Request to Declare Surplus Real Property and Approve Agreement for Sale and Purchase of Surplus Real Property – 2101 Holiday Drive, Holiday – Habitat for Humanity of Pinellas County, Inc. – No Funding Required

55:27I'll tell you the future is bright with citizens like that. Congratulations again. Okay. Now we're going to get to the consent agenda. I have two items. And one is pulled to discuss C fourteen. And C fifteen has been withdrawn. Are there any other polls from the consent agenda?

55:47Move approval all uh items left on the uh consent agenda. Okay.

55:53Do we have a second? Second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. Commissioner Weightman, C 14.

56:01Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I pulled this item just as a philosophical. principal. I don't believe that the county should be giving or selling any of the public assets for one dollar. And Uh I appreciate I went through and had talked with Mr. Karbala and I appreciate all the the process in which these surplus properties are. Or measured against and checking the box to make sure that there's not, you know, an additional internal use for that

56:31piece of property. But just out of out of sake of taking a public asset uh and selling it for a dollar, I just philosophically dis disagree with that. So that's the only reason why I I pulled that item.

56:44Mr. Chairman Mariano. Uh Commissioner Oakley.

56:46I'm not aware we sold any properties for a dollar, so that'd be good to know. But I know we do have surplus property that that we don't use at times but I expect us to sell it for the value of Of that property not necessarily given it. Not for

57:02pro not for profit. So,

57:04not for profit are some of those issues where you give those away.

57:08So um I'll be happy to address this. Um, yeah, so we are we're taking these properties that um have come to us through say foreclosures and liens and offering them to nonprofits to build workforce housing. Um and so in my opinion this is a very important Um neighborhood revitalization tool that we have. Um And if we didn't and we just

57:38started this a few months ago. And so um I think it's a great program and th this is this is my drug street, really, Holiday Drive. And if we can uh turn that street around with some better housing on it, the whole neighborhood's better for it. I don't think this would be worth more than ten I d I didn't look at the What they say it's worth Um These investments are are really good for the county in my opinion. So w what we're doing is taking

58:09Uh when we go to surplus these um lots um which are alwa typically in not the best neighborhoods. Um it it goes to the non profits first and they can I don't know if they if they bid on it or how that if it's a rotating circle and maybe Kathy Pearson can discuss that but Um We make it available to those who are oh here comes someone who can. Those who are building uh in the um Workforce Affordable Housing Arena.

58:39Only so

58:42Yes, I can Andrew Baxter, Facilities Management Director. Uh I can elaborate a little bit on the process. So once a What's a house? Uh Has not had taxes paid on it, which is the case for this particular house. It goes through a legal court process, which then if nobody buys that tax deed, it then esheets to the county. It becomes county land when it we had no desire for it to be ours,

59:12but it then became ours. hours. And so through our surplus disposition process, which the board approved several years ago. We've identified this property as needing to be surplused. Um we also have worked through a process by which we Enable those those potential properties that are viable for habitat or other housing programs. To be vetted And this property

59:43fits the bill in that case. And so that brings us to where we are today. that this property and every single property has is unique. And so we always take a look at the properties to ensure we're maximizing the use. for the county's benefit. In this particular case, it did meet all the criteria for the Habitat program, and so that's why we're bringing it to you in this way.

1:00:10What I'd like to bring up is something that happened to us not too long ago that That we had to do. Surplus piece of property and giving it to uh I don't know if it's feeding Tampa Bay or or one of those Velmas. We gave it to 'em as a five oh one C three and they took and instead of using that building they turned around and sold that building for several hundred thousands of dollars. And it's gone. The county didn't reap any benefit for it, even for five O One C threes that could use it.

1:00:41And then they reach out to ask for us for more money but I think we are to have property we give to 501 C3s. If they're not used by that 511C3. see three? that property should revert back to the county so we can find a use for it that is a five oh one C three that we use that property rather than let it go in to sale and and just, you

1:01:09We have taken that that feedback from prior series of events. And in this one we do have a reversionary clause. There's a restrictive covenant that Habitat will construct an affordable home on the property within five years. Um if not then it we can terminate and

1:01:27it's there on uh page two. Um but I'm hoping that this will be the beginning of Something new for that area that is directly behind the Wawa in US nineteen.

1:01:38Yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna agree with Commissioner Weightman as far as um We should look at this as an asset to the county. We should find out what the market is. There's more than one nonprofit out there anyway, and if they think it's worth ten, fifteen, twenty, whatever it may be, Um I think it's something we should do because You know, we our citizens want us to do the most responsible thing for the money and if it's gonna save taxes for down the road, by by doing that, I'm okay with it. I think a nonprofit, if they're all gonna bid you know, any one of them bids on it, they could bid a dollar, they

1:02:08could bid ten dollars, they could bid a thousand dollars. But if one picks it over another one And they want it that m that much more, it's gonna be pretty much going to affordable anyway. So we're not we're not changing that effect. We're just gonna put a little bit more money into our tax base.

1:02:22What what is the process um after we uh send it out for surplus to is it first come, first serve or how how was how how do they pick? 'Cause we we have a list. Uh that we vetted um for those who can um get the property.

1:02:38Yes, so we have th first we the the surplus process first sees if there's any internal governmental use within Pasco County. It could be used as a stormwater pond area or any other use that it might be. Then once we identify that there is no county need

1:02:56Because you so you send it out to every department. We send it to the

1:02:59department first. Then once we determine nope there is no county need. Then we send it out to this a this list of predefined housing uh centric non profits and we give them a a window to respond. In this case, the the respondent was Habitat for Humanity.

1:03:22Okay. So but other we've surplused to other nonprofits as well.

1:03:26There you yes, there are I I will need to give you that list, but there are more than one. Um I

1:03:33think that would be great if you could email that list to all the commissioners just so they they know how this program works.

1:03:43um to the nonprofit agencies. We copy all the board members and the staff so that you are aware that we have now kind of hit this next milestone in a surplus property disposition.

1:03:55So this this property I someone just texted me is worth uh about thirteen thousand dollars, though someone looked at the criminal history on that street. Uh I don't know. There's been a lot of shootings and things. But uh I I would say to you that building a house, it's mostly mobile homes on there. Uh so an old mobile homes, but building a house uh on this neighborhood is the beginning of greater tax revenue on a street that

1:04:25really needs a redo. So Commissioner

1:04:27Weightman thank you. And I agree with All of your points, Commissioner Starkey and my my reason for pulling this item has nothing to do with bettering our community, fixing blighted neighborhoods, supporting housing projects. Uh the mere reason for pulling this is just I I think it's wrong that we take a public asset that has value and we know it has value of more than a dollar. and uh in in and selling it for that. And I appreciate, you know, again the

1:04:57county's process and in vetting these properties and what they're worth. Uh the email that came that came out actually is what caught my attention. I think that's two of 'em. And uh media responded back to Mr Cobala or whoever, hey, I I don't necessarily agree with letting a property go for a dollar because, you know, every dollar we can take in, it it would allow us to, you know, go fix a slide at a park, go and do, you know, whatever projects that we need. Uh, you know, it's hard to get anything for a dollar

1:05:28these days. Uh so I I just philosophically disagree with letting a county asset go for One dollar.

1:05:36And I'll say that. One thing you mentioned, Andrew, they may not even build us property for five years. So I think just like in a real estate transaction, when you take an offer from somebody, let them make an offer, whatever it may be. They may say we're gonna build it in a year, which is a lot more value. They may say two years, three years, whatever the terms are, let's find out how they're gonna build, what they're gonna go build. and what the price will pay. And then we can take a look at what offer do we want to accept, just like a regular business might do.

1:06:02We c we can tweak the the interaction with the with the non profits in that way that would create the a little bit of Competition? Dude. to force them to give different ideas for how fast they could uh build something or w whatever those different aspects could be. Ultimately it's the board's decision. Um for for m moving forward and it is state statute that allows you to do this as well. Um you know it says f state

1:06:33statute uh one twenty five thirty eight for the purposes of promoting community interest and welfare um the applicant for such price whether nominal or otherwise as such board may affix.

1:06:45So I'm gonna speak up again because I'm gonna tell you that

1:06:51along with many counties Has a real problem with affordable housing. And this is a wonderful way. For the county to help build um That stock. So um you know when Habitat for Humanity was building homes there on Leisure Lane, they were losing money on every house? And they paid ten thousand dollars for those lots. So Um They ha they they ended up pulling out. uh uh of that area. Now there's some other issues

1:07:21there because they they're on It's in a flood zone. I just think that the benefit to the county is greater than Um thirteen thousand dollars. So

1:07:32and and to discuss the habitat f not since you brought it out, over Leisure Lane in Van Duren, it is built up as far as it's a flood zone. They had to build the structures up had to spend twenty, thirty, forty grand more and it it it cost infeasible. What we need to do is look at that whole area to make it better. So that's a separate item. But I I th I do uh appreciate Commissioner Weightman bringing this forward because Every bit that we save our taxpayers is what we should be doing. And if it is going to make it, as Andrew just said, more a little more competitive with everybody looking at it. And it couldn't even it doesn't even have to be just our

1:08:02list. I think it should be thrown out there like an regular RFP. Let's go see who wants to bid on it, throw it out there in the public so everybody gets to look at, not just a few select people we have, 'cause there's other nonprofits that want to build as well that aren't established in the county. Going through the regular procedures.

1:08:17No, I'm gonna disagree with that.

1:08:19Commissioner Weightman.

1:08:21I love our state, you know, generational Floridian here. Fantastic legislature, but

1:08:27they gotta defend

1:08:28it.

1:08:31Doesn't necessarily mean it's all right to do it. So I appreciate you providing that cover. Uh I'm going to respectfully. Disagree with that.

1:08:44Commissioner

1:08:44Bradford.

1:08:45Yeah, we need an Amen out of the pastor on that one.

1:08:50Um is there a time certain are you in your thought process, is there a time certain uh for these uh properties like two years, three years, four years, or are you gonna let the market uh determine?

1:09:06So my experience, you know, great experience, Commissioner Oakley did too, and Chairman uh on the Swift Mutt Governing Board. You know, surplus properties uh were put out. Uh had the market value put on it, they went out to bid and either sold for what the market value was or highest bidder. And those properties were immediately recouped back into Land acquisition trust fund or what have you to go in and purchase other environmentally sensitive lands or different water mitigation projects with within those

1:09:37properties. And I very much appreciated that policy and the principle of how those funds uh came and went. It always kept something going on in the coffers. And uh there's there's value in that. And, you know, they're selling for a fair price. These properties aren't selling for you know, buku way over the top market prices, but you're recouping fair market value for the taxpayer investment. And then you're allowing that taxpayer investment, which if you do it right, property

1:10:07values go up, right? So a little bit more comes back in and then you allow value for your next public Uh your next public project, uh, because there's a little more money in there. So you know, having that experience and and seeing seeing these I I just, uh, philosophically just disagreed with letting any property go for a dollar. Again, it has nothing to do with the organization and what their mission is. I just We're entrusted this board's entrusted in managing the public fund. in

1:10:38making sure we're making a smart investment for the public. I know I wouldn't sell any of my property for a dollar, therefore I feel it's r it's incumbent upon me as a Representative on this board. If I wouldn't do it for myself or my household, I c I can't do that with other public money property.

1:10:55So um I would say and I agree philosophically that we are stewards of the public money. And um I would say if we didn't do the program that we're doing here. Someone's gonna buy that lot for thirteen thousand dollars and move an old nasty trailer on there. Uh and that's cause that's what's in the neighborhood right now. I've seen it happen in the holiday over and over again. And so if we wanna start turning that uh community around Um

1:11:26We need to uh do better and we'll we'll get more tax revenue. from a newly built home on that street. than we would uh an older mobile home being towed and plopped on there, which is what the neighborhood is full of. So I think this is a better investment for the taxpayers of Pasco County. Plus it gives someone who needs uh affordable housing an opportunity.

1:11:54Commissioner Oakley.

1:11:56Uh and looking at this, how do we approve this? Are we changing the way we've doing things? Have you got a direction from what we're talking about here now? Or do you need a motion? Change in something?

1:12:08Mm n no sir. Well the you know the department's um recommendation is is what you see in front of you to surplus it for the one dollar nominal fee. Um So we're to vote this down?

1:12:23No. I'm gonna make a most

1:12:27way to go right now. Why

1:12:28would we not want to better than they're

1:12:30gonna do that?

1:12:35I could just just chime in real quick. So yeah, the the issue before you is is this this particular parcel and sale as as uh Mr. Baxter has presented. Uh philosophically there are a number of notes that that I've made, right? We have different policy goals for assuming things. This board decides what that policy is and we we will implement that policy. So um I I I do think that the real estate team and the the county as a whole take pieces of property on an individual basis. They do look um at,

1:13:06you know, for example, we we sold utility land to Rooker for quite a profit. Right. And and we've reinvested that back in back into the county. So we are thoughtful in that approach. I think team recognized that this particular piece in this particular area. for for what Habitat wanted to do. It seemed to align with our affordable housing goals and so we've we've pushed down the path that we have. Whether we sell it to them for a dollar, whether we sell it to them for ten thousand, thirteen thousand dollars. Um I think I've made some notes here that we can perhaps look at

1:13:36some adjustments to our policy and still meet the board's overall intended goals and we can bring that back to you as far as this matter before you. Yeah, I I I need you to decide and tell me what to do. So

1:13:46And couldn't the

1:13:47public have

1:13:48bought it?

1:13:50All right. And bear in mind too, this property is sheeted to the county, right? So it's one thing if we invest taxpayer dollars. To purchase said property. But when it is sheets, liens, taxes, everything is canceled. So it's coming to us. With a clean title. And so this is Really nothing borrowed, nothing gained here, you know. It's that that's kinda how we looked at it. So what

1:14:12might be good to do is if it's clearly gonna be defeated to be sold for a dollar at this point from what I can see, it might be good to put the recommendation in after that to say We want to go put it on the market. We want to see a single family home built. We're going to take an offer into whatever we are going to do and whatever terms you're going to do for the future. But let's go address the issue. For the item first on C fourteen right now.

1:14:36I'll make motion to deny.

1:14:40I'll second the motion. Okay, we've got a second from Mr. Bradford. Commissioner Bradford. Any further discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed?

1:14:53Four to one? That's interesting. Four to one. Okay. Now, Commissioner Weightman, do you want to make a motion as far as what you want to see done in the future?

1:14:59Yes, so with this with this item. Uh I think this item it's a little bit more than a little bit

1:15:08Obviously I think this board wants to see good intentions for this property, for this county asset. So Uh I guess I mean did From my understanding, I could be wrong, maybe I misinterpreted, but if there was no public ability to uh make an offer on this on this property Uh again I refer back to my experience at Swift Mud. There's always an opportunity for the public to participate in any publicly owned land to make a bid. on something and either it fits criteria

1:15:38or it doesn't. So Uh I don't know if it's if we're not going to be able to do put this into like the Chairman said, a a formal RFP process, but I think it's important that nonprofits and and whatnot, you know, play a role. Maybe it's a it's a if you're a not profit like Habtat, maybe you score higher on an R F P or something. You know, there's there's different criteria For R F projects and packages, but Again, um, you know, thank you for the board for supporting the the one dollar issue. Uh

1:16:08certainly was not my intent to Um deny affordable housing in any way. So I don't policy discussions more than what was

1:16:20should we um give it give it to you to bring back to us With a way we're not going to be able to do Should have this in the future rather than just a dollar.

1:16:30Well I think I think let me give let me just have one opportunity to just share W we have a a pretty good methodology already. Okay. We have five options available to us for the for the disposition of county owned land. In our already existing, and it's actually a subsection of the purchasing ordinance that we have, which discusses the surplus of county property. Um so we can do a public bid sale. We can do a private sale if it's an adjacent Ownership.

1:17:02We can do an alternative disposition method, which is typically done. If we've gone through one of the other processes and we need to kind of go to an alternative process and that's usually managed through Um posting it and then watching the bid price finally reach a point where somebody says, yes, I want to buy that. We have option D, which is the conveyance to a governmental entity. Um which we've done in the past and we've done that in the past for free. Um or to a

1:17:32non profit entity. Um and option E is exchange of real property is another option that we have available to us. It's really just choosing the right fit. And I'll tell you It's

1:17:47To y to your point, Commissioner Weightman. Almost I would say ninety-five percent of all of our previous dispositions, which we do Several of them a year. um have been either some sort of a fee is associated with it. And it's typically driven by a by a market uh public bid sale. Um we do have a couple every now and again that meet the right criteria and this one just happened to meet all the right criteria. For for a nonprofit

1:18:17disposition. So we really do try to look at that. We can take this one based on the board's direction here and use one of these other methodologies that we already have in in place and I think that's what we're bringing back to us. Okay.

1:18:34Ms. Mr Kabal explained to me as we were talking about this prior to the board meeting. It's a very good and thorough checklist uh when you go to surplus the county asset or who what department might needs it. So I think I think that piece of it is is sound. I think you all do a good job. uh in in being very thorough and in understanding what you're doing with that that piece of property. So I I very much appreciate that. I just again Philosophically for a dollar I just Uh I couldn't

1:19:05do it.

1:19:06So if I could we're gonna end this conversation and uh we got a couple items that are very important we gotta bring up. Uh Andrew if you would you've you've got and commission uh Mike uh Mike you've heard all the feedback you can I'm sure you can bring back something to us. What you've done has been great. But I think Commissioner Weightman brought up a great idea as far as uh just a little different approach coming up. So thank you. Um Mr. Cronin is here.

1:19:34Oh Mike? Okay, Mike's gonna do it today? Okay. All right. If if you could, let's try to do this quick