may be. to be able to put a report into what they found. Because I'm getting conflicting

   1:18:26things from what the applicant will tell us sometimes to what the people are saying. And just having a meeting? is not accomplished as as much as it could. If we really want to get feedback.

   OakleyVice Chair

   1:18:37Okay.

   1:18:41I've actually uh had some people told me they had a a m a meeting but then people didn't get noticed or They're too far away from the property so they didn't get noticed. And they think they should have gotten notice. I hear that. More than not. But um Yeah, the somehow we need to make sure these meetings are meaningful for the projects. Yeah.

   Starkey

   1:19:08Well those are two different things. I don't know how we have a staff person at every neighborhood meeting.

   Mike Carballa

   1:19:16Yeah, I'm I mean it would definitely represent a cost issue and then there's there's an availability depending on how how many these meetings go and and again their role there would be to take minutes or just observe that it would happen. I you know, I mean it's we wouldn't be managing the meeting per se.

   MarianoChair

   1:19:35Well and again I didn't say that. Sorry, Mr. Chairman Mariano. Sorry. Yeah. I I didn't say a staff person. I said maybe someone from an HOA or whatever group is there so they can get their notes to bring forward to say what was said, et cetera, so we get to hear it.

   1:19:54Well they had a meeting but they wouldn't listen to us. They said nothing's gonna change.

   1:19:59What's the citizens group? wants to bring a report back, we should allow it or even encourage it.

   1:20:06The notice as it goes out And when the meeting is held, that can be some type of verbiage in saying if somebody here from the public wants to take some notes, they can and submit them.

   Weightman

   1:20:18Chair. Yes. Maybe an idea, Commissioner Oriano, is if it's in, you know, if it impacts a neighboring C D or HOA, I mean they're they're a semi-formal, formal governing body. I it would behoove them to take a formal note and submit, whether it's a submit file to the clerk or or something. I don't know. There's merit to the point being made on on notice and comment.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:20:46Mr. Chairman Mariano.

   OakleyVice Chair

   1:20:48Yes sir.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:20:49I'm not sure that it's something that you need to spell out in the Land Development Code. In terms of in terms of if Direction to the administr if it's a staff person, direction to the administrator Okay. to have someone there um doesn't need to be in the ordinance. Um

   1:21:12And I don't know that by ordinance you should be requiring an association to

   1:21:21Yeah. Um I mean you We could make it clear in the in the ordinance that

   1:21:29If there is an association they should be invited to attend. uh you know something like that. But I don't yeah, I don't know that Because

   1:21:43And it's a mandatory requirement of the ordinance. The applicant has no control over that. Um I see where you're going. I j I just don't know that

   1:21:55That it's something that we should be mandating.

   OakleyVice Chair

   1:21:58Example would be like Saddlebrook at how many meetings went on there? In in multiple meetings.

   MarianoChair

   1:22:04And and frankly. We we d I mean that's that's uh that isn't a unique situation. Could happen again in a different phase. Like with the estates at the at the links, it's the same type of thing, they had separate meetings. Um

   1:22:17But I think that's a good thing. I think something to allow. For them. Encourage it, however you want to put the verbiage, not make it mandatory, but encourage it and welcome it that it it can be received. Brad has

   Mike Carballa

   1:22:29something that

   MarianoChair

   1:22:30I'm

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:22:31not looking for staff to go

   MarianoChair

   1:22:32be up. Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:22:33All right.

   OakleyVice Chair

   1:22:33Let's see here, Brad.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:22:34Definitely chairman. Brad Tippin Playing Development. I think I have an idea that that might work for this.

   1:22:43Um we can include a line in that notice encouraging any attendees to provide the county with any written feedback that they would like regarding the meeting. And we can include that.

   1:22:54All right, that's easy enough to do. We can do that on letter, it doesn't need to be part of the ordinance. CDDs and HOAs of the area already get notifications, so they can Just provided if they choose to.

   OakleyVice Chair

   1:23:03Okay. Right. That sounds good.

   Starkey

   1:23:06Qu question?

   OakleyVice Chair

   1:23:07Yes.

   Starkey

   1:23:07Um we already made a change about sign notification. Locations, right?

   1:23:17Uh they only put it on one road. This happened on Black Lake. It was out on fifty four and it could have been a little bit of a On Black Lake and So did we already make those changes?

   Denise

   1:23:28No, uh the code basically says it has to be um visible from a public roadway that abuts the project. So like to put it on a on off site that would be like an off site sign.

   Mike Carballa

   1:23:40I think in this particular case th this this road was kind of at an apex. You had Black Lake Road. So

   Denise

   1:23:45So and they would have to do two signs. Because if it it's at two roads, they would have to put a sign on each road. So that's already in our code? It is, yes, correct.

   Starkey

   1:23:53Okay. I thought we just had asked to make some changes to the sign locations.

   MarianoChair

   1:23:58Mr. Chairman Mariano and all that detail.

   Denise

   1:24:04It just says basically a twenty-four by thirty six and it could be purchased from the county.

   MarianoChair

   1:24:08Uh Terry Terry, we talked about that. Um What happened with that?

   1:24:15Yeah.

   OakleyVice Chair

   1:24:24Uh my understanding is that staff is working on that. Uh direction was provided to the staff to provide uh New sign sizes and new sign types. А восей то, ласт є. Uh on January first the law changed. Um where uh public notification uh requirements to the newspapers. Uh didn't have to be made. We could put them on our website. We've been working on that. Um In the meantime,

   1:24:54uh through the year we're pretty close um uh on that front. Uh however, it did raise the subject of how does this how does the county want to proceed with uh the actual signs. And how we want to uh Uh mandate them. So we were gonna look at we were were actually looking at the entirety of our public uh hearing advertisement. Um process and system at the moment. So as soon as we get the uh the uh the uh public

   1:25:25notifications situated. If we want to put these on our website versus in newspapers, then we're going to also address what kind of signs that we want to have and how to Uh let the applicants uh participate in that process.

   MarianoChair

   1:25:39Uh when we talked, you told me that you really like the Hills Row County signs, I believe. They were larger. They both had some good examples. Uh I don't know why that we just didn't incorporate that. There were l larger signs, very visible signs, and We we shouldn't allow cross outs and right-overs. Sometimes you'll see some cross down kind of like written in beside it. Um And I I think it should be a little bit more than a little bit. Somehow some type of verbiage as far as location goes.

   OakleyVice Chair

   1:26:07Yes. Like

   MarianoChair

   1:26:08you know in the Saddlebrook when they first first put the signs out they were like in the driveway coming in. Nobody can stop. You'd have to stop, walk two hundred yards, three hundred yards to go read what that sign set. They changed it later, but We gotta make sure that they're in in a in a good location.

   1:26:24So okay. What would it take for you to get the Hills Row signs back?

   OakleyVice Chair

   1:26:27The new signs that we would work on that we've been uh working on would not include handwriting, handwritten signs on. They would actually be printed signs. That's the idea. And so they would be printed signs large enough to actually see from the roadway when you're traveling at least thirty-five miles per hour. Yeah.

   OakleyVice Chair

   1:26:45You gotta be big size.

   OakleyVice Chair

   1:26:46Must be

   OakleyVice Chair

   1:26:47big. Yeah. They were looking at my eyes, I got a problem.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:26:54Okay.

   Denise

   1:26:54Shall I continue?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:26:55Billboard ordinance may have problems.

   Denise

   1:26:58I have I have a question on the landscape section. Um haven't gotten there yet. Do you mind if I just um read just a scribner's error? Yep. And then I'll talk we'll talk about the landscape. So Chapter 400 permit types and applications 403.7 B4 D mass grading. So there is an a scrivener's error there, should be 200 feet, not 20 feet, and that's basically just showing the abutting developments. 20 feet, that doesn't make any sense. It should have been 200 feet. Many of the other requirements are 200 feet as well.

   Starkey

   1:27:24Okay. Question on this one. Sure. Um a number of places in the county. One I comes to my mind on Trouble Creek where we had someone who came into property without a per without a permit and cleared A beautiful, beautiful forested property. With the intent to put something on there that I think we would never ever allow. Um but the penalty What's the penalty for clearing without a

   1:27:54permit?

   Denise

   1:27:56It's not enough. So I believe on that one and I don't think they're here to answer that question, the county attorney's office did agree on a payment on that and I don't remember what the answer to that is. But I hear it all the time. It's it's you know just it's better just to go ahead

   Starkey

   1:28:11and

   Denise

   1:28:12do it and pay the fee, the penalty fee. That project is stalled um because the I guess they're supposed to be getting some permitting through the Southwest Florida Water Management District and they haven't done it.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:28:23But your signs are capped by state statute.

   Starkey

   1:28:26What else can we put

   1:28:29Don't call it a fine, call it something else. Let's get creative.

   1:28:34Well no, we need a deterrent. There there people are coming and clearing land without permits all the time. And and then we have to figure out how do we count the trees that they cut down. Um And it's just not I just think we need to

   1:28:52It needs to be more punitive in my opinion. And Is there anything else, Jeff?

   Mike Carballa

   1:28:59I thought you were limited.

   Starkey

   1:29:01Huh?

   Mike Carballa

   1:29:01Thought we were limited in what we could five hundred dollars. Well that's what I just said to the commissioner and she told me to get creative.

   Starkey

   1:29:09Okay. It's cheaper to pay the fine.

   Mike Carballa

   1:29:12I mean we've done

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:29:12things like stack the charges, if you will. Well that's and yeah. And so Technically it's the violation uh depending on how the code officer writes it, that the violations could be each and every tree that is taken down and that gets the number up. Um I'm not sure whether or not we can

   1:29:37Um

   1:29:40Create basically a time out for someone who violates the code. I'm but that's something we could look into.

   Starkey

   1:29:49Maybe there can be no development for X amount of years. That would be

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:29:54timeout.

   Starkey

   1:29:54That's what? That's what I meant. Okay. Well, sometimes you have to explain it to me differently.

   Denise

   1:30:16Okay. Can we get some creative ideas? Ideas?

   OakleyVice Chair

   1:30:19They'll bring it back. Okay, there's no action on this item?

   Denise

   1:30:24Oh no, I'm not done. Uh moving on to landscape. Okay, so the landscape four hundred four oh three point ten, all that we're doing here is this is a From when we created the landscape plan section, this is really just for landscape plans. So we put a m a portion of 905.2 into this section. We're taking it out of the landscape section, moving it back to 905.2, which is where it should be. This is just the applicability section for this section is changing where that it's only applicable to projects

   1:30:54where landscape improvements are required. So there's not really any changes to the section. But that's a problem. Speaking out moving it into the other section.

   Starkey

   1:31:02Can I can I speak on this one? And I've had multiple meetings with staff on the on some issues with the landscape ordinance and and going back and asking Businesses who have let all their landscaping die or like some businesses after you get the C O they take their trees out and put Um And uh and Brad, you've been in on these meetings, so I don't know if we want to step up here on this one. The thought that we had in in our group meetings with code and Denise and

   1:31:32Brad is w instead of putting the onus on a land on a business to try and find their original site plan. uh or staff to go back and look for the original site pan because apparently code can't cite anybody unless they have What they know exactly what's missing. Why not say you know, it's clear that your landscaping is not how it was and we can tell through photos. Um we we have modified the landscaping

   1:32:03ordinance and improved it since a lot of these businesses went went in. For example, we don't require those berms anymore, which are very hard to maintain. Um so why not just let them Uh, redo their landscaping to the current rules, which are better anyway. And we would need to tweak this to allow that, correct?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:32:27Yeah, this this would require some some additional tweaks to get there, but that is again one of the options. We looked at a interim option which is to improve their landscaping, but not necessarily all the way to code. uh if they're doing it voluntarily um and then if they're not doing it and they don't follow through we could come back and and require something a little more. There's a whole bunch of different things we've looked at and talked about with a bunch of different people, but we would need to tweak the code a little bit more to to make sure we get that to happen.

   Starkey

   1:32:52So it seems very reasonable and easier on everybody Um to say You you have your option? You know uh You can put it back how it was permitted or you can just come up to the new code. And I think everyone would choose to just come up to the new code, which is better.

   1:33:16Anyone? Right? It makes it so much easier on our staff and our code enforcement. It really does. And the reviewers.

   Weightman

   1:33:26I agree.

   MarianoChair

   1:33:28Mr. Chairman Mariano I mean I I agree But just the the one curve I have trouble with is US nineteen. And again I think We should look at that cord or maybe do a separate workshop on it to go find out what's the best way to set it because a lot of those people have let this stuff go. because before that you couldn't see their signs, you couldn't get any any visibility. Uh it's kept a lot of pole signs in place. because of the height and whatever. So I I think maybe it is time to do it just do a study. I'm okay with the changes you're talking about right here, but I think We need to do an

   1:33:58overlay district.

   Starkey

   1:33:59I for most of the businesses on nineteen came in when we had no landscape requirements. Um Some of the automobile um businesses are there. They've let it die or have taken it out. Um I would I would I will send you pictures of what's required in other counties. With the automobile dealers and and what we have and I will tell you ours is less. So um But other than that, mo most of the businesses

   1:34:32Since we're not going to be able to do Most of the problem children.

   MarianoChair

   1:34:36Mm-hmm.

   Starkey

   1:34:37But anyway I'm I'm glad that you're in agreement with this and

   Denise

   1:34:41Okay. So would it give so would it be to give the person the option to either um Uh comply with their approved landscape plan. Original one? Correct. The original approved landscape plan or bring it up to the current court. Yeah, which they have to

   Starkey

   1:34:56provide, not the county.

   Denise

   1:34:57No, I I understand. Yeah,

   Starkey

   1:34:58to save you guys from going to that warehouse and digging through all the boxes. Right. Okay.

   Denise

   1:35:06All right, moving on to the next uh item, Chapter 400, 407.2e variances, and then this is the same also in 407.5 alternative standards. So basically, this acts adds a change in the effect of final determination. If the Planning Commission denies a variance or an alternative standard, the Planning Commission shall not consider any further application over the same variance or the same alternative standard on the same property for a period of 12 or March. Months or for any other kind of variance or any other kind of alternative standard for a period of six or more month more months

   1:35:36from the date of denial. That's very similar to the way we do special exceptions. This happened this year, as you may probably recall, that the Planning Commission denied a variance for a setback. on a parcel and literally the gentleman applied for the same exact variance a month later and denied it again. And then if then that came to the board and the board you know, reversed the decision on appeal. Uh but they that person should have just appealed or waited or whatever the case may be. So because the specifics

   1:36:06on the situation did not change. Um The next section is Chapter 500 Zoning Section 522.5A, EC MPUD, purpose and intent. This is just a Scribner's error. It says that there is an emergency communications division flu classification. There's no such thing. It should be EC Employment Center Future Land Use Classification. For the next item, you're gonna probably you're gonna see this quite a lot throughout changes to the name of Pasco County Fire Rescue. So in this next section, 522.9E3F2AV

   1:36:38C C M P U D Paving, Grading, and Drainage, we're just changing the name of Pasco County Fire Rescue Division to Pasco County Fire Rescue Department because it's not a division, it's a department. Next section is 500 street design and dedication. It replaces fire marshal with county fire marshal. So the county attorney's office is making some changes to the Pasco County Code of Ordinances and they've asked me that we really need to be consistent throughout. So you're gonna see this quite a bit. Same thing in 522.9 on site parking. Next section is

   1:37:08600 overland special districts. It changes the fire department access road to all fire department access roads. Next section is Chapter 800, Natural and Cultural Resource Protection, Section 805.4A, impacts to wetland mitigation, and 805.6 restrictions on post-development wetlands and upland buffer. So basically this just changes so that and this is consistent with Complan Policy 1.3.13 for developments not required to plat the post-development category one wetlands and upland

   1:37:39buffers within the non-residential parcel shall be conveyed by the applicant as a conservation easement. And this codifies current practice, and you've probably actually seen quite a few alternative standards because the code doesn't currently say that. Yeah. Next section is Chapter 900, Development Standards, 901.2E. It revises the number. This is a Scribner's error. It's an unintended consequence of Amendment 45 when removed the dedication waiver allowances. Again, next section is 901.6

   1:38:10D2 street design under development standards. It replaces fire marshal with county fire marshal. Next section is 900 development standards. It replaces County Fire Marshal with County Fire Marshal and adds the word County to Fire Rescue Department. So Pasco County Fire Rescue Department. Um next section is 905.2. You heard about the move from 403.10 landscape plan into 905.2. No changes, just taking it out of 403.10 bringing it into 905.2.

   1:38:41Next section is Chapter 900 Development Standards, 907.1 D6 on-site parking, loading, stacking, another one where we replace fire marshal with county fire marshal. Next section is Chapter 100 Miscellaneous Structure Regulations Wireless Communications Facilities. It's another thing again that your um that the time the time starts ticking from the when the application is deemed complete for review.

   Starkey

   1:39:04What what are we what's on our screen here?

   Denise

   1:39:07I'm so sorry. I foul fast forwarded too much. Okay.

   MarianoChair

   1:39:11Good role.

   Denise

   1:39:14Okay, so here we go. So basically it changes the time the application is received to when the application is deemed complete for review as to when the the clock starts ticking. Um and then we um modified it. There's a scrivener scrivener's error due to some changes that we made in chap um through Chapter 27, Pasco County Code of Ordinances. Next section is 1,000 miscellaneous structure regulations, 1003.3, gates, fences, and walls. It clarifies that the four-foot maximum fence height in front yard applies to corner lots and double frontage lots.

   Starkey

   1:39:43But they don't have to get a permit. So how

   Denise

   1:39:44they

   Starkey

   1:39:45don't have to get a permit. How do they know anything about that?

   Denise

   1:39:47I think that is well, I think we need to do a better job at putting things on our website and showing all those things that we did. And um would love to talk to the team who's working on the website, because I think we're getting a our website is changing to incorporate that in there.

   1:40:06Next section is 1300 concurrency mobility and impact fee. Section 1302.2. It just adds full time as a qualifier. That's for small businesses. The following section, and you're gonna see this uh quite a bit throughout, Chapter 1300 Concurrency, Mobility, and Impact Fees. It adds non-edibility, eligibility for affordable housing rate if the project has invoked the land use zoning preemption or property tax exemption, the Live Local Act. It adds moderate income affordable housing rate, which is equivalent to

   1:40:36the transit oriented design rate, and adds non-eligibility for affordable housing rate if the project has invoked the land use zoning preemption or property tax exemption in the Live Local Act.

   1:40:48And um and it also adds the non-eligibility for TOD, TND, and Mudram developments that have invoked the land use zoning preemption or property tax exemption in the Live Local Act.

   1:41:00Next section is 1300, uh 1302.3 C5 school impact fee imposition. Um I'm going to tell you that it is the same exact thing with uh parks and rec and library impact fees. And fire combat and rescue fees. All these sections were adding or partial exemptions, adds affordable housing exemption. No fees are due if the unit is affordable to a f family with a median income that does not exceed the 80% of the median income for the Tampa-St. Petersburg Clear Water

   1:41:30Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area. It adds non-eligibility for the affordable housing rate if the project has involved involved. invoke the land use zoning preemption or property tax exemption in the Live Local Act. It adds moderate income affordable housing, partial exemption. which is a partial exemption if the unit is affordable to a family with a median income between eighty and one twenty percent of AMI. And it adds non-eligibility for the affordable housing rate if the project has invoked the land use zoning preemption in the Live Local Act. It

   1:42:01also removes alternative form of payment. Again, we're asking today that you accept public comment. There's no action required by the Board of County Commissioners. This is set for adoption on January 9th, 2024. Uh comes to you with a recommendation of F found a finding of consistency from the local planning agency and um here for any additional questions that you may have.

   OakleyVice Chair

   1:42:27Yes, ma'am.

   Starkey

   1:42:28So under Commissioner Oakley, I was gonna bring up the loom and the MPUD uh that we talked about, which is at the preserve. Um Is this the right is this an okay time to bring it up? Can that be added in here or do I have Um I am I let

   Denise

   1:42:47me see I'm I think I'm making changes to the MPUD section. Yeah, that's okay. But then that would definitely Why don't why don't you talk about it? 'Cause I'm not sure that that's so

   Starkey

   1:42:56um we sent some pictures and this one's gonna be out of order. If you could put up there the photograph uh the preserve Um whoever we sent the photos to. Um that is gonna be a um a s like a It it's probably an aerial. I don't know, Katie may be able to come out here and Go over what I sent you. So commissioners, I didn't know this happened and I probably wouldn't have been okay with it, but it was a decision that was made by staff,

   1:43:26not by us. Um and if you remember the Loom is the land use equival equivalency matrix and and There's great reasons to keep it in most circumstances, but in a circumstance like this, I I would not have been okay with this. So Denise, can you say what happened in September?

   Denise

   1:43:45Um I don't know the exact numbers because there I wasn't ready to discuss this right now. Uh but basically what it is is that this particular project um invoked the land use equivalency matrix in order to To use, I think what they were exchanging is 30,000 square feet of commercial for. 400 and something multifamily apartments.

   Starkey

   1:44:08So we lost commercial at Suncoast and 54 for more apartments. And I would not have been okay with that. Um there's a lot of a there's a there's a lot of multifamily in this development already. And um I just d didn't want to lose commercial. Uh or office. It could have been office. How do we lose that? Well it's it's not

   Denise

   1:44:35something that comes to us.

   1:44:39Right, that that is something that's within the MPUD that the applicant that and it there could be an administrative approval of the land use equivalency matrix. So as long as the equivalencies are shown in the table as to commercial is the equ the equ there's an equivalent Mm multifamily, these are the number of trips and they there's an equivalency that's used. An exchange. I think I have somebody here behind me.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:45:02It's not apples to Apple. Rad tip and planning development again. Yes, we can actually footnote those Loom tables with some restrictions on what they can and cannot trade off when we bring those to the board for approval as part of the MPUD process. Most of them are in the MPUDs now, some of them historically have been in DRIs. But uh or comp plans, I'm sorry. Uh but uh when we do it with the MPUDs, we can bring them forward, we can we can add or modify those as the board sees fit in particular situations. Um uh

   1:45:32situations with mudderum and and other things are a little bit complicated because there are certain density levels that are required to be there, so they need to sometimes up. Up certain densities in certain areas to create that core density that's necessary. So sometimes that commercial does get exchanged there. Uh but there's minimum amounts of commercial and and uh office that are also required to be retained as part of that equation. So

   Starkey

   1:45:55and and they did we did require retain some commercial and office, which I'm quite a bit. Yeah, so that's that's good. It's just it was you know, I just remember when we did the seven the seven.

   1:46:06Um they took multifamily that was back inside the community and brought it out front. That was a little different. That's my rec um which I would rather have that apartment complex out front than buried in a community like Seven Oaks that just had that one road going through. Um So it but I don't think I d I feel like this circumstance was a little different than that one. So I just Thought maybe we should talk about it.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:46:36We can it it's difficult with the loom because looms are are are kind of meant to be a little bit uh specific to each situation, uh whatever each individual project is trying to achieve. Uh so to make a a more global thing as an ordinance edit might be difficult. Uh whereas the each individual MPD, like I said, there's footnotes on those looms. So you can say we don't want you to convert any of this for that. You know, you can convert industrial for office. or something, but no residential, you can make those types of restrictions on the actual MPs themselves as they come through.

   1:47:07Mr. White.

   Weightman

   1:47:10When you say who We Who can make those footnotes? Because

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:47:15You can.

   Weightman

   1:47:16We can uh you can

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:47:17well we we generally would make that as part of the review process uh when we know it's uh gonna be an issue. Uh it goes to the county attorney's office. David's very good also about making sure that we don't swap certain things for other things that the board's not looking for. Um and then that does come through Planning Commission, they can make that request and then it comes to you as well and you can make that request.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:47:36Once once you adopt the MPUD. they can't make any changes to those techniques.

   Weightman

   1:47:42So sentiment from this board theoretically could be if we agree with this today, let's Let's not be horse trading. office and commercial space. for more multifamily rental product. uh in developments. I I think that's a

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:47:57and as a general rule we can we can certainly keep that as we're processing. Let us know. Maybe Yeah.

   1:48:08Uh you know, it's very difficult again to make a very general ordinance in that regard, but you will have a shot at every MPUD where you can make sure that that's there, much like we've been doing with deed restrictions with the Live Local. You know, you can't do that.

   OakleyVice Chair

   1:48:19So an MP MPUD like this, Brad, wouldn't necessarily tell us they were doing that or wanting to do that before we voted for the It would be in the

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:48:28conditions of approval. Okay. You would just have to pick up on the fact that the look that the chart allowed allowed them to swap all these things. And we

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:48:39can make a point of putting in our agenda memo that there is a loom to kind of call that to everyone's attention so that you can look at that and see if there's trade-offs and what they are. Uh but once again once it's voted by you guys we can't change that. Okay. And

   Starkey

   1:48:52and I'm not talking about swap moving residential stuff around. I'm talking about losing commercial in office.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:48:58Correct. Yeah. Yeah. This is not a loom wo is not designed to be used to move things around on the site. It's to take entitlement it changing entitlement values. So i that's that's the total function it In the in the old days, these were done to avoid substantial deviations for DRIs. That's kind of where they came from. But they've continued even

   1:49:29after DRIs. So it basically based on the IT manual for the most part. It says this generates X number of trips.

   1:49:41And this generates X number of trips. And so no harm, no foul, you can trade that. Well, that may not be what the board wants. is to change that commercial into single family. or multifamily.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:49:57one consequence of a change, one impact of a change, which is the trip generation. It may not look at the employment generation and the other things like that. So that's where those footnotes we can reduce and restrict or mandate. We can also mandate a certain amount remain.

   Starkey

   1:50:10Yeah, because I would love to have had another touch point there.

   OakleyVice Chair

   1:50:15Mm-hmm. However.

   MarianoChair

   1:50:17Mr. Chairman

   OakleyVice Chair

   1:50:17Mariano.

   MarianoChair

   1:50:19Denise, do you remember I thought we voted on this thing because this was very high residential Not as high. Initially and then we switched it And you said you could do it, but we made a choice to let this happen, didn't we?

   Denise

   1:50:31In this location here specifically, it actually it's in the in the land use equivalency matrix. That you can move commercial to multifamily apartments. You can't move commercial to like I think site built residential but to multifamily you could.

   Starkey

   1:50:47And it's a big one. It's like four hundred and something.

   MarianoChair

   1:50:49I know and I I think it it's D. R. Wooden that's above, isn't it?

   Starkey

   1:50:53Yeah.

   MarianoChair

   1:50:53Okay. So I I think when this came before us, we They came to us saying

   1:51:00I I recall hearing about it and I think it was something like we need this residential density to make this whole deal work. So we sacrificed that to get this this is how I recall it. I

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:51:10don't know. Yeah, there was uh uh if you recall there's a uh DC uh port project that's in that area there uh and to be able to kind of shift some of that land around and do some of those things uh to maintain the actual mudderum requirements that they were searching for with their neighborhood cores and things, they had to actually do a little bit of switching and swapping. Again, a lot. was retained as well. So I you know it was in the loom. It was kind of designed to function like that to try and try and be able to balance that because when you're doing these zonings they're very early on, the

   1:51:40market's changing as you go. Um so you want to try to be able to address that. Obviously we don't want to lose the the employment generating uses. So we we can certainly restrict those looms to

   MarianoChair

   1:51:50no and I'm I'm all for if you can make the switch from the Residential to the commercial, let that happen all the way through. The other one there should be a little bit more grid to it.

   OakleyVice Chair

   1:52:00What do we need to do to make this An item we got the money. We can hear about it. So

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:52:07Yeah, it it'll come through with all the MPUDs. What we will do is we'll make sure that it's clearly noted in the agenda memos that we that we bring to you that there is a loom. So that you can look at it and you can see if those footnotes are okay. The footnotes are where we're going to restrict those those transactions.

   Starkey

   1:52:21Can you can you put up the this is a really bad picture. Do you mind going to just Google Earth? So because you can't tell what's going on in that picture. I'm sorry I didn't see that. So I have to tell

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:52:32the board there is no r legal requirement for you to have a loom at all. So I mean that's something that the development community may not be particularly happy with that suggestion, but You can approve a project. And if they want to change the entitlements, then they'd have to come back to you. The loom is a is designed to give administrative flexibility for their for their project.

   Starkey

   1:53:02I just think if we're not giving up commercial and office I'm I'm okay with it. I mean Yeah. For now. I mean that's that's the big thing.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:53:10And we'll take that direction as we're working on the the MPDs moving forward and make sure again we'll bring it to your attention if there's one there so you can double check and kind of see what that is.

   Starkey

   1:53:17Well this this map still isn't up to date for some reason.

   1:53:23Okay.

   1:53:26But it's the it's the land um Over here on um well you see where touch point is? It's the land on the main road to the right s and south of it that is

   1:53:41That's the land that was left for commercial and office. Mm-hmm. And there's still some left. Um But I think half of that's now gonna be apartments.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:53:51Mm. Yeah.

   Starkey

   1:53:53But that was one of our major employment corners.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:53:55Right.

   Starkey

   1:54:00Okay.

   1:54:03So Mr. Chairman

   Denise

   1:54:06Mariano.

   Weightman

   1:54:07Chair. I have a I have a point to add to this. I was going back and forth with Mr. Carbala on when to bring this up. He said bring this up now. So we did early on we did another Mass vote on L D C when my first started and Commissioner Bradford was here. Yeah. Uh we first joined, but going through and then and coming off the heels of the homestead exemption for for seniors We voted Uh land development code. To

   1:54:38not allow folks and staff correct me if I'm wrong here, but not allow folks to live in their R V while they're building their home. on an acre or whatever they have. And for affordability, I think we need to amend that rule to allow folks if they live on an acre of land or more zone agriculture that they could live in their RV, because they're gonna have one anyway, be parked under a cover, instead of them having to go pay rent somewhere two, three thousand dollars a month. They're

   1:55:08living in probably a pretty nice R V. They're building their home. But the caveat of this would be they have an active building Permit. Right. So they're actively building their home and they're t instead of spending their money on rental elsewhere They are expeditiously reinvesting it into their property to hurry up and get their CO and then their property is on the tax roll. So when we talk about affordability of building and living in Pasco, I think this is one way that we can help Homeowners uh do that and they can stay on their property that they own and they use

   1:55:38and as long as they have an active building permit that folks can do that. And also goes to Commissioner Starkey's point when she brought up I think accessory dwellings a meeting or two ago Yeah. They could build their garage first as long as they're an active building permit that they can stay on their site whatever the parameters are we agree on. They're on their site, building their home. And they're not having to go rent rent somewhere so

   Denise

   1:56:02that's actually already allowed.

   1:56:07Yeah.

   OakleyVice Chair

   1:56:10people used to come there and start building their home, living in a R V Or trailer. And then when they got through building their home, they didn't move the trailer, they just kept it. You had two families on that same property. And that's why this rule was made. So that would not happen. So if you can come up with some idea of how to guard against that, then I would be for that. But You gotta guard against the fact that they continue and then move another family on that same lot.

   Denise

   1:56:40Yeah, so so the one up the first the second one I suppose which was uh building we have we have folks here who build a detached garage with residential on top until such time as that then they actually build their home. And uh and basically that that's been allowed, so as long as they pay their mobility fees, impact fees, and everything else. And then when they build their home, they have to make that into some other type of you know, use that's not residential, and then they add the house, and then they pay the difference

   1:57:10in the mobility fees based on the square footage of the structure because now you have a larger structure. First, you fell in during one tier now you fall into a different tier. tier. So that's that's always been allowed.

   Weightman

   1:57:25So someone can put in septic well, for example, Co Hollow or wherever they have an acre, acre or two, zoned AR. They can go and stay in their camper while they're building their house.

   Denise

   1:57:36No, no. I'm talking about the detached garage question. So there you can start building a garage that has residential space and pay the mobility fees, the impact fee, all that stuff. Well

   OakleyVice Chair

   1:57:49that's

   Denise

   1:57:50and then later on build the house and then that residential space has got to go away because you're at Quail Hollow, for example, it's one dwelling unit per acre. So if you only have an acre, you can only w do one dwelling unit. I know that there's gonna be a conversation about accessory dwellings, but I I don't know that that's something that Um I I think there was a former staff member that was working with maybe somebody can provide

   Weightman

   1:58:13RVs.

   Denise

   1:58:14RVs are that's not a you cannot al you cannot reside in an RV while a house is being built.

   Weightman

   1:58:20That's not allowed. I disagree with that. Okay. I disagree with that. If somebody's building a house, they have an active building permit and they have a brand new RV and they can tie into their septic and well, they're living they're not paying rent somewhere, they're taking that two to three thousand. And it's encouraging them And qu feel free to jump in here, Carbal, whenever you can.

   1:58:48It's their property, they're using it. If if we set parameters Uh It's a little bit more work on code, I guess, but we set parameters where the following, say the R V is not any older than ten years, whatever it whatever it is. Folks are on their property, they're working, they have an active building permit. Hernando has this ordinance for example. Hernando County allows this. To me it encourages home ownership. It allows people to keep more money in their pocket and not waste their money on rent. Uh that's just my opinion. Uh I think we should allow

   1:59:18that to happen. And uh I think it would encourage homeownership if you're buying an acre of land in Pasco these days. You're making a significant investment.

   Denise

   1:59:27So it sounds like um devil's advocate. Should this be something that would be like in agricultural districts like AR, one acre lots, not like in the middle of a subdivision or whatever where there's a HA that would never allow that.

   Starkey

   1:59:41I've lived in a lot of countries. And I've seen how different How homeowners have gotten very creative and avoiding paying certain taxes. For example, on some of the islands. It you don't you don't get taxed until your house is done. And so you can look and see they all have rod all these wrought iron poles sticking up for the second floor that they haven't built yet. So technically their house isn't done, so they get taxed very differently. Um so w You

   2:00:11know, technically someone could be building a house and never get their CO because they or or they could really draw draw it out. So I would want to put some guardrails on something like that. I think it's interesting. But I think it needs some guardrails on it. So I think that has to be workshopped among staff and I don't think that's something we can do. Mr. Chairman M this

   OakleyVice Chair

   2:00:29yes, sir.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:00:30This that can't be added to this package anyway. So you'd you'd have to you'd have to Yeah to bring something else up.

   Mike Carballa

   2:00:37But I think that's something we can take up as as action for force.

   Starkey

   2:00:41Oh go ahead, Mr.

   Roy Major

   2:00:43The key to address that is an active building permit, because

   Starkey

   2:00:46the

   Roy Major

   2:00:46the permit expires a after six months.

   2:00:51They would well if you get inspections, you inspections uh within that six month period.

   2:00:59Mm-hmm.

   Starkey

   2:01:00Before your time, we had a building official here who had an open permit for ten years.

   2:01:08having to pay property taxes on that.

   Denise

   2:01:14Yeah, I guess.

   Roy Major

   2:01:15I I I think an active building permit is a key is a

   Denise

   2:01:17key item there. Yeah, I I I certainly think we need to talk about this more. Ms.

   MarianoChair

   2:01:22Bayonet Point County Administrator, so maybe you can send the copy to us. Uh that might be the easiest way to do it. But anything we can encourage someone building an acre on an acre lot, that's a good thing.

   Mike Carballa

   2:01:32Yeah. Okay. We'll take that under action.

   OakleyVice Chair

   2:01:36All right.

   2:01:39So what do we have left here? We got public comment. Public comment? We're not voting on this, are we?

   Denise

   2:01:45We're not just take public comment. Yes.

   OakleyVice Chair

   2:01:47It's still public hearing and and we're going is anyone signed up? There

   Denise

   2:01:51is no one signed

   Starkey

   2:01:51up.

   OakleyVice Chair

   2:01:52One signed up?

   Starkey

   2:01:53No one signed up.

   OakleyVice Chair

   2:01:54Oh no one signed up. Okay. Is anyone in the audience wish to speak to this item? See a no one? Okay. We'll close this item and Move to public hearing. So when is the n you've already

   Denise

   2:02:09ninth twenty-four at one thirty in Dade City

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:02:13What now? The the next public hearing for this item will be January ninth ninth, twenty twenty four, at one thirty or as soon thereafter as you get to it. And date, city. And date city. Okay. All right.

   OakleyVice Chair

   2:02:29Move to uh P seventy-four. And would you um go over the Information for everyone.