PEG-24-0396

Published agenda

3 appearances between Jul 25, 2024 and Aug 21, 2024, at 2 boards.

OutcomeNo action by the Board of County Commissioners on Aug 6, 2024

No action required as this was the first hearing. The adoption hearing was set for the August 21, 2024 Board of County Commissioners meeting at 1:30 p.m. in New Port Richey.

Official title

An Ordinance By The Pasco County Board Of County Commissioners Amending The Pasco County Land Development Code; Providing For Amendments To Section 1302.3, School Impact Fees, To Make Such Section Consistent With The 2024 School Impact Fee Study And To Adopt Such Study; To Increase The Amount Of School Impact Fees; Providing For Additional Amendments As Necessary To Ensure Internal Consistency; Providing For Applicability, Repealer, Severability, Inclusion Into The Land Development Code, Modification And An Effective Date.

On a calendar

Jul 25, 2024 → Aug 21, 2024 · click a mark to jump to that appearance

Every appearance3 of 3 are in a recording

TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 67% of 330 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.

1Jul 25, 2024
Planning CommissionPC15Consent agendaApproved
Approved minutes
Approved the item per Staff’s recommendation.
Open this item →
34m
Denise
All right, Mr. Chairman M C fifteen.
Unidentified speaker
Is it the lighting? Mood
GreyChair
lighting, I guess, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is that what they call it? They do this more often.
What is it?
Denise
And in PC fifteen, um the school impact fee.
GreyChair
Okay. Thank you.
Denise
I believe this is being presented by Mr. Gad.
Raymond Gadd
Good afternoon, Commissioners. Um I can't resist making a personal comment. I'm an avid quail hunter and I have very little sympathy for the eastern diamondback rattler.
They don't taste bad either. I've met three of them in my lifetime. I don't want to meet any more.
Connected City
Yeah, that's more than enough.
Raymond Gadd
This is my last hurrah. This is the third impact fee I've worked on. and I'm retiring in September. Um the people that are with me today have done all the heavy lifting and I just wanted an opportunity to dress the Planning Commission one last time. I wanna tell you who's with us. We have over here our assistant superintendent Betsy Kuhn, who's done a lot of heavy lifting on this impact fee. Tammy Taylor, our CFO. And our outstanding vice chair on the school board, Alison
Crumley. Um we also have Cynthia Armstrong here. I think a lot of you know her on our school board
GreyChair
never
Raymond Gadd
heard of her.
GreyChair
Never heard
Raymond Gadd
of her. Never heard of us. She's been a great friend of the school system and Colin Colleen Bowen from Central Pasco. We also have two of our oversight committee members on the um Penny for Pasco Oversight Committee and that's Hugh Townsend who I'm sure you've seen here before. Yes, we have. And Tom Suratko, who currently chairs our Penny for Pasco Oversight Committee. The last time we uh commissioned
a impact fee study was two thousand and seventeen. That was the third one that I've worked on. I'm proud to say that in every impact fee. We passed three of them. Um the Builders, Tampa Bay Builders Association Association at one time it was the Pasco Builders Association, has stood side by side with us at the podium in front of the county commission and supported our Um B The same is true
today. I thought Edward Briggs was going to be here. He represents the Tampa Bay Builders Association. I don't think he's in the audience.
Chris Williams
He's here. He stepped out. He stepped out. Well uh he's on the phone call, but he's here.
Raymond Gadd
But I know that he has sent you the letter of support from the Tampa Bay Builders Association. I want you to know that before we commissioned this study, we brought the Tampa Bay Builders Association into our office. And ask them is it was there anything in particular we wanted to focus on? Was there anything in particular that they wanted us to do relative to the impact fee study? And they had a few questions. Uh we Took those to heart. We completed the impact fee
study. Then we had a a Zoom meeting with them And about Four to five days later they voted in an open board meeting to fully support the impact fee. The impact fee is incremental at $1,000 a year. And as you know, the legislature has changed the rules related to impact fees so that impact fees can not exceed 50% of the difference between the existing impact
fee and the new recommended impact fee. We fall under that and we're doing an incremental impact of a thousand dollars a year. if you ask where did that come from? It was arbitrary. We sat down with the builders and we wanted to stay under the statutory limits, and a thousand dollars a year looked good. Now we have not met with folks from the multifamily apartment business um They don't have local representation
as far as I know. Uh but they have a group that comes out of Miami. And as a I think somewhat humorous aside, David Goldstein will remember this. In 2017, when we increased the impact fee, the multifamily folks showed up here and said it would be devastating to the construction of apartments in Pasco County. I find that humorous given what's happened since 2017. And we have not met with any
folks from the mobile home community. Uh our impact fee consultant is here with us today, Carson Bice. Right here. Uh we paid for him to come here, so I invite you to ask him the toughest questions you can possibly ask him. Um He tells me he's good at dancing. I'd like to see a little bit of it. There you go. Where's the
GreyChair
music?
Raymond Gadd
And Chris Williams and Betsy Kuhn can both tell you what we're facing in square foot cost. I think there's every one of you up there knows what we're facing in terms of square foot costs. Over the past ten years, our square foot costs to build a school have almost doubled. In two thousand seventy We paid $178 a square foot to build Cypress Creek Middle. We We are now running around three thirty, three thirty-five. And
we actually built a building not long ago that was around three ninety a square foot. So the impact fee is very much needed and I'm pleased that the sales tax passed again um because I think it will help us keep up in Pasco County relative to growth. So without further ado, I'd like to bring Carson Bice up. If you have any questions for him, and
GreyChair
I have a couple questions, Mr. Gadd. Okay. So how many years have you been with the school board now?
Raymond Gadd
Over forty years.
GreyChair
Over forty years.
Raymond Gadd
I thought you'd beat me out. Well
GreyChair
I think I just did. No. I'm s I didn't quit yet. No, I I just wanted to uh say in front of everybody, you know, how much I think we all and especially me Appreciate the work you've done over the years. You've always been a great person to work with. You've always been considerate of everybody's concerns and and you've done a masterful, I think. and very professional and courteous. uh job Yeah, with the with the school board. and
taking real heart in to the uh betterment of Pasco County. And I I think it's really a credit to to you and and to all the people that are here with you today. to uh to say thank you And uh I'm sure we'll find something for you to do, you know, in the coming months and years. So Just stay t stay tuned.
Raymond Gadd
Well ditto to you because I feel the same about you, Chuck. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. An institution in this community. I've enjoyed working with you.
GreyChair
Thank you, Matt. Okay, so who's the v next victim?
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Thanks, Ray. I'm Carson Bice with Tischler Bice. We're based in Bethesda, Maryland and Boise, Idaho. And I'm assuming I can Yeah, there we go. Right next to each other. What's that? Maryland and Idaho, right? Yeah. Drive to work. A lot of diversity uh between the two states. Um anyway, the joke in Boise is is that's California's fifth largest city as well California. Which is why we have an office there. Uh a little bit about us. Uh
our firm is, as I said, is based in Bethesda, Maryland, and Boise, Idaho, and we have a unique specialty on cost of growth issues, specifically impact fees and infrastructure financing strategies, as well as is fiscal and economic impact analysis. And we've done more of this type of work than than any firm in the country, and we've got considerable uh school impact fee experience here in the state of Florida. Uh a little bit about the Pasco County school impact fee. Uh nothing has changed relative to the components that's within the calculation. It does
have uh the cost of construction of additional classroom space. Uh it also has a land component and also has a component for buses. Uh we use what we call the consumption-based or incremental expansion approach, very standard for impact fees, particularly schools, where we take a snap. snapshot of the current level of service as it relates to uh you know the the size the average size of like an elementary school uh student seats, what does it cost to build that seat, what does it cost to buy land, et cetera. Uh and then we also have to guard against new development
pain twice through credits or offsets. Uh so as part of this calculation, uh we've been very generous with the credits and have actually given more than legally that we would we would be required to do. But we want to err on the side of being conservative. So we have credits for future payment on it on existing debt issuances. We have future capital outlay and debt service revenue. a credit for that, a credit for future penny for Pasco sales tax revenue, as well as a credit for uh future local
capital improvement millage revenue. Uh as the first step in in conducting an impact fee analysis, we have to determine what the demand indicators are. And for uh school capacity, it's the number of public school age children uh per housing unit. And so we calculated these student generation rates shown in the green column here by type of uh housing unit using geocoded data provided by the school board. So it is
Pasco County specific. It's not the the U.S. Census public use microsample data for the county. It's actually based on uh the geocoded data provided by the the school board. And then by applying uh these student generation rates to the increase the projected increase in housing units over the next ten years, we are projecting an additional thirteen thousand seven hundred uh school students in the Pasco County school system.
So this slide here shows planned permanent capacity additions, and the focus of these are on the first or the initial five years. And I'll get into that here in a second. But there's three or four projects here with the total additional student seats of 4,160. And one of those, the Dayspring Angeline, is a charter school that will receive impact fee funding.
And then what we do is we program in these planned capacity additions and then compare that to the enrollment projection. And it's kind of hard to read from here, but there's there's two circles here, and that's why I brought my computer with me so I could actually read you the numbers. But with the planned expansions over the next 10 years at the K through eight level. Even with that addition of 3,560 public seats, not including the charter school seats,
the K-8 system will be at 99% of capacity. Now, if we didn't add any of these seats at all, we would be at 105% capacity. Although we don't have additional student seats programmed in the CIP for high schools, it's clear from the Bottom chart that additional high school capacity will be needed in the next 10 years and we expect the school uh district to come forward with plans for additional seats, whether they're classroom uh additions uh or a brand new school.
Uh but we would be at hundred percent capacity uh uh at the end of the uh the ten year period without additional seats.
Uh here's the component for land. Again, we like to be uh conservative with our assumptions, and rather than project the future cost of land, uh we look at well, what has the district paid for over the last four or five years, either through purchases uh or land that's under contract or through impact fee credits. And so we've got five examples. here with the total cost of 14.2 million for a total of 237 acres. And so that results
in a weighted cost per acre of $59, uh, eight hundred and forty-six dollars.
And then we ha also have a cost of construction. And that is based on these planned uh uh projects. Uh we've got a weighted average cost of $361 a square foot when we look at these four uh capacity additions. And then finally, there is a cost for buses within the uh the analysis, and we look at the total inventory of buses and what does it cost to purchase tomorrow or today, which
is $137,688, and we get our cost per student by comparing that to existing enrollment.
And then finally, uh this table here walks you through from top to bottom, basically it's a summary of all of these different slides that I've shown you to date. Uh the top part of the uh slide shows the student generation rates that we discussed in the beginning, and then we walk ourselves down through these levels of service for PK through eight as well as high school in terms of the Cost per student for building construction, the cost per student for land, the
cost for buses, and so we get that total, that gross capital cost per student of 53,598 for PK through eight and forty-six thousand eight seventy-nine at the high school level. And from that, we then deduct those credits that I mentioned. Uh and so we get a uh net local capital cost of thirty-seven thousand four hundred and fifty dollars. uh for the uh PK through eight and then uh thirty seven thirty thousand seven hundred and thirty one uh at the um Um Yeah,
K through or uh nine through twelve. Uh Vee level. So the next slide is the maximum supportable impact fee. And so uh Mr. Gadd mentioned that there's a statutory limit. Uh the Act, the Impact Fee Act was changed about three or four years ago, which limits the increases uh for impact fee, and it also limits the the how often you can do the studies. You have to do it uh at a or the the fees have to you can't do a study except for every four years and some
jurisdictions like Osseola and a few others are doing them every two or three years. But you can see here in the green column the maximum supportable fee for a single family unit is $13,613. Uh multifamily is $6,576 and mobile home is $6,666. And the changes to the Impact Fee Act state that if you're going to increase the impact fees between zero and twenty-five percent, they have to be done in two annual equal increments. If we're gonna go between twenty-five
and fifty percent, it has to be over a four-year or four equal increments. And as you can see here in the sort of the salmon colored column that we are exceeding the 25% increase for all three housing types. And the statutory limits are there shown in blue, where the maximum supportable was 13613, but we're statutorily capped at 12,492.
And finally, as Mr. Gadd mentioned, there was negotiations with the home builders, and this shows you the recommended impact fee compared to the maximum supportable and the statutorily limited. Fee. And so we are proposing these $1,000 increases over a four-year period. So the single family fee would be $900 or $9,328 in year one and would ratchet up to $12,328
by the end of the four-year period. uh multifamily would be capped out over the four year period at sixty three eighty nine and a mobile home at sixty four thousand or sixty four hundred and seventy seven dollars. And with that, I'm happy to answer any questions that the Planning Commission may have.
GreyChair
I might I had a couple. Yeah go ahead. Go ahead. I thought he couldn't have done that good a job.
Connected City
He's good, but not that good. Um one could you explain the the credit for existing debt payments? 'Cause it almost sounds like um that's a payment being made by the school board out as opposed to money coming in. So is that Revenues coming in from existing geo bonds or
Unidentified speakerVoice A
So w if I cut if I pay an impact fee, I'm also paying property tax that goes to retire that debt, but also property tax of the future that may go to retire future debt, and I'm also generating sales tax money that you're going to use to retire bonds as well.
Connected City
Okay.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Uh or or use for school construction. So the ex the existing debt credit includes debt that's being retired with sales tax bonds as well as uh certificates of participation and uh bonds backed by property tax. Then there's a credit for future revenue, which would be the future sales tax that you could use for capacity. And future local capital improvement millage that you could use for future capacity.
Connected City
So it's a decrease in the payments that the school board's making on these general obligations. Okay. And then the other question I I had was um on the uh I think it was a previous slide where it's showing the maximum change. Uh maximum change is fifty percent, but um on multifamily mobile home you have it at thirty five and thirty percent. So I was just curious why that was listed there. The statutory limit was listed lower.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
So the statute so we can't We can't increase more than fifty percent without Correct. Providing for extraordinary circumstances where there is a process you can go to. And some jurisdictions have done that. So the ma while the maximum supportable is thirteen thousand six hundred and thirteen, if we cap it at the fifty percent, it's twelve thousand four nineteen.
Connected City
Right, yeah, I got that. But the two the the two below that, so the cap would actually the session limit would actually be higher than what is being recommended.
Unidentified speaker
Right.
Connected City
Okay. So statutory limit on that is actually eight thousand dollars for the multifamily, for example. Okay. So that's just an incorrect number in that column?
Chris Williams
No. I th I think I think you're are you just asking why didn't we go to the max?
Connected City
Well no, I'm just asking why the statutory limit was listed as lower. It was listed as thirty-five and thirty percent there. But that's not
Unidentified speakerVoice A
that's the percentage change, not the statutory limit.
Connected City
But so the the total is sixty-five seventy-six. And so the current fee is forty eight Uh forty-four. The difference was sixteen hundred and ninety-two.
Unidentified speaker
Carson, I I can maybe
Connected City
twenty four hundred dollars would have been the statutory
Unidentified speaker
limit.
Is actually higher than your maximum supportable fee for multiple. We can't justify it.
We can't justify the 50%
Connected City
of the right-of-way.
Understood. Yeah. Understood.
So that was that was my only you know I just thought that was
The numbers were off.
Christopher Poole
All right. Yeah. So one question, Mr. Bice. You mentioned that uh day spring Angeline is eligible for impact fee. Is that because of kind of the unique nature of it with Angeline's public fees you know, fields being there? Is that is that typical for charter schools to be able to get impact fees?
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Uh well there was a change in legislation that now allows that. Okay. Now I haven't seen it widely used and I don't know the particulars of why this one is is receiving the impact fee. Perhaps Chris or or Mr. Gag could answer that.
Chris Williams
One of us can. I'll let Mr. Gadd you don't want to fall in that trap, do you?
Raymond Gadd
By the way, Mr. Williams could easily explain that. Um the Pasco County School Board has taken a position That we don't want to be unfriendly or in opposition to charter schools. And charter schools can help us with growth. And so uh three or four years ago we started reaching out to charter schools. And one of the things we're trying to do is control the type of charter schools that we have in our county. So we reached
out to homegrown effective charter schools like Day Spring. and said, would you want to enter into a cooperative relationship with us? The statutes allow impact fee to be used to build charter schools. So we now have agreements with a couple of charter schools. And there are interesting agreements. And I don't want to go into too much detail, but you might say public money or impact fee money is being used to fund these charter schools.
Бо ви особа контракт с тем детс ⁇ дей фал. for example, or go bankrupt. That those schools return to us. We have what's called a step in agreement. And we are unique in the state in terms of what we are doing with these schools. Um we're probably only gonna do two or three and see if it works out. Um a lot of the builders Um in particular I don't want to single them out. But Lenar has, for example, a strong relationship
with charter schools, and so we've worked with them. Um And our feeling is is that if we can Boost the local charter schools like D Day Spring, then we keep the big corporate charter schools. out of our county and we can have a closer working relationship with the local folks here in the community. Uh and so we Started this um process. Uh we probably won't see any more for years because we want to
see one actually get up and running so that we can make sure it works. We have maintenance agreements with them, insurance agreements with them, cooperative curriculum agreements and sharing agreements with them. But um we are unique across the state in terms of doing this. We're not the only one that does it. But our system of for doing this is very unique and the contracts that we have are very unique. Does that answer the question?
Connected City
Brain, does that basically work as a almost like a lien on the property for the impact fee that are paid? So if the charter school fails then
Yeah. Absolutely.
Raymond Gadd
And we and we even have little things in there like 'Cause there might you know The charter school might want to go out and expand, but if they want to go out and expand, they have to get our permission. Cause we don't want to be assuming they're dead. So say a charter school goes out and gets a second mortgage because they want to build a building and then they fail and we've got five, ten million dollars in debt if we take that school back over. So we actually have contracts with them where They basically have to
come to us. We allow them to operate freely as a charter school should. But we're not gonna allow them to put us in a debt situation. So we have a lot of little agreements like that in the contracts.
Christopher Poole
Yeah,
GreyChair
I mean I think that's a great system, honestly.
Christopher Poole
I I will I will thank you for making Day Spring Angela in your first one because my family will personally benefit from it. So it's pretty selfish I
GreyChair
appreciate that. Okay. So are you saying you can't vote on this? I guess that's a
Raymond Gadd
Well w and you know, I will tell you, um we recently had a controversial one which is was a Patel school because we gave them some land to build a school. And I realize why it's controversial. It's unique and different. People have different perspectives about Charter schools. But to build a high school these days, you know, you're talking about Anywhere from sixty-seven, seventy million to a hundred million dollars. And so we recently
agreed with the charter school to give them a little bit of land. And they're gonna spend fifty milyen dollars building. you know, a school which is fifty million dollars off our books. And at the end of the day, I think it's important to remember that charter schools, in my opinion, are here to stay. and many of them are doing a great job. especially the day springs of the world doing an incredible job. And what a lot of people don't know is that Some charter
schools kind of even though there's a lottery they cherry pick their kids. I think last time I looked at Day Spring there Low income population was about forty-two percent. And they are notoriously an A school. Am I wrong?
Christopher Poole
From what I understand, that's correct. I'm I'm on the Angeline side, so I benefit from a from the athletic field at the Angeline,
Raymond Gadd
yes. Greg Complex. And that's a new experiment as well. So Uh we think we're saving the taxpayers money. Uh we're gonna find out pretty soon.
Connected City
Well charter schools already share with uh the voucher program, so it only makes sense for impact money to go there as well. Good job, right.
Raymond Gadd
All right, thank you.
Connected City
Okay, and I think that's
Chris Williams
exactly what you were gonna say, right, Chris?
Raymond Gadd
That's correct.
Chris Williams
Yes. I mean the and the one thing I would emphasize is that when we do these, again, we have a step in agreement. If a charter school comes and we don't have a par any kind of relation with them And they fail. then then we're having to figure out where are all those kids gonna go. But with these, where we are trying to control a few of these, um If they do fail and we're not necessarily anticipating they are, but if they do we get We get the building, we have a place to put all of those kids. The
teachers still have jobs. Yeah.
GreyChair
And for those of you who don't know, there might be a few of you who don't know, Chris Williams is a r s representative for the school system on our board, so And we depend on his Wisdom. to point us in the right direction. That's right. Oh boy.
Okay. Is there anybody else who'd like to speak, Allison?
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Just briefly.
GreyChair
Welcome by the way.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Thank you for coming. Thank you, Alison Graham. How
GreyChair
do you always do such a good job?
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Well I appreciate you saying that. Likewise. Um [address removed]. I assume you need that. And uh thank you, honorable Uh Chairman Gray and uh Attorney Goldstein and honorable members. Appreciate it. I'm gonna I'm gonna recap on a few things and I appreciate my fellow two of my fellow board members being here because we are all so strongly uh behind this. And I just want to remind the proposed increase will assist with keeping
up with our construction costs in our growing school district. We now have almost 90,000 students, in case that's a new number to you. When I started here. Golf High. And they just built Hudson so Quite a we've come quite the way. Impact fees allow the school district to balance building new schools to support new growth while allowing us to renovate our existing schools with the Penny for Pasco funds. As you know, both are equally important. And as someone who went to high school on double
sessions and the forty five fifteen plan. Don't let that for anybody else. It was not good for students. We appreciate the support from the Tampa Bay Builders Association and their strong stance that good schools build strong communities. So again, just thank you very much on behalf of my board. Appreciate it. Thank you.
Connected City
You said you're at nine ninety thousand now?
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Nearly. That includes charters. Yeah, nearly ninety thousand now. I know. So growing every day. So thank you guys so thank you all so much. We really
GreyChair
do.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Thank you.
GreyChair
Okay. Anybody else like to speak?
Welcome.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Good afternoon, uh Chairman Gray, honorable members of the committee. Uh almost like old times, you as chair, I was seated in one of those, and Ray was over where Chris was. But Today I Hugh Townsend, [address removed], uh rise to speak in support. of this impact fee. Back in twenty seventeen I was vice chair of a committee of citizens, builders, and school
uh personnel that worked out the details of the first impact fee or the impact fee at that time. before the pandemic, before the increase that we now see to construction. We need to keep up to date. And increase what we're looking and what we have been receiving in order to provide quality education to our students. Um I uh at fair disclosure, I'm vice chair uh the uh penny for Pasco. So I see how the money is being utilized
and indeed properly utilized. As a slightly funnier side, Anyone that doesn't want to pay the impact fee can easily buy an existing home. Both my children. Bought existing homes, Both now have built brand new homes in Starkey. But my oldest daughter and her husband went out to dinner with my wife and I Just as we were concluding the impact fee in two thousand seventeen. And they had some great news to tell us. And
I had some great news to tell them that we'd negotiated a deal. Well they started first. And they told me they were just looking into and signing to build a brand new house in Starkey Ranch. I picked up the dinner tab that night. But everybody's happy. My grandchildren are going to Starkey. Everything is wonderful, and I truly hope that we can Put this on the books and move forward so that we can continue to
have Excellent education here in Pasco County. Um any questions? Uh does that mean you're buying us all dinner tonight? Well, if you all are gonna buy new uh and build new homes
GreyChair
Thank you very much. Thank you very much. It's great to see you again. Great to see you again. Thank you.
Anyone else?
Unidentified speakerVoice D
Mr. Chairman Commissioner Edward Briggs, three eight one two Coconut Palm Drive, Tampa, Florida, representing the Tampa Bay Builders Association. I don't want to take up too much of your time, but did want to come up and speak. We just appreciate the opportunity from Ray Gadd, his wonderful staff, the board members to work with them comprehensive on this. They came to us very early on, which I know is hard when you come to the builders and say, Hey, we want to raise impact fee, everyone kind of freaks out. But we appreciate the opportunity to work with them. We think the compromise given to you all on the phase in is really well. We we
understand the importance of schools in our community for for us and for our buyers and everything. So thank you so much for having us be here today.
GreyChair
I appreciate you coming. Thank you very much.
Unidentified speakerVoice E
Good afternoon. My name's Tom Skaratka. We live at [address removed]. First of all, I want you to know I told uh Hugh Townsend to keep his presentation very short because he likes to talk. I am Chairman of the uh Penny for Pasco Oversight Committee. What you all have heard, the committee has already heard. And I'll keep my comments short. I too,
and as a member of the Penny for Pasco Oversight Committee and all the committee members, we urge you to approve this increase in the impact fee funds. Thank you. Thank you.
GreyChair
All right.
All right. That being the case.
Denise
So on this item, you're sitting as a local planning agency. We're asking that you find the proposed ordinance consistent with the Pasco County Comprehensive Plan and recommend approval to the to the Board of County Commissioners. On this item, the first reading is scheduled for August 6, 2024, at 1:30 P.M. in Dade City, and the adoption is scheduled for August 21st, 2024, at 1.30 in Newport Ritchie.
GreyChair
All right.
Have an uh motion and a multiple second. All in favor? Signify by saying aye.
Okay, well she carries.
Connected City
Very good. Tough raising taxes, but unfortunately inflation's affected everybody. So and that includes buying schools and property and everything else. So We've got to do what needs to be done. Take care of our kids.
Well,
GreyChair
I'll send
Connected City
you my share of the bill.
GreyChair
Okay. Thank you very much everybody. Appreciate it. Uh is there anything else Denise?
Denise
That's all
2Aug 6, 2024
Board of County CommissionersP54Public hearingNo action
Approved minutes
No action required as this was the first hearing. The adoption hearing was set for the August 21, 2024 Board of County Commissioners meeting at 1:30 p.m. in New Port Richey.
Open this item →
22m
OakleyChair
Not for this item. Okay. We'll move from this item to P54.
StarkeyVice Chair
Uh we have the publication of this item July tenth and July twenty eighth, twenty twenty four editions of the Tampa Bay Times.
Unidentified speakerVoice F
And for that last item, just for purposes of the record, the second hearing is held is to be held on August twenty first, uh, twenty twenty four at one thirty in Newport Ritchie.
OakleyChair
Okay.
OakleyChair
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Item P fifty-four is um
You wanna PEG twenty four oh three nine six. This is an ordinance by the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners amending the Pasco County Land Development Code, providing for amendments to section 1302.3 school impact fee to make such section consistent with the 2024 school impact fee study and to adopt such study to increase the amount of school impact fee, providing for additional amendments as necessary to ensure internal consistency, providing for applicability, repealer, subverability, inclusion into the land development code, application,
and an effective date. This is the first hearing of the proposed ordinance before the Board of County Commissioners, and I'd like to introduce Mr. Ray Gedd, Deputy Superintendent of the School Board.
Raymond Gadd
Good afternoon. Ray Gadd, Deputy Superintendent of Schools, 6504, Westerio Loop, Land Oak Explorer, 34638. Uh I don't think there's very many opportunities where we're all together, but I want to take a moment to introduce you to our board who's almost all of them are here except one. And that's Alison Grumley, Cynthia Armstrong. Colleen Bowen, Megan Harding, our chair, Allison Crumley, our co-chair. And we also have our CFO with us,
Tammy Taylor, Assistant Superintendent Monica Isles, Betsy Kuhn, Assistant Superintendent. Chris Williams, our planning director. And then also in the back, don't hold us against us, but we have our consultant once. I'd like to accomplish three things today. I'd like to summarize how we got here. Then I'd like to turn it over to our consultant if you have any questions, and then our board chair would like to make a closing comment if that's
okay with the commission. Before we conducted this study, we brought Brought the builders in for our face-to-face meeting, and first thing we asked them, is there anything specifically you want us to look at? And we had a robust conversation about impact fee. You know how those robust conversations go. So we spent a couple hours discussing the fees with the builders. And frankly, I was amazed when we got done with that meeting. One of the builders looked at all of us and said, You know, all of our kids need good schools. So we conducted the Study.
After we conducted the study, we held a Zoom call with the same group of builders. A few days later, they approved the impact fee as we're going to present to you today or as you have in your packet at their board meeting. We were recently recommended for approval by the Planning Commission and It's an incremental increase, which I know that you're familiar with. I'm guilty at the Planning Commission. I was doing our
consultant's job and telling you all about the study. This time I'm going to let our consultant do his job. After all, we're paying him a lot of money. And I invite you to ask him tough questions. We want to get our money's worth out of him. So without further ado, Carson Weiss with Tishler Weiss. Yeah.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Friends are like that. Who needs enemies, right? Well
in jest, uh Ray is a really good friend of mine, and it's my pleasure to uh to be in front of you today, Mr. Chairman, members of the the commission. We have a presentation. I'll be respectful of your time and get through it quickly. Uh a little bit about us. We specialize in impact fees and fiscal and economic impact analysis. We're based in Bethesda, Maryland, and Boise, Idaho, and we've done quite a bit of work in the state of Florida, particularly as it relates to school impact fees. Um in terms of the methodology, uh we have three components as part of this study. Uh we have the construction of
additional classroom space, a land component, and also a component for buses. Uh we took the incremental expansion or consumption-based approach, which is the standard approach for impact fee. It's very formulaic in terms of how it defines levels of service. It looks at what is the average square footage of a classroom. Our students seed at the elementary, middle, and high school levels. What does it cost us to build additional square foot of space? What does it cost us to buy an acre of land, et cetera? And as you probably are aware from other impact fee discussions for
the county's impact fee is that you know one of the things we have to guard against with the impact fee is new development paying twice, once through the impact fee, and then again through other forms of revenue. And so we do have three credits uh baked into the methodology: that is the future payments on existing debt, uh future penny for Pasco sells tax revenue, and then future local. capital improvement millage that would be used for capital expenditures related to school capacity. Uh you know part of the the showing that we're
establishing the nexus is we have to show that the school district has been growing in terms of enrollment and that growth is going to continue. Uh if you see here at the bottom table, we are projecting an additional thirteen thousand seven hundred students over the next ten years within the school system. Uh we also have to determine what the demand is from different housing units, and so we Calculate what we call pupil generation rates or student generation rates, and those are shown at the top of the table. And those are that those numbers are based on
geocoded data from the school district's GIS system. And as is the case in most communities we work with around the country, single-family units generate a higher number of students than mobile homes and multifamily units. That is the case here. As you can see, a single family unit generates about 0.385 students. So in other words, what that means is for every 100 new housing units, you just expect to generate about 39 additional public school students.
So this table is a little bit outdated given the date of our study. I think there's an additional school that's being contemplated, but at the time of the study there were 4,160 additional planned student stations over the next five years.
Now what we do with that is we look at those enrollment projections you saw on the previous slide and plug in those additional student stations to look at what is our enrollment to capacity at the end of the 10-year period. And even with the planned student stations at the K-8 level, the district would still be at 99% of its capacity at the end of the 10 years. Although there are not additional student stations planned in the next four to five years at the high school level, it is clear from this
table that there will have to be additional student stations in years five through ten because you can see here that the high school level will be at 100% of its available capacity at the end of the 10-year period.
So here we're going to talk about the fact the cost factors used in the analysis for land rather than speculate on what the district would have to spend on land in the future. We look at past purchases, which total 200, you have 237 acres at a total cost of about 14.2 million dollars, and that's results in a weighted cost per acre of $59,000. Mm-hmm. We also look at recent construction costs
for four different projects and we get a weighted average of $361 a square foot.
Unidentified speakerVoice G
Yeah.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
And then we also look at uh what is the inventory of the district buses and what does it cost us to to buy a bus in today's dollars and we get our cost per student that way.
So this table here summarizes the factors that you've seen in the in the other in the previous slides. Working our way from the top, we see the student generation rates, and then we apply those cost factors for the construction cost per student, the land cost per student, the bus cost per student to get that gross capital cost you see in the middle. Then we deduct from from that cost those credits to get our net costs uh per per student at 37,450 at the K through A level and then 30,731
at the 9 through 12 level.
So this table shows the maximum supportable fees in green. You may be aware that there were some changes to the state's impact fee statute three or four years ago, which limits the increases in fees to 50% unless you go through a process called demonstrating extraordinary circumstances. As you can see here, that the total fee for single fee. family exceeds the 50%. So we're statutorily limited to $12,492.
Then at the multifamily it's $6576 in a mobile home, the statutory limit is $6,666.
This shows the proposed fees, which the single family is is less than the the uh the stat or the the maximum supportable. Uh again, the changes to the Impact Fee Act uh state that any increase above between 25 and 50 percent has to be implemented in four equal increments. Uh so this shows the proposed uh uh implementation schedule for all three housing types. And in year four, uh it would res it would uh kick into the multi or the maximum amount of or the recommended amount
of $12,328, $6,389 at multifamily, and $64.77 for the mobile home units. And with that, I'm happy to uh answer any questions that you may have about the study.
OakleyChair
Any questions for the board?
Yeager
I just want to see the slide again where it um had the different cost per square foot for the different locations because I missed that one.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Hopefully I'll kick back in here. Nope. Sorry. Okay, thank you. Thank you.
Yeah, it should be about five back, I think. Uh next one. No, no, go by the other way. There you go. Is this the slide you're referring to?
Yeager
Yeah.
Just curious, why why why is it such a big price difference?
Unidentified speakerVoice A
between
Yeager
but like when you take the two ninety four the four ninety
Unidentified speakerVoice A
right right and and uh I may beg assistance from staff but uh in our experience it's cheaper to to build a complete school because you've got a bigger footprint and it also includes you know the the athletic complexes those facilities where if you're doing an an addition it's a more com it's a more concentrated uh effort and it doesn't have those other elements that sort of bring down the weighted cost per per square foot. So typically additions tend to be more per square foot in our experience than
an entire school.
Paula Baracaldo
Thank you
Unidentified speakerVoice A
for the presentation.
Weightman
Any
OakleyChair
other questions?
Weightman
Thank you Chairman Mariano the the housing stock breakdown rates please
Unidentified speakerVoice A
You mean the student generation?
Weightman
No, the multifam, residential single fam and the last one? Mobile.
StarkeyVice Chair
It was close to land.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
The rates or the actual.
Weightman
So Is there a way to bump multifamily and decrease single family? And I say that because Live Local Act's looming out there. And it'll be there for a while. And I
I'm kind of of the of the mindset if Live Local Act is gonna be hanging over our head that we we bump these impact fee for all the multifamily product. We offset it. with the single family I I I'm generally I'm gonna speak gener generally a big picture of our overall impact fee. We keep pushing single family impact fee and increasing them to what they are uh I'm just it goes back to the affordability of the of of the single family
home and having families being able to afford a home and the potential erosion of the single family home ownership value that we all, I think in this room share. That's kind of a A a a a tough one there. So is there a way to bump the multifamily and decrease the single family? Mr. Chairman Mariano is
Unidentified speakerVoice F
complicated. Yes.
Yes, sir. Um no. Lifeline. Um the the problem is that the law with regard to impact fee and I'll let uh Mr. Bice elaborate a little bit, is that you have to treat all types equally. So he's done an in an an analysis. He has generated fees based on the impact of what those types of units generate. And so you while
you could lower them all At the same, you know, you could you could do eighty-five percent of value of of what the study showed. You can do a hundred percent. Then you have the state statute that kicks in, but you can't charge multifamily more to make up a decrease you want to have in single family. It that that will create a challenge point
for your impact fee as a whole, and uh it would not be my legal advice to do something like that.
Weightman
But you're saying we can't is what I'm kinda hearing. You you advise not to.
Unidentified speakerVoice F
No. My You can, you'll be challenged, you'll lose.
There's your choice. I mean that that when I say I advise it, that means that I don't think that there's a way that we can defend you on it. Um you can lower them all proportionally But then that's not gonna get the school district the amount of money that they have budgeted for their for uh their school construction. But you have to when you do that you've gotta do
them all at the same percentage. You can't pick and choose.
Unidentified speakerVoice H
Hmm.
Unidentified speakerVoice F
And we
Unidentified speakerVoice A
can't legally justify higher fees for multifamily mobile home. The number does I mean the the study doesn't support the money.
Mariano
Mr. Chairman Mari So one thing that could be a factor though that would you could justify if a apartment complex comes in and gets a seventy five percent tax break, you can justify there's a difference of What what the cost is that project coming in? So it may not have happened yet with one, but if one does come in, I think we should be able to... Find try to find a trigger for that, because it is a risky situation that's out there right now.
Unidentified speakerVoice F
Only if the school board is using taxes for construction.
It it would not you might be able to make that argument. But the dollars they are collecting for operations wouldn't be wouldn't be appropriate for impact fee anyway. So I you'd have to do You have to do a balancing of the construction dollars that their millage is going to.
Mariano
Agreed. So can you figure out how much construction dollars are going toward? the schools based upon this. It's
Unidentified speakerVoice A
gotta be a party factor in there in those conversations. That's that would vary on a case by case basis as well.
Weightman
Yeah. Mr. Gad said he wanted you to earn it today.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
And you've already credited the c the capital improvement millage within the fee study itself also. Or to discounted the fee based on that fee for streaming revenue.
StarkeyVice Chair
I I have a question on the multifamily. Um multifamily is apartments, townhomes, garden homes?
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Town home technically is a single family attached unit. So single family was detached an attached unit, so a town home would be part of that.
Paula Baracaldo
Oh interesting.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Yeah. So it's duplexes, apartments. Condominiums because condominiums are technically a
StarkeyVice Chair
duplex is a
Unidentified speakerVoice A
multifamily.
StarkeyVice Chair
But an attached townhome which
Unidentified speakerVoice A
has
StarkeyVice Chair
to
Unidentified speakerVoice A
do not have a duplex. Has to do with the census definition and whether they share a common of wall or not. And your ordinance will define the different types of park towns are flat. Yeah.
StarkeyVice Chair
So uh and on a on multifamily, do we distinguish between studio and three bedroom or is it averaged out?
Unidentified speakerVoice A
The average the average unit size or the average unit.
StarkeyVice Chair
So you take you add up how many three bedrooms there are and how many students. It doesn't matter
Unidentified speakerVoice A
if it's one bedroom or three bedrooms, it's the same rate for the student.
StarkeyVice Chair
Well how legally they get away with that? Because the studio is probably doesn't have any kids where a three bedroom does. So legally how do you
Unidentified speakerVoice A
justify it? There is no problem uh legally. It's it's more of a you know the courts fall on the reasonableness test and some jurisdictions t choose to to do impact fees by size of home or number of bedrooms. Some choose to do the traditional single family versus multifamily versus mobile home. So fees are done both ways. It's just a matter of preference.
Mariano
Mr. Chairman Mariano. Yes. So to try to dissect this would be really tough. To try to fight it would be even tougher. Probably take more time and money. I think the key would be that we we unite with the school board to go fight this live local in the future.
StarkeyVice Chair
I was just trying to get educated. Uh well I would say that um I think I haven't received one letter, one call from anybody, uh in opposition to this. Um I think we have a great working relationship with our school board, unlike some others. And um I I like the way that this is broken out in four years and I think, you know, the work's been done for us and I think we should move for approval. Mr. Chairman Mariano for the I'll
Mariano
move I'll second for the
StarkeyVice Chair
more discussion.
Weightman
There's no action today.
StarkeyVice Chair
Oh no action today?
OakleyChair
No, there's action today. No, there is action, but you gotta wait. Okay.
Unidentified speakerVoice I
Well their chair wants to speak and then we have public comments. Thank you. I appreciate it. Good afternoon, as mentioned. I am Megan Harding. I do serve as the Chair of the Pasco County School Board. We are very grateful for all the support you have given us in the past, and I appreciate you allowing and giving me the time to speak this afternoon. This afternoon I wanted to take a few moments and make some comments on the impact fee proposal. This increase will assist us in keeping up with the construction costs in our ever-growing school district, and as you know our county is growing at a very rapid rate, so this would assist us in that. The impact fee will also allow the
school district to balance new schools to support new growth while allowing us to renovate our existing school with penny funds. Both of these are equally important. The Planning Commission voted unanimously to support this proposal as well, and we're very grateful for that. The board wanted to take a moment to thank the Tampa Bay Builders Association for their support and strong stance that good schools build good communities. We have worked together with the Phase and Approach over four years so there is not a huge jump all at once. Again, on behalf of the County County on behalf of the Pasco County School Board, we appreciate your support so we can
continue to serve our communities and provide the world-class education that all our students in our community deserve. Thanks.
OakleyChair
Okay, thank you. And this is a public hearing. Does anyone else in the audience wish to speak to this item today? And there's no action required today on this item.
Unidentified speakerVoice F
This is your first of two public hearing. It looks like from I'll have to get Terry or somebody to confirm. It looks like your second hearing is on August twenty first. twenty twenty four at New in New Port Richey at one thirty or soon thereafter is
Mariano
Mr. Chairman? Yes. Just a one further point. The the key to this is not it's not a tax on people living here, it's a tax on keep people coming in, so it's making growth pay for itself. Right.
OakleyChair
It's kinda like our we're buying new homes that's on those properties, so as we grow.
Okay. Um anything else from the board?
No action is required. No one come forward to speak. Anybody on Webex to speak to Sir?
StarkeyVice Chair
No, sir.
3Aug 21, 2024
Board of County CommissionersP58Public hearingNo disposition in the minutes
Open this item →
19m
OakleyChair
Okay. I'll work. Uh now I get to apologize again to you. Uh I apologize that we put that in front of your item. Sure. So now we get to call you back up on uh we're gonna go for item P fifty eight.
OakleyChair
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh Nictorios Pitos, Planning Development, Economic Growth. Item P58 is PEG 240396. It is an ordinance by the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners. Amending the Pasco County Land Development Code, providing for amendments to section 1302.3 school impact fee to make such section consistent with the 2024 school impact fee study and to adopt such study to increase the amount of school impact fee, providing for additional amendments as necessary to ensure internal consistency, providing for applicability,
repeal, or severability, inclusion into the land development code, modification, and an effective date. This comes to you with the recommendation of adoption of the proposed ordinance by roll call vote, and Mr. Rayette is here to speak to the item.
Unidentified speakerVoice J
And we have proof of publication of the hearing of this matter in the Tampa Bay Times July 10th and July 28, 2024.
StarkeyVice Chair
Okay.
Unidentified speakerVoice J
All right.
Raymond Gadd
Rig Gadd, Deputy Superintendent of Schools, [address removed]. Before before I jump into impact fee, if I could I'd like to go back to the previous moment and make a quick comment. One of the people that's on your staff that has always been He doesn't know it, but a mentor to me and uh an incredibly helpful person. sharp on the details a and patient with me, especially when I was younger in my career was David Goldstein. And
I wanna thank him for being a partner with us on a lot of projects.
Uh relative to the impact fee, I'd like to make a couple comments. I know this is the second reading. I also know that Tom Weibert was here this morning to talk about impact fee relative to kind of the big picture. Um the district school board is not ignorant about the total amount of impact fee, not just our impact fee, your impact fee. We have one impact fee, and that's an impact fee to build houses. And as David will tell you, uh the district school board.
never comes back in for a cost of living index because we're trying to keep our fees down. And every time that we do come back in for an impact fee, I always call David and he'll tell you that. And I say, David, do y'all have any impact fee coming up in the county? 'Cause I don't want to get in your way 'cause I know they're important to you. And in fact, probably six months ago, maybe seven months ago, I called Mr. Carvalho and I told him the same thing. I said, What do you guys get going on? 'Cause we don't want to get in your way. We know
That those are important, that they're kind of the lifeblood for your system. So we have tried to keep our impact fee down by not doing cost of living indexes, which might have been a mistake because Um then the state came along and put into law that you can only raise impact fee every four years. So we kind of got hammered in that legislation. But we're very, very sensitive to the fact that Young people want to buy homes. And so we try to keep our impacts as low as we
can. But we also know that young people want good schools for their kids. And so that in buying that home, they're looking for good schools and schools that aren't crowded and schools that have professional teachers. The public in Pasco County has recognized that as well. They came out and supported The latest penny was for fifteen years Uh they've also they've done this three times now, twice for ten, one for fifteen. Um they've also supported us in our efforts to raise teacher
salaries. So we feel like the public in general is happy with their public school system. and that they want to see us continue to build good schools and deal with overcrowding. Um We didn't put on the agenda the impact fee study because we gave it to you last time, but if anybody needs it, we have extra copies here that we can distribute. That said I think all of you recognize we have school board members here, Cynthia Armstrong, Megan Harding, an X
one who I guess just can't stay away, Alan Altman.
StarkeyVice Chair
He was here for your resolution.
Raymond Gadd
And um of course my team, which you all know, Betsy Kuhn, Chris Williams. And so as a team, we're willing to answer any additional questions you might have for us. Thank you very much. Okay.
OakleyChair
Any questions from the
Yeager
board? Nope, just that you missed Al Hernandez over there. Oh, Al Hernandez.
Raymond Gadd
He wasn't here at the last one, so he came to this one. So
StarkeyVice Chair
Um I I would just say that um it's a pleasure when uh a county commission and a school school district gets along so well and it benefits um our citizens greatly and I think it shows in the quality of life that we're offering here in Pasco County and the quality of our schools. And you know, we're not insensitive to the cost that Everything we Um has a ripple effect. But we, you know, we have these responsibilities. And if you were
to go to Flor how Florida counties compare and look to see where we are in the rankings of what it costs for you to live here in Pasco County, you would see we are just doing tremendously against our peers. So we're still a very affordable, well-reported. Run. system here and I'm I'm really proud of all the work we do together. And this is important, I'll be supporting it.
Weightman
Mr. Weightman, thank you, Chair. For overall big picture discussion. uh kind of a bit of a difference of opinion on affordability in Pasco County today. Our impact fee today is thirty thousand four hundred and forty dollars.
On the highest zone, A, B, and C. And when we add this over the next four years, it will compound over $34,000 and the other impact fees that this board is looking at coming down the line. gonna be approaching probably the forty thousand dollar mark, which is more money than some folks make a year. And I'm concerned with our fee structure that it's going to a road away the opportunity of home ownership for folks. And um as much as it it's
important to balance what our schools need and the needs of of everyone else. I just want to put it put into perspective that Our impact fee are are starting to be pretty heavy and going up and going up and going up and spoke with Mr. Karbala about this, about taking a look at the zones and and just different ways of restructuring, and I think we need to have a workshop or whatever the process is sooner than later. as prices keep going up, whether people can afford a home or split up some property and have another family
homestead. We we think a lot of all the new folks coming in, but there's a lot of folks in Pasco County who who are are here and looking to upgrade what what they're currently doing. And so as much as I appreciate the study of the school system um in the work that they do, uh instead of phasing in four thousand dollars over a period of time. I've kind of landed on a two thousand dollar immediate impact To try to hold hold something down. I I wish
in the i for our staff and the timing of this, schools to me are a bit more important than our parks. and we just approved a thirty five hundred dollar impact fee for our parks. I'd have much rather seen the school impact fee come forward and weighed that heavier than parks. And so as we go through this budget cycle, uh we talk about the the the potential the the parks tax, won't we have to restructure that and maybe find a way to back down that parks impact fee and offset that some way and give more to the schools? We're just gonna,
you know, in short order the impact fee's gonna get pretty pretty darn heavy. And uh I'm just Mm. concerned. concerned about that. So
OakleyChair
Well the talk on some of that, the uh impact fee that
More and more people are moving into Florida, moving into Pasco County, and with that uh there's a demand on schools to be get bigger and better. And there's there's been issues of start of the school this year that I've I've heard from different schools that it's gotten a little bit better but The older schools haven't uh been engineered to handle a lot of the stacking of cars. A lot of people are being delivered in cars now where they weren't before. and they're not riding buses like they used to, but the older schools
have been all over the all over the county. have been affected by l more and more car traffic. And the new schools and I talked to Ray about this last week, the new schools are being engineered to handle the stacking of cars for they have that delivery and that pickup.
primarily
Raymond Gadd
responsible for making sure we do that.
OakleyChair
Yeah, he's uh he's a numbers man for sure, there without a doubt. He I thought he was a forensic attorney at one time, but he told me no, he just has to be able to substantiate everything that he says in numbers.
go forward with it. So And I appreciate that. He knows the numbers very well. And um But in fact the impact fee affecting more and more people coming to Florida is calling more and more demand, not not only on schools but also our parks. So we see that across the county. And and the new people coming in. They're bringing more and more kids and We've gotta be able to handle it 'cause I can tell you what, they're not coming in here if they don't have the activities and the schools for their children to go to and good schools. uh they wouldn't
be coming here. So we've had a a good system here in Pasco County with schools and uh teach the education of these kids. And that's part of why people are coming here. So These impact fee are affecting those mainly those people that buy a new home or do these things. Those are those prices are gonna be in there. But uh that's just part of what you got to do and it's gonna happen in the future if you decide to change from one house to go to a larger home and you build it, you're gonna have to pay that impact 'cause
you're actually putting a new homestead in a a new place. So We all have to pay our part as we go. So Anyone else wanna go to the right-of-way.
Yeager
Yeah, I just Ms. Yeager. I agree with um Commissioner Weightman with the you know, schools are top priority. We've gotta make sure we get our money to schools and um I agree maybe back off the parks a little bit because um we we just can't be hammered by all these fees at once. 'Cause we also have the the MSTU for paving. And it's all gonna add up. But I am all for you guys.
OakleyChair
And our wreck and other issue on recreation. Their demand is so heavy on our uh sports complexes and all that that we had to have that impact be to be able to provide for children in the future. And let me tell you something, when you tell 'em there's no room for 'em to play on the field You got a real issue with your residents when you tell 'em that. So you gotta provide for that. It's a shame it has to be that way, but to do the right thing in the county you have to have money to do that. There's no other way to get that money, but those people coming in and bringing more students
and more uh people playing sports and things of this nature, we've gotta be able to provide that or I can tell you they expect that.
Raymond Gadd
So My daughter's a soccer mom. She can tell you all about it. Oh
OakleyChair
yeah, I'm sure.
Yeager
And
OakleyChair
we've had a lot of discussions about soccer and and other sports.
Yeager
Maybe would you guys be willing to open like your outdoor basketball courts and stuff like that in the afternoon for the
Raymond Gadd
Things that that I did when I was Ms. Starkey's handler that um We worked hard on joint use projects and of course the Starkey K through eight is a joint use project. Now they're tough. We're working out kinks, you know, because there are kinks about when people use it and stuff. But when you innovate, there are always, always issues that pop up that you didn't see coming. Um David Goldstein and I wrote the master plan, mostly David, for the
Starkey K through eight and we tried to think of everything we could and I don't know how many things have come up since then, David, that we
StarkeyVice Chair
have a meeting coming up. Okay, we're fine.
Raymond Gadd
That's right. So we're always open to talking to the county. And right now I think we have three or four schools. schools that the county is using Bayonet Point, Longleaf, uh Cloak. I think there's one more. Chris, do you know? Trader. where we're sharing our playgrounds and ball fields and we're certainly open to doing more of that.
OakleyChair
I thought Star uh is Starkey one of those too? I mean we do a lot of things there with Starkey with a library and all that
Raymond Gadd
it was kind of built that way.
OakleyChair
Yeah, that's right. So that that's been good and it's been a good partnership for the county with the school board. Very much so. All right.
Mr. Chairman Mariano. Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead, Jack.
Mariano
Thank you. Um The people that are moving in here are coming in for a quality of life. The people are expecting to keep things up to pi up to pace. The people already living here. Don't want to be paying the bill for those people that are coming coming in. Right. Uh I've been a proponent of the impact fee.
really basically you've got to keep the schools going. You've got to keep them where they can put their infrastructure in place because that is the bottom line. And when you s so the schools are going and I'm happy to m to know that we've made so many improvements on co-location. Commissioner Starkey you and I talked about that for twenty years now. And it's getting better and better. We've got to keep it going that way as well. And Commissioner Oakley you bring up a good point. These new schools, they've also got to be able to take their traffic better because right now with the extra travel. travelers that are going into the schools it's backing up traffic on on major roadways all over the place. Right. So that's gotta that's gotta be addressed
as well. But uh you know when when the The Tampa Bay Builders Association steps up to say they can support a phasing in of it. of it, that's a good thing. Um if you want to take a look at the parks and maybe bring Bring it back to phase it in a little bit too. We could we could relook at that, but we've got to keep the fees going on both ends. Kids need the place to play. When you've got two kids that are actively going out there in in playing in sports, the tire they are when they get home, the better they sleep, the better they do in school, the better they perform across the board, and that's been proven everywhere. Uh
so quality of life is important. Impact fees are gonna make development pay for itself, and that's where it should fall, not the citizens that are living here right now.
OakleyChair
Okay.
StarkeyVice Chair
Well I just wanted to agree with you um on on how important it is and Lisa you haven't got those phone calls yet, but they're coming. for the parents whose kids want to play in sports and they can't because there's no fields. And we we've gotten that. Um there's no Little League fields, there's no football fields, there's no and now we have other sports coming. We've got lacrosse, cricket's coming. So um Girls
Raymond Gadd
flag football
StarkeyVice Chair
Olympic sport. We we are we are decades behind in building our new parks, sadly. Um but that you know that's what happened when we had the crash. uh in the early two thousands. Just so uh per capita total property tax levies for Pasco County. Now this is twenty two twenty three. The statewide average is two thousand. Pasco County is at one thousand one hundred and sixty-five. We're the eleventh largest county, I would say maybe soon to be tenth largest county. Um and we are forty
second. Um So we are way down the list on how mu what we do on the school district um levies Again, we are the 11th largest county in the state. Statewide average is 784. Pasco County is at four hundred and thirty-four. Dollars, where that's forty-fifth in the state. And the last one that I I think um always can be uh very interesting is um let's see I just took a picture of it so let me take let
me go there. Um And that is uh The oh I di I hid the title, but it's It's the amount of taxes we charge per, I think it's $1,000 of income. The state average is $33. And Pasco County is forty-fifth at twenty-three dollars and forty-four cents. So We're still fiscally conservative here. Um and I and I I get what you're saying.
It's Because I've I have kids who wanna buy a home. It's harder and harder to buy a home, but if you're living here And you're in a home. You're get you're getting pretty good bang for your buck. Though I know things are getting harder and harder, inflation's killing everybody, but We just have to have schools and um I would make the motion to approve the school board impact fee. Public hearing.
OakleyChair
Oh public hearing. Okay. All right. Uh It is a public hearing. I'd like to ask if there's anyone here that wishes to speak to this item.
Unidentified speakerVoice J
We have no one signed up.
OakleyChair
Anyone in the audience? Anybody on WebEx?
Unidentified speakerVoice J
Uh no sir.
OakleyChair
Okay. Having no one, then entertain a motion.
StarkeyVice Chair
I I do want to say we did get a letter uh from the Tampa Bay Builders Association in support of the um school board's initiative and they appreciate that they have phased this in um over four years to um to help. And so with that I make the motion to approve.
Mariano
Okay. I have a motion. And I'm gonna second the motion with let's just a little Okay. I've got
OakleyChair
a second.
Mariano
Just as you take a look in the room there's nobody here opposing this because the people gonna pay it aren't here. And I will tell you in all my years.
They wonder how we get our things paid for. And they look at our fees. How's that going? How's it going? And again with Tampa Bay Builders Association saying they're okay with this, they're graduated with the phase in, uh it tells you that they know we gotta pay for it. And if there's one one lady years ago told me she had just moved from Hillsborough up to Pasco. And the reason she moved, she's she knew that we had impact fee in place and we have schools well built for our kids as they were growing up.
OakleyChair
Right. Okay. I got a uh motion and a second. Is this roll call? Yes sir.
Unidentified speakerVoice J
District 2, Commissioner Weightman. A respectful nay. District three, Commissioner Starkey.
Yeager
Aye.
Unidentified speakerVoice J
District four, Commissioner Yeager.
Yeager
Aye.
Unidentified speakerVoice J
District five, Commissioner Mariano. Aye. District one, Chairman Oakley. Aye.
OakleyChair
Motion passed four to one. Okay. Yeah move on to uh P59.