PDE-26-7853

Every appearance1 of 2 are in a recording

Each appearance carries the official title above. Where the county’s wording changed, the change is marked: added and removed. Steps with no marks were worded identically.

TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 99% of 202 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong. 1 of the 2 appearances are not in any recording, so what was said at those is not here.

1. 1Nov 19, 2025
   Village of Pasadena Hills Planning and PolicyPC3Public hearingNo disposition in the minutes

   Substantial Modification (Consent) - … Evans G-2 MPUD to VOPH Agenda Increase the Total Residential … Pasadena Hills, Within Village G at the Southwest Corner of the Intersection of Kiefer Road and Handcart Road G.

   Open this item →No recording
2. 2Jan 6, 2026
   Board of County CommissionersP69Public hearingApproved

   Approved minutes

   Approved Staff’s recommendation.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 3:48:53
   ▶ 3:48:5334m

   MarianoChair

   3:48:53All in favor for P71 to continue? Aye. Aye. Aye. Okay. Any imposed? All right. That's good. Back to P69. Commissioner Starkey, you pulled it?

   Starkey

   3:49:05Yeah, I did. Um I'm trying to um understand this plan. Um if you could start at this map.

   Planning and Development staff

   3:49:15Yes, ma'am.

   3:49:21The village map?

   Starkey

   3:49:23Yeah, so what's the intent of that village center there? The red squares.

   Planning and Development staff

   3:49:28Sure the the red in V O P H is the non residential commercial retail.

   Starkey

   3:49:33So that's like a little and these are set to be villages with a commercial nodes in the middle.

   Planning and Development staff

   3:49:39Yes ma'am.

   Starkey

   3:49:39And residential coming out. And I mean isn't V OPH supposed to be something special?

   3:49:48Absolutely.

   3:49:50What is special about that apartment complex b about the sighting, the whole thing that you know, we just saw That one that Ryan is doing. At Old Pasco Road and Overpass. And that was special. I'm very dismayed at this segment. I'm not against the density. Or Or the square footage that's coming here. I know they're trying to get more density. You want that in a village center? But I'm very opposed

   3:50:20to this site plan. I don't know if this is a binding site plan, but I can't vote for it with that side

   3:50:28As what?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:50:29I knew that.

   Starkey

   3:50:29Yeah no I'm a no. I mean all day long I'm a no We need something special. This is a strip mall in a suburban small apartment complex. What's special about these? In your village and aren't the isn't this is this anywhere near the superpark?

   Oakley

   3:50:46The what? This is gonna be a

   Starkey

   3:50:49fungus international draw. It's gonna be something super.

   Oakley

   3:50:54This is a hand cart and key floor.

   Starkey

   3:50:56Yeah, I just I just, you know, I No one ever showed me this. I would uh Put a plug on that it I I can't sit here and fix it here, but I and again I'm not against your uses. I'm against the way you've laid it out. It needs to be special.

   Joel

   3:51:17Joel to

   Starkey

   3:51:18I'm

   Joel

   3:51:19a land use and development consultant for Evans Properties. So you want to design and plan the concept plan. That's what you're telling me.

   Starkey

   3:51:26I want to see a better Project layout.

   Joel

   3:51:31Alright, well let me try to address that. Please understand. That we have an existing approved MPUD from 2019. Okay? That has no binding concept plan because they weren't required then, has none of your design control regulations, does not require us to build Kiefer Road adjacent to our property. So we have voluntarily agreed when you say you don't like that do you understand that

   3:52:02these conditions and that plan does require us if we do townhomes, we have to do the rear-loaded townhomes fronting on Kiefer.

   3:52:13Are those town homes? Well

   3:52:17this is is the there are two plants.

   Starkey

   3:52:18Oh, I want to see that plant.

   Joel

   3:52:21The one you have up here is if there are apartments on the west side of the wetland.

   Starkey

   3:52:27Does anyone have the other plan?

   Joel

   3:52:28Sure.

   Starkey

   3:52:29That's the only plan we

   Joel

   3:52:30have.

   3:52:30They're both no. They're both in the MPD approval.

   YeagerSecond Vice Chair

   3:52:33No, we're talking she's talking in our

   Joel

   3:52:38Right there. So if you read the conditions, Commissioner Oakley. We have to do rear-loaded townhomes fronting on kefir so that you get your frontage look on kefir that you've requested elsewhere. We have the right under the current zoning to do the standard commercial out-parcel layout. Let me finish. Whereas this one we're required to front the retail buildings on the frontage. Okay. We we spent months,

   3:53:09this has been pending for two years, we spent months working out both of these plans. We agreed to insert all of these design conditions that the board has imposed since 2019. We agreed to abide by your C1 and C2 controls on commercial uses. We have none of those controls in our 2019 approval. So because it's late in the day We're perfectly prepared if you don't want these initial controls. And

   3:53:39if you don't want Kiefer Road built, we'll just live by the 2019 approval, have no restrictions, and let the chips fall where they may. because it's very disconcerting to come up here and be blasted that I did this. Well, I'm not sure you really understand the additional conditions that we've added to the property.

   Starkey

   3:54:00You know, no one came and talked to me about this.

   Joel

   3:54:02Well, was that staff's job or was it you have my cell number and you know where to find me? And did you reach out to me at all? To say I have a problem. That answer's no. So I hate to get short. But at this age my patience is getting a little thin. I you also know how it works if you have a problem. And if you have a problem All you've got to do is let us know. Now, if you want us to sit down and go through this with you so that we can get

   3:54:32you comfortable, that we are we have implemented, in my opinion, 99%. Of the controls you put on all the others we've done out there. And we voluntarily added. This is verbatim, William and Gavin will tell you, these are ver verbatim the conditions that you've approved about six times in the last eighteen months in V O P H. We're giving you exactly what you've required the other project.

   Starkey

   3:54:58Where where is the super park?

   Joel

   3:55:00It is a half mile east of here, straight across Kiefer. This is across from Pasadita?

   Oakley

   3:55:07This is this is Kiefer and Hancart right here.

   Joel

   3:55:10Yeah. I

   Oakley

   3:55:10mean

   Joel

   3:55:11you literally

   Oakley

   3:55:11if you go east on Kiefer just a little northeast of this corner of this property. Northeast is where the superpark is.

   Starkey

   3:55:20Where's where's Mike Gavin's commercial system?

   Oakley

   3:55:23He's uh he's north and

   Joel

   3:55:24all up and down. He's north and south of us. We actually took the gal the the bike Galvan MPD conditions are what we used With Gavin and William to do these conditions. These are exactly the conditions you've approved on those projects.

   Starkey

   3:55:42Um, so how many apartment and can you tell me what's there in the apartments?

   Joel

   3:55:48Uh if we do we have to we have to decide and notify staff that we're either going to do apartments on that west side or we're gonna do townhomes. Once we make that election, we have to buy abide specifically by the applicable content plan. If we go on the West Side. We probably, because we have we have under 20 acres, we may have 15 acres usable, we probably could do close to 300 apartments maximum. The reason we want 350

   3:56:19is we actually want to retain some units in case we can get a vertical mixed-use developer on the east commercial side so that we would have some to put above the retail. That's why the three fifty. If we opt for the town home plan on the west side, clearly we will not get three hundred and fifty units. Where

   Starkey

   3:56:38are you looking to do vertical mixed use?

   Joel

   3:56:40The east half of this property was approved originally for a hundred thousand square feet of retail.

   3:56:47Yeah, put that back up. We're not we're not changing that at all. See see the red stuff? The east half divided by the wetland. was originally approved for 100,000 square feet of commercial. We aren't changing that at all. All we're doing is we're agreeing to agree to move the buildings up to the frontage, not have frontage parking, which you hate, not have outparcels.

   Starkey

   3:57:11Don't say don't say I hate that.

   Joel

   3:57:12Well not have outparcels, not have direct outparcel access. Okay, and we've agreed to abide by your restriction on C1 and C2 uses that you've been imposing in VPA VOPH. We have none of those restrictions in our 2019 approval. So we frankly thought That in exchange for bumping up the density, and as you know, the reason to bump the density is this VOPHOPH financial plan is absolutely going to fail if we don't

   3:57:42achieve the density.

   3:57:45But I'm just saying I'm trying to explain to everyone why. But in exchange for asking for the a little bit of additional density, Evans has voluntarily agreed to now insert all of your your retail controls and all of your residential controls. But if that doesn't work, let's just go back to Plan A. Let's just keep what we have in 2019 and we'll go on.

   Starkey

   3:58:06Do you guys like this cycling?

   MarianoChair

   3:58:09Well that's a question or two. Uh so On the red it's all commercial. Yes sir. Like what do you expect. Offices, shops, retailers.

   Joel

   3:58:18Right. We I believe and I think this is this is a type one village, most intense village category in B O P H. This is one of the primary ones. The current interest is of course every grocer imaginative. All the grocers are wanting to get into V OPH. They're knocking on everyone's door. Beyond that, my personal opinion is you're going to be looking at a good mix of boutique shops and restaurants and Wine bars

   3:58:48and some professional office. I think you're going to have a lot of people that kind of work out of their own office that that will want to locate out here close to home. So I think we'll have a lot of professional offices, small retail, uh grocers. I mean that's what I think the market's going to attract, but who knows?

   Starkey

   3:59:08But

   Joel

   3:59:08this

   Starkey

   3:59:08this you haven't you haven't designed. that kind of layout. We just saw one at we we s we we just had one from Ryan.

   Joel

   3:59:23Commissioner, we're because we're providing that drainage pond voluntarily to serve Hankart Road, which they didn't have drainage for Hancart, we've only got ten or twelve acres of retail there. This isn't a 50, 60, 100 acre town center site. I mean you can't design every project to do everything. And w this is only one piece. Remember you saw you saw the other image. This this village center has four corners. We

   3:59:53just happen to only own this 40-acre parcel, but there are four corners to this. So the total village center is going to have all kinds of other things. But this this is just the southwest quadrant. Of that four quadrant village center.

   Starkey

   4:00:11We really shot ourselves in the foot when we took out a lot of the requirements at the OPH. Well I you weren't on the board and you weren't on the board there, but originally it was not it was different and They came in and they they got us to uh re you know um

   Joel

   4:00:35respectable

   Starkey

   4:00:37I I

   Joel

   4:00:38Well it has a wetland through the center. We're building we're constructing the multi-use path along the entire northern boundary that goes straight across Keeper to the superpark. Uh is that not walkable? A twelve foot multi purpose trail that goes

   Starkey

   4:00:52this is not a community. This this is This is the opposite of what I really hoped to see in the villages of Pasadena.

   Joel

   4:01:04Well I don't know what your vision is.

   Starkey

   4:01:06I don't know what staff I don't know who worked on this. Um I I really don't know the rules. We we were supposed to have some kind of workshop on what's going on in the OPH. I don't know if we ever did. Um but I I feel sorry. I feel Commissioner Oakley, this is your your hood. And and this is this is nothing special.

   Oakley

   4:01:28This was all done prior to me being here.

   Starkey

   4:01:30This is nothing special. That's that's the I

   Oakley

   4:01:33didn't design it. I was around when they approved it, but I was not a commissioner.

   MarianoChair

   4:01:39I'm gonna say with the commercial the way it is, and frankly if you need more commercial for more office or those work to spaces that these people go back and forth to, great. But one of the things we talked about and this is a big deal was having the ev all the buildings up to the front near the road. What we're doing. That's what you wanted to have and that's what he's done.

   Starkey

   4:01:57No that That you know the it it is there on Hand part. Um his

   Joel

   4:02:04own kefer too.

   Starkey

   4:02:05I mean if that's a a pu if that's a publix, they they get a little squirrely. I don't know if it's a publix. But

   Joel

   4:02:12Well. Well they all o wanna be up there. You can name every grocery in the market and every one of them is circling out there at all of these commercial centers. So far no one has signed any deal with any of them to my knowledge.

   Starkey

   4:02:25I just sent that picture to a very well-known planner. Um and he said that's a hell of a parking lot. Whatever sort of walkable place the county thought V O P H was gonna be is not happening. And you know, I I don't see what makes that different from anywhere else. And it's just

   Joel

   4:02:46Well me address that concern. If you read the conditions And again, this condition is not in The current 2019 approval. But if you approve this, the retail design condition actually says that Evans will abide by whatever retail design. criteria you adopt for V OPH. I wrote that up. Well, you're gonna make somebody build vertical mix how many

   4:03:16of those do you have? Dr. Ryan. How many vertical mixed use projects do you have existing in Pasco County with you saying that for the last fifteen years? How many of them are built?

   Starkey

   4:03:25But this is this is what that corner village was supposed to be. That's because we don't we don't require them.

   Joel

   4:03:32Well, we are uh Evans is not a developer and if you would like to purchase this and raise your capital to go build that vertical mixed use, Mr. Linton will take that contract in at Evans he'll probably sign it tomorrow morning. But until you're willing to put your capital behind those ideas, I think you need to be a little more fair about what you asked for.

   MarianoChair

   4:03:53Joe, let me ask a question. I'm gonna ask for something. So I look look at the connectivity and I know you get the connectivity t to the north. When I look down at the lower three buildings, and if you put s maybe if there's and I don't know if it's how how how long it is, how wide it is, whether it can be done or not, but even maybe a walking path going across the wetland, going across some type of wood bridge, if you can get them to where they get those lower parcels and then maybe get to the front of the building to the side. It might help a little bit. The ones to the north really don't need it because they go the other way, but if it helped them, that would help them a little

   4:04:23more accessible for the actually the five buildings to actually benefit.

   Joel

   4:04:25And we did we did talk with parks about that. The concern is that environmental crossing, but I think when we get to site plan and site development, the conditions do require us to do our best to have an integrated walkable path system throughout the project. And if it becomes feasible to do a boardwalk crossing or two connecting those paths, then we certainly would take a look at that. But uh it does require walkability in the conditions and you know, this isn't a defined site plan. I mean, you guys

   4:04:55are the ones that started requiring these concept plans. And all we can do when we have zero users, and we're completely guessing, is just do the best we can to give you a rendition that, again, abides by what we understand from prior approvals to be the primary concerns. Those primary concerns are those rear-loaded townhouses on the frontage. It's having those retail buildings push up on the road frontage, it's having walkable paths and connecting to the track. I mean, that's what we've been told to do. But

   4:05:26when you don't have a specific, it's a chicken and egg, and if you guys own this land and you're trying to develop this project and you had zero users, but you have to get zoning first before you can attract a user, you would have the same dilemma. It is impossible at this concept plan stage without any user to draw the plan that's going to be built and make everybody happy. And then of course everyone wants to be the planner. And not everyone can be the planner because they didn't get retained

   4:05:56for the project to do the planning. So it's it's it's patently unfair.

   YeagerSecond Vice Chair

   4:06:02I have a question. Um how many parking spaces do you have per unit?

   Joel

   4:06:07Uh you guys have the numbers. We we we resolved that based on the prior approvals and V OPH.

   4:06:20It's it's the 1.6 ratio for multi-family that you've approved on all the other projects out there. And if we do, every single one, every single one out there has been approved at 1.6. And it's two, three dozen of 'em. And if we do the vertical mixed use, then you get a reduction in that because of that. So it's exactly the same standard. As I said, these conditions were the quote Galvin MPD conditions that we put onto this project. And

   4:06:51I've stood up here a dozen times and had those approved and been congratulated. What a fine job you had.

   Starkey

   4:06:59Um can I see what the town hall one looked like?

   4:07:06Because we we don't have that in our book. That one. Oh wait, go back to that. What can you explain? No. You you had it. Not that one. Can you explain what's going on there? 'Cause I I don't really understand this one.

   Joel

   4:07:22Well, The ones on the key for frontage that are the slightly darker shade, those are the rear loaded ones. Townhomes. Town homes. All of these are townhome uh areas. And then there we have your you remember the town home conditions that you've made us put in every town home approval for the last five years. These are exactly those conditions. So these are exactly the conditions that you mandated us to put in every MPUD, which we did not have

   4:07:52in twenty nineteen.

   Starkey

   4:07:54Is there a clubhouse or anything for those townhomes?

   Joel

   4:07:57Well th there there there likely will be, but again, we don't have the townhome developer or user. So they will tell you, well, we would like that to be the third row would be our clubhouse, or the second row would be, I mean, they'll decide that. But the point is, we're supposed to show you a form of development that meets your basic rules. And your basic rules are we're loaded on the frontage, which we did. No more than so

   4:08:27many units per building, which we did, how many trees go there, how long the driveway has to be, you can't park on the street, all those conditions are in here. And they are exactly

   Starkey

   4:08:40I'm from parked on the streets, huh? But what's what's going up what's going on up there on Kiefer Road?

   Joel

   4:08:45Okay, Kiefer Road.

   4:08:49Right now we have no obligation to build anything. What we've agreed to build, which is uh going to cost us about twice as much. as our development fees will be. So we're going to be double upside down But because Hancart is under design to be built. We don't want to have to reconstruct the handcart intersection, so Evans has agreed to go ahead and require their developer, we are constructing essentially the west side of that hand cart intersection to conform

   4:09:19to the ultimate four-lane. configuration and the county engineer has approved this exact design because the problem is at the northwest corner of our property where that giant oak tree is and that house is, that gentleman is pretty insistent that that New Four Lane Road is not going through his living room at this point. Well

   Starkey

   4:09:42so

   Joel

   4:09:42so we are

   Starkey

   4:09:43green is is the is the boundary of the future Kiefer Road?

   Joel

   4:09:47Right. Well he let me tell you that story. The a landlorder on the north side of Kiefer, he said the following. He's not selling his land. He's not developing his land and he's not providing any right away to anybody. So Evans has voluntarily agreed that we are donating the entire hundred and forty two feet for that right away off our property. Again, we're not giving you that in the twenty nineteen approval. So if you don't want that right-of-way, we'll

   4:10:18just stick with 2019. But in this approval, we're donating all that right-of-way and constructing that road so that it can get back to the existing two lanes and not go through that man's living room yet.

   Oakley

   4:10:33Yeah. Can

   Starkey

   4:10:35I hear from S.

   Oakley

   4:10:36Mr. Oakley? Okay. Yeah, I've got I've got something to add to it. This from Hankart starting old Kiefer. Kiefer goes all the way to Curly. Curley and uh keeper or the corner of uh Kirkland Ranch School, the high school. We have trouble out there we're moving traffic around anyway. When this road eventually gets built, it's gonna help in relieving a lot of that traffic issues we have. Plus on Elam, coming on the

   4:11:06south side of the school

   4:11:10Over to Keeper is a vision road that's going to come in one day that will further help with spreading out the traffic. So this this is all very important to get that road started.

   Starkey

   4:11:23Yeah, and I I'm not

   Oakley

   4:11:24and they are willing to do that.

   Starkey

   4:11:27Like I said, I'm not against the uses, I'm not against the density increase. I just worsh I have a question for Steph. We have a better plan.

   MarianoChair

   4:11:36Mr. Yeager.

   YeagerSecond Vice Chair

   4:11:37Okay, question. You know I'm parking in townhomes. So how many one point six, what does that look like?

   Planning and Development staff

   4:11:43The the one point six is only for if they chose the multifamily garden style. Um

   4:11:50This binding plan That that ratio is only binding for those those purple units there. If they were to do the townhomes, that one point six wouldn't apply. They those homes would ostensibly have driveways.

   Barbara Wilhite

   4:12:02Those

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:12:02two apartments. There are two different plans. The the beige is townhomes, the purple is multifamily.

   YeagerSecond Vice Chair

   4:12:09Okay.

   4:12:10So if you flip flip back up there you go.

   4:12:14So that's that's one point six.

   Planning and Development staff

   4:12:16Yes, ma'am, for the purple.

   YeagerSecond Vice Chair

   4:12:18And then the other one. The townhomes?

   Planning and Development staff

   4:12:21The the townhomes ostensibly would have driveways. So it would just the parking would be accomplished on the driveway and where applicable we have in the conditions of approval that aren't on street parking would be permitted. Um, if they can make the uh the geometries and everything work once they lay out the sites.

   YeagerSecond Vice Chair

   4:12:35I uh I'll say 'cause I say it at every meeting, when we when we just plan these I wanna make sure that there's ample parking because I look out for people getting towed. It's a pet peeve of mine, so

   Starkey

   4:12:49Um.

   MarianoChair

   4:12:50Mr Starkey.

   Starkey

   4:12:51What what is that um going down the middle? Is that a um wetland?

   Oakley

   4:12:56It's a wetland area. It's a wetland area, drain.

   Starkey

   4:12:59I know what what category is?

   Oakley

   4:13:00It's a category one.

   Starkey

   4:13:01Can't go one it it's weirdly shaped. Yeah.

   Oakley

   4:13:04That's where it drains.

   David Engel

   4:13:06The headwater is connected to that big wetlands to the south on the side.

   Starkey

   4:13:09Okay, so I wanna hear y'all's thoughts on the on the conditions and layout and all those kinds of things.

   David Engel

   4:13:20It is uh David Engel, Planning and Economic Development Director. I'd like to speak to the layout. So we we spent an inordinate time and I'm I'm surprised that uh This isn't an a a plan to somewhat admire because we we we built up to the urban edge on all the perimeter streets and if you look at either scenario, whether it be towns or multifamily, there's a Most of the parking is screened from the roads. To accommodate on the townhouses, we provided

   4:13:50rear loaders with an alleyway, so you have urban edge along Kiefer Road. All the buildings, the retail buildings along Handcart are built up, brought up to the setback line, besides a little separation on the side yards. And we tried to optimize the design. There's an accommodation for potential of vertically integrated mixed use in the red areas. And we we do have a walkability issue because of the Class One. And as Mr. Tu said, during site plan, they

   4:14:20may want to bridge it with a walkway. And there is an ability to traverse along Kiefer Road from one from the west side to the east side of the project. Well we we we're limited to do internal connectivity because of the wetlands.

   Starkey

   4:14:34Um, I I do think the town home product layout is is more attractive than the apartment layout, but and I and I get that there's challenges in the site with that thing going down the middle. Um

   David Engel

   4:14:50The the reason why I was surprised is compared to the approved plan and what was being proposed, I I think this is a vast improvement.

   Starkey

   4:14:57I I don't I don't know what was approved, but I hope I

   David Engel

   4:15:02Well if you didn't like this, you would hate that. Yeah.

   Starkey

   4:15:07Well,

   David Engel

   4:15:08Plus we're getting four million dollars worth of road improvements. Just to just to give you a highlight, you know, why the density, what's the necessity? First of all, Uh VOPH has been built out uh below well below their entitlements and we're not hitting the the proper benchmarks to get our roads uh approved. And in fact I just met with Mike Galvin yesterday, he's the predominant builder in VOPH. He goes, Hey, you know I I'm out there, there's no development yet, and Hancart Road is like a parking lot. We need to get our roads in, and we couldn't support the road plan with the unentitled

   4:15:38underentitled densities of these projects. This isn't a peripheral village area and The original plan generates about $800,000 worth of mobility impact fees. This plan will generate about $2 million, $2.1 million to be precise. And the the costs of the Kiefer Road improvements are $4.1 million. So the to accommodate uh the county for the density, they'll be gonna be generating more than double the impact fee and

   4:16:09they're gonna have to eat an additional two million dollars in infrastructure costs.

   Starkey

   4:16:13On the um on the traffic circulation, I see It's I guess that's a write in and uh is that a full access entrance off the keeper? Into the commercial?

   David Engel

   4:16:27That that is a uh there's uh there's a right in and th no that looks like a full service intersection.

   Starkey

   4:16:33Okay, because the

   David Engel

   4:16:33it looks like

   Starkey

   4:16:34the one on hand card is only right right out. I mean I I I it's not integral to me though.

   David Engel

   4:16:41Steve Henry uh is the traffic engineer and designer in this project.

   Starkey

   4:16:45We only have one right one full access uh entrance. I'm curious why they didn't get one on hand card.

   Henry

   4:16:53Oh well on on hand cart, because it's facing, um there'll be a directional median opening to the south. So that texture on there. So it so if you look at that uh as you go from Kiefer south There's a directional mill which should be left in, right in, right out. So that's what we're proposing there because the spacing and the widening of of hand cart, that's all we could fit. within the property frontage.

   MarianoChair

   4:17:19So to be clear there's no left in from hand card

   Henry

   4:17:21into the commercial? No. No, yes. Yes, that left in. Coming from the south, coming up. Left in, right in, right out. There's no left out.

   Joel

   4:17:30Just no left out.

   Henry

   4:17:32Yeah, that's okay.

   MarianoChair

   4:17:37Exactly.

   4:17:39But they just go to the back of the parking lot, they would just go straight up and take it right or left. Correct. Yeah, they go out to keep her and make a left to light. It's easy. And that's what they're gonna do.

   Starkey

   4:17:50Whoever your developer ends up being here um is very sensitive to the history of what this area's supposed to be. And the super park, the you know, the mountain bike park and everything that we're building right down the street. I hope there's a hotel on here. Um We do too. You know, I I wish it it could have been the commercial I don't know.

   WeightmanVice Chair

   4:18:22I feel like I was deja vu listening to Mr. Two up here talk to you, Commissioner Starkey, earlier today. Anyway, just you guys know how much of a stickler I am for being compliant with the V OPH plan. This level of density and where this is. is within the proper circle. I'm gonna ask every time because of what happened to Village B at McCabe and Curley and that whole intersection right there.

   David Engel

   4:18:51My answer is sir that this is consistent with the VO adopted VO PH plan and Will Vermillion will confirm that if he can.

   WeightmanVice Chair

   4:19:00A picture is worth a thousand words on these. Which is what I how I look that's what I go online to the website and I look at the picture. So

   Planning and Development staff

   4:19:12sir. So let me I'll back us up. to the village plan. This falls within that that red area and that dark brown area which is the

   Starkey

   4:19:21That's the town center.

   Planning and Development staff

   4:19:22Right. So that's the the the core and the core residential which is up to uh Which is the highest density residential and V OPH as well as the non residents.

   WeightmanVice Chair

   4:19:30So my question is within VOPH, so north of it on the north side is the Hancark Garden Center. They've done a phenomenal job rehabbing. that place and it looks fantastic and I hope they they do a f a a great business. It's it's really a unique gym and I think they're probably going to evolve and s do more than just plants. Well then these urban cores like this. The garden center, how As time as time goes on, obviously there's entitlements to change. But

   4:20:01how can we can I I want to ensure that we continue to complement the existing businesses that are such as unique as they are with the neighboring it's a prime corner, they're on prime corner and there's two others, right? So I want to make sure that when when projects are coming through, they're complementary to what's existing. There's you know, to make money off plants It's expensive and uh there's big time investment made there and and I'm very proud of what they've what they've built.

   4:20:32So just something to keep in mind as V OPH you know evolves.

   David Engel

   4:20:38Yes, sir, and the there's a a method to the madness of aggregating uh this town center because the garden center will benefit from the additional traffic coming in and out of there.

   MarianoChair

   4:20:52All right, I'm just gonna ask because no one had commented, does anyone from the public want to speak to this item?

   4:20:59Okay. Let's do public comment.

   Oakley

   4:21:03Are they sound there?

   MarianoChair

   4:21:12You want to one in? Okay.

   4:21:17Right, you swear

   Starkey

   4:21:18it.

   Maria Shaw

   4:21:19My name

   Starkey

   4:21:20is name and address for the record.

   Maria Shaw

   4:21:27My name is Maria Shaw. I live at [address removed].

   Starkey

   4:21:35Hm and you swear that any uh the evidence that you will give or the testimony you will give in this uh matter is the truth, so how do you doubt?

   4:21:43I do.

   4:21:43Thank

   Maria Shaw

   4:21:44you. Okay. Uh I'm here only because of not this project here.

   MarianoChair

   4:21:52We're only here to speak this uh this project right now.

   Maria Shaw

   4:21:54Oh gee? No, I'll wait then way later.

   MarianoChair

   4:21:58Uh I'm gonna make a comment as far as With the extra th improvements that you guys are doing, I think it's huge. It's much needed. Um we'll we'll see some benefits down the road. And as you do get an end user, I think that's the time to really dive into it. But what you've done with the layouts at the frontage, I mean that was what we were pushing for for a long time. Uh I prefer definitely the town home edge, but we'll see what see what plays out. And I'm glad someone mentioned hotel because I think a hotel would be a nice little addition to that too because with that park right there, if we run

   4:22:29big events, guess what they're gonna they're gonna want to do? Stay right there. I think a public's right there or whatever's gonna be a perfect fit 'cause all those people go into the parking load up and go. So this needs to be an intense thing and I'm gonna say this, if you guys have a user and you think you need more entitlements, especially commercially, I want you to come back and reach out to her 'cause we can do more more of that verticalness and even create more Jobs right in there as well, so be it. Don't be locked into just what you got. We appreciate what you got, but this

   4:22:59at least gets it rolling to get the infrastructure in place, which will help. Alright, any further discussions?

   4:23:07Alright, add it to the board. Luke approval. Second. Any further discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye aye. Any opposed? All right. Approved. Five over. Thank you.