Comprehensive Plan Amendment (Consent) - CPAS23(09) Karli Greenfield Road Industrial - Providing For A Small-Scale Comprehensive Plan Amendment To The Future Land Use Map (Map 2-15 And Sheet 05) Changing From ROR (Retail/Office/Residential) And AG/R (Agricultural/Rural) To IL (Industrial-Light), On Approximately 7.04 Acres Of Real Property Located At The Northwest Intersection Of US Highway 41 And Greenfield Road.

1:32:48Okay, what else? A P C ten?

1:32:50A P C ten.

1:33:18All right, I think we're ready. Right?

1:33:21I'm just waiting for the presentation to look.

1:33:27We need that music, I'm telling you. I know it. I agree.

1:33:46Good afternoon. Ebro Stevens Planning and Development. Before you is PDD 230445, a small-scale comprehensive plan amendment in the name of C Pass 2309-Carley Greenfield Road Industrial.

1:34:03The proposal is to amend the future land use map, map two-fifteen and sheet five. To change from ROR, Retail Office Residential, and AGR, Agricultural Rural, to I L, Industrial Light. This is to allow for light industrial uses on approximately 7.04 acres. The location is On the north side of Greenfield Road, northwest intersection of US

1:34:3341 and Greenfield Road. There is a accompanying rezoning from AC Agricultural District, C-1 Neighborhood Commercial District, and I-1 Light Industrial Park District to I-1.

1:35:01Thank you. Our site is located in the central market area.

1:35:08This is the aerial.

1:35:15Concept map, as you can see, there is a railroad on the western boundary of the property.

1:35:28Access currently is one on Greenfield Road as well as two access points on US 41.

1:35:38Just to note, the subject site is near the Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council area of interest, approximately 7,800 feet to the north and 2,000 feet to the south.

1:35:51The existing future land use as I mentioned before.

1:35:56A G R as well as R O R.

1:36:02Surrounding future land use, to the west and south we have AGR, and to the north and east we have R-O-R.

1:36:14The proposed future land use of I L.

1:36:22And zoning. AC Agricultural District, C1 Neighborhood Commercial District, and I1 Industrial Park District, as I mentioned before.

1:36:33The proposed amendment is consistent with the following comprehensive plan policies: Policy Flu 187, Economic Development, Policy Flu 1810, Preservation of Capacity for Employment Generating Uses, and Policy Flu 1101, Compatibility Review.

1:36:53And with that, staff recommend that the local planning agency find the proposed amendments consistent with the comprehensive plan and to recommend approval to the board of county commissioners. I will take any questions that you may have.

1:37:06Okay, do we have any questions? I have a quick question because I know Mr. Mooney has a longer question. So um w how close is this to the Seven Diamonds Commerce Park that we The Planning Commission just Recently approved.

1:37:28Yeah, yeah.

1:37:30Does maybe the applicant knows?

1:37:43I was gonna ask a question too before Mr. Moody.

1:37:46Quick

1:37:46question. Everybody

1:37:47wants to jump ahead

1:37:47of me. The T R T B R P C area of interest, what is that?

1:37:53The Tampa Bay regional The Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council area of interest.

1:38:07That's referring to the industrial study that the Regional Planning Council did. Okay. It's identified uh sites of interest for industrial development.

1:38:16Okay, thank you.

1:38:22Thank you. But but they didn't identify this I one property. As part of that. It's interesting.

1:38:29They missed it.

1:38:30Yeah.

1:38:33I have a question regarding the utility needs assessment.

1:38:37Do you believe we have utilities? Staff available for those questions, we had asked them to be

1:38:43Thank you.

1:38:45And can I answer the question as far as as the distance is concerned? So the um Seven Diamonds Mine is approximately three point two miles north of this location.

1:38:56Okay, and related to Mr. Moody's point. We were told that Seven Diamonds Mine would likely be unwell and septic, is my recollection.

1:39:04Mm. I haven't asked a question yet. Well We all know what your question is going to be. You do because I tipped you off. By the sunshine law I can't tip these guys off. Yes. Go ahead

1:39:19and ask

1:39:19your question now. So The utilities. analysis shows that there's zero MGD uncom uncommitted capacity at the Shady Hills wastewater treatment plant. It says that the existing flow is nine point six eight Mg D and the Current total outstanding commitments are 12.26 MGD. which far exceed total of capacity of fourteen

1:39:50MGD, those add up to twenty two.

1:39:54And then there's an explanation from utilities that says, well, today the flow is 9.68 MGD. and that we only commit the capacity when we actually apply to build a development, not when they come in for rezoning, not when they ask for a comprehensive plan amendment, actually when they commit. So that infers that they already have 12.26 MGD of actual committed capacity they've committed to. for actual applied for developments.

1:40:27But then it's not a little bit more than a little This kind of infers there's no need to worry because over the last couple of years they've only seen a point oh seven M G D per year increase in the flow. Well If you take twelve point two six MgD and you divide it by point zero seven Mg D per year, you're saying There's no need to worry because it's going to take 175 years before all these developments that have applied for permits actually

1:40:58exceed the flow. Well I don't think they're gonna take 175 years to build their projects. And they're saying they're only seeing a point oh seven MGD per year increase at the plant. So using the numbers straight out of the utilities manual at 75 gallons a day of wastewater per person. and two point six seven persons per ERU, that's only Point oh seven M G D is three hundred and fifty dwelling units.

1:41:28We've approved Way more than three hundred and fifty in the year that I've been here. And We know they're going up, they're popping up like mushrooms everywhere, so I'm hoping somebody can Maybe I'm misunderstanding something or maybe point oh seven is a Miss Written number or

1:41:51I'm sure Avery

1:41:52can answer that for

1:41:52us.

1:41:53So I think utilities should answer that question, but I do have a related question which is Are we confident that this site is going to be using county water and sewer or is it going to be like Seven Diamonds where The staff report says one thing and then the applicant gets up and says We're gonna be unwell and septic. I don't know why the staff report says that. So

1:42:14That's what I was gonna ask too, is what I'm saying.

1:42:16So I mean I this I have the same complaint. If that's the case, I have the same complaint I had about seven diamonds is Don't put all this information in there if it's going to be on well and septic. Tell us you'll be on well and septic.

1:42:27Well the the memo actually states that for sewer capacity it says sufficient capacity will be available for adequate wastewater treatment services through implementation of planned improvements.

1:42:37So then the question becomes when I mean I I'm not opposed to this project. I want to make sure that if they need utilities that the planned improvements are in the pipeline, we all know that it takes a while to design uh an expansion to a treatment facility, figure out what you're going to do with the effluent, acquire all of the state and federal permits that are necessary to do that and then find a contractor to construct it

1:43:09Are there planned improvements to well and septic tank?

1:43:12Well utilities department wouldn't put any of that analysis if they're on well and septic.

1:43:18Barbara Will Hight, sixty three twenty seven, Grand Boulevard. We're just at a Euclidean rezoning. Unlike an MPUD where we know what we're doing and we come here and say this is what we're doing, we're at a Euclidean zoning. There's a range of uses. We have not met with utilities department to t discuss any particular site plan. So I can't answer you Um But your questions should be answered by the utilities department. I just Don't can't tell you whether it what our use is gonna be and we'll meet with the utilities department and we'll decide if it's septic or sewer or um what it

1:43:48would be. So

1:43:49you have no idea of the intended use just yet? I do not.

1:43:54Well Barbara, but your other client had at least had some preliminary conversation, but that was at the Plan Amendment stage.

1:44:00It's 'cause it was a planned development M P U D specific uses. Yeah.

1:44:05But it the he but he at least knew where the closest point of connection was and knew that it wasn't going to be feasible to bring water and sewer that distance and so he was up front with us and said, I'll be on Well and Septic. So, yeah. Do we? I mean has anybody I'm not saying you, but is has our staff had any conversations with utilities about the closest point of connection to County water and sewer. I mean my annoyance is not necessarily with the applicant, my annoyance is Why

1:44:35do we talk about utility capacity but we don't talk about where the closest point of connection is?

1:44:42Well I'm not mistaken, Adolfo from Utilities is on and can speak to all of this.

1:44:47Okay.

1:44:50Hi. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and Commission Members. I'm Adolfa Gonzalez. I'm the Utilities Engineering Contract Management Director. With respect to Uh some of the questions you've asked. Uh the information as far as what the available capacity of the plant is in the uh the utility findings report, that's just based on what we have seen uh based on developments that have come in over the last few years. We just tracked The potential wastewater demand, and we just keep

1:45:20a cumulative running total of that, and that 0.07 MGD is just an average over the last, I believe, five or six years. It could be more than that. Uh, in terms of planning for a plant expansion, there's two processes that we're looking at. One is The commitment that the county provides the developer when they request a super connection to Pasco County's utilities service area. And that commitment says yes, but we'll provide we have capacity, we'll provide that, we'll accept your flows or provide water to your development

1:45:50within uh your as long as that permit is active now the the challenge that we have is that when we review and approve developments for let's say multifamily housing and single family housing mixed use development We don't know when those units are going to come online. If it's a very large development, it could be over 10 to 20 to 40 years time. So we use that for just some preliminary planning as far as what our total commitment might be. with respect to each wastewater plant, but what we're

1:46:20really tracking is actual flows at the wastewater plant and looking at population projections for that wastewater plant service area. And then where when the population projection curve intersects the permeated capacity of the plant. Whenever that time frame is, we back up from there to start planning the next plant expansion. What I think we have done incorrectly and it might be confusing is in the table and these findings, that uncommitted capacity that should not be zero. To

1:46:51some people it might infer that there's no capacity left at that wastewater plant, but there is capacity based on our population projections and compare that with the actual existing flows to the site. Does that make sense?

1:47:06So how how are you making the population projections?

1:47:12Uh we get that information from the University of Florida Bureau of uh Eric, can you pull up the the graphic that I have?

1:47:20Do you not track? The number of units we

1:47:26Approv. And that the Board of Commissioner proves down here. I can't tell you I can tell you that in the I've been on this commission a little more than year And I would be willing to bet that there's probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 to 20,000 units. No, I will agree that they won't all go to the Shady Hills wastewater treatment facility, but We've approved a lot of units. And I guess what I'm asking is there communication from planning

1:47:57and development over to utilities. I'm not saying anybody at Utilities has done anything wrong here, anything. But it seems to me they need the data. Did they They're relying on the University of Florida to tell them how many units we've approved or the commissions approved that are coming online? That's scary.

1:48:15No, it it's more of a a a reference point. We look at population projections, convert that to an estimated demand per person, and then convert that to an equivalent residential unit and use that and track that against the actual plant flow. And this graphic you see up on the screen shows plant flows in black and different curved lines for estimated population projections. When the population projection, and in this case, we use the medium projection from the University of Florida. Once

1:48:47we figure out what that estimated population increase is, convert that to some wastewater demand, compare that to the wastewater flows as it's tracking over time. When those two lines intersect at where the plant capacity is, we back up from there to start planning the plant expansion. The letters of commitment and the approved. equivalent residential units that are referenced in the planning documents. It's hard to tie that to when a plant may need to be expanded because we just don't know whether that development

1:49:17is gonna occur over the next five years or the next twenty or thirty years.

1:49:21But the So In your In the statement that's included in our memorandum, it says you commit the capacity when they actually apply for a construction permit. for the development. Well The I don't know what I mean. In general the DEP permits are valid for five years. Our preliminary and our construction plans here are valid for is it six six years? So this isn't something

1:49:52that's forty years, it's within six years.

1:49:58That's the DEP permit is I believe valid valid for five years. The letters of commitment, which is the county's obligation to provide that service to an applicant, I believe that time frame is two years. They have to actually s start construction within two years and then finish it within a small time frame. So that it doesn't have a an undefined date, it's it's tied to when construction will start. If that doesn't occur within that time frame, that capacity

1:50:26is freed up for other developments. So if someone hasn't built in the two years do you Add capacity back to the plant. I mean do you does someone keep track of those commitment letters and say, Oh, your two years is up, the capacity goes back to the plant and you lost yours?

1:50:45We track

1:50:46it from

1:50:47the permit standpoint. We let the applicant know that his his or her permit is about to expire. And but we track the the available capacity to plant based on population and actual plant flows, changes in plant flows over time.

1:51:03Could I ask a question that may help? I don't know.

1:51:07Because I think these University of Florida Bieber numbers are used for multiple planning purposes, not just utilities. I guess I'll ask our planning department. Have we ever exceeded Bieber high projections. From I don't Historically in Pasco County are we Bieber low, beaver medium, or beaver high? And if we ever exceeded Beaver High.

1:51:35Can somebody answer that?

1:51:36Yeah, I was gonna ask Adolpha the same thing. How how has this historically performed this? Because because

1:51:40my my understanding I only know this from MPO world. I don't because they use the same project same population projections. I don't My recollection is that we never have exceeded Beaver High, but I I would like somebody from the planning department to confirm that.

1:51:57I I don't know that we can necessarily answer that directly. We tend to uh get that information elsewhere, I believe. I don't know if you're

1:52:09You wanna speak to that?

1:52:14Yes, Jeffrey Jenkins long range planning. Uh typically I I'm not sure that we've ever exceeded the the Bieber. projections. Uh we try to stick with the medium. Um

1:52:30But I don't know of any case where we've ever uh or uh population um Exceed the the Bieber High.

1:52:42At least the five years that I've been

1:52:44Around. I guess well, my point is I don't know that I realize they come from the University of Florida, but I don't know that their population projections are inaccurate. The reason there's three different levels, low, median and high, is because that's kind of the range If if we have a high growth we're in closer to beaver high, if we're low growth recession and may end up being Bieber Low, but I don't know that we've ever gone above the highest projection. I wish somebody could definitively confirm that from the mining department. But that's my recollection

1:53:15from discussing this issue at MPO.

1:53:18How long has this method been used? Bieber for f for projecting at least with utilities.

1:53:25I don't know about utilities, but it's frequently used by the planning department and M PO for population production. It's the It is the definitive population projecture in the state of Florida. It's well recognized as the And that may

1:53:40be Well I'm saying is if they're saying that they only see a point oh seven M G D flow increase at the plant each year. That's only three hundred and fifty residential units based on the numbers out of their own book. Nobody's gonna tell me there's not more than three hundred and fifty residential units coming online. In that area. Are

1:54:04they

1:54:04saying they're predicting that or are they

1:54:05saying that that's what

1:54:06was historical They're saying that's what they've seen over the last few years is the average annual increase in flow at the treatment plant. Right. Well then either the sewers are leakin' bad and the water's disappearin' Or there's a lot of people on the skeptic. Well I don't think that's the case. We're not approving a bunch of Dwelling units in here on Well and Septic. No, we're not putting them on those forty foot wide lots.

1:54:34That's

1:54:34true. We haven't had a bunch of people come in here and ask for half acre lots. In fact I can't remember anybody other than the ones zoning today for the IR ones. Thank you to that guy. Um

1:54:48Uh sir the the 0.07 million gallons per day is an average of the equivalent residential units that we have been seeing and approving over the last five or six years. So it's not necessarily the change in the rate of flow at the plant. It's the average number of units that are approved in either a comp plan or a side plan once it gets to the construction stage.

1:55:14Three hundred and fifty? And I

1:55:17believe that's what it is for this service area, this particular wastewater plant.

1:55:22And are you seeing that same point zero seven going forward?

1:55:29Well, that's a good question. And look a look at that graph. If you look at the black line and compare it to those Bieber projections, you've seen an uptick just in the last year. Um the the the the uh the slope of the line has increased. So, you know, it it's changing on a year-by-year basis in terms of how the construction market is is changing in Pasco County. money. But what we use for planning purposes is that middle curve, that Bieber middle medium projection line. We need to fix it on something to then start planning it for future growth

1:55:58and and expansions. I'm gonna leave that all to them and I'll Drop it right here. All I know is I got a staff report that says you have zero uncommitted capacity. And then I got an explanation that the numbers don't make any sense.

1:56:16They think they're fine.

1:56:18No,

1:56:18I understand. We've got to figure out how to communicate that because you got a public out here that's concerned T there's not a they see they see development going on everywhere. And I can tell you the number one question that I get if I talk to somebody about my activity with the Planning Commission is where is all of the water coming from and where is the wastewater being disposed of? And so when then I get a document

1:56:48that says you have zero capacity, uh maybe that's just a miscommunication. It It appears by what you're saying that that's what it is. I'll just suggest that you guys need to figure out how to communicate it. To me, to the board. to the public because when I see zero it means we're out. We ain't got any.

1:57:09Yeah, and it's not just out by a little. I mean it's out by

1:57:11It's out by a lot. You you have negative uncommitted capacity. You have you have twenty two something M G D uncommitted

1:57:19capacity with a plant of fourteen. Approaching two times the plant capacity.

1:57:25Well and Adolfo could you address my question because I haven't even heard definitively whether there's potable water and sewer lines anywhere near this this particular property and is there a reason when we get Utility's comments on these plan amendments you're not identifying the closest point of connection because we had the same issue with seven diamonds where We get a comment that there's all this plant no plant capacity. But then the applicant gets up and says, I have no plan to

1:57:55ever connect to that plant. I'm gonna be on the right-of-way. Well on septic. So because the cloth because the closest point of connection was so far away. So Is there a way that when we get these utility comments on these plan amendments you all can identify the closest point of connection and whether you'd be okay with it being on Well and Septic if If there isn't a close point of connection? Because it's very deceiving to the public and planning commission to be putting in Plant capacity If you're

1:58:25not going to be able to do The whole world knows it's going to be well in septic.

1:58:32So can you tell me?

1:58:34Provide the applicant information as to where the closest point of connection would be at the comp plan review stage. That I believe our standard findings include statements that that will be determined at the time that they come in for construction uh documents uh to be reviewed by our department. And then the standards and the ordinance requires the applicant to extend. Sten utilities with the within a certain distance of Pasco County's utility infrastructure. We ha historically haven't provided that at the

1:59:04Complant stage. We can certainly provide that if it's your desire.

1:59:07Well, I just don't want to have another situation where We're talking about plant capacity. And then We hear that You've had conversations with the applicant that they're gonna be on well and septic. And so what was the point of providing plant capacity numbers?

1:59:25So Yes, I would prefer that you be putting I think it's material to the Planning Commission's decision about whether a project is going to be on Well and Septic or County water and sewer.

1:59:41I don't know how we would ever know that from the these staff reports.

1:59:47And we we figured it out from seven diamonds and only because the applicant got up and told us. We would never would have known that from the staff report.

1:59:58So in this case the applicant doesn't know because I guess they have not far on enough long on the development process, but I feel like the planning commission should know how realistic it is is that they're gonna be on county water and sewer in this location.

2:00:14Yeah.

2:00:18Because poor Mr. Moody over here is concerned about our plant capacity. He may not be as concerned if if they're on well and subject.

2:00:26No, and I would tell you for this size property I don't really have that big a concern. It's the next thousand unit MPUD that comes through here where I got a concern.

2:00:38Right. But my point is if I agree with you, but I'm just what raised your concern in the first place.

2:00:45this particular project wouldn't necessarily be eating into that plant capacity. Correct. So would you agree that it's knowledge you'd like to have? Yes, I would ag

2:00:56I wouldn't have asked the question if I didn't. And again, my bigger concern is it's This this is small potatoes in the water and wastewater. issue as far as the size of this particular development. They can probably get away. I have no idea what they're gonna put there since this is a Euclidean zoning, but It's it's the next big development that comes through. Do we actually have The capacity there. When I read this it says we don't And I Maybe

2:01:28I'm misunderstanding the whole point oh seven MGD, but I know what that adds up to and I know we're approving and I know there are under construction. Not permits. There are building permits issued and projects under construction. That are going to add way more than.07 Mg D of flow to that particular wastewater treatment plant.

2:01:55And maybe it it's just a miscommunication and the next time it comes back here this is all clarified. But it needs to get clarified because that's scary when you tell me there's no uncommitted capacity.

2:02:10Actually that

2:02:11you have a negative uncommitted capacity. So when we get to the stage of emotion do we need to put these

2:02:17Well I still would like to know if Adolfo knows where the closest point of connection is to this property.

2:02:24For sewer, it was right along US forty one. There's a sixteen inch force lane on forty one, adjacent to the east frontage of the property. For water, the p closest point of connection would be a little bit farther south at the entrance to Talabarra.

2:02:40So within a mile or so or less? Let me check.

2:02:58A little over a mile.

2:03:02And the sewer runs along the railroad line, is that what you're saying?

2:03:05You said it's in in the right of way of forty one?

2:03:09Yes.

2:03:09How far north does that go? Because apparently it doesn't go up up to seven diamonds.

2:03:16It goes up to I believe uh

2:03:21I don't know the name of that first east-west road north of that development. Actually it's not a road right now. It

2:03:33It continues approximately

2:03:40a third of a mile north of ditch development.

2:03:42Okay.

2:03:45And I guess I'll ask the engineers on the Planning Commission, is a mile a reasonable distance to connect to water? That

2:03:51depends on the size and scale and scope of your project. If I'm doing the thousand unit M P U D, yeah, probably not so much. If it's Oh. metal building for an electrician. Probably is too much. I don't know what's gonna go here.

2:04:13Okay.

2:04:14The comprehensive plan has some threshold distances depending on the the the wastewater and water demand. Depending on the number of equivalent residential units will dictate whether if utilities are within a half mile or mile, mile and a half away, an applicant has to connect to those systems.

2:04:34Okay.

2:04:38Well I think on a going forward basis if you can at least include the closest point of connection I think that would be helpful.

2:04:51Will do.

2:04:53It sound it looked like you looked it up in within five minutes.

2:05:00Okay.

2:05:03Thank you.

2:05:07So is there anything else on this? Barbara, did you have anything else? And uh was there I don't think there was anybody else here to speak to this.

2:05:17Okay. Any other questions from up here?

2:05:22I don't have a question. I have a just a item to note it up. Um we did receive a M P U D application for a project at about half a mile north of this. single family detached unit, so it will be coming in at some point.

2:05:43So you'll be seeing that

2:05:46Well, might as well vote against that right now.

2:05:54Okay. So if there's no further discussion, I'd like to hear a motion, please. Motion to approve. Second. Have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Not all in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like sign. Motion carries. Thank you, Adam.