PIFBA-23-0381

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1. 1Sep 19, 2023
   Board of County CommissionersP71Public hearingAdopted

   Approved minutes

   Approved to adopt including to add to the definition of active PVAS assessment, means a non-ad valorem assessment for the purposes of local road paving and maintenance appearing on the tax bills of the benefited property and for two years thereafter for parcels receiving a separate annual billing by a roll call vote.

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   Jack MarianoChair

   1:03:04Any further discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Many opposed? Three to one. Congratulations Roy. We're looking forward to working with you. I know you're going to accomplish great things. Thank you. We will proceed to public hearing starting with ordinances. Item P 71. Uh Madam Clerkman is noticed.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:03:22Uh yes, Mr. Chair, we have proof for item P seventy one was published in the Tampa Times on August 23, 2023.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:03:29Thank you.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:03:36Oh sorry. Yes. P seventy-one.

   Justin Grant

   1:03:44All right, perfect. Justin Grant, Director of Public Infrastructure, Fiscal and Business Administration. Item P71 is file number PIFA 230381. An ordinance amending the local road paving municipal service taxing unit, providing for amended boundaries, providing for levy of advil arm tax, providing for the amended municipal service tax. Services to be funded, providing an appeal process, providing for severability, providing for inclusion in the county code, and an effective date.

   1:04:16All right, so a quick recap on um where we've come from, right? We've um been working on this here for quite a while. Uh the board has seen this item a couple of times and and it's progressed through. So back in uh in October of 2022, the board directed staff to establish the MSTU as the vehicle to replace PVAS. And so at that point, an MS they directed us to draft an MSTU ordinance and bring it back to the board for consideration. So then we did that in December of 2022, and ordinance number 22-64 was adopted. Then in the

   1:04:46spring of this year, after extensive collaboration with property appraiser, tax collector, county attorney's office, we realized that the methodology that the MSTU was based on, which was based off of road ownership and classification, was something that would be very, very difficult to ultimately implement. So we realized at that point that a shift in methodology was needed. And so now we are here to present that updated methodology, and that amendment is here before the board for consideration. Before I get into some of the main points

   1:05:16that we revised in the ordinance, I want to define a term that you're going to see here on some coming slides. And it's called active PVAS. And while we're not really here to talk a whole lot about PVAS today, we're really talking about its replacement. This is important as we have as a provision in this ordinance. And so active PVAS is defined as any parcel that's contained within a PVAS project that's still within its amortization schedule. We have two different types of billings that go on. There's tax roll billings that transitioned right around 2016. And then we have what we call anniversary billings that are separate annual billings

   1:05:46that happen outside of the tax roll. Most of that is projects that predate 2016. This includes parcels that w have prepaid assessments. And so it's important to note that provision in PVAS offers 33 days from when they initially get their PVAS that they can pay off their assessment, not receive it on their tax bill. Interest-free. And so when we do these things and we go through an amortization schedule, a re resident that prepays an assessment does not get an annual bill.

   1:06:15All right, so here's the notable ordinance modifications. So the MSTU will include all unincorporated areas of Pasco County, excluding the following. Parcels that are uh currently or in the future subject to an active PVAS assessment, which is the definition we just reviewed. Or parcels that are within a HOA that maintains its private roads, or parcels within a CDD that does the same. There's other modifications here. Um this also designs an appeals process for HOAs and C D Ds that can request

   1:06:45their exclusion. So I'll take a minute and talk a little bit about that comment. County staff has been working very hard to review development records, things that have been approved throughout that, and corresponding with a number of different agencies across the county, mostly with C D Ds and making efforts with HOAs as well. So, as a part of that, we recognize that we may not be able to capture everything through that process. And so we want to provide an official process that, if ultimately we have an exclusion list that's an exhibit in this ordinance that shows which ones that we've identified and through communication

   1:07:16with them and records that are on file, that they've been excluded right now or intended to be excluded from the MSTU because they perform these functions on their own. We recognize that we may not capture some. Entities that would meet those definitions that are currently doing that. And so we want to provide an appeals process for those areas to come forward and let us know and meet a certain number of tests and provide documentation that they have the illegal abilities to do that. And so There go, that's what we're defining as the appeals process. That'll kick off here. We intend to come back to the board here in the next month or

   1:07:46two to provide that official process to then be put in place and then provide for a number of months before we enter next summer as we get closer to the budget process for those entities to come forward. And so the last modification that's of note here is this will also give consideration to something that this board has asked a number of times throughout the PVAS program, which is trying to address uh sidewalk rehabilitation.

   1:08:09This is a draft map of the areas that are currently identified as excluded. And so we've got all four municipalities in there. Right now, there is a listing you see there in the bottom right corner of this slide that identifies about 41 of the 69 CDDs that we have on record that we've identified that meet the test to be excluded that handle these things on their own. There's 13 CDDs that county staff is currently researching and working back and forth on records to determine if. if they would meet the test for exclusion. And then uh finally there is one HOA that is also currently excluded.

   1:08:41And so to give you also an update from when we talked uh back in December, uh, this board uh we called this internally the stoplight slide. It used to have three uh four stoplights on it, now it's got two. And so it gives you a picture of the 24 projects that were um in process with PVAS that received uh the go-ahead from this board to continue moving forward. And so this gives you a brief update here that uh there's five of those that were completed and are gonna be placed. the twenty three tax bill that is going out here shortly. Then there's another 11 projects that'll land on next year's

   1:09:11tax bill. And then there's another eight projects that fall on those bottom two stoplights that are in process.

   1:09:19All right, so where do we go from here? So here in the fall, which is what we're doing uh right now and coming forward here before the end of the calendar year, we'll finalize that C D D and OHOA appeals process that I talked about and begin a formal communications plan out to all those entities so they have the chance to reach out to the county and engage with us. Then in spring, uh we will begin an avalarum rate discussion. This is where we kind of talk about before. This will be when we really get into the minutiae of the MSTU, right? This board will get to have be presented with all sorts of information, and then you can start

   1:09:49setting the direction on what levy of you know what level of tax and what level of billings you'd like to do, and what resulting paving and things like that we would aim to accomplish in the next fiscal year. Then in July, uh it will enter enter into the budget process in uh concurrent with the trim. September it'll finalize, right? So a year from now, right, when you're doing your final budget hearing, this would be a part of that.

   1:10:12All right. Thank you. Okay, so the recommended action is to accept public comment of the uh and adopt the proposed ordinance and then direct board records to transmit that ordinance up to the state for red their record keeping.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:10:29Um Mr. Chairman Mariano that we're switching from the old system to the new. Um however I just want to discuss one item that I think I've been consistent on as we've talked about this. And that is I I think it's not either or, but there's a small area where there's a blend. Um and and my thoughts and I don't know I know that this is complicated. And there won't

   1:10:59always be There's gonna be winners and losers in this because if you just If you just paid for your PVAS thousands and thousands of dollars Um and now you're gonna switch to the new

   1:11:14Um and your and this next street over gets done in the new system and they didn't have to pay thousands and thousands of dollars. Not gonna be such a great feeling. So Uh because of that I've always thought we should have some kind of transition blend. uh area And it and and I'm just gonna throw out a suggestion here. Um And it's not the best for everybody, but it's a a thought that if you if you have Finish paying your P VAS. Um

   1:11:46you get a two year reprieve. And I'm just picking two years randomly. Before you start paying into the new system. Because I just think there needs to be a little something there to make it fair. That's my thought.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:12:01And I'll I'll go along with that. I think you should go further than that though, because if you've paid for a road, let's say your your assessment just came out last year, you paid it that road's gonna last ten, fifteen years? I think that's a good thing. You could even say maybe it should be like seven or eight years or even ten years.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:12:15Well I think that cripples the system.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:12:17So

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:12:17I that's why I think there needs to be a blend in there.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:12:20Okay.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:12:20A little you know,

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:12:21I'm flexible with the number, but there should be something. I agree, I agree with you. Commissioner Weightman.

   Seth Weightman

   1:12:27Uh Thank you for finally finally getting there on this one. Uh one of the last few times we spoke we ended up working with Ranford, you know, the sidewalk adding the sidewalk component. I hope we all agree. For going going down and building these roads we we include a sidewalk component. Uh which kind of goes into Commissioner Starkey's point of who maintains, builds sidewalks, etc. You know, so I I really want to Get s make sure and ensure sidewalks the sidewalk

   1:12:58is components in there. But to the Chairman and Commissioner Starkey's Starkey's comments I kind of think a little differently in the fact that Everybody's driving on more than just the road that they paid to pave. And everybody's going other places. So everybody's driving on everybody's road. Business is driving on the road you paid for, you're driving on the road somebody else paid for, etcetera. So Uh I don't I appreciate the comments of the

   1:13:28the the Chair and Commissioner Starkey and I appreciate where they're Where the where their mine is, but Just overall big picture. Everybody's everybody's driving on on all the roads all over the place. So I don't know I don't that's just a comment. Uh And I just share that. Thank you.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:13:49Commissioner Oakley.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:13:51I see the um the changeover when someone's just paid for their PVAS which There's a lot of money and they might have ten years to pay on it. Well They go through all that pain on it. You can't charge 'em together after they're paying off. So I would think you would probably do at least up to five years of giving them a reprieve from paying on it and then after that five years they fall in the system just like everybody else. Does that change the numbers if we do something like that?

   Justin Grant

   1:14:21So yeah, one of the things that we we certainly spent a ton of time contemplating, right? And there and there are two issues that kind of have to run parallel, which is hey, how do you ramp up your replacement, which is the local road paving MSTU, which is what we're talking about today, and then how do you wind out? The other one, right? The prepaid component is one that is really, really difficult, right? You have a lot of folks that have prepaid those things, have never paid interest on them. And so the active PVAS definition, after I can probably tell you there was 10 plus different solutions that staff bantered around back and forth

   1:14:51and tried to find the one that was the most equitable across the landscape. And so that's the one we've we've recommended. But what we've also talked about doing in terms of Internally is as a part of PVAS kind of winding down is expanding some of the maintenance components that are not currently part of PVAS. One of the big drawbacks that we talked about, I think it was back in the October hearing of last year, is that PVAS is kind of this one and done situation, right? It's a, hey, great, come in, we're gonna pave your road, we're gonna assess you for a period of time, you're gonna agree to that assessment and interest rate and what have you, but there's not there's not continued maintenance

   1:15:21that's happening on those roads. boomerang back around back into the system that roads that were P Bash years ago come back in. The intention uh of the Pasco County team here on this component is, especially for the ones that are still in inactive and projects that are here Is to start applying maintenance on those projects, right? So especially with your 24, is start doing things and Public Works has talked about some different maintenance prescriptions that they have in their system, that at three years there are activities that are done. At eight years, there

   1:15:51are activities that are done to keep the road score up, with the ultimate goal that when we transition projects that are in active PVAS as you see them today, as they transition into the MSTU, They wouldn't be a negative draw on the average road score for all of our local roads that are coming into the system. So that we don't have a situation that where those folks are paying into their PVAS and then ultimately they're in a backlog, right, for a number of years with the MSTU that they don't get maintenance done on. And so that's that's where we're trying to mitigate some of those things that you were referring to. Does that answer your question,

   1:16:21sir?

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:16:22Yes. Thank you.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:16:24Um Mr.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:16:26Stronger.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:16:26How does the sidewalk component of this work? I'm confused on that one.

   Justin Grant

   1:16:31Sure. So so the intention with the sidewalk component is to build that into the MSTU that when you know currently right now when we do PVAS projects, right, there is not consideration for sidewalks, right? The main intention is hey, the road is degraded, it's not it's not of adequate shape, that we need to go in and repair the road. And so now it was hey, let's expand the scope that when we were looking at redoing roads and rehabbing roads that hey, and this is not on an as needed basis, but what you're going in you're doing an entire neighborhood, right? So in the local road system, we would also evaluate the sidewalks and see if there's an improvement that

   1:17:01needs to be done on the sidewalks that are in that area and make that part of the project.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:17:06So okay, so you're gonna take over the sidewalks that we now leave to the citizens when you have a road project adjacent to it?

   Justin Grant

   1:17:14So I'll defer to the county attorney to define when ownership takes place, but I can tell you from our maintenance plan is that we wouldn't want to touch those sidewalks until we do a full rehab program in a given area. That's

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:17:28what I

   Justin Grant

   1:17:28said. Right. So I'll defer back to the county attorney.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:17:30Yeah, I Well you will

   1:17:37You wanna be very careful about which sidewalks you decide to bring into the county system at this point. I mean for years Pasco County has taken the position. that they don't maintain sidewalks. Um But It that's also a pain point for the Board of County Commissioners, as both the administrator and I know. Um and so I think the theory was that this would create a source of funding. that

   1:18:07if a sidewalk was either identified during Our local road project or was one that ki would continue to come up and You'd get pictures of it. It w there were you know, there were injuries Um and it was of a level that the county wanted to take it over. this would provide a source of funding to bring those sidewalks

   1:18:38into the system, knowing that once you bring them into the system, they are once you touch them, they're yours. Yeah.

   1:18:48Assuming they're not going to be able to do that. in public right of way.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:18:51That's for s uh safety reasons, basically?

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:18:55Yeah.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:18:55Yeah. Love safety. Okay.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:18:57But the but we won't do sidewalks separately from a road system.

   Justin Grant

   1:19:02That is not our intention, no ma'am.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:19:04So slowly we're gonna it's gonna take decades, but slowly we're gonna get all the sidewalks.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:19:10Yes, depending on the funny colour. Like those trails. They're mini trails.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:19:18As long as you don't

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:19:19take out the trees.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:19:20Uh I'd like to move approval. Yeah. We have a second. I

   Seth Weightman

   1:19:23will second.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:19:24Well, I don't know. I still think we need a transition. But but so what we're gonna say the transition is just maintenance? So there's no transition? Yeah. Mm McCounty Journey says we have to fix it here if we want anything like that.

   Seth Weightman

   1:19:39By approving I interpreted this as us moving forward which I think We're all in agreement, hey, this is a great step forward. Then we're not going to be able to the next step in the process would be to You would come back and talk about the other my board members' concerns and then finalize

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:19:58No sir. No? You're adopting an ordinance today. So if you want to address the issue of having that period of time

   Gary Bradford

   1:20:08Yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:20:11period, it would have to be in the adoption of this ordinance it would because you're going to be adopting millage from

   Seth Weightman

   1:20:19So follow-up to that then if we want to get this this ordinance potentially going active from zero to active next year during next budget cycle, do we have to have a decision today or can we we have till the end of the year or

   Justin Grant

   1:20:32you have till the end of the county? calendar year for any changes that we make to the ordinance, right? And I'll again you know

   Seth Weightman

   1:20:37I'd be I'd be willing to wait withdraw my motion then whatever what makes whatever makes this board cuff comfortable with my second whatever makes this board comfortable with to move forward I'd I'm willing to

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:20:49Sorry, did it hang on for a second?

   1:20:52go on to Commissioner Oakley and Commissioner Starkey's kind of like compromise positions. You know, w when someone gets a P Vest it could be fifteen years, it could be ten years. Either way they're paying all the way through. And frankly Well f part of the initial conversation was anybody paying period wouldn't wouldn't have to pay. As a longer period of time they're probably paying less than what the normal breaker would be to when we may come back to it. So I'm okay with a compromise position at five if you want to stick with five.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:21:19Well. But I don't think you've got it too. The current ordinance if they are under if they are paying assessments, they will not be paying into the MSTU. Right. Right. But someone who

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:21:30someone who had an assessment that paid it is the people we're talking about. And that's where I say You know, your neighbor could be paying it for ten years, fifteen years and not paying into this? And the guy who just stroked the check because he didn't want to do it. They're

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:21:43exempt as well. Th we are only talking about the folks who have paid and finished. That the project has finished. giving them an additional period of time that they wouldn't be subject to the MSTU. So Commissioner,

   Justin Grant

   1:21:59if I can't do that,

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:21:59transfer I'm talking

   Justin Grant

   1:22:00about. Okay, so directly. So when we go back to the definition of active PVAS, and I'll try and get back to that slide. So active PVAS, we talk about the amortization schedule. That is so on a ten year assessment, for example, right? That billing period that amortization Would be 10 years. If you have a couple of residents that choose to use that 33 day grace period to say, hey, I don't want to pay interest, I'd like to pay this off right on the front end. They pay that off now through PVAS. They do not receive any future billings under that program. If we transition into the MSTU, as

   1:22:31long as that project is still active under its amortization, you still have other parcels in that project, that same resident that prepaid still runs and does not need to pay any other bill, including the MSTU, until that project finishes its amortization. schedule.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:22:45Because I was wondering how my idea would work under that scenario. And so here's how I think it works under that scenario. Because either the person who starts to check for the whole thing 'cause they didn't want to pay interest or the person who is taking our loan for ten years. When that project is done, there's a finite day when it's done. And then in my opinion that street doesn't get billed for two years. That's the way to do it. No matter if they stroke the check.

   1:23:13But whenever the project um uh whenever the project is done being paid Four? Um and finishes in our system, I think they get a two year amnesty. I just leave that two years. I don't want to cripple the program, but I want to give them something.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:23:29Let me just think about this. What if it's a fifteen year payout?

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:23:32It it doesn't matter the payoff.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:23:33Well here's why it does. Because the fifteen year person get a bigger break than the guys with the ten.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:23:37It's the same. It's two years after the project's done no matter what.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:23:42But the road's only gonna last so long, whether it be a ten year payout or a fifteen year payout, so it doesn't matter. And frankly Knowing that all those people are covered for ten years is pretty good. Um I don't I I would don't want to see someone who's got the fifteen year to go to seventeen, so I don't see uh how you separate that. So frankly I'm I'm I'm even saying I'm even thinking right now Just let everybody start paying when the thing is due.

   Justin Grant

   1:24:05So under if I understand your commentary correctly, right? Und under the way we designed the thing.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:24:11Okay.

   Justin Grant

   1:24:12Yeah, um, so the intention right now is like we talked about, right, as the as the PVAS amortization schedules finish, right, is to build in some maintenance components, right, start addressing some of those things so they're not a negative draw, right? We this is part of why we're designing the entire program for lower road paving because there's a bunch of roads in the county that have very poor conditions, right, need attention, right, and there hasn't been a better vehicle. To do that. And so if we're starting to do maintenance on those PVAS roads and then they transition immediately, right, which is the way our financial models currently have it happening, they'll begin to receive

   1:24:42maintenance, right? So on that 10-year assessment, when they finish their PVAS year 11, when they transition into the MSTU, right, they'll be part of the maintenance network. So they'll be part of the public work system that'll be constantly evaluating those roads and receiving maintenance. If I understand your your idea here correctly, are you proposing that we exclude those parcels from the MSTU holistically for two years so where they wouldn't be charged and they also wouldn't receive any maintenance?

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:25:11No,

   Justin Grant

   1:25:11I I would still leave them on

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:25:12the maintenance.

   Justin Grant

   1:25:14I mean they haven't paid any of the things that we're going to do. But let me ask you something.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:25:19So let me I don't recall, at least in my district, PVAS is going out fifteen years. So what is your average PVAS, isn't it five years? Ten years. Ten max ten yeah, the most

   Justin Grant

   1:25:34actually ten, right? And so I don't have the average age. I I don't want to quote a number and say out of all of our active projects, what the actu actual age. I believe it's just shy of ten years. I think it's somewhere between eight and nine years. But you have three different terms that the board has typically selected. Which has been five, ten, or fifteen years. And so some of those ones that we we talked about back on the anniversary billings that in 2016, and it wasn't a super clean transition, right? So 2016, most of the projects that be that came to the board in 2016. Or after all went

   1:26:04on the tax bill. Depending on when they were presented and approved by the board, some of those still went anniversary, right? Which means that they receive a separate bill directly from the county, not on their tax bill. Some of those, it seems, based on the records that we look at, it's more common that there was 15, there was longer terms used at that time. And so in the last five to six years, This board has typically only approved five and ten year P BASE, right? Yeah.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:26:29Commissioner Oakley. The problem with the old system, the P BAS system. Like a lot of that was done in Licuche, which is a poor market area where people can't afford to pay the They're P Bass and And those things. They're not and you know they may have ha been given ten years to pay it off. Interest free or with interest? The fact of it is they can't pay it at all. So it's still on their property. In La Coochie area, those fees are still on the private when they should have used a grant.

   1:27:00do that in a poor area of the county. a grant would have paid for it and they didn't have any responsibility. It wouldn't have gone on their property. That's what's wrong with the PVAS system on a poor neighborhood. There's a lot of things wrong with the PVAS system. And that's you know, that's a burden. So those there's still that up there. So

   Justin Grant

   1:27:19Yeah, uh Commissioner, you make a good point. Based on the way we're designing the MSTU, this would become an annual tax, right? And so one of the big components, especially when you look at some of those lower income neighborhoods, right, was the lien comportion of the PVAS, right? So when that project was put on there, a lien's put on the on the on the parcel, right? And so they are trying to satisfy that loan back to the county. And so that that's one of the other things that we tried to address here with the MSTU, and this board made the decision. To direct staff to create that, that it will now be an annual tax that pays in and the Board will decide what level of

   1:27:49funding, right, which will ultimately be what level the residents pay in and what is produced by the system, but it doesn't produce a lien on the individual parcels that now benefit from the system. Right.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:28:00No, if you don't pay your MSTU w it's a link.

   Justin Grant

   1:28:04If you don't pay your tax bill holistically, you've got a problem. Yeah. That you

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:28:09tax

   Justin Grant

   1:28:09report.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:28:09Oh it's a tax sale. It's worse. There is a process.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:28:15So Commissioner Oakley.

   1:28:18I made the motion. I didn't put a relief in there, but I I guess if we're gonna do a P Vass and Uh I'm just gonna use ten years. We're gonna do that and if people pay out in ten years. they should have a two or three year chan uh relief from having to pay. Hopefully they pay at the end of the tenure. So Um then they would start on MSTU after that two or three years. And

   1:28:49just continue and then they'd they'd pay into the system just like everybody else. So what number do you want it to be? Two or three? I think three. Uh Because we talked about five, we talked about ten, we talked about two. I just think three. So Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:29:10Sounds like that in

   1:29:11the right-of-way.

   1:29:15Oh Right. So Joe? Justin, check me on this. If you add to the definition of active PVAS assessment. Means a non-advalorum assessment for the purposes of local road paving and maintenance appearing on the tax bills of the benefited property. And for three years thereafter. or parcels receiving a separate annual bill. Billing. Would that in

   1:29:45fact do what the board is asking them to do?

   Justin Grant

   1:29:49So

   1:29:50I

   1:29:50think the point of clarification I would respectfully ask of the board is is the board intending To solely provide rate relief as a transition period for those parcels? Or are you all or are you also seeking to exclude them from receiving any from participating in the MSTU at all when they finish? Well correct if you're not going to be able to do So you're saying this is going to be

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:30:18easier for you to e to treat them as if they're an active PVAST. Okay.

   Mike Carballa

   1:30:24Correct.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:30:24For that period of time and three years. Okay.

   Mike Carballa

   1:30:28Yeah, they're not getting

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:30:29maintenance, they're

   Mike Carballa

   1:30:30not getting anything.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:30:31move them kinda into the system. Um If that's a good idea. I'm not advocating for it, but that's I think I'm counting enough votes that simple. Understood. That that's what the board is looking for. And I think if you modify the definition of active PVAS assessment, it gets the board to where they are and it's the simplest way to implement it.

   Unidentified speaker

   1:31:00I think that that works. I would just move that clause till after the after the succeeding clause so it captures the annual billing also.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:31:11Or for parcels receiving a separate annual billing assessment. Well I I deliberately didn't do that because they've been out of the system they they never have had Um Bills on their tax bill.

   1:31:28Right. The separate annual ones have never had never had bills on the tax bill. And the last one we did of those was in 16. So

   Justin Grant

   1:31:39I believe we have one in seventeen captives. Th in that in that general range. So your your fifteen year periods, ten to fifteen year ones that would have gone through anniversary billing were somewhere in

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:31:51resolution. The board can correct me, but those aren't the modern assessments that the board has levied against

   1:32:02these folks uh these are ones that we were sending bills out. They never went on a tax bill.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:32:09I'm talking about any PVAS, but I don't think we should do three years. I think two is plenty. And here's why. Okay, so some of these are large. Some people are paying a couple thousand a year, but some of them aren't that large. And and you know, I've heard the numbers of what this assessment might be about, you know, depending on what we decide, $150, $200 a year. You start letting people off six hundred. On maybe what was a Maybe that was the total cost of their PVAS or I mean I think we

   1:32:39I think we're doing a good job for our citizens to stick in that too. And c Because we don't want to harm the ability for them to um come in and fix the roads. So just give a little bone, not a whole stake. That's my suggestion.

   1:32:57So anyone who's in a P Pas system, they get a two year

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:33:00Well I understand that and I'll amend my motion again. to uh move that back to two years. And then in other words if they are on a finance deal they they pay out in ten years. It'll be twelve years instead of ten, just two years on top of that like

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:33:17Well two years of nothing.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:33:18Yeah.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:33:19Two years of empty s empty PVAS space.

   Mike Carballa

   1:33:21And and I'd like to clarify my maintenance statements. You know, public works does go out and fill potholes and do that when we're talking the maintenance. We're talking like the

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:33:28MSP.

   Mike Carballa

   1:33:30Well no, that that yes, that that's kind of a base level of service. We're talking more of these enhanced surfaces, microsurfacing, these other these other means of the easement.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:33:42Okay. I have a motion to with it two years. And Commissioner Starkey, we have a second.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:33:47Second.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:33:48Any further discussion? All in favor say aye. Roll call? Is it roll call?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:33:56So the qu I guess the question still made is there is does the board want it to be on the ones that PVAS is sending bills out to?

   Seth Weightman

   1:34:08Not Well those are the people who would were given a two year

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:34:13So the Well, what I'm suggesting is that the the your your modern active PVASes are those which are appearing on the tax bills. Now. Now. Right. There are a ho a series of historic ones. that they're physically mailing bills out and may or may not ever collect on. Right.

   1:34:40And I I didn't know whether it's a little bit more than a little Frankly, those I don't think that you should be providing the relief to.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:34:47No, but I agree. We don't provide a relief to those that haven't been able to pay their bill because no money or whatever. So

   Justin Grant

   1:34:55um so I I'll support the I don't

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:34:57know how you word that. So

   Justin Grant

   1:34:59absolutely. Um County Attorney makes a fantastic point. We've had detail Discussions about that that the billing and collections for what we refer to here on this second sub bullet and the slide before you separate annual P VES billings, what we call anniversary billings, those are the ones that happen outside the tax bill. Because of that, it costs us far more for the county to collect on those, pursue those, and deal with those than it does the ones that tax process, right? And so e exactly. And so the the condition of Of a relief clause as as it be

   1:35:29the cleanest way to separate it would would Sounds like what the county attorney is suggesting is by the definition the billing type, right? So whether it's on the tax bill or if it's on anniversary billing. And we have very clear records that distinguish which one is in which

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:35:48Clerk ho clerk's office comfortable?

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:35:50Um I am. Um however, d uh Mr. Chair, did you call for public comment?

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:35:55I have not

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:35:55been a little bit more.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:35:56Good point. Good point. Anyone here from the public like to speak to P seventy one.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:36:04There's no one online for this item and I do have um a question if you will, Mr. Chair. I have someone who did sign up. Um they didn't put the agenda item, so if we call up every agenda item I'm gonna have check on them. If do you mind if they uh tell us which item they're on? It's Daniel um Chiselle or Sissel, maybe? Daniel Sissel, if you're in the audience, do you know what item?

   1:36:29Okay, we're gonna probably have to ask every time. Okay. All right, then there is no one signed up for for public comment on this item. Thank you. Okay, call the roll. District One, Commissioner Oakley. Aye. District two, Commissioner Weightman. Aye. District three, Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District four, Commissioner Oakley, District Five, Commissioner Oakley Chairman Mariano.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:36:48Aye. Motion passes 4-0. Thank you.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:36:52That's a big step.