Pasco County meeting record

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1Mar 23, 2021
Board of County CommissionersP58Public hearingApproved
Approved minutes
Approved the item per Staff’s recommendation by a roll call vote with Commissioner Moore voting nay.
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23m
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Item P fifty eight was published in the Tax Bay Times on February twenty fourth, twenty twenty one.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Oh.
Commissioner Yeah. Okay.
Christina Fitzpatrick
Oh yeah, those are the ones from that go in the other entrance to Crane's Roosevelt. These were the Sharon Drive. Mm-hmm. This road. That um that was on Yellow Lake.
Yeah, that's those that's really bad. I don't even think those were chip sealed.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
No, they were not. And we haven't gotten a P VAS request for those roads.
Christina Fitzpatrick
You
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
have not.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
I've not.
Christina Fitzpatrick
Okay, so Crane's Roost comes in off little, but they also enter Crane's Roost from the back.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Okay, but the the directive was that it's the road that were chip seal. And because of the contin uh uh contiguous nature of planters, that's why planters was included. So
Christina Fitzpatrick
But planters and thrasher were never chip sealed.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Right.
Christina Fitzpatrick
The
Unidentified speakerVoice A
whole thing
Christina Fitzpatrick
that stopped me from moving forward with Crane's roost today.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Okay. So if we did not include the paving off planters. What would happen is that the cost per ERU would go up by over $400 for the folks along Crane's roof. So the folks on planters would be paying approximately eighteen hundred dollars for not having their road paved, but having to use a paved road. And the folks who have the paved road, their ERU would have gone up by four hundred dollars. That's why they were included.
And this is following the methodologies and guidelines for the program, BVAS program.
Christina Fitzpatrick
Looking that up for me. Okay.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
You're welcome.
Christina Fitzpatrick
All right.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Um Anza we're gonna talk about Buena Vista at the next meeting?
Ron OakleyChair
We've got two more items here. We got yeah. We got two more I think.
We got P fifty eight and date.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
I gave the publication. Um I'll give it again, Tampa Bay Times, um February twenty-fourth, twenty twenty one.
Ron OakleyChair
This is in your district, Commissioner Starkey.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Well you know I'm boat boy. Like come out.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Uh this is Speed of the 21-0051. And this is Lake Como, PVAS number 3375. There's one road here is County maintained PAVE, 97 lots, 36.77 ERUs. Estimated cost is 166,300 approximately. Maximum cost per ERUs $4,522. Max uh discounts. Amount is uh $17,805 and the maximum cost per ERU after the
discount is uh $3,641.71. This is a board initiated project, but it's not a storm damage board initiated project. And um this was brought up um November 17, 2020. The repayment is period is 10 years and the interest rate is uh 3.25%. And this is the location map and it's just the uh brown beach color section. Um from counterline going north that
is being proposed to be repaved. This is a photo of the condition of the road. And let me go back and That's it.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Yeah, so falling apart.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Um is there anyone to speak to? There is. We have um we have two people on WebEx.
Ron OakleyChair
Two pigamore way bags. Okay, let's hear from them.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Right. The uh first A person that I have on Webex is Vicky King. Please state your name and address for the record. Thank you.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Vicky King, [address removed].
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Thank you.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
You may proceed. Okay, the residents voted against this proposal, so what warrants the repair of the h at the homeowner's expense? It's very functional road. It might not be aesthetically pleasing. The part you showed It's not reality. What documentation do you have? The road does not flood during storms. And it's very viable by cars that go the ninety two residents that go through here. Any paving of the road will only increase the speed. And
cause safety hazards for those in every part of the neighborhood. Thank you.
Ron OakleyChair
Is that Is that all your comments?
Mike Moore
Yeah, she said thank you.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Yes, that's
Ron OakleyChair
all my comments. All right, thank you.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
But my my interest is that we voted against this years ago. So someone goes to the county commissioner and she comes out one time and decides that it's okay to pave the road when it doesn't bother anybody here.
Ron OakleyChair
Okay. Thank you for your comments. The next person.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Uh we had uh Larry Motto uh on. I don't know if he's still on. Did he drop?
So those were the only two that I had on WebEx for item P fifty eight. And I do not have any email for P fifty eight.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
So um this road was brought to our attention.
Ron OakleyChair
Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Is there a kiosk?
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Someone on the kiosk?
There's no one at the kiosk.
Ron OakleyChair
Okay, commercial
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
sharp. How many times has this one come up for a PVAS?
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Uh this came up once and fill in 2019 with 22 yes votes and 30 uh no votes.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Okay. So So This two years ago, three years ago Someone or maybe even four years ago, someone brought this to the attention of the county that it needed to be paved. Because it takes a while to go through the process. And Since that time it has continued to deteriorate. And and so I don't
People want the county to keep coming in and repairing your road, but it's it's just not a fair use. of the money. And so when your road is in such bad shape as we saw in that picture, and can you put that picture back up? I think it's time to go ahead and and fix it and I wish we had a different process because who wants to spend m you know, no one wants to spend money fixing their road. They want someone else to fix it. But that's not how we do it here. From
my presentation. There.
Is is in really bad shape. And so I just think it's well I'm looking at it and I and I've driven on it and it's fallen apart and I our staff wouldn't be going through all the time to t to go out there and assess it. and bring it to us if they didn't think it was needed to be fixed. So That's a
Unidentified speakerVoice B
picture in front of What at the beginning of the road.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
So I don't think we're supposed to be having a conversation back and forth. Um so this is my district and I think it's Eight person. I think um it wasn't that far off that between the yeses and the no's, I've been contacted by people who have asking for help to get this road fixed. And I lots of times we ask you, Ainsley, who's renting who own and who owns the home. We haven't done that here to see who are the
yeses and you and who are the noes. Many times Um It's not the the ho it's the it's an absent what what do you say? It's a landlord who doesn't want to pay for the road and the poor residents have to drive on it. So um I would I am in favor of fixing this road. It's a main road in this community and Um I would make the motion to approve the PVAS.
Mike Moore
Mr. Chairman, discussion. Mr. Moore.
That was a good c statement that Commissioner Starkey made in reference to who voted yes or no. Are you able to show us since it did fail? Um Were the n did the nose come from one large property owner? Or was it individual homeowners?
Unidentified speakerVoice A
It was individual homeowners, but I'd have to pull the records um to show which parcels.
Mike Moore
Well do we have that and I and I asked that because we have s we have seen and you're right, we have seen some fail before because it may have been one large parcel owner that had 10 ERUs. Yeah. And then it sunk it. I mean at the at the same time, I'll go back to my last statement is if we're gonna have these votes and allow the residents to vote and when they fail we still bring 'em forward To me, it kind of de it it defeats the purpose of allowing the people to vote. I I'm just being honest. You know, it's kind of
like you know, uh hey, we ask you to vote on something. But It doesn't matter. Well it should matter if they are voting. So in this instance, since it was brought up, how do we f uh do we not have Those documents now. That could show us. Okay. So not getting on yet, but that might be good to bring those 'cause you have in the past. Ford, so when that question is asked, we can find out. Because now I'm inclined to vote definitely vote no. Because
those records aren't available.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Yeah, sir. So my I don't know this for a fact, but my guess is that Ainsley was asked that question before you initiated this project.
Mike Moore
May have been, yeah. May have been.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
But I don't have to do that. that that because the board voted to initiate the project to get it to get you here. Yes sir.
Mike Moore
Right. Again, like I said I'm not getting on here or anything. I'm just saying it would probably be just good to have that when that question's asked. So cause so I'll be a no because I would like to know that question.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
I guess one of the questions I'd love to ask Mr. Ch somebody who doesn't want their road fixed is are you willing to not have the county pay for it anymore? Because I'm not clear why We should keep Putting money down a hole. If you don't want your road To be better. Then I think you I I just think we shouldn't go in there anymore.
Christina Fitzpatrick
Back on the question of it lost by three votes, I would like to know how many households voted for it. No, it lost by more than three.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
It's uh
Christina Fitzpatrick
twenty
Unidentified speakerVoice A
two yes to thirty, three zero, no.
Christina Fitzpatrick
Twenty-seven.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Sorry, twenty-two, two two, no votes to three zero. Um sorry, two two yes votes to three zero no votes. I'm sorry. Twenty two twenty-two yes is a
Unidentified speakerVoice D
April.
Christina Fitzpatrick
Because if you have have t uh a sip uh a single person that says yes, but then you have a married couple and they both say no, then do they get it goes by the house.
Ron OakleyChair
No.
Christina Fitzpatrick
It goes towards household.
Ron OakleyChair
It goes by the property.
Mike Moore
Yes. If you don't I don't mind, since we're in discussion, and And I've brought this up before. You know, now the county, this current board, and I mean this started years back before any of us were here, right? I mean, any probably anybody in this room. Um but moving forward, you know, I I think it's really, really important when it comes to planning and and and and when it c master plan communities and developments to make sure that those communities have a way they're going to pay for those com the
community roads going forward, whether it be a C D D or HOA. And I say that because I know you know for a fact there's a couple newer master plane playing communities actually in my district. With a county Still maintains the roads. And they're new developments. It makes absolutely zero, zero, zero sense whatsoever that we actually Allow this to happen now. There should be a way built in whether it be a C D D or HA
to pay for these roads going forward. There has to be. Or you're because all we're gonna do is we're gonna run in the same situation twenty or thirty years down the road. So nothing to do with you guys, you know, but when it comes to planning and what we accept, it's important that we we see this. Because I just I mean, I hate to say it's comical, but it is kinda comical to me that I saw I've seen uh I'm getting already calls from a a few developments that are two or three years old. And home office and saying there's potholes on their roads and they're county maintained roads. Those
roads should never been county maintained if they're a private community. They're built wrong. Yeah. Or they're built wrong by developer. At the same time, you know, it shouldn't it we should not be taking maintenance of any roads at all going forward within residential Master playing communities.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Mr. Chairman Mariano.
But
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
I'm gonna I'm
Unidentified speakerVoice C
gonna follow you
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
on that.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Well, I think that's a good thing. Right now in the land development process there are three ways that you can plat a residential subdivision. You either can Dedicate the roads to the public. That's us. If you have a C D D, we have now gone to the point of saying that C D Ds can't that When I got here, C Ds were dedicating the roads to the county. Right. So that's So
we have moved to moved to that. Or you can have private roads, right, in which case the HOA would maintain them. Right. I The the theory that was in the eighties, probably nineties, where county roads are maintained by homeowners associations. I can't recommend you do that. You either have the choice of them being private
Mike Moore
or
Unidentified speakerVoice C
C D D if you don't want to have them
Mike Moore
Yeah. count. Okay. I mean, you don't look at some where I what I just pile on a little bit. I'll I'll I'll use an example where I live. Um They're all C D maintained. You know, we we pay into it.
Which we all know what road that is, which gives public access from fifty four to Bruce B. Downs and also fifty four to fifty six street.
Public has assets, but the county doesn't even pay for that the C D the deal was made that the C D D would maintain that. The residents maintain the road, that road, which is called H Oak's Boulevard, actually, and the sidewalks 100% within that. So I mean, listen, I mean, kudos to the county when they made that deal with with that community to have that C D D actually maintain that road that the public But again, going back, I mean w we should never accept anything going forward where
the county's gonna accept maintenance of a new master plan community road. It's just ridiculous.
Ron OakleyChair
Well folks that one person that we called on a while ago wasn't there but he is there now to speak on the same P Vest. I need to say something
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
but kinda long speak. It's uh Mr Larry Motto. Um if you could please state your name and address for the record.
Unidentified speakerVoice E
Sorry, can you hear me now?
Ron OakleyChair
We can, yes.
Unidentified speakerVoice E
Okay. Hey it's Larry Motto, [address removed]. I'm I'm one of the people that um that wants the road actually. I was just sitting in on the meeting to see what happens. Um my backyard actually backs into where the uh the water drains into. And um if that's something else we'll address. But I really like the idea of putting a new road in there. My shocks Uh are getting beat up pretty well on all my vehicles. Um I I just think it's it's time. The
the homes in there are very new to see a road deck beat up But uh estimated in that neighborhood. So that's all I wanted to say.
Ron OakleyChair
Okay.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Well I'm very I'm very glad that you took the time to comment because um I've heard from the residents in there that that they're very frustrated that they can't get their road fixed and it's costing them money with their cars. Ska and um You know, it definitely affects your property value when your road looks like heck. So Um I don't I can't remember where we are on this one, but I wanted to say um this this leads to a bigger discussion that We
once had a discussion about different ways to pave to pay for the road paving. And it seems to me that we need to do a workshop on the different opportunities we have. to figure out what is the best way to fix our roads. Because I I don't think there's many counties who do it the way we do. And I think this is a very painful way that we do it. I really do. And I I think we could m do much better for everybody. I
mean I'm facing a P VAS on Aristide. I don't even live there. My mother lives there, but Um I voted for it when when it came through and it failed and though there's some million dollar homes in there and So I but I I have heard from um both of you guys that there are better ways to do it. We just have to have the political will to go ahead and make that change. And I think the county will be better off for it if we modernize the procedure.
Ron OakleyChair
Mr. Mariano?
Jack Mariano
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh Angel, you got a question for you. On the um, it says in the agenda item this 97 lots or 36.77 ERUs. But it all the you said the voting was twenty two to thirty. How c how do you put those numbers together?
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Uh why there were so uh few ERUs? No, you you
Jack Mariano
get 36.7 ERUs, but you've got you got a total of 52 votes. How do you get 52 votes at 36.77 ERUs? It doesn't make sense.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
So you're mixing uh two different things. First of all, um the votes are based on the ballots that are returned to us. So during that 45 day period of the 97 that should have been uh returned to us, only uh 52 came back. And it's what comes back to us counts.
This 36.
Jack Mariano
Hang on for a second, Angelique. Let me just try to clarify. You've got some of these homes that are in there that are assessed at a one ERU. Yeah. And some of them are 0.25 and some are 0.5. And there's other numbers too, I guess. Uh so with that said You're counting a one is the same as the point two five for a vote?
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Yes, that's what the ordinance has to do.
Unidentified speakerVoice F
Always.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Because it we're talking about the vote, but because it's non-contiguous, it's not immediately where it's being paved. It is reduced by 25%. If it's on pay, sorry, if it's um uh not built out, there's no dwelling, there's also a further reduction. So there's uh there's a reason why you have a reduction in the number of ERUs. But but there are two different questions here. Could you
Unidentified speakerVoice C
put
Jack Mariano
each
other?
Can all right, that that that helps with understanding how you get to the votes, et cetera. Now can you put the map up again?
So everybody who's on the main drive coming in is uh at one and the others back in there are at zero. Right. I mean I put a five pretty much.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
All all the ones that are in that purplish uh whatever foos pink. I'm not good at colors, I apologize. But all all the ones that are at that are assessed at a hundred percent. I do not use the word one ERU because remember the assessment is based on the size of the property and the zoning. So I can't blanket say that because it's um pink it's one ERU but it's assessed at a hundred percent so
a property may have two or you know three ERUs for larger properties. The ones in blue are at fifty percent And the ones and green are at 25%. And this is why you have that odd 36.7 some ERUs.
Jack Mariano
So so I I'd say that if I if I knew that the people being s assessed at a hundred percent who could use that road every single day and the others maybe have pretty good roads already that not being affected You know, that that that might sway my vote. Just just as well as I know if people are renting or not. But I think that's where the disparity comes in here, so Um unless it gets continu I'm I'm uh I may leave with the resident commissioner on this thing.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Well you heard it's it's he's be it's beating up his car. And uh did you do a mode? Com I got contacted by numerous people to please help 'em.
Mike Moore
Well that if Wells was here that pink he would say it was silver. So
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
I don't remember where we are.
Mike Moore
There's a motion. There's a motion on the pavement.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Oh, I've a mo I had a motion to pave it. Second. Yes.
Ron OakleyChair
There's a motion and all I need to second or
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
Thank you.
Ron OakleyChair
And I got a second. Uh by roll call vote.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
District two, Commissioner Moore.
Mike Moore
I'm just an A because I want that information to come back like we talked about. So
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
the vast vast majority's at twenty five percent.
Kathryn StarkeyVice Chair
District three, Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District four, Commissioner Fitzpatrick. Aye. District five, Commissioner Mariano. Aye. District One, Chairman Oakley.
Ron OakleyChair
Aye. Motion passed four one. Next item's P fifty nine.

PW-21-0051

Official title

Every appearance1 of 1 are in a recording