PDD-24-7735

Published agenda

2 appearances between Oct 18, 2023 and Nov 14, 2023, at 2 boards.

OutcomeDenied by the Board of County Commissioners on Nov 14, 2023

Denied Staff’s recommendation of approval based on compatibility of the neighborhood, the fact that these were privately maintained roadways, and everything else in the area was five-acre tracts by a roll call vote with Commissioner Starkey voting nay.

Official title

Zoning Amendment (Regular) – Joseph Disano – Change in Zoning from an A- C Agricultural District to an A-R Agricultural-Residential District – East Central Pasco County – At the Terminus of Pommel Place Approximately 330 Feet South of Broken Bit Lane – Containing Approximately 5.01 Acres

On a calendar

Oct 18, 2023 → Nov 14, 2023 · click a mark to jump to that appearance

Every appearance1 of 2 are in a recording

Each appearance carries the official title above. Where the county’s wording changed, the change is marked: added and ~~removed~~. Steps with no marks were worded identically.

TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 74% of 215 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong. 1 of the 2 appearances are not in any recording, so what was said at those is not here.

1Oct 18, 2023
Village of Pasadena Hills Planning and PolicyP8Public hearingNo disposition in the minutes
Zoning Amendment (Regular) – … in Zoning from an ~~A- C~~ A-C Agricultural District to an … Containing Approximately 5.01 Acres
Open this item →No recording
2Nov 14, 2023
Board of County CommissionersP106Public hearingDenied
Approved minutes
Denied Staff’s recommendation of approval based on compatibility of the neighborhood, the fact that these were privately maintained roadways, and everything else in the area was five-acre tracts by a roll call vote with Commissioner Starkey voting nay.
Open this item →
30m
Jack MarianoChair
Yeah. We'll get one more. One more, P one oh six.
Ron OakleyVice Chair
Item P 106 was published in the Tampay Times on October 4, 2023.
Liam Devine
Loom Divine Planning and Development Item P106. Gavin Covey and I worked on this project, but I think my colleague might need a little bit of a break. Some housekeeping before I begin. We received an ex parte from Commissioner Oakley's office, which has been submitted to the clerk's office, and there was an updated resolution that was submitted to the clerk's office correcting a date said November. 11th on the resolution, it's November 14th. So item PDD 24-7735
in the name of Joseph D'Sano. It's a Euclidean zoning amendment from AC Agricultural District to AR Agricultural Residential District. The future land use classification is Res1 under the Comprehensive Plan. The applicant proposes to subdivide the property into four equal parcels and build a single family detached dwelling on each lot in conformance with the AR standards for development.
The subject site is located within the central market area and is outside the urban concentration and rural areas.
The subject site is located within the Village of Pasadena Hills Stewardship District, but is not located within a village. And the subject site is located within the Rural Enclave area. This is a look at the surrounding areas.
Here is a context map. You'll notice that on the Smith 80 MPUD to the south is adjacent to the site. That MPUD was approved with 160 single-family detached homes with lots being 40 by 100.
Here's an aerial view of the site.
The surrounding future land use to the north east and west is all res ones.
Kathryn Starkey
Do we need a presentation? The guy's going to AR.
Right? They're going to AR?
Liam Devine
Yes, they are.
Kathryn Starkey
I'll move approval.
Liam Devine
I think w I think there might be some individuals here for opposition. I don't know if you want me to finish my presentation. Yeah, finish the presentation. I'm I I'm almost done. I promise you.
Um to the south is Res 3, um the surrounding zoning to the north, east and west is A um AC and to the south is an MU. And this is coming with a recommendation for approval. I'm here if you have any questions.
Jack MarianoChair
Any questions?
Hello.
Mm-hmm.
Liam Devine
a question.
Seth Weightman
are these unimproved as are these unimproved roads?
Liam Devine
I'm sorry, say that again?
This is a privately maintained pri um road. So it I believe we have um our access team online. I believe it is a substandard road, but I believe they don't trigger any improvements to it. But we have have our access team
Seth Weightman
online.
Unidentified speaker
Yes.
Seth Weightman
How many?
Unidentified speaker
Four. Four, four. Trigger would be ten, right? So only um I'm gonna let
Liam Devine
my colleagues online who are are experts in what triggers improvements speak to that. I think Bennett Elba would be on the key to speak towards that.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Uh yes, uh good evening. Uh this is Benal Transportation Planner.
correct uh place is a private road maintained and it is substandard and because their daily trips for four houses is 38 vehicles per day, they're pretty much exempt from the substandard roadway analysis and mitigation.
Jack MarianoChair
Any other questions?
No,
Seth Weightman
I just was under the impression that we We're breaking with board policy that we get into approving significant development on unimproved roads. I think Mike and I had a conversation about that, so just wanted to be cautious.
Jack MarianoChair
Yeah. Okay. And would the applicant like to come forward?
Kathryn Starkey
Amazing.
Joseph Disano
Hello, my name is Joseph Disano. I live at uh [address removed], and I have been sworn in
Um the paper um before you is a plot for the uh land. Uh it's dividing into four equal parcels. Um with the future planning department uh the land is actually uh planned for future land use as becoming a res one, which would allow the one home per one acre.
Um pretty much the plan, um I just want to make uh four single family homes. Uh anyone who's looking to move into like a more rural area, it would allow them to have you know one acre, one point two acres I believe. Um and it would allow them to enjoy the more rural life.
Um the second page I have on there is a very simplified tax form. Um I know a lot of the concerns uh prior at the prior meeting uh was addressing like the land um the roadway because um uh two two roads into the or there's three main roads into the property um that are privately maintained and then there is uh Fairview Heights which runs from Hancart all the way to um
Fort King I believe. Uh there was actually um a plan to have that road paved last uh November, but it did fall through. I believe it was a budgeting issue. Um so this as I mentioned is just a simplified version of what the potential taxes could be. So um the estimate for a five three manufactured home would run about two hundred and fifty. Um The tax
revenue gained from four of those homes, if it was to be uh manufactured, is about eighteen thousand, which could contribute to actually paving the Fairview Heights Road. All the other roads are maintained by all the neighbors. There's no HOA in the community. And if we go back to the first uh page The way the property would be divided, it allows for a 30-foot easement at the top of the property. And that's uh and that's
an expense to myself. No neighbors are you know concerned with that. Um The only neighbors that actually have are northeast and west of the property. South of the property is about eighty acres of farmland.
Any questions?
Kathryn Starkey
So uh
Jack MarianoChair
Mr. Starkey.
Kathryn Starkey
Okay, this is the first on hearing of this one. So you are wanting to put four mobile homes on here?
Joseph Disano
Um I'm not sure what um I'm gonna put on there yet. Um the plan would be um either like manufactured or concrete construction. As you mentioned earlier in the meetings, um, you know, we're looking for more low density impact in single family homes. That's exactly what I'm trying to provide.
Kathryn Starkey
And ha and I don't see a road. Are you just saying they're gonna drive across each other's property to get to their property?
Joseph Disano
Uh I'm gonna part of the thirty foot easement at the top is gonna be like a paved road or like a shell.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
He's being he's showing it in what would be a m what would be a minor rural subdivision where he's taking access by easement to those laws.
Kathryn Starkey
Right.
Okay, this is kinda weird. Sorry.
Come on, I'll I'll listen to the other commissioners.
Joseph Disano
As I mentioned with the future planning department it is uh it did say it was a res one in the planning department. It's future
Unidentified speakerVoice B
land use classification as res one.
Joseph Disano
Right.
Jack MarianoChair
Yeah. Any other questions? Okay. This is a public hearing. Anyone here here from the public like to speak to this item?
Ron OakleyVice Chair
I do have um individuals signed up. First one I have signed up is Lauren Stonahy.
Followed by Janet Gibbs.
Followed by Destiny Miller.
Biggie Brian
I'm just on this next.
Ron OakleyVice Chair
So Lawrence Donah has the other two.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Yeah, One's Don E, [address removed].
And I looked all over Zephyr. My parents used to own a place in Zephyrhills. Two acre partial. I didn't go over that area and look for a place to live. I kept looking around. And I found the five acre parcel. And the next road over is ten. Now how in the hell can somebody come in After I waste all my time looking around for a five acre partial
Saying no we're gonna make them one acre now.
I'm originally from Michigan. I got a farm up there. My property calls for two and a half acres. I can split it. I they ain't gonna let you go over one acre. You're staying at two and a half acres, by God. There ain't somebody coming in and saying, well I'm gonna take this corner and now I'm gonna split these half acre parcels out of two and a half. Don't work. And let me tell you something. I don't know if any of you went down fair few
heights.
If you got false teeth, you better put 'em in your pocket or you're gonna lose 'em. I got goddamn. Uh Vehicles up there in Michigan that I like to bring down here and drive. They're antiques. It's all reconditioned, all redone. I can't bring 'em down here 'cause you can't get down through Fair view heights. And then our road is not properly taken care of.
It I I actually I got a uh Bronco I'm restoring down here right now, ninety six Bronco I purchased down here. Off a guy. And I'm restoring it. I can't get over five mile an hour. Down Hackamore. or Fairview Heights. I've cocked in Tik County quite a few times. Well we can't rain it uh grade it unless it rains.
Well, it rained. There ain't nobody raining. What are they gonna do? Have one rain and uh get all the roads grab uh graded And I imagine doom. You guys going, all right, I'm pulling this pavement up. You got millings. Why don't you put millings down? Millings don't work. Like hell they don't. I don't know who the hell they think they're talking to. Up there in Michigan, we get 'em freed from the county. We resell and put in private roads. With the millings.
The only thing they're afraid of is they ain't gonna have they ain't gonna have to grade that road no more. They're gonna lose that road because once you put the millings down Put a vibrating uh roller on that baby. Stay off it, don't deter grade it, 'cause you'll mess the whole road up. And there is part of that road, uh Fairview Heights. It looks like there's been some millings put down. That's nice and smooth. But man when you drop off it, look out. Back Fairview
Heights. Ninety nine percent of your people are all driving around one side of the road. Think no matter which way they're going. They're on the no uh north side of uh Fairview Heights Because the other side My truck. Well hell, off the road you go. I pulled several vehicles tired of there. So your time's up? Pardon me? Your time's up. Yeah.
Ron OakleyVice Chair
Mr.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Dunhear
Ron OakleyVice Chair
can you say that?
Unidentified speakerVoice C
There ain't no road going back to that property. Okay. Uh someone asked.
Ron OakleyVice Chair
Yes, Mr. Donahy, were you sworn in? Did you did you get sworn in? No.
Jack MarianoChair
I th
Ron OakleyVice Chair
it
was
a long time ago. And everybody stood up and then I swore them in. I think I saw you stand up. I just want to make sure it's on the record that you were sworn in.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Now that's work.
Ron OakleyVice Chair
All right.
I know. Um, Mr. Chairman the applicant had showed documents and I don't know if he wants it on the record. So if you want these documents that you showed on the record, you would have to request a motion um for it to be
Unidentified speakerVoice B
moved. Move those in,
Ron OakleyVice Chair
board. We want to receive my file. Second.
Jack MarianoChair
All in favor say aye. Aye.
Ron OakleyVice Chair
Alright, thank you. Oh, next person. Come on up up 'cause I know I called your name, I'll get you in a second. All right, Janet Gibbs.
Janet Gibbs
Thank you.
Ron OakleyVice Chair
Hello,
Janet Gibbs
I'm Janet Gibbs, [address removed].
Ron OakleyVice Chair
And uh and Ms. Gibbs, you've been sworn? Yes, I will be able to do it.
Janet Gibbs
First off, um I'd like to say that Our road comes off of Fairview, you go down Hackamore Road, then you turn on the Broken Bit, and then you go up all the way to the very back, and you're on Palm Old, right? That's for who had property, it's Um we bought our property in '98 from George Newcomb. I think everyone knows him. Anyway, um He created this whole subdivision and it's
called colony rich estates and we are deed restricted. One home per five acres.
So This would just put more traffic on our roads that are not kept up because it's the property owned by the owners. And there's it would just create a precedent that we don't want.
Oh.
Jack MarianoChair
Thank you.
Ron OakleyVice Chair
Thank you. And uh Destiny Miller?
Unidentified speakerVoice D
Hi, I'm Destiny Miller. Uh address is [address removed]. Um Yes ma'am, I've been sworn in. Um where's the little pointy thing? I get to can I use that? She must use a pointer. Oh, it's been gone.
Jack MarianoChair
Did I get back?
Unidentified speakerVoice D
Oh, okay.
Um Palmell Place, uh like everybody else was saying, um Fairview Heights is up here, which you can't see, but once you
come
off of Fairview Heights hand cart and um Broken Bit are both a one lane drive. Um I actually live can you like zoom in on Palm El Place again? Sorry.
Oh wait.
Oh no. Okay. Okay, so
Um back here is where he is trying to get the property. This is my house right here, [address removed]. Um that road right there going down is also a one-lane road. I've actually gotten stuck trying to get out of the dirt when it's been raining and got stuck on the side of the road. Um my husband drives 30 foot trailers every single day going in and out of the house. We actually have a neighbor that welds trailers back together for us because they fall apart going down
the road because only Fairview Heights is maintained, which it doesn't get maintained very often. Maybe like three times a year. I've been there for two years and I've probably seen it ten times. Hackamore Road and Broken Bit are both maintained by a couple of our neighbors who have skid steers, tractors, whatever you can get off there. to have at least eight cars driving back there on a one lane road and I the opening to his property is probably from here. I
mean it's not I don't even know how you get two cars to go in and out at the same time. Um I had other stuff, but you know, going blank now. But thank you. I I have a
Kathryn Starkey
question. Yes ma'am. I'm looking at your property on the property pricer site. Yes ma'am. Do you have one, two, three, four, five mobile homes on your property?
Janet Gibbs
No, no, no. I love it.
Unidentified speakerVoice D
No no no. I have uh am I doing it backwards? I have that's my house right there and then That's my house and then there's a barn and then this right here is for my cattle and stuff. Um we actually have um like uh culvert that my husband has put in right between these trees because there's so much water in the pasture that gets flooded out. We actually don't even have a pond, but once it gets a little bit of rain that actually
turns into a pond right in front of my house. Um when it gets wet driving down the driveway onto Palm El Place, the water actually goes down our driveway. It literally like is a running river every time it rains for like more than 10 minutes. Also with all the flooding that already happens, to have four houses, I know you're gonna have to build up to get those houses out there. I just you know, I I came out here, I bought a house when I was twenty one years old, and to have Yeah.
I've taken care of it all by myself with my husband. Um but I came out here, I have two kids, I fell in love with the property, everybody has horses, cattle, you name it. I have chickens, two cats, outside cats, pigs, goats, a donkey. I just I love I fell in love with the rural area. And you know, I I came from a place my parents lived in Plant City and they lived on an acre property and I was thankful enough to show FFA and everything, but I came
out here to live rule. and still have neighbors. I mean everybody cares, um We had a petition signed. I believe thirty two people signed that petition and really I mean it'll impact all of us, but really it's only impacting the three and that many people showed up and signed this petition.
Kathryn Starkey
And you're at seven, two two two thousand. Yes, ma'am. Okay, maybe I'm not reading this right. Yes,
Unidentified speakerVoice D
ma'am. Yeah, the the only way to get into his property is
Kathryn Starkey
it just says you have five pro pieces five buildings on your property. You may want to look at that. That's the
next
No, it says [address removed]. No ma'am. No. I'm just you should meet the You need
Unidentified speakerVoice B
to talk
Kathryn Starkey
to the
Unidentified speakerVoice B
property.
Kathryn Starkey
Because you're getting taxed more than you need to be. That's what I'm saying. Yeah.
Unidentified speakerVoice D
Is that why I got taxed a lot last year?
Kathryn Starkey
It says you have uh one, two, well. Is that why my mortgage went up? Yeah. You need to talk to a proper I always look up people's stuff when they come up here. So you guys um but yeah, so I just said you need to fix that.
Unidentified speakerVoice D
Yes ma'am. Yeah we have a two uh
Kathryn Starkey
and it's to your to your advantage.
Unidentified speakerVoice D
A two a two stable barn and then um a twenty uh a two thousand fifty seven square foot house. They're calling it
Kathryn Starkey
mobile homes.
Unidentified speakerVoice D
Yes. Yeah. Five. I promise I don't have five
Jack MarianoChair
mobile homes. I
Unidentified speakerVoice D
live in one and then I have a barn.
Jack MarianoChair
You can talk about property price to save some money.
Denise
Okay, so just to clarify the record, what matters if you scroll up is where it says parcel card. She only has one mobile home, card one of one. She had see on the top?
Oh my god, I get to use this today. Um see it says card one of one. If she had more than one mobile home, it would say card one of two or card one of three. Um I you would probably have to ask um Mr. Wells and see what this means, but I think this has to do with the way that they break down the taxation. But she you know, really and truly she only has one mobile home. If you like when
Kathryn Starkey
you look at
Denise
it, I know. If you scroll down a bit it'll probably also have um Sonia if you don't mind scrolling down a bit, it'll probably have all the other things that she has on the property. So she has extra features, so she basically has a sun deck, a barn, you know.
It
Kathryn Starkey
really looked to me like it's saying there's
Denise
a I know, but if you want to compare it to the parcel that's to the north, which looks like there's several structures, maybe we can show an example. But it's it's only one card.
Jack MarianoChair
There's a different thank you very much.
Ron OakleyVice Chair
Okay, she's
Jack MarianoChair
done.
Ron OakleyVice Chair
yeah
Unidentified speakerVoice E
you can
Ron OakleyVice Chair
move that anger.
Jack MarianoChair
Is there anyone else here to speak to this item? Okay, it'll go to the board. Commissioner Oakley got a question for your staff?
Ron OakleyVice Chair
I'm sorry, there's no one on WebEx.
Jack MarianoChair
Okay.
Ron OakleyVice Chair
I thought I heard somebody say that these are all r deed restricted one hole per five acres. Is that correct?
Liam Devine
That is what they said. I don't have any knowledge or information saying that it's it's one for five. That that would be news to me.
Ron OakleyVice Chair
Well how can we divide this into four lots if if it's deed restricted to one for five?
Kathryn Starkey
I need to we need to see her.
Jack MarianoChair
William if you would grab that and we'll have let's have the county attorney take a look at it.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
I'm not gonna know whether there his property is really difficult.
Ron OakleyVice Chair
It's just fine. We're dividing a piece of
Unidentified speakerVoice F
striping. It's clear.
Roger Mendoza
Come on. Well we're looking.
Unidentified speakerVoice D
I'm sorry, I forget stuff all the time. Um, just really quick, I I wasn't here when it happened but um at the first meeting when we came to this, a lot of our neighbors had spoken about um how there was a fire actually on his property a couple of years ago and the fire trucks actually had to cut through my neighbor's yard, like cut a fence because they couldn't get back. to the property to actually maintain the fire. So they actually had to cut through um
This property right here. So they actually wait, this property, sorry. So they had to come through here and cut through to get to the fire.
Joseph Disano
I ever money.
Jack MarianoChair
Um Yeah, come on up.
Joseph Disano
Alright, so to address all the concerns, um I'm not sure about the fire. Um she said Pummel Place is a one-lane road. She manages to get a 30-foot uh trailer with a truck around the tight curve, which there is. Uh but Pummel Place is actually that road is actually the most maintained out of all of them. Um as far as the um the coding from the uh building and permitting department uh based on when that parcel was created because
it was like created before 1975 it actually allowed uh one acre per or one home per acre at that time. That's the reason why that property allows for one acre which is why this whole process started. It was someone I talked to in the planning and development department. And what else?
And I guess that's pretty much
Jennifer McCarthy
it.
Kathryn Starkey
Can I ask you a question?
Jennifer McCarthy
Sure.
Kathryn Starkey
Looking in in the notes here, it said that you this is for your family.
Joseph Disano
Uh that was the intention, correct?
Kathryn Starkey
So like a little family conference?
Joseph Disano
Uh kind of, yes.
Kathryn Starkey
Mm-hmm.
Joseph Disano
So originally uh the plan was um to have my my family move on there. I have uh brothers family. Um my mother lives in the area and I was trying to bring my father up here. That's right. Um currently um due to you know interest rates and everything, um I'm just trying to future plan. Um my brother doesn't want to really live out there at the moment, uh but he's looking also to say Sell his current house. So just kinda waiting on interest rates and then seeing what we can get approved with
the county. And as I mentioned earlier with the future planning department, they already have it as future planning as a res one.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
That's ma that's the future land use classification. That's maximum density. That it you're not that's not an entitlement.
Joseph Disano
I understand that.
But I don't concern myself with their trailers, their trucks, uh a car going to and from the property, whether it's four cars or a truck with a trailer, I doubt a car is gonna destroy the roads any more than a truck with a trailer, horses.
Kathryn Starkey
It's kinda like chucky one. I used to live next door to my grandmother and there were little houses in the back. I enjoyed that compound living in Miami. Um And and there's trailers around here, so
Uh who's maintaining the roads? The neighborhood?
Joseph Disano
Uh all the neighbors. Uh except for Fairview Heights that's actually maintained by the county.
Jack MarianoChair
Please Yeah, please don't speak for the
Kathryn Starkey
Yeah, I just didn't know who if uh someone there had a tractor near going out and scraping it because we don't maintain non county growth.
Jack MarianoChair
All right. Any other questions for the applicant?
Anything else to add?
Ron OakleyVice Chair
Can
Unidentified speakerVoice B
we have a commission to approve this?
Kathryn Starkey
Uh
Unidentified speakerVoice B
this this went through V O P H. This did not go through Planning Commission. According to the according to the memo. Five
Kathryn Starkey
to
Unidentified speakerVoice B
two. Five to two wastewater. Is that correctly? It was This went to the OPH?
Liam Devine
Yes, this did go to the the OPH and it was five to two.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
So
I don't know whether the deed restrictions are still valid. I can't give you an opinion about whether the deed restrictions are still valid. It does appear that this lot was within the deed restrictions, but What has been presented is not signed and I have no idea whether or not they were re-recorded as they would need to be to be still valid. Sure.
Jack MarianoChair
Commissioner Weightman.
Seth Weightman
See the makeup of this community and the road system, again, it goes goes to my concern of unimproved roads. Every one of these four to five acres. I'm personally not comfortable with moving this, breaking this property up this way.
Jack MarianoChair
Yeah. You have a motion?
Seth Weightman
Uh I'll make a motion to uh deny uh rezoning to four four breaking in four lots.
Jack MarianoChair
Okay.
Seth Weightman
Well whoa
Unidentified speakerVoice B
whoa. So staff's recommendation. Well staff's recommending approval. Um
Kathryn Starkey
so did Pasadena so did B O P
Unidentified speakerVoice B
so it would be to move uh to deny the rezoning to AR, um, which is what's before you. Uh and I you know, that would be based on compatibility of the neighborhood, uh Um the fact that these are
privately maintained roadways and everything else in the area is at is at five acre track. I adopt
Seth Weightman
the county attorney's modified motion all the reasons stated to deny this request.
Jack MarianoChair
Out second. Okay. Any further discussion?
Any further discussion? Well you look at it. All in favor say aye. Aye. Commissioner Bradford is Mr. Brad is Commissioner Bradford on? I don't see him on. Oh I'm sorry. Hanging out. You don't see you don't see anyone. Do we have a motion of the second um World Call Home?
Kathryn Starkey
Commissioner Oakley.
Jack MarianoChair
Alright.
Kathryn Starkey
Commissioner Weightman? Aye. Commissioner Starkey? Well, I'm gonna go with staff and V O P H and I I would have been for it, so does that mean I'm a Nate? That's your name. That I'm a Nate. Commissioner Bradford?
Aye. And Chairman Mariano.
Jack MarianoChair
Aye. The
Kathryn Starkey
motion passes four to one.
Jack MarianoChair
Four to one. Thank you. Okay.
Kathryn Starkey
Now we have to go back to ours.