UT-21-0542

Every appearance1 of 1 are in a recording

TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 88% of 357 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.

1. 1Aug 24, 2021
   Board of County CommissionersP96Public hearingApproved

   Approved minutes

   Approved Staff’s recommendation with the exception of the bulk rate going from an 80% recovery to a 70% recovery rate which keeps the rates the same for the current year.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 1:50:15
   ▶ 1:50:1559m

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:50:15Items P ninety six was published in the Tampa Times on August eighth, twenty twenty-one and august eleventh, twenty twenty-one.

   1:50:23Okay.

   Justin Grant

   1:50:24Good afternoon. Justin Grant. Director of Public Infrastructure, Fiscal and Business Administration. P ninety six. Is a resolution here we go. Resolution revising the water and wastewater and reclaim water fees and charges providing for an effective date.

   1:50:43All right, uh just a little opening here. Um, that's a picture of uh sign out at our Shady Hills uh wastewater plant. Um just want to note that uh we've uh fared very well with all the big three rating agencies in how we govern and manage the utility. Um so we've we've been noted that we have a very strong financial profile, uh strong service area and affordable rates. Uh that comes from Fitch. Uh they're one of the most strict out of those three, and so that's high praise. So today we're gonna walk, excuse me, we're gonna walk through the big picture of what we're working on with our four-year rate study. And so most of you

   1:51:13have seen this before. This is a similar type structure, why we do this. We came four years ago, so I'll walk you through that and some of our big highlights. You see the revenue requirements, operating costs, capital costs, financial policies that we need there. How do we allocate allocate those costs between residential, commercial, industrial? How do we design the rates? And then how do we implement all those fees and charges needed to support that?

   1:51:38All right, so this is a quick little graph to kind of uh show comparative to the national water and sewer uh CPI you see over the period of about the last 10 years, a fifty-four percent increase, whereas our rate rate increases are only at thirty-two percent, and so you see a nice Twenty-two percent Delta here. I'm waiting for the slide to advance.

   1:52:00My apologies. The clicker is pausing here for a minute. There we go. Yeah, well thank you, Todd. Dramatic effect. So 22% Delta uh versus the pace of of the rest of the country. And so we remain affordable. Um it's notable that when we compare that to an affordability metric that Fitch uses, we're only at 1.89% median household income. Whereas their target is about four percent. All right, this slide walks us through uh our average bill. Currently it's at $79. With this increase,

   1:52:31it'll go to eighty one dollars and thirty cents. Um that increase uh relative, and I know it may be tough to see, um, you have the slides in front of you, but that uh that chart there on the right uh looks at some of the um other area utilities and what their rate increases are. As you can see, we have a very moderate uh one and a half and three and a half percent uh across the rate. the next four years that's one and a half percent for water, three and a half percent for sewer and reclaim. Um relative to our our peers and what their rate increases that are planned over the next uh four years we will not change our position in the

   1:53:01bottom third of where we stand with those other relative utilities.

   1:53:08All right, so this walks through uh some of the reasons that we do this, right? We're looking at customer growth and what's happening. Um obviously we're all subject to what we see um in the media in our daily lives with inflation. Uh that certainly affects the utility as well. And so, in order to uh to support all the different things that we have going on, um obviously we have a four almost a four hundred million dollar capital plan over the next couple years, um, with a large portion of that, over half of that. going towards growth related activities to support the utility, it's crucial to have a four-year structure in place that's able to

   1:53:38collect the appropriate amount of revenue to support those activities.

   1:53:44Okay, so um relative to The last structure here. Um for the last four years. The notable change here is we're taking a little bit of a different look here to amend our reclaim rates. And so previously you had $10.73 was your residential reclaim rate that allowed for unlimited consumption as well as your backflow device. Fee charge. We're looking at changing that base charge to be eleven dollars a month, that will include up to ten thousand gallons worth of consumption. Um, and for every

   1:54:14um thousand gallons of consumption above the ten thousand gallons would only be another dollar ten. And so for someone that um is using fifteen thousand gallons, that would only equate to just over five dollars. In additional structure. And so you look at cost recovery, right? It's notable that when we look at our reclaim structure, changes like this are necessary both to balance the demand on the system between bulk and retail as well as to try and achieve a better cost recovery parameter. You look at retail rates that have historically

   1:54:45been subsidized by the rest of the utility versus the rates that we do charge.

   1:54:52All right. And so Bring in uh here for a summary, uh one and a half and three and a half for the next four years, just as we had done for the past four years. Um No other structural changes other than reclaim. Bulk rates will uh will adopt cost of service here in 22 and then index along with the rest of the plan and other fees will go in as well with miscellaneous charges that are updated every four years.

   1:55:17Recommendation from the utility is to adopt the 2021 rate study and the resolution outlining the adjustment to fees, rates, and charges for utility services for the fiscal years twenty-two through twenty-five.

   Mariano

   1:55:29Mr. Chairman Mariano.

   OakleyChair

   1:55:30Yeah.

   Mariano

   1:55:32Um question for you. Yes, sir. And then we had this discussion when we talked about reclaim rates. Yes, sir. Um And my concern is golf courses. Um, you know, Magnolia Valley, Timber Oaks all went under. I would say all for cost, but Cost is a factor. Gulf Coast is a struggling now completely. We have got a market for reclaim water now which we didn't have before when we set all these reclaim provisions up. The rates that they used to pay Uh were substantially less. Um I don't think it would be a dramatic hit in the rate

   1:56:02structure. I'll let you comment to that in a second. But I want to give you another thought to think about which just kinda like Clicked right now for me. Um if the golf courses could use more well water as opposed to using our reclaim water. It's better for them anyway for the final product. Do you think we could work with the golf courses in the next year or so to try to get Swiftman to allow them to pump more water whi w wh where they would need to use ours and that would enable us to even Um Let other people use reclaim water

   1:56:32they may want

   Mike Carballa

   1:56:32to. So that's a little more complicated because uh clearly we have agreements with the Water Management District and so if there were agreements in place to do reclaim projects, uh then that would probably float contrary to those agreements. Uh you know, whether or not golf courses I I believe it's part of the consumptive use process is alternative sources. So they would have to show how that is not feasible. The district has a process for that and I mean that's on its surface. I'm

   1:57:03I'm I'm not sure we should be involved

   Mariano

   1:57:04in that.

   Mike Carballa

   1:57:05But

   Mariano

   1:57:06the situation though, the they're struggling right now. We've had a couple closed down. I mean the Lynx Golf Course shut down, causing all sorts of people, you know, a a tremendous drop in quality of life. And other than this big push for property values going through the roof. you would have seen a drop in values, which what does affect the tax base for everybody. Um and and Commissioner Oakley, you sat on Swift Mont, so you have more probably knowledge to this, so I'll I'll defer to you a little bit as well. But If there's a way we can help then one way or the other. If you're not going to be able to do All the reclaim water is going to be used even if the golf coasters

   1:57:37don't use it.

   John Pennington

   1:57:38Who

   Mariano

   1:57:38let's go try to work with SwiftMund to try to help them increase their consumptive use permits that they can get. If not, tell me what the rates would be if we did set them back to the rates that what they were six, seven years ago.

   Justin Grant

   1:57:52Sure. So so we rough we ran a rough scenario that would be about that. So if we cut uh by 50% to go back to that and we to achieve the cost recovery that we're aiming to do, if we shifted that balance over to the retail side of things, that would take that eleven dollars that we looked at and bring that to about twelve seventy. And so instead of the dollar ten for every additional thousand gallons, that would bring that to about a dollar twenty-seven.

   1:58:18So and the other notable good thing is is so we've got a 72 rate, uh 72 cent rate and a 36 cent rate that offers for differences in um with and without storage and pumping. And so the golf courses do have that lower rate. And so we verified, I think we sent your office over some details on some of the rates that those current courses are paying, and they are on that lower rate right now.

   OakleyChair

   1:58:40Okay. Let me add something to that. Uh I think Lake Trevita, that's public well right there that they have public water. Lakes read a golf course.

   Mike Carballa

   1:58:50I believe Lake Javita has some reclaim for sure. And well. Well they have and well. They have a combination.

   OakleyChair

   1:59:01They couldn't get enough water through their well system to provide the golf course then and what else they needed. So the fact that they wanted reclaim because that was gonna give them the ability with their well for potable water or more usage and they were having an issue with their consumptive use permit. on that well. So this this provided where they could use that that were like they should.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:59:25Mo most of the golf courses historically from the nineties water use caution areas when they got public supply reclaimed water their wo consumptive use permits were ratcheted down to emergency use only. And so they They literally can only use them if w if the municipal supplier has a failure that they can't get them more. Right. And

   1:59:56it would have to unwind all of that. Um

   2:00:01Basically conservation that the water management district has done for the last thirty years to to get them Back on groundwater.

   Mariano

   2:00:08And again again, I'm not I didn't really want to change that, but it was a thought I had going through. But uh again, the financial viability of a golf course is really tough right now. Uh people are doing other things and not bringing up kids like they used to. You know, I I I grew up as a caddy, that's how I kinda got in the game. There's no more caddies, there's carts anymore. So that thirty year plan of not having those kids stay involved. is having an effect. I think there's gonna be still a strong golf course market uh for years to come. But again the financial viability, especially in Pasco County, they're struggling.

   2:00:39And I don't want to see any more golf courses close if there's ways to make it happen. I'd like to see us take a look at you know bringing the rates down. So if you would maybe Show us uh how the numbers would affect the total.

   Justin Grant

   2:00:52Okay. Um the only other notable point I'd I'd make would be looking at the indexes. Um so it's two point nine percent change uh for the golf courses right now, so it is a little bit sub where we're looking at reclaim indexing at three and a half percent, but we can certainly look at those other numbers and get back to you.

   Mariano

   2:01:07All right. So th that's not the numbers I'm l I'm talking about. I'm talking going back to the Previous levels are like fifty percent less.

   Justin Grant

   2:01:13Right. So so when we talked about in turn if we're aiming to achieve the cost recovery, that end result would end up if you shift that if you go cut that fifty percent, you shift that over to the resale side, that would take that eleven dollars to twelve seventy and up to a dollar twenty-seven.

   County Administrator

   2:01:27So a ten percent increase to the retail rate payer.

   2:01:32Okay.

   Mariano

   2:01:39But that's that's putting it in a silo. Because years ago, as As Mike will tell you, it was a loser big time. You were trying to reca re you know you were trying to make money on the reclaim money. Years ago it was just a loser loser. We did it for the environmental reasons for all the right stuff. Now we try to make it where it doesn't cost as much money. But it's for the good of the whole system, good of the whole county that we actually raise the rates up to try to collect that extra money. I didn't like going up that high then. I still don't like them being up this high now. If you spread it amongst the general

   2:02:09rates across everything, what would that affect be?

   Justin Grant

   2:02:14Taking that entire uh increase and then spreading across the

   Mariano

   2:02:18seventy-nine dollars and one cent? Would it go to like seventy-nine dollars and two cents? Is my question.

   Mike Carballa

   2:02:23So you're suggesting then that the reclaim rates for retail or whatever, we we would spread it across all customer classes, sewer, water, because right now sewer subsidizes the reclaim program.

   Mariano

   2:02:37Correct.

   Mike Carballa

   2:02:38So and and so in the past, we've achieved just over fifty percent cost recovery, more or less, and our consultant can talk a little bit more about those numbers. We're targeting a higher a higher recovery rate to lessen the subsidy. Thus the reclaim customers are actually paying what what is fair. So right now we've targeted 70 percent to avoid a shock. In part two, because quite honestly, as we've seen uh during May and in fact when we were were were running on shortages, the the reclaim water has become a fairly valuable commodity. And so part of the reason

   2:03:08of of bringing these costs in here too is is to provide some Some some cost uh um uh

   Justin Grant

   2:03:15demand management.

   Mike Carballa

   2:03:16Demand management, thank you. Uh by by actually getting away from the all you can use for a flat rate model. And and I think you know our consultants can talk about, you know, we'll we'll figure out what that elasticity is once once we once we implement that. If if we were to si I don't believe that we really have an analysis where we looked at Put spreading it across all of that. I mean, we did look at within the reclaim structure itself, if we were to move it from this class, if we were to cut bulk rates by half, you would see an increase on the retail

   2:03:46class. I mean, basically to achieve the same number. And those are the numbers that Justin has put forward.

   Mariano

   2:03:51And again, years ago when these golf courses came into play, they helped us getting rid of the reclaim water. They helped us. We they were doing us a favor. Exactly. So they did us a favor, the business plan went along the way. When all of a sudden demand came up, we changed the deal. What happens to the golf course now is now they're paying the highest, you know, a m much higher reclaim rate rate. But they don't have the option to go back to using You know, well water. So it's like You know, I I I don't I really I think these golf courses

   2:04:21add value.

   2:04:24I don't think you're gonna see a major exodus on people building more golf courses, so we need to keep the ones we've got. Um And I just like I said I think If we look at the broad race. And what that difference would be, it'd be a lot fairer to go than to take the reclaimed customers now who are helping us offset the loss that we used to have. But at the same time you spread it amongst everybody, I gotta think it's gotta be a very minuscule number. On that seventy nine dollar number, what it would be. if you did just that one segment for the golf courses to what that number would

   2:04:54be. So it would be like seventy nine dollars and A couple of

   Justin Grant

   2:04:58cents more or where would we be? So what what might be two two quick points? Uh one, Mike, I think kind of talked a little bit about the system demand and system load back in twenty eleven versus twenty twenty. Uh when we looked at those numbers, right? Roughly increasing somewhere in the neighborhood of 17 to 20 percent. We're above ninety-five percent, hovering around ninety-seven percent in terms of the demand on the reclaim. Whereas we were hovering around seventy percent in the period of time you're talking. about it in early 2000s. If you'll allow, it might be helpful. We've got Jeff Jeff Dijkster here with Stantec Consulting, who's our rate consultant. He

   2:05:28can talk a little bit about um how other utilities and regions handle golf courses and municipal rates.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:05:36Yeah, good afternoon. Jeff Dijkstra with Stantech. A couple of uh just points to make.

   2:05:42Um currently your bulk re uh bulk reclaim water rates are about eighty percent cost recovery. So even at their current levels and the proposed levels, um not fully not fully cost re not fully recovering their cost. So with the proposed rate structure that we have here is really an adjustment on the retail side to increase retail cost recovery with this new structure. To be closer in line with the bulk cost recovery. So if you were to, for example, reduce bulk rates by 50%. they would drop from maybe eighty percent down to

   2:06:12about forty percent cost recovery. Um Well retail is going up. So you're kind of inverting we're trying to catch retail up to bulk currently with this structure. Whereas with that with that approach you'd basically flip the the paradigm. Um and as as uh Mike mentioned, currently sewers Uh subsidizing reclaim water at the moment.

   Mariano

   2:06:34Yeah, I I mean I understand what the method is. I just think it's hurting a business that used to help us, now we've trap them with swift mud and water consumption to go the

   Joel

   2:06:44Yeah,

   Mariano

   2:06:45and then and then I think the net effect would be if you're gonna have Let's uh well just go back to the other the first idea I had out there as far as getting in to allow pump more water. the people are going to use a s certain amount of water anyway. Whether mo you know whether it's reclaimed water or not. It might even enable us if we want the to my first suggestion. that they would use the the people would use more reclaim water. We would make more revenue to that end if it kept even the rates the same if we helped them be able to pump more water instead.

   2:07:16But I un I understand it's cost recovery. And again it we we d we were As a county we did a phenomenal job leading the way in reclaim water I think around the nation. So we did a lot of great things. I'm just saying that the effect right now is golf courses are struggling. With with numbers. You know, our demographics don't support golf courses like they do in Penulsa Hillsboro. So the dollars that are going out there are affecting what's gonna happen in the future. And I don't want to see him get penalized any heavier. Not this this may be the bottom line or not, but everything's gonna matter.

   2:07:47So if there's a way to structured. I'd just like kinda like to hear that number what it would be.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:07:51Yeah. The revenue impact the approximate revenue impact of that on the system is about between five and six hundred thousand dollars. Um so if you just today if you took bulk bulk rates, cut them in half. It's about a five or six hundred thousand dollars.

   2:08:06About

   Mariano

   2:08:06uh about five hundred and fifty thousand dollars of rent. If you spread that o over the whole utility, not just the reclaim, what would that number be?

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:08:14Can you do?

   Mariano

   2:08:15Well that's right.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:08:17Are you saying are you saying what would the increase be to recover the additional five hundred thousand from the Right. So right now we're

   Mariano

   2:08:24at seventy-nine dollars

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:08:25Yeah, for a typical bill.

   Mariano

   2:08:26So $79 now, and And I I don't have the slide right in front of me, but seventy nine dollars.

   2:08:33Eighty one thirty?

   Susan Matheson

   2:08:34Mm-hmm.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:08:34All

   Mariano

   2:08:34right, so we're at eight eighty one thirty. If you took that number just for the golf courses. What would that affect that number to be?

   Mike Carballa

   2:08:46So Jeff, I think I I if if I understand correctly, if if we were just to what you're asking is is maintaining the Bulk rate at Whatever the Yeah, we go back to some baseline, cut it in half. then and we're not making that revenue up other than through just it would be subsidized by the sewer customers, I mean ultimately. So that would be half a million dollars onto the sewer customers, which means that I mean it it'd probably be a b uh a blip in terms of a percentage on the sewer customer, Jeff. I I don't know, but that I think that's really where

   2:09:16the number that the commissioner's looking for.

   Mariano

   2:09:18Yeah, I don't want to hurt the r I don't want I don't want to affect the retail customers on the on the reclaimed. I'm just trying to help the golf courses save money. If you spread it amongst everything, what would that number be? When he's done checking it in. I'm we're still waiting for an answer though. Well I can I can

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:09:32see legally I can see tying it to the sewer customer because the sewer c you are generating reclaimed water.

   Mariano

   2:09:39Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:09:40I have a problem when you're starting to put it on the potable water customer.

   Mariano

   2:09:44That's what I

   2:09:44was saying.

   2:09:45Okay.

   Justin Grant

   2:09:47Okay, that's fine. That's exactly what we would do reclaim as a product of wastewater and so

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:09:52we

   Justin Grant

   2:09:52didn't.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:09:53Sorry. Thank you.

   Mariano

   2:09:57I'd like to just

   Justin Grant

   2:09:58get the answer though.

   Mariano

   2:09:58So now that we know where we can go, we've got to go with the sewer. What would that number be on the sewer, right?

   Justin Grant

   2:10:02We'll run the numbers. If we were to have to do that right, three and a half percent probably would go up by and you know, I don't know, go to three point six, three point six five. I'm not sure exactly what that figure would be um if we're gonna do that, but that's where it would have to go. We'd have to go on that sewer rate. So currently three and a half percent, it would uptick that by a nominal amount.

   Mariano

   2:10:21How how quick can you make the d the calculation?

   Justin Grant

   2:10:24If there's another comment we can try and run that right- I'll just go

   Moore

   2:10:27on my jam. And I this is probably for Mr. Steinschneider. Obviously th this utility funds are I mean they're encumbered. We cannot use those funds. We cannot take those and put 'em in the general fund. We cannot no, this is a question. I'm not saying we want to do this, but just to kind of prove a point, taking general fund dollars and putting in a utility fund is a no no as well.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:10:48I that is that has been generally my position with the standalone

   2:10:58Enterprises. Enterprise accounts, yes. Right.

   Moore

   2:11:00So the objective of uh the Pasco County Utilities is not to make money, the objective is super cost recovery, right? So can you back up two slides, maybe three for me real quick? Slide three. Yes sir. Let's try. Wait, let me see. Yeah, well one more if you don't mind. We may get there. Two. Maybe one more.

   2:11:24This one?

   2:11:27I'm looking for the increase. Oh okay.

   Justin Grant

   2:11:30Yeah.

   Moore

   2:11:32Nope.

   2:11:37The one slide that has all the increases. I apologize.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:11:40That might be where it was.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:11:43That's not being increased.

   Moore

   2:11:46Mm-hmm. Right here. The region? region? Nope. That's not that. You had a a list of all

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:11:53Could Could be your summary that you were

   Moore

   2:11:54maybe a summary.

   2:12:00So we're still we're still on the same Yeah.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:12:01Yeah, that specific question during

   Moore

   2:12:11So we talk about connection fees. Um Yeah, we've had this discussion as a board on on numerous issues, you know, how much should new growth be able to pay its for itself so our current customers aren't paying more for the additional and new growth, right? So we look at connection fees, how much are the is this increase in connection fees do you feel and we had this conversation, so I guess it's really for the rest of the board and the people watching at home, can offset what possibly could have be necessary

   2:12:42additional increases across the board. Whether it be sewer, whether it be reclaimed.

   Justin Grant

   2:12:52So on Increase in connection fees. Right. So connection fees, so I don't want to um mix up the two issues. Um we did have this discussion. You're absolutely right, sir. Um so today is to adopt the four-year structure. We will be coming back about a month. We're going through the structure right now, working with the county attorney's office, moving things around with the ordinance land development code. We'll be coming back in a month, and I believe we'll finalize October 26th.

   2:13:18So this board will have an opportunity to review connection fees in detail in the balance that you're talking about. And so our goal here today is to adopt the four-year structure in order to have that separate discussion because yes, you correct, right? Growth is out of balance, right? Current connection fees do not recover enough uh to cover what growth is costing the utility to expand.

   Moore

   2:13:36So in essence you're having to dip into your fund.

   Justin Grant

   2:13:43So yes, sir. The current the current water and sewer rate structure, because connection fees do not recover cost, this rate structure has to pick up some of that bill to be able to do that.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:13:53In this slide, when you're talking about connection fees, are you talking about the rebranded connection fees? So that you that we haven't

   Justin Grant

   2:14:01So the rate study that we've completed um calculates those fees. We are not bringing those fees together for the board for adoption. So

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:14:09you will come back

   Justin Grant

   2:14:09later this

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:14:10month. So yeah, but are you really are you really talking about impact fee? Or are you talking about it? What used to be called connection fees, but now you're moving to moving impact fee into that same rubric.

   Justin Grant

   2:14:24So separate, yeah, so separate actions, right? And so right now we're working together with with your office um and all the different parties, right? Ordinance development team, all of that, um, impact fee to connection fees, that will be a separate action coming into in.

   Moore

   2:14:38So with just to continue the conversation, um is is there a way or is there a possibility With impact fee, connection fees, whatever we'll call them. to offset some of the cost. to our general customer when it comes to their charge you know, their charges on water and or sewer or reclaimed. Is it possible for any of those funds to be moved over to offset any possible

   2:15:08increases or or increases in the future? So if

   Justin Grant

   2:15:11I understand your

   Moore

   2:15:13correct.

   2:15:22That look, you know, where you're trying to do a problem in your head.

   Mike Carballa

   2:15:28No, I I I um currently I I don't think we carry much of and What we're going to be calling connection fees, former impact fee as you may know them, balances on those. We we are we are using those one hundred percent. So there there's really You know, there there's there's uh but I guess the essence of your question is is if we raise the connection fees. Is there a corresponding decrease in the

   Moore

   2:15:57Could there potentially be? What would I guess the cost of that be? You may not be able to answer that question.

   Mike Carballa

   2:16:02Yeah, I can't answer it because I haven't looked at the numbers. I would defer to our rate consultant on that one.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:16:08So it so if the question is an impact fee Well, can an impact fee? Pay for the cost of new growth. That's what an impact fee is designed to do. Absent what the legislature did to us this last session. Um So in theory you can capture your cost for new growth Capture the cost of plan expansion. capture the cost of of anything you that

   2:16:39That they're paying At the time they pull a building permit. If there is the will to charge that much. Most times you most times most jurisdictions have Draw have written down some of that cost because it gets it gets pretty cheap. But legally you could

   Moore

   2:17:01So it's

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:17:01calculate one that way.

   Moore

   2:17:03But could you could you actually use that any fund balance? To offset any other additional costs that are related to those connections.

   Mike Carballa

   2:17:13I mean, I think unrestricted. Numbers and accounts we could use.

   Justin Grant

   2:17:18So I apologize I missed some of what you were stating, but the the getting deep in the weeds. Sure, sure. So impact fee, the way they're defined, right? We have we do have bond covenants, so we'd have to look at it a lot. Most of that, anything that's collected in impact fee and and we're going through the definitions of connection. Fees. Those are restricted funds, right? So we call them kind of red money, and they're intended only for those certain purposes. So water impact fees are only allowed to uh to fund water expansion, wastewater, same thing. And so you can't so if your question, if I understand you correctly, is could

   2:17:48we use balances from those funds if we were to adjust all those maybe upwards, right, to offset some of what we're doing today for one and a half and three and a half? Right. The answer would be no. Right. I'd have to coordinate make sure. But those are restricted funds you couldn't use impact fee to save the five years.

   Moore

   2:18:03Easy

   Justin Grant

   2:18:03enough.

   Moore

   2:18:04Okay. Answered my question. Thank you. Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:18:06Mariano. Yes, sir. Yes.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:18:07Okay, but all also at the same time with new growth, new developments and new communities, they are required to run this require the reclaimed water lines as they're running the potable water lines.

   OakleyChair

   2:18:24No.

   Mike Carballa

   2:18:25It's very specific. It's based upon a number of things, Commissioner, when we require reclaim water. Um size of the community, location of lines. It's very much a judgment call. Um You know, as we as we move forward. In field developments we may not necessarily require it as a general rule, that's our first approach.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:18:44When looking into specific new growth and new development if it meets specific requirements y

   2:18:54Yes,

   Richard Emmons

   2:18:54ma'am.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:18:55Um we had discussed that the new growth when they m meet certain specific uh specified requirements, they had to run the reclaimed water lines with the potable water lines.

   Justin Grant

   2:19:07You you're talking about new development that that comes in. So yeah, this was one of the things that we're doing.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:19:11And they meet specific requirements.

   Mike Carballa

   2:19:13I mean I could I I mean we could speak to that. I mean you know the the the the county codes and land development code specifies when potable water is needed and and of course we're we're de we've we're developing specific standards for reclaim and working with with the building industry on that. But if if We determine that reclaim water is appropriate. Um the developer runs the pipe at their costs. We do not c recover uh our impact fee are not calculated to recover that that cost of that pipe. We

   2:19:43we look to the development community to build the pipe, we build the plants.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:19:46So that should help offset some of the new growth costs. Because the developer is now putting in the reclaimed water lines.

   Mike Carballa

   2:19:54Uh correct. We we normally would would not pay for those anyways. We would we would push that. Now in some in some I'm not saying that's Case in all cases, because there's always specific things, but in general We we look to cover our plant expansion costs with the connection fees.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:20:12And then going back talking about the unlimited reclaimed water, it used to be eleven dollars for every ten thousand gallons. I'm recapping.

   Justin Grant

   2:20:20No ma'am. So the 1073 under the former rate structure. So 1073, and I believe it was 522, correct, on a backflow fee uh charge. That was the old retail rate structure. And so that allowed for paying those fees, you could use as much as you needed to. And so now under the current structure, it would be $11 for up to $10,000 gallons, dollar ten for any additional.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:20:41Correct. So you originally had a limited use of the reclaimed water.

   Justin Grant

   2:20:46Cor the old rate structure did, yes ma'am.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:20:49It's eleven dollars up to ten thousand gallons and then at one dollar and ten cents for additional one thousand gallons. Now going back because I had specifically asked you during the meeting as well. when it comes to the golf courses and everything else. It was thirty six cents and seventy two cents, so If they housed their own and stored their own water, it was only thirty six cents per gallon because it was only half per thousand gallons. And at that time I thought you also said that those rates did not increase or they only went

   2:21:19up like a couple cents.

   Justin Grant

   2:21:21So they only yes, so they only went up two point nine percent. That's what we were we were just talking about. They um I believe each one increases by about a penny. Correct. One and two pennies? Correct. Yeah. Okay. Because

   2:21:36those are not your retail customers. And so the developments that you were that Mike was describing with those new housing developments would not be subject to that rate if they were doing individual Meters.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:21:47Correct. So it wouldn't jeopardize because it wouldn't be changing the structure for the golf courses. They're gonna still be paying around the same amount that they've been paying.

   Justin Grant

   2:21:56Correct. So so even the golf courses would on average have Would on average have about a two point nine percent, right? So if you look at um so I'm just gonna pick one, right? So um Lexington Lexington Oaks, right? If you look at their current consumption, right, they're gonna be looking at about an eighteen dollar, almost nineteen dollar difference in their bill. Overall, a month? Correct.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:22:20Of an increase?

   Justin Grant

   2:22:22Yes.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:22:22Because I thought you had said it was only going up a penny per gallon.

   Justin Grant

   2:22:26So per thousand gallons, right? So their user right, based on their average usage habits, we did some of that research and it looks like it's for them it would be about a nineteen gallon. Nineteen dollar uh increase per month. So two point nine percent is the is the relative figure for all those golf courses.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:22:43Discussed at the beginning, we wanted to encourage as many people to switch over to reclaim water, so we wanted to have the least amount of impact on the developments and the golf courses. that agreed to use the reclaimed water.

   Justin Grant

   2:22:56I I'm not sure I understand your question, ma'am.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:23:00We wanted to impact. the least amount on the golf courses, we don't want to increase their rates so drastic that it was gonna have a negative impact on them. And that's why you had said it was only a couple cents difference when charging into the new tax Structure or built structure.

   Justin Grant

   2:23:17So c correct. So 2.9 is a is a nominal rate increase, uh 2.9% relative to those bulk rates. And so the the the major change you're looking at is actually that slide right there. And so when we look at the re retail structure, and our consultant just kind of mentioned that a little bit, the change in cost recovery relative to what we spend to support that program, uh their cost recovery percentage is remaining equal to the old rate structure. And so that penny and two pennies that we're talking about is on par with what it costs us to support that program. We're shifting a little bit of, and like Mike talked about

   2:23:47a little bit, with demand management, right, because we've got that additional load on the system, we want to be able to support the retail customers as well. At the same time, right, we just discussed wastewater subsidizes that. And so that's what we're trying to change. So To to put a brief point on your answer, right, uh two point nine percent is rising right along with the cost it it costs us to support that program.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:24:09Because we wanted to continue and uh to encourage people to continue to use the reclaimed water. So we don't want to increase the rates too drastic, especially for the golf courses or other

   Justin Grant

   2:24:20Sure. So we we want to we

   2:24:21want

   2:24:21to encourage use, but we want to encourage responsible use, right? And so when we look at that's kind of one of the big drivers when we look at the retail side of things and we talked a little bit about the load on the system, um when you have that unlimited structure, right? Sometimes you have folks on the higher end of the curve that are consuming, you know, more than their you know fair share of reclaim, if you will. Um and so putting this there just ends up being a little bit of a signal, right? 10,000 gallons. of the median in terms of consumption for retail and so um that that hopefully is allowing to balance that equation out. Does

   2:24:51that answer your question, ma'am?

   Fitzpatrick

   2:24:53Thank you.

   Justin Grant

   2:24:57Mm-hmm.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:25:02Awesome. Yeah, so we just crunch some quick numbers. Um relative to your question on the the impact on the sewer rates, um be looking about a four instead of a three and a half percent next year, it'd be a four percent. And that would be about a thirty cent increase on the overall uh bill that you saw. So instead of about eighty one thirty in twenty twenty two, it would be uh about eighty one sixty. Well you know. So right

   Mariano

   2:25:27now it would be eight it's eighty one thirty. It would go up to eighty-one sixty.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:25:32Eighty one fifty-eight exactly.

   Mariano

   2:25:34Okay, so twenty eight. So twenty twenty-eight cents, I mean, I think that's a good thing I think when someone looks at a bill it's not a That's pretty minuscule.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:25:45And that's compared to if everyone paid the additional twenty eight cents, which is minus school, um Compared to them. their bills going up eighteen dollars a month, like Lexington Oakes.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:25:57No the the eighty one the eighty one dollars that's referenced, that's a homeowner, a residential homeowner. Yep.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:26:05If we increase everyone's bill twenty eight cents, then Lexington Oaks wouldn't go up to eighteen dollars because everyone would be absorbing it.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:26:12Correct. The the rate would actually be reduced in half roughly from the current

   Mariano

   2:26:17um

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:26:18current bill.

   Mariano

   2:26:20Okay. So the so the golf courses would get a benefit of rolling back to what they used to pay on the origin initial agreements on when they agreed to lower their water consumption down. So someone's total monthly bill they're gonna get goes from eighty one thirty to eighty one fifty eight. I think it's worthwhile to Lower lower to that. Bring it to that number.

   Justin Grant

   2:26:43So the the notable thing there, um just one thing to add on that would be that would be for all bills, for whether they are reclaimed customers or not. If we do that, that would be for all water sewer customers, it would be on the sewer side of that bill.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:26:57I I'm a little uncomfortable with that 'cause you're picking out one group of people to subsidize That makes me a little uncomfortable. You're not

   Mariano

   2:27:05you're not subsidizing though. This is these are if you

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:27:08cut their

   2:27:08own.

   Mariano

   2:27:11All right. So let's let's take a look. F years ago, I'll go back to five years, what they were paying. So the number there on the chart would have been from eighty percent to forty percent. There was a major bump that they took. Years ago. Many years ago. Not you, but the bo the board that was previously here, I think. So that that n they took a a very strong jump and they had no way to offset what they were going to do. They were doing the right thing using reclaim water. And they had to cut down their water consumptive use permit

   2:27:41for the good of The county. Now they're paying and still have been paying. They're paying eighty percent cost recovery. The other reclaim rates are still at You know, they were at, let's say, just over fifty percent. They're still going to be under seventy percent. They have been shouldering the burning for years, and again, the first thing is that the first thing You had Magnolia Valley go down? Timber Oak went down. The links has gone down. Um and it's all about money. money, or mostly about money as far as

   OakleyChair

   2:28:09well

   Mariano

   2:28:09these things go. If they can't make money, they're gonna go under

   OakleyChair

   2:28:11I don't think it was uh reclaimed water causing that issue. Yeah.

   Mariano

   2:28:14Not n n as I say not exclusively that, but you're throwing an extra burden on these guys have been for years when they were there helping stormwater situations quite a bit. Now I said, now it's like shoes on the other foot. Now they're struggling. where they could take care of the cost before? We don't have the same demographics of golf as we used to have. And now they're struggling. Do you want to see another golf course go down?

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:28:37Mm um Mr. Uh Chairman M administrator wants to say something. Dan's been waiting to say something.

   County Administrator

   2:28:45Well I was just checking if if we're not going to be able to do We did what Commissioner Mariano recommended. I was asking what that cost recovery subsidy chart looks like. Would it cause right now they're roughly eighty percent and those so they'd roughly go to forty percent, so the sewer customer would be subsidizing sixty percent of their bill instead of twenty percent of the bill.

   Justin Grant

   2:29:03Yeah, you're increasing yeah, Sumer's picking up more of the tap and they're picking up less here and water side, on the potable

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:29:10side.

   2:29:12Yeah, so one one of the things I mentioned earlier, if you look at this graph too, that's interesting, um, so bulk is at about eighty percent cost recovery right now. On and so with the proposed rates. With the retail structure, we're getting that up to about um just under seventy percent. So instead of this dynamic where you're

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:29:31no

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:29:32Flipping that. Um one up one opportunity may be to d reduce the bulk to seventy percent more in line with the retail. Um so while the bulk rates wouldn't be cut in half, you could see, you know, a at least a little bit of a reduction in there that would have less of an impact on Steward just just as an option. I

   Mariano

   2:29:49I I'd even favor s something of a of a concession for these guys 'cause they are carrying the load and they have been for many years.

   2:30:03So rough numbers you would go from twenty eight cents to probably about

   2:30:11Fourteen cents?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:30:11Yeah, we're I'm running it right now, but get your number here if you're a little bit.

   Mariano

   2:30:14But now you're it now instead of being eighty one thirty, you'd be about eighty one forty four. And line to where we're going to be able to do that Others are.

   County Administrator

   2:30:28I I yes Commissioner the I understand your point and they're they'll run the numbers for you. I guess from a policy perspective

   2:30:38the sewer customer, whether they have reclaimed or not, is subsidizing the bulk customer twenty percent of their bill. And they're subsidizing the Reclaimed retail customer.

   Moore

   2:30:50Thirty five.

   County Administrator

   2:30:51Thir well thirty percent under the new rates, but about forty percent under the current bill. So those are people that may the sewer customer that may have reclaimed and the sewer customer that does not have reclaimed, correct? Right.

   Justin Grant

   2:31:02It's all sewer customers.

   County Administrator

   2:31:03It's all sewer customers. So you'll

   2:31:08I guess from a policy perspective, ultimately where does that subsidy where do you want that non s reclaimed customer from a sewer the sewer customer that doesn't get reclaimed, how much should they actually subsidize the reclaimed system? Today you're subsidizing it to a tune of twenty percent and forty percent. I mean ultimately do you want that substitute to be zero or do you want that substitute to be somewhere in You know, the n the average what, eighty percent?

   Mariano

   2:31:35Mr. Chairman, let me flip the table on you. Take a look at If you didn't have the reclaimed customers, your sewer rates would be higher.

   2:31:45So they're helping the reclaimed customers are actually helping lower the sewer bills, is how it's really working. It has been for a while. And again, these golf courses took the brunt of it. Five, six years ago when we Really escalated their rates. So much so that they've been higher than even the retail people who do want to get it.

   County Administrator

   2:32:05And again, my first so you

   Mariano

   2:32:06know my first choice is to let them go pump other water rather than stuck with this.

   County Administrator

   2:32:16I think the other the other thing to think about is, you know, we are at a point now where Reclaim is a valuable resource and if we don't do some kind of consumption charge, which is what we're proposing May what happened in May where our retail customers could not get reclaimed at certain parts of the day because we were out. will spread to m May in April and June because we will run out of that resource and so we gotta go to a consumptive charge. Because right now the only thing that tells you you can't water

   2:32:46more than once a day or our conservation rules and it's a code violation. There is no penalty if somebody uses reclaim five days a week, other than a code Yeah.

   Justin Grant

   2:32:57Exactly what he's talking about. Those two numbers I I quoted earlier, right? When we look at twenty eleven, right, there was roughly seventy percent average demand on the system, we're above ninety five percent now, right? When we look at that, and that's why you had that I mean ninety seven was the run number I ran just last night.

   OakleyChair

   2:33:10Um so that's the challenge.

   Moore

   2:33:13And you made a you just brought up a good point about um having to lower the pressure. We're reclaiming.

   2:33:22I have quite a bit of commu uh communities in my neck of the woods. Um I know Commissioner Starkey does and Commissioner Fitzpatrick beginning at you do as well. Um because either new developments are required to have reclaimed. But I got a new large number of emails and calls and com I hate to call them complaints, but concerns um from customers wondering why Their pressure was down. talk to people in the in the uh say the irrigation

   2:33:52industry, right? Um For example, a gentleman that was came to my house to repair um my irrigation system. Um once we got into conversation and he found out what I did, he started asking he goes, man, he goes, I'm going on jobs every day. He goes, but I can't do the job because the pressure's not high enough for me to actually put the irrigation in and test if it's working. Um we don't want to go back to that, is my point. As well as some of the C D D and Master Plan communities, I was

   2:34:22getting calls from um C D's, chairs, HOA chairs, um about their concerns and not being able to again the pressure, not watering. flowers, you know, foliage, all that, you know, dying and not looking up to par. So we definitely can't have that happen. We don't want to see that happen again. Again, I don't know if you guys got any of those calls or complaints. I got quite a few.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:34:47I'll say that in a lot of my district they may be on county sewer but they don't get reclaimed because they're older neighborhoods so they don't even get the option to have reclaimed and they're subsidizing on the sewer. So I'm not I'm not so inclined. I'd probably be just sticking with the staff recommendation.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:35:06But it's uh previously by having the reclaimed water it was offsetting the cost of sewer for everyone in the county as a whole, correct?

   Justin Grant

   2:35:19So uh overall having a reclaim system in a broad notion, right, you you're correct, right? Having a reclaim system, uh a system of treating and disposing of extra wastewater would bring down overall wastewater costs.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:35:31So it discounted the county as a whole.

   2:35:36Yes. And then we asked golf courses and new developments to take this excess reclaim water because we had too much of it at that time and we were giving it away. And then we started charging these new developments.

   Justin Grant

   2:35:54There there was always a rate structure in place um for those golf courses, right? And so yes, you had systems where there was just different disposal challenges, right? We talked about that 70 and 97 percent, right? With the utility being needing to uh dispose of that and reaching agreements with golf courses that would allow for that disposal to happen. Um but as that has shifted and we've got much more growth in the system. Again, ninety-seven percent load now. D did it the arrangement really can't be there and still be able to, like Commissioner Moore was just

   2:36:24stating, right, everyone to be able to have pressure at their houses to turn on their irrigation all the time, you wouldn't be able to have those type of things.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:36:30We asked them to take this water and dispose of it and we weren't charging and now we're turning around and we're imposing these fees after fees.

   Justin Grant

   2:36:38So they're they're not to my knowledge.

   Mike Carballa

   2:36:41We we entered into an agreement typically with a lot of these golf courses and those agreements stipulate how payments and and rates and charges that that are adopted ev you know, occasionally by the Board of County Commissioners, those rates, those rate structures have to be followed. So contractually That's always part of the deal. You know, you don't enter into a twenty-year agreement necessarily promising that that it's going to be a free commodity. So those those agreements are in place with with a lot of these golf courses and and with all of our customers.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:37:12And

   2:37:15Oh Uh oh. Right. Um

   Justin Grant

   2:37:23So so what Mike is

   Fitzpatrick

   2:37:24talking about

   Justin Grant

   2:37:24is that we're going to be able to

   Fitzpatrick

   2:37:25talk about Fegway when and FGUA we're gonna go back to Jasmine Lakes, didn't we take over Jasmine Lake's water and then distribute it over the whole county as a whole?

   Justin Grant

   2:37:38So the board took separate action right uh last year and made the decision to acquire the Aqua System.

   County Administrator

   2:37:46Yeah but it's not connected into our system yet, right?

   Mike Carballa

   2:37:49Well not not on reclaim, but but to your point, we we brought those systems in. The board made a conscious decision to bring these systems in, assumed the debt. The debt was spread across the entire customer base and rates were increased at at a rate appropriate to to absorb that debt and now they pay the same rates as all county customers.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:38:10So now we're also taking in additional utilities and spreading those across the whole county. And that's why we're going up an additional two dollars.

   Mike Carballa

   2:38:21No. In this particular case, the the next system to fall, and I believe the county administrator put that in his presentation this morning, there is there is money being set aside to help offset the debt, which would negate the need for additional revenue. We can recover that that revenue with with the customer base to to cover our costs. So no rate increase in this proposed rate increase covers any acquisitions. It's not necessary. provided the money that the county administrator. Correct.

   OakleyChair

   2:38:51What's the pleasure of the board on this item? 'Cause uh we can just keep on talking this the rest of the night. But it's hot in here. Yes, Commissioner Yeah. So is this something that

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:39:05Well I don't I don't want to punt because we already we we punted a lot of stuff to future meetings. So

   County Administrator

   2:39:13October. So we're going to all the revenue models assume the rates are effective one October.

   Mariano

   2:39:18Can I get an answer on what my last question was? What that number is? I don't want to use my assumption of calculation, but I'm not sure.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:39:26Uh the question on the If you got to seventy percent for example, Yeah.

   Mariano

   2:39:31If you want to s well, all right, let's go to that one first. Yeah, seventy percent.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:39:34Yeah, so I I mean at seventy percent you're talking about uh You know, call it eight cent reduction on the the top bulk a bulk reclaim rate, um so a four percent reduction on the lower one. Um so i at that level of reduction it's really within the margin of rounding on this and I don't you wouldn't have to really adjust the sewer uh rates accordingly. Um so it kind of fits within that

   Mariano

   2:39:59With the with the parameters you got set up.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:40:00Exactly.

   Mariano

   2:40:01All right. So I'm gonna I'm gonna make a motion to approve staff's recommendation. With the exception of taking the golf course reclaim rate at an eighty percent recovery to a seventy percent recovery, which will keep their rates the same.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:40:12Right.

   Justin Grant

   2:40:12So so that's what the entry is.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:40:14I'll second that.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:40:18Okay. Correct. Mr. Chairman Mariano.

   2:40:24So if that's if that's the will of the board, they're going to have to re-advertise this and bring it back to you because specific rates were advertised for this hearing. Nope.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:40:35I take that to the

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:40:35right-of-way. Correct, Justin? I mean, I I just looked at a proof of publication that had all these rates as advertised.

   Mariano

   2:40:44Did he just say he could keep the rates the same? Because they're in the same error, uh the same. You're moving charges from one to another.

   County Administrator

   2:40:54No, it was taking it just as well. Let me make sure I understand this, Commissioner. What you're saying is approve all the rates with the exception of the increase to the golf courses and leave the golf courses at the seventy percent recovery rate, which effectively leaves their rates alone.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:41:09Yeah.

   County Administrator

   2:41:09So all the rates that are published except for that rate are correct.

   Justin Grant

   2:41:14So in in going with that I would ask the county attorney um if we could readvertise only that set of rates for bulk reclaim. And move forward with the remainder of the rate structure to be implemented on ten one.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:41:29You could. And this and before you take

   2:41:35A vote here is this was a public hearing. Public hearing. So you're gonna need you need to take comments on the public.

   OakleyChair

   2:41:41Tax expensive. Yeah. If you

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:41:44are

   OakleyChair

   2:41:44we adjusting

   Fitzpatrick

   2:41:45public comments, sir. Do we have to readvertise if we're not increasing the rates? If we're leaving the rates where they are at, we're not increasing it. So do we have to

   Mariano

   2:41:54No. No, it's just the golf courses. We're gonna show a little review. We would leave the so make sure I understand.

   Moore

   2:42:03No, we c we ma'am. I'm sorry, but but are you with the staff? Okay, yeah we public hearing's over. Yeah. I thought you were with them. I was gonna go. No, this is still in

   Fitzpatrick

   2:42:11our public hearing. We didn't

   Moore

   2:42:14public comment. So you can't

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:42:15take a motion without taking

   Moore

   2:42:16a no no, it said afterwards there's public comment. It's right now. We th I thought you were a staff. I'm like, You trying to get to the

   County Administrator

   2:42:21microphone?

   2:42:23Go with our recommendation on everything but the golf court races hold the golf court rate as they are in twenty twenty. Which effectively makes him tr seventy percent subsidy.

   Mariano

   2:42:32Okay.

   County Administrator

   2:42:32Okay. Right? Make sure I understand that right. That's what

   Mariano

   2:42:36I

   2:42:36said,

   2:42:36but just in the

   County Administrator

   2:42:37right-of-way. And where are you going to get the money to to make to do that subsidy? Basically it it sounds like that's a Or in the model itself, the eighty percent to seventy percent is effectively a rounding error if I kinda hurry in the model. That's that small adjustment.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:42:56to meet this one, you should be able to drop Because you're charging them less, you should be able to drop it based on the advertising that's already been done. Good. Because it wouldn't change the current rate.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:43:08Because it wouldn't change the current rate.

   Mariano

   2:43:15Yeah. Let's have a public hearing.

   OakleyChair

   2:43:19Is there anyone here to speak to this item? Mr. Chair.

   2:43:25You're speaking to the item as a public comment.

   Barbara Kennedy

   2:43:27My name is Barbara Kennedy and I live in [address removed].

   OakleyChair

   2:43:31Okay.

   Barbara Kennedy

   2:43:32We are on reclaimed water. We have maintained villages and self-maintained villages. The self-maintained pay the basic rate, the monthly rate. We pay per gallon as per thousand gallons as does the golf course. It's killing us because the rates keep going up and up and up. And our bills are range between eight hundred dollars a month. And twelve hundred dollars

   2:44:02a month. Now if you implement my question is if you implement What you're considering, what I think I understand you're considering for the golf courses. Will that apply to my bulk rate bill also?

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   2:44:20Yeah.

   Mike Carballa

   2:44:21I I believe the bulk rates that we're golf courses are typically the the the storage without storage. These uh these villages and heritage pines actually are utilizing system pressure. So it is at a higher rate. Yeah. And we're currently

   2:44:38I thought it was in it was close to seventy cents.

   Barbara Kennedy

   2:44:40It's seventy it's sixty-eight going up, I'm sure.

   Mike Carballa

   2:44:42Let me let me confer with our rate consultant for just one second here to make sure my understanding is correct. But we're talking the bulk rates. If we do a seventy percent cost recovery is the across the board for bulk rates, whether it's pressurized or non-pressurized, correct? In which case then we would hold we would hold at the at the 70 percent level as as you've said. So we would not be doing the increase that

   Barbara Kennedy

   2:45:04not being doing the increase, and would that be a decrease for us?

   2:45:11There's a lot of bouncing back and forth. And I'm trying to get a grasp on it. You have spoken with Alan Lowe.

   Mariano

   2:45:19It would

   Barbara Kennedy

   2:45:20be the same rate.

   2:45:24But after that couldn't be a good thing.

   Mike Carballa

   2:45:28Or are we holding that for four years? What is what was your assumption Stantex?

   2:45:37So the the assumption is that we would hold the bulk rates at seventy percent recovery and then index at the three and a half percent annually, just like we're doing Currently. So

   Barbara Kennedy

   2:45:50Yeah, help that. Yeah, help me out.

   Mike Carballa

   2:45:53So the numbers right now currently proposed are one and a half percent for water, three and a half percent for sewer and reclaim. So our costs increase every year in order to operate the system. So we would We we we will not do the the jump to eighty percent, which is what we're what we're talking about. We would hold it at seventy percent recovery and then they're indexed according to our cost, which is three and a half percent. So they will go up three and a half percent every year uh versus the three and a half percent plus whatever

   2:46:23was

   Unidentified speaker

   2:46:23proposed as part of the Normalization to get to eighty percent. This year they're flat, next year they go up three and a half percent and thereafter. Yes, sir. So

   Justin Grant

   2:46:32you avoid a two point nine percent increase on the Mr.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:46:34Justin, Mike, thank you. Yes,

   Justin Grant

   2:46:36ma'am, yes Madam Clerk, no problem. Yeah, so um that effectively by holding the rate avoids a two point nine percent increase on that rate right now, and then like Mike said, it will index along with the rest of the plan. Because if you don't, right then you're cost recovery will dramatically that gap will dramatically widen over the remainder of the rate period. So this is just for the one year. It would freeze the rate it would freeze the rate increase and so there would be no increase on on those rates this year. But then the following year, right?

   2:47:05Yes, ma'am. It would index along with the rest of reclaim and and wastewater rates. Yes. Which would be three and a half percent. Well we'll

   Moore

   2:47:12take whatever we need.

   Justin Grant

   2:47:12In October twenty two. Yes, sir. In October twenty two. Yes.

   2:47:17So as of October twenty one, your rate would not change under this proposal.

   OakleyChair

   2:47:22Okay, is anyone else to speak to this item? Thank you. Yeah. Seeing no one.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:47:27Mr. Chair. Chair. Um

   OakleyChair

   2:47:29need a repeat of the

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:47:30I do need

   OakleyChair

   2:47:31a

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:47:31repeat of the motion. Thank you. Chairman Mariano.

   OakleyChair

   2:47:33Yes. Are you gonna repeat the motion? I have a question. What's the question?

   Fitzpatrick

   2:47:38At what point would be the break even analysis for them to convert from the seventy two cents of us storing to them being self storage so they can get the lower thirty six cents?

   Mike Carballa

   2:47:50So currently I don't That would require a capital investment on their part if they don't have the facility. So it would be very specific to whatever it is that they're doing. So that analysis would be a project type analysis.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:48:03Do we know the average cost to for them to install that or happening?

   Mike Carballa

   2:48:07In my past experience with projects here with the county, definitely seven figures.

   Moore

   2:48:13Okay. I'm gonna restate Commissioner Yeah Sharky's motion. She had to step out for a second.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   2:48:21Okay.

   Justin Grant

   2:48:38We don't have to open the door and let Commissioner Mariano

   Mariano

   2:48:40restate

   OakleyChair

   2:48:40your motion.

   Mariano

   2:48:41The motion is to accept staff's recommendation, with the exception of the bulk rate going going from an eighty percent recovery rate to a seventy percent recovery rate, which Keeps the rates the same for this current year.

   Fitzpatrick

   2:48:53And second.

   Mariano

   2:48:54All right.

   OakleyChair

   2:48:54And she seconded it. So I have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.

   2:49:03Motion pass five zero. Thank you.