PDE-24-7739

Published agenda

Heard once, at the Board of County Commissioners on Sep 3, 2024.

No final outcomeEvery appearance was continued or left undisposed. Nothing in this archive shows it decided.

Official title

Zoning Amendment (Regular) – Fletcher MPUD – Mary L Fletcher Rev. Trust and Richard D. Fletcher – Rezoning Request from an A-C Agricultural District and an R-1MH Single-Family/Mobile Home District to an MPUD Master Planned Unit Development District to Allow for the Development of 350 Multi- family Apartment Dwelling Units, 160 Townhome Dwelling Units, and 100,000 Square Feet of Commercial and Associated Infrastructure on Approximately 100.6 Acres Located in North Central Pasco

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TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 69% of 444 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.

1Sep 3, 2024
Board of County CommissionersP58Public hearingContinued
Approved minutes
Approved to continue the item to the October 8, 2024 Board of County Commissioners meeting at 1:30 p.m. in Dade City.
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1h 22m
Ron OakleyChair
that. Is that all right, please? Yeah, we can turn it. Let's bring fifty-eight up. P fifty eight.
Liam Devine
Good afternoon, Leem Divine, Planning, Development, and Economic Growth Department. This is item P fifty eight. Before I begin, um I do want to do some housekeeping. I did receive Ex partees for all commissioners and um which will be submitted to the clerk's office. And if we could for the
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
record uh we have a hearing or a public Publication of this item on the May 1st, 2024 edition of the Tampa Bay Times and an affidavit of certified mailings and site postings. This item was continued from the June 18th, 2024 meeting to the August 21st, 2024 meeting, where it was continued to today.
Liam Devine
So item P58, PDE 24-7739, in the name of Fletcher M PewDie. This is an MPUD zoning amendment from AC Agricultural District and R1MH Single Family Mobile Home District to MPUD Master Plan Unit Development to allow for the development of 350 multifamily dwelling units, 160 town home dwelling units, and 100 square feet of commercial and associated infrastructure. It's on the south side of Legland Avenue
and east of US Highway 41. The subject site is located in the central market area and is outside of the urban service and rural areas.
Here is an aerial view.
a little bit more of a zoomed in aerial view for you.
The surrounding future land use to the north is AG and Res3, to the east is AG Res3, to the south is Res3 and R O R and to the west is Res3.
The surrounding zoning to the north is AC, RMH, and C2. To the east is AC and AR. To the south is AR and RMH. And to the west is RMH, C2, and M P U D.
As touched on before in the previous presentation, there are some surrounding MPUDs in the area. Tell Overa approximately 850 single-family homes. Enterprise Commerce Park, which has 200,000 square feet of industrial and 35,000 square feet of commercial. And then the Longleaf Grows MPUD, which I'm gonna make a correction from that first PowerPoint. There's 95,000 square feet of commercial, 15,000 square feet of office, and it was approved for
350 apartments.
Here is our master plan.
Ron OakleyChair
Okay, is the ri what is the red? The red's commercial.
Liam Devine
The red is commercial. So that's where the com commercial can go and then basically where the yellow is where residential can go. And I'm gonna show you um the conceptual plan.
Ron OakleyChair
Right. And then the blue is
Liam Devine
the right-of- Blue is actually the RPZ, which is the runway protection zone, and then basically the dashed red lines that go out from there is actually the approach surface floor. That is coming from your airport zoning ordinance that you approved about a year ago, that's in our land development code. So those are required um protection areas for the airport.
Ron OakleyChair
Okay. Where does the um 'cause I've I've been getting several messages about
People didn't mind so much the um Townhouse, but they did have an issue with the multifamily. Three hundred and fifty units. Where where are they placed on this map?
Liam Devine
So yes, I can well since we had the conceptual up, I can kinda go through. That is listed in condition one of your agenda packet. Um the This is a non-binding conceptual. But the there is condition one that
Ron OakleyChair
This map is non-binding?
Liam Devine
The conceptual is non-binding, but the parcels themselves has very specific language on how it can be developed. So the applicant wanted to have the option to use a loom. Um using a loom with a binding conceptual plan can sometimes be tricky because you basically have to have a conceptual plan for each option of the loom. So you would have to have I if there's eight different loom options, you would have to have eight different binding conceptuals with that loom. Yeah.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
I don't know. I don't know what you're saying really. Another way
Ron OakleyChair
to think about this, Nctar's Pito's playing playing development economic group. Another way to think about how Liam just described it is that you have binding patterns that will move from one portion of the site to another portion if they uh elect to do the commercial. For example, parcel A and parcel B. You if commercial one had parcel B, then you would have the binding pattern of parcel A imposed on parcel B. So you have this the binding patterns that are able to move
across the MPUD.
Ron OakleyChair
Okay.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
What about the rest of it? Likewise. Like
Liam Devine
likewise
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
So why can't we make this o okay. So it's somewhat bindy.
Liam Devine
Cor correct. The
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
pattern is binding the place that is not.
Liam Devine
So essentially staff um did agree that in parcel D where you're having townhomes right now and D1, um it would also be appropriate to have single family there. So that would be a bit of a step down in density. So having a loom allows parcel D and D one to have townhomes and single family homes. Now where you see um parcel C, That has townhomes and multifamily apartments. So there we we understood that if you didn't want to have multifamily apartments
there, the loom does allow that conversion to have townhomes there. So essentially, where you're seeing multifamily that could be stepped down to townhomes, and where you're seeing townhomes that could be stepped down to where you have single family. And that loom allows that. conditions on where that can be. So you can't just have single family across the whole project, you can't have m um apartments across the whole project. It it's specific to each parcel.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Would those town homes be required to be rear loaded?
Liam Devine
So twenty percent in parcel D and D one would be required to be rearloaded. If they go into parcel D, I believe that jumps up to thirty. But you're show
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
you're showing far more than twenty percent in your in this, in parcel D. Wait, what's the white what's the light colored things? Those are townhomes. Okay, so b the brown are the rear loaded and the
Liam Devine
brown are rear loaded and
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
the base.
Liam Devine
Let's see if I have a pointer here. So
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
you say that's twenty percent?
Liam Devine
So on their conceptual has more. The the NPUD
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
conditions
Liam Devine
just require
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
a
Liam Devine
minimum of twenty percent.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
I I I I'm have a little bit of heartburn that if if all this work can be thrown out the window.
Ron OakleyChair
Yeah. 'Cause
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
we have met and met and met
Ron OakleyChair
Well the issues the issues I have is the fact that it's conceptual and it's like we're We're deciding something that may be built this way or may not be built this way, but the fact of it is It's not engraved in stone.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
We've seen so many projects that come in here and they show us beautiful pictures. And you know, I remember one when I was on a school board on the LPA and it was on fifty-four. Um and it was a beautiful commercial project. That's not what we got. Yeah. So um
Seth Weightman
okay. Mr. Weightman. Thank you, Chair. Liam on your map can you show us Where the line is where the What's it called? The Rural Transition
Liam Devine
Area is? Does that start right at Leland? So so yes, above Leland Avenue, which is right north of the site, that would be the rural transition area.
Seth Weightman
Made. for staff to bring up uh such a a a dense project right up against, you know, cramming it in there, which essentially that's my description. I don't know if the applicants here, but we've talked about this an awful lot. That's just a lot right up against it. That's not much of a a transition. i the product here I'm okay with some of it, I'm not okay with other pieces of it. It it just doesn't matter. necessarily fit with what's been built around it and what's going right up against
it. So um to go from as dense as possible right up to the real transition area it's a bit much for me. It's a bit heavy.
Jack Mariano
Okay. Mr. Mariano? And to kind of go along with that a little bit, um, if you look at uh the retention parcels uh next to the runway, uh talk to the residents and they can speak about it. When you have a long linear waterway that's right there, it's very good for birds to come in. Birds, geese, I mean it's not very it's not helpful with you when you have air for air air air traffic. Parcel G needs to be Changed as well. So if we're going to talk about doing a change, that's an area
and then maybe that can be incorporated to the side. And Commissioner Starkey you were talking about partial D and you were pretty emphatic as we were going through this through the land use as far as the rear load of townhomes. The map shows us 75%. is gonna be reloaded townhomes and we're being told it's only gonna be twenty percent. So I'm just wondering how did how did that shift happen?
Liam Devine
So again, this is a non-binding conceptual stuff.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
We have to pay attention to the non-binding stuff. Oh
Liam Devine
yeah.
Jack Mariano
That's right- that's why you're
Liam Devine
on the money. I'm just bringing it up so we can address it. Okay. Um So staff wanted more. Um the applicant was very resistant to that. Um they needed the flexibility, which is also why we have the loom. We understand that uh they're next to the airport um and
things may need to change because they're next to an airport. So allowing that flexibility with a loom and an unbinding, but while still trying to restrict it in the conditions, staff thought was the best approach.
I
don't
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
know. Go ahead. Well, just a thought and I I hear what you're saying um about the it is it is uh it is a little bit like of a unicorn as far as the density is up there. But um but aside from that I would say Um the legend, you know, maybe the legend is binding and and the form of the development has to
stay. I I don't know, I'm just trying to I'm not a planner, not a designer, but I'm I'm troubled. I'm troubled that we're being shown something that we're probably that we may not get. When we've worked so hard to get something as as a good a layout as this. That troubles me. 'Cause that's why I would that's the only reason I'd be kind to approve it. Approve it. So I maybe we can hear from the applicant, but Um Commissioner Oriano, it seems to me like they've
saved a lot of land for the airport.
Jack Mariano
Oh, we wish they had it.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
No, they did. They got G H and G one.
So I think that I think well we'll hear from the applicant on the airport study. I think that I think they may have met that but we'll hear from them. Um I'm just very concerned that we can see a a good layout and then it that's not what we get.
Jack Mariano
So Ms. Chairman? Yeah sure. So so as far as the d I mean the the airport conditions dictate what had to be preserved. I'm just saying th on parcel G and G one, uh if you look at having the waterway right along is not a good idea, you've got compensating storage on two other parcel on G one, maybe part of it could be shifted over to there. 'Cause you don't you don't want to have other big waterways where
Michael Hoover
So
Jack Mariano
F flying birds are gonna are gonna be there.
Mm-hmm.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Oh, just line it up m more to the edge or something? I don't know.
Jack Mariano
G you could slide over the the two yellow parts of the composite could probably take more. Maybe one could maybe there could be dry storage instead of wet. So I mean there's uh I'm sure with the applicant will address it now that we're talking about it.
Ron OakleyChair
Yeah.
So let's hear from the applicant.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Mr. Chairman of Lee we need to since we moved into zonings uh swear the uh parties. Yep. Do we want to do it individually or do for all the remainder three zonings all the process? So at this time uh any party who is wishing to provide testimony for any zoning matter coming up this afternoon. Please rise again for any zoting manner in addition to this one.
If you would please raise your right hand, do you and each of you swear or affirm the testimony you will give in these matters is the truth, so have you got it? Thank you. As you come forward to speak, please acknowledge for the record that you have been sworn.
Ron OakleyChair
Thank you. Okay, let's hear from the applicant now.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Good afternoon, Christy Barrera with Hype Design. I have been sworn in. Liam did a great job of summarizing the project, and I'm glad that the concept plan is still up because I know you guys have a lot of discussions on that. And we have worked very hard on this concept plan. Um, this project We met with the county over a year and a half ago. There was an airport moratorium. We're obviously adjacent to Pilot Country Airport, so that that slowed down the process quite a bit.
You all transmitted the transmitted the comp plan amendment to the state earlier this year. Last month we had the Planning Commission hearing. They unanimously voted to recommend approval of the zoning to you all this month. And in between all of that, we have continued to work with staff on this concept plan. The reason why it is not binding is because this is a mixed-use project and the applicant is not the developer. They will
be selling the project to a townhome builder, an apartment builder, and a retail builder. So they need to have those end user builders need to have some flexibility. So in the sub-area policies, there's language that says higher density needs to be along US 41 with lower density closer to the airport runway protection zone. In the MPUD conditions, there's two pages of conditions, and it like Liam said, it's condition number. Number
one that explain exactly what can go in each of these parcels. So we broke it up into multiple parcels so we could have specific uses, whether it be a residential use or a multifamily use, and then also specific design criteria. So in parcel A, we're showing retail adjacent to US 41 and also. That internal road, those buildings in parcel A are required to be pushed up to those roads.
So that's in the conditions. You'll also see along the eastern edge that there are some uh town homes or carriage homes that would also be along that internal road with the parking lot hidden by those buildings. So all of those are requirements. So though this plan isn't binding, there are very detailed requirements that just about make it binding. We also worked with staff to say Well,
if you know There's more interest in town homes than there is for apartments. We would like the opportunity to have less apartments and move some of those town homes over into parcel C. So in parcel B, we can have apartments and commercial or we can have just commercial along 41. In parcel C, we can have apartments or town homes. In parcel D, we can We can have townhomes or single family detached.
So we're limiting the product to two different types of product. And then also, like I was saying, in each parcel, there is language and the conditions that say those buildings must be up close to those internal streets. So that you have that linear park space, you have the buildings up front, you have a nice wall. Walkable area. We're showing you know a retention pond and a plaza, park space in parcel E. And so you can see that again
even though this is not binding, it's very close to what it's going to look like because there's not much wiggle room in those words.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Okay, well, Menace. Go ahead. Here's what makes me nervous. Those pink buildings that could be a car wash, McDonald's, it
Unidentified speakerVoice A
cannot be a car wash.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Okay.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
And it cannot be of um of
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
storage. It can be plop and drop with someone who wants a parking all around it instead of like that in a plaza. So it has to stay as a plaza.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
The buildings must be up against the roads with the parking lot hidden.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Okay, well that makes me feel better. Because I'm I just can't take What we've been doing. Um And I don't think anyone here would disagree with the ability to take the multifamily and put it into carriage homes, garden homes, single family, any of this going down.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
So there is a maximum of 350 apartment units. We are requesting a land use equivalence matrix, but you cannot accre increase the number of apartment units. You can only trade apartments for townhomes. homes, single family homes, or commercial square
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
footage. But I I I would I'm for me I would make it a condition that those rear loads, that's the minimum. that you have in your legend? You can't it's not twenty percent it's th that's the minimum right there. You've got town homes rear load eighty two, carriage homes rear load fifty two. So that's the minimum That you can have in there.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
And so the reason why we have a percentage in the conditions of approval twenty is
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
nothing
Unidentified speakerVoice A
is because if the number of townhomes increases or decreases, then those numbers on the legend would change and the percentages would change also. So we felt that a percentage mix was a better way to ensure that you would have a good amount of both types of products.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Yeah.
Seth Weightman
Mr.
Ron OakleyChair
Whiteman.
Seth Weightman
Y'all really want to bring this in for landing, don't you?
Unidentified speakerVoice A
We really do. We we have worked very hard with staff. They've done an excellent job. I think we've worked with everybody in the planning department. And I know that we have lots of expertise with all of you, so we we do want to get something built here very badly.
Seth Weightman
Yes. So uh uh and I very much appreciate everybody's your time and uh imaginess, but I'm good like I said with w I'm okay with towns, I'm okay with the commercial pieces, but the the multifamily I'll quote Commissioner Starkey is is a unicorn and when I look at the map You're literally right up against. the Rural Transition Area. It is Tall. It's high dense. It doesn't necessarily go with everything that's
been built to date and going on within the area if it was single family product. I'd be All for it. I just I'm like I've told you in all our means I'm gonna two thirds of what you have going on and I appreciate what's you know what the the creativity and the thought and the time you've put into this but I'm gonna have a hard time supporting any vertical multifamily with within this project. It's just it's too heavy in my opinion for This little nook.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
So our apartments are capped at three stories. Town homes and single family homes can be two stories, so it's only one story above the other product types. We were requesting
Seth Weightman
there's gotta be a line. Maybe two story
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
appointments.
Seth Weightman
And that's
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
There's
Seth Weightman
two
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
story apartments. They have them in in in Starkey brands. Some of them have garages.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Right, and so if we did the carriage home products, that would be a two story uh apartment. Um in this application in the conditions of approval we are proposing that if it was vertical mixed use like the pink building in the northeast corner that that particular building could be four stories along US 41. That road is planned to be widened. We feel like the height in the density along 41 is appropriate that we are a mile north
of State Road 52, three miles east of Angeline Ranch, and that you know other apartments have been approved in this area. And again, maximum 350 apartments. We did hear you and we have increased the opportunity for more commercial. So again, if apartments are you know going out of vote because folks can't get financing, then it might be commercial that goes here instead of apartments or there's less of that. Right now we
don't have a buyer or a builder, so we're trying to keep it a little bit more flexible. Again, if In the conditions it says that if the apartments go away if if more commercial is wanted, that parcel B, which is showing apartments currently, would mirror parcel A and those commercials would be commercial buildings would wrap US 41 in that internal east-west road. So we have provisions for
different options of either stepping down or or modifying the usage And it's only two options, right? So it's not like we can do anything anywhere. In each particular parcel, there's one or two options that you can have in that parcel. And we think that gives us a the little bit of flexibility that we're looking for to help market this site and actually get something built here rather than locking in this concept plan today and then coming back to you in six months
or a year with an actual builder that says, I don't I can't build this. This isn't in my portfolio. So that's why we're trying to meet in the middle here.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Yeah.
Ron OakleyChair
Yeah, I've I've got problems with the too much too many apartments in this area, so Just keeps growing and growing. But I've got her and I guess a lot of my Folks that know me it got heartburn because they're always calling me about this project. So they do not like the multifamily piece of this. In fact, I don't care for this kind of development like that with those apartments all out there next to the rural area. Um We
still need to be very careful what we do with our rural area and keep our area as rural as we can. This takes away from that I thought.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
And so I just note that this is the rural transition area, not the northeast Pasco area. There's
Ron OakleyChair
nothing about this project that looks transitional at all. It just goes right into maybe
Unidentified speakerVoice A
So north of us is a transition area. Our project is not in the rural area.
Ron OakleyChair
It's like gas that.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Correct.
So I do have two documents, if I could
Unidentified speakerVoice C
have two public hearing to do before you can get
Ron OakleyChair
But So I go back and do the first
Unidentified speakerVoice C
first step. So yes, so you've got it Too. Bring this into a li for a landing, as the commissioner said. Um, uh you're gonna have to have a public hearing on the comprehensive plan. And you're gonna have to have a public hearing on the zone. You can allow the folks to combine their times and speak to both, identifying which it is. Which you're
speaking to. Okay. That would be six minutes person.
Um or you can do the the comprehensive plan and then and then take a vote on that and then see and then go forward on the zoning and have another public hearing on that. But you've got it you've got two different an ordinance and uh
And the zoning resolution that you have to take public comment.
Jack Mariano
M
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Mr.
Jack Mariano
Jim? Yes. I I would like to have a couple of things addressed still with my question that I asked a little bit earlier. Yeah. Uh so along the runway with the water that's there, I was talking to the people that'll speak from the neighborhood. Um the long pond on parcel G is a big concern because ducks can Can get in there, geese can get in there causing issues. The parcel on the on the other side, more so along the runway than the rest of it, on the far uh east side, is another
concern as well. And then you've got the two compensating storage areas. Can they be set where those can be dry areas instead of wet and shift it over to the compensating areas where you pick up a little bit and maybe shift? and elsewhere.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
So I have two documents if I can submit them to the board.
Ron OakleyChair
You got a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Motion passed five zero.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
So the two documents that are being passed out were emailed to each of you last week. They're from our airport expert as well as our project engineer to discuss a little bit more about the ponds. This item also came up at Planning Commission last month. They are in the audience, and so they can answer your technical questions. But the compensating storage is a floodplain pond, and so that will be. Wet a proportion of the year in the in the wet season, it'll most likely be dry in the drier season.
But if you would like, Doug Saunders can come up and speak to the shape of the ponds and the guidelines for FAA. So again, we are not developing anything in the runway protection zone. And there are guidelines for the area just outside of the protection zone what types of ponds can go there, which shapes are better. We also have Boyan Pargov here as the engineer and he can explain the edges of the ponds. We're proposing to
have a four to one slope so that uh Birds I so that uh vegetation will not grow on the edges and therefore birds would be less likely to want to land and be by that water vegetation. But they can come up to answer your questions.
Jack Mariano
Okay. Let me go to another question. So as Commissioner Starkey said, looking at this map, is that does that show eighty-two real loaded townhomes? Mm-hmm. In the dark brown?
The legend says it does.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Uh yes.
Jack Mariano
So but in the dun in the conditions you've got twenty percent. Is that number the same or is it gonna be higher or lower if it's twenty percent?
Unidentified speakerVoice A
So the requirement is twenty percent rearloaded. Whether we do a hundred and sixty townhomes or if we use the loom and do three hundred townhomes, the requirement is twenty percent of the total townhomes would need to be rearloaded.
Jack Mariano
Okay. So it could be Could be l a lot less than what this shows right here. How low could that number go?
Unidentified speakerVoice A
So a hundred and sixty is currently the proposed number of townhomes. So twenty percent of that would be thirty-two townhomes.
Jack Mariano
Okay. So you're you're looking from the map we're looking at you're cutting over fifty percent, probably sixty percent of what is shown here to what we w wanted to end up.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
And so the important thing is we're showing linear parks and trails throughout here and there's a requirement in those conditions to keep those park spaces and we talk about pedestrian connectivity and the reason why we have these townhomes here is to make those parks work. So I don't think a builder would stop at 32 if it didn't make sense in their plan. So here we were showing all of these internal because that's how the road network worked out.
Jack Mariano
Okay. But again it's it's a very big concern as we if we heard from us to sort of see it get cut in a portion the way it's written and we try to work with you as far as giving you the matrix compared to the concept plan but I think it's too big of a drop. Other question for you. On the ca on the uh multifamily, on your design here it shows two hundred and eighty units in play, but you want the flexibility to go to three fifty. Why would you put that number up so much higher when you know we're trying to keep it limited?
Unidentified speakerVoice A
So the two hundred and ninety-eight multifamily units In Pasco County language, multifamily also, it includes apartments and these carriage homes. So we have we're showing 52 carriage homes. So those two number numbers combined is 350. And a carriage home is basically a garage with a apartment unit on top of it. So like Commissioner Starkey said, those would most likely be two stories. and would transition from the three story apartments,
two story carriage homes, two story town homes. And so you're stepping down as you get closer to the project boundary.
Jack Mariano
I'm having trouble finding the matrix I had earlier, but So if if you had sent if we set the matrix up Um And use two hundred ninety eight for multifamily, separate the carriage homes for fifty two is not a problem.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
So again we don't have an apartment builder. We don't know if that builder has a keratome product that they would want to use. So trying to keep that flexibility for that user.
Jack Mariano
I mean you hear you're hearing density problems at this point.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Yes.
Jack Mariano
Speculative. Okay,
Ron OakleyChair
Mr. Whiteman.
Seth Weightman
I didn't have my hand raised
Ron OakleyChair
too well. I think I thought I was pencil like that.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Well um you can see you can see we're having some angst here and I know you've worked very hard on this. So I'm gonna throw up some ideas and see if it sticks with my fellow board members looking at that legend. I can't I d I don't have the conditions of the pool on here, so I just have pretty pictures. Um that maybe mean nothing. Um I would I'm gonna throw out there that if you guys want to see less in the multifamily that you you find a
number. When I did the math, it was forty-two units per building. So maybe You know. maybe think of a n a a lower number that would be agreeable to you guys. Um And I would say, or you could go down. But you can't you I'm gonna hold you to that legend. I mean No no no less than that legend that you're telling us here on everything
else.
Unidentified speakerVoice D
Can you repeat explain the no less like Well y you and that do you say how many towns do you say there are total? I believe well I think the legend shows uh
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
I know the legend shows one fifty two.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Correct.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
What what did you say you're I guess I'm we're
Unidentified speakerVoice A
proposing a hundred and sixty as the
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
So if you have a hundred and sixty tan homes and you say twenty percent, only twenty cent percent have have to be reloaded that's thirty two. No, but and here you're showing eighty two. I want eighty two. I don't want thirty two. Um, so carriage homes rear loaded, fifty-two. I don't want any less than fifty-two in here. I I don't want to see and I throw the pictures up there you can see what we've been building what sadly more is coming. Um I don't wanna see our county filled
with with product that looks like that. It's just not That's not good for us. It's not good for our citizens, so Um we worked really hard to get a good plan and I'm I'm very disappointed to hear that that all that time that I spent with you could mean mean nothing. So I It bothers me.
Seth Weightman
Chairman M to com or County Attorney. Thank you, Chairman. So Commissioner Starkey's saying but the definition
of the product of what we're approving It could be more vertical apartments? No.
By our by our Verbiage, right? County Attorney with what is being presented here. They're pitching different multifamily options, but it could be all of one type or one of all of another based on our county's Terms.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
The conditions of approval limit them to cer to a certain extent. Certain percentage. I'm going to let Liam deal with that versus but the conditions of approval set parameters
So they can't But they do have a loom, which means that they can shift things back and forth within those parameters. So I can't tell you without doing a lot of math, what what they could shift everything to. I I understand what the question you're asking, but they've got sort of a this is a hybrid that they it's as they've said it's conceptual
but it's not conceptual because there are parameters in the conditions of approval. Um that May not get the board what it's looking for. Yeah. Um. But it's They can't shift everything into multifamily if that's the concern.
Liam Devine
Commissioner Weightman. Liam Divine, Planning, Development, and Economic Roth. Um so I I just I want to be clear on your question. I think your question was can they use the loom to convert for more apartments? That that's no, they can't. Their max is three fifty. Wait, they can't.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
But they're not showing three fifty on here. They're showing two ninety-four.
Liam Devine
I I understand that, but I the way I understood the question was could they convert some more More apartment units, the the answer is no, using the live.
Seth Weightman
So with the
Liam Devine
What you call 'em garden style? So so garden style um is included in that three fifty. So th we consider those apartments. So garden style w which is
Seth Weightman
So how much can those so what's the the the lowest number of those that they could ha that they could transition? So what'd you say, fifty two of those? How low can you
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
go?
Seth Weightman
How low can you
Liam Devine
go? Oh no. So so we can we count garden um Carriage homes, sorry. Carriage homes exactly like an apartment dwelling unit. Right. They are they are the same. By definition, you can see the carriage home because uh essentially they're basically um usually what happens and I live in an apartment complex and I have carriage homes in my apartment complex, there are garages on the first floor. There's usually four garages
that get rent rented out to individuals and then there are Are one couple apartments above it. So essentially it's working as a a two-story apartment building. Um although it's a much smaller building, um, it it operates as that. So essentially if your concern is could they have 350 um Carriage homes, they they could because we consider those apartment units, apartment dwelling units.
Seth Weightman
But they could go. to twenty five kerroits homes and increase their Other rental by the opposite of that, based on a loom. Yes or no?
Liam Devine
Mm.
Seth Weightman
When you're fluctuating around, you have fifty-two of what you're describing, so if they d dilute that and they only build half of 'em because they're they're trading product type, you could increase the other style of multifamily. Correct. Is that making sense?
Liam Devine
Yeah.
Yes, but I wouldn't.
Seth Weightman
Make me sound smarter than what I am, of course.
Liam Devine
But but what I I would just add to that I would just add there's still a maximum of three fifty apartment dwelling units no matter no matter what. There's a condition that limits to three fifty no matter what. They can't go higher than that.
Seth Weightman
Okay.
So it's cat open.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
So we wanted to show the carriage homes as another option to make sure that it was in the concept plan so that an apartment builder clearly had the option to have those type of units. But what Liam and I agree on, I think to answer your question, is that no matter what the style of multifamily, whether it's three-story apartments, the carriage homes, a two-story apartment, the maximum number of those units is 350 units.
Jack Mariano
Say that again.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
So so a multifamily, which would be apartments, and we're pr we're requesting three-story apartments unless the first floor has retailer office and then it would be four stories along US 41. So that type of apartment or a carriage home or if someone wanted to do a two-story apartment like you were suggesting, Commissioner Starkey, any of those units, the most number of units we could have with all of that combined is 350.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Well I have a question for you on your carrot homes. Okay. If if if what you're c calling a carriage home is a garage with the unit above it, how is that Different than a town hall.
Someone educating you. It's it's
Unidentified speakerVoice A
combined and they're rented out potentially to different individuals. So the garage could be rented to someone that has an apartment somewhere else in the development. And a different person could be renting the residential portion
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
of that. As far as the aesthetics from the street, is that gonna be four garages in a row? I mean I'm looking at the carriage houses at Starkey and you don't see that at all. So I don't know what your carriage houses. I mean, is that potentially what it could be just look like four townhomes, but they're rented? So what we're
Unidentified speakerVoice A
proposing is those garage entrances would be internal to that m apartment parking lot. So when you're on the street, you wouldn't see those garages. You would enter the garages from that local Larger parking lot space.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
But really it looks very much like a town home. Yes. Correct.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
I would think so.
Ron OakleyChair
So somebody could have the rent that for their car.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Yes.
Ron OakleyChair
But not necessarily be renting the apartment above.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
That is correct. In some instances. In some instances they may rent the garage and the residential portion together. But they would have that option and it would be under the apartment builder. That's in your building?
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Liam, that's what it's like where you live. I think the preserve
Liam Devine
has some of those. Lehman Divine, yes. Um that that is correct. In in my apartment complex they actually have buildings that are just dedicated garages elsewhere and then they have um the gar uh the carriage home styles and it gets rented out to whoever rents it. It's an additional fee. in your your lease then you can pick and choose where you want your garage on the property.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
I don't really see the difference between an apartment and a carriage house. Just that instead of an apartment you've got a garage.
Ron OakleyChair
Yeah. But the person living in an apartment, not necessarily
Jack Mariano
the person
Ron OakleyChair
renting a
Jack Mariano
garage. Mr. Mary. So it could just be the the height on the carriage on a little bit lower.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
What what was the height allowed?
Jack Mariano
So outside three story? So carry on with one story to the same
Unidentified speakerVoice E
with
Jack Mariano
the core. So about the same matter anyway.
Unidentified speakerVoice E
I'm I'm s I'm sorry, Commissioner, I didn't mean to cut you up. Okay. Um I'm Mark Wilkie on the uh represent the applicant on the carriage homes. Were you sworn, did you I I stood up and said I did, yeah. Thank you. Okay. Um On the carriage homes, uh there's typically no living area on the first floor, it's a garage. Now there the two end units may have accep access to the one bedroom apartment above it, and then we may have a stack of twos where they have no garage where they don't have
access to the garage. So that's the ba that's the difference between a carriage home and a regular townhouse that's always gonna have probably a garage and then a small living area and then stairs up to the the second floor. There will always be a a carriage home. It will have a garage on the first floor. And as far as aesthetics go, um you know that's gonna be those are rear loaded so they'll come in from the parking lot. And then on the front we'll you
know we'll have the they're gonna They have to match the multifamily buildings are somewhat similar to all of that. And and again if Commissioner Oakley, I know we've a talked about density, if there's an apartment number that you guys are willing to accept so we can move this thing along after a lot of work. And Commissioner Starkey said I'm sorry we disappointed you but two weeks ago at the planning commissioner meeting you liked it. So I'm not sure. Well I thought it was binding.
I do like that. Uh well okay. But
now you're telling me that's not what Gina, I just sent you two uh
We really need to communicate that you know we don't have a lot of Blue Room and the only thing that's gonna change this um would be uh you know we're not far enough along in the design to understand you know the technical reasons for I don't know how big the rate we have an idea of how big the retention plots but that may change the one on the north that may be that may not work and all this stuff has to get moved around but we can only get move it around in the within those parcels. We've got I mean these conditions of approval if you haven't
had the opportunity. These things are there's about eighty-five of them. And we're not we can't go in there And just start moving stuff around and plus the other check is staff who was gonna go, that's a material change And it's not really we don't consider it technical, you're gonna have to go back to the board to get approval.
Yeah.
So there's a big there's a big check there. with your staff and they've been And I'm not saying they've been uncooperative or difficult. We've we've spent a lot of time on this. So Oh, I
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
agree. That's why I'm saying
Unidentified speakerVoice E
I
mean
we've been working very much.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
I was okay to go with the legend as a condition of approval. And the layout concept. But my fellow commissioners want less density. Well and the other point and uh and I want to show you an email Oh it's not Gina. Well Christina. Okay. That's
Unidentified speakerVoice E
Tony. And and uh Boyan Christy from Hype will tell you that that spine road there, the one that goes east-west, that really can't change or move much based on wetlands and distances to entrances to the south. So I mean there's like I said, we're not this is really close and you're gonna see something very similar that you might see the multifamily buildings moved around but continue to be transitioned to the lower density area as well as covering
up the parking lots like we've been asked to do.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
So if you don't mind, this is a carriage house in Starkey Ranch? It's um but and can you I think there's four units in there and I I just sent two pictures. Um there's another one another email.
Unidentified speakerVoice E
And I don't know what's on the other side, but it looks like
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
it looks like the parking side. This is the interior of the parking lot. And that's the s two street corners. Right. So that is not a row of four units with all garages on the b you said no living on the bottom, but there's clearly living on the bottom in a carriage house. So I that's why I'm trying I've never really asked for the definition of a carriage house. Well
Unidentified speakerVoice E
it's
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
I thought that's what a carriage
Unidentified speakerVoice E
house is
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
I
Unidentified speakerVoice E
i if you want to s
if
you want to specify or make another condition of approval that we have to have living area or we have to we have to break that up somehow architecturally, no problem. We can figure that out.
Unidentified speakerVoice F
Yeah.
Seth Weightman
Thank you, Chair.
All right.
I got Jack. Oh, I'm sorry.
Ron OakleyChair
Jack, you had a question? No. You're okay? All right. Go ahead, Mr. White.
Seth Weightman
Thank you. Well you referenced Mark. Our conversation I'm glad to hear that you put a lot of effort into Commissioner Starkey's points and not in mine.
Unidentified speakerVoice E
Got him.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
I went to the planning commission.
Unidentified speakerVoice E
And I appreciate no I appreciate that. There's a lot of you in there.
Seth Weightman
Uh again, two thirds, you know, I like the commercial aspect of it. I'm okay with the towns. Yeah.
Unidentified speakerVoice G
Yeah.
Seth Weightman
I'm not gonna do the math for you. I was pretty clear when we met what I was hoping to see, would like to see Now we know. Kind of the lay of the land here.
Unidentified speakerVoice E
Right.
Seth Weightman
You kind of see what we want. What are you willing
Unidentified speakerVoice E
to do? Is there is there a number of mo uh
Seth Weightman
I don't want multifamily period.
Unidentified speakerVoice E
Well I I mean
Seth Weightman
I like the towns which could be considered that, but I don't want to see my preference bumping up against this transition period. This is high dense product next to product that's very different than what this is.
Unidentified speakerVoice E
If I if I went to th if I went to three hundred multifamily, because that's a
I
Seth Weightman
told
you
we went through
the carriage.
No, we went through this in our meetings. Respectfully no. I'd like to see either you got a town home product or single family home product, commercial fronts along 41 That's my opinion. I don't know what the other four are.
Unidentified speakerVoice E
I mean I remember
Seth Weightman
recall completely
Unidentified speakerVoice E
eliminating multifamily. As a matter of fact, I remember our discussions are going, I'm not against multifamily. I just don't want to. Well I see
Seth Weightman
the tea leaves now. It's not like, you know, we're horse trading in these meetings, right? I don't like this. Two thirds of it I'm there and that's I've been very consistent. in my talking points on this. So I mean that this is this is on y'all. It's not on me to do your math and make your decision for you. Yeah.
Unidentified speakerVoice E
Uh okay. Oh yeah.
Ron OakleyChair
I think we need to move to uh move over to the public. Let's hear from the public. And this is a public meeting and What we're going to do is if you're as Is anyone signed up at all?
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
No one signed up specifically for the B
Ron OakleyChair
fifty.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
P fifty. Everyone's under fifty-eight.
Ron OakleyChair
Okay. And everybody's sign up for TA. So we're gonna do we're gonna hear from the public on both, but when you come to that Podium. State your name and that you and your address and that you've been sworn. and speak to, if you say you're here to speak on 58, then speak to 58. And then sit down and we'll take you in order the way they're signed up.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Yeah, and if you have comments on both, just say I've got comments on the comprehensive plan. Right comments on the zoning.
Ron OakleyChair
Yeah. Just say that when you come to speak. If you w wanna speak toward both, you can at that same time.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Okay. So the first that signed up in advance Roberto Garcia.
Unidentified speakerVoice H
My name is Roberto Garcia. I live at [address removed]. I have lived there since 78. And I wasn't confused until I got here and start listening to you guys.
Ron OakleyChair
Have you were
Unidentified speakerVoice H
you sworn that you're not sure?
Ron OakleyChair
Okay. So
Unidentified speakerVoice H
for sure. Go ahead. Um A couple of items, uh Uh first of all, I'd like to explain to you all the ownership of that whole area.
Ron OakleyChair
You don't have so much time, so
Unidentified speakerVoice H
I understand, but
Ron OakleyChair
I have
Unidentified speakerVoice H
nine people behind me that probably gonna repeat me. So It's poly country state. It's divided into three parts. There's the airport, there's an ordinance for the airport. And there's Palo County Drive, which all the home lots on that road are the owners. And Divulate. That's owned by the HOA. So the biggest problem we have The first problem we have. is a situation with a gate. That gate right there, the access gate. We
don't want that gate. We're not going to allow any cars coming up and down there. We have enough problems with general traffic. People that come into the neighborhood are not uninvited, go and take pictures of airplanes and all that. So that gate right there. The contractor can save us money. We don't want it. We don't need it.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Well, sir, if there's a restaurant in there or something that you want to visit And you this way you can walk there or whatever without having to get out on forty one. So I I don't is that a pedestrian gate? And I think that's f for your neighborhood. I I
Ron OakleyChair
understand Commissioner, this is a public hearing. You're taking up his time.
Unidentified speakerVoice H
All
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
right.
Unidentified speakerVoice H
Good. The problem is that that road Uh is used by airplanes. And airplanes don't have any reverse line. So how are you going to back up if you've got people coming and going through there? So the answer that we have is no. Okay. That's right. That's it. Let's take a time, right?
Ron OakleyChair
You still got time.
Unidentified speakerVoice H
Okay. The second item that we want to talk to you about is a letter that you were supposed to give to all the people that buy property around there. And I've got a copy here that I can give it to you all. that you're supposed to give it to the owners of the property that are going to buy some of those residents in there. that there is a runway next door that's been operating for forty-four years. Three hundred and sixty-five days, twenty-four hours a day, and it makes noise. And you're supposed to sign that. This came to my attention when some of
the neighbors on the neighborhood across the way on 41 came complaining to us and we asked them, didn't you sign this piece of paper? And the answer was no. Somebody forgot to give them this piece of paper. And that's to protect us and them as well. So I have the whole thing in here if you f somebody wants a copy of it. Mm-hmm. Receive and file?
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Second.
Ron OakleyChair
Got a motion and second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Motion passed four zero.
Thanks, sir.
Unidentified speakerVoice H
Alright. So some of the f fellows are coming behind me are gonna cover the rest of the stuff so we'll bore you to death. So I'll step down for that.
Jack Mariano
Uh Robert, do you wanna talk about the ponds? The ponds. Did you wanna talk about the ponds?
Unidentified speakerVoice H
Alright. I'm a pilot. I fly everyone all the time. I've hit an airplane. I I with my airplane I hit a bird, a basket uh hidden lakes. It made a big mess on my wing. And that's because they had ponds from both sides so that Uh the wrong way over there. When the the birds pick up a a fish and they'll eat it in the on the side of the of the runway and you come in through there and you make noise. They start flying, and what happens?
They go up, and that's when the head comes in. So those two items right there: the one on the left and the one on the right-you've got to get them out of there. It's not too bad today. But if that runway ever gets extended and you got bigger airplanes, And crashing those bigger airlines into that subdivision is going to create a lot of problems. And it does happen. Look at the news. Every week you see a bird taken off of somewhere. Okay? Okay. Yeah, thanks.
Ron OakleyChair
Tom Cooper. Thank you, sir.
Jack Mariano
Mr. Chairman Mariano. Yes. What we're waiting, Mike? Can you have um staff make a copy of that for all of us, that letter? Thanks.
Ron OakleyChair
Okay, state your name and address and if you've
Tom Cooper
been sworn in. Good afternoon. Uh my name is Tom Cooper. I have been sworn in. Uh I've been a uh count. My address is uh [address removed]. I've been a Pasco uh County resident for the last three years. Uh I live in Pilot Country Estates at Pilot Country Airport. I own a private aircraft. I fly regularly in and out of the airport. I've been flying since uh 1979. I have over 45 years of experience flying many
different types of airplane, civilian, military, and commercial. I've logged over seventeen thousand hours so far. Uh I was previously a a pilot of the United States Air Force, uh 28 years military service flying all kinds of different airplanes. While in the Air Force, I worked as an airfield manager. I worked as a wing safety officer. Um
I have experience on many different uh busy military airfields, many different kinds of airplane safety investigations and aircraft safety programs. I'm currently an airline captain with the U.S. Major Airline. I fly domestic and internationally all around the world. Uh I go in and out of all kinds of airports. Uh I've been employed with the airline for over twenty four years. I am also the uh elected one of the elected representatives of Pilot Country
Estates Homeowners Association. We are located around the runway of Pilot Country Airport. The Pilot Country HOA represents 65 lots, 55 separate lot owners, and over 100 residents at the airport. As the president of the Pilot Country States HOA, I represent the majority voice of all of the owners, property owners here at Pilot Country Airport. I've given you a big a
brief background of my experience and qualifications, not to impress you, but I want to impress upon you the depth and experience that I'm trying to present to you today.
Uh first of all I'd like to address the uh timely notification of uh Fletcher MUD development to the residents of uh Pilot Country Estates. I uh personally only received a notice uh on 1 August of this year, which didn't give me enough time to prepare for our previous meetings. Uh most of my residents in the uh HOA have the same problem. Uh secondly, I have a couple of different concerns with the rezoning to the area north of an active public use airport
from agricultural to residential, specifically using a reference from the Land Development Code for Pasco County, Chapter 600, Section 605, which says the intent and purpose is to establish reasonable airport protection zoning regulations and implement the requirements of federal law and compatibility with airports in the county to protect public health, safety, welfare in the vicinity of the airport and minimize hazards. By rezoning to the north,
I think we're going to create more hazards than than we help at uh Pilot Country Airport. And Yeah.
Jack Mariano
Madam Vice Chairman Mariano. You wanna give an ex wanna give an extra three minutes because he's speaking to two items?
Tom Cooper
Yeah. I'm sorry.
Okay. I'm I'm almost finished. So by rezoning the areas to the north of Pilot Country Airport, we may unknowingly create hazards to the future residents and to the pilots operating in and out of the airport. Third, I have also been advised by several residents of our HOA that there are a few problems with the developer site plan for this development. Specifically, some of those have been addressed. Adding water retention ponds off the end of the runway of an active runway, which
may attract migratory waterfowl. As well as a gated access onto a private road, which is owned by the residents in our HOA has not been authorized or consulted with any of our residents. Uh fourth, as professional pilots and uh airport residents of Pilot Country HOA, uh we would all like to formally uh be invited and have representation at all future development planning meetings and any other uh rezoning adjacent to our
airport, and hopefully we can avoid and mitigate all these conflicts in the future. And I have my statement and a statement from uh one of my uh HOA residents just
Ron OakleyChair
Move received and five. Second. Got a motion second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Pass five zero. Thank you.
And my my office will reach out to you and we'll be contacting you about the issues. You're in my district. Thank you very
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
much. All right, thank you. See Michael Hoover.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
This is your your district?
Ron OakleyChair
Yeah. I go all the way to 41. Huh? A huge district.
Largest land mass largest landmass pastor county. I'm not gonna say it's twice as much area in the whole county, but Just Y'all get tired of me saying it. Name and address and if you've been sworn.
Michael Hoover
I have been sworn. My name is Michael Hoover. I live at [address removed]. And thank you all for giving me the courtesy of your time this afternoon. I'm kind of sorry to hear how much work has gone into that plat with a couple of fundamental. Errors that they would have uncovered had they understood that Pilot
Country Airport is not a single entity. It's actually three entities. They are the airport, the homeowners association, and the owners of Pilot Country Drive, of which I am one.
The uh staff has apparently spoken with the owner's representative, Stuart uh Spencer Bass. The owner is a Mark Walhoffen who does indeed have a home there, but it's not his primary residence. He has many other homes, including a new multi-million dollar one he's building in North Carolina at this time. Yeah. The airport owner's sole desire is maximizing
his return on investment. the desire of members of the Homeowners Association and all of the residents is to have a functioning airport community with a functional airport. That will not be the case if this development goes as it's shown at this moment. It's been discussed several times about waterfowl off the end of the runway. We
did have a neighbor impact Sand Hill cranes not too very long ago. Fortunately he's a multi-thousand-hour pilot who managed to return safely without any significant damage to personnel, but with tens of thousands of dollars of damage was airport. Fair point. Were there those single family town homes, carriage homes, whatever you want to call them, off to the left, it may not have been quite
as successful as it was.
Ron OakleyChair
You still have a minute.
Michael Hoover
I'm just gonna recap quickly. The entities that consist together of Pilot Country Airport are the Homeowners Association, which owns driver land. That's the taxiway and street to the west. I'm sorry to the east. Pilot Country Drive Owners, which are the owners of the individual lots on that street, the Homeowners Association, which does a very good job of direct presenting
us and kudos to Tom Cooper, and the airport itself. The staff needs to consult with the Homeowners Association, not your they do not always represent our own members. And I thank you for your time.
Ron OakleyChair
Thank you. Paul Prince.
Paul Prince
My name is Paul Prince. I live at [address removed]. Uh have been sworn. Okay. I think one of Pasco County's slogans is Open Spaces and Vibrant Places. I think you're going to have to post a sign at the beginning of that subdivision that says tight spaces and vibrating places because especially the people on parcel D are going to really hate the
airplane's noise that is going to be taken off and landing right next to them. Parcel D's, definitely a bad idea. The two retention ponds, another bad idea. Um you're going to be displacing gopher tortoises. And there's cows, we like the cows that are there now. We have a good time with the cows. Um just all around bad idea to uh allow this to go forth. I think a commercial
development would be uh much more acceptable, less loss of life if some accident were to occur. And um We are a separate entity from the airport. The airport owner uh does not speak for us. Sometimes he does, but we are separate, the Homeowners Association And the property owners are separate from the airport itself. So we'd like to uh be included in any future planning. Thank you for your time.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Can I ask a question about that? Can I ask a question? Okay, well I'm gonna ask them questions, they'll come up one by one. Okay. However you want me to do it. Okay. Are there any two houses two story houses in Pilot County?
Paul Prince
Yes. Um how they're not in line with the runway.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Okay, and how close are these houses here to on the runway to the runway?
Paul Prince
Uh there's
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
two
Paul Prince
stories. There are some two stories on the runway.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Okay, well you know I'm ha I'm I'm I'm having a little spiritual. It's okay for you guys to live there but not anyone else to live there. Not even near the runway.
Paul Prince
And in the takeoff and landing zone. Because we're getting complaints now of people flying too low over the houses in Talavera. And we're getting noise complaints from them. I spoke to the airport manager this morning and we we still receive those.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Well, you know people can complain. That doesn't mean that something's gonna change because they're gonna be able to do that. Well they didn't get the
Paul Prince
letter. My son was a Calavera resident until he bailed out. And
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
I wouldn't live in that town hall right near the airport. But I but I just, you know, there's two story houses closer to the runway than the town houses are to the runway. Um and I ha hey, I have two Air Force pilots in my family. Uh so I
Paul Prince
Okay. I think there's a big difference between living beside the runway and living in the takeoff zone. And the downwind
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
uh Yeah. I mean I I don't know what the right answer is, but I just see a little contradiction here.
Ron OakleyChair
Thank you, sir. Thank you. Yes, sir. Rick Warner.
Rick Warner
Thank you, uh County Commissioner and Commissioners. Uh my name is Rick Warner. I've been this morning and I do swear also so. Uh
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
your address, sir. Your address.
Rick Warner
Oh, I'm sorry. Uh [address removed]. Uh I live on the actual runway and the commissioners some people have brought up to points today that really need to be considered and for those reasons we'd ask that we make the changes. To my understanding, the developer has never contacted the homeowners association or worked with us at all, which I think uh would be a good idea. We're not against development, we're into safety. I'm a former air track traffic controller and what you've created there's
what's called a kill zone. you cannot have that high density that close to the runway. y you're gonna cause an accident. I mean can you imagine nowadays a 12-year-old out there with a 200 mile an hour drone what that would do for an airplane coming into land. What a lot of people that aren't pilots don't understand is takeoff and landing, as Mr. Prince was pointing out, that's the most dangerous part of flying. So you have somebody overshoot that runway and you're going right into the high density area. This is really not compatible
with the area. We're all in favor of development, but we're asking that the parcel G, uh parcel uh G1, the the G area to the left. With that retention pond and D has to be reworked. I mean it's just a serious safety issue. Thank you. All right,
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
thank you. Mark Buddha.
Ron OakleyChair
Name and address and if you've been sworn. Okay,
Unidentified speakerVoice I
it's uh I've been sworn and it's uh [address removed]. Okay, got it. Which is that pile of country on the uh on the east side.
Two thousand. And uh
Robert Garcia already entered into the letter that I got originally. Plug in about statutes uh three three three and the uh
Unidentified speakerVoice J
I'm sorry, it's really hard to keep it.
Unidentified speakerVoice I
Whoops. Uh Robert Garcia already entered into that that letter when he first came up. One thing that I wanted to uh just point out to you, and I got a picture on my phone, if I can just come up there and show it to you. the effect of a bird strike that happened to me two years ago at Isle Country.
Ron OakleyChair
You're a flyer. You fly.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
You you can't do that, sir.
Ron OakleyChair
You can't do that.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
You can't put it in the we can't put it into the record. Unless we take your phone. Maybe
Unidentified speakerVoice I
I
Unidentified speakerVoice C
can uh
Unidentified speakerVoice I
maybe I can just
available. You can w you can put your phone where you can tell it. I don't like that.
Ron OakleyChair
We'll we'll give your phone back to you.
Go ahead with your statement if you will.
Unidentified speakerVoice I
So that uh Well there we go. That did about 30 grand damage to that airplane. If that had been moved over just a little bit to that air intake, that airplane would have gone down. So just think about taking off the airport. and six inches over taking that air intake out. With the the force of that impact. That impact was a a force of approximately with a it was a buzzard. Probably about six pound six thousand pounds of force. that
went into that aircraft. I was lucky that I was able to get back. Now, if that had brought down that aircraft on the takeoff... With th those uh
Ron OakleyChair
Could go on those homes.
Unidentified speakerVoice I
Those homes on the end of the runway? There's nothing Pilot could really do about that. You know, he might be able to avoid it, he might not. So That's that's a problem with that kind of density that close to the equals. Okay. So that's really the the additional point in the in addition to my letter that's already been invented. But uh, you know, this this type of thing can happen and I've been
flying for over forty years. And that's the only time that ever happened to me, so it's not that frequent. But in Florida What's the uh Bird activity. It's uh much more prevalent than it ever has been.
So that's really all I got to add and I've already done. Okay.
Ron OakleyChair
Okay.
Unidentified speakerVoice I
Thank
Ron OakleyChair
you. All right. Thank you for your comments.
Jack Mariano
And a hymnness. I should call Web Rings.
Emma Hemnis
Good afternoon. I've been sworn. My name is Emma Hemnis. I'm of Hemness Faller Law at 309 North Parsons Avenue in Brandon, Florida. I'm here predominantly as a flight enthusiast and a recent visitor to pilot country estates. It was kind of interesting one of the first times I drove out there and I don't know if you get the full picture because it's not in the development plan, not in the concept. But the actual roadways
are the taxiways. And so there's nothing quite as scary as you thinking you're in a pretty big car and you see this playing taxiing Doorju, you're not gonna get in a a um a a matchup chicken with with this. So the reason why I'm bringing that up is because that gated access, there's not been a whole lot of attention. Paid to that particular topic in this conceptual plan. I keep hearing this e this this afternoon
about the conceptual plan is it's binding, but it's not binding, but it might be binding if there's certain restrictions. So the concern is is From the August eighth video and getting a transcript from that is A lot of the uh aspects of this, the the residents in the community were not included. They weren't included in the development. And I can see how there's so much work that's gone into this. But I
was I heard in the August 8th video presentation, you hear staffers from the Planning Commission saying, Well, we've included everybody, we've had numerous meetings, and unfortunately. the pilot country residents they get they show up for the very first meeting on August eighth and they're kind of in the dark. They haven't had any input in this and they're actually private property owners that will be impacted by anyone coming in and out of that community, particularly the gated access. And if everybody
believes that the gated access is only going to be like a one way street. That's not going to happen with that level of density. Someone's going to find a way to come on that taxiway and they're going to have that look and play chicken just like I did the other day with you know thinking you're in a vehicle but you've got to give way to those airplanes because that's an active taxiway. But again, I think more importantly than anything, there is a community here. They want to work with everyone. They want to Be included, they want
to work with the developer, they want to work with your staffers, and I would just recommend that this not go through today. Just so that these other aspects can be worked out for the safety of the community.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Christopher Buell.
Unidentified speakerVoice K
Thanks so much. Christopher Buell, I'm a resident at [address removed]. I have been sworn in. Um I'm kinda at the end of the list of the residents that have spoken so far, so they've basically summarized all the points that that I would have uh brought myself or they gate the uh water foul in the lakes, the noise, the liability and things like that. The one thing I really wanted to highlight uh that Tom brought up and and Emma just summarized as well is um a means of us being notified. I the HOA would be an
easier way of doing that for not only this, but anything going forward of future zoning issues, just like Emma said, so that we could be involved with the process going forward. Um my wife was one of the two people that did the majority of the speaking I think from um from the resident standpoint at last month's meeting uh while I was out of town and it was kind of a scramble because they knew about it about two days before. So uh if I could highlight one thing, um it's that there's uh a means of us being
at least notified so that we can be a part of the process and uh be aware of these meetings so that we can participate as well. But thanks for everybody's time. Okay.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Thank you. Mr. Chairman Mariano that is present. Um we do have one online also.
Ron OakleyChair
Is there anyone in our room that a gentleman can come speak?
Oh, if you've already spoke you cannot come up, sir.
Michael Hoover
I can't. Yeah, look what
Ron OakleyChair
No. No. Sorry.
Paul Prince
I didn't I like it also. Uh
Ron OakleyChair
yes sir. If you hadn't signed up,
Jack Mariano
you can come forward and speak. Mr. Chairman. Yes. Being we're doing this for it's two public hearing at one time, if you only spoke for three minutes, couldn't we give him a little extra time if you want to make another another point?
Cause you're doing item fifty and fifty eight.
Ron OakleyChair
Well
Jack Mariano
no one's no one signed uh
Ron OakleyChair
for fifty. There's no one that signed us WebEx either.
We have one, but it it'll be coming up. Actually two. WebX is after those that are here. Okay, yes sir. Name and address and if you've been through.
Unidentified speakerVoice F
Uh my name is Dennis Hurkenstein, I live at [address removed]. I haven't been sworn.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
If you would please raise your hand. Do you swear that any testimony you will give in this matter is the truth? So have you got it? I do.
Unidentified speakerVoice F
Okay. I wanted to address the point that was uh brought up about you know multi-story houses being on the airport itself and then not seeing the difference between houses there at the end. The issue is that this is an uncontrolled field. We fly a pattern around that airport that's dictated by the FAA. The traffic pattern is a left-hand pattern, so anything departing to the north on 3-6 there makes a left-hand turn directly over top of that development. You will be at
a couple hundred foot above those houses when you're making that left-hand turn during downwind, which is basically on 41 or just a little bit to the west of 41. That's the major issue with protecting that zone. So having that high density there Like he says, that's the most critical time is on climb out that you can experience an engine failure. At that point, there is no turning around and coming back to the airport. The only thing you can hope
for is to continue straight and to make an emergency landing somewhere straight in front of you. And as somebody that has survived an airpl an airplane crash, I can tell you it's very real. And They typically end in a fire. And you're talking about burning down several units now if you have them all tied together there. So I'm not opposed to any kind of development. other than high density. If you wanna do some commercial warehouse space, that sort of thing, it's gonna be more compatible with the activity that's going around
there. Like they said, Pasco County Sheriff uses that runway on almost a weekly basis for training. That's a lot of noise generated by helicopters. The Air National Guard comes by there in Black Hawk sometimes as late as ten o'clock at night and hovers and lands in the middle of that runway at night. practicing coming and going. So We at the airport accept that as part of living there. Most of us actually enjoy the traffic and want to see the activity. These people that are going to be unsuspecting that are going to move into this subdivision that nobody's
going to probably notify them that it's there, by the time they invest their life savings into a structure, now they're stuck. So I would really like to see the zoning be changed to something that's more compatible with the current use. Our density is one house per acre. The houses to the east of us are higher than that. So a lower density would be much better suited for this this area here. Thank you.
Ron OakleyChair
Thanks, sir. So that's everybody that signed up. Has everybody in the room that want to speak to this item that hasn't spoken? Seeing no one we'll go to WebEx?
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
We had uh one gentleman signed up for both fifty and fifty eight, but I'm is not online at this time.
Ron OakleyChair
Okay, that's the only one we have?
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Yes.
Ron OakleyChair
Mm okay.
It gotta be on cue, so we'll move on. So um rebuttal.
Unidentified speakerVoice F
Applicant Rebella.
Ron OakleyChair
Yep, applicant Rebella.
Please come forward.
Unidentified speakerVoice L
Angela Hallibur, Hilbert Henderson here for the applicants. Um at this time it I at this time it sounds like we're a lot further away than we thought we were after the amount of conversations we've had with staff, with all of you, and with the airport owners.
We thought we were further along, but it sounds like we still have work to do. Um it sounds like the neighborhood Wants us to have additional conversations with them and we respectfully request a continuance at this time. At a thirty day continuance.
Jack Mariano
Mr. Chairman Mariano. Mr. Mariano? I want to th I want to say thank you for that. Because clearly I I'd say I think the rest of us thought. That any time the abutting community that you would have talked to. I I I knew you talked to the airport, but I I thought it was Uh given that you're all did it. So and our rules from what they tell me doesn't make us do that. But I'm gonna say I think in the future we should take a look at any time we have anything where we're gonna have some access management issues. that neighborhood or process beside it need to be notified and
maybe we need to look at that. Um so again I think you've heard all the concerns. You want to address those? I'll move to continue.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
It would be the October meeting in Dade City is October eighth, according to my calendar, and it would be at one thirty Or soon thereafter as same may be heard, that would be the motion for the Complan amendment P A fifty and then I'll take another one on
Ron OakleyChair
fifty. So this is uh one motion for 50. Yeah. Okay. This motion for 50.
Unidentified speakerVoice J
I second.
Ron OakleyChair
I got a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Motion pass 5-0 to continue on October 8th.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
8th. And then you'd need a motion on 58.
Jack Mariano
Move to continue. P fifty eight to October eighth, one thirty.
Ron OakleyChair
Okay, I got a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Motion passed five zero. So the vote be continued to October eighth. Okay.
Unidentified speakerVoice L
Thank