Conditional Use Request (Regular) – Adventist Health System Sunbelt Healthcare Corporation –Multiple-Family Dwellings in a C-2 General Commercial District – Southcentral Pasco County – on the West Side of Bruce B, Downs Boulevard, Approximately 350 feet South of Eagleston Boulevard – Containing Approximately 16.24 Acres (PC: 12/10/20, 1:30 p.m.; DC Hybrid Virtual Meeting; BCC 3/23/21, 1:30 p.m.; NPR Hybrid Virtual Meeting; Continued from PC: 11/5/20; 1:30 p.m.; DC Hybrid Virtual Meeting and BCC: 11/17/20; 1:30 p.m.; DC Hybrid Virtual Meeting and BCC 1/12/21, 1:30 p.m.; DC Hybrid Virtual Meeting) File Number PDD21-CU08
What the county recorded
Staff recommendation
Approval with Conditions
DispositionApproved
Approved Staff’s recommendation with Commissioner Moore and Commissioner Mariano voting nay.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Board of County Commissioners, Apr 7, 2021
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Board of County Commissioners, Apr 7, 2021
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
What was said
Machine transcription of 1h 1m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 91% of 322 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Item P fifty six was published in the Tampa Bay Times on March twenty eighth, twenty twenty one.
Denise Hernandez, Planning and Development. I I do have a question for the board. Am I doing a presentation on this item? Today.
Um We went this is a continuous isn't it?
This is um we had a discussion on this item on, I believe it was January twelfth and it's was continued for 60 days and I think it was continued at the last board meeting again.
You've had a you've this this is the one you had a full and complete public hearing. It came back at your last meeting. Commissioner Moore asked for the hearing to be reopened and it be readvertised. in l the board has uh has all the the staff presentation for this one unless you were unless for some reason you want it you want to hear it over again. Um but you had a complete presentation by staff prior uh
at a prior meeting.
Okay. So we don't have to take public hearing or anything.
You do have to take public you do have to take public comment and my understanding was that the that uh I'm the applicant probably wants to make a presentation and I there was additional information that was going that uh I think the commissioner was going to meet with F D O T.
Correct.
Um so I'm not sure procedurally. How you want to do that, but whatever sort of new evidence is, you have to give the applicant time to rebut and you've got to take public comment on whatever the new evidence is for this for this project.
Okay, is the board okay with the presentation we received before on this item? Or would you like to hear that?
I'm okay with it.
I'm okay. Mr. Chairman M we need new information though, right?
Yeah, I I it was mine. Yeah, not we can we can wait for the app applicant's presentation. I'm fine with that.
Well we may have questions for you.
And happy to answer what you stuff does to us and come back to you to answer them. Shall I read the item into record just to open it? Please. Okay, perfect. Thank you so much. And I just leave the admin.
I think that's what we're at the option.
I did the puzzle. Oh you did. I did. Thank you. Awesome. PDD 21 C U08 P56, it's conditional use Adventus Health System, Sun Belt Health Corporation for multiple family dwellings in a C2 General Commer General Commercial District. The item comes to you with a recommendation and with alternate alternative considerations um to the board and uh it was approved uh with conditions, the recommendation of approval with conditions from the Planning Commission. Um and that was a 4-1 vote, if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah.
Okay.
Reto, I'll look at the At the agenda memo to verify that if that anyway, I think that's a good idea.
Or two.
We're
talking about oh on the continuance. Yeah. Okay, sorry.
Staff rec the appro uh the Planning Commission recommended approval of planning development.
Okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
Sorry about that.
No, that's okay.
Clarify.
Because
we're
on the same page.
Yeah, because we didn't vote on it. We continued the item. Okay, so uh it's time for the applicant to speak.
Hi, this is Barbara Wilhite, 6327, Grand Boulevard, New Port Richey Florida, 34652. We have our full PowerPoint which staff has that we went over before. I have my full team available, Pete Pencil from Avid, as well as our client Aaron Landry from Mass Capital and Steve Henry from Lingston Associates. We're happy to give our presentation again. You have that in your packet. Um, if you would like I can just hit some high
points. I would ask that that we get a chance to rebut not only public comment, but I think Commissioner Moore has some factual testimony um based upon a maybe a meeting with the F D OT. Um, we'd like a chance to, you know, hear that and also uh rebut that. or discuss it or whatever it may be. I'm not sure what the information is, but we do have Steve Henry um to participate in any discussion regarding that. So with that, would you like me to proceed with just a high level summary or would you like us to go through our PowerPoint again?
High level summary is fine.
What? I think it's just a higher level summary's fine. Of course. Yeah.
High level.
Okay.
I can do that on behalf of our team and as we get to rebuttal if we need anything specific from my teammates. We can bring them forward to participate, including uh Mr. Henry, if the discussion's gonna be transportation related. But at a very high level. Transportation first. The project has no access to Eagle Ston Boulevard. This project access is on brief Bruce B Down and that project access has been approved by FCOT. As you will recall, the the project
is the property is currently zoned C two and can be developed as a matter of right with C two uses. The traffic generation for this project as multifamily is significantly less Then the trip's approved uh for a C two project. As Mr. Pencil explained to you from ABIT Engineering during his PowerPoint presentation, which you have in your packets, the staff made sure you had sure you had this is not a viable or desired location for C2. It's been
zoned since the eighties and is still vacant. The multifamily residents in this location will support the existing older retail at Bruce B. Downs and Wesley Chapel Boulevard, hopefully to revitalize and to continue um to have that retail uh viable in that location so it doesn't blight.
Also um
The other thing I wanted to point out was that the board's Comp Plan has adopted policies about where commercial development should occur at intersections. And this property was zoned in the eighties and does not meet the BFC locational criteria intersection. This is the right location for multifamily. Of all the things I've heard the county say over all the years about how to do a mixture of uses and how to locate a project, this one meets all of those. This is walkable to existing retail. It's also walkable to the employment
at the two car dealerships, which is uh Lexus and Toyota. It's walkable to employment at Blue Hair and ALF. and walkable to the new Bay Care Hospital, which is under construction and will open in 2023. which is around the same time as the project. You'll recall that In our PowerPoint presentation we had letters of support from both um the ALF, Blue Heron, as well as Baycare.
This project is consistent with the mixed use land use designation that this board put on the pot put on the property. It's a uh transitional land use from the commercial to the north to this multifamily to the townhomes to the south and ultimately to the single family detach to the south. It's exactly in line with the Board's adopted and very specific mission and its comprehensive plan for this area, which is for high density, in compact mixed use locations.
The Com Plan was adopted to guide development and my client has followed the adopted BOCC policies and this project should be approved.
And that is that's my high level summary. We'll Listen to public comment, listen to Commissioner what M Commissioner Moore had to add, and then we'll come back and Provide any rebuttal as necessary.
Okay. I mean is anyone uh a WebEx or an email to speak?
Yes, um we had two people register but only one person is on WebEx. Uh two emails were provided to be read into record. However, one of the emails is provided by the gentleman that's on Web WebEx. Okay.
We'll do one or the other, but if he's there to speak, we'll let him speak. Take his
yeah, I would take his live testimony.
Yeah, that's better. Yeah. Okay.
So um I'm sorry.
The seven.
Okay. Um Mr. Mark McBride. If you could state your name and address for the record, I do probably I need to swear him in.
I'm Mark McBride, [address removed].
Thank you, sir. Could you please raise your right hand? Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, so help you God.
Yes.
Thank you, sir. You may proceed.
All right. Well thank you. I um first wanted to say that um you know Right. I believe we have a solution to this potential problem and did try to reach out to several commissioners on this topic and was kind of disappointed I didn't get a call back. But I do think that there is a a potential middle ground that we can reach here. And the first thing is that You know, when you look at this property, if you were to face the property, turn southwest and walk a thousand feet, you're going to
find a parcel of land that is zoned for apartments. And that property we have no problems with being developed. And we're not anti-apartments. We're just concerned with the oversaturation of apartments. And so we have to kind of ask. Why would we change the use of a property when there already is property in the neighborhood that is zoned appropriately for this? And while there have been comments made that this wouldn't be taxing to the schools, we do feel that, you know,
when you add this apartment building, the apartment building that's zoned, and then the property that's being proposed by Sam's Club, and it In addition to the already apartment buildings we have in Seven Oaks, the one across the street from Seven Oaks, the one adjacent to Seven Oaks, and the one on the other side of the street of Seven Oaks, then the new ones in Wiregrass Ranch, the new ones down 54 that are under construction, and the new ones that are going to be built at the Grove, we are highly concerned that there is an oversaturation. We're
not against apartments. We would welcome this developer with open arms if they would build it on the property that's already zoned. You know, there was an analogy made against uh, you know, that apartments use less uh school desks than houses do. But this is not about houses, this is about office space. And offices use zero school desks. Offices contribute money to the schools in the form of tax dollars. And sponsorships for proms and baseball activities, whatever the case might be. And we're gonna be missing
out on this. There's been some talk about of having affordable housing. There's a misconception that apartments are affordable housing. That's not necessarily the case. Many apartments in our area have rents higher than that of mortgage payments. You know, I did file a petition uh online with very little effort. With within um days, we had over 500 signatures. It's up to 787. In the past, we had 1146
signatures on petitions against the oversaturation of apartments. And um, you know, I just ask that you take this into consideration because this is not from one subdivision, this is from Wesley Chapel, this is from Land O' Lakes, this is from many different areas in our community. Um, and so you know, we just really ask that this board take a hard look at the exceptions that are being made, why we're making exceptions when there is already land available for this, and the potential damage that could happen as a result of
oversaturation of of one particular use. And that's that's basically my comments.
Mr. Chairman Mariano.
Right.
Uh Mr. McBride may be under the impression that the petitions he emailed would be in the record at his request. So I just want to make the board aware that since we took his testimony. Requested that the petitions be part of the record.
Oh, the positions are up. Okay. All right. We'll have to uh Have a motion for that, right?
Yes, sir.
Second. And motion second. All those in favor of Petitions being a part of the record. Say
aye. Aye, aye.
Aye. Ms.
Chairman
Mariano. Motion passed by the right-of-way.
Just a quick note for Mr. McBride. Um I thought we were not supposed to talk to anybody about these hearings, so even when information came over, I didn't make any contact. And I think that's what we're all instructed to do. Well it
it opened back up.
It opened back up, okay. All right, well that that's why I didn't miss McGregor. Thanks.
Yeah. Okay. Uh is anybody you have anybody nobody else on WebEx?
No one else on WebEx. Let me just double check to make sure. Yep, no one else on WebX. I do have one email to read into the record.
Okay.
I'm gonna take the kiosks first in
case. Is anybody at the kioks and the
kioks? There is nobody at the kiosk in Dade City.
Okay. Anybody at the kiocks in Newport Ritchie?
There's no one at the kiosk in Newport Ridgie.
All right, thank you. Go back to the email.
Okay, these this email is from Miss Liana Walsh at [address removed]. Dear Commissioners, a request that the details from this email be read into the record. On Friday, January 8th, I submitted an email in preparation for the agenda item P eighty five, the proposed rezoning of multifamily dwellings in AC2 General Commercial District on the west side of Bruce B. Downs Boulevard. I stated my reasons why I was against it, but after reviewing the Commissioner's
meeting on January 12th, I have additional items of concern to point out. Concerns. One, having 248 units can easily bring 400 plus cars to the area. Two, we are already in a battle with three other redevelopment issues within Seven Oaks. So this is becoming exhausting. We are a master plan community with a way of living that we all bought into. We are not looking for busy roads within our community. Three, we do not have to develop on every single piece of land that. we have, why can't we have
some parks, dog parks, and green space for the wildlife? Four. Seven Oaks is one of the most beautiful residential neighborhoods in the area, and I'm extremely disappointed that my property value has not increased as much as it should. We have too many master plan communities with new homes being built that are impacting our wallets. Added concerns. One, if we already have an area that is zoned for potential apartments in Seven Oaks along Interstate seventy five, we do not need to saturate the Seven Oaks area with more. Two,
we are adding the Blue Heron assisted living facility and the Bay Care Hospital, which is going to bring more traffic to the area. The intersection at State Road 56 and Brisbane Downs is a large congested area. We are going to have people using Ancient Oaks Boulevard to cut through to those facilities. Ancient Oaks Boulevard should not be used by anyone other than someone who lives in Seven Oaks or who is visiting someone in Seven Oakley. Yeah. It should remain a community road and not a cut through. We already have problems with speeding along the s that stretch
of road. As it has been announced that we are going to have speed humps added to the plans for the neighborhood, which is something else I am against. Why do law abiding students have to deal with the daily beating of their cars? Along another issue, once the library is built, we will be drawing even more traffic from ancient Oaks Boulevard to Mystic Oaks Boulevard. That area is already too congested with the school. Three, why do we have portable buildings at Seven Oaks Elementary if we are not at capacity? From
what I believe the developer mentioned, we are at 101%. Not sure of the numbers, but we should have a building that can house the students we already have. And if you add the apartments, we are going to be adding more students to the school, or we will be looking at rezoning again. Number four, if we allow three, four students. story buildings to the build to be built in that area, it is going to impact our property values even more than I was originally concerned about. The sample drawings of the buildings look just like the other ten plus apartment
communities that have been built along State Road fifty four, fifty six and outside Livingston Oaks. They leave a lot to be desired from an aesthetic point. I am completely against apartments of any kind. Yeah.
That's it? Yes. Okay. All right. Thank you. Um
So we've that's that's the end of the public comment part, except Do we want to go to discussion before let her rebut
or If Commissioner Moore has evidence he wants to put in the record, it's gotta be now. It's gotta be now.
So that's
what I
was
gonna recognize
Mr. Moore for that.
No, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I won't talk I'm not gonna talk about anything else because everything else will be after the applicant is finished rebutting the testimony from um obviously from the public speakers. Then it comes back to the board. So this will make sure procedurally we stay on track so we can have our debate and discussion after that. So I will leave everything else till then. But I did want to one of my concerns was at the previous meeting where we continue this was um Something I had heard um potentially from F Dot about a closure of a medium
in the in the direct vicinity. So um I see a conceptual site plan here. I don't know if there's a way to zoom in and go a little bit um more I'm thinking about my uh B north on Bruce B. Downs. I think that's uh there we go. Go straight. Okay, there's pull down the Eagleston. Okay, there's Eagleston. If you keep going to the right a little bit, we may not make it there. Okay, it's not gonna do it. That's okay. All right. If you scroll Up a
little bit more. If possible. Up. Up so the there we go. Uh push up. There we go. Okay. So At some point, um, F DOT is going to put a traffic signal, as was discussed, at the corner of Eagleston and Bruceby Downs. Currently just north of here. on the eastern side of the road is a shopping plaza. And the shopping plaza has a Sunny's, a Taco Bell, has a Publix, and obviously a couple more out parcels
and and a few other retailers that are attached to the to the Publix. Um F dot is going to right after Eagleston, close the median. What that means is that all the traffic that is going to pull out of the publics that has to go north will not be able to cross the median any more to go south. That's gonna cause a huge backup, which
it currently does already. I see it on a regular basis. Pass Eagleston.
Now eventually, hopefully 'Cause it's not in the plans and no plans have been submitted. When this happens and the media encloses There's talks and I've had conversation with F Dot too in the developers across the street that they could possibly do another ingress egress out of publics, but that's gonna be a long process. That's not gonna be overnight. That's gonna be something obviously the county's gonna have to be involved in, FDOS gonna be involved in, and the developers themselves to build the access on the eastern side of the road. So
Mr. Moore.
Yes, sir.
The meeting you're talking about, is it right here?
It's just north. So
we're not looking at the median that they're gonna collect.
Yeah, so eventually there's gonna be a signal there. But now there's no plan submitted For Across the street on the eastern side. Eventually, hopefully, if it's approved by the county and approved approved uh approved by F Dot at some point, um there will hopefully be an ingress, egress out of there where the people in the shopping center can leave. Right now though, they're closing the medium
shopping center?
Oh yeah, I I can't see that far at the
shopping center on the south
west
corner. Yeah,
so it's that
a public
it's yeah, it's right here. So if you it'd be right there. This it's yeah, it's right there.
Northeast.
So anyway, so the median across the median right there going north is gonna is going to be um is gonna be closed. So when and I bring this up because I know some of my some commissioners and some of the public had talked about the increase in the backups of tra of traffic at that signal on Rootsby Downs and West Chi Chapel Boulevard. Currently it backs up. It's going to be back up more now because the meeting's going to be closed. And we don't know how long before, again, there's going to be some type of relief. That's going to force people to actually do a U-turn. turn in two spots.
at the corner of Bruce B down to fifty four, which is an impossible U-turn up in my opinion to make. I tried into my truck and I had to do a three point turn in the middle of the intersection, which is not safe at all. Um Or they're gonna have to go around the bin and hang a ride on fifty four and do a U turn on fifty four and come back around again.
Can you show us where that is on the map?
I don't understand where the public is.
Uh that's maps doesn't show m what we're looking at.
Okay. I just see empty land.
I don't think it's not. I see no shopping pol I don't know what the what this is.
That that's Eagleton that's Eagleston South. You need to go to Eagleston North.
Yeah, yeah.
That
hasn't been developed yet. Yes, in the in the in the in the speaker was correct earlier where is there is gonna be Lily there's entitlements across the street already for apartment complexes on that side. But
are they putting the map up?
All waiting, yeah, I think.
I don't know who asked.
I have just sent email to uh Jordan and Todd with ideas.
Yeah, I thought their map would have showed it, but I guess it didn't. Yeah, that's okay.
I
just
gotta Google
Maps. Yeah, yeah, Google Maps, if we can we can just do that real easy.
I can't tell which one of these
is public. In the meantime, we're waiting for that to come up. Mr Mr. Chairman, can I just let me just ask a question because Commissioner Mariano made a point a little while ago that stating that um the gentleman um that's pretty much representing Websey Chapel and Land O' Lakes and a lot of these apartment issues had reached out. And did not receive responses. And now he just mentioned a second ago his concern was that he thought it was still he was not able to meet with them. I I mean Commissioner Fitzpatrick did
There we go.
They okay, they reached out to you as well. Did you were you able to meet with with the community? Done.
don't recall.
Yeah.
it'd be a really good idea to take the time to actually go and meet with this community and meet with the people that are working on a lot of these issues and spend some time with them before moving forward with something like this for sure. Um okay. So Can
you zoom in, Jeff?
Yeah, you're you're right. We need a commissioner, we need to zoom in. Okay, there it is. There it is. Okay, see see Eagle Sten and then see the median go go north a little bit more. If you don't mind? So there's gonna be
a light right there.
So eventually there's gonna be a signal.
Okay.
Right? But right, and then go a little bit north. Okay, so they're gonna close off this median. So see where everybody comes out, see where Sunny's and look at s and look south of Sunny's, see that road and there's that median Where it says Bruce B Downs, Bruce B. Downs. That's a huge meeting where all the traffic right now that wants to go back south on Bruce B Downs comes across. A median. The south. They're closing that. They're literally closing that medium. Right now traffic does back up.
especially at h at high traffic hours, um, all the way past Eaglston. Um to all the and that past Eagleson all the way up to the corner of fifty four and Bruce B. Downs. now that they're gonna close that meeting All that traffic that was doing going south across that median won't be able to do any more. They're gonna have to go north. and two uh U turn, if you keep moving up, go north for me more, if you would. Just keep moving north, north, north. They're gonna go all the way up there. Keep
going a little bit north. And attempt right there. Yep, and attempt to do a U-turn. what you can't see t too there's this cement structure like a barrier. That's kind of in the middle of that intersection too, which makes it very difficult to do if you go you can't see it unfortunately. It's in the middle of the almost the middle of the road to go around. And all that traffic coming off I-75 right now, what it does. They they go to that right turn lane, so if and they and they hang a
right on five eighty one. They don't yield, they just keep going. Um so that makes it very difficult to do a U-turn there as well. So that was something I wanted to bring up because when we talk about We we talked about traffic. So whatever was talked about during the traffic study previously
It's not gonna be the same. So the applicant talked about a traffic study, they did a traffic study, that was not taken into account because they weren't aware of this closure b of happening. Um possibly within eight months to a year now.
I'm gonna leave it at that for now and then let the applicant go ahead and re but anything that they feel they wanna rebut and then I will continue on with like other concerns. Ms.
Railhop.
Thank you, Commissioner. Um regarding schools, it it came up in uh a couple, both um Mr. McBride as well as the uh Ms. Walsh's uh email. So I d we do have a slide that's included in our PowerPoint presentation. It's slide 16 that goes through the school capacity. It quotes Chris Williams testified before the Planning Commission. specifically about the capacity of the school and ultimately conclude that they don't object to this
development. And he also thought he also voted in favor of it and said that multifamily right-of-throughcation is a good fit. So we did cover that. If you have any specific questions, um we have more in our PowerPoint on that. I would like to ask Steve Henry to um I'd like for Steve Henry, he's knowledgeable, he's met with DOT several times, um, and I think he can add some more explanation regarding this project and uh and anything that D OT is doing in the area.
Good afternoon. Steve Henry with Linkston Associates. So want to address a couple things. One is on the median closure that Commissioner Moore was talking about and the signal that is proposed at Eagle State. So um one, yeah, you correct the DOT is closing that. Right now the the plan is that the signal plans for those improvements are slated to be let in October of this year. Um
and then um start construction, you know, the the first part of twenty twenty two. Um those plans actually the for easy do accommodate
The um
do accommodate the uh um that left leg of the intersection. Um and so it it actually the signal was designed to accommodate that. We have actually met with DOT to discuss that and we're looking at the potential to be able to Um modify the entrance there to be able to provide that entrance at the same time that they build the signal to provide that connection to the public shopping center so that exactly
what you're saying won't happen and that that that that we won't have the U-turns that you're concerned with. The second thing is that if you go to um slide 10. of um our presentation that shows a site plan. The other thing that we're doing, we met with DOT on this project. And the current median opening that is there just south of Eagleston does not meet the DOT spacing criteria. In fact, it's too close. to that signal that
will be at Eagleston, you'll end up with the same type of problem that you have today with the the median opening that is between Eagleston and 54. Um, and so what w DOT has requested that we do is we move that median opening south. make it a directional median opening, that will closely uh meets the spacing criteria uh and will help from the operation of 581. for the separation between the signal that
will be at at Eagleston. Um and then finally, um as shown in our graph our uh exhibit 13. of the uh PowerPoint is it's the comparison of the traffic that could be generated by the project as it's zoned today for commercial. versus multifamily. And it's a significant difference. It's 376 fewer trips in the AM peak hour. Uh slide 13. and 567
in the PM peak hour. So what we're proposing is making the access better and in addition to that reducing the potential traffic that may be added to 581 with this project.
I'm sorry. Can you say that again because they were messing with the um the the screens.
Sure. Sorry about that. So th this provides a comparison of the the daily and and a.m. and PM peak hour trip generation between the what could be built on there uh as far as commercial. versus what we're proposing the multifamily. The daily trips are about 6,400 fewer daily trips, about 376 fewer in the AM peak hour, and about 567 fewer in the PM peak hour. So what we're proposing
is a significant decrease in traffic that could be put onto 581 into the area as opposed to what it's currently zoned with commercial. Yeah.
Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman Mariano.
Thank you, Steve.
But
Is that all of your uh Rebuttal.
Oh wait.
Uh let me ask a question. Okay.
Yeah, sure. Mr. Bayonet Yeah, this would be for the traffic engineer. If you have a office that came in Compared to a Restaurant, shopping center. How do the trips compare to that? Because that would be an acceptable use as well, correct?
Correct. Uh typically office would be higher than multi fa it's lower typically than commercial per square foot. But but overall would still be higher than the multifamily. But it's kind of a in in between the commercial and the uh multifamily.
Um now and I have a I have a question.
So I wanna understand the over saturation. And I wanna hear my staff tell me if we are oversaturated On multifamily.
Mr. Chairman M so I I just want to make sure we're done with the rebuttal from the This is back to the board now. So if we're asking staff questions, are we are we done with the rebuttal from the applicant? Are we back to the commission and staff?
They're done.
Yeah. Are you done,
Barbara?
Sorry.
She said,
I am. I I I think if I I think if I spoke anymore, I'd just be repeating over and over and over. So um with that, you know, let's have the board discuss and we're available if you have any questions.
Back well, I still do, but uh uh sometimes, you know, when I would drive around And I would see an old a shopping center that wasn't fully leased and then someone's coming in across the street building a new shopping center. I would say, Why are they building a new shopping center when this one is not fully leased? And um Because that's the way our development is allowed to grow. I mean, one has nothing to do with another. And so I
guess it's important for me to know if If the area is oversaturated with multifamily.
So I believe that that uh discussion will be had in the future with the Board of County Commissioners as we move through the temporary moratorium um for a specific geographic um area. Um so that's that's a conversation we will be having. In the months to come.
We don't have that information.
We don't have that information.
Mr. Chairman Mariano?
Uh Commissioner Mariano brought up a good point a second ago about office too and and I think it's just like anything else. Matters how s how large your office building is and how many units you may have if they're separate condo units. You know, that's hype all hypothetical at this time. So um the size of that property, yeah, it would be great if we had We talk about all the time, you know. We no longer, and this is since I've been on the board and since twenty fourteen, we're trying to go w get away from being a bedroom community. We're t we were done with
being the h housing source for Hillsborough and Pinellas. Jobs are what's more important now. Mr. McBride, you know, talked about the number of signatures he had. And that wasn't just people around quote Seven Oaks. That was Wesley Chapel. If you look at if you look at it, Lana Lakes loots that whole area. The commun I've never seen since two thousand fourteen uh this number of people that are concerned and I'll just be honest with you, have fed up um than I see now.
I mean, they are coming out in droves. It's no secret anymore. Um I don't think you had one email during this and I maybe you did. I'd be quite amazed. that wasn't from a land use attorney or a developer that said, We need more apartments in the area. You saw I'm not gonna put it back up and bore you, but you saw the surveys I did, you saw what the the surveys that the that came out with the uh this year's citizen survey, what the the community stated, okay? I get it. Listen, and and
I appreciate it with what we go through every meeting. They're there to sell us. on what they want. That's their job. That's how they can make their money. And that's good for great. That's This is you know, it's a it's a free market and a free economy. You're allowed to try to do things. But we don't always have to say yes by any means. We need to stop this before it gets out of hand. So I I think everybody received, I received an email from Bill Cronin today talking about recent requests to convert job-created
entitlements to residential and multifamily. And this is coming from the CEO of the EDC that is speaking out more and more against. This spot zoning of apartment complexes on parcels that should be job creating sites to give jobs to our current residents that are here so they do not have to leave Pasco County on a daily basis. And he says, I respect and applaud the recent decision by the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners to prevent future convergence from C2 multifamily. I believe this is another step
in the right direction towards. Ensuring that developers and property owners continue to honor the system of entitlements that are in place. Again, that's the key word. He said entitlements in place. This is a perfect example of what Mr. McBride actually said of a hundred feet across the street. already is zoned for multifamily. the opportunity is there. If they want to be close by Go across the street. But we don't have to give up more of our job creating sites. Their opportunity is already given to them right there in this
same block. Lily a chip shot away, Commissioner Mariano. Um And he will continue to emphasize this is Mr. Cronin, the need to preserve entitlements needed for job creation, whether it's industrial or commercial, to ensure that our residential development does not outpace job creation in our county. There are still too many people living here or working elsewhere. Our county is not the overflow housing department for Hillsborough and Pinellas counties. We have our own growth strategies in
creating more local jobs.
Further, there are plenty of entitlements already granted to fulfill the future housing needs. Remember, this is the CEO of the EDC. As a matter of fact, there are multifamily entitlements directly behind this property, which you are discussing today, and additional multifamily entitlements directly across the street, which have not been fulfilled. And again, he says thank you again for your consideration. I mean, We've got thousands of residents that sign a petition. We have the head of the EDC, which says we need to preserve this.
This is what You know, if ten years down the road all the great work we're doing gets changed by a further uh a future commission, we're gonna probably be upset, right? So a past commission sat here and said, this is what this should be here. Everybody agreed to it. Let's stick with the plan and not get away from the plan because it's gonna work. It will work. But we have to continue to have these job creating sites. Again, I
don't want to, you know, I even thought about reading enough 1700 names today of the people. I'm not gonna do it because you'd be here for two hours.
Yeah, sure.
But
it So I'm gonna I'm gonna Say what I've said on every other quasi judicial hearing you've had. And that is these aren't a popularity contest. The number of people that are opposed to a project is not something that this board should weigh. It may go towards compatibility, it may go towards other things, but to but when you just say there are 1700
people that are opposed to this project. That's not substantial competent evidence for this board to rely on.
I and I understand that at the same time, Mr. Steinsteiner, and I appreciate it, but I need to make sure that my fellow commissioners in a district I represent knows what they're saying. Don't have to don't take it into consideration. That's fine. But at the same time, I think it's important for them to realize because You know, we talk about knowing and I hear it from commissioners and Commissioner Starkey. I mean, I think back to, you know, one of the projects you worked on, which is in front of Gulf Harbors, which at one time was zoned and it's gonna be built for multifamily. And you were the biggest advocate to make that
not happen and have the county actually purchase the property. Which is what's going through pro the process now. And that was zoned to be multifamily. That was gonna be a apartment complex. And in and I and I commend you for it, but you're one of the biggest advocates to do something else with that property, make it a park or something like that, versus multifamily. So, you know
that's a whole different subject.
But it's it's that's what it was gonna be.
That's what it was gonna be.
Um So you know, again, you know, Mr. Steinsteiner, you do you brought the point about it doesn't matter how many people I I mean I get it taking consideration I think it still matters. That's just me being an elected official in District 2 and representing the people, but that wouldn't be part of my motion anyways. But you know, last time I talked about the applications inconsistent with FO2.3 point five point one of the land development code and policy flu 1.8.7. There's a reason, because the applicant failed to demonstrate proposed conditional use for
multifamily will contribute more to the county in revenue than it will consume in services, e.g., school, park, library services, relative to the non-residential uses allowed by the existing C2 zoning. They're also inconsistent with four oh two point three.
Point F point one, the land development comprehensive plan for generating uses because the proposed conditional use for multifamily would consume land and transportation capacity, the county must ensure is available for employment generating land uses. Same as what you know Mr. um Cronin has preached. I I'm watching numerous um Planning Commission meetings of the number of people when it comes to public safety and it comes to the school board and things that are now speaking out because of this is getting so out of hand. And we also also talk about the um it'll add it will add
more students. I mean it will, it's a fact. It adds more students to an elementary school that's over it is over capacity, and that's already stated. Um so proposed that multifamily use would adversely affect the quality of life and safety of those students and employees in that area. So You know, w it We need to preserve our county's Alvearum tax base, preservation of land, transportation capacity for employment generating uses. That's what we need to do.
Mr. Chairman Mariano. Yes. Ms.
Commissioner We More you were mentioning there's entitlements across the street. Do you know are apartments gonna be built anytime soon over there or are they just entitlements for future?
You know, I I don't want to assume anything um ever when that's gonna happen. I know there has been discussions, um, but again, those are discussions. Until you see an application, you know, nothing's for real, right? Until you see I I application is reality. But the entitlements are there. They can do it tomorrow. The same with across the street. So The available the availability to build multifamily is there now. It already is.
I know the different changes that we're working on. Um and staff was working on getting us the map showing the C2 zoning and then a layer of the MF1, twos and threes. And then also a map of where the entitlements are current and future. So we're still waiting on that as well.
We are we're still waiting on that. Yep. We still are. And that's why, Commissioner for Patrick, and those are good questions, good points you made. Um, you know, I don't think it it's it we would do we're not doing the right thing. We're not doing the right thing for the com the community as a whole, the future of the community and future of Pasco County, especially that area, if we continue to move forward with these. Um today's then you know, today's a perfect opportunity for you to do one of two things. You can say, hey. I would love to take Mr. McBride up on his offer. to
go see the area and continue this once again, or deny it for the reasons I've already given. Which I did check with obviously the county attorney's office and each one of those are valid reasons to deny Or I would not bring them up. Yeah. So I won't I will hold off on my motion, but I will make a motion to deny. Uh I'll wait for a second because I know there's gonna be discussion.
Okay. Mr. Chairman Mariano. Yes, sir. You know, w one of the quotes that was up on the screen that Chris Williams said, and I don't know what the whole context was, but when it said a comment of Multifamily does not impact us as much as residential. Assume it means res res three. Right. But when you consider about the acres itself, there's sixteen acres, you got two hundred and forty-eight units coming in from multifamily. Well, if it was res three, you'd have sixteen, you'd forty eight. That's a bigger difference. And I tend to think that It would probably impact the school even more so if it was going that way. I mean, it's
not going registered anyway, but Right. Commissioner, you brought up another point as far as like You know, when previous boards I was probably the previous board member.
Yeah. That
picked in and I tell you when I ran the first time, we had like one third the percentage of what Hillsboro County had for industrial land. And that was a big issue. That's how we're not creating jobs. We don't have any of that. Well it's hard to create that land because the people don't want to wait for it. You know, if you go down Hayes Road, you see a bunch of residential in there. That was all supposed to be commercial under the potburg parcels. That all got changed and once one came in, more came in and more c are coming in. So if we've set this along to be commercial. And we've set it in where we've set up for
apartments, clearly shown in the same grouping right across the street and a and across the other street. then we've allowed, I think, for the multifamily component. I hate to see us give up anything that can be a job creator, no matter what it may be, because if our people can work locally compared to Down at Hillsbrook and Elsa or somewhere else, it's better. Quality of life's better, traffic's better, the whole thing is better. And if we set it up that way. At least, you know, unlike Commissioner Starkey says, if you see one shopping centre being built, another one across the street, well Even if it's not leased out, maybe
it's still viable because they're still making money to go. That's their decision to go do that. But our decision is how do we want these lands best used? And if I've got an existing area and I've set up apartments for it, why do I want to change for more when I haven't even maxed out what's potentially there? It doesn't make sense and it goes against you say, Commissioner Moore, previous boards decisions, but how we wanted to set this up. And I will tell you if you look at the satisfaction People are thrilled now that we are moving to get more jobs there. And Bill Cronin, think about it. We've got Bill Cronin. worldwide
accepted man who's done so many great things for us. He's not afraid to weigh in on different things, et cetera. He knows he imports the jobs and quality of life. And if we're gonna keep a guy around like that, And then I'm thinking and I'm saying he's happy being here and that tells you that we're we're doing the right things. We need to still Look for creating jobs every step of the way. This goes against that.
Mr. Chairman M just a response real quick. And you you brought up a good point about you know the retail. And the applicant said, you know, about Blight and things like Well, there's no Blight. I can tell you right now, both those shopping centers are full to capacity. It's difficult. I hear it all the time from people. They cannot find space or land to rent because it's all being taken up. Those places are full. If that one of those storefronts are empty for some reason tomorrow, I guarantee you there's already a
lease on it because somebody's about to come back in. You look at all the th things that are happening, even at the Grove over in, you know, Commissioner Oakley's district. So for the longest time Unfortunately now we have a great group of people that are working on things there. That a lot of that those set empty. All those are full now. Oh yeah. So they're moving out to those areas too because they can't find enough land or availability in this area we're talking about now. So it's very viable. There's not even remotely any blight there. What causes blight
is to have this oversaturation of apartment complexes. You saw it happen in Brandon. You saw it hi I drove West Shore Boulevard last night. Saw the old Georgetown apartments that finally got destroyed. And they finally raised it because after all those years of sitting there for 20 something years, because they couldn't fill them up because of all the other ones built there. It it's the fact, it's not fiction, it's fact. So I so I d I made a motion. I mean
Well let me speak your first so I've I've been for this project because I felt like it fit in a puzzle. And I I think that project's good. I'm a little concerned today about the traffic, if that's changing. That that that bothers me. Um And and I agree, but before us, commissioners before us decided that Commercial. could allow multifamily on those type properties and allow that zoning. So
I'm I'm not against what they may, but now it's come to light in in your area that there's a change in that feeling and it's and uh I think it's a change in this voice. These people bring us that because it's loud. Yeah,
we can say no to that. It's yeah, but we we and that's why we're a board to say no. Right. Like you and I had a great discussion, you
know,
a meeting ago and you said, Commissioner Oakley see what you're going through and what's happening in your district, and you agreed. So and I appreciate that. So I think this is the perfect opportunity to, you know, let's let's move forward with what we're supposed to be doing, which is job growth in that area.
Mr. Chairman Mariano it it is not a permitted use, but it is a conditional use. Conditional when you say allowed, it's back before you for this hearing because they need an additional approval.
Right, exactly. Yes. I understand that.
Thank you
for that. Adventure. Ms. Darkey?
So um so We said it was commissioners here said it wasn't a good use to have the apartments because of the traffic that it would cause. And now we're told that if we do office or commercial, it's gonna add more traffic. So what happened to that argument? That went out before
that's by the applicant. That's fair.
So so um then then we're told You know, I hearing people's comments that this is gonna affect their property value. Is Unfactual. Um and And I agree, you know, the county attorney told us when when you have Lots of people not want some want not wanting something next door. Because they moved there they move to a certain kind of community
and apartments might negatively affect their community miles away. You know, I you really You know, that's not That's not good policy making when you let that kind of opinion sway you. So Um what would sway now I don't ever, ever and I will never swap industrial light for commercial or or for multifamily. And I think it'd
be a rare instance when I would take C two over multifamily. But my recollection in driving in this area is that it's has an awful lot of commercial in the area and I would Saying that you're going to be able Is it saturated with commercial? So um it seems to me that that develop that It's now got a bell's when I look here it says it's a bell's outlet. You know, when you get that kind of stuff
it's because you're getting what, six dollars a foot or seven dollars a foot. So that that means there's too much. commercial and you're getting The low end. of the market for retail. There. I would hope that Someone would come in and redevelop that. My recollection of State Road 54 and the top part of Wesley Chapel Boulevard is there's an awful lot of commercial around there. I am hoping to take 19, which is was way
too much commercial. way too much and get some of that out and put multifamily in it. So when I look at this site and the hospitals coming in, you got all these job opportunities right behind there. I was trying to find the, I thought I took a picture of it, but I did I was looking at a report that came out from someone and I wish I had saved it. I thought it said that Hillsboro County had 550,000 apartment units and Pasco
County had 15,000. That is not oversaturation. So um I'll look at this location. I think it's a good location for multifamily. It's right near the highway. It's right near the malls. I I don't have a problem with it. Until someone can tell me that area is oversaturated. We I'm okay with this one. Um I do want to see. We
know you're for apartments. You're you're
that's that's where I am with this one.
We know you're we and listen, if I appreciate your opinion. We know you're that's my opinion. You're an advocate for apartments. It depends on where everybody in the community wears it's a badge you wear kinda like a NASCAR driver wears a patch with a sponsor on it. It's very similar. So I You know, I I get it and that's what I'm saying. I
I I kinda resent what you're saying. No, you said I am I depends on where they are. And if there is an oversatur excuse me, let me speak. You're being really rude. Oh God. If there is an oversaturation, I want someone to tell me. Because I don't think an oversaturation of anything is good. But no one has told me. And shown me that there is here. So
I've got a um a motion on the floor and I do not have a second. Oh you should do. I seconded
it. And
Mariano,
what was the motion? Thank you. And all right. So if I could
No, because I wanted to I at one point I just want to talk about the retail that Commissioner Starkey talked about, the Bell's Outlet, and calling that low. Rent or whatever her statement was because it's not people should be able to afford, you know, not everybody can afford going and buying a $50, $100 shirt. You got to give everybody the opportunity. And some people don't prefer not to buy that. That that Bells has been there for a gazillion years. They've made so many investments in that. And like I said before, it's it's full. There's not enough space there. It's full. They
refurbished. that whole place painted it, New Stucco. They're selling out parcels there like crazy now because people want 'em. So it's it's not that it's low anything. I mean, give people an opportunity to have choices if they want to buy. A a a thousand dollar suit or go to Bell's Outlet and buy a fifty dollar suit. I mean, it it's not bad. It's good. It gives people options.
Mr. Chairman Mariano. So to t to even touch on bells and bells outlet, I mean down at fifty four, they've got a what bells and a bells outlet same all. And I happened to walk in the other day looking for some things and I mean Bel Zalda was immaculate. I mean Not not low end at all. Probably less money than maybe what bells might have been, but Not not a bad thing for a retail. To ta to talk about apartments, et cetera. Now you've heard me say if I can get apartments on 19, I'm not against it. Okay. I'd I'd much rather see single family, much rather see condos. That's
going on. The demographics have changed dramatically. That's why you see the over saturation of retail and commercial on 19. because you used to have people coming down from the Midwest, let's say, or even New York, they bought these homes, they had great income. They bought homes for real cheap money. They had tremendous disposable income. In the past ten, fifteen years, that's changed dramatically. Those two bedroom ha homes, a small three bedroom homes, are now filled in with renters. I mean we have tremendous rental coverage out there. You don't have the same demographics anymore to go support. That's why the Gulf Y Mall
has gone down so bad, because they can't support it. That's why it's down the fifty-four corridor. So Commissioner Moore brings up a good apartment, uh a point uh point about apartments that when they depreciate down over time, just like single family housing gets real cheap, guess what? What fills back in there may not be what you want. I think that this board set up or from the previous boards that when they set up these land uses and set up and the zonings are in place, they put in for apartments to be in there. Now back to the same point again. We put in for apartments.
If you're not filling up what you've got for apartments already, why would I approve more? And the reason this conditional use is in there, it gives us more flexibility because if we don't like something, we got a lot more flexibility to say no than something just coming in. And as long as we're following the code, et cetera, if my feeling is if I've got apartments that aren't even being filled in now Why am I gonna approve anymore? It doesn't benefit us and we're not trying to create jobs with departments. We need to focus, keep our commercial as pure as it can be, especially right now.
So um and I wanna say one more thing. Um so I was approached by um a l a landowner and a real estate attorney, I won't say which one, about would I be amenable to having some landowners come together At Gun Highway in fifty four. Uh in that area on the southwest corner. Um that uh does have some zoning. It's it's kinda all messed up. Uh with some higher
density zoning, if they pulled their property together, would I be a man at a amenable to a multifamily at that spot. And I said, Absolutely not.
That's for the flea market.
Absolutely not. That the flea market's there, there's there's something else coming in, but that Land is much better suited for light industrial. And we want jobs in this county. So I think it's really good. Inappropriate for you to say what you did. As my view is to say is to look at each site. On its own, does it make sense for multifamily to be next to the interstate and State Road 56? To me, yes. So
I don't think it's a
that's that's a I guess that's more of a excuse me. I guess that's more of a planning perspective. Um There there are sites that are good, there are sites that aren't good. So I you you characterized me in a way that I think was improper and and not correct.
You said you said it, not me. You said you were with a badge. That's fine.
You said I'd wear it with a badge.
That's
Call the question because you got a motion and you got a second to deny this project. Mr. Chairman Mariano.
If I can if I can just get clarification of the commissioner's motion. That that is the The motion for denial you're making is the same motion You've referenced some of the detail you made the last time, but it's the same motion that you made the
last time. And I can submit to the I can submit for the record as well. Thank you.
Would these apartments be coming in at the same time, before or after? the hospital that they were planning on putting in down below. So
is it Rocal is or is it Well.
I don't know. Okay. Commissioner Fitzpatrick, I think remember last time, you know, I I I brought actual facts about the number of healthcare workers that live in the area. Two thousand and there's plenty of healthcare workers by far in the area. My wife's a registered nurse. When there's a shortage, she gets Mailers and postcards below galore about needing nurses. I haven't seen one in I I months, and I'm the one that gets the mail. Years probably. Used to, boom, boom,
boom. We don't even see them anymore. There's there's no shortage of Nurses and physicians I mean in that area by any means.
Okay, I got a motion and second to deny this project. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed? Like sign? Or night?
No.
No. The motion um
Gracias.
No. No you gotta make a new motion. There are three. But it's it's the vote is two for denying this project and three for
yay.
Together.
Mr. Chairman M okay while this is unusual, why don't you do a roll call vote? That's that's what I was thinking earlier. So
yeah. The motion to vote.
Motion to deny motion is to deny.
District two, Commissioner Moore.
Aye.
District three, Commissioner Starkey.
Nay.
District four, Commissioner Fitzpatrick.
Nay.
District five, Commissioner Mariano.
Aye.
District One, Chairman Oakley.
No.
So
Now we uh we need a motion approving it. Yes. Yeah.
I understand.
We have to have a motion approach to approve it if you want to if you want
to
approve. Okay, uh motion to approve the project.
Move staff rec you're moving staff recommendation.
Moving staff recommendation.
Second.
Got a motion second. By roll call vote.
District two, Commissioner Oakley District three, Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District four, Commissioner Fitzpatrick. Aye. District five, Commissioner Mariano.
Aye.
District one, Chairman Oakley.
Aye. Motion passed three two.