Presentation - Lakeside Woodlands Depression Property Acquisition Options - No Funding Required
What the county recorded
Staff recommendation
Presentation Only
DispositionApproved
Approved option number 1 with Commissioner Fitzpatrick voting nay.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Board of County Commissioners, Jun 22, 2021
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Board of County Commissioners, Jun 22, 2021
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
This case, across meetings
OEM-21-0016 in full →Heard once. OEM-21-0016 appears on no other agenda in the archive.
- Jun 22, 2021BoardR42▶Approvedthis item
What was said
Machine transcription of 18m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 79% of 107 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Uh now we move to the regular agenda.
Let me get there.
So I believe it's
R forty two.
Good morning. I'm Laura Will Coxon. I'm the interim director for Pasco County Emergency Management. Presenting to you today solutions for the Lakeside Woodland Sinkle Situation for your discussion. At the May 4th BCC meeting, uh the board requested a presentation on options for the homeowners affected by the sinkholes in their Lakeside Woodlands area. I'm going to go over a brief history of the timeline, the magnitude of the situation, mitigation attempts thus far, and options for the board
to consider and discuss with the objective of gaining your direction for the next steps.
This is a timeline of the geotechnical investigations that have led us to where we are today. Emergency management was notified of the depressions in the HOA-owned retention pond shortly following Hurricane Dorian in August 2019. As this is private property, the HOA hired Pinnacle Engineering to conduct a GPR or ground penetrating radar study of the retention pond area. The Pinnacle report led to the County hiring Intertech PSI to conduct a GPR study of the roadway,
which showed a concern of anomalies between seventy eight oh three and seventy eight zero nine Willowbrook Court, Resulting in us uh uh installing barricades in on the roadway. The Florida Department of Environmental Protection also surveyed the area, noting a cave system that comes across the retention pond area and crossing Willowbrook Court. All three of the engineering reports advised to use extreme caution due to the stability of the land surface. Emergency management following the report started
hosting meetings with the Homeowners Association and the residents to try and find a way to purchase homes in the surrounding area utilizing grant funding.
This is a map from the first geotechnical survey from Pinnacle. The survey focused solely on the retention area, showing numerous anomalies. As part of the report, Pinnacle Engineering offered their opinion that remediation efforts may not be cost-effective and could have a critical effect on the neighboring residential structures. This report provided a suggestion for soil improvement under the roadway, despite showing several anomalies that have been previously filled by the county in the road adjacent
to the retention pond. The county therefore hired Pinnacle uh hired Intertech PSI to survey the roadway.
The InterTech report shows fourteen anomalies between seventy-eight oh three and seventy-eight oh nine Willowbrook Court. Intertech PSI's opinion on fixing the roadway was that any remediation attempts to stabilize the roadway will be futile as soil loss will continue as a result of the underground cave system.
At the end of October, about one month after the holes in the retention pond opened, the Florida Department of Environmental Protection reviewed the two previous engineering reports, and provided their own assessment. They overlaid what was known about the cave system in relation to the area that had been surveyed. This map shows the cave system coming directly across through the retention pond area highlighted in the blue. uh circle and going through uh crossing o'cro uh over Willowbrook Court. The
Florida Department of Environmental Protection also advises to use a caution if attempting remediation activities, as there could be adverse effects on the stability of the land surface. They also further advised that future sinkhole occurrence in the area could be likely.
Emergency management has been trying to find grant funding to purchase homes in the areas for over a year and a half now. We have worked with all of our State and Federal partners, but every avenue that we have attempted uh has been denied so far as the properties do not meet the defined requirements for the grants. that are available.
So with grant funding unavailable, I'm presenting to you today several options for your discussion on how we can proceed. With response from the county. First option I present to you is due to the impact from the county placing barricades on Willowbrook Court. That the county would purchase the six impacted homes, demolish them, and return the land to additional water retention area. The estimated cost for the purchase of the pop properties and demolition is $1.4 million.
The second option I present is to continue to investigate and attempt to reinforce the roadway by filling in anomalies. However, there is no reasonable expectation that this can be done as we have three engineering reports stating that this could result in continued soil loss, and engineering options suggest remediation activities will be significantly more expensive. Than the estimate for option one. We did find a similar case study up in Kentucky in 2014 where there was another cave
system that a sinkhole opened over in a Corvette Museum. It was a smaller area than what we were experiencing up in Willowbrook Court, and the estimated cost for repairs were $3.2 million.
Option three is that we can maintain the status quo. Rather than the current movable barriers that we have, we would install permanent barriers that could be moved for maintenance in the area. uh that also provide pedestrian access. The last slide highlights the six homes that we were discussing and how we reached the $1.4 million estimate.
That's my presentation.
That's it? We don't have the answer for us? I don't.
That's why for your discussion.
Chairman Oakley.
Uh Ms. Fitzpatrick.
Um, I was trying to come up with different options as well and one other option was possibly doing an M S U to the HOA for the one point four million and if it goes over twenty two hundred homes it would be six hundred and thirty six a year and over ten years it would be five dollars and thirty cents a month. If it's gonna continue
So there wasn't a set precedent where we have to continue paying for every f every road.
Mr. Chairman
Mariano.
You know, in Land O' Lakes a couple of years ago when we had a big sinkhole collapse, through no fault of the people there. On their own. Uh the county stepped in and did the right thing and made the people whole. Uh they had homes collapsing in them. This we don't have the scenario. Uh if you look at the stretch of road from
Yeah. Um those homes in there, that section of road they say can't be fixed. And I'm gonna go along with that that it can't be fixed. Um And unless something comes back with that other uh information that would lead us to you have these people that are seniors uh children that can't live a quality of life getting to their home getting to the back to the no fault of their own. And I don't ever blame the county on this because the technology that was probably in place at the time couldn't foresee this. Our
current code technology would never allow these homes to be built where they're built. Uh and over time It's now just happened where it's eroded away. And it's happened over on Tequa Drive. Um you may remember a house home that was condemned before, got uncondemned, but it's the same riverine system. Uh I think what we should be doing is to to buy these homes out.
Safely. Um And at the next point I think we need to take a look at, and Lauren, we've talked about this, so maybe you'll Laura you'll talk about this, but Uh from the road of from seventy eight oh nine out to Lakeshore Boulevard and also down to a the other end of it at seventy seven eleven. There's anomalies in the roadway. that can be fixed from what I can see. that should get fixed. 'Cause they're out of the Can outweigh but there's still some settling in there. And you could make that whole neighborhood whole, we could just have a T intersection
that'll be there. I know it's not the d most desirable thing, but in compared to what else we could do. I think we should be fixing the road on both ends and doing the full biote. Uh Lauren, do you have any numbers as what what it would take to do the both s sides of the roadway yet?
No, working with road and bridge they advise further investigation, geotechnical investigation would be required to come up with any Estimate or direction. Okay so there are three reports that we have solely focus on this area.
Okay. So again these people had no fault of their own. I'm not in saying we're we're were to blame either, but it just is an unfortunate situation that We've ha we've set preference where someone struggled in Land O' Lakes. We've we solved the situation. There's a solution here too.
Mr. Chairman Mariano real quick. Why not? I just need to correct something. Um
The Lena Lake situation was was actually different. The county didn't go in and buy the homes actually, um, thankfully for them not thankfully the insurance actually paid for the homes. So the county did not s and Dan or Mike you can step in. What happened is that the majority of those homes were able to receive their claims because of how close they were and how they were affected by the sinkhole. Um it's a little bit different. I didn't listen I'm off I just wanna make sure there was no confusion to the
public to think that we actually went out and b purchased those homes 'cause we did not. Yeah. Um there was one that we were in negotiation with at the time but that didn't go end up going through. Mike, if you want to jump in and uh I think I hit the nail on the head but
total total different situations.
Yeah.
They bought those homes out at Lake Land O' Lakes because of the they were either condemned Because of the damage to the homes or they completely collapsed the
difference
or conditions.
The difference is those homes had had damage to them. These homes don't have any damage to them. It's the roadway in front of them. And we executed some repairs
to the road to create a turnaround.
Could we possibly Build a short bridge. A crosser.
But I know know Commissioner Starkey and have been very involved in
this, so I'm kinda gonna sit
back and I've done many trips to Tallahassee and to Wa I talked in Washington to FEMA, hot very high level executives, Senate staffers that work with this kind of stuff and This is a really unusual situation, and frankly, I think in Washington, they need to f make this eligible. This kind of uh happening eligible, but right now there really isn't anything that will let this be eligible for any kind of disaster funding. Sorry
for my cough. Um in my opinion What sets this thing apart from a typical sinkhole event is that it's the road. It's the county road that um it is what's con you know, what's condemned. And so No I'm 'Cause I don't wanna open up a Pandora's box that someone has a sinkhole in you know, in their yard or under their house and we step in and help them out. This is a different situation. We have tried for years to find
a another way to fund this and frankly it's all dead end. So I am in s personally in support of this. Um I don't know what you were talking about with the other road, but Um, I think what we're focusing on today is just buying out these houses and um closing off this road. Uh I I am curious what can happen to this property. Will it be a park? Um Will it be cordoned off? I mean we need we need to know what the safest thing to do for our residents is
you know, I don't want uh anyone else driving on that road and and I want it to look attractive for the other people. So
I
am curious what that's gonna look like, but I am supportive of buying out the houses.
No.
If we did we couldn't leave the road open at all, I don't believe so. Not at all. So it has to be closed off on both ends.
It's it's close to the right-of-way.
Where would the money come from? Yeah, but I want to
get
it at both ends. You know, it needs to be barricade at both ends. So they can't get around. Yeah,
it's something
else. Where would the money come from for uh
It would come out of your general general fund.
General fund.
Yeah, your capital account in the general fund. It was a one time expense.
Ms. Chairman Mariano. So and and Commissioner Moore, I I wasn't trying to say they were they are identical. So correct. No, no, that's okay. And I'm and I'm glad you did, because we need to get it clear for the record. So I I appreciate it. Um Out there And maybe Dan you may know the number, maybe Mike you know the number. We did spend a bunch of money creating So we did spend money on it, just not on the homes themselves.
I'm supportive of you what you guys want to do. So
you go
to the next slide.
No, no, I'm I'm gl I'm and again I'm glad you clarified it. I am
and it's not a good idea.
Your involvement of trying to look at every single angle. And she looked at every single angle up and down the coast. Uh and every every government entity entity, whether it be Tallahouse or D C, you gave it everything you could for the people too. So I gr I greatly appreciate your uh going through the whole thing and I appreciate the board coming up to take a look at this because it's no fault of their own. I think it's the right thing to do, so
And I I just want to say that was part of that was my my ability to access those folks in Washington was one our lobbyist and two a as chair of the federal committee at FAC it it opened doors for me and I was able to go in and s you know speak to those officers.
Mr. Chairman, I just have a question. Can we get a GNGal study of Lakeshore Boulevard and Rusty Hook? Because those trails are right around the corner.
Do one there?
A geotechnical report for Rusty Hook.
Because if the trade is a good idea,
I think the commissioner is concerned that the can that the cave system impacts those roads as well. Correct?
Correct. Because they had the study of how it affected
So what you're saying is uh possibly not the end of this. No, I think this is
a precedent case for future.
Well I'm gonna make the motion. Okay, motion's made and second.
What kind of thing?
Uh to prove number one.
Okay, I have a motion and a second. All the all those in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed, like so?
No.
One A, so the motion passed four to one. Uh option number one. Should I give you good direction?
Laura, thank you for doing such a great job. The whole team, I mean you guys were phenomenal looking at every which way to go with us. So thank you very much for everything.
You're awesome.
I hope we can close on those houses quickly so that they're not living there during this rainy season. And um be fearful of sleeping and having Having to lug all their stuff in during the rain. Yeah.
Well the the real issue we have there is um a place for them to go. Yeah,
that's gonna be
a
challenge.
Because that's a big challenge right now to have a place for them to go. So
Commissioner Yeah. And z listen, I wanna commend obviously both Commissioner Mariano and and Starkey on this. I know Commissioner Mariano's worked you know, very, very hard with the team and the staff and and uh And obviously Commissioner Starkey You know, traveling all the way up to D C and and and working hard I mean, you guys did everything you could to try to find other means uh besides having to use obviously general funds, but at the same time You know, it's the right thing to to do. Thank you.
Um with the f laying out the facts and send it up, you know, to get some to FEMA. Just say You know, wasn't we weren't able to help our folks, but Um with federal money, although I think we should have let let's try and work to fix it fix it so that this happens again. They're part of a FEMA. They can be part of a FEMA. C D B D D R or whatever it is. Well this no this is something in their
buttons.
Yeah, but this this is something I think they need to fix in their um I don't know what the word is, statutes or whatever they use in Washington. But this is a little uh anomaly that a glitch that was unthought of when they worked on those rules.
We can get a letter written and then
And we'll work with our
lobbyists. Based on the county commission. So
As a matter of fact, we'll bring it up at fact, Jack. There you go.
All right, move on to R forty three.
Mr. Ralph Laird. Should we wait?
I was just gonna say if you could wait uh about five minutes. Uh Sean Foster is in route. Uh he was in Brooksville this morning doing a presentation to Hernando and they had lots of questions. So uh he's en route if you don't mind. Okay, we'll
wait thank you.