PDD-24-2104

Published agenda

2 appearances between Jan 18, 2024 and Feb 8, 2024.

OutcomeApproved by the Planning Commission on Feb 8, 2024

Approved the item per Staff’s recommendation.

Official title

Variance Request (Consent) – Dawn Shurley – Increase in the Maximum Fence Height Along the East Front Property Line Facing Rock Royal Drive from 4 Feet to 6 Feet in an R-4 High Density Residential District – Southwest Pasco County – On the Southwest Corner of the Intersection of Strauber Memorial Highway and Rock Royal Drive – Containing Approximately 0.12 Acre

On a calendar

Jan 18, 2024 → Feb 8, 2024 · click a mark to jump to that appearance

Every appearance1 of 2 are in a recording

Each appearance carries the official title above. Where the county’s wording changed, the change is marked: added and ~~removed~~. Steps with no marks were worded identically.

TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 78% of 175 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong. 1 of the 2 appearances are not in any recording, so what was said at those is not here.

1Jan 18, 2024
Planning CommissionPC7Consent agendaNo disposition in the minutes
Variance Request ~~(Consent)~~ (Continuance) – Dawn Shurley – … Maximum Fence Height Along ~~the East~~ a Secondary Front ~~Property Line Facing Rock Royal Drive~~ from 4 Feet to … Containing Approximately 0.12 Acre
Open this item →No recording
2Feb 8, 2024
Planning CommissionPC10Consent agendaApproved
Approved minutes
Approved the item per Staff’s recommendation.
Open this item →
26m
Charles GreyChair
Good afternoon, Mr. Divine. How are you?
Liam Devine
Good. Planning and development. Um this is PC ten.
P D twenty four-twenty one zero four in the name of Don Shirley. It's a variance request for an increase in the maximum fence height along the east front property line facing Rock Royal Drive from four feet to six feet in an R four high density residential district. The subject site is located in the Westmarket area and urban service area and is outside of the rural areas. Here's some context for you. Here's an aerial view. The
surrounding future land use to the north is Res9 and C L. To the east, south and west is all Res9. Hmm.
The surrounding zoning, R4 and AC to the north, and to the east, south and west is all R4.
The subject site consists of a single family dwelling and approximately 0.12 of an acre. The applicant is requesting a variance to allow an increase in the maximum fence height on the east property front from four feet to six feet. It is a corner lot. If approved, would allow the applicant to bring the existing six-foot-tall vinyl fence that is currently in the Rock Royal right-of-way along the eastern property. Once moved out of that right-of-way, um it would peak than in conformance on the eastern property front. On October 5th, the applicant received
an an ordinance violation warning that the fence must be four feet in height on a front setback on the frontage. On January 18, 2023, the applicant received an um citation from Code Compliance that property remains in violation with a six-foot high privacy fence on the double frontage lot.
On June 23rd, um, the court heard the local ordinance violation um and received a judgment to fix the violation within 120 days. There was a time extension um That was agreed on by both parties. And on August 22nd, the Board of County Commissioners approved a waiver of fees for the fence height variance that you're hearing tonight.
This is what the variance would grant if approved.
And this would be without the variance.
And this is coming with a recommendation for approval with conditions as provided in your agenda packet.
Charles GreyChair
All right. Thank you
Liam Devine
very much.
Charles GreyChair
Do you have any questions? What questions do we have from the diet? S
Connected City
so the reason I wanted this pulled, it was really not because I have a problem with it. I think she absolutely should have the the six-foot fence on the side of the house. Um the issue I had with it is I don't see how that's a variance. Um it came as an ordinance that uh or it came as a violence. violation to an ordinance talking about a double frontage lot. She does have a double frontage lot with the road behind the house as well as in front of the house and uh it clearly states in that ordinance that there is a limit
to four feet in the front and then six feet is fine in the on the back side on that back frontage. So um the the way the ordinance was written was written saying there was a violation of that, which there wasn't. There is no ordinance, and correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no ordinance I can see that governs a corner lot. So she also has frontage on the east side of the property, which is the the piece in question that's the six feet. The only thing I see was ordinance 1003.3c
that says the side or rear can be six feet. I know there's another issue with the fence being built on the county right-of-way. And so that's I understand that has to be fixed. That was, it looks like to me that was an error from the fencing company. And I can see where they calculated it wrong when they drew it. But I don't see how it's a it's a variance because it's there's nothing saying that it can't be six feet on the side of the property. Those there's no difference with corner lots
that I that I know of.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
The section that you're referring to.
Connected City
Um the fencing section is one zero zero point or one zero zero three. I think three point one.
Jon Moody
Is there some definition of double frontage because I think
Connected City
Yeah, it was somewhere else.
Jon Moody
So when one has a corner lot, one is considered in the land development code you have two front yards and two side yards. But I don't know is there a specific definition of double frontage somewhere that you're referring to?
Connected City
In her case she has a road on three sides. Three sides. So that's the that's that's why this is a question. She's a three-front
Unidentified speakerVoice A
box. Right. Or a through lot in the double frontage.
Connected City
Right. And I don't see there where there's it's defined the double frontage is defined, I forget where, but it was defined as a road that is parallel to the road that goes in front of the front door. So the the one in question is a road that's perpendicular to the road that goes in front of the front. in front of the front door not parallel.
Denise
So if so if I may. Um so first off uh for it it could be. It doesn't say that it has to be that way that uh Perpendicular or non-perpendicular. And secondly, we did do a remedial amendment to land development code. So now it reads on corner lots and double frontage lots, gates, fences, and walls shall not exceed four feet in height in the front yard that is parallel to the principal building line of the residence where the front door is located, or in the front of the dwelling unit. So that clear that remedial
remedial amendment fixed that situation in land development. Code. Was that
Connected City
just recently?
Denise
Yes, but we were told that's remember she was the court found her guilty, and this it they did say that the way to fix it is to come through for a variance. So that's why we're here. So and secondly, that has always been it, there's precedence set in that that is the way that that code has been interpreted. Thirdly, there's a section in the land development code that explains that a corner lot is considered a lot that's a double frontage lot. So
when you get a setback on a corner lot, for example, I know she has a triple frontage, but when you get a setback on a corner lot, you have to meet two fronts and two sides. So you get two front setbacks and two side setbacks. So we're here because the core. Said in order to fix this she'll she'll have to work with the county and the work with the county is doing a variance, so that's why we're here. And we're not recommending against the variance as you saw the Board of County Commissioners waive the fees. Yeah, so that's why we're
Connected City
I'm just wondering how we got here because it's you know it's obviously uh unclear in the ordinance the way it was written for a situation like this. And so it seems like it wasn't being applied properly. The only the only thing I saw was just governing side and rear lots or side and rear. Um Lot lines can be six feet.
Denise
Yeah, the code as I stated reads the way that I that and that was adopted um towards the end of last year.
Jon Moody
Was the applicant offered an opportunity to pursue a variance before
Denise
going to
the
absolutely, yes, yes, she was.
Connected City
So the the code the the you the one you just read was the fix.
Denise
The fix just to clarify because there was precedence set for interpretation. That way when we interpret something in the code, we don't want to continue to interpret things. We want to make it clear in the code and that's why we fix the code.
Connected City
And so the code now says that corner lots have to have a four f have four feet on the side.
Denise
That is correct. along the front. And and just to let you know, and and I do feel really bad for Miss Shirley, because this is because someone else in the subdivision received a similar notice and that person then went ahead and uh turned her in and I feel really, really bad about that. So this is how this came to to pass.
Connected City
Okay, well for what it's worth, I mean uh on a side lot you should still be able to even if it's a corner lot you should have on your side you should still be able to have six foot. But that's just my opinion and you know
Denise
And under the code you are you just have to meet the front setback in order to get that. You just have to meet the front back
Connected City
Yeah, but it's just on a lot that size it's impossible.
Denise
Yes, that's another thing that we really struggled through because the house was built like in nineteen seventy-two. The lot the it's what we call a small out of record, you know, predates the code. So that's why you see a lot of the things set back in the way they are, but the code says that any new things have to meet the current code.
Charles GreyChair
Right. Okay, so uh we have a hand up there. Are you the applicant?
Christopher Poole
I'm
Charles GreyChair
not
Christopher Poole
our name.
Charles GreyChair
Okay. Would you like to come
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
up and speak? Well you probably should let the applicant speak first. She said she was the applicant. Are you representing the applicant?
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Oh no I am the applicant. Oh
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
I th okay. Okay.
Charles GreyChair
Okay, if you give us your name and address please.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Uh Dawn Shirley, [address removed].
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Thank you.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
The only thing that I really wanted to add, um is the moving it in the five feet, the way um Like you had just said, the way the house and the property was constructed, there's not a lot of room on the side. Um when I bought the house there was already a pool in the backyard and there's already pool pump equipment that goes out beyond the point where I'm even allowed a fence. So if I do have to
move my fence in five feet, which is the um criteria to get approved. I'm gonna have to pay to have my whole pool pump uh redone um in order to have a fence that protects me um on the side of my garage door and in my backyard.
Charles GreyChair
So that that pump has been there for a while?
Unidentified speakerVoice B
It's been there s uh for fifteen years, I think.
Connected City
Okay. So that pump 'cause it looks like you have a five foot um setback on the side, on both sides. So it's just it's a s it's a sixty foot wide lot and it's a fifty foot wide house. So it looks like you're about I looked at the survey, it looked like it's about five feet on each side. So you so does the pool pump equipment come out past that five feet? Yes.
Just so is it the fence that comes in because there's a little fence around the pool pump. Is there a f is it the fence that comes out past it or is it the actual equipment?
Unidentified speakerVoice B
The actual equipment.
Connected City
Okay.
Charles GreyChair
Which s which side is it on? Is it on the It's on the east side. The east side.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
You can kind of see the little fence. Um, it's by the white square. That's where the the pool pump and the fence is. Um the reason so I only moved the fence out enough to get my lawnmower through to m to mow the backyard. Um And I moved I made sure that the fence was far back from the front of the house in order to not I mean I did my due diligence and I read
the code exactly how you read it, that I could have a six-foot fence on my side yard. I even called the county, the fencing company called the county. Um both of us were given the same answer. I didn't know it was gonna be an issue at the time. So I didn't even think to write down a name of a representative. It just I didn't think it was gonna be an issue. So when I called, I said, How far from the center of the road do I need to have my fence? They said 20 feet. Um Travis with Prestige also called. He was told 20 feet. Um
through this last almost year and a half of going to court and hearings. The only thing that I can think of why we were given that information. was when the representative was looking at the code. One of the drawings showed 20 feet on a corner lot. But that was for the site triangle, which I did meet. And the only thing I can think of is they were looking at that and telling me 20 feet from the center of the road as a misunderstanding of the thing. That's what
Connected City
it looked like to me.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
But that's Thousands of dollars. But you have
Connected City
a big right-of-way on the back. Um your fence meets that, it meets the property line on the
Unidentified speakerVoice B
back.
Connected City
Did you have a survey done when the
Unidentified speakerVoice B
fence was
Connected City
put up?
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Yes.
Connected City
So before the fence was put up in
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Yes. Yeah, when I was purchasing the home, I had a survey. Um the survey was given to all three of the fence Pasco County licensed fencing companies that gave me quotes. Um I'm a new homeowner. This is the first time I've ever done anything like this, so I was under the impression I was doing everything that I needed to. Um so that's why when I called and they said 20 feet from the center, Travis called, he was told the same thing. Um And so I
Connected City
Unfortunately the survey takes precedent over that where your actual lot line is. So they it was on them that they built it over the the lot line, the the fence company, especially if they had a survey ahead of time. So regardless of what they say setbacks are on the road, you can't build past your lot line. So that's just just for your information.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
You should probably be talking to your fence company about making them correct.
They should have followed the survey. I get the point about the height, but a fence company should know where the survey line is so they're not so they're keeping the fence on your property.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Right. And that's what was a little con confusing to me because there was three. It wasn't just one, it was three that that uh did. My opinion
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
your fence company made a mistake.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Right.
Connected City
Same here that I actually looked at the little hand drawing that they had and when you take the measurements because they they can measure on site that it's a f even without a survey they could figure out it was wrong because they can measure the house is fifty feet wide and they have five feet on one side and they have nine feet on the other which would give you a sixty four feet across the back. But they had clearly written on their sixty feet across the back. Right. So they were they were off, you know. Mm on that originally. So I would I would get with them to To rectify that part of it to move it
back onto your property line.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Okay.
Connected City
Uh but what about the pump? That's been every fifteen years.
Christopher Poole
How far over is that pump? It looks like it's so
Unidentified speakerVoice A
survey. It looks like it's one point two feet. Yeah, pull this up a little bit.
The corner of the fence is three feet east from one point. I'm sorry.
Jon Moody
Coffee, so it's blurry.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
So can I ask Lean the question about that? So your condition of approval requires the removal of the fence out of the right of way. It doesn't really address the the pool equipment, what I mean, what is the county's position on that?
About whether that needs to be moved or I mean
Connected City
Otherwise there'd be a gap in the fence around the pool equipment.
Liam Devine
So from my understanding and as Don Shirley just stated that it was her knowledge that she was gonna have to move that out of there as well to then be able to put that fence there. Um that's not in your conditions of approval. If that is a condition you would like in there that that would have to be removed and not in the county right of way, and we can certainly add that as a condition. Well I'm trying to figure out a way to be less honorous
Connected City
on how
to do that.
Yeah, exactly. More so, right?
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
But I but I I was just asking, is it your position that it needs to be moved?
Liam Devine
Yes, it's in the county right of way. So I would and not my area of expertise, but I would imagine you would have to have some sort of license maintenance agreement to have anything in the county right-of-way. So it shouldn't be there.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
But it would have been there if she wanted to put up the fence.
Chris Williams
Yeah.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
So that when the county acquired the right-of-way they assumed that they knew that there was something already there.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Well, I don't know when the acquired the county acquired this right. No, right. We could have acquired it before she put before the put we don't know the facts about when that was put in
Unidentified speakerVoice D
circumstances. It was platted platted and so the county acquired the right of way via plat and When did you purchase the home?
Unidentified speakerVoice A
sorry. Um twenty twenty-two.
Connected City
So that was existing that's I mean I would think that would be something that you show in the the survey f when you purchase a home too. It's something your title insurance or t your title company should look at.
Charles GreyChair
Did you get did you get a survey when you purchased it? I'm sorry. Did you get a survey when you purchased your home? You did. Okay.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Oh sorry. Good. Uh yes, I did have a survey when I purchased the home and I believe they the the previous owner did leave me a lot of the um paperwork on what was done and I believe the pool was built in twenty twelve.
Christopher Poole
Was was the survey the same survey that's in our agenda package? Or is it what it looks like?
Jon Moody
Just because Derek just because she's got a minor encroachment into the county right away, the title insurance company wouldn't have sp flagged her Property cloud on title or some question of whether she had cleaned the property if it's just a fence property. That's why I was wondering if the they generally ensure over encroachments like this on a routine basis.
Unidentified speakerVoice E
What was what the main side of it? Oh thank you.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Well, I mean part of the issue is you're here on a fence variance and the only condition of approval is to move the fence. Um
I'm not sure you have enough facts to be and you're not even really being asked to make a decision about what to do with the pool equipment. So My recommendation would be that just she have a separate meeting with the county to figure out if there's something she can do about the pool equipment. And maybe there could be a license and maintenance agreement, but we don't know when that was permitted. We don't know if the county permitted it in that location. There's a lot of facts we don't have on the pool equipment, so my recommendation would be that you just approve the can the variance as is with the
condition to move the fence. and then she'll have to have a separate meeting with the county to do with the pool equipment.
Connected City
And and it may be very possible once you take that fence down around the pool equipment you may be able to squeak it by 'cause it's that fence looks like it's out just a little bit from the pool equipment, so So that's something you can work on.
So
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
maybe her friend's company who who was clearly at fault here would help her with the cost of moving that since That should have came up when this pickle.
Connected City
Yeah.
Uh yeah, it's Yeah, it's it's a clear error in writing in their in their proposals, so Um
Charles GreyChair
Why are there some precedent for granting a variance for th something being in the right of way? It's been there for a number of years. And At least I'm aware of at least one that was given. And uh
I mean I j I How they paint me there.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Well me too, but the one problem that she's got is if she wants to put the fence on the property line at six feet. Right, then you have a either way it's in the way of the fence. So it's really kind of point.
Connected City
Yeah, otherwise you'd have to be over the property line by a foot or whatever. And we'd be back in the same problem. So I don't know. I I
Jon Moody
just questioned for county staff, can a license and maintenance agreement be issued to allow a fence to go a foot into the county right away, just as we might landscaping or
Unidentified speakerVoice A
pool equipment as we're talking about it?
Connected City
Yeah, it's just a fence. It's not I mean it's it's no permanent it's PVC fence, so it's it's not concrete footers or block walls or anything like that.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Yeah, I mean th again part of the issue we have here is that there's a separate process to use the county's right-of-way, which that's granted usually by staff or you know, a real estate department or or right of a yeast permanent department. There's
That's not something that you all would decide anyway, because out of this circumstances under which somebody can use the county's right-way. So
Jon Moody
maybe she could ask them to vacate the right-of-way around the the pool equipment.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Which also is a separate process that goes to the Board County Commissioner. So I mean there are probably ways to address her issues with the pool equipment, but There are not ways that this group can do anything
Christopher Poole
about. Well be before you do any of that, looking at the pictures and Shirley you you provide it it's tough to see in the pictures obviously, but it looks like you might have a foot. Over a foot inside of there to your physical pool equipment. There might be some plumbing that needs to be redone or something like that. Again, it's really tough to I'm trying to look through your fence, your wooden fence here, but that would be your first step to see if you do have that that's a
Jon Moody
good
Christopher Poole
I
Jon Moody
can tell you from personal experience. I know your surveyor personally and I'm certain you could drop by and put this little GPS pole on your pool equipment pad and tell you whether or not you got a problem in ten seconds and he'd probably do that out of the goodness of his heart. He's a nice guy.
Connected City
Yeah. I think you might have enough room there. Yeah,
Christopher Poole
it looks like you do. So
Connected City
Yeah.
Christopher Poole
Cute dog too, by the
Unidentified speakerVoice F
way.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Oh is he in the vector. Oh thank you.
Connected City
What?
But, you know, for what it's worth to the to the Kenneth Commission it's I'm I'm glad that the ordinance was prepared. Um but you know I I take personal issue with the fact that now that you know, that you still have to get a variance if you want to have a six foot fence on the side of your house on a corner lot. So Just for what it's worth. They'll they'll hear this coming from me.
So I think that's all I had. I just wanted to try to help.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Okay, thank you. I appreciate it.
Connected City
Okay.
Charles GreyChair
Anything else from anyone else?
Yeah. No please state your name and address.
Unidentified speakerVoice G
Hi, I am Marcy Delgado. I live at [address removed], which is Kitty Corner to Dawn Shirley's home. Um I I first I'd like to thank you for letting me come up, but there are so many houses in our neighborhood on Corner Lots that have six foot privacy fences. On my walk I count over a hundred. This young lady bought this house, she's fixed it up, she's done beautiful work to it. The fence is sitting back, y it doesn't
block any right of way, any roadway. anything like that. And I personally think that this was a vendetta from the gentleman who got caught by the county when he put up a brick wall and then a six foot fence, so he had a ten foot fence. Um and he busted a Watermate and that's how he got caught by the county when he was digging. Um and as a result he turned in all the neighbors within like a three block radius of him. Um There
are hundreds of homes in our neighborhood that have six-foot fences on corner lots that literally go right out to the corner and block right of way everything else. Um so I personally feel like this should be approved and allowed. I mean, her property is beautiful, she's doing everything right, and I just take great offense to the fact that because one man Had a vendetta, um, this is happening to her. Um I think if you're gonna set a precedence with
her fence, then the county code enforcement needs to go around and violate every single corner lot with a six foot fence so that it's a fair precedent because it's not a fair precedent as it stands. Thank you.
Charles GreyChair
Okay. Any questions, anybody?
Connected City
Yeah, I think we're all in in favor of approving you know, it's again the sp the spirit of the law, it it should you know, that variance makes sense. So now building building across property lines, that's a different story. I guess and those you know, those still need to be addressed, you know, it's Yeah. But
Unidentified speakerVoice G
Okay. Thank you.
Charles GreyChair
I hear.
Sounds like you have a good neighbor at least.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Yeah, at least one actually represent the whole neighborhood
Charles GreyChair
except
Unidentified speakerVoice H
that everybody's at work today. I'm the only one that's not working at all.
Charles GreyChair
Okay. Uh anyone else like to speak? Mr. Devine, would you have anything else to say?
You've caused enough trouble.
Jon Moody
He didn't do it. He solved it. The code enforcement did it.
Charles GreyChair
Okay, so what's our pleasure?
Jon Moody
I'll move to approve item PC eleven.
Charles GreyChair
Second. All in favor signify by saying aye.
Jon Moody
PC PC
Charles GreyChair
ten,
Christopher Poole
yeah.
Charles GreyChair
Sorry. All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed, like signs. Okay.
Connected City
Or it's worth sorry for what you've gone through.
Charles GreyChair
Yeah, and you pull that. Mm-hmm.
Connected City
Yeah. It was more to
Liam Devine
bring this issue up. Lim Divine Planning and Development. This is P12.