PEG-24-7726

Every appearance4 of 4 are in a recording

Each appearance carries the official title above. Where the county’s wording changed, the change is marked: added and removed. Steps with no marks were worded identically.

TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 74% of 303 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.

1. 1Mar 12, 2024
   Board of County CommissionersP63Public hearingContinued

   Zoning Amendment (Continuance) (Regular) – Cherry Hills West … Family Detached Dwelling Units on 34.07 Acres

   Approved minutes

   Approved to continue the item to the April 10, 2024 Board of County Commissioners meeting at 1:30 p.m. in Dade City by a roll call vote.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 29:25
   ▶ 29:252m

   Denise

   29:25Can we move to P sixty three, please?

   Kathryn Starkey

   29:28Alright.

   29:31So P63 was advertised in the Tampa Bay Times October eighteenth, twenty twenty-three, and by affidavit of certified mailings and site postings. Uh this item was continued from the December 5th and January 9th meeting to today.

   Denise

   29:45Item P63 is PEG 247726 Zoning Amendment, Cherry Hills West MPUD, Master Plan Unit Development, Veterans of War and Wars of U.S. Major Francis E. Dade, Post 4283, and others. The applicant has requested a continuance to the April 10th, 2024, Board of County Commissioners at 1.30 PM in Dade City. If you would please call for public comment. To see if there's anyone here to speak on the matter, please.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   30:12This one was not advertised as a continuance on your agenda. Um so is the normal practice. I would recommend that you take public comment from anyone in the audience who wishes to speak who may not attend the New continuance tape. Okay. If they choose to speak today, they can't speak when it comes back.

   Ron OakleyChair

   30:34Right. Anyone wish to speak today on this item or wait till it comes back?

   30:41See you no one?

   Kathryn Starkey

   30:42Uh sir. There there were two individuals signed up for P63. Eric, they're still not there though? Correct. Okay. Never mind.

   Jack Mariano

   30:50Okay. Move to continue time certain? Second.

   Kathryn Starkey

   30:54I'm under discussion. I just want to make sure that we're reserving right away across the front for a multi-use path.

   Ron OakleyChair

   31:10A roll c road call vote.

   Kathryn Starkey

   31:12Okay, District Two, Commissioner Weightman. District three, Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District four, Commissioner Bradford.

   31:21Well. District five, Commissioner Mariano. District one Chairman Oakley.

2. 2Apr 10, 2024
   Board of County CommissionersP46Public hearingContinued

   Approved minutes

   Approved to continue the item to the May 7, 2024 Board of County Commissioners meeting at 1:30 p.m. in Dade City.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 43:23
   ▶ 43:23under a minute

   Kathryn Starkey

   43:23Item P forty six was published in the Tampay Times on March 20, 2024. P forty-six

   Denise

   43:28is PEG 247726, zoning amendment, the name of Cherry Hills West, MP Mass Planning and Development, Veterans of Foreign Wars of U.S. Major Francis E. Dade, Post 4283, and others. The request is to continue the item to the May 7th, 2024 Board of County Commissioners meeting at 130 in Dade City. City.

   Ron OakleyChair

   43:47Move to continue time shortly.

   Denise

   43:49Second.

3. 3May 7, 2024
   Board of County CommissionersP65Public hearingContinued

   Zoning Amendment (Continuance) (Regular) – Cherry Hills West … Units on 34.07 Acres

   Approved minutes

   Approved to continue the item to the June 4, 2024 Board of County Commissioners meeting at 1:30 p.m. in Dade City.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 11:01
   ▶ 11:019m

   Denise

   11:01Mr. Chair, can we please move on to item P65?

   Ron OakleyChair

   11:08This is our first consent item.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   11:10No. P sixty five is the zoning item regular Cherry Hills West, which I understand is also being continued. That's why.

   11:24Uh Mr. Chairman, this is was advertised for action um but has been requested to be continued by the applicant if any uh as is the normal process that I recommend you take public comment if the public cannot attend the June fourth meeting that this is being continued to. Um, if they choose to speak today, they waive their right to speak on the fourth.

   Ron OakleyChair

   11:50Uh uh Mr. Chair, I do have two people that have signed up to speak on this item.

   Ron OakleyChair

   11:56We have folks signed up to speak to this item?

   Ron OakleyChair

   11:58Yes, sir.

   Ron OakleyChair

   11:59We do?

   Ron OakleyChair

   11:59We do.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   12:00Okay. Um Well did you you need you still need to do now? Um

   12:10Publication. Yes.

   Ron OakleyChair

   12:11Item P uh sixty five was published in the Tampa Times on march twentieth, twenty twenty four, and by affidavit of certified mailings and site postings.

   Denise

   12:20I'm going to read the item title. It's PEG 247726, a zoning amendment, Cherry Hills West MPUD, Master Planning Unit Development, Veterans of Foreign Wars of U.S. Major Francis E. Dade Post, 4283, and others. It's for a rezoning from an AR agricultural residential district to an MPUD Master Planning Unit Development District to allow for the maximum development of 160 single-family detached dwelling units on approximately 34.078. Makers on this item. There are ex parte communications for all commissioners. That one

   12:50is from May 3rd, 24, one is from January 23rd, 2024, and there's also ex parte with Commissioners Oakley and Commissioner Weightman, and those are from 1/12 of 2023. I will, to the extent that those have not been provided to the clerk's office, we will. do that after this meeting or during this the meeting's time. And the applicant has requested a continuance to the June 4th, 2024 Board of County Commissioners meeting at 130 in Dane City.

   Ron OakleyChair

   13:20Okay. This item's gonna be continued to June 20th. June fourth, twenty twenty four. Do those that are signed up for this item do they wish to speak today or are they willing to wait and speak on June 4th?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   13:37I would rather do for that.

   Ron OakleyChair

   13:40Okay if you speak today you cannot speak on on June 4th. You understand?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   13:45I just

   Ron OakleyChair

   13:46Okay. Come forward.

   13:56Okay. Name and address for the record and if you've been sworn.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   14:00Yes, I have been. Andrew Renner, [address removed]. I'm going to read this to try to get through this in my three minutes. My wife and my kids could not come, but imploring you as a longtime Pasco resident not to approve Cherry Hills as it's been improved uh been requested in its current density. Um you know local leaders. Paul Renner is a family member of mine, Speaker of the House. I know Many of you know Walt Simpson, they've talked about recently, protecting our Florida land, developing it responsibly. When

   14:30we moved to Pasco County almost 20 years ago, we fell in love with the am the just the beautiful hillsides, we call it Tree City, uh open spaces, vibrant places. Everything we love about it, you know, we purchased the land and the home. Well we live on Cross Road. It was zoned AG residential. Everyone around us has property. No one has huge subdivisions around us. People have horses, chickens, livestock, different things. It really to

   15:00us is like Vedford Falls. It's like a wonderful life. Okay? The the high density that they're proposing with area doesn't fit into the area. Okay. You know, why why are we just giving to what the developers want? Why are we not requesting them to be lower density? People would still come, they would still love the area like we do. But it it just seems like when it's requested that that is what happens. You know, so to us, and and I speak for my wife, my family, my My kids, other neighbors who can't come

   15:30because it's in the middle of the day and and many of us are working. Right, is that they agree that this does not fit into the community and for us We're already there's already proposal on the other side of this so if this goes through we're going to be surrounded on three sides by hundreds of homes Hundreds of homes So we would ask at least we have setbacks, we have some type of a wall, some type of protection from the noise and the development. Very similar when in

   16:00Fort Kings Estate. Many of you probably know about that, right? Crime has gone up since then. We've even been personally affected by someone coming through our property to go to Fort King Estates. My wife didn't feel safe, and those are the kind of things that are happening because of that. We love Florida, specifically our area of Florida. We just asked that you would not vote as a currently being proposed. Trying to stay within my three minutes here. I'm cutting out most of this. So please do

   16:30not approve it, or if we do approve it, please reduce the density, make them put up some kind of buffers and protection for those of us that live here. We're the people that have voted, right, to put y'all in the positions, and I feel like you know we need to make sure that we're being represented as well, not just future residents of of this development and other developments of Pasco County.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   16:51Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   16:53Any questions for me? I know I read that

   Ron OakleyChair

   16:55real

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   16:55fast.

   Ron OakleyChair

   16:55We don't talk back at

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   16:56all. Oh you don't? Okay. No. Okay. Thank you.

   Ron OakleyChair

   17:01Thank you. Anyone else to speak today on this item?

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   17:10Hello, my name's Terry Saxon. I reside at [address removed]. I have to agree with the gentleman. Uh I too have

   Ron OakleyChair

   17:20been sworn here. You've been sworn? Did you did

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   17:24you get sworn in? Yes, I'll

   17:25be right back.

   17:25Okay. It just has to be on the record. Thank you. Yes. Sorry about that. You may start. This is kinda new to me, but Uh I've kind of been out of the loop because we were recovering from a hurricane at my business. But nevertheless, I agree a hundred percent with what he said. I told the city commission the same thing. People move up here and it's for our homes. We spent our last retirement dollar to be able to have a home that we can stay in and we have woods and Dade City's known as the tree tree city. Um and you have developers just coming in and and popping up anywhere and anywhere because it's all about The money

   17:55and again it's no consideration to the people that's already here. Cherry Hill specifically, I would like to know if there is an on the record, if there is an egress, ingress, other than the one coming up by the BFW on uh BFW Drive, because I've seen plans or something that are first if originally it was. fictitious and now it's being said that they're going to come across our easement for our neighborhood and our community, which

   18:26I would strongly recommend our s our request that you folks deny.

   18:35And that's really all I gotta say. It's it's just ongoing. Everywhere you turn it's it's coming up. I don't know if anybody's doing anything with the infrastructures. You know, I thought Zephyrhills was out of order. So, uh, you know, obviously that's a big issue and there's some people that they don't care what it takes to get it done, whether they tell the truth or not. But There's some of us seniors that have been here. We love our we love our property. We love being in Florida. We moved I was in Lakeland. I moved out of there 'cause it's gone nuts, but um Um Please consider the people around you. You know, if

   19:05they want to go in a pasture out there where it doesn't inflict on anybody, more power to you. But please consider the people that they're infringing on and uh encroaching on. When we we abide by the rules, we abide by the ordinances when we bought the property and intend to do so in the future and would really love if they did the same. Thank you.

   Ron OakleyChair

   19:24Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   19:25Thank you.

   Ron OakleyChair

   19:27Does anyone in the audience wish to speak to this item?

   Ron OakleyChair

   19:32Mr. Chair, I have no one on WebEx for this item.

   Ron OakleyChair

   19:34Nobody on WebEx. Okay. Now I entertain a motion for continuance. Move it continued time circumstances. Second. We got a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Motion pass 3-0. Now what number are we on?

4. 4Jun 4, 2024
   Board of County CommissionersP59Public hearingContinued

   Zoning Amendment (Continuance) (Regular) – Cherry Hills West … Dade Post 4283 et al/ al. – A Rezoning Request … Units on 34.07 Acres

   Approved minutes

   Approved to continue the item to a date uncertain until the water and wastewater agreement was in place.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 1:53:18
   ▶ 1:53:1842m

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   1:53:18Item P59 was published in the Tampe Times on March 20, 24, and by affidavit of certified mailings and site postings. The item was continued from the April 10th, 2024 BCC meeting to the May 7, 2024 BCC meeting, where it was continued to today.

   Planning and Development staff

   1:53:34Good afternoon, William Vermillion Planning and Economic Growth. This is item PEG 247726, the Cherry Hills West MPD. Uh this board has heard this MPD before and we've made several modifications before coming back to the board.

   1:53:51She might be here.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   1:54:23Are you waiting for us?

   Planning and Development staff

   1:54:25No, we're having some technical difficulties.

   Seth Weightman

   1:54:33Geez two.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   1:54:37Three?

   1:54:41Well shift change.

   Planning and Development staff

   1:54:47You guys want to talk about P Vases some more?

   1:54:52We don't have time.

   Jason Mickle

   1:54:53Yeah.

   Planning and Development staff

   1:54:55Perfect.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:54:56I think there's a sheriff back there.

   1:54:59Alright,

   Planning and Development staff

   1:55:00well I guess that's all my time. Two hours. Yeah. Perfect. Alright, looks like uh are we good to go? Perfect. Alright, here is the overall location map in Pasco County, just outside of Dade City. on County Road 52. The current zoning is AR Agriculture Residential. They're proposing to go to Master Plan Unit Development for the maximum development of 160 single family detached units. Previously They had

   1:55:29come in for Forty foot lots and after some discussions with commissioners they have upped that that overall lot size to a minimum of 50 feet. And this is on approximately 34 acres, 275 feet south of County Rook 52. Here's that aerial location map. Showing it just south of County Road 52 along VFW Road. The current zoning map reflecting AR. It's west of the fair ground

   1:56:00so you know where it's at.

   1:56:06Here is an overall contextual map with the subject site in red showing the school over to the west and the future Orange Belt Trail to the north along the south side of County Road 52. And I would like to point out that there is sufficient right-of-way that has already been given from County Road 52 to accomplish that trail. Here is the revised master plan. You'll notice that the lot layouts have changed a little bit since the overall lot sizes have gotten bigger.

   1:56:36And this overall master plan change has allowed for there to be a connection internally. If you see the orange belt line, that is an internal pathway that will lead the residents out to the future Orangebelt Trail on County Road 52 past the VFW. It also activates the uh the retention ponds is as an active green space. And with that, that comes to you with a recommendation of approval with conditions from the Planning Commission

   1:57:07as well as the Planning and Economic Growth Department. I'm here if anyone has any questions.

   Ron OakleyChair

   1:57:16Have water and sewer on this property.

   Planning and Development staff

   1:57:18Absolutely. So Absolutely. No, no. So absolutely I will address that concern. Okay. So I I know that there has been some utilities concerns with this project, and we have modified condition number thirty in this MPUD, which states that the applicant, prior to any submittal of site plans, has to demonstrate to the county that they have sufficient capacity in a form acceptable to the county from date city prior to that submittal. I have included as exhibit A in this agenda packet

   1:57:50a form that was unacceptable to the county previously as well as email conversations indicating as such.

   Ron OakleyChair

   1:57:58Yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   1:58:03I have

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   1:58:03a question. I can't tell it on here, but um if you could remind me the property that's just to the north, is that commercial or or residential? You see that property with the park?

   Planning and Development staff

   1:58:15Yes, ma'am, that is uh that's currently zoned uh C two. I've actually been in contact with Mr. Jim. He's reached out to me during this rezoning process for wanting to do something with his own property when this comes in.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   1:58:27Okay, so h w so how do you do the buffering there? I mean what do we have to do?

   Planning and Development staff

   1:58:32It it would just be what whatever the LDC tables say commercial and residential need to be to be buffered. I don't remember off the top of my head exactly which type of buffer that would be.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   1:58:43Type D or I don't know. I saw I know Brad's here. So from residential to commercial. It's what, twelve feet or?

   Planning and Development staff

   1:58:53So I

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   1:58:53mean is is there gonna be a fence there or a masonry fence or a vinyl fence?

   Planning and Development staff

   1:59:03But whenever the applicant comes in, uh per their conditions they have to comply with the L D C for any buffering that they do on the LC. So they will

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   1:59:10have to they will

   Planning and Development staff

   1:59:11they they'll be constructing the buffering if they're the right-of-way. Why why does

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   1:59:14the other one have to construct it? Why would these guys not have to construct it?

   Planning and Development staff

   1:59:18I I don't believe he has an existing business on it right now. Uh it's not it's not developed.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   1:59:24Denise is behind you. Denise, do they have to put a b who puts the buffer in? The residential to the commercial or the commercial

   Denise

   1:59:32I don't know who this should answer. I'm going to answer this question for Brad unless I don't see him coming up here.

   1:59:40So basically your applicant today is going to be the applicant today, if this is approved and once the applicant goes through the prel preliminary development plan for their project, they will have to install a buffer. That's what I thought. As as uh Mr. V Vermilion was expecting. explaining the parcel to the north is zone commercial from what he was explaining C2. but they're not developing it currently. Oh I'm not going to be able to do so when they develop it they will be required to a s also install buffering in accordance with the

   2:00:10land development code for the for the use.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   2:00:14Okay.

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:00:15Okay.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:00:16Did did that answer the question? Yeah, I just want to make sure the applicant knows they have to buffer. Yes.

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:00:21Any other questions? Yes, for Mr. Whiteon.

   Seth Weightman

   2:00:23I don't I don't necessarily have any questions. We spent I think we've seen this item several times. I'm still not comfortable with the level of density on this on this on this lot, especially 'cause we don't have sewer. Um and the neighboring properties are much larger residential lots. So I just think the density for for this particular project and not having a commitment to at least having sewer It's too high. I'd be

   2:00:53comfortable with half the density as it stands today. Um

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:00:59Don't they have to have sewer? Did I decide?

   Seth Weightman

   2:01:01We confirm we're sitting in Bay City and

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:01:04Well they can't have septic on lots that size, so what's the story?

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:01:10It won't go forward until they are available.

   Planning and Development staff

   2:01:12Right. They they ca they cannot submit site plans until they acquire capacity from Date City. So the essentially they'll get this rezoning done and it'll just sit in limbo until they get that capacity and either they get it or this MPUD would expire in six years and they have to come back in for another rezoning.

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:01:28I just have a problem with with approving a project. When it doesn't have water and sewer. available at this time. And somehow that slips through the Fingers of somebody on staff or whatever. Hopefully not. But it could slip through and get approved and and not necessarily have sewer and water and

   2:01:53I I just have a problem approving it without sewer and water being available.

   2:01:59And I know that the city's working on it, but it's it's not available at this time.

   Seth Weightman

   2:02:06Yeah, Chair with today if we were to vote on it today I would be comfortable supporting essentially you know half of what's being proposed here. Yeah. That's why I would support this as of today. Okay

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:02:18this Mr. Engel?

   David Engel

   2:02:22I I just thought David Engel, uh economic growth and planning director. So just to simplify things, uh Commissioner Weightman is proposing to decrease the density so the minimum lot size meets our land development code allowance and uh I mean septic and well, correct? So that that was the proposal to reduce the density to bring it into compliance. lines. Uh the density currently proposed is too dense for septic systems. So

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:02:53it

   David Engel

   2:02:53would

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:02:53move to what what density would allow sewer in and well R two?

   David Engel

   2:02:58R two. R two.

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:02:59R two. Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:03:06So David, before you get too far away, so are you you're recommending it B and M P or or to address the commissioner's concern, not what you're recommending. It would be still be an M P U D At R two densities? Well I or because I think you have to this would have to go back You couldn't just change it from an MPUD to a Euclidean zone.

   David Engel

   2:03:34No, I understand. It's really just kind of inserting a different type of condition format. If there's no water and sewer, then it would be a R2 type of density uh where it would be accommodating a septic system for each lot. That was that was the commissioner's proposal. I'm just paraphrasing. Okay.

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:03:55Uh-huh. Okay, so this is uh It's a public hearing. So we have anyone uh

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:04:03you take the applicant first.

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:04:05Oh the applicant come forward?

   What

   2:04:10Good afternoon. Shelley Johnson, 6400 Madison Street, and I have been sworn. Um I did have a map, William was gonna have them put it up, that kind of shows you the density that's going on around this site because it is a res six land use, and everything that's developing out around this site is res six, actually at 40-foot lots. I think if you look at this that I have an aerial as well after this one, but if you look at this, you can see like Summit View One and Two, those are developing out at 40 foot lots. You've got Rolling Hills 1, which is next to Cherry

   2:04:40Hill West, that's got 50s, villas, townhomes, condos, all at the Res 6 levels. You also have Abbey Glen 1 and 2, which are obviously under construction or has have been built in those are 40s. So and then to the east you've got or to the west you've got you know V OPH and Lake Javita. This is actually if you could could you go to the next map I'm sorry, thank you, the aerial. That might help as well. This is the aerial so you can kind of see. You

   2:05:10can see where Summit Lake View One and Two is getting cleared. You've got Abby Glen, those are all 40s all built out at Res 6. So this is literally just proposing what the existing land use requ allows for. Nothing beyond that.

   Seth Weightman

   2:05:23Since Shelley's looking at me, are these in what you're saying that's in the city of Dade City, correct?

   What

   2:05:28So Cherry Hills West is not in Dade City.

   Seth Weightman

   2:05:31But you're what you're showing is in the city of Dade City and you're here before the county and our policy is different than that of the city of Dade City.

   What

   2:05:39Well I mean the policy that has always been with regards to zonings, I know and that came up in this particular development with regards to connection to utilities because of the issues that Dade City was having and all the timing that went into that. But there are many developments where, you know, the utilities don't have to be shown to be in place when we're at this level. They typically will look at them at site plan when the sites are engineered, because at that time when they go into engineering, which may be another year from now, capacities change, connections change, you know, all those kinds of things. But the way we decided

   2:06:09to address it, because we are in the, you know, we are next to Dade City and we are going to potentially get service from Dade City. um was to include that condition that says, which none of I don't know, I think this is the first development that's had to do it to be honest with you, that I'm aware of, unless I'm wrong, um, that we will agree to connect, you know, and have that in place before we even get our plan approval. So um I think we've kinda gone above and beyond that issue compared to what other developments do.

   Seth Weightman

   2:06:35I respectfully disagree with you. the the examples you're citing are in a different jurisdiction and there and pretty different geographical Locations comparatively, you can't compare your project to Lake Javita, and your project likely probably won't necessarily compare to V OPH. I say that respectfully. I think you can have a really nice project with this location. And based on BFW Road. if approved today at a lesser density, we we don't have sewer, we

   2:07:05don't know when we'll have sewer. So to me this truly defines that a project at this site is not ready for game day. So I think you could have a really nice housing product here, um, but based on what you're proposing today I'm just not comf quite comfortable with it yet.

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:07:28Any other questions from Apple?

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:07:31Well I

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:07:32Okay.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:07:33Um I'm looking at the map and From what I can tell. There are a lot of oak trees on that property. It's covered in oak trees, so um I hate to see I are you would they be clear cutting the whole property? Yeah look with a site map.

   Seth Weightman

   2:07:51Oh look with a site map.

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:07:52Yeah, it's that's a little We got a new ordinance that's not in that tree ordinance is not approved.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:08:02That's

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:08:02a tough one.

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:08:09We have a tree ordinance coming forward but it's not approved yet.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:08:18abide by the new tree ordinance when their site plan comes in. Mm-hmm.

   What

   2:08:23Which they will have if the ordinance is in a in place they're gonna have to

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:08:26it's not in place, but we're working on a better one and uh and with these oak trees I want them to To have to abide by

   What

   2:08:34Yeah, I mean they're amenable to do I mean they're obviously, you know, whatever we're re they're required to do, I'm sure they're fine with that when they come in at site plan. I mean we do believe that this is a you know, everything else is developed out at res six around this property, so I don't know why this property would you know, and I I respect your comments, Commissioner Oakley. Um I d I just don't understand why they would be singled out to be down zone you know to to do less than red sticks. I mean that's what all the properties around there are doing so

   Seth Weightman

   2:08:59they're

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:09:00not singled out.

   Seth Weightman

   2:09:04Th what you're citing or as examples. You take them as kind of a project by project basis so

   What

   2:09:11Um V O P H which is right next door to Cherry Hill West has villas, townhomes and condos in it.

   Seth Weightman

   2:09:18Also

   What

   2:09:18investing

   Seth Weightman

   2:09:19seventy million dollars worth of infrastructure to be put in. It's a completely different scenario.

   What

   2:09:24Well I mean is indeed city correct. But I'm I was just talking from a planning perspective. It's you know it's developing out a little bit even denser than you know, some of the other properties around there.

   Jack Mariano

   2:09:35I'm just a little confused. I mean I don't have a problem with the density so much, but you gotta have water and sewer to be in lots the size. What w and I know we we talked about it. I saw the emails to it, but what's the hold up With the city giving it to you or are you still negotiating or what what's

   What

   2:09:49it? So the city has one uh the city has water capacity. It's just wastewater that they have an issue with right now. And they're working through and I'm involved in it quite a bit 'cause we have other developments over there um with the city attorney, but they're working through different options depending on sizes of developments. That was the last, you know, option I'd heard that potentially they'll go ahead and let USAs go to some of the smaller developments versus some of the largers. There's all different things going on. Some have USAs, there's questions about amending USAs to add

   2:10:20capacity or transfer. There's all kinds of different options. There's another wastewater plant that at the Old Likes plant that they're looking at to potentially try to convert to add capacity. So there's an emergency valve in the event that you know there isn't capacity on some of

   2:10:35Um so you know that we think that we'll be okay and really they're kind of moving forward at their own risk because they're agreeing in these conditions, like I said. which I don't know that there's any other ones that have done that, that they will uh have that capacity in place or be able to show Pasco County that they have, you know, service w from wastewater, from uh Dade City at the time of site plant approval. Not even you know, plat or, you know, anything like that. It's literally a site plan approval. Before they get their approval they have to show they have it. So they're

   2:11:05really proceeding at their own risk.

   Jack Mariano

   2:11:07But here's here's the problem I have. If you're doing a master plan unit development project And part of your plan is you have to have water and sewer. I'm thinking before you come to us, you gotta have that in place. I don't see how

   What

   2:11:19I

   2:11:19mean

   2:11:19there's many, many things.

   Jack Mariano

   2:11:20Euclidean's one thing. This is a master plan you had to develop.

   What

   2:11:24I understand I understand what you're saying. And that's that again is why we agreed to this condition because but there are many, I can promise you, there are many, many developments that come before you that you know aren't confident that they're gonna have water and sewer and where they're getting it from, and that's why most of the time it just gets pushed down to site plan, and at that time they deal with it at site plan when they engineer the sites, when they know exactly what's going on on the ground at that time, because so much changes as these things move through process. So That was why we thought the the good solution would be to just agree, you know, we will have we will

   2:11:54have that service before they even get site plan approval, which again isn't even something that normally is required, but we thought that addressed the, you know, addressed the question. 'Cause it really puts the burden on them.

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:12:06Well, s we don't know when the city's gonna have sewer available for customers. So they're all on hold. But there's no timeline or anything coming anytime soon. Uh Ms. Jagger.

   Lisa Yeager

   2:12:19Do you know you said there's other developers or other areas, do you know exactly, can you name some people that are having issues right now and are they in that general area?

   What

   2:12:29I mean anybody that's in the Dade City that is looking for service from Dade City right now as far as wastewater, um, unless you have a USA set in stone and approved by the commission, it's still a question of where you're gonna get the service. We have a USA on the on Rolling Hills One, which is the development next to this one. Um And there are a couple other ones in the count in the city that have USAs, but there's not a whole lot right now. So there's a there's a many projects that are in this position. Several I should say. So

   Seth Weightman

   2:12:58Mr. White you cited lights Pasco You come into the office any morning and you can smell that lights Pasco treatment plant. Yeah, they're not going to be able to do that.

   2:13:15under DEP violation and has fines levied on it and it smells pretty ripe some mornings. I think you can smell it for quite a ways. So uh they would if that's your solution then you're the that's telling me that this again this is confirming that this project is not ready to have proper sewage sewer

   What

   2:13:33well that's

   Seth Weightman

   2:13:33wastewater capacity.

   What

   2:13:35That's just one of the options that the city's looking at. I don't necessarily know that That's the option that they'll go with, but um I know that you know they would have to get all their DEP permitting and all that stuff in place, they wouldn't be able to you know, m do that otherwise. So I my understanding is they maybe we're working with um Kimley Horn or somebody to try to work through that. I don't know, you know, I have no idea if D E P would permit it. I don't I don't know anything about that. I just know that's one of the things that was being thrown out there.

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:13:57Yeah. All right, this is a public hearing, so let's we have

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:14:03I have um

   2:14:06you want to do anyone in person?

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:14:08Let's do everyone in person first, people who are signed up for this item.

   2:14:18Name and address and if you've been sworn.

   Mary Mcknight

   2:14:22Uh I have been sworn. My name is Mary McKnight, [address removed]. Welcome, Commissioner Yeager. Um uh One of the questions I have about this project is not a very important thing. When I have talked to um Well when you look at the map there's a the VFW owns two parcels. One is the square one that they're gonna sell to uh Miss Likens and Miss Burkhaw or Miss Burkhaw. And

   2:14:52the other one is the long one that has their building and it goes all the way down to County Road 52. When I've talked to the People at the uh the P F W they say nothing is gonna be on that strip, that whole strip. I said, Well the map shows a l a lake. And he says, No, that's not gonna be there. We're gonna have all of this property. I don't know if that's true or not. Maybe Ms. Johnson can help with that. But my question is if

   2:15:23There's nothing in uh of the input on that property, why is it why is that parcel included? So It it seems strange that You would give the the uh VFW property an MPUD status or designation. when we know it's not gonna be part of the the input. Uh they said the liquor license will remain in perpetuity that and uh

   2:15:53the um The the parking will be the same all the way down. So I don't understand why that parcel is even included. That's one of my questions. My other question is, um, the developers on this are are um Ms. Burkaw and Ms. Likens. Yeah. I'm wondering, do they have to pay taxes? before they come to you for entitlements. So my concerns are, I know uh they own next door to this is uh Rolling Hills.

   2:16:24Those taxes were not paid by the owners for two years. Some of them have tax liens. Um I've got a lot more to say. Um Is that one minute or three? One minute. One minute. One more minute. One minute left. Okay. Anyway. Those developers own owe about Almost uh half a million dollars in taxes. And I don't see how they can come to you asking for entitlements. of this

   2:16:55nature when they haven't paid their own taxes. Like we have to pay our taxes. So I am concerned about the noticing. Uh I can't s say I've driven by there every day and not seen a sign, but every time 'cause I I'm really keyed into public noticing, so every time I drive by there I look. I've never seen a sign posted, and that's since September until t tonight. This weekend I went out there. There are no signs and I know they say people steal 'em. But I'm not buying that. We're trying to get the

   2:17:25signs up. We're not trying to get 'em down. So I don't know what's going on with that. Okay.

   2:17:33Okay. I I did want to mention the water and I guess that's all. Thank you. All right.

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:17:38Thank you.

   2:17:42Yeah, somewhere else.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:17:43Yes, I don't uh anybody else?

   2:17:50If you could state your name and address and if you've been sworn for the record.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   2:17:53George Wallace, [address removed]. I have not been sworn, so I can swear.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:17:59You could uh raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, so help you God. Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   2:18:07Okay. The public notice sign I have screwed to the light bulb. Multiple times. And I'd have to come back, rescrew back up, and... Every time I come back, it's gone. So I am also the commander of the BFW. So all the property there is under my watch and I also live on the road. So that sign has been hosted. It's not my problem that somebody keeps ripping

   2:18:37it down. So that's all I can say about that.

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:18:42All right. Thank you. Someone else.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:18:45Um, I do have two individuals on WebEx. We have Christinia Renner. If you hold on just a moment, you're a bit elevated.

   2:19:00And Ms. Renner, you are um able to communicate if you could please state your name and address and whether or not you've been sworn.

   2:19:14Ms. Renner, if you could unmute your mic and try again.

   2:19:23We still do not hear you.

   2:19:30You're not coming through.

   2:19:36Eric is is her mic?

   2:19:40Okay. Okay, so you are available to talk on our end, however there must be an issue on yours to see if you can unmute or use your microphone.

   2:19:54Mm

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:19:55no.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:19:56Mr. Chair, d would you like to go to the next individual?

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:19:59Go to the next individual.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:20:00Okay. We have um the next individual is Andrew Renner.

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:20:04Well

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:20:05it's the same

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:20:05location.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:20:07Perhaps. Hopefully. He won't have an issue. And we're elevating you now, Mr. Renner. Hold on. You are elevated. You can go ahead and state your name and address and whether or not you've been sworn.

   2:20:22Yes we can Mr. Renner, thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:20:27With my three minute.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:20:31Mr. Renner, you cut out?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:20:35Can you hear me now?

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:20:37Yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:20:39That maybe after the time you could let her speak.

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:20:42I have an address.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:20:44If you were um able to give her what the microphone afterwards, yes. That

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:20:48would be fine.

   2:20:54That was up there, could could you go back to that?

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:20:57If while we doing that if you could state your name and address and whether or not

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:21:00you've

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:21:00been sworn for the record, thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:21:02And Andrew Renner, [address removed]. And I did raise my hand when y'all went through the swearing.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:21:09Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:21:10Uh could you put the master map back up?

   2:21:14The the the one that was originally up Before the developer came up.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:21:19Hold on just a second. They're working on it.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:21:21Sure. Thank you.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:21:28It's it's I guess the very first one. Oh okay. From the

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:21:32right-of-way go back. Sorry, right there, right there. So you see the northeast corner? That white little square right there?

   2:21:41Do you see the white square in the northeast corner next to the property?

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:21:46Um do you mean the one below the arrow to the right?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:21:51Like if you look at the green square, the the northeast corner, there's there's a white square right there. That that's R two and a half acres. Okay, so I I wanna thank the commissioner for what he said. If you go back to uh when we moved there over twenty years ago, all around us was thirty acres on one side, seven and a half acres on the other side, forty acres on the third side, and two and a half acres on the other side. Okay, and now we're being given a map that shows all of this dense population around us that

   2:22:21was not there, and we're using that to justify even more densely populating the area. So I just want to speak from my heart that it's like we didn't move there with ever the intention that they were gonna take all of these areas and develop them to this density. So I appreciate the commissioner that spoke on that and said that. But you know, th this is too dense for the area. We keep using the the over development and you know it's back to what I had spoken before is we're not reasonably developing our area. We we have plenty of areas in

   2:22:52Pasco County where we can put a lot of homes. Why are we putting them in an area? If you live in this area, you would know that the traffic is terrible. We have a high school on one side, we have another school on the other side, we have the fairgrounds right there, it's already getting very difficult just with Abby Glenn and those other developments that that the uh developer put the picture up To justify. I do want to speak to the notification. We live, we we are now going to be surrounded by three by properties on three sides if

   2:23:22all of these get approved and yet we haven't been notified. We haven't got anything in the mail since last year. Nothing to tell us when the meetings are so we can come i it's as if they don't want the citizens to speak out. And if it is true that they're not paying their taxes, we've been living here for over twenty years. We pay our taxes every year. And it seems like there's more emphasis on people coming in than there are the existing residents that pay the taxes and and are are the reason why our town is the enjoyable town that it

   2:23:52is. So I wanted to speak on that and I appreciate it. And I do appreciate the commissioner that said we need to lower the density because if we're going to go forward with that, one we would like to have some kind of a buffer to go from thirty acres, seven and a half, forty acres on one side to two and half to thousands of homes wrapping around us. We would prefer to have a wall and some kind of a buffer at a very minimum, but definitely less density. And um we'll see. And my wife is here, she is available,

   2:24:22she can speak on my phone if if that's good for you. And thank you. I appreciate it. Okay.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:24:30Okay, so um if you want to hand the phone over to Sleam Runner.

   Unidentified speakerVoice G

   2:24:35Yes, for some reason my my mine wasn't working. Name and address.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:24:40Oh thank you. Name and address and whether you've not been sworn and then you can proceed.

   Unidentified speakerVoice G

   2:24:44Um Christina Renner, [address removed] and yes I have been sworn. Thank you, you may proceed to the right-of-way.

   2:24:56try my best. Um I have n I have never been so proud to be listening to a county commission meeting to have quite a few of you stand up for our community and for the type of density that this kind of development is pushing. Um You're responsibly challenging this, which I really appreciate. And at this incomplete stage it's It's just been it's just frustrating that we would continue to keep pushing forward with this without all the boxes checked. Um

   2:25:27like my husband said, we drive past multiple times a week. almost every day, um, past the VFW. The only sign that we saw was last year and it was on the sign that's further onto the BFW property, not on the main road, not where it's visible to us as we pass by or any other um citizens. Um you can only see it if you were to turn down that way. You would never see it passing by. I visited again today. There was no signage. Um, not on the road, not on the VFW post, not on any of the property

   2:25:57at all.

   2:26:00We can Um The incorrect date I had an issue as well I wanted to report and quite a few of our viewers did as well. Um the Web X form was showing the incorrect date of May the seventh, not June the fourth. So people that had attempted to try to film the form um were not able to or thought they were not able to because it didn't give it to in the fourth date. Um I made that after multiple calls this week trying to figure out what to do um because we could not be at the meeting

   2:26:30today. Um

   2:26:34Tina Jeffers and she did um confirm that there was an issue. and contacted IT but it was only like ten till five yesterday. and people were not able to speak. Um and then that being said with the signage being missing that in of itself has has uh quieted people being able to speak out. Um We love our area of Florida. That's my two minutes. I have one minute left.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:26:59One minute left.

   Unidentified speakerVoice G

   2:27:00Thank you, sir. Um I'm imploring you as a longtime Pasco resident, landowner, a homeowner, we love Dade City, we love Pasco County, not to approve Cherry Hills and its current high density without proper conditions. as some of our leaders, as my husband mentioned before in Florida government Paul Renner, Wilt Wilton Simpson, Governor DeSantis have mentioned let's protect our Florida lands and develop Florida responsibly. Like the Rural Family Lands Protection Program. We should mirror these type of things and protect our Dade City land. As

   2:27:31um was mentioned earlier, the oaks this property has oaks galore. There are eagles, there are kestels, there are gophers. And we know because we are surrounded by this property. It is heavily wooded with old oaks. Um and we just would love for you to try to develop it as responsibly as possible, if at all, um, with larger lots and with the proper um utilities. Thank you so much for your time and God bless.

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:27:57Thank you.

   2:28:00Okay. Anyone else?

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:28:02There's no one else.

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:28:03No one else? No one in the audience. Is there anyone else in the audience wish to speak to this item?

   2:28:10Would the applicant want to come back up and review?

   Jack Mariano

   2:28:15Oh.

   What

   2:28:20Thank you again, Shelly Johnson, 6400 Madison Street, and I have been sworn. Um my client they were talking about the taxes. The client doesn't own the property yet. Um but if they're talking about the taxes on Rolling Hills One, which is the property adjacent to this property, those taxes are paid. Um so I'm not really sure w why they're thinking that they're not, but we don't own Cherry Hill West. I believe the taxes are paid on Cherry Will Hill West or we can't actually come forward. The the staff actually checks that. So but we don't own Cherry Hill West right currently. My client doesn't. Um so that's the answer to that

   2:28:50question. Uh you know the utilities again we tried to address that by agreeing to this condition. Um you know that we would ensure that we have service before, you know, one bit of dirt gets moved um which is typically you know how how we how we've done it in Pasco. I understand things are changing now with this concern with Dade City and wastewater, but um I thought this was you know a fair resolution that staff proposed so and we are in agreement with that Um again everything's res six. That's the ear I understand your concerns,

   2:29:21Commissioner, and you know respect your concerns on that. Um you know, with Abbey Glenn and some of you and all that going on around it at Res six levels and in and smaller lots at forty foot lots, you know, we would just ask ask that we be treated, you know, similarly, so with the fifty foot 'cause we did start with forties and we moved to fifties, so Okay. Thank you. All right. Аж бор.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:29:48Mr. Chairman Mariano options. You can approve it as tendered by staff with allowing them to move forward. Um with a stipulation that says they have to have their utilities committed to before any further approvals are done. Um you can continue the matter and say you wanna see a utility service agreement with Dade

   2:30:19City before you're gonna route this project. Um You can Lower the density if as the commissioner suggested. Um or you could deny it based on um both 402-1E13. Adequate public facilities are available to the site, including but not limited to water and sewer facilities, 4022. F2

   2:30:50adequacy adequacy of existing public services and facilities serving the proposed development, including transportation systems, utilities, fire and police protection, and comprehensive plan policy F L U 1.101, Compatibility Review, which also talks about Um in addition to the general compatibility and evaluation

   2:31:21of of densities, appropriate timing based on the analysis of available adequate public facilities and services, including water and sewer facilities.

   Jack Mariano

   2:31:32Mr. Myron? I'll move to continue time uncertain until they get the water and wastewater agreement in place.

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:31:45With the same density and everything, like it is? Well it would He's

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:31:50just continuing he's he's basically until they they get continuing until you get that piece of paper from from Dade City and then you'd continue with your evaluation your evaluation. But If they solve that problem.

   Jack Mariano

   2:32:05Right.

   2:32:06Then we have the hearing.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:32:07Then you

   Seth Weightman

   2:32:07Yeah. Question. Can't turn it so if we continued How long could we theoretically continue this? This could be Years.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:32:17Well you can you can do it to a di time uncertain

   Seth Weightman

   2:32:22So we wouldn't see it on an agenda when they're going to be able to do that.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:32:32Okay.

   2:32:36Basically the I mean the the the difference between a denial and a continuance in perpetuity is that you don't have to have the they don't have to pay a new application fee to re refile with you and there's no litigation with regard to the denial.

   Seth Weightman

   2:32:53I'll

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:32:53second Commissioner Mary Adam's motion.

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:32:55Okay.

   2:32:58I got a motion and second. Those all in favor? Say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:33:04Uh well I'm a little we've never done that to anybody. I mean they can't do anything until they get it. Well

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:33:09they got it. Well that's true.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:33:11So Like is so is it the same either way? Or But now we're now they now they can't sell it, whoever it is that's selling it. Uh I I'm more concerned about the density. I'm more concerned about the density because They're They can uh I just think we should just go ahead and face the density issue personally.

   Jack Mariano

   2:33:33Mr. Mariano. Yeah, Mr. Chairman M and the reason I made the motion to continue because if they decide and they get that agreement in place, they can come back to us. I I I can't recall ever having improved an MPUD without that in place. In this case with all the sensitivity around it, If the city I don't want to drive them to the city either. If they're going to come back and get that density, I'd rather them stay in the county. But right now because they don't have the agreement I don't see the need to move it forward until they figure that figure that out.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:34:03If this project were in the county service area in unincorporated county, staff would have demonstrated that there was adequate Water and sewer capacity in your facilities. the only time that you're gonna have this particular scenario is because it's up to another governmental jurisdiction and they've already flagged us. that they're not sure. So

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:34:28what we do up on County Line Road when we didn't have any facilities on those pro projects that we approved? in the hopes that Hernanda would let him provide. Was that different?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:34:39We had we had an interlocal agreement. That w that was for another year. When Hernando terminated it.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:34:49So we haven't improved any since then?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:34:52Not that I'm aware of. No, I don't think so. I think it w and and one of the commercial projects went the alternate route of septic.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:35:03Yeah, which isn't great. Um I do want to say I've been looking here at the maps and it looks like this property this silviculture. It looks like it's planted maybe planted pines. Um not necessarily just a bunch of old light bugs. So I just want to clarify. I mean it's

   Ron OakleyChair

   2:35:20a Okay. Let me go back We have a motion in a second.

   Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair

   2:35:24Yeah, I just didn't