Conditional Use Request (Consent) – Nikki Clemente and Michael Rutman– Approval of a Vacation Rental/Short Term Rental in a R-4 High Density Residential District – Northwest Pasco County – West Side of Birch Street, approximately 600 Feet North of Port Hudson Boulevard – Containing Approximately 0.11 Acre File Number PDD23-CU09
What the county recorded
No disposition in the minutes
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The source document
The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Feb 16, 2023
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Feb 16, 2023
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
What was said
Machine transcription of 1h 11m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 65% of 405 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Thank you. Now we'll move on to PC six.
Okay.
Fleam Divine Planning and Development. Good afternoon. Um item PC six. PDD twenty three dash C U09 in the name of Nikki Clemente and Michael Rutman. It is a conditional use for the Cation Rental slash short-term rental in a R4 high density residential district. The subject site is located on the west side of Birch Street, approximately 600 feet north of Port Hudson Boulevard. Here is an aerial view of the subject site.
Mm-hmm.
The surrounding future lane use on all sides is Res 6.
The surrounding zoning is all R four.
The subject site contains a single family dwelling that was built in two um twenty twenty. Um on approximately point eleven of an acre on August first, twenty twenty. 2022, sorry. Um the property owner received an ordinance violation warning notice um for offering a vacation rental slash short-term rental without pro um prior approval. Vacation rentals are defined as dwelling units that have been advertised as available for more than three times per year
for a period of fewer than 30 days at a time. And in accordance with the LDC section 402.5B, the subject application was accompanied by a petition a favor of a minimum of 51% of the Gulf Shores first edition. as required by the land development code. The surrounding area is characterized by the Gulf Shores subdivision and consisting of single family dwellings on waterfront lots. And the surrounding uh the property has a future land use classification
of res six under the comprehensive plan. This is coming with a recommendation for approval with conditions as provided in your agenda packet from planning planning and development department. I'm here if you have any questions.
Okay, thank you. Any questions really? was the
citation issued what what precipitated the citation.
Mr. Moody, what precipitated the citation is that someone called in, um, uh a neighbor called in stating that there was um activity, rental activity at the location. Um I did speak to Officer Tomo when we received this application. I typically one of us contacts the officer and you know interviews the officer to find out and Officer Tomo did tell me that the immediately the the activity ceased and desisted.
Okay.
It wasn't like a noise complaint or anything like that?
The complaint was basically that there was um rental activity occurring without proper approvals.
Okay.
Thanks, Lamb. Is the applicant present?
The applicant is virtually present, so we can upgrade Ms. Um uh Clemente Rutman.
All right.
Ms. Rutman, would you please uh state your name and address for the record and whether you've been sworn?
I lost you there for a moment. Could you please repeat the request?
Would you please state your name and address for the w record and whether you've been sworn?
Um uh Nikki Clobente Rutman. Um and would you like my husband also to Provide his information as well.
Michael.
Okay, and um our home address is five Imperial Road in Worcester, Massachusetts, and this is 414-429-Birch Street in Hudson, Florida.
Have you been sworn? Um w um we participated in the swearing in at the beginning. I don't know if we need to do that. That's all we needed. Thank you.
You could you could speak, provide your information if you'd like.
Yes, if you give us a little background on your uh on your property there and what you're doing and and How it how it came to be. That'd be grateful. That'd be we'd be grateful for that.
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. My husband and I came to the area in 2017. And we completely enjoyed the nature that's provided in this area. We enjoy kayaking and outdoor activities. We love that the neighborhood was quiet and on a cul-de-sac and close to the modern conveniences. In the course of our visit to the area, we decided that this is where we would like to retire in the future when that becomes
an option for us. And we chose to purchase a property with the intention of using it as our retirement home in the future. In order to make that financially feasible, we're seeking this conditional use application to be able to afford the mortgage and keep this property for our future retirement planning.
Okay. Um Is is that it? Is that your statement? Yes, sir.
Are you able to afford your mortgage payment if it's a long term rental?
Um do you mean by uh like a lease?
Yes.
Uh no. Uh given the current lease rate in in that part of Florida, we wouldn't be able to afford the mortgage.
Okay. When you acquired the property, um Were you aware of the uh restrictions on vacation rentals or did Is that something that you found out later?
Um, it became clear to us when we received the citation.
Okay, so uh up to that point you weren't aware that there was restriction.
No, we talked about it with our realtor. Our realtor never advised us that that was an issue. And and apparently a fault of our own, we didn't look into it further. We assumed our realtor was familiar with the area.
Yeah, that would be a normal thing to assume. Um can't trust those guys, you know.
How often are you renting the property?
Um we ideally would like to rent it to um, you know, quote unquote snowbirds in the winter. Um and for you know about I think we figured that we could probably conceivably rent it 16 weeks in addition to those monthly winter winter rentals. Um
That's basically what we figured based on, you know, what the what when people travel to Florida.
I think more to the question is are you renting this thing out every weekend as, you know, a weekend getaway or are you renting this a month at a time or two months at a time? Every few months. I'm trying to get a gauge
on
the rental activity.
Good Gotcha. We want to rent it on a weekly basis. We don't want to rent it for weekends or short-term getaways. We want to comply with the county's requirement of a, I think it's a six-day, five-night requirement. We don't want that kind of turnover in our property. It's far too disruptive to the neighborhood and damaging to our, you know, to our assets. Yeah.
D do you um make use of the property yourself? Uh so do you come down on and vacation here as well?
Yes, we were actually there for the whole month of January. We had intended to be there in person, but our our date got pushed to to this date. Um and then we we kind of get down there as much as our work schedules can permit.
And so you would concur that um if there was long term rental of that property, that would prohibit you from being able to do that?
Yes, sir.
Liam Mother Rutman's been provided with this, I assume.
Yes,
they were provided with it today.
Uh what I'm holding out, Ms. Radman, is it is a comment letter that we received. Um unfortunately we just received it on the dais as we uh entered the meeting. But do you have any comments on that that letter?
Um yes, we we my husband and I had a chance to review it. Um We when we were there in January, we did um speak to uh our neighbors to understand what the concerns were. Um, and we did agree with them um that we would. um you know meet meet all of the county requirements, you know, sticking to the that six um six day, five night requirement, all of the noise conditions, that we would also uh block off scallop
week, which seemed to be a big concern for the neighbors, that that creates a lot of commotion in the neighborhood. And that we would stick to the county's requirement of two people per bedroom, which is just eight to house just eight people. It's a four-bedroom house. We wouldn't allow any parties. Um we'll we're also intend to follow the similar guidelines to hotels and other lodging. We wouldn't rent to anyone under the age of 25. Um
I think some of the other concerns that were addressed were noise. So we have put up a number of signs on the property implementing quiet hours and would continue to list that in the In the rental listing, as well as making it clear to anyone who communicated with us through the rental process that these quiet hours would be strictly enforced. Um
We're also looking into a few options in terms of how we can better monitor for noise. I guess there are a few products out there on the market. We've only recently started to look at it, so we don't really have an option ready to put in place, but we're we're looking at how we can better address the noise concerns that the neighbors kind of addressed in both their letter and to us personally. Since we moved into that neighborhood or purchased a property in that neighborhood, we've been very forthcoming with our contact information. All of our
neighbors have our phone numbers, both my husband and I, so that they can reach out to us with concerns. And um I don't think we've ever had them reach out with any issue to date. But we were absolutely open to their their comments, concerns, and willing to uh work with everyone. I mean, we value the neighborhood as well and we want to preserve that.
How long were you renting the property before you were issued a citation?
Well, we owned the property. We owned one property in the neighborhood and had rented that one up until COVID started, and then basically sold that property to build the one that was built in 2022. And really only had rented it a few times before we received a citation.
Are you collecting and remitting sales tax on the rentals?
Yes, um we do that through both Airbnb and VRBO. It's set up through the application to cover all of the required occupancy taxes.
Okay.
are are you aware of any other uh rentals on that on your street or in that area? Or that already have committed to the right-of-way.
Uh none that are approved.
Because I did look on V I I did look and saw one was advertised. Yeah, they're all over. Yeah, yeah.
So for the record, there there
is
no one in that subdivision nor in the adjacent subdivision that has a registered vacation rental with Pasco County. Right. Does Pasco
County code enforcement review The popular the Airbnb and V R B O websites to see if there are rentals which are not registered?
I believe that they do. However, I will say that as a former code enforcement officer myself, those are very difficult things to prove.
Yeah, it's it was not understanding how it's difficult to prove if they have advertising.
Because they can advertise it and no one is occupying it. I understand.
Also they can they can advertise it and they could run it for three months. Yeah. It doesn't mean they're gonna run it for two weeks. So um You know, there there were I'm very familiar with the vacation rentals because I handled three hundred of 'em. At one time. before the county prohibited it. And the thing I found that about vacation rentals is that as soon as the county prohibited the vacation rentals and made it more difficult Wait D
the houses that were formerly Highly well main maintained. and taken care of because people were coming here for vacation. It had to be had to be right. Deteriorated. I look like it. Literally like crap after about two years. Yeah. Because they started renting the people that were there for long term. But they were also people that didn't always pay their rent. They parked trucks in the yard. They Do all kinds of things that you can't do with a vacation
rental. So for me If I had a g a vacation real next door to me, I'd be perfectly fine with it. because I know they're gonna be especially if I live in a in a development that doesn't have a strong HOA. To take care of it. because you know, for uh fortunately I live in that kind of an area now and I appreciate it because if someone starts parking in their yard or on the grass or uh doesn't maintain their property. There's a There was a source to take
care of it. But if you live in an area just in the county I mean Regency Park, for example, is a is a perfect example of what used to be That's really super nice development. Mm-hmm. And uh you can see what's happened to it. You know, that you get some Very nice homes. But you also get a lot of Not so well taken care of homes. And that's because people came down here Sold their home up north. They got a good money f up north. They bought
a relatively inexpensive home here, but it was a great looking little home. They lived in it until they passed away. They left it to their relatives up who were up north. And their only r resource was to Run it long term. to to somebody that didn't take care of it and they're never here to check on it. So To me. Having a long term rental next to me would be scarier than having a short term rental. Because if you're gonna have a short term rental,
you better keep it in good shape or you're not gonna be You're gonna have to give them a refunding of their money. Yeah, because I mean we had Nice homes with swimming they all had to have swimming pools and all kinds of things. and had a laundry s laundry service and Um Most the t most of the people don't spend a lot of time there. I I actually They they s end up going to Disney or they go to Tampa to Bush Gardens or they you know, they're only there at night, usually. Or
in this case maybe they're kayaking or whatever it might be, but Um, I think there's a real this misconception about vacation rentals and I think the county is a very good thing. Personally, I think the county made a big mistake. Bye. uh disallowing them. You know, it but we had people most of my clients were from Switzerland and in England, Germany. You know, they came over here, they bought cars, they bought Clothes they bought. Now
we don't have any of those people.
So Mr. Chair, just to be clear, the county didn't really disallow them, they just required them to go through the process that
It's
going through today. So they're not really illegal, they just have to go through this process. I just want to be clear about that.
I get your point. I'm just
saying that they they just go. She's trying
to make her use legal, so I don't want anybody to think that she's gonna get it done and it'll be illegal because it will be legal if she gets it done. Right. And
there are lots of illegal ones out there.
Mr. Chairman speaking as a financial advisor, I've often advised my clients to do exactly what um Mr. Uh uh Rutman and Miss Clemente are are doing. Um it's definitely a viable way of of helping build your nest egg for your retirement, especially if you intend on on moving and uh I know the the winters aren't so nice up at Worcester so uh I can I can I I get it. Yeah,
I just wondered if she's really a Worcester person because I didn't hear any accent.
Presumably you've got a property manager too that that you've engaged, correct, to to turn over the property when you're in I I don't see you flying back and forth every every time it turns over, correct? So
someone's watching
the house.
Yes, we have a local cleaning company who comes in and does the turnover, lets us know if there's issues that need to be addressed. They help coordinate any um, you know, contractors or um things that need to be done. And we work hand in glove to make sure that there aren't any issues or concerns and they're a trusted partner in this or or they will be should we receive the approval.
Okay, thanks.
So they handle handle any maintenance items that might come up while during a stay or afterwards as well?
Yes, any any small jobs they can handle and then anything that might require you know more skilled labor they let us know right away oftentimes they they come with recommendations We actually have a good electrician already that we work with and have worked with a few good plumbers in the past Especially in the process of having this house built. So we have those available to us should there be something bigger that they can't handle.
Okay. Great, thanks. Any other questions?
All right. We do have some folks who are here to speak. So if you I would you like to
Yeah, if
you want to come up and
uh
Robert Urbane is the first person. I think Liam may have something to do. Yeah,
sorry. Before we move to um have the next person come speak, I do would like to request to receive and file that letter I did provide you in the beginning. I have given a copy to the clerk's office. Move to receive and file the letter provided. Second.
We have a motion and a second. All in favor? Thank you. All right, thank you, Liam. Okay, for anybody who'd like to come up and ask questions or or uh speak today. Um And you come up and give us your name and address. And tell us whether you've been sworn.
My name's Bob Irvane and I live next next door to the uh To the house, mm-hmm. The rental house. And
Can you please put my driver's
mine is [address removed].
Okay, I live next door to this. And some people say If they live next door to one It'd be better than the long term. Rental. Well I think a lot of people that approve of vacation rentals do not live next door to them. 'Cause these people Get road. And they wake me up. I gotta work. Every day we're to go drive to Tampa. And I got people there. Maybe a few people
might rent the house but then they bring all their local friends and they stop over there too. So you got like a bunch of people there, they get loud, they party, they come All times in the night. I remember uh
not too long ago before they got shut down some people come in unload boats at two thirty in the morning, shining their headlights at my house, at my w bedroom window. and banging around unloading boats. They don't have any uh respect For the neighbors. They're there. If they pen spend a lot of money. And they want to unwind for a week. And they do. and we gotta deal with it. And they say they're They're they're running
this to be able to afford it, so sometime down the road they're gonna come here and live full time. When is that? And Since and it's supposed to be me that's supposed to Have the shortcomings of this because they're trying to pay for their property. I know when I was making Yeah.
payments on my house I didn't affect any neighborhood uh neighbors doing it. You know, and
Other things happened there. They before they ha m had that house built, the house right next door, they were renting that. And that was a never ending every weekend, every weekend, just non stop. And it And it gets to you. You gotta get up and go to work and uh you lose sleep. Time's up. No, you got another minute. Okay. Yeah.
Go ahead.
And I just don't approve it 'cause I live next door to it and If they're allowed to do it, There's other houses on the block that are On the other side of me another big vacation rental. What's gonna stop them for trying to get a variance too?
And then anybody can ask for a variance. It doesn't mean they'll get get the variance, but how many complaints have you had to file there?
I've called the county years before No, it's nothing I can do. So last year they they decided the county decided to regulate it. So after the scallop season there's like It was is a mess. There's twenty five people between both houses. I got pictures. of my situation.
And everything.
See we're my house and
I have a motion. Are you gonna leave us those?
Yeah, I got two copies of all of it.
Uh would you give them to the clerk clerk over there and she can pass them around?
I'm sorry, I don't
know how this
is.
That's all right. No problem. No problem.
Yeah, this is just photographs of my situation where I live and Yeah,
she'll pass them down the line, so
Sir are you Saying that
just a point of order, John. So we had a motion of second and then we need to vote, I guess, we had a motion of
second, we haven't voted. Yeah. So we have a motion of second. Further discussion, all in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay.
You're you're saying that These rentals are occurring just weekends or are they happening for the five nights and six days that were talked about previously?
Well the last two rentals they had and they are renting now It's been one month period. Okay. And then before that, like around the scallop season, which is like what, July or There was that was weekly. And those were usually weekly. You know, they they had a house built last year and it was right around April or something like that that was finished and then they could start renting. And that was weekly. until
I made the complaint with with code enforcement you know, t to see if there's an anything they can do. And then I did read the article that says they at least have to be registered. So they're safe, they're not a fire hazard or anything like that. So I said they're driving me nuts, so I'll at least make sure they're registered. And that's what I did.
Did did you just mention that they're renting now? Yes. This this house.
Yes. And on the other side of me in the picture shows another big house. On the other side of me, they're renting out too.
But they're not weekend rentals.
No, they have been on the other side they had one month and then the other month. When code enforcement came in
Visitor that's there now, is that do you know if that's a weekly rental or a monthly rental or
Well the after code enforcement came out, like in I think it was around August last year, it does did shut them down. They stayed shut down. For months. And then we're going to do that.
They the owners came to the house what was it last month to try to make the first meeting, but that was postponed till this one. And then after they did, now they have renters there. And they're there today? Yes. Well
they can still rent the property.
But I'm just telling you that they're there and they're for a month. They're for a month. I know they got three three month month periods a year that they can do. So that they're there for a month. And on the other side of me they're not registered and they're
What I'm trying to get at is are you saying there's a violation going on today?
I don't think so. Because they're doing one month.
Got
it.
but I'm just
telling you that they are renting now.
I I saw the pictures. What specifically uh are you concerned about from the photos I saw cars parked, meat yards, no beer cans, no bottles, no tracking. Crazy people that
drive you nuts. They give you dirty looks. They look at like they want to fight you. You know, they don't want their d their vac they come and like take over the neighborhood when they're there. They w You know
Well has anybody threatened you? I mean anybody try to fight you? No. They just give you what you think's a dirty look.
Yeah.
Okay.
Has anybody accosted you? Pardon? Has anybody accosted you? Fight you fought you or challenged you or verbally attacked you or anything like that?
Well I've had problems on the other side, but I did have problems when he was renting the other house out and I could just see starting to happen.
Tell me define the problem.
uh playing loud music till like m midnight or is or later and you go over there and you tell 'em Could you turn it down? I hear your music in my house and I'm trying to go to bed. Well what are you gonna do about it? Okay. So I go, I'll call the cops. That's what I'll do about it. That's that's the things I go through.
Okay. There you go. Have have you ever actually had to call the police for noise issues past?
Not on that house because it's new and but the other house on the side of me few times. And People would come like every hour and a half they'd get in their car, start their car, take off somewhere, come back, beep the horns, slam the doors And then an hour and a half, do it again, do it again, do it again. Well I gotta work. And I can't just stay up all night, so I decide I'm gonna call the cops so they can stop this so I can at least get some sleep and do my job.
And I had to negotiate with Pasco County Sheriff's Department for like twenty minutes to try to get 'em to come out. And once they came out, you know what? They said the magic words and I had no problem. at the rest of the week that they're there. And
Burns on you 'cause you don't know every week what's gonna uh come in. You know, you might have good people a couple of times in a row and then uh oh. You could almost tell we're gonna have problems. Just the way they pull in the lot, making all kinds of noise. And throwing the trash around. I have trespassing on my property, they'll come on my dock because they cast it over my dock and and pulling their fishing line or hooks out of my dock. So I got people trespassing,
could get hurt.
This
your house
in the photo?
Yes, the little one between those two.
Is that your boat trailer in the photo? Yes.
Do we allow boat trailer parking in the front yard?
That is prohibited. That's prohibited. Okay, I have to change that.
That's that's the kind of thing I'm talking about though. You know, you you can't do that kind of stuff if you're renting your property. And uh Um You know, I think that's a good idea I guess my experience is that I'm not sure if you're And my thinking is is that if I've got a person that I don't really care for next to me I know they're only gonna be there for a week. But if I get a long term renter in there, it might be there for two years. So Um we don't always have a choice about who we got who we have next to us, but
we do Maybe have a choice of how long they're gonna be there. Oh,
we do.
You know, I think that's a good idea. Did anybody else have any questions? I want to give you as much time as possible. I know I've given you more time than I think there's others. But I think we have two
others that have signed up to speak on
this one. So let's let's hear what they have to say and okay. We appreciate you coming. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thanks very much.
Okay, who who else would like to speak?
Okay. If you could give us your full name and your address, please. And you've been sworn right, Dreenie?
Yes.
Okay.
My name is Jeannie Johnston. I live at one four four or [address removed]. I used to live directly across the street from That the tall house. We call it the tall house on our street. And it was a vacant lot then. When we found out that they were building, we sold and moved into a a different house on the block. And before I get started, I do have copies, two copies of the information that I'm gonna give
you.
Okay.
So I don't know, do I need to give you a
motion? So moved.
One is
a good one.
All in favor? Aye.
Aye.
Okay.
Okay, so we can pass that to that back for you.
Okay. Before I get started, I'd like to read a letter from one of our Neighbors on the street that was unable to attend. Okay. So she sent a letter which is in that packet that I gave you, and it says, Dear Planning Council, my name is Kim Cardinal and I live at [address removed] in Hudson, Florida. I have lived at this address just short of 30 years. I am writing this because I'm unable to attend today's Planning Council meeting in person. I run a small family-owned business that needs my attention
daily. My life and business partner passed away five years ago. My home is my safe haven. I want to voice my concerns over the short-term rental that's located at 144-29 Birch Street. Since the property has been opened to weekly rentals, there have been new people in and out every week. We are experiencing issues with excess traffic on our very narrow road, and at times the road has been completely blocked to the residents. The neighbors on either side of the
rental house have also had to deal with increased noise. Birch Street used to be a very quiet, peaceful, and small community of neighbors. I fear that allowing the use of the home as a business will continue to disrupt the peace of our neighborhood and more importantly, impact the safety and security of the residents that have lived there with their families for years. We have a lot of small children and pets that play on our dead end street daily. The approval of this type of use on Bird Street
will lead to a busy, loud, and dangerous situation in our tiny community. The renters in these situations are strangers to us and often have no care for anything other than their vacation fund. The disruption of our neighborhood can have lasting negative impacts on the health, safety, and comfort of all the other residents on Birch Street. Thank you.
Thank you.
In
This group there's a there's a large group of us here today which represents All but two of our total permanent full-time residents in our neighborhood. It's a fourteen house neighborhood. And seven of the houses are either vacant lots Owners that are out of state or out of country that have full-time rentals. And Um And part-time, people that stay only part-time. They're the house that
we had across the street is now a vacation rental, but only for the people that bought it. It sits empty most of the time. They usually come a week or two out of the month and stay for the weekend and then they go back home, but they don't rent it to anyone else. So we have houses like that. The following is a list of our areas of concern that as owner-occupied neighbors in this prop property feel the need to be addressed before you grant them a permit. 517.1
of the code states the purpose of an R4 high-density residential district is to encourage the orderly development and preservation without sacrificing the individualized nature of a single-family residence. We feel this cannot be achieved by allowing short-term vacation rentals within our smaller family-oriented and retiree community. This is the same thing that attracted the Rutmans to our neighborhood.
But they now want to take that away by renting to large groups of people until they decide to move in in twenty years. Or fifteen years or however till their retirement.
I just wanted to make sure you understand that your time is officially up. So I want you to try to get it all in.
Okay.
So okay.
Okay. If approved, this house should be closely monitored with enforceable penalties for the infractions. What county entity will oversee these infractions when they happen, and what will be the result if they have multiple infractions? I know for a fact that reporting can be a daunting task. On our overworked and understaffed code enforcement and the Pasco County Sheriff's Office, because I've dealt with them in the past. The
letter signed by these individuals indicating their agreement with the approval of the short-term rental was very vague and did not convey the necessary information to make a good sound judgment decision to impact to the impact on our community life. Such as traffic and parking constraints, noise, number of tenants, length of stays, number of pets, number of boats per rental, devaluation of our properties, the crime rates, insurance cost with the claims that come with a vacation rental, to
name just a few. Chapter four hundred Point five, Item 7 requires standards to allow vacation rentals to exist. These standards need to be addressed prior to the approval. This is such as the setbacks between the dwellings, parking, the number of boats, the number of persons, noise ordinance, etc., all of these can have a major adverse effect on our small community on a dead-end street. Since the owners of this property applying
for the vacation rental designation live and reside outside the state of Florida, They should apply requiring registration and Two statutes designate a local property manager. I ha I Know that they have a cleaning company. They do not have a property manager. They act as their own. They have a phone number to call them to take care of any issues, but I was under the understanding that
if you have a rental in Florida, you need to designate a property management company. In addition to complying with all these above conditions, this property is currently occupied and also still listed online as a vacation rental. Is this not a blatant violation of the recommended conditions on the conditional use review report that is awaiting action?
As I said a minute ago, you we they still have the right to rent their property. It just you know, and they can advertise it how much however they want.
Okay.
Um Did you say they were renting boats?
No. No. People the renters come and they bring boats. So we're hoping that If they do allow them to have an Airbnb, they'll have strict conditions that they need to be met. And if those conditions are not met, Who do we call? We want to have someone that we can say, hey, this condition is not being met. They're not following the rules, because I, as a homeowner in that neighborhood, know how difficult it
is to get code enforcement or the Pasco Sheriff's Office. They're shorthanded and this is not one of their high priority items. So once if we do end up with it in our neighborhood, we want to be able to at least have conditions on the number of cars. We want
to have an opportunity to ask you a question if we need to and you're way beyond your time. So you think you covered it all?
I think I did.
Okay. Thank you. And are there questions from up here?
I have one quick question. Do you live is this a deed restricted community?
No, it is not.
So you have you do not have your own HOA, correct? No,
we do not.
No C D there?
We do not.
So you depend on the county for code enforcement issues. Okay. Um You indicated that the individuals sho uh who are renting this property show up with boats. Is that correct?
No. Yeah, the people that rent, when they come in, they rent currently to eight. They rent they they're able to rent to eight people.
Okay, but I'm I think that's the same thing.
So yeah, they show up with boats. They bring boats.
And where do they park the boats at?
They put the boats in over at the boat ramp, which is currently only at half capacity, anyways, and they bring Bring them around to the canal and they tie them up to their dock, their floating dock.
More than once sometimes.
But you just said it was not at full capacity. So how's that a problem?
No, I mean the boat ramp is not at full capacity. Oh okay.
But they could leave the boats on the trailers at the boat dock.
No. No. No. They put they take the vote the renters come to the rental, they bring their boats with them. They take their boats over to the bo public boat ramp over by Sam's on the beach, They put their boats in the water, they bring them around up our canal and tie them off to the boat to the boat dock.
What do they do with the trailers?
They park it in the yard, they park it in the grass, they park it at the neighbors, they don't that's what I'm saying, they don't really care where it goes.
Well we
park them along the street.
Okay, but these there's no yard for this house.
Okay.
And if the park if the if the parking only has space for four cars and you have four cars and two boats The boats end up in the vacant lot across the street. Or in the neighbors that's only there one weekend out of a month. What what happens if your neighbor does that as an owner? Сю джампова. They don't. Yeah.
So have you had any contact with the owners of this property regarding some of these issues?
No, this house personally has only been rented for just a very few months. It was just built. So it was only rented from April to August is the only amount of time that it was rented.
So the property owner testified that she makes her contact information available. So are you do you have She's in Massachusetts? Do you have her contact info though?
I have her telephone number.
Okay. Have you tried contacting her with any of these issues?
Um like I said, the issues that we had were only during scalloping season this. Past year and no, I haven't personally called her. No, I did not. But but with her other house, yes, I had, because they also owned the house on the other side of the the house that they built, and that was an Airbnb for many years across the street from me.
So when you contacted her with the previous property, did you feel like the issues were addressed after
you
spoke with her?
No, we had kids on the roof of the house.
What what was the response you got from the
Um We'll take care of it? And then we went to the house where the adults were inside the house and said, Your kids are playing on your roof. And they said, It's okay, they're down now. And that was pretty much the extent of it. But my thing is if we if there's an emergency, calling Massachusetts isn't gonna get anything done. They need someone local. In I'm sorry, but I don't know that the cleaning company is gonna
be responsible if we call because there's too much noise.
Okay. If there's no other questions, let's let's hear the next person. Okay. Thank you very much.
Who's next?
Yeah. Person's name is Charles I'm gonna kid Vichit Vichitki. Vichika.
Yeah. Right. Must be afternoon by now. Good morning and good afternoon. Thank you for letting me come speak. Um I live at [address removed]. in uh Hudson, Florida. I am have been sworn in. So and your name is say your name for the record please. Charles Vichica. Okay, thank you. Okay. Um
One of the issues I'd like to address is They built the house and they're saying well we have to rent it to pay for it. Well, I retired after thirty four years of law enforcement. I bought the piece of property And I didn't build a house until I could pay for it. And because I didn't want to disturb the neighborhood and rent it. So now we have people coming in and saying, Well and they owned a house before and I believe the lady had a hotel something license in Florida. So she should have been aware
about Airbnbs and getting permission. to rent them. So I waited. I built And I didn't disturb anybody in the neighborhood 'cause I wanted to live in a neighborhood on a dead end street and quiet. Uh now you're asking us to give up that for somebody that wants to rent it so that they can live there in the future at some time. Also, there was there's at least three long-term rentals on that block. The one that lived
next to me was they tried to short term it for a while. I had a lady to try to burn the house down next to my house. She put a load of fireworks on the stove and lit it because she wanted to burn the house. She wasn't happy. With the neighborhood and the owners. I had another one when they came in and we had a drug person come in, and next thing you know, you had motorcycles and drug people in the neighborhood. They want long term rental and we've had no problems with long term rental and they're apparently have no
problem in meeting their budgets and paying their taxes too, but long-term rentals. We have three in the neighborhood, and we've had no problem with those three with the long-term rentals. It's the short-term rentals we always had problems with. The house that they're talking about? Yes, they brought the boats in and when they first come in they leave the boats and the trailers on the side because there's no place for them to put them at their property. There's no room. I had to drive up on the grass to get by to get to
my house. And I believe municipal code requires That they get
um company
to handle Any problems that may come because they're out of state personnel and I believe that's in the municipal code. Yeah. Using people that clean the house as though that's the contact. I don't believe that that re is required by the as in the municipal code. So You know, I can go on and on. But we live there. Our animals lived there, our children lived there. And
numerous times Uh recently I'm coming down the street and there's a black Jeep coming up that was at the wanted to rental that rental property. and I had to he wouldn't move to the left or to the right. And on that occasion I had to move over into the grass with my car. Lucky there was a grass for me to do that. So you're gonna put an An extra burden on a short term Uh Yeah. Then the neighborhood can handle. The
street is narrow, It's an old street. I think it even says it in the paperwork that it's a it's a narrow, substandard street. And so you c I I think by allowing mass introduction of persons and people It's not gonna be Good for the neighborhood. Even though it's in R four that as
It was not to take away from the single family residency. And all the people that are here are registered voters that live there. This person that wants to rent doesn't live here. And it's not a registered voter, but
That the state law says Uh You can't totally deny short term rentals, but you can put in restrictions that are needed.
Thank you very much. Appreciate you coming up. Okay. Thank you. Any questions? No? Okay. Anyone next? Denise.
I don't have anyone else who's signed up to speak.
Okay.
Does the code require them to have a local property manager?
I'm looking through the code and I don't see where it states that it's required. Um there are sections that talks about in the registration section, for example, it talks about the property owner and management company of applicable, but I don't see where it says that there's a requirement for a management company.
Okay. Is there any definition in our code of like transient lodging?
Mm, what do you mean, John? Well what what makes the difference between A hotel. A short term rental Um
Well the big difference is It w hotels usually nightly. Yeah, the short term rentals are The ones I always had were typically a minimum of a week, usually two weeks.
It's Yeah. In my mind at some point you're in this grey area between what's a residential property and what's a commercial Operation. Um So I was just curious if the code attempted to address that or not.
All right. Um is the If the owner's still online, would they like to Respond to some of the questions.
I'm sure the uh people like the hear some of their feelings and answers on Some of these things like uh Like parking. Pants.
Uh the number of persons, property management. How they feel about those things.
Um sure, we we'd love to provide our feedback and our responses. Um We recognize that that um what all three of our neighbors have identified were related to that week during scallop season, um, where there were where unbeknownst to us our our guests that we had hosted were inviting other people and and those people were bringing boats. Today is the first time that I've heard the true ex extent of that issue, even when we met um with Genie
on the street that day and chatted about it. I didn't um fully appreciate the the number of boats and disruption and the number of people. Um this is why, as part of our conditional use application, we've decided to eliminate renting during scallop week to avoid um the kind of attraction that would happen during that week. Um, which I believe will will one reduce the number of people at the property. We're only gonna rent it to eight people at a time. And so without renting
during scallop week, it won't be attracting the friends and family network. I think this will also address the boat issue. Obviously a scallop week, it's a boating week, and those people won't come coming with boats. We can certainly address the trailer issue. We always during that week we encourage people to use the marina. And we can make that if anyone decides, asks if they can travel with a boat, we will tell them they can't
park the trailer at the property. They'll have to find someplace else to put the trailer and it can't be on, you know. in the neighborhood or on the street. That that's um in my opinion uh an easy fix now that we know the extent of the problem. Um I think that also addresses like the the traffic and things of that nature. We don't allow pets. Um there's no pets allowed at our property. Um
The the only time we allow a pet um is if someone's gonna be staying for 30 days at a time. Um in those kinds of situations where we're pet owners ourselves, we know it's tough to leave your pet for, um it's easy to leave a pet for a week, it's hard to leave a pet for more than a week. So if you're there for 30 days at a time, we do allow them to bring a pet, but we do have limits on the number of pets and we do ask a lot of questions about the nature of the animal and the size, and we
do some pretty specific screening to make sure that the people who are renting from us meet our requirements. I come from a law enforcement background. I have 20 years, over 20 years of experience in law enforcement, and I understand some of the challenges and concerns. And I do a great deal of pre-screening through the Airbnb and VRBO applications, asking lots of questions before we agree to rent the property. Um
Um, oh, and I think the other question was about the property manager, and I think this sort of dovetails nicely. Um We we understand what the neighbors are saying about the um you know who's who's gonna respond right away. I think it's unfortunate that our neighbors have never given us the opportunity to address the issue. Um nobody called us during SCOLP week to tell us that this was happening, so we didn't really have a chance to to prove ourselves. And I think we deserve that chance. Our concern with
turning it over to a property manager is that now it becomes completely out of our control and we have to rely on a property manager to take care of our property, which my husband and I don't feel particularly comfortable with. They're not gonna take care of the property or the neighborhood the same way that we would. And it we would just appreciate that opportunity to to do so. I'm happy to answer your questions.
Uh what about parking?
Um with the limit of eight people at the property, conceivably we should have no more than four cars in the driveway. And we can fit those cars very comfortably in the current driveway that we have.
So you're gonna limit limit limit them to more no more than four cars?
Yes, well we can uh make that limit of no more than four cars. So I think that's uh I think that's appropriate.
Okay. Um
I think um you know I'm just one person here, but I I I do think It's it'd be important for you to have whether you call 'em a property manager or something else. you need somebody that you can c call upon They can handle complaints in immediately. Nobody wants to wait a week. to have an owner respond and you can't respond from Massachusetts. in the same way somebody on site here could respond. I personally I think it'd be a good idea for you
uh and and for and for the neighbors for to have somebody H l here locally. They don't have to be living in that neighborhood, but it could be. That could uh r respond if there was a problem. Yeah, you could have a water break, you could have lots of things go on and the really
Dealt with lots of vacation rentals, so I know the problems that can come up.
And you know, personally Um we didn't allow any pets. You know, they can cause damage to the house. There's lots of reasons why and Um I I can tell you that if it was mine I wouldn't allow any pets. You don't you you really don't know what you're getting. Had an N. Even if V R B O or Air B and B if they're asking asking the questions. I I you know, I just wouldn't I wouldn't be com comfortable with that. You know, you have a boat dock, am I right? My
upper easy dog, so
keep their trailers and stuff out of there. I don't think there there should be any complaints about somebody tying a boat up to an existing dock. You know, I don't I don't know why anybody would react to that. Um
And then you know, so and then the only other c comment I had was the number of persons Make sure that
That uh You know, you didn't exceed the number of people that can sleep in that home.
Um
So What I from what I understand, you're willing to um
Limited. They use two fo no more than four cars. On the property. And they have to be parked. in the driveway or under the I guess under the under the carport. What about your what about the pet situation?
Yeah, we would definitely limit it to four cars. I mean it if it's the r request of the commission that we don't allow pets, we can certainly we can certainly implement that.
Okay. Um We we talked about boats. Yeah, you're gonna limit the uh any parking of of boats or any trailers or anything like that. On the property. They have to be if it's a boat, it's got to be in the water on the dock. Tied up to the dock.
Yeah. Yes, sir. Um any boats brought to the property would need to be tied up to the dock. Otherwise they can't be parked in the neighborhood.
Okay. And what are your thoughts about a I'll call him rather than a property manager, I'll call him a contact person.
Sure, we can look into that. In fact, our our cleaning people do uh run a property management business in addition to their cleaning service. Um we've talked to them in the past about bringing them on as a property manager. If that's something that the Planning Commission recommends as part of the condition we'll use, um we have no issue with um you know formalizing that relationship with them.
Just to remember that if they are proper managing property and being paid to manage property, they need to be licensed. So
Yes, I believe they're fully licensed as well, but I will confirm that before we we move into any sort of relationship
Okay. Because if they're being paid then they're your agent.
And agents. Handling real real property are required to be licensed. Mm.
Anybody else having a question?
I think sir, if I could just um make one quick um um comment um if our prop if our cleaning folks are not properly licensed, our our next step would would probably have to go with something like a Vicassa or something like that. Um which I which I know is not gonna be
helpful to anyone. So we'll have to do some digging. I just would ask that if that's a condition, that we get a little bit of time to sort that out. Because I know if we should get approved, I think we only have 30 days to implement. And I think that might take a little more time to do the right interviewing to find the right person.
I think the chairman was just looking for at least a contact, someone that's local local on the ground that can handle any issues that comes up. So Even if it's not a formal property management
Yeah. If they are being paid to manage the property.
But if they are paid to manage it,
then they have to
do it.
Then they need a license.
okay. I understand better now. Thank you.
Yeah, sixty days or something like that for that purpose. But Again, I'm I'm just one vote. I'm just making comments thing notes that I made that are Concerning your neighbors, I have they I think they have the uh the right to quiet enjoyment of their property and I've done Let's say I've done this tiny kind of property a lot in the past. I think it can be done right. And uh I think if you follow these guidelines I think it's gonna go a long way to To make a difference to your neighbors.
They have a quick somebody. on hand they can quickly call if there's a problem. And not respond. So
And I'm sure you'll be a great neighbor when you finally move down here. How long is it gonna be? How long do you think?
We'd like to s we'd like to be sooner sooner than later, but it's um it's hard to say. I we're we're we're just turning fifty, so we still have a few games left.
Okay. Well Yeah. You get maybe you hit the lottery or something yeah.
We can hope. Maybe Powerball.
Okay, great. Any other questions from up here?
Mr. Chair, I have a I have a question because I I think I heard um Miss Clemente Rutman state that she was not going to rent during scallop week, and that's something that she was willing to add as a condition of approval. Right. Um, which is not in your conditions of approval right now. However, when I looked at At scallop week, there's no such thing as scallop week. It's scallop season, which is a total of ten days. Right. And it basically usually starts the third Friday in July. So I just wanted to clarify that for the Planning Commission members.
Right, that would that be.
Right, it could change, but that's it's not a week. It's And that's specifying that it's Pasco County scallop season, right? Yeah, because it's Pasco
County scallop season. Yeah. Right. So it's against state law to bring them across the county line through the water.
So M Ms. Clemente, I mean are you um if you include that as a condition then you're aware that perhaps that scallop season could become a month or or longer in the future.
Uh yes, sir. We would comply with whatever um the scallop season is listed on the the website and then just adjust our catar calendar accordingly.
Okay.
Okay.
Good. Anything else from up here?
I just wanna clarify one I assume by discussion about boats that that would be trailer boats. Yeah. So that someone could bring kayaks obviously on their vehicle. Yeah. Yeah. So I just want to clarify that. Powered boats. Yeah. Okay.
Okay. Great. Any other questions or concerns? Is that a form of a motion? Right.
I don't know if you can make a motion, Mr. Chair, but I I'd move approval with those conditions. Well
can we get Denise to or somebody to recite the conditions because I I need to make sure that's officially part of the motion.
Okay, so that certainly these are things we need to work on language. Um, so as I understand it, it's to add these conditions, which is prohibiting uh vacation rentals during Pasco County scallop season, as demonstrated in the in the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission website, because that's where you'll find that. Um the other one had to do with um limiting no more than four cars in the driveway. Or limiting no more than four cars and they must be parked in
the driveway. Um and then the last one had to do with uh having a local representative Available. Um on to uh to answer questions or deal with any complaints.
So it's certainly I have to do it.
Potential concern of the last one. How would the public know who the representative is. I mean does it have to be posted some or is it I don't know how they would Just because they've designated one doesn't mean that the neighbors would know who it is. So so where is that gonna be published or Is it gonna be on the door or is it gonna be where are they gonna put that? We have a registry
do we have a registry of these online where the public can go see?
It is not online, but we can make it online. So if we're online
and that contact person were listed for that particular short term rental, that'd probably be helpful.
Yeah.
I or IT department and
Necessarily suggesting that you have to put all the burden on Denise. I mean you could put it on the applicant. I mean you could make the applicant post it somewhere on the site
too. The applicant advertised on the on V RBO or Airbnb, you may have to listen
I'm
posting.
A little hesitant about that because I don't want to impose impose a a sign sign in a residential neighborhood.
Right. But if it's listed publicly online for the the listing of the property.
Mm-hmm. Or it's not a good thing.
So all the signs are required under our code are going to be internal. You know, they they have to be posted on the doors but internally to the unit. Right. That's
what I mean. I'm I'm hesitant to impose some exterior signage the in what's supposed to look like a residential property and now I got a sign. Well it makes it look commercial.
Why don't we do it the same way we notify 'em on a property zoning just Anybody within five hundred feet, uh five five hundred foot radius. The owner is responsible for sending out the notification of who that person is. That that would be
But a what if that person changes?
So
I should do it each time.
Providing a side neighbor.
No, I'm sorry. Nothing from the public.
Okay, and also um I think they said that they agreed that they would uh prohibit pets.
And this is in addition to the recommended conditions on the
Slight comment to the Mr. Chairman Mariano. service animals. Like if somebody's There may be Federal prohibitions on you. Correct. Prohibiting. seeing eye dogs, et cetera.
Yeah, I understand that. Which brings up another interesting subject, not to get off track here, but I would advise the owners To check with the Americans with Disabilities Act because at some point you're bordering on what's a residential home, a dwelling which is exempt from the ADA, and what is transient lodging which is not exempt from the ADA. And you may be required to do all kinds of things to your home. I don't know where that line is. I
can tell you I'm gonna go when I get back to my office I'm gonna research it.
Uh oh. We
opened up a can of
worms there. Well regardless of the
Well I'm not making that a condition. Yeah, I'm not thinking it needed to be a condition of approval. But If you have a You can do that, but just make sure you have an exception for I don't know what the right term is, if it's registered service animals or I think there's a process you can go through to get a service animal to be
Yeah,
there should be some record of it.
I think you need some kind of prescription to get a little bit of a little bit of a little That type of animal. I just don't know what the right phrase is.
Why is that? Because you just go buy a little jacket and put it on your dog and it says I'm a security dog's you know Well well whatever it is and they walk in the store with it.
But we could do better than publics and I mean I think there is a process to have a legitimate service animal. It's codified in Flora Statute.
So Floor statute four one three dot oh eight uh defines a service animal as an animal to be trained to perform tasks for an individual with a disability. What are they required to be registered? That's the question.
Well
Now on the board, Denise can probably we can figure that out what the process is. I just wanted to make sure we're talking about Official Understood. Registered service animals, not somebody who just puts on a jacket. That's what it says.
Right.
Other than that, I I think it's I think we pretty much covered it.
So is that your
motion, Mr. Pottlet?
Yes. Mo motion to approve with those seconds.
Then I will second
it.
Sure, you have to make it difficult to do it. Well, Denise is the one that wrote down all the conditions, but do you want Denise to reread all the conditions?
Well with the added stuff that was added when you type it, I don't know how you want it to type the official emotion.
So I I'd move we approve the application with the conditions already stated in the application along with the conditions that Ms. Ronanda has read.
That's why I'm asking do you need a copy of what you're doing? Mr. And is red. Okay. All right.
And
they still second that.
Okay. Hey.
So that's Claire's mud.
We have a we have a motion and a s and a second. Is there any further discussion of the motion or clarification of the motion?
If not. All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like sign? Okay, motion carries. All right, I hope that helps everyone. Uh and uh gets gets us to a point where we are being fair with everyone.