Zoning Amendment (Regular) – Hale-Collier MPUD Master Planned Unit Development – Julia Herndon/Walter and Elizabeth Franzel/The Franzel Family Revocable Trust - A Rezoning Request from A-R Agricultural- Residential and R-1 Rural Density Residential Zoning Districts to an MPUD to allow for a maximum of 109 Single-family Detached Dwelling Units and Associated Infrastructure on Approximately 46.1 Acres
What the county recorded
Staff recommendation
Approval with Conditions
DispositionDenied
Approved to support the Planning Commission’s recommendation of denial based upon all the criteria that they had submitted and based on the evidence that had been submitted to the Board.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Board of County Commissioners, Nov 15, 2022
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Board of County Commissioners, Nov 15, 2022
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
This case, across meetings
PDD-23-7574 in full →PDD-23-7574 was taken up 2 times between Oct 11, 2022 and Nov 15, 2022, continued 1 time — this is appearance 2.
- Oct 11, 2022BoardP74▶Continued
- Nov 15, 2022BoardP92▶Deniedthis item
What was said
Machine transcription of 3h 27m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 68% of 836 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Good afternoon, Tammy Snyder, Planning and Development. We have Hale Collier and PUD, PDD 237574.
Here's their location map. That is Hill Road bisecting the MPUD, and that's Collier Parkway running north and south on the east. Here's a bigger picture. We have a US forty one over there on the west.
Pretty much.
Proposed as a rezoning from AR Agricultural Residential and R One Rural Density Residential Zoning Districts to an MPUD to allow for a maximum of one hundred nine single family detached dwelling units and associated infrastructure on approximately forty six point one acres. Here's our master plan.
Presently the subject parcels are used for residential and agricultural pursuits. The PC heard the item at the September 22nd, 2022 hearing and voted to recommend denial per the code and comp plan sections cited in the agenda memo. The county engineer identified levels of safety issues with Hale Road. Therefore, the applicant collaborated with her to reduce the number of proposed access points on Hale and revise the conditions of approval to reflect additional required safety improvements, such as turn lanes in both directions
at both access points and a sidewalk on the south side of Hale Road. to the Collier Parkway intersection then continuing down Collier. The PDD found the proposed request is consistent with the PascoChani LDC chapter plan, as noted in the post Planning Commission analysis attached to the agenda memo. And with that the PDD recommends approval with conditions.
All right. I think um board members any questions for staff would have a presentation by the applicant.
Madam Chairman, do you have ex parte forms that you're hearing?
As a matter of fact, there's been a few batches that have already been sent to the clerk's office. There was some included with this uh um agenda memo as well.
For clarity I remember the applicant.
Yeah, I did too. Yeah,
I did applicant and and uh citizens.
Okay? Um all right, then we'll hear from the applicant. You have um 15 minutes?
Thank you, Shelley Johnson, [address removed], and I have been sworn. I know many of you watched the Planning Commission committee meeting, and I know a lot of the people that were there are here today. So you're familiar with some of the concerns of Miss Bishop, who is one of the landowners on the other side of the lake from this development, as well as many of the residents who lived out on Hale Road that raised concerns in regards to the safety of Hale Road. and the impacts that this proposed development we're going to have on Hale Road. Um KB Homes,
I think they did this through the Renter MPD. took the concerns that we heard very seriously. We went back, we vetted those concerns, we had various conversations with staff, including your county engineer, about the concerns. And I think what you'll find, we have a PowerPoint that Cindy is going to come up here and go through, but it's and it's very detailed. But you'll see that we've made some very significant revisions to our MPD plan to address those concerns that were raised. The development now, the majority of that development is now going to be going out onto car. your
parkway that's where the at main access will be and staff is supportive of that your county engineer is supportive of that We do have 22 units on the north side of Hill Road that are store still gonna need to utilize Hill Road for access. That's the access to that property. Um but we have agreed even though the the traffic studies didn't warrant it Um there was nothing in the code or anything that of that nature. We did agree in discussions with the county attorney to go ahead and put in the improvements that Tammy's identified, the right and left site access turn lanes, as
well as the additional sidewalk improvements. But I'm gonna let her uh let City jump up. We're here, all of us are here to answer any questions. We appreciate your time today and we hope we can get your support for this proposal. Thank you.
Thank you, Shelley. Good afternoon, Madam Chairman and members of the County Commission. I'm Cindy Terrapani. Happy to be here again with you today to talk about this project. As Shelley alluded to, we have made a variety of significant changes to the project, which I will detail on the slides, but I want to give you a little bit of background about the project first. Before I begin, I'd just like to uh confirm that I am speaking as an expert witness in the field of land use planning based on my master's degree from Clemson Univers my undergraduate from Clemson and a master's degree from Florida State University and over 41
years of serving as a planner in both the public and private sectors.
We've assembled a very uh robust team uh with experience in every area that you need. Of course, Ms. Johnson as our attorney, civil engineer is by Florida Land Design and both Jay Hunting and Robert Fudge are here from that firm. And Mike Razor from Razor Transportation Consulting is will speak to you at the end about the transportation issues. You all know KB Home. It's one of the largest national builder in Florida, building for over 50 years in Southwest Florida. It has the financial and administrative capability to
complete this project and do the entire project. KB has three projects under construction in Pasco County, Legends Point north of 52 on the west side of Hayes, River Run on US 301, and Sanctuary Ridge on Old Pasco Road.
Again to identify the site, the site is split by Hale Road. The north side has a smaller number of units, the south side has the larger number. It's a 46-acre site with part of the lake, Lake Placy, located in the north side of the property.
These are just some aerial photos from 1952 and 72 showing the use of the property as uh grazing and clearly as citrus for some period of time until citrus is really not viable in certain parts of Florida anymore. We all know for that unfortunate situation. The most important thing I think about this project is that it is one of the last undeveloped portions of property in the Collier Parkway Land O' Lakes area. We are east of 41, west of Collier Parkway, is a 46-acre parcel divided
into portions. But as you can see very clearly from this aerial, Dupree Lakes is to the north, Sable Ridge to the south. Lake Paget Estates and different sections of Lake Paget are also located to the south along Collier Parkway, and the entire area from this property south to State Road 54 are completely developed with residential uses. In our particular case, we are we are adjacent to single-family detached homes in almost every case, with two exceptions. To the west, there are two there are single-family homes, but on larger lots, and
we'll talk about what we've done to mitigate there. to our east, across the lake, is the one property owner who um is in objection to this property, to this project.
Again, this is the future land use map. All everything you see in green is res six. Of course that's six units an acre. This project is proposed at 2.4 units an acre, 2.5, 2.3, 2.4. units an acre well under less than half of the plan category designation, which is your long-term plan for this area and the rest of the county. The per kind of purpley red you see there is along um Land Lakes Boulevard US 41, and of course that's um different kinds of commercial activity and land use on that section. Our
opponents are going to speak to you and tell you to ignore this comprehensive plan and look solely at the zoning. And I would just ask you to take a step back and recall that this area has been designated Res 6 for eons and eons in the county's Comp Plan. And our applicant, the KB Home, has relied on that Comp Plan category and put together a project that is complies with that plan category.
Again, just another map. Again, the site is in red. You can see all the single family homes. There is some Res 3 to the northeast. And also in that Res 3 area is the Pine View Elementary and Pine View Middle School. We're in very close proximity to this site.
And I want to talk now about the changes we made since the Planning Commission meeting. We had a very uh quite a few comments both by the Planning Commissioners, by the staff, and we continue that conversation with the staff and then comments from the residents. One of the main concerns was the access along Hale Road and the use of Hale Road for the project. So the project
As we presented it to the Planning Commission, had a driveway on the n two driveways on the north side of Hale Road to access those lots, and a third driveway also on Hale Road to access the southern portion. So a total of three driveways on Hale Road. There was no access to Collier Parkway at the Planning Commission presentation.
As a result of the concerns about the existing status of Hill Road, there was a significant opposition to new development using that road. So, based on these comments and working with the county staff, we have proposed, which is on your agenda today, a revision to the concept plan that makes major changes to that. Again the western driveway on Hill Road for the northern portion was eliminated. The driveway to the south property was eliminated, so now there's only one driveway remaining on Hill Road and it serves only 22 lots. The primary
entrance, and that's the one driveway on Hill Road that remains again serving only the northern portion of the property. The other major change that we did It's uh two things along Collier Parkway. One we have shifted the primary entrance to Collier Parkway and that becomes the sole entrance and the primary entrance to the south portion of the property. No longer access from Hale Road, only access from Collier Parkway. We've also provided, as the staff suggested, an interconnect. That's the the double arrow you see for the corner
parcel. That's at Hale Road and Collier Parkway, which we do not own, is not part of the project. We're providing an interconnect through our property to get there so they can get out to our driveway and then out to Collier Parkway. The other things that we have done as a result of the staff recommendation, we are committing to do turn lanes at both driveways. So at Collier Parkway, we will have a northbound left turn into the project. We'll also have a southbound right into the project. Neither of those are warranted by the number
of trips. The staff suggested that it was a good safety improvement and we agreed to make that and they are memorialized in the conditions before you today. We also agreed on Hale Road for the one driveway that we have remaining to do the same thing. an a west west eastbound left into the project and a southwest uh easterly driveway um going turning right into the project. So Both turning movements at both driveways are proposed and they're memorialized in your conditions and of course those are solely at
the developer's cost.
Those red bars are just showing the um the turning movements and we also have Mike Razor who will speak to those in a few minutes more specifically.
Other accommodations that we made along the the north half of the property, um
our property line is split down the lake. So the eastern portion of Lake Placy is owned by the bishops, their property to the east. You can see where the lots are in the um
Well, it's not doing it. Not sure how to run that part, but the pink that you see there, those pink uh lot lines, you can see the distance to the property, um to the Bishop property. It's at least eight hundred feet at a minimum from our new houses to her house, which is uh further north within the site, and it's a subdantial substantial distance from the property line of our new homes to the edge of her property. We also have reduced along the western edge there, we have reduced the number of lots and again memorialized on the MPD
master plan. There will be no more than 12 lots along that western property line because the houses to the west of us are larger lots. And we also, along that western edge, and actually in the entire northern portion, the pink you see on this map denotes that these would be the larger 50-foot lots. And finally, we've committed to a 20-foot buffer along that western edge where none is required because it's single family to single family, but we are committed to doing that buffer along there.
Now to look at the south side in a little more detail, again you can see there is no driveway anymore on Hale Road to serve the South Side. The primary entrance will be from Collier Parkway. With an interconnect to the corner at that you see up there, uh in the at right at Cale and and um Hale and call your parkway. All the lots adjacent to Sable Ridge, which are to our south and east, are fifty foot fifty foot lots And again, that's a commitment on the MPD master plan that they would be that size. We also are putting in a buffer and a
fence along that edge as well where no buffer will be required because again it's single family detached homes against existing single family detached homes in Sable Ridge.
With regard to environmental commitments, we do have wetlands within the site. We have a category one wetland, which is the Lake Placy. We're not proposing any impacts to that lake. And we will of course have the required wetland buffer around the lake. Uh we also are not allowing any motorized boats on Lake Placey. Again, memorialized in the MPD conditions, not just something I'm saying up here, but actually a requirement of the MPD condition. We plan to repair and replace the existing dock, which is on the south side of the lake, to the west of our main our
entrance on Hill Road, but we will not expand that existing dock. And again, no new environmental impacts or no no environmental impacts at all to the shoreline and the wetlands along Lake Placey.
We've had multiple conversations and emails between KB Home and the property owner, Mrs. Bishop, and her attorney. KB Home Principals visited the site at the invitation of the property owner. We believe we made every reasonable effort to be a good neighbor with the owner who shares the use of Lake Placy as committed to in the MP conditions. We talked about these transportation commitments to highlight it again. Only one driveway on Hale serving 22 lots, left and right turn lanes on Hale, the new principal primary entrance on
Collier, turn lanes on Collier Parkway as well. Sidewalks on Collier Parkway from the edge of our property all the way south and then also on Hale Road. The sidewalk would cross uh the corner parcel so it would go across our entire property to the corner from the corner south all the way down the total all the way down to the southern edge of our property and connect to Sable Ridge.
We also have a requirement to dedicate some right-way along Hill Road, which is also shown on the MPD master plan.
The surrounding community, as you saw in the aerials, is single family detached homes. That's the exact same use that we're proposing here today. That we have increased our lot size next to Sable Ridge and we've made commitments about limiting the number of lots and the size of the lots to our western property line.
The comp plan would allow 213 lots under that Res 6 plan category, 213 units. We started out, our initial assessment was about 150 lots, and you can see that's declined over time as we've refined that site plan. But our plan today is at 109 lots after having neighborhood meetings, extensive meetings with staff, and we looking at all of these issues. Again, the what we are proposing today is about half of what you could do on the project on the site under the comprehensive
plan. I want to quickly show you some of these elevations. So you can see all these homes that I'm going to show you on both sides of lots have a two-car garage and a double driveway. S one of the fifty foot lot products. A fifty foot lot product again with a two-story. We are mindful and very aware of the architectural diversity requirements. Those are in our conditions of approval. We will absolutely adhere to those. We also will adhere to the new tree planting requirements within the property.
I think my time is about up. I just want to show you the last slide.
So here's the revised concept plan based on the Planning Commission input. Planning Commission Commissioners, your staff, and the neighbors who really opposed any more traffic uh access on Hale Road. I'm gonna stop now and let Mike take over. You better be fast.
Thirty seconds. Uh uh Michael Razor, Razor Transportation Consultant. Um twenty-five years of experience as a traffic engineer and I have not been sworn. Could we stop the clock so I can get sworn?
All right, stop the clock.
Every second counts.
Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, so help you got.
I do.
Thank you.
So I'm going to condense my presentation and go right to safety. In regard to traffic safety, we were provided with crash data from Pasco County Traffic Operations in March of this year. The data was for the preceding five-year period, which is typical, a typical period for traffic crash analysis. The traffic crash data identified 25 crashes on Hale between US 41 and Collier Parkway, excluding the intersections on either end. The crash data was used to calculate a crash rate for hail, which was identified as 1.6%. six five crashes per
MVM, which is million vehicle miles of travel. The crash rate was compared to crash rates for similar facilities May I finish? In Pasco County and in the Tampa Bay area using data provided by F DOT. For similar facilities in Pasco County, the crash rate for hail was about fift eighty-five percent of the Pasco County crash rate for those facilities, so about fifteen percent less. For sil similar facilities within the Tampa Bay area, the crash rate is about three percent less or 97% of the Tampa Bay crash rate. During discussions with a county engineer, Margaret Smith,
she believed that the implementation of the turn lanes, three of which are not warranted by traffic volumes, would maintain the level of safety and level of service within the area and specifically on Hale Road and not degrade traffic safety or operations and thus fully addresses and effectively mitigates the traffic impacts of the project. And of course, I'll be here to answer any questions that do arise. Thank you.
Um yeah, I I have some questions, but uh board members, do any of you have any questions?
Madam Chairman Just just a couple. I I again I met with um citizens and young lady that's out there right now, I think, um, as well as the app I think it was last week. I think it was last week's. They all work together. So Um I just want to clarify a few things. You might wanna somebody come up. Cindy you can too. I don't I don't I don't know but um just wanna clarify a f few things 'cause going back to the Planning commission meeting. I think there was there was a couple Planning Commission meetings if I was if I'm not correct.
Um there were some concerns. Um and I know one of the big ones with the neighbors, is it like Rosebud Consortium? Is it Continuum?
That's
yeah, Mrs. Bishop's property. Compound of people or what is what is the word?
Um it's uh it's yeah, it's a it's like a school. What's a school? But she lives on the property. Oh, okay. Um they do res studies and stuff with regards to conservation and things like that.
Well I know I know the big thing they were talking about was um environmental aspects of the lake, for example. What about motor boats and things like that. So you have in your you mentioned it earlier, but you have in your deed restriction of s or some type of deed restriction you're gonna put on I I guess the HOA that states that it would only be Um like kayaks, canoes.
Correct. No motorized boats, yes. How many homes are
on this lake at this time?
The south well the north end only has twenty-two lots, and that's what would be a budding. No, no, no,
not yours, not yours, not yours, not yours. Oh, okay. Currently on the lake.
Um how many
hands going
on? I actually don't know. Um
You can't tell. Just don't talk from the audience.
To answer answer your question, Commissioner Moore, I believe the only properties that run on the lake today are Mrs. Bishop. And there's a property to the north, and I I have to look at the area or recall if they have a home. There might be a home on that as well.
I believe there's only two.
I don't know if we're we were committing to not doing it. I don't know that they're not.
Has anybody seen any motorized I mean do you bother in jet skis and ski boats? Or is that the lake's too small for that?
Um I think you could have a little fishing boat, you know, a little scooter boat or something after.
Nobody's seen that before.
I I doubt it. I doubt that there's bass boats on that lake.
No, the only reason I ask is because, you know, I mean we're gonna make sure, you know, if we're gonna Anybody, either side, if they make a concession, we'll make sure it's an even playing field. So there's people out there in the you know cruising around in um in in motorized bass boats that are gonna push oil in there and then you're asked not to do it. I mean we gotta make sure we're all on the same page. Agreed on both sides. So we just want to make sure that that's not going on. Okay, so you made you made that concession, recruit. to that to doing that. Um the dock you mentioned earlier, there was concerns about the dock?
There's a dock there and um Mrs. Bishop has a dock as well on her property that they utilize for their their various functions. And so we committed to go ahead and rebuild our existing dock, but to not build it any larger or in any, you know, aggressive form beyond what they have their dock built. So it's gonna basically look like their dock.
Okay.
One young lady well over the phone or with WebEx or whatever it was. Um yeah, there was the environmental concerns uh about that and other other things. So we're so no motorized boats, no like access for any motorized vehicles on the lake. Okay.
about the um ingress egress being on the main would be on hail road correct so now we've moved for the to the development to the right of of this right okay we've moved that to coyer parkway now um i thought when we had a conversation was was the steam was was the team was our staff still making you have uh like an emergency ingress egress on hail or not Yeah.
That is the access that twenty two lots that hail roads. Well
I know about the twenty two ones,
but
does it go across the street? So th th you're not there's no other access
to
the development to the right.
The one on the south no. The county engineer is comfortable with the access on the collier and the turn lane that was. Yes, it's stubbed out to connect Yeah, there's a stub to the west and there's a stub to that corner property.
Okay.
I'll point out too that the the s the south section that now will be accessed so solely through Collier Parkway only has around
So it doesn't doesn't require that second access because we're not triggering that that higher. Okay,
I just want to make sure we're on the same page. Okay, because those are the things I talked about. I know those were some of the concerns watching the planning plan commission meeting. Um and initially you were looking to For a approval for how many
The comp lane allows for two thirteen. We came in at one fifty, we're down to one oh nine.
Okay, so it was originally two fifty. Two thirteen. Came in at one fifty, down to one oh nine.
And we anticipate we're obviously gonna lose a little bit more as far when the infrastructure goes in, I think as Cindy's pointing out. So
Okay. All right. Um I don't wanna keep having to come back to you, so I'm gonna just make sure if you're okay. I want to make sure I have all those questions answered now. Just wanna make sure that that's solidified. Um Yeah, I think I I will let others talk about it. I know you know there's been talk on on this board about lot sizes and concerns about certain lot sizes, so I know some other people will probably talk about that. Um you know, I because I wanna obviously want to hear the public speak and we're gonna listen to the public speak and uh there's quite a few people that obviously want to
speak. Hopefully you guys are all in you know have have this all arranged so somebody parks talks on one subject and Next one, another subject and another subject, so yeah, you're done.
And not the same thing over again.
Right, because then it just gets mo monotonous and you lose track. So make sure you have the hopefully you have that planned out. Um but um
You don't like it. Yeah, I remember you if I'm not correct and s you guys probably don't remember this because you might not have had a meeting or with the applicant and I think somebody a few years back put out a um a sign to for a public hearing. Maybe there was a meeting. Wasn't there a 7 Eleven at one time supposed to go on along around this lot? Yeah, so. Or maybe the one next door. It was close by, right? So I remember there's a lot of concern about that and I think I don't think, I know that person left. Um Which I don't disagree, that's probably not a a good fit
for a neighborhood like this, right? I I don't disagree. So my my concern about, I'm just gonna say this before we have public comment, is you know we're looking at we're going from 213 to 150 to 109, and now we're making the the entrance x, the ingress egress, the main one on Coir now versus Hale. You know, this is scaled down quite a bit in this thinking about the residents. I've been around for eight years. Um, is that okay,
so we have 109. This gets denied one year down the road or two years down the road or three years down the road. you're gonna have a different board. And they could come in with a huge multifamily project that's going to put 800 units there, because it'll fit. How they stack 'em now. So That's just something I'm thinking about. I mean, you know Being honest, I'm looking at this. It's Most of the traffic's gonna be on coiring now. I know you're gonna have some on hail, but you know, as families grow and your
neighborhoods grow and you bring in young people, I've got three kids now, one's driving, I'm gonna have another one driving three years, another one driving three years, then I'm gonna be on the street asking for money because I'm not gonna be able to afford all the gas for their cars. Um if we have good Yeah, but um 'cause though the other you only have a few on the other side of Hale. You know, I'm just again I'm thinking out loud early here. That's just a concern to me is like you say no now to something small like this, that's gonna have a in my opinion, a very minimal impact to something that can
be a gigantic impact two or three or four years from now. And I can't tell you what's gonna happen down the road with other boards what they're gonna say yes or no to. So that's just something to consider. in here and rezon this for a huge multifamily multifamily project. Or they could add more density. Or the worst could, because you saw seven eleven almost come, this could in you know somebody could come in and wanted this to be a a huge retail project and a big box store could be there. I mean you never know. So just something to
think about. That's it for me for now.
Madam Chair. Yep. Uh my concerns are what size are the lots?
So the lots are forty and fifties. Um we do have I know the the board you know the code and the board's resolution requires that if we go book beyond the fifty percent everything has to be rear loaded. with a recognition of course of the concerns that you guys have about parking. Our fronts are twenty Um but that's twenty from back a sidewalk, so a a full car will be able to fit in the driveway. Two cars actually next to each other. 'Cause you have your five foot, you have your twenty foot.
They They can't park there without parking over that sidewalk and you end up having families or kids playing in the street 'cause they can't play on the sidewalk, can't even actually walk on the sidewalk in my Subdivision pitch foot lots. There's no room to park a vehicle from the garage without crossing the
But if
they have a two car garage
they can put two cars in. it.
I know, but they can can park park two one next next to each other in the driveway. One next to each other. But if you have a one if you you have a single car driveway and a town home, it's they're behind each other. That doesn't
work. Yeah, it doesn't work.
Or if your front I think in it's related too to your front yard setback. So if your front yard setback, I know some of them have ten Um I've heard of you know, you're gonna probably have an issue with it hanging over the sidewalk, but this is twenty from back of sidewalk, so there's plenty of room for two cars to sit in that driveway. And then you'll still have your five foot sidewalk, so Yeah that's I know what you're talking about. I've seen it.
I can't park my my home, I can't park my Ford truck. Between my garage and my sidewalk. Interfering with the sidewalks. Okay.
Well I know the HOA restrictions for th
their
standard because I've looked at them do not allow any commercial vehicle parking overnight or anything of that nature. No
he's just driving a big big old truck. Adolie He's pulling his horses. We have one too, so I know they're they're big. Good
luck if you get code to go on.
Yeah, no we're gonna we we as a board, just letting the development community know, we're gonna be looking hard at the setbacks for specially single car driveways. We looked at photos this morning where the cars are literally Well we can show you one here in a little bit. Um
but I mean
they don't even fit they're in the street.
And you have not much front yard and there's no room to park a car outside the garage that doesn't touch the the sidewalk right now. But it's pitch foot lot.
Yeah. So
I have a real issue with it. Forties and pitch foot lots now.
The depth on these are a hundred and ten, so I I with the hundred and ten and then the twenty foot from back of sidewalk the the cars should fit. Um I probably have a rendering I can pull up and have and send
some vehicles. Yeah, probably twenty feet 'cause it's a bit two fifty forward, so.
Uh what is your setback? Uh I didn't capture
the right-of-way.
So it's twenty from back of sidewalk, which is the difference. So you're gonna have five foot where you have your sidewalk and then you have twenty foot from the back side of that sidewalk to the garage, and you can fit two cars in there on a double, so and not impinge on that five foot. But the teenagers cannot have cars.
See? That's no car. Um or they have to Well like you said, if we can afford anymore. No, I agree. Um but here's my I I do have a question. Did Did you have any? 'Cause I'll jump in with my own. I think the chair should go last. Um I have a question on and this is for staff too, um and we talked about this when I met with you and I sorry I don't remember what The answer was what is an what is the multi-use trail plan for this area?
And I guess that's to my planning staff.
'Cause Call Your Parkway's, you know, got schools and parks and who's coming up?
Yeah.
Because Colin Parkway doesn't have it uh anything on it. I don't I don't even know if it has sidewalks on it.
Yeah it does have a certain spots above the uh Madam Chairman
so
if you look at yeah certain parts of Claire Parkway and they can answer more of it. Uh the library As a sidewalk. Well a trail no, there's not a trail.
No trail. So sidewalks, yeah. So and and when I was um at uh I think it was a political event which was Campaigning I watched all the golf carts come down that sidewalk to pick up their kids at some school down there. Um but I just wanted to know, is there a plan? 'Cause I is is call your pr I see we have right away on the other side. I so it seems to me that is one day Collier gonna be More lanes or s
Looks like we looks like we have land preserved there.
Good afternoon, Madam Chairman Mariano Spitos from the Planning and Development Department. Pasco Mapper, which is a GIS service that we use um in in our planning activities, is uh illustrating that there is a path network established for Collier Parkway, but it's kind of uh stop and go in its application on the maps. Um I'm not sure if that's If there's an error in the layer. But the southern portions of Collier Parkway going from State Route 54
north does include a trail network on it up until about, I would say that is Parkway Boulevard. And then the the layer stops for some reason. The trail network begins again uh at Collier Park. We had Dupree Lakes Boulevard. Uh and then there are trails that um basically go into the uh uh
Natural areas, the conservation lands areas that are east of of Collier Parkway and Bar and Parkway Boulevard. Um it's a little stop and go. It's uh it's I can't answer you the full question at the moment.
Yeah. This is this is to my administrator over here. Um and so when I look here, um there is a sidewalk on the east side of Collier Boulevard. Right? That's uh uh uh there's a sidewalk that goes in front of the library. Yes. And the way of the lakes recreation. Okay. So which side what is planned for the uh other side of Collier Parkway? Because I'm looking at the property appraisers map
and it looks like we have s uh like a Right of way, preservation. Land going along there. Because I asked the applicant. Um were they asked to save land for A multi use trailer said no.
And so I didn't know what the plan was for Collier as a major road in the county. Do we have a plan?
Uh I think I would defer to the uh County engineer who I believe is online and see if she might have an idea.
Maybe there maybe there isn't gonna be one here. I just didn't know
Oh. Okay, my bad. Uh I thought that the County Engineer was online at the moment. So this but that's something that we'll have to research for you.
Yeah, so this is this is an issue for me and I hate to keep beating a a dead horse here and it's not their fault. It's that where's our plan and how how do I know If this is a little bit more than a little bit. to approve this project today fits in with that plan. So uh it's
So I'm not I don't know if what they've designed will allow for a multi use trail on their side One day. Um, and so do we need to ask for more space up front? I mean, but it's so unfair to them for us not to have our plan. So I don't know And I would guess I would ask the applicant, is there room for you Do you have a sidewalk in front of your project on call your I'm
talking about? Exactly. I is it planned for a sidewalk? 'Cause I can't tell on your diagram here and I can't remember. For more conversation. Or is there room to put a multi-use trail there?
If if I may, Commissioner. Yeah. Madam Chair. Collier Parkway, whenever it does get built out, we'll be following our typicals, which do provide the necessary which those typicals do provide the necessary trail and pedestrian facilities on them.
Which side?
Uh when they get built. I think it's for both sides. So but to tell you which side a sidewalk will be on versus an eight foot path, I would have to look at the typical side.
If there's is there already a side block on the one side?
Right. I I'm not able to answer that at the podium, but the staff has the book in front of them when they do with the reviews. Yeah.
Yes or no?
They don't know.
I know. That's I mean we don't know just go on and on about it. I mean it's like we do or don't, you know. It's one or the other. Well I would say that we don't w we don't want to d we can't we're not gonna debate if we know what the future is unless we know the answer to it. Not you. Not you.
I'm not the subject matter expert that deals in those typicals, so I can't tell you that it would be on the east side or the west side of the road. But that information is reviewed when these uh when the site plans come in and the engineering is done for these projects.
No sure. Yeah. The importance of though
forget their project, right? But the of anything that comes up, like the chair's stating We, the team, w need to know the answer to it because that's pertinent to the situation going on. So, I mean I'm just being honest. This should be known. When you have a development that's going to butt a major road like this. So I mean I don't disagree with the chair on this, but we gotta know these things before we get
Okay, so um and I think you'll have plenty of time because there's gonna be a lot of public comment so we can find maybe we can find out more and and put those conditions into the approval if it's on that side. If if that's a thought. So um Um and I I just wanna go over my thoughts on this so far and of course we'll take public comment, but And I w I I wanna say I went out and drove on Hill Road because I wasn't really familiar with it at all. I've been on Callion Parkway many times. Um And if this had
been on Hill Road I would have had major issues. Um Um so uh that is a narrow road and I wonder if there is a plan for it one day to get some fixes. I I see those kind of same conditions on Trouble Creek. There's th th it has kind of that drop off on one end. Um but Caya Parkway is a I think that road's in good shape. Um and and then and there's plans one day to widen it. And um And uh but I'll listen to public comment for
more thoughts. Commissioner
Mariano. Thank you, Madam Clerk and I'm glad you bring up the sidewalks because as well as in uh in the conversation about collier is important. When I when I first look at this we talked earlier Connectivity is important. By going down to one Connection. I think you weakened the whole development anyway. Instead of diversifying where they can go, now they gotta go left right left right. To get out and it it just doesn't make sense to do that to go. When you look at Hale Road, Hale Road and Bell Dake Road I think were two great roads we had done. Years past
to connect. call you to come over. But If you try to go in in Some of these kids that are gonna be living there. Is they're gonna go to Hill Road, they're gonna go down to Heritage Park? How are they gonna get there? You know, anyone c anyone anyone going down that way, anyone on to the forty one whatsoever, you get a narrow, narrow road that's gonna be dangerous. Um I think the neighborhood has developed all around it, but I think most of your lots were 60s, 70s. I mean I don't know why we want to
get away from that. Um I think the larger lot size makes more sense, cuts cuts down your flow and then maybe it enables you to to put in some type of inf infrastructure and sometimes we have developers they actually go out and go off site. and go build more. We we give 'em tr impact fee credits for it, but to go make it safer to go build a sidewalk connecting to another area. This is a very dangerous area on a along a Hale Road to to really look for that. And if you're gonna get in And I'm and I'm just part of the conversation about what's going on Collier
with the roadways or the the sidewalk trails. But if a lot of people are gonna go there and You got people that may want to go play golf at Plantation Palms, take a golf cart, how they gonna get out there? So I mean it's it's it's got issues.
I don't I don't know what the subdivision is just south of this one. I'm looking at it. Um Sable Ridge? Yeah. Sable Ridge. You know, it it don't it it's much larger than this one. This is a discussion we were having this morning. It's not about you guys, it's just amongst us and and policies. I don't know why they didn't connect to Alpine Road or one of these other roads. So, I mean, they all have to come out on the c on the collector. There should be they should have had more ways to connect to their neighbors. Um
But all right, so it's public comment. Um we will I think we have an attorney who's got fifteen minutes. Um, do you want to go first or last? Okay. And then we will have uh three minutes uh for those who each for those who signed up, but we're gonna ask you not to repeat Um 'Cause there's an awful lot of you. Not to repeat the same things your other people the others have said. And s one of the techniques you can use to not
be repetitive.
If you agree with these statements you can raise your hand or s do something as a group, but we would ask you So not have a hundred people come up here and say the same thing. I'd be three hundred minutes of the same thing in it. It's not always a good thing. All right. You have fifteen minutes.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, Commissioner. My name is Jane Graham, attorney and founder of Sunshine City Law, and I represent Marianne Bishop, a neighboring property owner and affected party. Today, KB Holmes has the burden to prove with competent, substantial evidence, that they have met the Pasco County Land Development Code under 402.1, 402.2, and consistency with a comprehensive plan. It's not just parts of it, but all of the goals, policies and objectives.
Your Planning Commission rejected this proposal based on thirteen different criteria. And I have them up here for you to look. It's obviously I'm not going to read through them all, but It just takes one issue with one of the criteria to be rejected, since KB Holmes has that burden. But it wasn't just one thing. And Um so there are lots of things going on. And the other thing before we get into this as well is that you were just talking about unanswered questions about the multi-use
trail plan. Well, that's an insufficiency in their um their master plan and and under four oh two point two C five B six they need to provide a generalized mobility plan and so again the fact that there is a burden to to provide competent substantial evidence that is on KB Holmes. That's not on any of the objectors here today. After the Planning Commission's recommendation for denial, KB Homes tried to change their plan and
add a new access point on Collier Parkway. I've provided a letter with several legal objections based on the fact that this substantial change bypassed the regular review procedure and omitted regular required elements of the master plan itself. And if if I may, Madam Chair, if if I could provide these legal objections right now as as evidence.
Motion to receive a
file.
Second.
All in favor?
Aye.
Thank you. Should I
Thank you. Now aside from these legal objections, KB Holmes is actually directly contradicting what their engineer Robert Fudge said at the Planning Commission two months ago. An access on Collier doesn't work because it would conflict with the existing stormwater pond. Putting the access there means the water would run uphill. And the Planning Commission agreed. They have failed to provide any evidence today to show otherwise. The competent substantial evidence isn't there, so you must deny it. You are going
to hear from Mrs. Bishop, who's lived on the neighboring property owner for over two decades with her family and transformed the land into not only a home but a sustainability center. And you should know that my client has attempted to work with KB Homes. To resolve her issues and be a good neighbor for months prior to being here today. She hired a traffic engineer, Drew Rourke, who uncovered several significant flaws in the earlier analysis, some of which were fixed, and then they have resurfaced. In the evidence submitted, you
have both his November and August reports. Um so Madam Chair, I have another packet of evidence I I'd like to provide and In that I know it's a little dense and I I do apologize. Oh favor. Can you just
walk it over to
that before?
Yeah. So um
Uh yeah, so and also I want you to know that the planning staff has refused to speak with my client and our team over the last few months to address the flaws in the proposal despite numerous requests. My client is not anti-development. She actually owns a construction company.
Madam Chairman Stop, can you just pull your mic a little closer? I'm I I'm kind of having I see some people trying to hear you in the back.
Sure. Okay, thank thank you. My client is not anti-development. She owns a construction company actually. And she'd like to see a project that complies with the code and comp plan and protect the environmental integrity of Lake Rosebud and the environmental subregion connected to the Cypress Creek watershed. She'd also like a conservation easement over the lake, which the comprehensive plan actually requires based on the wetland density incentives which KB Holmes has tried to claim. You will also hear from
members of the community and representatives of a newly formed coalition of neighbors known as Hale No that will speak to the ongoing infrastructure problems. And just PASCO has an innovative code that directs growth in sustainable, environmentally sensitive, and safe ways. We urge you to follow your Planning Commission's recommendation to deny this, and like KB Holmes or someone else. develop it based on the existing Euclidean zoning. And with that I'm going to yield the rest of my presentation to Marianne who's going to
go through and um enter a few other things. And by the way this is the site plan which has a couple things that are missing which are in the legal objections. So
Okay. Um hi everybody. Uh Marian Bishop, [address removed]. You have
been sworn?
I have with the whole group, yes. You just have
to state further.
Oh, okay. I'm sorry. You've been sworn. I think at the last meeting they made us. Okay, sorry. Anyway, my name is Marian. Let me just say I have been sworn as well. Okay. My name is Marian Bishop. Um I along with my husband's son and Owned a nineteen acre acre parcel. We've lived here, as she told you, for over two decades. Um And I do support like the property includes the home and the educational center Rosebud Continuum, which uh um has a variety of agricultural uses which is also um part of my my issue because um
there needs to be we have ag we have property rights as an agricultural um production, but we have um I support the Planning Commission's recommendations to deny this application based on the 13 different criteria. We recommend the property be developed using the existing zoning. Rosebud has a variety of agricultural uses, bee colonies, bat and bird houses, alternative energy sources, multiple things. We have an educational center that partners with schools and community organizations, plus, we have hosted dignitaries from other
countries who come to Rosebud. To learn things from us. The continued water quality of Rosebud is extremely important. It's a naturally occurring lake and Category One wetland. It's been on the map since the oldest map we could find, 1847. We also rely on our well as an agricultural facility, and the quality of our well water is of utmost importance. I offered to buy the parcel with the lake across the lake from KB Homes. and offered to buy it from them and put it in a conservation easement because I want to protect the lake f in
perpetuity. Um they rejected the offer. They did not come back with a um a counter offer. Um so Uh They're trying to benefit from the density of
fact. Do you mind? Yeah. All
right,
sorry.
Can you get into a little more details? Can you show me I need to know I'd like to know what exact parcel that was. Which do you mind?
No, I don't mind. Um Yeah.
Well the parcel that that northern that northwest um parcel is all lake and protected wetlands. So it is an unbuildable um piece of property.
Okay, so not the whole you were looking to build okay, so
So okay. Where is this? I gotta find me. Oh we're up there. It's two you need to um Yeah.
Yeah, I see the l I see the lake, I
see
the pre-lakes. That's you where ab above where it says class three Shadow Pines West. Well
directly north of that? North up at the upper right hand corner where the lake is there. Um it doesn't go all the way to the top. But doesn't like it needs to come down a little bit to see the whole piece, but if you'll see that parcel, um it's class one wetlands, which they have on their plan that they want to put a walkway through it, which I highly, highly object to because of the sensitive nature of the wetlands. Um it's dangerous. For the wetlands, it's dangerous for the kids who may go there, it's dangerous for the water, like the flood. That's
th those roots, as was proven just the other day in our hurricane, that where the sea oats were replaced on the on the beach, it protected the water the land. That's the same thing that these wetland plants do. And to have people be able to walk through that is not a good thing. But anyway, my thing was I want I offered to buy it and put it into a conservation easement. and protect it as a conservation easement, as the Pre Lakes has done above it, and I want to do on our side of the lake. I basically want to protect the lake as the original owner
of this property requested when we moved in. Um Betty Franzel, who was the owner, she came over, you you were talking about the The uh the gasoline engines in the boat in the lake. When we purchased that property, she came over and she said, This has never had gasoline engines in it, and I don't want you to ever do it and I don't want you to ever allow it. And I said, I'm on board. And I'm trying to do that. Um
Well thank you. I I just was curious
how much. So anyway that was part of it. So all right. Um So, KB Home's proposal is incompatible with the zoning of the surrounding properties, including mine, many which are agriculturally zoned for rural and environmental uses. The staff's post-planning commission report fails to mention any of this address surrounding agricultural and conservation uses. We have farm animals which create noise and to some unpleasant smells. I don't want to have to endure the consequence from neighbors who are content to live in a neighborhood with minimal nature. to that find reasons to complain about what I'm
illegally able to do on my property. Just recently a neighbor from up the road got in his car to try to find what he thought was a child screaming in pain, only to find out that one of my goats was ready for breakfast. For reference, my goats are always ready for breakfast. Um We also can't keep our bees from and other pollinators from leaving our property, because we do raise bees and and have honey, um, to go to a neighborhood that is so close that might be using insecticides. That will in fact kill part of our crop. Um The surrounding
lot sizes are all much larger. Um you can see here what the lot sizes are up and down hail. We're a very established, long established neighborhood as opposed to a lot of the new developments that are going on on large pieces of property. This is like trying to fit in something that that is that doesn't fit. It's been stated that I'm not a good neighbor by representatives of KB Homes. I dispute that. I've been able to work with developers around my property before to come to an agreement. Here's a letter from Ben Harrell, representing Beezer Homes for Depree Lakes,
which was built in 2003, where they agreed to eliminate the 40 and 45-foot lots. They reduced the amount from 1,100 and something to 745, all by sitting down and having discussions prior to even going. Going to the Planning Commission. I have the letters stating that we all in agreement, we're going to move forward. Depree Lakes is, I'm still always in contact with them. If there's community issues, we work together. They put the property on the north side of the lake into a conservation easement. And we w we'd like for that other part of the KB
Homes to do that same thing. uh if they build. Road safety is a major issue. I'm going to let that go because I know other people have a lot of information on that. Don't want to have to go through. So anyway, I want to say that I'm disappointed that I personally had to hire a traffic expert to speak with KB Holmes after spotting a few significant issues in their substandard road analysis. KB Holmes ultimately had to agree and significantly change their work. Pasco County staff was given the same information and did not raise the
issue. I'm sure you agree that it is unacceptable that as a private citizen I should bear the burden to make sure that these reports are adequately reviewed. I would like you to, in your packet, you'll get the latest November 8th report from the land planner. I mean, the traffic expert that I had to hire again regarding the Collier Road exit. And he says, it appears that Callier Parkway is part of the cost feasible plan to be widened to four lanes. The planned widening is shown as
going to four-lane divided highway, which means it will have a median. The minimum full medium access which would be required for their left turns out on Call Your is 660 feet. Therefore, based on the planned improvement on Cau Your Parkway, this access would not meet the access management standards. So I encourage you to review the the traffic consultant that I've hired. His report will be in your packet. So after the let's see what We talked about them
pushing that like where they're wanting at the Planning Commission they continued to talk to about write in and write out. If you go back and listen to that, that's all they talked about being the at the caller parkway entrance exit, sorry, um being right in and right out because of the at the close access to Hale Cauyer and to the Sable Ridge exit. If that's the case, and that's what ends up happening, that will do nothing but add more traffic to Hale because everybody will have to come down Hale to turn right to turn right to get in there. So um anyway let
me see what else I got here.
I'm a little nervous here. Okay, um Bottom line, I'm asking you to listen to your planning commission. They rejected this application. My neighbors and I have private property rights, and your decisions today must follow the criteria to hold developers accountable so that the burden is not passed on to your residents, both through tax but also the potential of flooding and further infrastructure disruption. We want to be good neighbors, and KB Homes says they want to be good neighbors as well. To do this, KB Homes should follow the recommendation to do. develop under the existing zoning. Thank you.
I wonder if there there's one thing since we have four minutes to sum up. I've heard the applicant repeatedly say, Well, we have a land use element we you know our our designation for future land use is residential six, so we can build all the way to the highest density. If you look at future land use element appendix A-4 two of the comprehensive Plan, it says a property owner is not entitled to all zoning classifications or the most potentially dense or intense
zoning classification within a land use classification. In some cases, the application of zoning, subdivision, environmental, and other regulations may result in an actual project density less than the maximum permitted by the comprehensive plan. Mm. The future land use map does not guarantee that maximum densities will be achieved in all cases and does not serve as a substitute density for the limit in place of any other regulations that would place further restrictions and or limitations on the development
of density of a parcel. So I I I do want to leave you with that, that you know this is a decision that you have today. to make you're going to hear from all sorts of members of the the immediate community in the neighborhood who have specific observations which I would also like to remind you if if you have a layperson testimony and a specific observation that is competent substantial evidence. So I I ask you to listen and thank you very much for your attention.
Thank
you.
Okay. So do you want them just to go through the list or do you want them to come up?
Um what you call the first five people. Okay. And then we'll have you line up.
All right, I have Emery Bragg, followed by Richard Valdez, followed by Joyce Bragg. Drew Roik or Roiky?
M Madam Chair, before the four speakers, she's handing documents, so let me say move to receive and file.
I think we already did that motion and I just didn't come in.
Well we need them move to machine file.
All in favor? So Drew Roickey, Debbie Martinez, and Valerie Van Strander.
Oh
actually uh uh Drew Rourke was our traffic engineer but he's unable to come right now. So Okay. So we can Okay.
Emory Bragg? Yes. Thank you. Name and address and whether or not you've been sworn.
Say it again.
Name, address, and whether you've
been
sworn. Thank you.
Good afternoon. I'm Emory Bragg reciting at [address removed]. That's about a quarter mile from Forty One on Hill Road.
And you have been sworn. And you have been sworn.
I have. Thank you. Oh I'm sorry. Thank you. Hellroad is a substandard road which has narrow width and strong curves. Ditches, lake canals, mailboxes, fences, power poles within a couple feet. From the road. Drivers have enough to watch out for and adding
What my fault is not too smart. On July 16th on this year, a motorist knocked down 167 feet of my fence. It's no longer good. Also destroyed a power pole in front of my home. After hitting the pole it finally stopped by crashing into my neighbor's fence. You need the Florida Highway, if you need the Florida Highway incident number, I got it. I say bringing in this many of new dwellings will destroy
the ambiance We have moved here for. Three more poles were just added near the accident site and they are very close, such as two feet. The new circle K at the end of Forty W uh at Hell Row. It just had its fence crashed in too. First home from 41 on South Side has been hit many times. Uh I believe if allowing this kind of a project is established in neighborhoods will be the demise
of the small town neighborhood. Hellroad is a substandard and dangerous. Please note how your own experts from the Pasco County Engineering Services Design Division described Hale Road on the last page of its February 2004. Bay Lake Road Extension Route Study. quote, an extremely narrow roadway with substandard geometric curvatures, without shoulders or adequate drainage. All
of which is compounded with the z Extent school bus traffic.
And conditions have only gotten worse since two thousand one.
You have another minute.
And conditions have only gotten worse since two thousand four, with all the can additional traffic created by the many new housing units that have been added to the area in the last eighteen years, and the extension of Conger to Erin Cutoff and the closure of Bell Lake Road. To truck traffic. There are about fifty utility poles in or right on the edge of the required six foot clear zone next to the pavement, some located around severe curves that many people
take. Way too fast. And that's it.
Thank you.
Well when I had pictures I got myself.
Mm-hmm. Richard Valdez?
Richard E. Baldez, uh [address removed]. I've been sworn in. And uh I'm gonna switch it up a little bit. You don't mind. The thing about it is is that I've uh moved from Tampa years ago into this area. And uh seemed like the Inner city came and followed me. Over. Now the thing about it is is
that I'm not gonna go too much more into any detail on that. But we I have a chart on there if you don't mind. I think it was a it was a fire station uh response. There it is, right there. Um The uh it moved right on with me and I also serve on the HOA board of R uh Sable Ridge. The uh the thing about it is that We have substandard Response times. If you can see this year, February uh January and February of this year. We have response
times for ambulance, for first responders. First responders. Almost took three hours for response because they had no ambulance available. They had none none whatsoever at those particular days. Now, That is unacceptable to me. Now if we don't f set any allocations for allocations for uh first responders, fire stations, and also Um The uh Sheriff's Office. I
think it was back in March when uh Sheriff Narkel asked for four hundred more deputies. Share in the responsibility to patrol these areas of concern: Hail Road, Bell Lake, Collier Parkway. Now whatever you can do, I mean th it was substandard we 'cause we don't have any more additional s uh substations for the sheriffs. We didn't allocate Or any type of any type of money to uh for
our first responders and our law enforcement to come in and to re- patrol these areas. Now We're talking about We're talking about Widening roads. And going down there and widening roads, you can widen them all up. But guess what? What you're gonna have is you're gonna make them into nothing but drag strips. For these teenagers. And if you add any more problems to this, even to this day he wanted 400. for the
standard the this time, much less adding more to the responsibility of our Residents. Two oh to protect our own property and to protect our own lives. And the response time also when I also uh dealing with the uh sheriffs with the uh HOA board, they was their response time even on the even on the non-emergency number. was
over forty five minutes to an hour. That response times they didn't have anybody in the area. They had to pull them off of some place else. So uh that's it. Thank you very much.
Chairman Mariano Chairman.
Okay. Just addressing what he had brought up. Over that was in February there was a peak over those few months. It actually went from seventeen down to thirteen down to in May it was down to six days out of the month that there was the utilization um that we were having less ambulances. But That three hour mark was accumulative throughout the entire day, but as of May, there was only six days out of the month and they were all less than accumulative thirty minutes per day. And we've also added two new ambulances
for peak hour times on September nineteenth. And we're adding two additional peak hour ambulances to help address your concerns.
And our our Sheriff doesn't do substations and um we gave in his budget this year money for for it's forty more deputies, so he's got money for forty more deputies, so Yeah but we're not gonna go back and forth. Okay, so Joyce Bragg. And could you ask the um give me three more names to line up there,
please? Joyce Bragg, Drew Roike, Debbie Martinez, Valerie Van Strander.
My name is Joyce Bragg. I live on [address removed]. And I was presentation.
Please be sure to say if you were sworn in or not.
What?
Were you sworn in? Did you
Were you sworn in?
Yes. Thank you. On Friday, November fourth, around six forty five A.M., a garbage truck was attempting to back into Tamley Lane from Hill Road. The truck failed to complete the sharp turn where the narrow dirt road drops into a ditch on both sides, leaving it stuck in the ditch. Many other vehicles have gotten stuck in the same location, including cars, pickup trucks, trucks with boats on trailers, and even tree truck. that was entering Tamney
to clear a lot. This location is the school bus stop where Land O' Lakes High School students have been picked up just half an hour before. There is no lighting in the area. The way this garbage truck got stuck blocked Hill Road making it impassable for e from either direction. Cars coming from the east and west were turned down to Deerhound Road, but cars from in the east had no place to pull over or turn around. Once traffic ba
started backing up, some big pic up trucks started turning around in the grass on the side of the road in front of the retention pond for the All Says Subdivision. Cars tried to follow with one barely making it. Another car attempted to cross the grass to get to Deerhound, but got stuck in the ditch signalling other dr cars to stop trying. A school bus coming from the east tried to turn around in front of the pond, but also got stuck. A Pasco deputy
arrived on the scene and gave an event number, but explained there wouldn't be a report because there wasn't technically a vehicle crash. This happens often resulting in an under-reporting of incidents on Substandard Hill Road. Two tow trucks arrived on the scene. A larger one pulled the truck garbage truck out first. Another deputy arrived on the road, was blocked in order for it to pull out the school bus. The smaller trow tow truck pulled the
stuck vehicle out at Deerhound, ending the ordeal nearly two hours after it had begun. By this time, Pineview Middle School students, Conerton Elementary students, Sanders Memorial Elementary students, and Imagine Charter School students would have been waiting at the same corner for buses. Other Pineview Middle School students would have been walking around, walking down Hill Road as they have no longer received courtesy busing. It
may not always be a garbage truck and a school bus, but it is commonplace for vehicles to get stuck or crash. The majority of the time there is no report made. L tow trucks are called but law enforcement isn't present. Just a few short months ago my own fence was badly damaged when a car careened off the road driving s right through it.
Emergency v services were called to [address removed] Just east of the incident If Hill Road is blocked as it is, was as it was on November 4th, there is no way for emergency services to get through. Clearly from pictures they can't go through the grass and there is no shoulders. No shoulder. Hill Road is substandard.
Thank you very much.
Ma'am? That's your
time. Okay. Thank you. And uh where are the other people that whose names we call?
Um Drew Ricking, I don't know if he's here yet, Debbie
Yeah, but I wanted to call four or five names so they're lined up.
Valerie Van Strander, Lily, is it it zoo? Uh Mary Combs. April Wakefield.
If you could line up behind there, please. If you want to speak,
thanks. Go ahead. Hi, my name is Deborah Martinez. I live at [address removed] and I was sworn in. Thank you, Mark. My property is adjacent to where The uh twelve homes are gonna be built or fifteen homes. I haven't gotten a clear message yet. directly by my house. I mailed everyone out in the commission my presentation today because I knew that I was only given three minutes and I wasn't going to get through this. But I do want
to clue in on a couple of things. You'll see up on this board some real conditions that happened on Hale Road. The young lady in front ahead of me did say that a lot of things weren't reported, and that's true. Where we live, my son lives directly in front of me, and that's property and they frequently pull out cars and trucks out of ditches there. The latest one you'll see a uh crash there. She didn't realize that there was a ditch with water in it because the grass was
grown and water and so she got stuck and that happens often. I have personally been privy to accidents that have happened in that road to my family. I know they don't count what happens on Hale and Collier or Hale and 41. But I'm gonna tell you a young lady distracted turning on two hail to take the shortcut her words to forty one crashed into my niece. Totaled
her car, my niece, her husband, and my two great nieces, ages seven and four, were taken by ambulance to the hospital. Terrible accident. My niece is still recovering. The little ones still have panic attacks and her husband still has issues from the accident. So yes, maybe it wasn't on hail. She was turning on to hail. So yes, those accidents do happen. And I have many more listed in this document and you'll see many more here that happen. The
schools walking, these kids scare me to death in the morning. They're walking on a road, on the road, because they can't walk in the ditches or on the water. And they cars are passing them literally I have some pictures where there just barely enough room to get by. And these kids are walking in the dark in the morning, sometimes or in the afternoon. It's not a good situation on Hill Road. There's too many cars on there now. The flooding that occurs in my home, which you'll also
see on this video, is already significant. We realized that. There were orange groves that had to be removed, so we left plenty of property between my son's and my home so that water could evaporate and go away. We still have standing water right next to it is where they want to bring in All these homes. I asked a gentleman at the first meeting, and they said this wasn't true, but he's sitting right there with the glasses, and I said I already have flooding
if you put all these houses. And his worst to me were we are bringing in ten or fifteen feet of fill. So we'll grade it off so it flows away from your house. What? Ten or f I mean I I know Thank you very much. Yes, I I just
Okay. Come on up.
Uh before I begin, do I enter can I enter this into the record? That's communications from the school board.
Okay, I didn't hear what you said, but uh uh all in favor? Aye, aye. Okay.
Speak into that mic. My name is Valerie Van Strander. I have been sworn in. I live at [address removed]. This plan is not consistent with our way of life. Most of us have large properties, summer zone for agriculture. We have chickens, goats, and horses on this road. I live on about a half an acre and my yard is one of the smallest on Hale. There are no forty to fifty foot lots on Hale. Commissioner Starkey, at the October 11th meeting, you mentioned to Commissioner Moore that you plan to take a drive through our area. I'm glad that you were able to do that. that. You also expressed a lack of enthusiasm for f forty foot lots while maintaining they have their place. Well this isn't it. And at the September
22nd hearing with the Planning Commission, Mr. Moody said, I'm done with 40-foot lots and I'm done with 50-foot lots. Mr. William agreed, saying, I don't like the 40 and 50-foot lots either. This is a rural community. I'm a native of Land O' Lakes. Most of us live here for the green space, rural charm, and country feel. Land O' Lakes used to truly represent Pasco's open spaces, vibrant places. But we're in danger of losing it because some people think green spaces are just donuts waiting to be filled. Now I'm not anti-development. I just believe property rights should exist for everyone impacted, and all of us who live in the area will be negatively affected by this. We should matter too, not
just the sellers and those who stand a profit. I have developers, brokers, and attorneys in my immediate family who make a living from development here in Pasco. I respect what they do. I appreciate hospitals, roads, and good food. But I also appreciate a quick response time when I call 911. We have such a shortage of 911 operators, first responders, teachers, and bus drivers that they've considered calling in the National Guard. We can't even sustain our current population. I used to work at Conerton Elementary, which is the district where I live, though it's seven miles away, while Pineview Elementary is just two. One of the reasons for these boundaries is overcrowding. Most of the schools in our area have portables. Nobody wants their child to have
to walk through the rain to switch classes, go to lunch, or go to the bathroom. And unfortunately, we have to recognize the modern danger kids face in a portable during an active shooter situation. Due to shortages, we also have kids walking almost two miles to school in the elements. In our area, that means without a sidewalk or any safe place to walk, the ditches on hail are impassable due to flooding and weeds, so these kids have no choice but to walk in the middle of the road. In the planning hearing, Mr. Girardi questioned whether it was worth one kid and admitted not if it was his. Well, not mine either. And are kids gonna be crossing hail to get from one of these parts of the neighborhood to the other if there's parks?
Because that's not gonna be safe. We have developments going up all around us, including under a mile from the proposed development. As an Army veteran, I appreciate tunnels to towers, but I feel for the Gold Star moms that will have to send their kids to school on foot over a mile away because they have to work and we have no buses. We just don't have the infrastructure to sustain this growth right now. I've contacted the Pasco County School Board requesting input. They've shared data regarding school capacity busing and shortages. As you can see from the data, all the schools in the relevant boundaries are frozen for school choice, which effectively means there is no choice. We have 49 bus driver shortages. The so-called solution to this problem eliminates
152 courtesy rides for Pineview Middle School students and 161 for Land O' Lakes High School. Buses are still full, they're late nearly every day before and after school. I can't get a clear answer as to whether courtesy buses will be available for elementary next year. There must be a better solution. Although the school board has been helpful in providing answers to some of my questions, I'm still waiting for response to others. For instance, the data shows relatively small numbers for the projection of new students. It is imperative that all these new developments be included in the counts, but it doesn't appear the numbers reflect that. In the Planning Commission hearing on September 22nd, regarding this input, Mr. Williams reported a projected number
of 20 elementary students, 11 middle school students, and 14 high school students just for this development. If that's the count from this one new development, how do the numbers provided by the school board account for all of the new developments? Aaron Mill, Pristine Lake, Banjo Lake, the data doesn't make sense. How can you make decisions based on incomplete data? Please listen to the recommendations of your planning commission. As Mr. Moody said, you don't have to approve every MPUT application. This development is unsafe, incompatible, inconsistent, unsustainable, and underplanned. I respectfully request that you just deny this MPUD.
All right, thank you. She got a lot in.
I'm sorry, but you can't do that in here. That's why we have bailiffs here, so no clapping and noises from the
states. Madam Clerk. I think we found someone who could talk faster than Mike Moore and Lucy.
She absolutely got a lot in. Probably no one else has to speak.
Uh good afternoon. My name is Lily Zoo and I have not been sworn in, nor have my two classmates who will be speaking for two minutes.
Okay, we're gonna stop for a second. Anyone who wants to speak? And hasn't been sworn in, you need to raise your hand. And we're gonna swear on e everybody who has not otherwise will be here till tomorrow. Okay, that's it? Okay. Okay, go ahead
and stand if you're gonna be sworn in.
Okay. Please raise your right hands. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, so help you God.
High.
I do.
Okay. Hop one in the back. I didn't hear you.
Okay, thank you. You may proceed.
Good afternoon. My name is Lily Zoo and I live on [address removed]. I'd like to start by thanking you for watching our previous meeting with the Planning Commission Board. We as students appreciate our opportunity for our voices to be heard. It is an honor to represent those of the over 2,000 student stakeholders at Land O' Lakes High School next to Hale Road. Our team has researched our county's land development code, and thus we would like to briefly share some some of our observations with its inconsistencies in relation to this rezoning. I would also like to share that personally
I am an aspiring scientist and current Scientific Journal Club president who wants to commit myself for our future, and I would like to thank all county scientists, the planning commissioners, and Mr. Moore and Mr. Taylor for our conference call. From contact with the Southwest Florida Water Management District, there are currently no data collection stations nor permit for the lake by the continuum yet. Land O' Lakes High School is right near Hill Road with over 2,260 students as the biggest school of our county. With nude heavy daily
congestion, I speak with the strained teachers and staff who work very hard every day to make sure us students' needs are addressed. This picture does not come close to the severely strained infrastructure. Three years ago, as a freshman living two miles from school, 2.5 miles from school, it took about seven minutes to get to school in the morning. It is now over twenty minutes. I am concerned for the safety of not just myself, my peers, and my staff of our school, but also in our community, as evacuations and emergency situations may become
more difficult. During our fire drills, the crowding in the hallway crams us together. Every day, many of us have to take detour routes from the back of the school by the dumpsters and parking lot to g to get to most of our classes because of the crowded hallways. Much more personal and concerning experiences of safety are contained in the 200 student letters I have sent you. We would like to see all inconsistencies with criteria 402.1 and 402.2 of the Pasco Land Development Code completely resolved.
Pretty good. Yeah.
I also spend hours at a time with my classmates by Hale Road on the Rosebud Continuum property. Its unique value-growing character, proximity to the natural lake, and the neighboring historical longleaf pine habitat have made it unique. As we Pasco students volunteer and learn about nature, we view the sensitive species the Rosebood had worked for years upon years to preserve, such as the South American Kestrel and the diverse baths and gardens with novel research. There, we are able to pursue our curiosities and dreams for a better future. I would
like to see proof today that all criteria of the Pasco County Comprehensive Plan and Land Development Code are met thoroughly. I hope to be part of the movement. improvement for a solution. I trust that the decision for the integrity and prioritization of our safety and future will be made today. Thank you for listening to our voices. Thank you. Good job.
Okay, next. Mary Combs.
Most to receive a file. Second. Second.
All in favor? Aye.
Did you want
to say something more?
Um I have
two classmates who are scheduled to come up with the M.
Oh, you want to be in sequence? Are you trying to be in sequence? Do you guys mind? Okay. They should be in line.
All right.
Next we have
Ajinkia.
Just second. Okay, if you guys have like a rolling presentation, you need to be in line one after the other.
Okay?
Uh can I sort
name and address and then for the record that you've been sworn.
My name is Ojinkia Bardalaj, I live at [address removed] and I have been sworn in. As a student driver, my friends and I, including friends from sports teams and buses, know the extent to which infrastructure is congested. When I do have to take the bus home, it is overcrowded. The bus fills up in a matter of minutes. My friends and I often have to squeeze in three to a seat, while the bus seats are only made for two people. Furthermore, sometimes we even have to sit on the floor of the bus because of a lack of seats. This severely impacts our learning environment and quality of life as a student. As a young driver,
I was planning on going through Hill Road in order to reach my school faster, but my parents have not allowed me to. Citing section 402.1E6 and 402.2 F two in the Pasco County Land Development Code, the congestion resulting from the development may result in higher traffic on Hill Road. Which is a one-way uh one-lane road. With higher traffic on the one-lane road, I fear probab the probability of an accident occurring will increase. Knowing that some of my friends and even some of the buses from my school use Hill Road, I worry for their safety. As
City B4 isn't this isn't just my grievance, but that of many students in Land O' Lakes, evident by the letters we have received regarding the same issue. I am by no means against development, however, I would like to also see this development. Completely meet all the criteria of the Pasco Land Pasco County Land Development Code as a student stakeholder. I look forward to carefully plan decisions to allow for the brightest outlooks of every member of our community and land use. Thank you for your consideration on this important important subject.
Sir, uh did you sign up? I just wanna make sure I check your name on.
Uh I don't think so.
Okay. I just didn't. I wanna make sure I get through everyone.
Um hello, my name is Roshid Shanvas and I'm from [address removed].
Okay, um hello, my name is Roshid Shanvas and I'm from [address removed]. And I saw
that you studied, but you have to say it for the record that you were sworn.
Oh yes, and I have been sworn in too.
Thank you. Go ahead.
Um, hello and thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk today. I am a Land O' Lakes High School Senior and Vice President of the Scientific Journal Club. As an aspiring doctor who is passionate about people and our surrounding, our safety and our health is the basis and foundation of our lives. I know friends parents who work for the Sheriff's and Health Departments near Hale and Land O' Lakes, and the strain and the strain these systems are under must be helped. As a student who's lived in Pasco
County for all of my life, I've come to very much Love the nature and the wildlife that it contains. Our surroundings, the lakes, the wildlife, and all of us are interc interconnected one way or the other. This is of great value to everyone. Everyone I know and talk to greatly loves the wetlands, lakes, cypresses, uh anyone from young children to old retired veterans who have served for our country and our s um safety and as I read their letters
for you I realize this further. I personally also love the fresh air, quiet scenery, and clear lake of Rosebud continuum. I feel that the Rosebud is one of the remaining environmental oases in this sprawling county. With high density development possibly coming to this location, I fear that it will greatly affect The environment, um, animals and people living here. For example, in Wiregrass I saw that as the pol population increased, so did the
number of um roadkill and other uh Yeah, Rodkill. I hope that the lakes and endangered and non-endangered animals and fauna at the Rosebud Continuum is protected. Overall, like the other student stakeholders, I would like to see all criteria met for our best decisions, and I would like to end our school's message on a positive and hopeful note. Thank you and goodbye.
Thank you.
And I had a presentation on there.
Madam Chairman, Commissioner, hi, I'm Mary Coons. I live at [address removed]. Uh that's in Sable Ridge and I have been sworn in. In a nutshell, our infrastructure we have now is broken and there are a number of issues involved. Sable Ridge, if you look at some of these, has expanding road depressions, repeated open holes in the roads and easement, and burst and leaking underground pipes. And examples when a neighbor stepped through uh
the pavement while playing football. The county fixed it in 2019 and this summer a hole w opened up in the road again in the same location. Just on my street alone there's been five places where road crews have had to come out and repair underground pipes. Pasco Stormwater said the entire street needs to have piping replaced. Sable Ridge residents on the south side of Hill Road are already having multiple problems with displaced water issues due
to land being elevated. on neighboring streets. This has caused flooding, saw erosion, and staining water in yards, largely due to misplace displaced water. With our current drainage problems, where's the overflow from the new construction going to go? And who takes responsibility and the model they choose to use even would cause more flooding and erosion? excuse me. K B. Holmes now plans to put their southern exit
onto Collier. This will undoubtedly create a dangerous bottleneck on Collier. Uh and a tremendous amount of frustrated drivers who So only exit out of the streets and subdivisions by turning on to collier. As it is now, you oftentimes have to gun it to try to merge onto Collier. With heavy school bus traffic on Collier, frustrated drivers have been seen going around stopped school buses that had their lights out and their lights flashing
and the sign out. This is not acceptable. I received an email from an angry mother who cannot be here today, but said that she started using her phone to video cars and trucks as they're passing buses that have stopped to load and unload students. Unfortunately, we do not have enough serfs to patrol, nor enough bus drivers to accommodate our students. Megan Harding on the school board recently stating that lack of school bus drivers is a
huge safety issue. Another issue I'd like to address is the available and cost of reclaimed water. When reclaimed water is low, especially during a drought, lack of water pressure puts strains on everyone in a deed-restricted subdivision, like say Ridge. that has long requirements. Increased demands on these will have a negative impact on the surrounding areas. Because of our current infrastructure problems and not wanting to make a bad
situation worse, we respectfully submit that you deny the rezoning request for Hell Road. Thank you.
Thank you. I've got um April Wakefield followed by Dick uh Candelaro, Betty Candelaro, Mike Della Penna, and Danny Martinez.
I mean.
Oh she's got some documents.
Move to proceed.
All in favor? Aye.
Aye.
Okay. My name is April Wakefoot. I live at [address removed]. My parents bought in nineteen seventy in Lake Page. I returned left there as an adult, came back. Live there now. I have been sworn in. I've cut this up quite a bit, but um Basically, as we've discussed, there are conditions on Hill Road that uh and Collier that are a great concern and Just moving it to Collier is not eliminating or alleviating the problem because people are gonna cut down hail to get to 41. That's the fastest route. On
it is especially dangerous, either Hale or Collier during the traffic, school traffic times and peak times. Collier Parkway is a two-lane road all the way up to Hale to just south of Parkway Boulevard, on and off sidewalks. The proposal to add an ingress-egress onto Collier is especially grievous as most of the streets and subdivisions along Collier only have one exit. All exit on to call your so getting in and out in an event of an emergency, a disaster, or any other situation, or getting Uh emergency
vehicles in there becomes a a difficult time when you're so backed up. The pictures that I handed out show off peak times, not school times, regular times I'm driving down the street and it's backed up. So the proposal I already read that one. Okay. Um parents are even standing out on the street during times to get their kids on and off of the school bus acting as crossing guards because there's no nobody there and the cars are going so fast. A student, we don't want to be like Pennys County where a student in Largo in a small subdivision was killed in August going to the school
bus stop. So um it's it's very very dangerous and as you mentioned earlier Madam Chairman this is a huge road grid issue and a concern for the entire community because this is a small road and it has hundreds of developments going into it. Not hundreds, but nearly. This includes developments that will use Collier Parkway, tunnels to towers, the Ban tunnels to for towers, the Banjo Lake Development, Alpine Road and Bell Lake Development, Pristine Lakes, Erin Mills, and the multitude of other
other developments off of Erin Road. The residents of Depree Lakes, Wilderness Lakes, and Calente already use Collier and 54 and Hale to exit those two areas. Uh the traffic is unbelievable. It is out of control and providing another approval for another development is adding more traffic. Um I respectfully request and implore you to deny the Hill rezoning request and do not make any further decision that will make our situation worse.
Thank you. Thank you.
Stick candle water.
Madam Chair, do you know what school is?
Like Uh there's a school around the corner. I was emailing the school district because there's no sidewalks there. Um let me just pull my map back up. Go ahead.
I'm Dick Candelora. I live on [address removed], at Dead End Street off Hale Road. I have been sworn. The Planning Commission recommended that you deny this project. The costume violates thirteen different sections of the LDC and the Comp Plan. The developer made a change to the project after that denial, but it makes the situation worse. The change is moving the access for the homes that lie south of Hale Road from Hale to Collier Parkway. You've heard a lot about the traffic related problems.
Two new left-hand turns that are going to have to be made on Collier. What you haven't been told about is that it creates a serious drainage problem. To accommodate the collier access, the drainage pond has to be moved from its natural location at the lowest point on the property to a higher point further south. Now K B Holmes didn't propose this. It was brought up by Attorney Goldstein during the Planning Commission hearing. And when the K D Holmes
representative was asked about it, He said that the engineers that they had hired from Florida Land Design had, and I quote, looked at that and ruled that out due to wetland impacts and the limited furniture and the spacing requirements of the code. When Mr. Goldstein persisted, the K. B. Holmes engineers and the two engineers on the Planning Commission, Mr. Mooney and Mr. Girardi, pointed out you need to have the drainage pond at the lowest point on the
property because that's where water flows. The KB Holmes engineer said moving the pond from its present location would reduce its ability to capture drainage because you're trying to move water uphill. He also said moving the pond would disrupt its connection to the natural drainage system of the area. Now this change creates the three problems. The one supposed benefit is minimal. They are only projecting
a ten percent reduction in the number of their cars going from their project to State Road forty one. They made it sound like it's not gonna be using any one forty one. If you look at their new projection It used to be fifty percent of the cars going there. Now it's forty percent. It's only a ten percent reduction, and even that is unsupported. that 40% reduction is based on a discredited study, which after we pointed
out the problems with it, they reverted back, they did a new one and made it up to 50%. Why they went back to the 40%, I don't know. They don't give a reason. They they just say it's because we move the access, but they don't say why moving the access would change the percentages at all. So in short, an unacceptable project has been made worse and it should be rejected. Thank you.
Thank you. Okay, and call up uh three more people after uh
right. Um I believe this is Betty Candelaro. We have Mike Della Penna, followed by Danny Martinez, Dena Uh is it Muritki. Maurice. Thank you.
Uh Betty Candelora, [address removed]. I have been swarmed. Um my street intersects Hale Road. Flu 1.10 of the Comp Plan says a property owner is not entitled to the most potentially dense or intense zoning classification. within a land use designation. Rather, a number of factors must be evaluated to determine whether the proposed project is appropriate for the
parcel, including existing uses of land and existing development patterns and approved development in the area. This project should be rejected because the proposed lot widths of 40 to 50 feet are much smaller than the lot widths in the existing developments that have been improved in the area. At the Planning Commission meeting, I testified that I had reviewed the map on the property appraiser's website and counted eight subdivisions that have been approved along
Hale Road. They contain a hundred and fifty seven lots, which are all at least eighty feet wide. Uh during rebuttal the developers representative said Sable Ridge, the subdivision to the south on Collier Parkway, should also be considered since it backs up to the subject property. So I looked at those lots on the property appraisers website. They average at least sixty feet in width. This shows that the existing pattern of development for the
area entails lots which average 70 feet wide. In stark contrast, the average width of a lot in the proposed project is forty five feet, They want to cram three homes into the space where the existing approved projects only have two. This is inconsistent with the approved development pattern in the area. and therefore conflicts with the review criteria in the Land Development Code. Requiring wider, therefore
fewer lots is particularly critical since you as you've heard, Hale Road is substandard two-lane roadway, which is already dangerous. The map on the screen shows where my street, Pineywood, it's it's the it's the gray road on the top. Um it's a dirt road where it intersects with s with hail. Um People on hail can't see me when I pull out. It's such a sharp angle there and
a curve. they can't see me when I pull out and I can't see them until they come around the bend. So if you add 500 trips per day and you will cr create about 180,000 opportunities per year for serious injury or worse. Flu 1.10 says you should not let development get ahead of the infrastructure. Approving 109 new housing units would do that. Thank you.
Thank you.
Hi, my name is Mike Delapen. I live at [address removed] in uh Lake Page East. I've lived there for thirty-two years and yes I have been sworn in.
Thank you.
Uh just basically uh I work in Tampa most of the time. Um Three times in the last three months I've been on 41 going south from Hale Road because I take Hale Road out to 41 all the time. And um the traffic has been backed up to the circle K. So we all know, or at least I believe you know, that 41 and 54 intersection is a disaster. And at the Planning Commission meeting, um
I stated I didn't think that any more developments should be approved, period. Until the roads are improved, in particular Collier Parkway. Now the reality of it all is is this. Um
Collier Parkway was supposed to be widened in two thousand and twenty-four. At the planning meeting, somebody in the planning group said that uh Hale Road wasn't on the list of having anything done to improve it until 2040. Uh I don't see that happening and I probably won't be around when it does. But To Mr. Oakley's point. Um until recently we had three cars and to get in and out of our driveway we had to park, you know, either
on the street or in the yard and deep restricted communities, somebody will come along and you'll get a letter and you should shouldn't do that to So to Mrs. Starkey's point, you know, it's the same thing. Collier is going to be widened. Now I understand there's been a virus and things have been pushed back. It's understandable it's closing problems everywhere. And then last but not least, you know, once again to Commissioner Moore's statement about a teenager driving, he's
probably got the same issues with cars. So, yeah. Um that's all I have to say. The the traffic coming south on 41 is a disaster, more often than not. Three cut-through points, air and cutoff, where the tunnels to tower project is going. Hale Road, which is you know, what we're talking about is a dangerous road we know. Uh and then Bell Lake. Uh that traffic is all gonna converge on Collier Parkway and I see it eventually. if they do
any construction there, going through Lake Page and going down Parkway to get you know, pass the construction. So you're gonna have people speeding through our neighborhood eventually. It's it's got to happen. So I I just think you're making a mistake if you approve this project because it's uh we need to stop somewhere and have some common sense and plan for the future and that includes infrastructure. Thank you for your time.
Thank you.
Hello, I'm Danny Martinez. I live on [address removed]. I have been sworn in. And I am a retired 30-year fire captain. Because I have something to say about this coming out. I need to enter these uh signed petitions in.
Move file. Second.
All in favor?
Aye.
We start. What I'm going to talk about is six pictures or seven.
My game plan is sort of changed now that we're gonna go ahead and put this out now and On Collier. W what's gonna what's going on in the corner there of Collier and Hale Road? That's gonna go commercial. I'm telling you. What's going to go on with that pound that they're going to put a road right through? to go on the coll uh collier. We're gonna move that pond. Okay.
That exit is really close to that intersection. Okay. That's trouble. Next thing there's one there's showing one exit on the collier Right next to that intersection. Sixty eight plus homes. Again, a retired fire captain. I'm here to tell you that one entrance and exit to the development like that is not good. That is dangerous. Now I'll go to my part. Again, let's keep mind what's gonna happen in that corner because
they're holding that piece out. Telling you. All right. Hale Road is a substandard road, we all know that. The kids are walking to the buses. There is no infrastructure and as y'all know the fire station in the corner is not a fire station. It is a supply division for Pasco County Fire. So there is not a fire station there. Closest fire station is up on 56 or 54. Long ways. So don't don't think that fire station is open,
it is closed. I measured the rows. The road is eight foot wide. My long trailer is a little over eight feet. Those school buses are right there. And if you'll see these school buses are Straddling that Double line coming down the road.
We got 30 to 40 at least traveled school buses a day on that road. At least. Dropping kids off. We've got three places to drop off, pick up for school kids. Look at this young lady. Look at that. Would you want your kid to walk with that? 'Cause there it is. And that's in the daytime. She got out of school. Imagine that girl walking at six thirty in the morning at night. But that pope. Look, there they
are. They're at night, getting on the bus, crossing the street Getting on the bus. All those cars behind it. I know now we're going to move this thing now to Collier, but I'm here to tell you. Unloading of all these houses, these people on that collier, so close to that intersection. And folks, I am gonna predict that that corner is going commercial. And there will be a 7-Eleven. Gas station. something that's gonna be right next to that exit. That
exit of that subdivision.
How are we gonna do that? So close to the intersection, we're gonna have people turning left and right. On the on on the car. I thank you.
Okay, yeah, call five morning.
So um following we have I think um is it Lars Rutendahl? Gary Rutendah, I think. Okay. Uh Doctor Thomas Colhan. Annalee. Uh I don't have a name, I have email addresses.
I can't hear you.
Michaela McMahon, thank you. I see the name underneath. Um Kendall Jackson Richard Somerville. And Julia, is it Bertunek? All right.
I bel I believe you must be uh Miss Dina. Dina. Dina? Okay, go ahead. I do have one picture control.
Okay.
My name is Dina Maurice. I live at [address removed]. I have been sworn in. Well the picture will be relevant at the end. I'm gonna go way far off of where everybody's gone, so please just be patient and it'll all come together at the end. Traditional models used to study road choices and routes assume that people are well informed and have all the information needed to make decisions about the routes that they choose. The results have been challenged for the ability to capture realistic results due to insights from the field
of psychology. Human choice behavior has been shown to produce imperfect systems. Studies show that human perception, even if not accurate, has a huge impact on the decisions that we make. Valid studies performed within the last one to six years utilize GPS navigation systems to assist in capturing realistic data. Essentially, the end data shows that people prefer to drive where they are most comfortable. In other words, based
on personal perception. A study in 2017 showed that general decisions that rely on personal perception can be influenced by the physical resistance encountered to make those to get to the end results. And that people more often choose the path of least resistance. So why does any of this matter in this case? We can put this all together and we can conclude that because a personal perception is involved when we
drive. We cannot possibly accurately predict. Where people are gonna drive on what road they're gonna choose to drive because it involves personal perception, personal choice. So we can study it in retrospect. Which is what the planners have done. And we can predict what we think people are gonna do when they drive, but we cannot really accurately show where people are gonna drive. So they've done studies, the planners of this development, on
what they think people are going to drive when they put an exit here or an exit there. But they don't know where they're gonna go. The studies that they've relied on, they have not taken into account the developments that have already been approved for drawing up Parkway Boulevard. That traffic has not been included. So the new proposed turn lanes, they're great, but they don't mitigate the fact that the whole hail road has been determined to be suboptimant. Exiting on the Collier doesn't mean that people are gonna stay on there. I
personally get the heck off Collier as quick as I can. And this picture, I purposely drove this way on Sunday. You can see the time at 1:30 in the afternoon. This is Collier and 54. I'm in the right lane. That's the turn lane. You can see how far backed up this is on a Sunday afternoon. I moved into Sable Ridge in 2017. I used to drive on Collier. Get out, turn right-that's the way I went. Now drive Hale Road as my preferred
preference because it is the path of least resistance for me. I get out of my subdivision, which is in Sable Ridge, I turn left on Collier and I go right down Hale Road. I drive the speed limit, but that's my perceived preferred route. because Collier is crazy to drive on. Thank you for your time.
Hello. Thomas Colhane, 4202 East Fowler Avenue. I have been sworn in. Good afternoon. I'm a National Geographic Explorer and Professor at USF Tampa. I have a master's in urban planning from UCLA and Honors BA from Harvard. and I request oh a PhD, sorry, I have a PhD and a master's. Shouldn't forget that. And I request that you recommend denial of this application. I've just returned from presenting world-class development bright spots at the International Urban Health Institute Conference in Spain, where the mayor
and planner stated strongly that we have a clear choice: either we build healthier and more sustainable and safe and resilient communities, or we build more hospitals and jails. This proposal is neither healthy nor safe for passenger. residents nor sustainable. At the Rosebud Ecoscience Center, a jewel for Pasco County, on a weekly basis for six years, I've conducted landscape research, habitat restoration, and wildlife surveys, work on invasive species removal and repatriation of Florida native wildlife. And spending time at the Rosebud School, I can tell you
that the public, our students, our many participating groups and organizations, and our international visitors rely on the existing zoning and rural character of this neighboring property. The petitioners for this unsustainable development plan insist that this region in Pasco was a doughnut hole that must be filled with dense housing, they told me, to prevent sprawl elsewhere. We the people see the area as a vital oasis, part of the National Lillipad Network of Resiliency Hubs, a sanctuary, a last refuge for wildlife, a green space
for families and animals and plants to coexist and improve the quality of life in our region. Now, comprehensive plan objective 1.4 of the future land use element states development should quote ensure the long-term sustainability and viability of res of residential neighborhoods by regulating future development to create compatibility with surrounding land uses, end quote. Today's application is incompatible and conflicts with the country's and the county's MPUD, which is quote, to encourage innovations in residential and non-residential development, and
quote, provide options and incentives designed to protect the rural character of the county, end quote. Here the proposal is a swath of densely built 40 and 50 foot lot homes, less than half the width required in current zoning, covering roughly double the land the current zoning allows. I've worked on innovative urban design projects that meet the Living Building Challenge 4.0, and this proposal doesn't. On the world stage, we know that we can be far more innovative than this embarrassingly outdated proposal. Pasco County's policy for future land use 1.2.23
actually encourages the establishment of incentives for developments that incorporate green building principles into project design and implementation. And as of yet, our conversation with KB Homes on green building techniques have left us empty-handed, and they've told us they don't want or need to talk to the community any further. KB Holmes claims that they're entitled to the full density, and we as we heard from our lawyer Jane, that's just not true. Considering the environmental benefits it features the land and potential for flooding, Runoff from toxins and lawns and cars, the density KB
Homes is striving for cannot be achieved without harming its present surrounding use. Now, please don't understand we want this area to grow, but we want it to grow in the right way, in a healthy way. The Pasco County's strict standards, and we want it to grow like Babcock Ranch that show that Pasco's ahead of the game when it comes to safety and resiliency. So you've got a great reputation for innovations. Please deny that. This unimaginative proposal today and demand that out of town developers meet the county's strict and innovative standards. Thank you very much.
No problem.
Um I'd like to submit my speech into evidence as I have an appendix with references I would like to hand you guys. All in favor? Aye.
We're killing lots of trees today for an environmentally conscious group.
I
normally don't use paper for many people.
I'm Michaela McMahon. I live on [address removed] and I have been sworn in. I'm a master's student at USF in the College of Public Health, as well as a volunteer at Rosebud. We are here today to discuss the proposed rezoning of property at the corner of Hale and Collier. I'm not opposed to development, but I am opposed to unsustainable development in areas that lack proper public health oversight and the promotion of healthy built environments such as improper transportation. infrastructure via walking and biking for pedestrians, notably school-age residents, and access to local jobs. These factors, as
with many others not mentioned, have a profound impact on the quality of life of Pasco residents. To echo the Supreme Court decision granting zoning constitutional legitimacy, zoning is designed to promote the health and safety of the community. To start, the built environment plays a key role in pedestrian safety. However, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Florida consistently ranks among the worst in pedestrian safety. Incontiguous sidewalks, which is what is being proposed for Hale, contributes to such poor ratings. Urban design of the built environment takes many factors
into consideration, such as transportation and safety, and should accommodate to the diverse needs of its residents. Consequently, with Harrowd being characterized as a substandard road, failing to meet standards set by the Pasco County Land Development Code and the Comprehensive Plan, it falls short of successful urban design and meeting the needs of residents, especially school-age residents. The addition of this development will only exacerbate the existing pedestrian safety issues that are attributed to Hale substandard conditions, such as kids waiting in ditches for their school bus
or walking or biking on the road due to there being no sidewalks available. Studies show that a pedestrian crash along a roadway is 1.67 times higher when there is no sidewalks as opposed to when there is one. Will only increase the inequities school age residents already face. Secondly, access to local jobs positively affects the health of residents and of the local economy, thus contributing to a healthy built environment. However, findings from a strategic analysis done by the Tampa Bay Regional Planning
Council found that Pasco County has the longest commute in the Tampa Bay area of 32 minutes. Pasco County has the lowest jobs to employed resident ratio balance in the Tampa Bay area, with 70% of employed residents working outside the county. These statistics pose serious public health repercussions, such as decreasing local air quality and decreasing overall traffic safety for residents commuting long hours in an automobile and for pedestrians. To offset these issues, David Ingall, the economic growth director of Pasco. County iterated, and
quote, we need 150,000 jobs to meet a one-to-one ratio, dot dot dot, that is a substantial amount of jobs and well over our pipeline, end quote, and his presentation of the strategic analysis. Overall, a shift in focus from needing more housing to needing more local jobs is pertinent. In conclusion, I ask that the rezoning of property does not receive approval and that a focus on increasing healthy built environments through mitigation of transportation infrastructure and increasing access to local jobs takes precedence. Thank
you. Next.
Uh Richard Somerville, uh [address removed], I have been sworn, [address removed]. In 2014, Naomi Klein's book, This Changes Everything, Capitalism versus the Climate, was published. In Chapter five she describes what some political scientists call extractivism. She defines extractivism as quote and non reciprocal, dominance based relationship with the earth, one purely of taking, It is the opposite of
stewardship, which involves taking, but also taking care that regeneration and future life continue, unquote. At first I thought of extractivism as only removing resources from inside the earth. as she described. But then I realize that extractivism can also describe what is happening in many places here in Pasco County, that is, the extraction from existence more or less permanently of vast swaths of forest or agricultural land with little concern for the life that is being destroyed. A case
in point is the Hale Collier proposal. One troubling aspect of this proposal is the number of constructed ponds around existing wetlands south of Hale Road. These constructed ponds are shown to encroach on the twenty five foot. Wetland buffer in some cases. Building a pond next to wetlands will tend to dewater the wetlands during dry periods. This will probably stress and kill some of the wetland plants and make the wetlands dysfunctional. Constructed ponds will probably not serve as
a replacement for the wetlands, thus there will be a net loss of wetland function from this project. The other troubling aspect is a ten is ten foot between houses. I think that I don't know if that's changed yet. Changed from the planning commission meeting. Wouldn't it be better to save this ten foot by building townhouses? which our house is sharing walls. Another possibility is building condos. These alternatives would allow the same number of dwelling
units in the smaller area, thus allowing some land to remain natural. This would allow the wetland buffers to be enlarged and remain intact. Would a common wall with your neighbor save in energy costs? I visited several websites and it seems in most circumstances townhouses use less energy than detached houses, thus helping with climate change. I have a closing quote. quote, there will be no end to the troubles to
the troubles of states, or of humanity itself, till philosophers become kings in this world. or till those who we now call kings and rulers really and truly become philosophers. The political power and philosophy. Daska And political power and philosophy thus come into the same hands. Plato. Please deny the zoning changes. Please get advice from philosophers.
Okay, um can you call uh four more people
if we have Sure. Um Kendall Jackson was uh missed Um I'm assuming this might be Julia. Oh Kendall. Okay, thank you. Um, Julia Bertinek.
Yes, I've been sworn
just a second, let me get some more. Um Daniel Is it Carrowen? Carow? Carrow? I don't know. Thank you. The signature gets smaller. Um Sonny Bishop, Nelson Herbert, Christina La Rocca.
You may proceed.
Yeah, I have been sworn. My name is Julia Bartunett, [address removed]. And I'm also requesting to submit for public a record of this meeting a previous speaker's documents that did not get to repeat
a file. Second, second. All in favor?
Allow. Aye. Thank you.
This is to urge you to vote no on item P 92, whereas Goal Seven of the Natural Resource Conversate Conservation and Management element of the County Comprehensive Plan provides that the County will be a leader in environmentally sustainable government operations, a proponent of SMART and sustainable growth management practices, and will have a strong Economy supported by sound environmental principles, programs, and practices. The
Sierra Club of Pasco County Conservation Committee urges this committee commission to vote no. The development would have a significant adverse impact on the area, natural ecology, and quality of life. Sierra Club's opposition is united with concerns of Many residents, both within the area and outside of it. Additionally, it's reflective of concerns for the voiceless animals and wildlife living in and near the plant development. The development will
destroy a healthy ecosystem, kill and coils to die countless native plants and animals, including wild turkeys, gopher tortoises whose burrows provide habitat, to 360. 60 species, sandal cranes, opossums, owls, hawks, and other threatened and endangered species. Whereas objective 3.3 of the county strategic plan calls for protecting and improving the quality of our water, air, and other natural resources. Other
negative impacts are worthy of note, and they are not congruent with the county's strategic plan as Follows. These include impacts on water quality and the Cypress Creek well field, impacts on other lakes in the area, impacts on well water, impacts on drainage, impacts on quality of life. Whereas the county is developing a sustainability and resiliency action plan to promote organizational and community-based sustainability and resiliency activities and programs. Programming
in alignment with the county's strategic plan, structure, and operations and services, ecologically sound practices like those that exist at the wonderful Rosebud Continuum Educational Center are to be treasured. Those unique centers next to Pristine Lake that hopefully will be preserved from surrounding developments. Rosebud Continuum Center helps disabled. And intellectually challenge children and adults, along with both public and private schools, to include USF's
Padell College of Sustainability students who learn about and study sustainability practices, healthy ecosystems, and biomes. Again, the Sierra Club Pasco Conservation Committee is strongly opposed to item P92 and urges you to vote. Your community's conscience on this item vote no. This proposed development is not just not in the right place at the right time, it is in the wrong place for all time. Thank you. Thank you for
listening. Yes. May I please have this submitted for Record?
Oh well you did already.
No, she submits
someone else. Notion received the phone.
Second. All in favor? Aye.
Aye.
Hello. Hello. I'm gonna read. I'm a field scientist, so public speaking is not my thing.
We need your name and address and if you
can sworn. Uh my name is Kendall Jackson. I've been sworn in. I live at [address removed], a few hundred feet from the intersection of Hale and Collier. Uh just the name of a woman. Uh no affiliation unfortunately. I'm uh registered
I'm sorry, could you speak into the mic closer? Thank you.
I'm a registered professional archaeologist. I work for uh which means I have a master's in archaeology and have conducted uh different types of archaeological work. I work at USF and also for a number of regional cultural resources uh consulting firms. I'm also a lifelong resident of Land O' Lakes, the community encompassing the Hale Collier project area. As a scientist, a cultural resources professional, and a community member, I'm obligated to speak and act in
opposition to the proposed rezoning. As you are aware, Chapter 800 of the PASCO LDC, as well as Chapter 267 of the Florida statutes, require that the County dutifully consider and work to prevent or mitigate impacts to the archaeological, historical, and cultural resources by any MPUD activities. Because Pasco has no cultural resources office, the heritage of our county is too often written off and destroyed after biv being given short shrift by uh profit
driven consultants. Uh I could speak to that first hand. As has been found by several compliance archaeologists working in the area, this project area exhibits a high probability for ancient and historic indigenous settlements and cemeteries. Recorded and unrecorded native sites have been found along the perimeter of the project area during previous work. Native American cemeteries are particularly likely along the margins of the Lake Cypress wetlands, which are destined, as was just said, for
stormwater pond dredging. The project area is located a short distance south of the late nineteenth to early twentieth century mill town of Aron, which was run by upwards of a thousand black forestry workers, many of whom established homesteads south of the mill works in the direction of the project area. Late 19th century patents show homesteaders on the project area, who typically developed family cemeteries that infamously evade hasty and poorly designed
archaeological surveys. Which have become all too common. State survey guidelines deferred to by the LDC require testing at 20-meter intervals throughout high probability areas, as well as a dutiful search for ancient and historic cemeteries. An adequate survey must also identify and consider the significance of historical roadways such as Hill Road, as well as rural historic landscapes such as the corridor of ag residential parcels along Hill Road. Can this board certify that it has dutifully
considered potential impacts to the cultural heritage of our county? Where is the survey? Was it adequate? What is the plan for detecting and dealing with ancient and historical cemeteries? Local histories indicate that at least two small historic period cemeteries are likely on the property. The disturbance of unmarked cemeteries by any MPUD activity will constitute a felony under Chapter eight seventy two of the Florida statutes. K B. Holmes and their consultants should consider themselves dutifully notified.
Thank you all. And my email's there. Um I can be reached there if you have questions.
Uh if you don't mind, sir not you. The next uh we're gonna call it the gentleman with the cane so he does not just keep standing. Of course. Okay, thank you.
We thank you for that. Oh you're welcome. I really need the exercise.
Thanks.
It's a tough subject. You know driving is so easy.
So easy.
Nelson Herbert [address removed]. I've been sworn in. Several places.
And and we are taxpayers and voters. That's kind of important too. At any rate uh Driving is so easy nowadays. But I'm I'm perplexed as to how much Academics we have to draw upon. such a vast amount of power points. an in depth experience And I turn off a collar on the Hale Road and the first thing I see is a thirty mile an hour speed limit, and right behind
that is a five mile an hour curve sign.
Let's get to the bottom line here. We lost 50,000 teenagers in 10 years. And you folks want to train your kids? Call me, please. My number's on here. I can help you.
I spent almost twenty years teaching the DuPont Corporation. in various corporations.
From Quebec. to San Diego in their cars. marketing, tech and service reps. These were experienced drivers. At that point the Fortune 500 companies have Big labels. Risk cooperation, risk mitigation. reducing the corporate collision rate. And here we are trying to get things straightened out for the safety of our community. We saw a fifty percent reduction in our corporate collision rate. They needed it. They
knew where to put their money.
So, um I have a background, spent several years, twelve years locally here with Continental Can Company, as a safety chairman there for the Steel Workers Union. 900 workers, 38 forklifts. Sex sec uh safety section leader in the North Hillsborough Volunteer Fire Department. Our biggest territory was USF. We were busy day and night, twenty four seven.
Safety officer in the eleventh to thirteenth Special Forces Group. Locally, jumping in around here. Locally, we run down and jump in the Panama Canal Zone at nighttime, loaded for bear. Much safer than driving down my street in front of my house. I dare anyone. Who has an extra evening? if your insurance is paid up, to drive down my street at night, And try to keep your car centered. The lines are not are missing. There's no yellow line. Uh to be frank with you, when cars
are coming at me with a glare, headlight glare, I'm happy to see the reflectors on the mailboxes. I'm talking about the bottom line here tonight. Bottom line.
And it gets worse.
You saw that picture up there of that car with a bicyclist right near?
I had a son on Laverson Road like that. He was sixteen. Uh He was hit by a drunken driver. thrown 170 feet down the road.
Just the bottom line. If you have kids with bicycles, chain 'em up.
Thank you very much, sir.
Okay,
I have some pictures here. Motions
are
75. Second.
All in favor? Aye. Alright, I'm gonna call a couple more names. Russell Rotris.
Sonny Bishop. Christina Lavroca. Jenny is it flat?
I'm just saying
we've got
Yeah. Commissioner Yeah.
He's trying to res he's file trying to file something.
I'll take a motion.
Motion receive the file. Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. It's like twenty trees today.
My name is Daniel Carroll, reside at [address removed], directly adjacent to the subject property to the on the south perimeter. I've also provided a a signed uh opposition by five other homeowners on that same street that directly are adjacent. I have been swarm.
Where are the signs? Where are the for sale signs that have been on the subject property for many, many months? Perhaps the question in planning uh the planning meeting about the retail and commercial aspirations that corner lot at Hale and Collier caused a stir. The zoning and planning request before you is for approximately forty-six point one acres. I've read, provided for you, and put in the record literature about this property. Quote, prime ten acre corner commercial rezoned land. Another title, ten acre retail thirty-eight. acre residential development land and 47.6 acres commercial. So what's correct? This
clearly shows the actual marketing of this property and the intended use is something far different what this plan and zoning change request before you depicts. This corner lot, depending on what's true, accounts for between two and twenty-five percent of the entire parcel they're proposing on developing. It'll likely impact or even prevent the new entrance off Collier and the retention pine relocation. In planning, Katie Holmes, John, I believe, was specifically asked about this corner parcel and stated under oath he did not know. Does anyone actually believe you have no idea the actual plan for that corner lot pulled out when when it would said to be so
have such a profound impact on your overall multi-million dollar project? Of course they know. They don't want anybody in this room to know or adversely impact to know. Is KB Holmes planning on pushing the zoning change and dumping the property on another developer like they I stated that that was done in another it I believe it might could have been a different county, but nonetheless? KB Holmes has made repeated Misleading statements about the ratio of the adjacent and budding homes on Sable Ridge, stating different on a difference of only three when in fact it was over four times that. KB Homes has also made repeating and misleading statements about the homes per acre
density by including unbuildable water and sensitive land acreage. If you exclude that, the ratio is not 2.4, it's closer to 3.2 homes per acre. If the commercial and retail desired corner loss excluded, the ratio of high density homes jumps to 4.5 homes per acre, on some with apparently 85% building coverage per lot. This is absolutely unacceptable. I've previously presented and included in my correspondence uh a graphical representation overlay so you can actually see the gross impact of the high density subdivision on that limited parcel to the adjacent
properties. In fairness, there has been some changes made to this, but 50 foot wide lots doesn't change the ratio that much. This directly violates one of the paramount requirements of the MPUD, the compatibility loose of use, uh quotes shall shall be planned as be compatible with neighboring areas. In addition to LDC 402, 1E, 12, and 5, the Post Planning Commission meet uh PDD analysis that was made that I recently looked at is absolutely laughable with loose references, few sites, and having a dismissive tone of
your own expert appointees in planning. and the citizens' concerns that was substantiated in that meeting and subsequent denial. No buffer will create harmony or compatibility with adjacent properties with such disparaging lot sizes, forty and fifty foot wide lots, home sizes some two story with ten foot rear setbacks, destroying privacy, adjacent property values, and exacerbating home and lot and roadway flooding concerns. KB Holmes and the realtors think they've got the vote in the bag, expecting it'll sail right through. It's time to prove that again you have the best interest of the county and its citizens in mind. Time to further reinforce
and make even more clear the subject matter experts that you have in the planning board, and their recommendation should have been a unanimous no. It's the wrong plan, wrong place, wrong conditions, too many questions, inconsistencies, misrepresentations, and misleading statements have occurred. This request to approve the planning zoning change must after.
Thank you. Okay, why don't we have a line? I don't know.
Not in
line, you cannot speak. Sonny Bishop, Christina Lavroca, Jenny Flart, um I'm sorry, I missed one, Russell Watris.
I'm Russell Wattrus, [address removed], depends for in.
Okay, one second. Where are those if if you're not in line, we'll go on to someone else.
No, he can't. He's excused. His next.
His
next.
So I have um Sonny Bishop, Christina Leroca, Jenny Fla
Oh Jerry. Oh Jerry. Where's Jerry? Jerry Fled. Jerry fled. Why?
Jerry Flat.
Where's Jerry Flat?
The man talking who knows his name. Okay. He
he can get up real quick. Sorry.
Because Because it's a long day.
Okay.
Okay. Mr. Wattress.
This I am Russell Wattrus, [address removed]. I've been sworn in
You've seen this, okay? That's the s school bus. This is the one that was explained earlier. Uh it it's on Hale Road and that having a school bus cross the road and uh garbage truck across the road. It's not a good thing. And Hale Road is not a safe road. I've driven hail roads now for 28 years back and forth to work. And if you're looking for an expert on the traffic situation on
Hale Road, I'm it. Okay. I've seen it change from a a peaceful country road to a Uh something that's really unsafe, a hazard. Uh in fact this past Sunday afternoon uh I was passed on Hill Road by two cars that were racing. I believe they were young people. And I estimate they were going about sixty miles an hour when they passed me on the straightaway
between uh Alpine and uh the Rosebud curve there. Fortunately, uh no one was coming around the curve at the time or they would have been ahead on collision.
That was just one instance. Um A school bus school bus traffic is very heavy on Hale, and it isn't unusual to see three school buses lined up one behind the other coming down Hale Road. Okay. About two weeks ago we nearly had a school bus collision when a bus was making a left-hand turn off of Hale onto Collier Parkway and a a a
line of cars was making a left-hand turn off of Collier going north onto Hale Road. Uh fortunately the brakes on the cars were very good and uh they there was no collision, but there was a lot of horn blowing and and uh people in the cars shouting. Uh uh which saved the school bus. Putting in nearly a hundred and nine more houses on that corner isn't
gonna improve the safety one little bit. In fact that's a very congested uh intersection two days two times a week. I think the uh approval of this development will set a precedent for cramming houses on 40 foot lots without proper infrastructure. Approval would also set the precedents for four other properties on Hill Road, which will probably be before you soon. They are going to be requesting
approval.
If you grant this these rights to KB Homes to build this this subdivision, how are you gonna deny these other four people, their, these landowners, their rights? Thank you.
Thank
you
very much.
I've called uh Sonny Bishop a couple of times as well.
That's okay.
I didn't want to skip you.
Yeah. Excuse me if I ramble on the Not too good at public speaking, but I'd like to uh my wife Marianne and myself have lived on this property for I think.
Start with your name and address and whether or not you've been sworn.
My name is Sonny Bishop. I live at [address removed], directly across from this property that we're talking about, and they also have a track on the south side. And uh thank you. Okay. it's getting a little late for me. Uh my concern and it should be for a lot of people is not only the traffic, but there used to be kids and my grandkids or some of them used to ride their bike on the road. There's no way they
could have ride their bike on the road today. So I'm concerned also about the flooding. Uh luckily we're on the high end of it, but I don't know what happened south of this. And I if they have the problem. You take away the natural drainage of 46 acres, you're really going to compound the problem. But uh my main concern is the traffic. I just uh worry about the the kids that come to our place as we we have a p a kind of a haven for kids
and uh with our Rosebud continuum and I it's just the wrong project, like they said, at the wrong time and it's w too many people in a congested area, too many cars and I'm not against development. I used to be in development, so I I'm not against that. I'm g I I th think every development should fit into the surrounding area and and complement it and not uh this would bring a Just
a bad situation to an already worsening situation. And that's about all I had to say is I'm concerned more about this the drainage that that natural will take away the development of it on a high density situation, which is all pavements and rooftops, it's doesn't make much sense. I don't know what their what their plans are. I haven't seen their plans of how they're gonna get rid of the water. And uh that's the only problems I have with the traffic,
so
I think my wife will let me sit down now.
Most of your steel
All in favor? Aye.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Mm-hmm.
Thank you.
Mr. Flatt? Jerry Flatt. Jerry Flatt. Sorry
about that. I I can't read my own writing sometimes. So my name is Jerry Flatt and I live at [address removed]. I have been a resident of uh Pasco County for 42 years. I moved my business here from Hillsborough County. I have been sworn, I'm sorry. Uh I moved my business here from uh Hillsborough County. uh years ago, matter of fact about 2001,
since have established another business, two businesses here in Pasco County. I love Pasco County. I've enjoyed living here. I got away from Hillsborough County because uh the mess with traffic and all the uh the non controlled growth that was being done. There. And I felt like Pasco was a place that I could locate not just my business, but live and not
have the same issue that I had in Hillsborough County. Uh I purchased fourteen acres on Hale Road from Miss Franzel. She was the original owner, owned it in 1946 with her husband. Her granddaughter is the one that's uh doing the the the deal with K B Homes to sell the property. I tried to buy it all from her, even the portion that they're gonna develop. But she had had some bad dealings
with some real estate people, so And she was old school and she didn't she didn't want to do that that deal. So anyway, I bought that property because it was in a rural area. I went to the county and talked to them about projections for. Anything that was going to be done to that road? because I was looking for the quietness and and the open space They assured me, the people that I spoke to in the zoning department that there were no funds available, nor
were there any plans in the future for the widening or doing anything with Hale Road. They referred to it as being substandard, they referred to it as being inadequate. And so that suited me just fine because I was looking looking for the peacefulness of it. Now We find that th there's another project that is going in. and I have grave concerns uh as you've heard from all the people that have spoken about
the safety and uh other issues regarding that. If this is approved. the real estate agent will make their commission.
The lady that owns it now, the granddaughter of Miss Ronzel, will get a lot of money. And she'll build a house somewhere else. KB Holmes will build those houses. Finish out that project. And they'll be going on to something else. The county, yes, would get taxes based on the number of houses put in there. But I I request that you think about all these people that are here. that live in that neighborhood and that have
expressed their concerns and that you not accept this project to go forward. Thank you very much.
All right. Cristina La Rocca. She gone? Thank you. Um Elizabeth Matthews. Margarita Hardy?
Okay. Peyton Ho. Hoy? Okay.
Keep going.
I'm I'm uh pronouncing this one in my head. Ali Abdel Quater? Quator? Catter, almost.
All right. Go ahead and proceed.
Hello. My name is Elizabeth Matthews. I live at [address removed], and I have been sworn in. My currently, my children currently and have previously attended Landed Lakes High School, Pine View Middle School, and Pine View Elementary. So I'd like to address the student-to-teacher ratios that'll be impacted by the proposed plan as it stands now. Uh pursuant to Florida statute 1003.03, section one, uh subsections A through C, the class size maximums. In
grades pre-K through third, the class size maximum ratios are 18 to 1. Pineview Elementary School is currently at 14 to 1. Grades 4 through 8 maximum is 22 to 1. Pineview Middle School is currently at 17 to 1. And the uh closest, dangerously close, is uh the ninth to twelfth grade level, uh which is a maximum of twenty-five to one. Land O' Lakes High School is at twenty-two to one, which is higher than the Florida State level of sixteen to one. Uh
the nearest high school to Land Lakes High School is Sun Lake, which is approximately three miles away. Uh they're also at a 22 to 1 ratio. So Where will these children go when you're looking at homes of three to four bedrooms apiece? Thank you.
Честно меня называют команду шли.
You go ahead and proceed. Thank you.
Hi, my name is Marguerite Harvey. I live at [address removed] and I have been sworn in. Um I've been a resident of Land O' Lakes 1966. My family moved here from Hillsborough County when I was in first grade. I graduated from Land O' Lakes. Was one of the first graduates graduating classes there. I married my high school sweetheart. We've been married almost 43 years. We've raised six children in Land O' Lakes and we have 13 grandchildren, seven
of which live in Land O' Lakes. four of those um access hill road. Uh the bishops and I share four of my grandchildren and they live approximately um a mile from that property. They ride bikes or they have ridden bikes and have walked to call your inhale road. Um it's becoming increasingly and increasingly more dangerous as you've heard. So I will not Belabor that point. Um So what I will say is
I drive um my granddaughter and a cousin home because they are in that uh now requirement where they have to have their own transportation from school, they go to Pine View Middle School. Um I'm fortunate to do that. Many kids are not and when I'm driving my um cousin's daughter Callie Home, who lives at Branch Ranch. We see children riding bikes with big heavy backpacks, wobbling, um, driving on
the side of the road. And one time there was a young man with a backpack. Paddling down the road and he could hear the line of buses coming behind him. And he got nervous and next thing you know he's sliding down into one of those deep ditches. If you've seen the pictures you saw that. And it was quite alarming to see because I thought that we were gonna witness the first accident and or death of a child on that road. I know that's not your doing, but you need this information. So I strongly suggest that you
disapprove um what KB Holmes is suggesting like many of my other um friends on the coalition. One of the things that I did want to mention is this gentleman here mentioned some of the deceitfulness um reporting that he felt was deceitful from K B Holmes from the last um planning commission meeting. They didn't know what the ten acres was, this, that and the other. They've changed things and and whatnot. And that seems to be a general
theme with KB Homes. There's been a couple of class action suits filed against them in the state of Florida. the attorney general in twenty eighteen there's a seventy Seventy seven million dollar lawsuit against KB Holmes to pay out to people who um have been misrepresented by KB homes and have had shoddy homes. Built by KB Homes and I just would like you to take that into consideration when you're making this
decision. That's not the kind of neighbor that we want. They're not a good neighbor. They're rated 1.5 on the Better Business Bureau. And I just hope that you listen to the community. Thank you.
Okay, um if there so we have two more speakers left. If there's anyone else who wants to speak that is didn't sign up, it this is your opportunity to get in line. If you are not in line, then um we're gonna close public comment. Okay.
Hello, my name is Peyton Howey. I live at [address removed]. I was sworn in and I'm a member of the Tampa Tennants Union and a graduate student at the Patel College of Global Sustainability. I am here to ask that you make the right decision, to protect the ecosystems and wildlife that this county prides itself in, and to stand with the interests of the people of Pasco over, frankly, profit-hungry developers. It's clear that we are in a housing crisis. Florida continues to lead the nation in percentage
of rent hikes yearly, but the answer is not to just build more congested homes. The creation of these cookie-cutter, high-volume homes fail to solve the housing crisis and come with a larger cost, irreparable damage to our wildlife and natural systems. After conducting weeks of hurricane relief efforts in Northport and Fort Myers with other grassroots activists and myself, one thing is glaringly clear. Developing in vulnerable wetlands destroys the natural barriers that we have to protect our homes, schools, local businesses,
and livelihoods from natural disasters. Pasco County is no different, with flooding already a main issue for residents after your average rainy day. I've seen firsthand the devastation that these climate disasters have had on communities and the impacts of inland flooding flooding and storm surge left with nowhere to go because those natural barriers have been continuously exploited with only profit in mind. Families left displaced without homes, walls filled with mould and decay, properties unrecognizable,
and widespread despair are the results of just a few feet of flooding. As the climate crisis intensifies, it is only a matter of time before we are directly hit by a hurricane as well. I know everyone in this room fears that. As county commissioners, your job entails preparing for these events and mitigating the damage. Why not stop it before it starts? As you've heard from the students, faculty of PCGS and the passionate residents of Pasco County here today,
Rosebud Continuum is a sanctuary that borders this property. It serves as a sustainable educational and community building tool that I have had the pleasure to be a part of. And yet is it is under attack. A world where this property is rezoned is a world where places like Rosebud face great danger. Flooding, runoff, and increased traffic will continue to destroy existing properties and the wildlife that surrounds them. And for what? To maximize the profits of KB homes at the expense of the environment and the people of Pasco? I
want you to take a look at the room today. Look at the amount of green shirts in the crowd that showed up despite the distance, and it being in the middle of the work day. I'll let you on in on a little secret. No one on our side is being paid. The people of Pasco County, who you have been elected to represent, are speaking today, but will you listen to them? Will you side with the residents, the wildlife of Pasco County and your constituents and vote no on this rezoning, or will you stand in the way of democracy to protect out of state
developers and their corporate interests? Thank you.
Thank you. So you know.
Hello. Uh I've been Swornon. I live at [address removed]. My name is Ali Abdul Qadr. I am also a member of the Tampa Tennis Union. Uh am I good to start here? Yes.
Have you been sworn in?
Yes. Yes.
Okay.
Okay, sorry. I just saw that the time hadn't started, but more extra time for me. Um So uh first off I just wanna you know thank all the people in this room who came out here today. It's really amazing to see so many members of the community make time out of their day and sacrifice time out of their day to come here and it proves just how important uh this zoning decision is to them and what an impact it would have on the community. You know, seeing members of the community and leaders of the community out here, it it It's very inspiring.
Um and you know the call is for this area to not be developed in a way that isn't sustainable. And In my honest opinion, I don't think KB Holmes is interested in sustainable development in this area. If they were, they wouldn't be trying to change the zoning like this. And it's understandable why uh why you would want to develop this county, right? I mean, there is an incentive for you to do it. There's an incentive for you to grow this county, but not like this, not in a
way that would, you know, threaten the wetlands of This county and really jeopardize the gem that you have here with Rosebud Continuing Center right next door. I really think you should consider instead of zoning this property in a way that would make it very congested and uh sort of ruin and exploit the wetlands that exist currently there. Work with Rosebud. Work with trying to get you know a grant from the state, from from the federal government for sustainable uh development
and to show off what this county can really do, to show off what we can do to preserve our wetlands while developing, you know, in a way that is sustainable. So One of the reasons that this came to me is I was speaking with someone just outside here, uh, you know, local employee here in Pasco County in Dade City, and they were telling me how they had just come back to Dade City, you know, they were born here, uh, and they came back to live here after 11 years, and they were just shocked at the amount of you
know areas that are now sub-developments that used to be just swamp, right? And we have to understand understand and we have to recognize the effect this is gonna have on our future generations if we don't take a good hard look at what we're doing here and Really grapple with the realities of the climate crisis. And again, I'm not saying all the burden should be on this county to shoulder that. But I think this county really has an opportunity to lead the way in in terms of showing off what sustainable growth can really look like and really
shifting towards that. And I to that end, I really urge you not to rezone this property, not to you know bow down to the These out of state developers who do not have the best interests of this county in mind. They only thing they have uh in their interest is their profit, their bottom line. Meanwhile, the community has come out here and they've made themselves very clear and I hope you stand on the side of the people. Thank you very much.
Okay, next. And the gentleman in the green shirt will be our last speaker.
My name is Mary McKnight, [address removed], and I have been sworn. uh in an effort not to be redundant I keep scratching my speech and so it's it's a big mess. So it may not be very coherent. But um There are a lot of things to consider with this project. Flooding, sustainability, uh wetland protection. The forty foot lot compatibility and safety. I want to talk
about the issue of safety. Um Uh Because I think this project should be rejected. or at least deferred. Until the entire length of Hill Road is brought up to county road standards. In the Pasco County Engineering Services Design. Division report. of two thousand four, it calls Hale Road an extremely narrow Roadway with substandard geometric curvature, without
shoulders or adequate drainage, all of which is compounded with the existent school bus bus traffic, and that was 18 years ago. And you've heard all the people talking tonight and they have confirmed. I don't think there's any doubt about hail the status of Hale Road. as a um substandard road.
So With all you have to consider tonight. The the land development code lists A couple of factors to for you to consider when evaluating an input. And maybe these will help you. Decide. One of them is whether the proposed change will create or excessively increase traffic congestion or otherwise affect traffic safety. And the other is whether the proposed
change will adversely affect living conditions in the immediate and surrounding neighborhoods. And I think um any number of additional auto uh trips would would do both of those. Um for the sake of safety alone, I do think this project should be shelved until Hill Road is brought up to county standards. Thank you. Thank you.
All right, two more speakers.
And then we have one person online. I think we used to have two, but I think we lost one.
No, um
they're back. One was in person and the other one didn't log in. Okay.
I'm Nathan Lafada. I live at [address removed] and I swore in Section 402.1E of the land development cone lists a number of factors to consider when evaluating the MPUD application to applic applicable here. What quote, whether whether the proposed change will create a or excessively increase traffic con congestion or otherwise affect traffic safety, quote, and whether Uh quote, whether the proposed
change will adversely affect living conditions in the immediate surrounding neighborhoods, quote, this project runs afoul of both criteria. The developer's second traffic study acknowledges that the project will add more than a thousand trips per day and concedes that if this project is approved, Hale Road will operate at level of service D. How is it how is the National Academy of Science Highway Capacity Manual describes LOS D passing capacity approaches zero. Quote Motorists
are delayed Platoons for nearly eight percent of their travel time quote Turning vehicles and roadside distinctions cause major shockwaves in the traffic stream, and the driver experiences reduce physical and psychological comfort levels. And that is on a road that meets minimum standards, which Hill Road doesn't. Hellroad is a substandard road. For the most of the stretch of Collier to 41, the lanes are narrower than than required by the 901.4 of the L D C In addition, large
set stretches of Hill Road ha have drainage ditches of power holes or large trees and bushes where the shoulders are supposed to be. So if there's an oncoming car in your lane, there's no nowhere to go and get out of the way. And if there's an accident, there's no place to pull off. And then traffic is heavy. Emergency vehicles can't get through quickly. And I've worked down the road and the man passed away because an ambulance couldn't get there on time. Yeah. And that's just down on Collier actually. So a substandard road is going to be very congested, traffic delays are going to
be the norm, drivers are going to become aggravated, upset, and the road won't be able to handle accidents. Such a conditions clearly will adversely affect living conditions and the immediately surrounding the neighborhoods. The people who have this have to use hail road and collier every day will be subject to unjustified and undeserved stresses. as well as unnecess unnecessary additional danger. The Comp Plan F L U one point one E states that the adequacy of the ro roadways should be considered when determining
the timing of new development. Hell Road is a substandard road it can safely handle another thousand cars per day. This project should be rejected or at least deferred until the entire length of Hell Road is brought up to County Road standards. Thank you for your time.
Thank you. I uh and I see Nan Nancy was out when I said no more speakers, so she she's the last speaker. Okay.
Hello. Uh my name is Chris Osborne. I live at [address removed] and I've been sworn in. I thank you for the opportunity to speak to you this afternoon. Uh thank you all for your time and your careful consideration of all these issues that have brought to you have been brought to you today. I wanted to commend these statements brought to you by my neighbors and fellow Pasco County citizens and also address my concerns. uh about this project on Hill and Collier, which are primarily safety related, again. I
have four children. All are under 14 years of age, and my oldest child has a visual disability. She's legally blind from a genetic retinal condition that's progressive. Our driveway enters directly onto Hill Road, and there are no existing accommodations for her along this road. She's 13 years old, and I would hope that the primary Function of planning commissions such as these would consider people and children just like her. I
can't understand why projects are being considered to put so many additional houses directly off this road. I would think that before approving projects to add so many homes like this one, there would first be projects to address safety concerns such as these for Pasco County residents. Extremely narrow, has no shoulder along the road, and I don't feel comfortable asking my children to even retrieve our mail because of the narrowness of the road. I enjoy riding my bike in the Cypress Creek Preserve Trail, which is only
1.7 miles from our house. However, to get there I must ride my bike east down Hill Road. And listening to the proceedings in the planning meeting, I heard that to do that I am, end quote, not in my right mind and also stupid.
I wish there was a safe way to ride there with my children, but I constantly see and directly experience cars traveling in each direction. Going fully into the oncoming traffic lanes in order to pass me on my bicycle. I see the same thing with children who are walking to school, which I assume is Pineview Elementary, where my daughter used to attend that's less than one and a half miles away, which is also within the two-mile radius that can no longer get bus rides due to the Pasco County driver shortage. I hope you'll give serious thought and consideration to these
safety concerns on Hale Road and not go forward with this rezoning project. Thank you.
Thank
you.
Nancy Hazewood, [address removed]. Good evening, commissioners and madam chairman. Mariano
Hashmann. And
you've
been sworn, Ms. Hazelwood.
Yes, and yeah, sworn and sworn again. I am speaking as a citizen who has participated in Pasco County's government since about 2006. And uh this kind of out of my way, but this happens to be one of those little Pasco County gyms you have. Someone has already spoken about FLU one point one oh one, the compatibility review. And I wanna say that the applicant
is not always entitled to the highest densities. So uh
uh that they are asking for it. That's that's really not up to them. That's up to y'all. And I'm hoping you will Not consider their densities, please. I cement that you should reject the project because it's really incompatible, as you've heard many people say. Right now, the pr all the properties fronting Hill Road are single-family lots, many of them several acres, none less than one-fourth acre. From the map of the property appraisers website, it appears
that eight develop there are eight approved developments that have access to Hale Hill Road. The largest is Lago Del Rey. It has 40 Lots at least one fourth acre. The second is Bell Lake Vista 2 has 35 lots, none less than one-third acre. Bell Lake Vista 1 has 21 lots with an average size of three-tenths of an acre. Alsacks has 20 lots, all at
least 1/4th acre.
all over one half an acre or more. All the other three developments all have fewer than ten lots, which average four tenths of an acre. Thus a improved developmental pattern along Hill Road has already been established. Developments of forty lots are less than the lot size are of one fourth an acre. The project seeks one hundred and nine lots, over two and a half times as many as the largest approved development,
and more than five times greater than the average approved development. So I suggest that it doesn't fit. If you can make the density less and the lot size increase over f over the 40 and 50 lot size, um you'll have your area for your cars. The sustainability of this area. is important. please deny or cut significantly
the density. for this project. Thank you all. Thank you.
Okay, um rebuttal from the
applicant.
I think now I can safely say good evening again, Sundi Terrapani, for the applicant. A couple of quick comments, and then if you have any questions for me, happy to answer. First of all, our application package had a detailed analysis of consistency with the comp plan. Also contained an archaeological study showing no historic cemeteries, an environmental study showing no listed species on the site. The site has been cleared, it's been used for grazing, for citrus, so none of the endangered species are on this site. wanna just wanna make sure all that data is
included in your an analysis and evaluation. This is not a pristine environmental preserve. This site has been cleared, as I just said. We are not impacting any wetlands. Let me emphasize that. We are not impacting any class one wetlands. We do have one extremely small class three wetland impact because of the new driveway on Collier Parkway that was requested by the Planning Commission. The neighbors all objected to the Hale Road, so we've now moved it to Collier Parkway. and that's the only place we have a wetland impact.
The developer will be required, as you all know very well, to meet all the design standards of the county and the Swift MUD and any other agencies that might be involved. So any concerns about stormwater or flooding or engineering design for driveways, all of those will be resolved during the technical review process. We heard a lot of problems today that are existing problems. And while I appreciate those problems, I have four grandchildren myself, two of them are in school now. I appreciate that they have a very serious problem about kids standing on that road
now that time has changed, with little side few sidewalks and standing there in the dark. But quite frankly, that's not the a project and an issue that's been created by the developer. It is an existing problem that needs to be worked out with the school board.
We have revised our plan to have such a minimal impact, the lowest impact we can on Hail Road, to only 22 homes will use Hail Road as our primary access. All the rest of the project, the other eighty-something lots, eighty seven at the most, would access through Collier Parkway.
The residents that spoke today there were very few residents that spoke that spoke that are immediately adjacent to the site that would be impacted directly. Those residents were Mr. and Mrs. Bishop two residents in Sable Ridge and the Martinez family that lives to the west side. And we've talked about the improvements, enhancements that we did to on all of those edges to try and mitigate our impact there. And the last thing I want to say is As you all know, you you have the unfortunate job of trying to balance property rights, and we're asking you to balance
the rights of of this developer and these property owners to build a really small project with a maximum of 109 units and balance that against the rights of these residents to continue enjoying their life and their community and we believe that there is a good balance with this project. Thank you. Thank you.
And again, for the record, Michael Razor, the full access connection to County Line Road, or Collier Parkway, rather, was reviewed with County Transportation staff, including Margaret Smith, the County Attorney, and was found to be approvable as the connection and associated turnlanes were found to provide for safe and efficient traffic operating conditions and would not adversely impact adjacent intersections. I have other rebuttal items, but I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.
Yeah, I have some questions for you. Do any of you have any questions for him? Okay, so um there was stated someone stated it that um that the uh other engineer that was hired says that that Intersection. The plans in the intersection won't work. I'm kind of summarizing that. Did you hear him s them say that?
I what I and I do actually actually have a paragraph in response to the other engineer, so I'm not sure if they mentioned a specific intersection not working.
Yeah, I think they said I think I saw something about the turn lanes that were per that were you guys.
I think what you may be referring to was the spacing criteria for the Collier Parkway connection and that's what I just reviewed. Um we had spoken with transportation planning department staff and the county engineer and identified that our turn lanes will fit with the turn lanes that are currently out there already without overlap, without uh negative interaction between the two. So that has been reviewed with transportation department staff.
Well, you
know,
before we get into that, um Did our staff determine that we need that we will have the sufficient width To put in the trail. if it's going on which side is the trail going on and do we have what we need. Here comes Terry. Sorry.
You you're referring to the Colliera Parkway?
Yes.
Yeah, there there will be sufficient room to put a path in based on the requirement the width requirements for the ultimate Collier uh parkway right-of-way width. Um it is planned to be a four-lane uh road eventually, and so the right-of-way that we've that we're acquiring along Collier will enable a four-lane uh ultimate construction.
Well four lane plus the multi use
trail? Plus multi use trail which would be a twelve foot path that would include space to meander in.
And that p that twelve foot is on the west side of Collier?
Um at this time we don't know which side of the road that the twelve foot path will be on. Uh because there's not a uh planning document that illustrates that since the Collier Parkway is not in the CIP at this time.
But we're about to do that.
If I were to hazard a guess, ma'am, I'm looking at an aerial. There is a sidewalk on the east side of Collier Parkway. Yeah. And there is right of way that's available on the East Side. I'm sorry, the west side.
West side, yeah.
So it would
but I don't see that in their entrance feature plan where that could fit. So I just maybe I'm just not s maybe I'm not reading reading it right. But is um and I guess I could ask that to the applicant. What If this project is approved and there's a trail on the side, I I I think I see where your um thanks thanks Terry. Where where the right-of-way preservation is is. So your planning starts from the edge of that right-of-way preservation?
Yes, Shelley Johnson [address removed]. I have been sworn. Um what is required on your right-of-way preservation corridor, which would which I um I'm hearing from Terry from Sun you know, from Center Line is gonna actually account for this multi-use path. If there is right-of-way, we're we're giving whatever your corridor provides. We're not asking for any alternative sta standards or reductions. So if there's if that corridor, you know, takes that into account when a PD and E is done, then that right-way is gonna be there. It appears to our engineers that you're gonna have enough right-of-way to put a multi-use path on the west side.
Okay.
Um
Let's see
if I had any other questions here. Okay, um what how many forty lot foot lots are you guys proposing and how many fifty?
Um the mix we've got all fifties on the north side um and then we have a mix on the south side which is the one that's adjacent to Sable Ridge and Collier Parkway.
And and in Sable Ridge, what size are those lots?
Um I believe there are lot sizes that abut up to the back of one o of our southern side are sixty foot.
And um are they also ten foot setbacks in the back?
On their rear yards? Um I said question. Um I mean they look like I from the area they look pretty standard. I don't know if it's fifteen or or ten, but
ten's small. I d you shouldn't have ten layers. But you are proposing ten rear foot setbacks, right?
Uh no, we're fifteen. We're standard on the fifty and one ten. We're doing twenty from back at yeah, we're um I'm minimum oh I'm sorry, you're right, ten foot from principal and accessory.
Yeah, I saw ten here, which So what percentage of lot coverage do you guys have?
It's uh seventy five percent.
That's for both that's for both, you know, accessory and everything, so What's what's accessory? So if you have accessory structure, I mean that would be fifteen, so it would be sixteen if you just have a right you know, you just have a principal structure, so That's how they look at that. But yeah, the rear the rear.
Is that big?
What's that? Can you put a pool in a ten foot setback?
Well doesn't have to be a big
top. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I d I don't think they platform can. So depending on what the topography is in the backyard when it when they develop it out, but
Do you have a clubhouse or something here? Is there a clubhouse?
No, there's no clubhouse on this on these properties, no. I couldn't remember. No. There's park, the neighborhood parks. We're not asking for it like again, we're not asking for any alternative standards with regards to any of the right-of-way, you know, preservation that we're gonna be dedicating, you know, parks, we're gonna be providing everything that the code requires.
But yeah, Sable Ridge on that south side, I mean obviously on our our eastern side and our south side we're but we're we're budded by Sable Ridge, which you know has, you know, twelve hundred and some units, um and then call your parkway. So We have only twenty-two lots on the north side that are going out to Hill Road, and those are all fifties.
Sable Ridge does not have a clubhouse. Nothing. No. They're also, I think, missing trees, but we're looking into that. Okay. Um board members?
Well,
there's any more
questions.
Um You know, s someone brought up Babcock Ranch and But I you know, that's a very special development, but all their power lines are underground as I mentioned to a meter before. Looking at those power lines down Hail. Sure would have been nicer if those were underground.
Yeah. Yep. I'm sorry. I was gonna say is it to the board now? We're just gonna go.
Um You know, and like I said before, one of one of my fears for some of the folks that spoke today is that This may be a situation okay, let's say it does go through today that we know be coming back next year and the year after that and the year after that and the year after that. This you know, you could end up with situations that are a lot more dense. I mean a lot more dense. We've seen it happen. I mean again, I can't tell you, you know, what's gonna who's people's thoughts four years from now. You know, I just I have no clue what it's gonna be. I
knew that seven eleven wasn't a good fit and that's when when that was coming about and I think those people just kinda went away on their own after having conversations with m with myself and probably a of s some of the neighbors. Um so I don't disagree with that. There was a concern when it came to, you know, environmental adpacts because obviously the uh the um the gas lines and the and the tanks and everything being underneath. I don't know that's Well that I'm a little torn here. I mean I 'cause I and I say that a lot because I know s the the boards recent
conversations about 40-50 foot lots. So but I think I'll I think Mr. Mary Mariano wants to say something. I do, thank you.
Did you want to address that, the location of it water flowing uphill and downhill? Get that one answered.
Thank you, Madam Chair, again Cindy Terrapani for the applicant. Um originally uh all of the area south of that out parcel all the way to our southern edge of our property was a stormwater pond and it was rectangular going north and south. Because of the fact that we've now added that driveway to Collier Parkway and added an interconnect up to the outparcel for whatever that might be. Now the stormwater pond is linear going rectangular going east and west. It is still at this at this lower site, lower section of the property,
but our engineers have looked at it and they can make it work. Obviously, the final design is going to have to be approved by the city excuse me by the county and by Swift Mud, but it's in the generally the same place, it's just gotten a little bigger to the west.
We can show you on the master plan if you like or if that's a good enough explanation. I hope. If not, I'll be happy to answer. So
when you guys do your calculations, is it based on seventy-five percent coverage on every lot?
Now you're asking outside of my scope of my experience.
Robert Fudge, [address removed], having been sworn. Um yeah, the all the ponds preliminarily for the plan have been based on the um pervious area for the proposed project.
Okay. All right. Jack Jack I'm sorry, Jack was next. Unless you have a question on that same subject.
Okay, so how would that take in consideration for if they did add a pool or if they did add a slab of concrete for a patio or
that's why that seventy five percent impervious lot coverage that takes in into account pool packs and patios?
Okay, Commissioner Mariano.
Thank you. And I'm just going to touch on this just because of what was said early on. And I just want the standard of some court development, De Groot Sheffield 95 in Florida, says even layperson or non-expert testimony is in a zoning case is perfectly admissible and con and can and constitutes substantial competent evidence, if fact-based. Yeah. I've never seen as much facts-based evidence. in
a in a hearing that we saw today. I've never seen a planning commission go through and list thirteen reasons to why a project shouldn't go forward. Um I mean the projects are not entitled to the highest and best use. Compatibility is a big thing. All the other things are mentioned in there. When I look at the safety, I look at the density, I look at the stormwater, I look at the compatibility Um Yeah, we s we saw the pictures of the trash hollowers getting stuck, the book buses getting stuck, the traffic getting
stuck, the the lack of street lights that are out there on the on the sidewalk uh without sidewalks on a very narrow road where you gotta kinda walk in a ditch to go. Um Uh it's it's just this just doesn't fit. Um I I I really troubled to see why staff is actually bringing this to us with a recommendation at the get go from approval, I'm glad the Planning Commission actually studied it, looked at it, and made render recommendations. I appreciate the people that are living through this whole thing to
see it go forward. Um I will say as a commissioner I was very pleased Years ago we put Bell Lake through and Hail World through to help with some of the traffic out there going through. But as you know, I don't care if you have your access on Call Your Parkway. These kids going to school going on H hey road. It's dangerous down there. You got 'em in the morning, daylight savings time, late at night coming back from sports, whatever. It just doesn't fit. And I think you've got more criteria from the Planning Commission, that recommendation from them just gives you all the
reasons why this project shouldn't go forward.
Well in fairness, the The Planning Commission's uh voting was on the uh previous plan and they didn't vote on this plan where I think they 'Cause I listen to it. I don't know if you listen to it, but um They've changed pr they've changed they've changed the the plan out. I I'm still, you know I agree Hell Hill Road that we need to look at that road. Um but the but in fairness the Planning
Commission a lot of it some of the comments are still relevant, but that was a different plan. plan.
Smallest less being sixty foot next door. With everything else going on there. And we've talked about, we just, I mean we talked earlier today about 40 and 54 lots. What's going to go on there? There's no there's not even a clubhouse for the kids to go play here. Where are they gonna go? They're gonna go somewhere, they're gonna leave there. How are they gonna get there? There's not sidewalks to the whole neighborhood to get there. So as far as safety This is big. I I just don't see it fitting. And and I said to the applicants when they were coming forward to say, I don't I don't like the fact that you just put everything in collar.
I think you should open the thing up to have more access roads. I think that's good. But even still with all that said, this traffic on this road with all the Data we've been given, all the information we've been given. It this isn't this is not a hard one to me.
Yeah.
Madam Chair.
Commissioner. Just some I don't remember um the school board member, was he for or against the project? Yeah. Against okay 'cause I am looking at the numbers it is ninety six percent capacity, but they're under forty seven students, but by next year they're estimated to be under eight students. Um I do have concerns without there being sidewalks for these kids that are walking to and from school. I don't feel that road improvement should be
taking ten years behind the development. I do believe in growth concurrency even though we don't really have it, but we need to be able to keep up with our roads and our infrastructure. Like you mentioned as well. all of the data and the flooding and things I am concerned. And I also think it's very important that the developers and the communities can talk and try to work on addressing all the kinks as well because
there are a lot of concerns that I have.
Yeah, Madam Chair?
Yeah.
So looking at you guys. Um I can I'm pretty good at counting votes. You're probably don't you can't come up on that on this one. Okay. Well unless I'm just saying I'm I'm thinking. Yeah, no, I'm just yeah, I was gonna say maybe I'm just giving an opportunity here.
I speak free speak front, tell me.
I'm counting either at three two or four or four one probably. I don't know. I mean I'm kind of counting them up here. Um I know when we had the this for the for the record, when we had our when we had our conversation um last week, you had mentioned you guys were at kind of a drop dead of a take data tomorrow. I mean you you've heard concerns. Do you guys think there's anything else you can do? And I think now that'd be the time to let 'em
up.
Work for KB Homes. I'd like to add, we're building sidewalks on both Hale Road and Collier Parkway where they don't exist today. We're going to make it safer. We're adding a new turn lane. I'd like to add the multi-purpose trailway. We'll commit. We think we have the right-of-way now. We can design it. We can build it. It'll be a much safer situation. 109 houses. We're approving thousands. Of houses and areas that don't have this level of planning, two new turn lanes, a brand new sidewalk system,
a multi-purpose trail, and yes, we have three parks for the kids. We have an eternal park, we have a lakefront park, and we have a park that's along Collier Parkway. So we have three recreational opportunities. This is a project that should win an award. It's 2.4 units per acre. I think Commissioner Moore's statement is well taken. There was a Publix that was going to go in on this corner and the Publix came very close to going forward. We wound up planning a residential development that
the owners considered superior. The alternative is a pure commercial project. I'd like to see what the Rosebud Continuum would do with thousands of trips. This is a very low density project. It's well planned. It it should win a ULI award, Commissioner. This is a I I I really don't understand why there's those comments from Planning and Zoning Board, I don't think they were well thought out. I dun they didn't come from the board. I think they came as an afterthought from the assistant county
attorney. And I don't think they're representative of the new project today, which is replanned based on those comments. We added a brand new entryway into Collier Parkway. It's a much safer project. Uh this is a very supportable project. I hope we get your vote. Thank you.
Michael, if you could, Madam Chairman M Yeah, and and Michael, I want to say You, your team that you've got, you have great professionals here, great representation. That you do. And in the development itself. I think you've done as good as you can do. But what's around it, you can't fix Hill Road all the way to forty one.
But but Commissioner, there's a seven hundred and eleven unit project to the right-of-way.
If I could finish, sir. Yes,
sir.
If I could finish. When we built Hill Road, we knew we didn't have room for a sidewalk. We knew there were drainages, et cetera, but we wanted to get the connection for the traffic that was going on through the through the whole area, that and Bell Lake, just to get people back and forth. It wasn't to go accommodate Moran's stringent development coming in. Now you've got a zoning in place that you could go utility in as they're recommended. But To go fit this in to go through is not a it's not it's not the right thing to do as far as
I'm concerned as a commissioner. And again, your team is great. I'm not downing your project. I'm just saying this project in this place doesn't work for me.
Yes, sir, and I apologize for interrupting, but compatibility when you have a 711-unit PUD to the north and a 649-unit PUD to the south, how are we not compatible? We have 50-foot lots, more 50s than 40s. They have 65-foot lots. It's single family to single family. The rear yard, where we said we have smaller rear yards, we're providing a 20-foot rear buffer and a 10-foot additional rear buffer for landscape, fencing, and whatever. So we're going above and beyond code. 109
units, 2.4 units per acre. Uh this is a very low density, very supportable, very responsible development.
Can I ask you the twenty-foot buffer, uh what
are
you buffering against? Is that
the residential single family that's next to us? We have to do that. When
do
we
buffer uh buffer residential to residential? We don't do that. Why are we making them do that?
We're doing it because the our lots are slightly smaller than theirs. So we're providing them extra privacy and we're adding to our backyards. The smaller backyards you talked about, we now actually have more room. So it would be a landscape area.
Because I I would have gotten rid of the buffer. But you you are um that buffer gets added to the to the people's backyards. Yes, it's just that they have to have a landscaped part of their backyard, is that right?
Yeah, we're gonna put fence on one side with landscape and it'll be part of their backyard.
But people we don't buffer lands uh residential to residential. It's not code. It's not the code and we I personally don't think we should be making people do that.
I mean this is a really good project. We've worked for two years. Mike
I I and I I I wanna tell um some of the public here, I mean I and especially the kids who I I
And we appreciate um all that Rosebud is doing, I do want to speak to the bishops after on something separate. But um But
Our family used to have an environmental um We used to do environmental tours on our property and And I I I appreciate how you wanna um Um
have that kind of experience for people on your property. But your property rights end at your property line. And and and then this person over here has property rights. So um I'm not sure if that if there were if when you came in to do what you're doing if if it was zoned for a school there, I I c I I don't see that on here. That's what I want to talk to you about. So uh but you know we we love what you're doing. Um So Uh so we
we have to take into account um the laws and property rights of everybody. And uh sometimes it's very difficult for us to make these decisions. I would never have even considered approving this in the decision in and what it looked like before. Um And And I do think that w we have some challenges there on Hill Road and I Like to see what we can do as a county, I think to make that a safer road.
It just I just cringe when I see those kids walking on there. Um, I think the sidewalk will be helpful and hopefully that's where the bus stop goes is where the sidewalk is. I think that'll be beneficial for everybody. I um texted Ray Gad during this meeting because I see Pine View Middle School over here and I guess there's I don't know, have we approved a development that's going in between Call your parkway and Pine View. Is there something going in there? I don't know 'cause I don't you know, I'm just looking on Google Maps. But
I hope that's a good idea. We are gonna provide a way for kids from down here to be able to get from Collier over to the school Not having to go through um on these main roads, we need to have some kind of path We need to plan that ahead of time so then when something comes in There is some way for all these kids to get to that middle school. There is.
Well, w when I'm looking on the map there's n there's nothing here yet.
Madam Clerk? Yeah. I mean for all the think about all the high school kids. The what? The high school kids. Going down Hill Road. Literally when we tried to build that road, we tried to put a sidewalk in.
You can't have the ditch. You would have to put you'd have to put the um Um our administrator's an engineer, but I know how it would have to be 'cause I've seen it
Like a lot of things.
They put a pipe in and there's no more ditch. But there is a way to fix that. And I think the county And
and and we looked at the expense of that.
Yeah no it's g
it would be expensive. So for this development to come in, we're gonna b go put that expense on all the other citizens in the county?
No. I
don't think
it's a good thing.
But he's just taking care of his but he's just taking care of his property. But what about the rest of it? The rest of the kids gonna still travel those roads. I mean we you can't ignore what you saw in the video. I'm not. But I'm just saying it's not compatible with what we have in place. The infrastructure doesn't support it.
I I
I think if Hale Road was fixed and there wasn't so much flooding and I believe there was a pool that completely had looked like six inches of water over the pool. If the flooding issues weren't there, if the sidewalk issue wasn't there, if the safety issue wasn't there, if the roads were improved, I think you guys are doing a great project if it was a different time, if these improvements were able to be made prior to your community coming in.
So um so Swift Mud will not let this project put any water on anyone else's property. That they have to contain everything that is generated here. So whatever happens here is not gonna It's not gonna cause fix those problems and we should be looking at what's causing those, but it's not gonna be coming from here. Uh on the contrary, sometimes these these fix those problems. But um I I wonder if the
applicant might consider putting
More fifties and less forties. And maybe you might see more positive. Or since or some sixties. Yeah.
Madam Chairman Mariano Dadey again, I've been sworn. We do have more fifties than forties. We started at 150 units when we submitted. We're down to 109. And frankly, only 104 are going to be built because we put Collier Parko in. So we have an approval for But there will only be 104 houses and there are more 50-foot lots than 40-foot lots. Uh-huh. I mean this is as low density as is viable and still have a community that can have parks and recreation opportunities
and affordable housing. I mean right now housing is facing a crisis. Our industry is in a point where mortgages are such that a regular first-time homebuyer can't afford a house. This is one way to address that, having a mixture of lots of Sizes 40s but more 50s will allow us to have an affordable housing. That's important too. I mean all these people that talk today, they live in a house. This area is a comp plan res 6. It's surrounded by development. Water,
sewer, police, fire, all these facilities are in there for a reason. It's a very supportable project. Uh we would be happy to for fit more fifties in if we could, but then we would have to impact wetlands. Right now we have no houses on the lake. We could line that lake with houses, make million-dollar houses, and probably be much more profitable. But we're preserving the entire lake. You can't ask us to be good environmental citizens and have a sustainable development, in my opinion,
where there is no Development of the lake, no wetland impacts, and only a hundred and four houses that will actually be built.
It's really a good plan, Commissioner. It's it's the sidewalks we're putting in or addressing an existing problem. We have sidewalks now at Hale going all the way to Collier Parkway, turning south to Sable Ridge. That will allow the kids to walk on a sidewalk. What's there now? We're gonna wait till twenty forty, you know, when the hail is improved, we can do something today Uh not to mention the turn lane movements and now the multi-purpose trailway, the 12 foot trailway. Right.
Yeah,
I I I don't if I Madam Chair. Yeah. I I know, last go. I I I can tell you right now you got two that aren't sure about it and you got three that are no. So I can I can count my votes, I'm very good at it. You know, I mean I'm just being honest. So I know is there in if there's anything else.
Hold on, hold on.
But I will go to 55% on 50 foot lots, so I'll lose additional density. I'll probably be down to 102 units. Uh uh I mean we've worked on this for two years. We're in the market district of the county. This is where public Publix is the regional park, the schools, the new sewage treatment plant. This is where development was slotted to be for the last 25 years. It's not a virgin piece of forest that is somehow
should be preserved because there's endangered species or other compelling reasons. I will amend our application to go to 55%, 50-foot lots. uh a an additional loss of of lot density, if you guys can see it your way to get to that third vote.
I I have one more question for you. Yes sir. And uh I and this is a tough question for me to ask. But I I just I'm sorry. But construction on your entrance to that project that's from on Hale North your construction equipment. How is that gonna work?
Th that that that's uh that's a tough one off the cuff to answer. I know that we use site maintenance, you have a construction entrance that whatever the safest area is, I think that would be off of Collier Parkway, or you have a temporary construction access to allow traffic to flow through. Um we would not propose to go off hail road for the construction access except that area that is north by the lake. Well, twenty-two
houses.
How can you You put as l as lease Um Construction uh traffic into that. I mean are there things you can do Um to g to do that very quickly so that you have I I mean I can see I can see some issues with your dump your fill trucks and all that coming in there.
I can I can make a commitment to use the first phase development to take care if that's the concern that the north of Hale Road is addressed first, then that can be a sequence of construction that we can agree to. Um in other words we can hit that first so that there is not truck traffic on the north side of the hill.
So this is a question that I've never contemplated before, but is is it possible that You that that Entrance can be um done. during the part of the season where there's you have the ability to do it as quickly as possible?
I will ha put whatever condition I can to my contractor, but I can't agree to that up front. We usually try to work within the dry season. There there is no flooding caused by this project. No no
I I'm just concerned like the width of a filter truck. Coming down hail going in in and out of there. That's what I'm
concerned about. I I can absolutely sequence it so that we address Hale Road as our primary concern. We'll use the construction entrance off to Collier Parkway, come through the southern part of the property and then come up only for that brief crossing. So it'll be a very limited space of time onto Hale Road and it's only twenty-two houses. I can make a commitment that will fill that area. F in the first phase of the development. In and out. You won't even see us.
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know.
I'm not bad. Yeah, it's a it's a half and half and that's not very good.
I'll make a motion. Madam Chair. I'm going to move to deny or to support the Planning Commission recommendation of denial based upon all the criteria that they had submitted, based upon all the all the evidence that was submitted to us as well.
I'll second.
Yeah, well I think that's a dead project. Uh, for now. I don't know. I think you have three no's and I'm still a mayb. Um but I have to say seeing the video Seeing the video of those kids walking down that street. And And dump truck and the filter trucks I I just I'm I'm nerv makes me really nervous. We're making the example
better, not worse.
I know. But to get there that's the challenge. I don't know, I can't speak. I mean you have you have two there. And she's already was against the roll. Okay.
It's not a roll call. Or it's not called the question. It's not a roll call unless you you think that's the right-of-way. So I have to call the motion. That's what I have to do. I have to call the
question. Okay. Okay. All those in favor of um support
Yeah, sorry.
Call for the other side. Just so
uh any nays. Um I guess I'm gonna have to be an I too. I'm sorry. I just the filter truck situation coming in on the north. is just what's coming from. So that's 50.
Did the game.