Zoning Amendment (Consent) – Dawod Hany and Neamataud Nermeen – Change in Zoning from an R-3 Medium Density Residential District and C-1 Neighborhood Commercial District to a C-2 General Commercial District – Southeast Pasco County – Southeast Corner of State Road 54 and Shaw Drive – Containing Approximately 0.86 Acre
What the county recorded
Staff recommendation
Approve
No disposition in the minutes
The approved minutes do not say what became of this item. That is a gap in the record, not a decision. It is the normal state for 24% of items. Most of those are regular business and board reports that the minutes do not dispose of in writing. This archive never infers an outcome from the fact that someone called a vote.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Nov 2, 2023
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Nov 2, 2023
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
This case, across meetings
PDD-24-7744 in full →PDD-24-7744 was taken up 6 times between Nov 2, 2023 and Feb 8, 2024, continued 2 times — this is appearance 1.
- Nov 2, 2023PlanningPC5▶No disposition in the minutesthis item
- Nov 14, 2023BoardP97Continued
- Dec 7, 2023PlanningPC4▶No disposition in the minutes
- Jan 4, 2024PlanningPC2▶No disposition in the minutes
- Jan 9, 2024BoardP64▶Continued
- Feb 8, 2024PlanningP12No disposition in the minutes
No appearance of this case has a final disposition in the minutes. It was continued, or the minutes do not dispose of it in writing — which is true for 24% of items.
What was said
Machine transcription of 54m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 76% of 368 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Again, Liam Divine Planning Development. PC5 PDD 24-7744. And I'm gonna apologize for how I pronounce this name, but I am hopefully saying it right. Dow Wood, Hani, and Nimatao Nerme. It is a Euclidean rezoning request from R3 medium density residential district to C2 or C and C1 neighborhood commercial district to C2 General Commercial District. The future land use classification is
Res 9 under the comprehensive plan. The applicant proposes to develop the property with a 5,000 square foot maintenance. shop and auto repair in conformance with the C2 General Commercial District standards for development. The subject site is located on the southeast corner of State Road 54 and Shaw Drive. The subject site is located within East Market and is outside the urban concentration and rural areas.
This is the context of the area.
A closer or aerial view of the site.
The surrounding future land use to the north, east, south, and west is all Res9.
And the surrounding n um zoning to the north is R3 and C2, to the east is R3 and C2, to the south is R3 and R1 M H, and to the west is C2. The subject site is undeveloped on approximately 0.86 acre. The applicant has volunteered to record a deed restriction to address local concerns, and this is coming with a recommendation for approval from Planning Development Department.
All right. I can hear you, Lamb. So the applicant's present? Yes. All right. Would you like to make a presentation, Shelley?
Amy Shelley Johnson, sixty four hundred Madison Street. Um I have been sworn. I can answer any questions that come up.
Okay.
We weren't aware of any objections, but apparently we're going to have to do it.
Okay. You just want to have a seat there and we'll see if there are any objections. Um was there someone that had
a question on this one?
Sorry, we have several individuals who've signed up and I can go through that list.
About PC five?
I believe he is registered on the list.
Okay.
State your name and address.
Anybody that's gonna speak you can just sit in the front row there and make
return. Jimmy Nelson, um my address is [address removed]. I'm at the southwest corner of Waverley and Shaw. That's my property. And so we just do have a lot of questions about what's going on in this area.
Okay.
So
wha do you know anything about it yet?
No, did we just received this letter of maybe a week or two ago so we are questioning you know what's going on here in this area with this rezoning 'cause uh I do own that property right behind. Okay. Uh this current property.
They're asking for it to be rezoned to let me see. C two. C two, okay. So it would be a gener what they call a general commercial type of use. Wouldn't be residential. It would be a b business property.
Well I think that most of the residents that are here they do object to this, changing this into a commercial proper District.
Okay. So it's already zone C one though. It is zone commercial already. We're just looking to change from C one to C two.
Okay, so that what does that mean for my property? It just
means the uses are a little bit um there's more uses allowed with C two than the C one of the D.
And then I hear changing to a deed restriction.
That was yeah, that was with another property where uh
there's a deed restriction uh included here that that's for another condition.
That prevents the owner upon recordation of the restriction from ever developing that as an affordable housing project in accordance with one of the recently passed state statutes.
Okay, from what do residents that live around me or Um do not want this change to from this residential to this commercial. But it's not currently residential.
It's currently C one commercial.
Actually it is.
Don't speak from the audience.
Uh just say here that uh they want to change from residential right here where it says on s this PC five.
Yeah, the zoning map maybe you can put up there? Because I think it's
from a medium dental resident. R1 and C one. Right there. Can we see that? Can everybody see what I'm seeing here? Yeah, three and three. Okay. So I'm just trying to figure out this is not something that I or the other residents in the area want.
So you got this at the zoning map, Lam.
So explain I understand you're saying you and the other residents don't want it. What is it that you're objecting to or why don't you want this?
Because we don't wanna be uh having to change from a residential area to a commercial area. This is gonna come about with more uh housings being built, which this is going on everywhere. There's more cars and concrete, the roads are not done. My road floods already as it is when it rains. uh my yard gets so flooded it's unreal. But nobody seems to do anything about this. But now they want to change it from residential to now just uh commercial property
in the area. So, you know, I I don't know a whole lot about this, so I'm just stating that this is something that me and my wife do not want. So you keep referring to the product that
I keep referring to the property as being residential, but the The map the map that's in the staff report we've been provided shows that this is C one commercial. Is that correct, Liam?
It's it looks like the map and the staff report's a little bit inaccurate.
So if I can if I can explain, um the image the property is actually C uh R three, uh as it's in the title, R three and C one. So when staff was reviewing this we Pull all of the previous rezoning and go through it and read the minutes from the previous approvals. When this was approved, it was approved for C1, except for lot 21. That would be the small R3 area that you'll see right there. So
it is technically C1 and R3. So that's not the same
map as in the staff report. report
correct in the correct the the m the map the visual zoning visual in your agenda packet we are waiting for GIS to provide us an updated version because we had to correct that on the zoning map. So it's corrected on the zoning map, but we are still waiting on the updated. I understand.
That's that's fine.
Okay, so all the pink is on C one.
C one commercial. Okay. Except for the lot twenty loop.
Is the R three.
So do do you understand that, sir? So everything that's on that front Shaw Drive and what's the other Fifty four. Fifty four and Waver. Fifty four, that's all commercial already.
And I also think it might be helpful if someone just does a brief overview of what's allowed in C one versus C2, which is what they're asking to change it to.
Can I may I speak?
Um you you're gonna need to give your name and address.
My name is Christina Nelson, [address removed]. Okay. I'm also on that corner. So before Raphael that triple A towing took over and demolished everything, um that was a home, and so he demolished all the trees, demolished the home,
The compound compound thing. Now there's two homes over here and I'm guessing that's what he wants to demolish and put uh you said a mechanic shop or something? That's what I heard, is that correct? Okay, so here's my issue. So I we all work, we're all blue-collar workers. So um and we have children. There's children all along our road. So with him building this compound thing,
I've had numerous issues with him. So when he cut down all the trees, I had to call the county, the code enforcement. He didn't get any permits to cut down the trees, so he got fined for that. The fires, he was doing fires, the fire department had to come out. Three times to put out his fires because they were too high and illegal, unlawful fires.
Noise ordinances had to come out there at Pat's place, noise ordinances, the sheriffs go out there. I'm constantly battling with these two businesses. So if he puts a mechanic thing, you know, mechanic shop right there on the corner, I'm gonna have to battle. With that as well. I'm in bed at seven o'clock because I have to get up at two AM for work. Um I work ten hour days. So I personally I own my home. Oh a all a lot of us own our homes. I
don't think it's fair that they should be able to come and put a automobile place on the corner when I live right across the corner from it. My grand my mother and grandfather live right behind me. He's ninety eight years old. He doesn't need to be hearing that. My mom doesn't need to be hearing that. Like No, I'm opposed to it. This is not okay. It's already bad enough that down the street that Linar Homes bought out the the woods that was there and built frickin' town homes
like No, we were a nice quiet neighborhood and now we have
Well let me let me just stop you right there for a second. And don't please don't speak from the audience because that's confusing. We 'cause we have to get everything on the recorder and she has to translate it. And if she's got multiple voices talking from the audience, she can't get it down right. So um Liam, I guess the question is it's he won now most of the property. Can he do the mechanic? Not in
C
One. Um so what can they do on C One?
So for C one, and I'm just gonna go down the list here, um retail sales, daycare centers, um financial institutes, fitness centers, um public services facilities like a police station, um medical dental um clinics, um, and the city of the city. Residential treatment care facilities, pharmacies,
would be allowed.
Okay. So is his existing business not not compliant?
Hi his existing business of
towing
towing would not be allowed in C one.
No, there is obviously.
Yes, there is.
Um when I did a drive-by survey of the property, but I didn't see towing.
Okay, so is his storage Operation in compliance?
No, that would not
be. Okay. And ma'am, can you on the map show me where which property is yours?
I'm right southwest corner of Sean Way.
Right there where that house is.
Right where the
pointer is.
And sir, where is yours?
He's with me. So we're on the scene.
That's multi-burger
may
couple.
That's a that's a pointer. You can use that to point with. Just push the button and hand and There you go.
And he's building a um like a compound that goes like this right here. Um at one point in time he was running a towing service. You can ask anybody on our block, because he was using Waverly to come in and out and um his toe trucks almost hit my best friend's daughter on this floor right here. He almost hit my car one time. One of his drivers. I actually followed one of his drivers into his property to tell them to slow down because he almost
hit me. And then they started using a gate right here. Um and I um I have Rale's personal number and he just recently stopped
So
Yes. The applicant were to agree to restrict access to Waverley and put up some kind of wall or fence on the south side of the property Some opaque fence or wall, would that address any of your concerns?
He already has a fence there. So they can't use Waverly anymore. He has it, so they only use Shaw. But no, because I still hear all that noise. And so if he builds over here, where you guys are are speaking about, across the street on the opposite side of Shaw, I'm still gonna hear all of that. At Midas, he's the manager. He has since
I've known him for um almost 30 years. So I know the sounds that come with the shop and I'm always gonna be opposed to this.
Okay. Liam, how wide is the right-of-way on Waverly?
I
um sorry,
um
fifty feet.
Fifty feet. Yes. Maybe can I ask Brad to answer a question? If this were to be C one or C two, would the fifty foot right away require him to do the type A buffer or the B buffer along Waverly? Excuse me,
Ms. Brad's coming from the back this week. He's with the county.
Uh Brad tip and planning development. Uh essentially when you have a local road, it's what's across the street. Right. Uh so it depends on what is across the street. If it's commercial, then it would be a lesser buffer than
their property is zoned looks like R1 M H, at least the map that's
buffer on that side.
So it's a B, so that would require so even Back to David's point. if he were to develop this, he would be required to plant a fifteen foot wide landscape buffer which includes either a wall, berm, fence or a hedge that's at least six feet high and eighty percent opaque within a year. So I don't know that we would necessarily, David, need to r restrict
it that he'd already be required under the land development code to do that. I'm not sure that that addresses their
noise
concern, but
Yeah, I meant well the only potential issue might be if he tries to get access to Waverly because I'm not sure if staff would allow a whole like a a gap in the wall if he puts a driveway there. I see. So uh you might need to restrict access to Waverly. I I don't think that's going to address the resident's concern. But it would have to be but by like deed restriction or something. Well, he already has a deed restriction that he's proposing for Live Local. He could add an additional
restriction to not access Waverly. Although it doesn't sound like that addresses the resident's concern, but it but it It may help the planning commission
but I it What's on the adjacent properties just to the west? Those are zone C two I'm not are those problems disrupting you it's
clear
to me the aerial there you go.
Ne are you talking about next to him?
Yes.
Those are homes that are next to him. Right, and
up on fifty-four where they have commercial. What are what's on those?
The those r so right next to him are homes.
Right down on fifty four. Up there, yes. Yeah, but
That's not a home there.
Right, what is that?
We can't see that.
Uh right on right on Rave Waverly right next to him, there's a home. So what's above that, we can't see that. That doesn't disrupt us at all.
So where you're pointing at right there where all those things are? There. the compound thing that was a home that he tore down. Right there. That used to be a home that he tore down.
The reason he's asking is the adjacent properties down fifty four, all of them are C two already and because it's currently C one.
We we can't hear those. Like there's an there's an R V like a R V thing right there and then there's a storage uh Uhaul storage thing down, but we don't hear those. They don't They're not like banging and welding and whatever else they're doing across the street from us. He's literally directly across the street from us.
So in that zoning district. You said one of 'em was a storage place and the other one an R V. No, th there's nothing that requires those owners to keep those properties that way. Any of those owners could sell their property to somebody and redevelop that and perhaps build an auto repair shop. If that happened how would that affect the easement,
wouldn't because they're far enough away from me. I see. Okay. I could I could throw a rock and hit his office. Literally. Like if I'm sitting on my porch, I can hear him having a conversation as he can hear me having a conversation. I rehab wildlife. So when he tore all them trees down, I had an issue. Just like when Lenar Holmes bought all the the land down. the road I have an issue. I mean I've released I don't know five hundred squirrels or more. I've been doing this for ten years. So
yeah, and for him to you know, all the noise and stuff, I'm that's yeah, no, I'll never be okay with it.
I have I have children.
Brad, was there something else you wanted to say?
Uh I just wanted to say that because I believe this is not conditionable, uh there is an option. Um unfortunately they would be allowed to use any of the options for the type D buffer for the six-foot screen. Um obviously like a six-foot hedge that's visual but doesn't do that much for sound. Um, you know, a vinyl fence that's six feet tall. Does a little bit for sound and visual. For sound, you would probably want something more like a wall. So if they wanted to actually
add to their deed restriction to put a wall on the backside where it would do residentials, that would be probably the best way to address sound there as well as orientation of the site. We can address that time of site plan because we do have some restrictions also. where those bay doors can face. So that's an option. I have a question
for Shepard. I'm sorry, say that again, Brad, about
restriction on bay doors.
So we do have some restrictions in the in the code as far as uh where what direction the bay doors would face.
So what how would that how would that work on this site?
So they they should not face the residential area. I mean it gets dicey if you're surrounded by residential but uh th this is a situation where they they probably would not have bay doors facing the actual residential land. Um but again if there is still sound, if there is still activity outside of the building, you know, behind the building between them and residents, then that could be somewhat dealt with with a wall better if they were willing to deem restrict to do a wall back there. Otherwise the code
would allow them any of those options. They could install anything as they wanted.
Sorry. So I have a a quick question for staff too. Um so I see future land use here is res nine, is that correct? Through this whole area?
That is correct. So a part of your agenda packet um from long range planning there was a in commercial infill determination.
Okay. So that was gonna be my question and how we can make a zoning change that's inconsistent with the flu.
Yes.
Okay.
Uh the there is one thing I do wanna add because it was brought up talked about um towing services. That is not a a permitted C two use, that is a conditional use in C two. So if that's the use they're wanting, which was not part of this application, it was maintenance and auto repair for this application. If they're going to go for towing, they would have to come in for if the rezoning to C two was approved, they would have to come in for a conditional use for towing services.
Has there ever been any code enforcement uh action on this property for non permitted use?
Um I'm currently looking at um a seller record. There have been some code compliance um
cases that have been opened but they seem to be closed at the moment. It looks like there was um removal of trees without a permit.
Okay. What appears it appears the business is operating there, it's a towing service and sort of which is inconsistent with C one and possibly even C two without a conditional use.
All right. Thank you. I know you have some other people that want to speak, so let's
I just have one more
Excuse me, I'm sorry. Ms.
Nelson. Nelson.
Ms. Nelson. I need to let all these other people speak, you know.
We
can have your name and
address, please.
My name is Richard Cuyaba, K-U-J-A-W-A for the record. I live at [address removed]. And the the road itself, Shaw Drive is what's splitting these two properties. Um he has been using the property for AAA services even though he says he hasn't or or is stopped. I got on my phone where the gates are still open. He's got the trucks in there. You can um take a picture at a different
time. Different truck will be So yeah, he's still he's still utilizing for what he says he's not utilizing it for. Um there's been significant damage done to the road, him coming in and out, you heard from other neighbors. the traffic that it's gonna bring or keep we l it's a dirt road and it it dead ends. So any traffic that misses the business is gonna come down to the end of the road, use my driveway to turn around, go back
up the road, and it's fruitless. Um what they're trying to do, changing it from residential C one to straight commercial C three I guess or C two, whatever it is, um changes what they can do significantly as opposed to the residential neighborhood that's attached to it. There's probably fifteen kids living a three blocks that play on those
three blocks. Four blocks actually, but that's a private road that they annihilated. Um they they just their trucks would drive through it. There also was a uh a tree service company that was using in and out of there. And ideally the gate that they're using wasn't supposed to be used for their trucks. They're supposed to be using the entrance that's on 54. the w the entrance that they do use was for their employees to park
their vehicles to go get in their trucks to drive and go to work. They come out the the gate, they don't pay attention to who's coming up and down the road because as I say, it's a dirt road. They just look forward and they come out of there. And then they head up to 54 to get on the road and do what they're gonna do. Sometimes I'll go through Pas Place, parking lot and go up that way. But the traffic that it used beat the road up and they only drade the road once a month. So
y'all live in Florida, drive down Dirt Road, Dade City, I'm sure. I used to have a paper out of Date City. I don't know what that's a lot. But our road looks like that. And it should. And the kids shouldn't have to be worried about getting run out in the trucks. That's about it.
Okay. Well thank you very much. Anybody have questions for this person here? Where's your
uh I'm a guy. Not personally. You're
not
a person. Identify as a guy, yes, a normal person. Don't get me into the pronoun thing, okay? We recognized you as one. Which one is yours? I live at [address removed], um where the dirt road ends. Let me see there.
Okay, that's just
Yeah.
Yeah. I'm down here. Where's the new development? Okay, I'm starting here.
Okay. That's where they turned around.
Okay. I have the guy's spot.
No, I understand.
It's not so much about the the coming down using my driveway to turn around but the other neighbors as well. But the bottom line is they effectively drive all the way down to the end of the road and say, Okay, this is it, can't go no further. And I have my I have a uh a fence across at my property and I even got reflective signs that that end you know it says no outlet at the beginning of the road. But it's the fact that the traffic Comes down all the way, then turns around and goes back up. So no matter what, you know, that extra traffic that this other
thing's gonna bring in. is gonna be even more. I mean ten times that, you know, if it's a busy shop. And the kids don't really need it, you know.
All right. Well thank you very much.
Thank you.
Who's next? Like we uh had one more.
Mark Curtis. I uh I own property back in uh on Huron Street.
What's your what's your address, Mark?
It's uh [address removed].
Okay, thank you.
Um And I've seen all this progress. And when I bought the property, there was two houses on the lower end of it. uh of his property. And then he fenced it in, took the houses down, so that w made it all commercial. And then uh took down all the trees without the fence. And uh he's been, like uh Rick has been saying, he's been using he
doesn't pay attention to the rules. It says no trucks on either streets. He takes down the signs. Um it's just uh he'll do what he wants. We're just bringing it to your attention.
Well you thank we appreciate it. Thank you very much. Anybody we missed? Only get one bite at the apple. Did somebody else want to speak?
Okay. Shall we?
Thank you. Shelley Johnson, 6400 Madison Street, and I have been sworn. Um just to answer the traffic questions, um it did a T M P, it's exempt. Um there's actually uses within C One that probably would generate a lot more traffic than what's being proposed with this particular use, which is the Um auto the the maintenance repair enclosed shop type of a situation. Um they are going to be accessing off a Shaw. And they are required, it looks like the comments that came back from traffic is they are going to be required to
do construct you know mitigation, design, and construction of Shaw Drive from State Road 52 to the project access. They have no problem with agreeing to no access to Waverly if we want to add a D-restriction to that. And if you want to require that they put in a wall in the south end, they'll be happy to do that as well. And I don't know. I think that addressed all of the questions.
the right-of-way. Sorry.
I'm sorry, I can't take it from where you're where you are.
Does somebody have a question for this man?
I'll ask him what's the picture on his phone.
I just wanna know what that's gonna be.
Is there a building permit issued on this property for a building?
Um not that I'm aware of but I can double check.
Where where is that on the properties? On the the back side of it?
This is where the houses used to be, two houses used to be that got torn down.
Now they're building some kind of concrete
I'm having a hard time. Is that shipping containers or is it metal building that's shipping?
It looks like it's intended to be
a building.
They are building it as we
So can I ask you to do that?
I'll wait till their
dialogue is done though. Okay. What uh what did you see? What did you observe, John?
It appears to be shipping containers that somebody's clearly intending to inhabit for some purpose. I don't know.
It what piece of property is it? I cannot see it from here on that little page. We're gonna pass it down to you, Pete. Okay. Can you point it in? Yeah, that'd be great. Okay.
Can you p yeah. Yeah,
it'd be nice to put it on the map so that the audience can see it also.
Okay, yeah. So while you're doing Sergeant Peppers.
Sergeant Pepers. Can I ask Shelley a question while we're doing the graphic? Um Shelley, can you come back to the podium? So I thought I heard you say that all of the maintenance activities would be indoors, is that accurate?
It's a five thousand square foot building that they're gonna be building, yes. That's my understanding for auto repair.
And is that the building?
No, I I don't honestly I don't know. I've never ever spoken to the actual owner, so I I truly do not know what he's doing on this property just for the record. Um but I I don't know if p that's gonna be part of it or not, I really don't. But that's the intention.
Did we figure out if there's
I mean, is that something you're willing to commit to in your deed restriction? that all the maintenance activities would be within an enclosed building.
I mean we would have to talk to the um client about it. Um
I mean 'cause what I'm hearing the neighbors biggest concern is noise.
Yeah.
And it it seems to me that if the maintenance activity was entirely within an enclosed building, in addition to the buffer that Brad mentioned that probably would mitigate most of the noise. But I'm not sure that and I guess I'll ask Liam Did there's a maintenance In the absence of a deed restriction committing that it be in an enclosed building, could they do maintenance outdoors?
And David, not to interrupt, but uh I've just got word that work he's fine with that. To do another restriction that it be with enclosed building. So
Well it's is this gonna be auto repair? Auto repair. So that's required to be an enclosed building under C two.
C correct. It is a required to be enclosed.
But does enclosed building maybe we can ask the code enforcement officer here, does enclosed building mean that all the doors need to be shut? Because I know when I drive by Midas. They're changing mufflers and those overhead doors are open. When I drive by Tire Kingdom they're changing tires and those doors are open and I can hear the impact wrenches and All of that. So it it's technically in an enclosed building, but it doesn't mean it's a hundred percent Enclosed and a hundred percent soundproof either. So although
if
it's facing away from residential areas it may not be as bad.
Very true.
I if you don't mind, I do want to answer the question that you asked earlier if there's any active building permits. I do not see any. The last building permits that I've seen that were pulled was from 2021 for tree removal.
Okay.
And I think we're waiting
for the case.
The answer to your question is no, the doors don't have to be closed. They have to be able to be closed.
Okay.
Okay. Um and just so that the board's aware, I'm gonna create a call and have one of the officers investigate this, this property for all the violations that's being brought up.
Yeah. What what were the violations, please? I'm
sorry? I I
didn't I don't understand.
I said I would cr I will create a call for the officer for that zone to investigate all the violations that have been brought up. That is being used as a storage lot.
Okay. We have to go out and
recognize it. Thank you. I need clarification on that one. And one other thing I like to add. This photo here. Is there any documentation to go along with that? I don't know what's a photo of. Well, this came from
residents. So as far as I can tell by looking over your shoulder earlier, we don't actually have any current complaints on this property. The last ones that were conducted by us were the tree removals. But with this information, I will create a call and I will have one of the two zones. officers for that area investigate it and determine whether or not there are violations going on.
Thank you. That's
great.
So can I ask Shirley another question? Sure.
Um given Brad's earlier testimony that the code doesn't necessarily require a wall on the south side, would your client commit to building a wall along Waverly in lieu of what the code requires?
Yes, they're fine with that.
And they're also fine with the restriction that they don't access Waverley. They don't have any intention of using it, so
What? Should we define the specifics of the wall of construction?
Well again it depends on what Shelley's client's willing to commit to, but typically You all define the height of the wall, whether it's six feet or eight feet. Um and I don't know.
Did we ever get into the thickness of the wall or I don't I don't know.
concrete block.
Did we just say concrete block and that's enough?
Yeah, generally we can we can speak to the material of the wall and height of the wall, not necessarily the width or thickness because those are some engineering things depending on what it's making. So
you could say concrete block wall of eight feet, maybe. Eight I mean in your opinion do you think which which do you think z eight feet is better for noise reduction?
There there are pros and cons to to both whenever you bring a wall in because it it creates a a a visual issue from the other side as well. So you if you have landscaping on the outside then you have to have a situation where people can get from the property to be able to maintain landscaping that's buffering big blank wall. If there's no issue with the big blank wall, uh then we change that a little bit. Uh and it It really just depends, you can say the materials, you can say the height. Uh s I believe there's is it Liam's thirty
feet from residential for any type of uh the building structure. So it's
Sorry,
you're
you're talking about the setbacks for our C two?
Yeah.
Yeah, so that's what I'm reading, yeah. Okay. So
it's thirty feet
from residential
district. Right, so I think that the the angle if if you're talking about two story homes south of the property versus one story home south of the property, I I I don't know there's much difference between a six foot or eight foot wall. There's a cost difference for the applic uh for the uh developer, but
An eight foot wall can seem imposing to a neighborhood that has a lot of single story houses depending on what they're used to. But again it's kind of a Takes one half dozen the other.
I'm not personally sure. that a wall necessarily mitigates the sound. I'm thinking about I walk into a home under construction that's got concrete slab floor and concrete block walls and there's nothing but an echo in there but yet after I've got the carpeting and the drywall in and the ceilings then you walk in and there's no echo because you've got this material that absorbs sound. So I'm I'm not a hundred percent convinced. I I
don't know. I don't know enough about sound science to Kind of make that decision but I'm not A hundred percent convinced that if we did like a masonry wall that that's really going to it may actually amplify their sound problem. I don't know.
Well, I mean, sh on in terms of the building, I t to address your earlier point, I mean Shelley could commit in the deed restriction that that all that the doors would be closed at all times when maintenance activity is occurring. 'Cause the code officer said that they won't under our code Make them shut the doors. But Shelley could commit an indeed restriction
that the doors would be and then an indeed written restriction would be enforced by the neighbor would have to file suit in court to enforce the restriction. That's probably a little onerous on the
Actually we're in the process of retranging our code to say that our code enforcement can enforce a deed restriction too. So I mean something that our code officer could enforce with the Doors were not closed.
No, it's someone that owns an auto shop. It's um to close the doors during the summertime is pretty pretty different.
I think facing away from residential areas is probably your best bet. There wouldn't be too much sound traveling through the building walls. If we face
the water, I tend to think if the bay doors were facing away. That's gonna funnel the noise that way than the other way, yes.
As long as there's no maintenance activities outside the building. And
that can all be put in a package together to try and do this via the deed restriction just to make it extra
Could I comment on
that?
Yes sir, go ahead. The other problem with an auto repair shop, because I used to work on wooden one when I was a kid, is when you're working on a motor, a internal combustion engine, you really want those doors open to allow the fuel to out. Yeah, for sure. So, you know, telling them that they have to shut the doors and then causing another issue may be more of a problem than you originally thought. Yeah,
I don't think we can do that. after Bruno Show.
So let me ask this question. How much?
Room. is required. They want to build a five thousand square foot building. Is there any kind of site plan that they've created?
Might My thinking here. I I'm looking at a couple of things. I'm looking at This truly does meet the definition of infill. development. There's no doubt about it. We've got this strip of C two on fifty four He's the only C one parcel. So I can see where this meets that infill definition, but I also hear the neighbors, and what I'm wondering is Can the building be located closer
to fifty four so that there's a yard? behind the building. And maybe they would be willing to deed restrict activity in the yard behind the building, or maybe you amend this application to make the C2 area only a certain depth back from 54, so that there's some transition to Help appease the concerns of the residents.
What I see with the other C two if you can put the map up is that there's this buffer of R three or R one M H properties that goes C two and then starts stepping down to the neighborhood where there's no step down here in the zoning.
So we have the you know the activity needs to occur within the building already. Um if those doors are are an issue um and do need to remain open. Uh, you know, the activity's not gonna be occurring out in the yard. It's gonna be occurring in the building and the sound will be going across the yard. So um you know, to you could probably further restrict and de restrict activities with behind the building if you wanted to just to make sure that sort of things couldn't happen back there. But you know, that's
So we wouldn't want to get too complicated to see what we're talking about.
Would it be easier, assuming Shelley's client was willing to agree to it, that there just be a requirement in the D restriction that the site plan come back to the Planning Commission? kind of notice public hearing so that you all see exactly how this building is situated on the site, what the buffering is, and the residents have a chance to see it too, so you're you're looking at an actual site plan for these issues rather than trying to Think about all the possible
issues that you put in a deed restriction. Might just be easier to have the site point come back to you.
So do a continuance, you mean?
No, I'm suggesting that if Shelley's client's agreement with it that there just be a requirement in the deed restriction that the I guess is it PSP or PDP?
PSP.
That the PSP would come back to the Planning Commission at a notice public hearing before it's approved. So that you have a chance to weigh in on these issues, such as building orientation, buffering, you know where the
doors are oriented towards fifty four and there's a parking area 'cause shops need parking areas for parking.
Wants to use it for But he could turn around it when this is done and sell it tomorrow and it could be a completely different use and then we've got this deed restriction that burdens the next user, which may be less offensive
or more offensive. But I
mean
you could say you could say for any use, any non- any city use that is only a C2 use. In other words, if they come in with a C1 use, it doesn't come back to you, no site plan comes to you. But they are requesting gonna change from C one to C two. So I think you would have the right to asked to see a site plan for any use that's permitted only in Z two. I mean sounds it's up to the Planning Commission and see if the applicant would agree with it, but I I'm only throwing it out 'cause it avoids you trying
to come up with a bunch of requirements that to see and then see if Shelley's in agreement with all of them at the diets, which may be difficult.
Shelley, how do you feel about that
suggestion?
Not to confuse us anymore, David, but How do
the residents feel about this?
Looking looking at five twenty five point four under special exemptions or exception uses, the repair garage is a potential s special exemption under C one.
But then we if you came back as
assumed this is vehicle repair.
So then we'd have the right to condition it.
Then you would have the right to condition it. So I guess I'll ask Liam, is there a reason that came this came in as a C two as opposed to a special code?
So under permitted uses um for C two, number eighteen, garage and maintenance services, all work shall be performed inside of a building. That's number eighteen. And I think
permitted use. The question is could they have done the same thing as a special exception in C one?
A portion of the site is is not C two.
I get it. Okay. They had to rezone anyway because of the R three portion. All right, I understood.
And that's consistent with the surrounding C two.
So could the application be amended? to rezone the R three portion to C one and then come back as a special exception where in the appropriate conditions could be applied?
It's better than to deny it.
That's that's not anything on any new land, that's land that was involved in this originally, so that could be uh an alternative solution potentially to
Yeah, I mean you i if you want a recommendation, if you want I don't know how the applicant feels for that, but I'm sure they're
not gonna be able to do it.
But but you could in theory say if you don't want to approve a C rezoning to C two, but you would approve a zoning change from R three to C one for the R three portion. That that's a lesser zoning than what they requested, so I guess that's within your recommending authority.
Well, you know, just to throw my hat in the ring. I I I'm I'd very reluctant to approve this under the circumstances that have been presented here and mainly because this particular applicant evidently has mi Done a lot of things sort of under the
radar.
And I don't want that residents to have to come back here every time there's a violation and report it and then wait for somebody to deal with it and you know, we don't need those kind of activities. So um it's a matter of trust, you know, with me. So the way that you just suggested, that would be the only way I would vote in favor of it.
So you you the recommendation would be changed the R three portion to C one And deny deny the C one to C two change. And that would have
to have a separate hearing for the special exception request for
that would be a whole new application. Right. And so by changing the entire site to C one, you do leave you do make it that possibility available to them to come in for the special exception approval.
To me that makes a lot more sense for everybody, including the residents. And I think there is a case to be made for the for the residents here. You know, they Yeah, they're hard working people that have been there a long time, you know, th and they've had to deal with a lot of violations in the past. Everything there's a building going up and there's no permit. There's you know, it's been uh Hey Liam everything that you has been done there is basically not been approved in the C in the C one
zone. Can I ask Liam
one question? Yeah. Liam Why was the in the prior rezoning that went to C one, why was the R three piece excluded?
So that was not in the minutes from the meetings from when it was approved back in I think eighty one. That was left out. That was a a change that was made with staff and the applicant and it was not part of the record. Um so I'm not sure why, but the applicant agreed to it and it was discussed at the hearing, but it wasn't said why they agreed to it and that wasn't a part of it. So so I don't have an answer for
it. Was there a house on it or something at the time?
I I I bet that's what it was. It was probably somebody that lived there and they owned the property around it.
So and I I do wanna clarify something also. You're saying auto repairs and maintenance. Maintenance and auto repairs are definitely are are different. So auto repairs would be like an oil change, a tire change, something like that. A maintenance could include welding. So that type of use for an auto maintenance facility and an auto repair is are are different.
So we're not sure I understand the difference. A Jiffy lube versus a like a mechanic shop where you're pulling an engine out.
Co correct. So are you saying Jiffy Lube is maintenance?
Auto
auto repair. That's a repair. So that's well I don't know, an oil change, that's not repair. That's made
on auto repair, but that's the same thing.
Welding we get into that, then that could be fabrication and that could get into C three and I one. So Liam, the special exception used in C one.
What is that?
So that would be an automotive um service. So that could include sales of sparks plugs, batteries, um tire services, repairs, replacement of hoses, belts, brake fluid, light bulbs, fuses, floor mats. Um
So that's different than what's allowed in C2?
Yes, because that wouldn't include any um Painting, welding, storage, um operating conditions of the vehicle. That would be a C2 for maintenance.
More
more in depth requirements. Is the theory that the C T use is more in depth and noisier basically? Is that cor
correct.
So then for what they want to do They would need C two?
Correct.
I'm just suggesting you all the time.
just gonna suggest that 'cause we weren't aware of any of these issues before we came here today, so um if we could go ahead and just move to continue this and I can s sit we can meet with the residents and get the get the client here and and really address, you know, whatever needs to be addressed. I feel like um we're a little flat footed on it right now, so
D data uncertain or particular day intended?
Um yeah, whenever the next Planning Commission meeting is I don't have the calendar.
Yeah, that'd be fine.
But but Shelly asks to kind of to this whole discussion that's going on right now, what is the intended use of the I mean are they gonna do more heavy auto repair and Yeah.
Yeah, so the way he's described it to us is maintenance, but again, I think that's something we need to talk to the client about and get all clarification of those facts from it.
Clearly running the towing service here.
Yeah, and find out what's going on.
With residents, 'cause again I wasn't aware of any of this until just now. So
could you uh I recall not too many months back we had a conversation, a lengthy one, regarding towing and the towing on services. If you could get some clarification on that too, I have that done as one of the questions that I would like to see answered is towing. I recall that that re Statement was made and that there was a limit, a time limit that they couldn't do it after a certain time because of residents and their peace and quiet. So clarification of that might help
to
Yeah, I definitely will find out all that information. That's a conditional.
Okay. Do I hear a motion? Motion to continue to second.
December seventh, one thirty indeed city.
To December seventh, at one thirty indeed. I'll
take it.
Okay, we have a motion and second further discussion. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye, motive, opposed, like sign. Okay.
And hopefully in the meantime we can also get an update from the compliance from our compliance inspection too.
Right.
Code compliance. Excellent. Great. Thank you very much. Thank
you. Thank you, Dad. I appreciate it.