Zoning Amendment (Regular) - Beacon Woods East MPUD - Lowman Links, Inc. - A Modification to the MPUD Master Plan (Map H) and Conditions of Approval to Set Forth Passive Uses, and Regulations Regarding the Same, That May Occur in Specific Golf Course Areas

2:22:49P seventy eight was advertised in the Tampa Bay Times September sixth, twenty twenty three.

2:22:57Good afternoon, Tammy Siner, Planning and Development. Um just a little housekeeping first throughout this review, there have been a number of ex partees and communications which have all been forwarded to the clerk's office already. And here we have Beacon Woods East M P U D. It's P D D twenty four seventy-seven forty-two.

2:23:18Proposed is a zoning amendment from an MPUD to an MPUD to amend the master plan and conditions of approval to set forth additional passive uses that may occur in certain golf course areas, such as parks, open space, drainage, and utilities.

2:23:35And the site is located in western Pasco County.

2:23:40Here's the location map.

2:23:45Current zoning districts. The uh current uh area is M PUD and it's surrounded by um v uh mix of general commercial professional office PUDs and MPUDs.

2:23:58Future land use is res six, residential, six dwelling units per gross acre, and PD plan development.

2:24:07The context map shows the Regional Medical Center, Bayonet's Point, Hudson Regional Library, Veterans Memorial Park, and the few schools.

2:24:17Here's the master plan. A majority of this has been built out. The conditions of approval were revised to include specific passive uses such as neighborhood parks, to include walking trails, unlit open play areas, toplots, playgrounds and recreational courts, and potentially an entrance road utilities, floodplain compensation and drainage.

2:24:41Um the conditions of approval were also revised per the Planning Commission. Condition of number thirty-eight was revised to say shall rather than may. Um the planting and proper maintenance slash removal of trees and or shrubs shall be allowed. And a final sentence was also added to that condition for further further clarification. Uh tree removal shall be allowed where it meets the criteria in section 802.3.b.1 or 2 of the Land Development Code. And such tree

2:25:11removal shall not constitute a prohibited agricultural activity or harvesting. And with that, the PDD and the Planning Commission recommend approval with conditions.

2:25:24Okay. Mr. Chairman Mariano.

2:25:29Was this l when was public or you gave that or

2:25:32Uh there are four people signed up.

2:25:34Oh

2:25:34okay. Yeah. I thought this was gonna get remanded back to the P to the Planning Commission.

2:25:43One minute.

2:25:48Okay.

2:25:56Good afternoon. Barbara Heights, [address removed]. If I could just take one second, I want to say something about your staff. We're approaching the end of my 27 year year working with Pasco County government. It's been a really fine year. You have some great staff. You have new leadership with Roy and Nick Erin and and Jason and Public Works and your staff working on these compliment amendments and these rezoning. Are really doing a great job. So I just wanted to be thanked to say thank you for the opportunity to work with you every day of this year

2:26:26and with your great staff. Sorry about that. There's nothing to do with this. So here we are. Um but I didn't want to say that this morning 'cause your public comment went on forever. So I thought I would do it now. And don't forget the Great County Attorney's Office. They have they're really seasoned and you guys are lucky to have um all those people. So yeah. It's like a where's Barbara going? What's she doing? Anyhow, I just wanna say 'cause this is our last meeting of the year. Um so This is the most unusual matter I find myself doing

2:26:57aft for these 27 years. I represent the contract purchaser on this property, Ryan Holmes. We have an agent of record form from the owner of the former golf course, Mr. Lohmann, for the pending MPD amendment. That being said, I've seen the communications between Mr. Lohman, the property owner, and the county. Um requesting that M PD conditions thirty-seven, thirty-eight, and thirty nine be removed. I understand that the estates HOA, which is the neighboring HOA to where my client proposes

2:27:27to do a development project, has also made that same request. We are okay with those requests. We propose to do a a development here and purchase a portion of the golf course to use for parks and ponds and floodplain compensation. That's what my client and then there's all these other issues about Mr. Loman and trees and maintenance and these other things that have I now learn are a part of my amendment and that's why we're we're gonna have to ask for

2:27:57a remand. What the county attorney's office has told me is in order for those conditions to be removed, thirty-seven, thirty eight, and thirty-nine that it needs to be remanded back to the Planning Commission and some different language needs to be added to The reason why I want to go through this with you is My client's been at this for a year and a half. I've been representing this for a year and a half. And as we go now to back backwards agawards, now we're when we started out, this was a non-substantial amendment. Staff was going to administratively

2:28:27approve. Then it became a substantial amendment, which we went along with, and now we're at another crossroads where we have to go backwards. So, but I want you to understand why we're having to remand to the extent that you're able to give any direction as we go through this next process before it comes back to you. The reason for the remand Is that uh the the uh conditions that are being asked to rem be removed, thirty-seven, thirty-eight, and thirty-nine. are

2:28:58address agricultural use and maintenance in the event that the HOA HOA's do not accept the gift. Of their respective portions of this old golf course. And actually in reality, it's really just in case in the event that the fairways doesn't accept their portion of the golf course because the enclave has already voted eighty seven percent of their membership have said we want to accept this gift of this property. So this So this what if is the scenario that we're talking about in thirty-seven,

2:29:29thirty-eight, and thirty-nine. Let me just remind you how this proposed gift to these HOAs has come about. Obviously the property owner is agreeable to do that, but it's actually through my clients, Ryan Holmes proposed development. Which includes the purchase of a portion of that former golf course for ponds and parks, that the option for the HOAs to be gifted their respective portions. Of the old golf course is facilitated. Ironically, we keep getting stopped and stalled and going backwards now. And

2:29:59we can't actually facilitate, my client can't facilitate the option for those HOAs to be gifted this property without the approval of this amendment, which we're now going to go backwards on. But understanding that that's okay, we just want to get through this. Um I do think part of the problem here, and I'm really puzzled by it, is that we have the Enclave who's actively working Um to get this property and supporting this effort and this amendment And but the fairways is I don't know where the fairways

2:30:29is. Are they you know are they here today? I I've never talked to the HOA, I haven't seen them in any of our public hearing. And um So we're doing what if conditions, and we're now gonna go backwards to do what if conditions, what if the HOAs don't take the property that they've been offered as a gift. You know, all the years I've been doing this, we have many golf course situations. This is the first one where it's actually where the homeowners can control their own destiny and take the property. We haven't had that situation. But there but now we're

2:31:00still having this issue of what ifs because the Fairways HOA hasn't stood up and said we want to take it like the Enclave has. So we're in this what if. What if the air fairways HOA doesn't take accept the gift? What do we do with the agricultural use? What do we do with the maintenance?

2:31:18Well I think the idea of remanding it is remanding it so I can change my application to allow for the agricultural use of the property so that the permitted use in addition to all the things that I've added relative to my client's proposed development, we also add in there the agricultural use. The significance of adding that in is that then if the HOAs don't want to accept the gifts, or HOA in this this standpoint, 'cause it's really just the fairways, then Lowman, the conditions would read that Lohmann can maintain the status quo,

2:31:48which is agricultural use tree farm harvesting and um and that m you can't use your mainten your maintenance ordinance, you cannot enforce that against agricultural. So To me that's what I m I have to do is to amend my application to allow for agricultural use so that then it's clear that if in the what if situation, if the homeowners, the Fairways Home O Homeowners Association doesn't want the gift, But then the

2:32:19we know what the rules of the game will be and that'll be the status quo would be maintained.

2:32:24Barbara, who's saying it has to go back to the Planning Commission?

2:32:27David Goldstein, which I

2:32:29W Why? Can we not make these decisions here?

2:32:32No, you can't.

2:32:33Yeah, no, it's I I looked at it.

2:32:39They did not advertise that the recommendations, so therefore the recommend the public hearing that was held below. And the recommendation you got from Planning Commission did not include the use that suddenly in the eleventh hour is wanted to be added to this application.

2:32:58Let's go a little further, Mr. Chairman Mariano.

2:33:00Go ahead.

2:33:01Yeah. When they shut the golf course down, they put trees all the way through, through the ponds, through everything else, shut the golf course down. Um And that was gonna be it. they then turned it to an ac uh a tree farm. Yeah. And we had no control over it.

2:33:19Staff found in the development agreement, if you think way back, we had a development agreement to go for an assisted living facility. In it it showed the matrix. It showed what could be where. And in no time could he be allowed to by the d development agreement to turn it into A tree farm. He had to come back to us. And that's when this conversation started. So Bring it bringing it forward, that's where we're at. So your staff says that a agricultural tree farm was not compatible with this.

2:33:46Uh do you think the residents would rather have had an assisted living facility in their backyard versus a

2:33:51forest? That's a separate parcel uh not talking about the golf course. It just happened to be part of the M P U D Across the way there's a assistant. It's got nothing to do with the golf course. Just happen to be there, but in the development agreement

2:34:05So can't

2:34:11there was fear between arsenic they did arsenic testing. I think that was pretty well resolved. One of the things that was out there is oh you got those all the stormwater ponds have trees in 'em. those trees and storm events, when the trees get older and older and older, they start collapsing, they start falling down Could cause major issues and you're also shrinking the amount of drainage that you have cap cap capability of coming in. Now, I'll just say this now because again, I thought this was getting remanded and didn't know we're gonna have this whole discussion, but being all we're laying all this state

2:34:41laying us all this out. I was told in agreement with staff that they agreed to take all the trees out of the stormwater ponds. Good. I was told they were gonna stick with sixty foot lots. Good. Um the agriculture use change to allow them to go take the trees out and they shall be allowed to go clean the trees out when they want. I'm good with that too. So I don't know why all these other changes happen but As far as the remand goes, if the county attorney says gotta go back for that reason, so be it.

2:35:14The issue is The what if scenario. What are the rules of the game if the Fairways HOA doesn't take their gift?

2:35:23Are they are they here? Do they do we know if they want it or not? And then it doesn't matter?

2:35:28They're all right there. They haven't formally acted. So if you

2:35:31Well can we ask if Fairway is here? I mean why would they not want that? So what maybe they could speak and we could find does that help any, Barbara?

2:35:41I'd love to know what they're doing.

2:35:42Yeah, so let's let's hear from Fairway. And then maybe we don't have to remand it back.

2:35:48Come forward and state your name and address. And if you were sworn. And if and if you're sworn, because he's probably one of those things. Name and address and if you've sworn.

2:35:59Yeah, my name is Jack Brummett and I live at [address removed] in the subdivision of the Synod Weston. I'm also the president of our homeowners association of four hundred and eighty homes.

2:36:12Okay.

2:36:12We we have accepted Have you been sworn? Yes. Okay. So you you're from the estates? I am from the estates. Okay, if you look for Fairway Elf. Right. it's like. I'm just speaking up as one of the HOAs who have accepted the S.

2:36:28Okay, so we need to hear from the Fairway HOA. I think I think that is that's what we need to hear from 'cause I think we're good with everybody else. And if no one's here? Is anyone here for the right-of-way? Wait. Are you coming up to speak? Okay. From Fairway?

2:36:51Name and address and if you've been sworn.

2:36:53I haven't been sworn in.

2:36:55Okay. If you would please raise your right hand and if anybody else that plans on speaking has not been sworn, please stand and raise your right hand. Okay. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, so help you God. Yes. Okay, thank you. And then you

2:37:09can see it.

2:37:12You can bend it down.

2:37:13Bend it down.

2:37:15Eric's helping. Come in to help. There you go. There you go. And then if your name and your address, please.

2:37:21Hi. Annette Pelicano. [address removed].

2:37:29Okay.

2:37:31I'm just up here to tell you I am on the board of the HOA. I'm not here representing them. I'm representing myself as a homeowner. But I'm on the board. Okay. Merry Christmas.

2:37:46I don't have any answers for you. I don't. I don't know if the board that's there now we're having elections soon, but uh the board that's there now hasn't made a decision on whether to take the land

2:38:01or not. So we're

2:38:04We are.

2:38:05Okay, um Barbara, do you mind standing up there with her? Maybe you guys so uh does I guess you can't give a they they have to acknowledge that they wanna accept a gift or it just stays as it is. How

2:38:18So pardon me. So I think what you need to do is say what if ha what happens if they don't take the gift? That's where we're at. That's where we're at. Because Mr. Loman, the property owner, is saying, if they don't take the gift, by the way, Mr. Loman said, I'm going to give my property away. And Mr. Loman is saying Well can I read his letter? I've never spoke to him, but I can read his letter to you all. He's saying if they don't take the gift I am asking to maintain my status quo, which is I can have an ad exemption My trees are fall

2:38:49under agricultural use and I don't have the normal maintenance obligation that I would have if it's not agricultural. That's what he's saying. So he's he's saying don't buy these conditions numbers thirty seven, thirty eight, and thirty nine, change my status status quo just because the HOA won't take So it's all it's kinda like an option. It's like okay either They take it as a gift or he gets to maintain the status quo and you guys stop fighting with them because right now you th you've had enforcement actions against them, you've s

2:39:19staff spent a gazillion hours on this, I spent a year and a half on it with your staff. I think it the clear options are HOA takes it or he's allowed to you'll stop fighting with him and he can have his trees and his agent and

2:39:32if he's not ag then he's paying property taxes on land he can't really do anything with. So he so as a ag person, it's gotta stay ag. 'Cause what

2:39:45Currently is under dispute whether it's ag or not. not. From a zoning standpoint.

2:39:50What we would do with this remand is clean up the paperwork. So if the board board approved the the new paperwork, it wouldn't be dispute anymore.

2:39:57That's correct.

2:39:58Because the county would be getting out of it saying, All right, it's two clear options. It's either the HOA takes it or Mr. Luman's gonna keep doing what he's doing today and we're gonna stop fighting with him. and stop using public resources because if the HOA doesn't want to main to have their own destiny public and the county and staff need to get out of it.

2:40:16But I was

2:40:16under the

2:40:17impression that the trees were put in there without county approval.

2:40:22Well that's the dispute. No, it's not. Because we're trying to resolve the thing.

2:40:28I'm not I don't have a dog in that race. Mr.

2:40:30Chairman

2:40:30Mariano.

2:40:32When this course was shut down They went out and put trees all the way through, straight line shot all the way through, through the ponds. There was no approval through the county to do it.

2:40:42But when when do we have to ask

2:40:43get approval for people

2:40:44to plant trees?

2:40:46Then he went to go get a agricultural tree farm.

2:40:50Go ahead. Mr. Chairman, if I may. So You have to have agricultural zoning to do agricultural.

2:41:04Have A agricultural permitted use portion of it, like some do. Okay.

2:41:13But let

2:41:13me ask you

2:41:13a

2:41:13question.

2:41:17That this property does not have agricultural.

2:41:20But do you have to have ag to plant trees on your property?

2:41:24Yes, if you're going to be green belted and try and have a and have a

2:41:29taxes.

2:41:31Civil culture operation, which is what mister Loman has alleged he would do is doing it is doing We abated that they've up they appealed the zoning administrators determination. about whether or not they had an ag ag exempt uh an ag use. We abated that all because this zoning application was going to resolve it. and was going to take ag off the table. As

2:42:02I said that Mr. Loman at the last minute sent an email in to staff that said He wasn't good with that. And that puts the applicant who has in a precarious position of What do they do now?

2:42:19So what um uh so I did speak to Mr. Loman. Um May or may not have ever met him. I think I might have met him Somewhere. But not in a formal meeting. Um so I wouldn't know what he looks like. But um I did have a conversation with them. Uh what is the difference between conservation and ag? Because I think he said he would be okay with cons a designation of conservation. And I You know, if

2:42:50he's here.

2:42:50Well, I I think the way to resolve this is I'm not speaking I don't represent him, but looking at this, what I do, like how do I get this resolved so we're not still here doing this uh month after month Is that We make agriculture we we basically Say the status quo is what he's doing today is now permitted under this amendment. Again, we gotta we gotta go one way or another. Either these HOAs take this or Mr. Loman. uses his property like he is now. I I mean i if not we're always gonna be in the middle

2:43:21of it, like trying to do something in between. And that's and so I think what you do is You you put it out there and you're clear. And I think one thing to the H Fairways to their, you know, maybe defense is that We probably haven't been clear, you know, what actually are their options. And if you're clear by my paperwork, if I remain if we remand, that it's option A It's gonna be agricultural use, tree farm, bona fide ag, they can harvest and you can't go after them for maintenance, A. Or

2:43:51B, homeowners control your own destiny, take the property. It'll probably be easier for them to decide because we don't have this somewhere in between, like, okay, is it If we don't take it, will Loman have to do X, Y, and Z? Well the answer will be no. If you don't take it, Loman won't have to do X, Y, and Z. So if you clarify that paperwork, can And The other HOA, the H the state's HOA is okay with that 'cause they intend to take the property. So they're fine. They're like, change the paperwork, get rid of thirty-seven, thirty-eight, and thirty-nine, write whatever it is that County Attorney's

2:44:21Office says we have to write to clarify the paperwork. come back and then you can make you can formally say, I'm okay with it, the HUA doesn't take it, we're gonna stop chasing after Mr. I was

2:44:31just trying to fully not have to send it back to planning.

2:44:39If if the HOA doesn't take it, yes. yes.

2:44:41Okay. Okay.

2:44:41That would be what the paperwork would request. So So I guess they haven't done it yet. I have another question. They haven't nobody's approved that yet.

2:44:49About the mowing

2:44:50trying to clean up the paperwork so you would see what your two options are. Right now, we are are some hybrid of thing of and it's causing probably the uncertainty that's probably why you have your H O A Well I don't know why your H hasn't done anything.

2:45:05Excuse me. I can script the paperwork and make it very clear.

2:45:08Did he do paperwork to turn this land into before he planted it? into agriculture use. Did he ask permission to be able to do that?

2:45:24So I could get it.

2:45:24I know with an orange grove. An orange grove in the past when an orange grove froze out You could put pine trees on that, aren't you? And it would because it was ag before. It already had agg on it. It's state act. But you're talking about an M P D They'd have a golf course on it, it's totally different. So you gotta ask permission

2:45:47I'm just trying to fix where we're at today. I'm not taking a position that's a good idea. Okay, what he did was right or wrong. I don't I'm just trying to move forward. Again, my if my client backs out of this contract, the offer the gift of this property goes away and everybody just starts fighting again and you all continue to spend resources going after Mr. Loman. I, through this me, through representing a developer who is going to develop a pors purchase this property and facilitate the gift to these homeowners associations, that's

2:46:17the resolution that gets everybody moving forward in in my my opinion.

2:46:22The only problem with that is There's no guarantee that they accept this property that it could be changed to AG. Which would lower the taxes on it.

2:46:34If they take it, is it conservation or what is it to the homeowners association? Someone'd

2:46:39have to buy a

2:46:39land of

2:46:39the easy.

2:46:40It would be open spa open space and or park, common

2:46:43space.

2:46:43So

2:46:44common space. I Okay. Um isn't there a question about mowing heights? Uh isn't there some restriction here that requires the HOAs to mow it? Yes,

2:46:55that's

2:46:55part

2:46:55of

2:46:55the restriction which is in your wiz which is in this approval is that of your ordinance forty two dash one. And it says MODA eight inches.

2:47:06Is is it the whole thing that has to be mowed or just a perimeter?

2:47:10I'm thinking it's the perimeter.

2:47:12Because I remember that being an issue and what I talked Talk to people.

2:47:17Terry would know probably what's I think it's fifteen.

2:47:20Where's

2:47:21David?

2:47:23Uh Mr. Chairman Mariano. Yeah. So let me ask a question because this is again I I mentioned this, but Barbara didn't want to Barbara didn't want to answer it. I mean she doesn't even want to answer about What she knows as far as how these trees were just planted, but the other thing was.

2:47:36I don't know. I swear under oath I do not know. Okay.

2:47:41All right. So 60-foot lots. That was agreed to for meeting I had with staff, not direct. Is that still agreed to?

2:47:47So this MPUD modification has nothing to do with the R four property. The R4 property where we're developing is already R4, and the R4 zoning district minimum lot size is 60 by 120. This MPUD amendment has nothing to do with lots because it's already zoned, but we're not intending to change the R4. zoning sixty five hundred twenty lots.

2:48:07Uh let me ask Tammy a question.

2:48:16And I've I've read maybe two different agendas, so in this you've got specific uh statements about the What can be built in the multifamily, et cetera? Why is that in our document?

2:48:29I'm sorry, I didn't quite understand your question.

2:48:31You've got you have things referenced in here, but what can be built as far as multifamily?

2:48:35Multifamily.

2:48:35That's what I was.

2:48:40None of that has changed. That's original. We are not modifying any of that. There's not going to be any multifamily on these golf course areas. There's not going to be anybody living on these golf course areas.

2:48:50But why would why would it be all restated in the document? Because what scares me is says this

2:48:55supersedes

2:48:56all other things

2:48:56in the document.

2:48:59We did not modify the conditions of approval for Beacon Woods East except to add that section regarding the golf course areas. That's the only thing that was modified. Everything else in there was already there.

2:49:12Okay, so no sixty foot lots have to there. No other developments were

2:49:16ran

2:49:17out.

2:49:19There's no M no Townhomes or anything else going in. Okay.

2:49:23No residential in the Gulf course areas at

2:49:24all. Okay. When we talked initially I got word that the stormwater ponds were gonna be cleaned out. Not the uplands part, just the stormwater ponds where the drainage goes. That's what I was told, and now I see I am hearing it's not true.

2:49:38Because staff could not get behind that because the Land Development Code, the comprehensive plan. Everybody else is all for treats. We cannot be setting a PDD cannot be setting a precedent to just blanket remove trees. So still, let me let me stop you for a second. Let me stop you for second to make that determination.

2:49:59Let me stop you for a second. So we're looking at a M P U D.

2:50:05We're looking at MPUD that had a giant Probably a 40-page stormwater plan showing about 120 acres of stormwater ponds all the way through it. Where all the Drangers gonna

2:50:16go.

2:50:18So we get an MPUD that's existing, as you just said, all the conditions that were there. And it shows all the stormwater from all these homes that are so tightly compacted that have no other drainage except to the golf course. So all the water's gonna flow to the golf course. On the back of even that one road right there on

2:50:36I guess tennis and then we're not going to be able Danbury Lane I'll say. That's like the old first hole. All the way through there, that whole ditch that goes right behind these homes is now Loaded with trees.

2:50:51I want to finish, then you can answer me. I want to finish. So all the drainage that's here. all the way through that was designed to take all the water from all those homes all the way from Five A Road, and the easy. All the way down 'cause it all flows down to this one area. And now we're gonna go put trees in there. So if we have a series of wet events in a few years and maybe twenty, thirty years down the road, And all these trees get saturated, so much so they now all topple over. Now that's gonna fall on the estates. And

2:51:21it could happen the same thing over on Uh the uh the fairway oaks where they have these giant, giant holes where you have to hit from one area to another area, and all these fairways that are lined up with all these trees that are now gonna start toppling over. Hurricane comes in with wet conditions, they're all going down. Now you've got the burden to HOA. as these trees also grow and grow and grow, they're taking up capacity designed for these stormwater areas, specifically engineered many years ago with this MPUD. So you say you're

2:51:52all about trees and all that good stuff, et cetera, but you're about we should be looking at the stormwater drainage and do calculations. What's gonna happen with all this these trees if they do fill up, if they do grow up. Let's say no storm's come for thirty years. What is going to happen if the storage capacity is already built in and already approved? These people bought into a plan, and now in all the stormwater areas, you're going to let trees go that could cause them liability. And I would think that that partly was why Fairway Oaks is afraid of taking those trees. I mean taking those. Fairways,

2:52:23because right now we're not going to be able to They're all full of trees in all the stormwater areas.

2:52:28Thank you, Commissioner. Yes, that is uh something that on f uh we understand exactly what you're saying. We've seen similar situations that sometimes there are pros and cons to those. Um in this particular situation, given some of the recent discussions by the board and some of the information on the plan, we as staff did not feel comfortable making that decision. But if this board wants to direct us to consider that, we can certainly do that as we take this back to planning commission.

2:52:50So I'd as soon remand this back into the conditions that already been stated and also to study the stormwater plan that was already approved and what the effect would be to allow all these trees as pine trees in the stormwater ponds. If they want to put other trees in there, I think that's a good thing. And we can do that through even a tree mitigation fund. I'd even sponsor that. But to have pine trees and stormwater ponds to me does not work.

2:53:11Did Wouldn't that would that be a Swift mud issue?

2:53:16Swift Mud will not rule on it. Well

2:53:18that's Swi that's Swi that's that's a Swift MUD issue. Taking away your messing with your master stormwater drainage plan, right? Talk to me.

2:53:30Swift Mont has a five year old Pond inspection program. And so every five years a professional engineer has to sign off that the ponds are functioning as they intended.

2:53:40It's only five? I thought it was two.

2:53:43It's five.

2:53:44Okay, so they have to sign off so someone has to inspect those ponds.

2:53:50That's correct. That's correct.

2:53:51So do they have an issue with trees and ponds?

2:53:56It all depends on the location. It depends if they're dry. Are they perennially wet? Um species of tree. I mean there's all kind of variables with Jimmy.

2:54:07Or tell talk to me.

2:54:09So I I think uh what Mr. Mazer was saying is is we we get uh it's really a situationally specific decision that they make in that regard. What type of tree, what's the location, what type of pond

2:54:20is it?

2:54:23Anyone? Somebody

2:54:25talk about

2:54:26both your staff's been out there and I think people want to explain this to you better than me. Your staff's been out there and looked at it, and Swift Mud's been out there. I'll let maybe a couple of people that know about that tell you about that.

2:54:38Uh if you're gonna speak I need your name and address.

2:54:42My name is Jeff Baumgartner. I'm from Hudson.

2:54:45Okay, we have m mail from you. Pardon? I think we have

2:54:49some mail from you.

2:54:51You should send the mail.

2:54:52I just while we are on the subject of trees, I just wanted have a little bit to say.

2:55:01Yes, I have been sworn in.

2:55:05Thank you. You may proceed.

2:55:07Okay. Oh. Going back to the question about all these trees, those trees I witnessed it. being put in by the state of Florida Agricultural. Okay. They're pretty smart. They probably had a lot more education than everybody that we know about trees. They came with a over a million dollar piece of equipment and precisely put those trees in, spaced them apart. There's they're experts at building tree farms.

2:55:38They would not have gone down into drainage ditches if it was not okay to put 'em in. Second of all, if we're worried about flooding and drainage, these trees are gonna suck up so much water. That there's going to be a less of a drainage problem by a long shot. There's no problem with the drainage ditches. Having trees in 'em, they'll only drain faster, which helps Hudson Avenue, and every place else it drains. So I guess all I'm saying is

2:56:08I watched this whole thing go. It was done with precision. The state Of Florida's agricultural division knows a whole lot more about what they're doing. They wouldn't have done something. that was not going to be a good project, a safe project, a project that is not going to be a problem, but is going to give us more green space. This development that they're looking at building right now. Is incredible. What else is being built anywhere around

2:56:39West Pasco that they did not tear down every tree, make concrete jungles? This developer is going to put parks in. It's going to have green space. We're going to have younger people coming in, living in these homes. They're going to learn about nature. We're going to have more oxygen. Trees are good. Trees are not a problem. Trees gotta stay there. unless the developer makes something better for it, like a playground, a path. the houses. This

2:57:10will be the most incredible development that Hudson has seen in thirty years. And yes, it needs trees. Thank you.

2:57:20All right, so there's nothing we can do, it has to go back.

2:57:25The Christmas gift of time.

2:57:27Mr. Chairman Christmas Gibbs. Uh I would since this is I would take public comment before you remand. Okay. Right. If that's the desire.

2:57:39I am signed up and I've sworn in. Give your name and address and if you've been sworn. My name yes, my name is Jack Brummet. [address removed]. in the subdivision of the estates and reserve. I'm also the president of our HOA representing 480 homes.

2:58:04I appreciate the opportunity to uh address uh this panel and the And uh Explain our position. Uh As you may know, on the on Janewere twenty first. uh our associates have met and voted to by as a p a percentage of eighty seven percent. voted to accept the twenty five acres that have been offered to us. We're excited about that, and we're excited

2:58:34because this. the development of the enclave of Beacon Woods solves problems for us. It takes care of the maintenance on nine fairways. uh that have been not been taken care of in the last four and a half years. uh it affords us the opportunity We take care of five fairways. from ourselves. So that's fourteen of the f fairways. It in fact it's all of the course golf course, old golf course in our community.

2:59:05And we've been dealing with this for four and a half years and we want We we're we're we're ready to move on and we want to move on. Um

2:59:16Because of the continuing delay of this and it looks like it's trying to be delayed again. We went on a and and Work uh d deal with m Mr. Loman and have leased the twenty-five acres that we hope will be conveyed to us eventually. We've bought insurance, liability insurance for it. We went out and spent seventeen thousand dollars for a commercial lawnmower. uh to ta take care of this. Он левенто новенбер.

2:59:47We ask for on a Saturday we ask for volunteers from our a community to come and help clear out three of the fairways so we could begin mowing. We were hoping for ten or twelve people. We had forty-eight people show up that morning to help clear these fairways. Uh they work themselves to the bone. in the for in that morning and at the end of the day, at the end of the morning of of work th their question to me was when c you know when can we do this again

3:00:17and have a community work day and finish this job. We're we're re we want to move on. And we're ready to do that. Um

3:00:28Having said this, uh and and uh I s I had the same question that the attorney had before. Uh we have some concern with in the in this petition that was put up we have concern about thirty seven, thirty eight and thirty nine paragraphs. which actually prohibit us From from harvesting any of these trees. Uh W we have to harvi have a harvest because it's It's good forestry ma uh you know management and It's

3:00:59also makes it safer for b from fire and And and such.

3:01:05Okay, um You have another I need a little more time here. Yeah, that was that wasn't it? I'll let you have some more time. We we want uh we're concerned about these. Uh thirty eight says we can't we're prohibited from harvesting. We we need to harvest, we need to clean you know, thin these things out from time to time. Paragraph 37 says we've got to keep it mowed to thir Thir to eight inches. We can't do that. We we we We have every intention of keeping it for

3:01:36most of it four eight four inches to five inches high, but there's areas where we can't we can't mow and we have to go in with wheat eaters. even in the trees, there's rows of trees, some of them are they're three foot apart. We we can't get in between 'em. We th it's gonna get more than eight inches. So That's reason I asking that for this thirty seven to be removed. from this from this document. The other thing I'm in I'm in agreement. We can't, you know, ask for ag again,

3:02:06but We should be able to to to ask for something to give us some relief from the easement. So part of the reasons

3:02:15part of your plan is to remove some of those trees so you can mow in between,

3:02:19right? Yes. We will. And and For us to do it as a homeowners, uh volunteers to go out there with their saw and saw these things down, i it the companies come in and do this for you. They'll they'll do it for free for the for the access to the trees and make mulch out of 'em or whatever, but We can't have our hands tied. And we've got almost ten thousand trees in this in this twenty five acres, short just short of that. And this

3:02:47Do you have a do you have a problem if it's not green belted? Big pardon? Do you have a problem with this twenty five acres if it can't be green belted? Does that mean the taxes would be higher than they

3:02:59are

3:02:59under

3:02:59the Well we're a non for profit anyhow, so it doesn't really make any difference as for regarding taxes to us. Okay. All right. So that's not a that's not an issue. Not an issue. Not being able to live to the codes of the county. Uh keeping it at eight inches. and end up being fine like Mr. Lone was fine because he he didn't meet the coach. We I just don't want to subject our uh homeowners associations to to that put that b put us in that position. Okay.

3:03:32We want to move on. Okay. I and I encourage you to vote yes on this uh amendment or this petition. Uh but Take out some of these paragraphs that hinder us from really doing what we need to do. Okay. Thank you for service and thank you for consideration of what I've asked for.

3:03:55Thank you. Jack, hang on for a minute, Mr. Chairman.

3:03:57Go ahead.

3:03:58So I I think there might be some confusion about what has to be maintained. I think it's just the edge perimeter around the property, not in the woods, in the trees or any of that. It's just the edges. That's all that requirement of the eight inches is. Yeah, but

3:04:14this They want to take better care of it than just that. And to do so they've got to remove like a row of

3:04:24And and part of the clause that's in there, it lets you do that. They took away the May and now it's a shall. So you can do that. Yeah, I

3:04:31I want to be a to allow a c a a company that I I guess you call them tree harvesting companies, let them come in and do the thinning and And and if if we if we can make money on it that's good but it in there for it cost us money. There's there's like I said, there's thousands of trees right and we're not we're up to mowing. But we're not up to cutting down trees and Doing that. To be allowed to work with those trees.

3:05:04I have them go look at it, try to like address what you wanted to do, and I think they have addressed that, so that you can harvest out if you like to harvesting is not the word, but to thin the trees out, you can do that. It is in there. So that that is that is okay to do that. And again, just the border is all that the low grass maintenance is.

3:05:21Okay.

3:05:24Um

3:05:25you have two more signed up. I

3:05:26have two more signed up. Is this gentleman here one of them?

3:05:29I do not know.

3:05:33Well what?

3:05:36State your name and address. I'm back again. Um I live at [address removed]. I've been there for thirty years. Um I'll make this real short. Everybody said what needs to be said. Yes, I have been.

3:05:52Okay, thank you.

3:05:53Um Just to give you a quick background. If you've been around here long enough, you know these names. Magnolia Valley, River Ridge, Quail Hollow, Quail Ridge, The Dunes, Sea Pines, Spring Hill, Seven Hills, Timber Oaks, Forest Hills, Gulf Harbors, Pebble Creek. They're gone.

3:06:19Golf courses are gone. And the people that live on these communities probably don't have very many options. This is an opportunity for you guys to come up with a With a a plan that a lot of people could probably follow. So With that said, I uh I am uh In favor. Of the proposal. And uh I wish you the best. Merry Christmas. Okay. Merry Christmas.

3:06:45All right. The next individual signed up is Tim Driscoll.

3:06:54I have been sworn in. Okay. My name is Tim Driscoll. My address is [address removed]. Out of the back of my house I look across the Fairway, And what I will say to you right now is that The trees may be a concern. And then going forward. You know, you might have flooding, but I understand the trees absorb it. And I also understand that Florida has tornadoes that could come by and take those trees and throw them somewhere. But for trees to go down, it takes a

3:07:24lot. So personally I like the trees. But what I wanted to mention is last Wednesday I sent an email. to my commissioner as well as the other commissioners. And I was very, very pleased in a response that I got. both from Sonia Walling and Tammy Snyder, They gave me timely and informative information regardless what you're speaking about today, and it saved me a lot of time of tracking it down, and I'm not sure how that gets recognized,

3:07:55but I was very impressed. By the professionalism and the information that I received from those folks, remind me being in the private sector, frankly. All right. So I wanted to share that with you. And and I did just wanna note that in what I received from the attorney. They didn't have the PDD number. They had an RZ number. And you folks use the PDD number in your in regards to your agendas, not this

3:08:25RZ number. And all I would request is that maybe going forward that we get a notification from an attorney that it includes the PDD number as well. Um in regards to what you're speaking about today. Uh as Jack has said, this has gone on for years and years and years. There's a solution that that that's been presented, and if there's a way in which this can be figured out and people can move on with their lives, I would say go ahead and do it. And that's what I would ask you to take a look

3:08:55at. Unfortunately, the developer is stuck. Because the v the developer is being put in a position of where the owner is saying, you get this and we'll give you that. That's not the developer's issue. The developer's issue is doing what exactly what they did, which was to come to you and present their plan. Thank very much. Thank you.

3:09:17We

3:09:17have

3:09:17another gentleman wanting to speak.

3:09:19Everyone that was signed up has spoken.

3:09:22My name's Jeff Ming. Yes, I have been sworn in. My address is [address removed]. Um I bought my property in O eight. on the golf course, wanting to live on the golf course and retire. I lived on a golf course for 30 years in Iowa, where I came from, and I like the peace and senquility of it. Play the sport. My daughter's good at it. And A month I moved down here full time and What, nineteen? Middle of nineteen

3:09:53and found out that they're closing the golf course. Matt Loman was c closing the golf course. And that was kind of a kicking for my retirement or 'cause That's my peace and quiet. I'm right at behind, I don't know if you're familiar with playing the links, I'm right behind green number one. T off box number two. And so It's closed. It was kind of a bummer. Then here comes Matt Lohmann in, plants all these trees. And okay, we're gonna have a tree farm and

3:10:23back to uh The uh discussion is it is it uh Ag or is it conservative? Okay, so the state came in and planted thirty thousand trees. What did Mr. Loman pay in taxes? Did he pay agriculture or conservative? How did he pay last last time's taxes or whatever where he's at? Where I come from, if you put something in a tree farm, you can't touch it for 10 years. And that's I don't know Florida law, I'm not an attorney or anything. But it's just I'm right at where now I'm gonna have a a road in my backyard. I

3:10:53used to have peace and quiet in my backyard or my front yard, I have a road in my front yard. Now in my backyard I'm gonna have a road from Well there's two roads actually in these two hundred and fourteen or eighteen houses that's gonna be built there. It's gonna be a mess. There's traffic. Now I'm gonna have Two ponds. There are three ponds that are within two hundred yards of my house. I might as well throw away my bird feeder and get a bug zapper because it's It's silly. You're talking about green space. Why are we tearing down a hundred and twenty acres?

3:11:25Love. forestry where animals, insects, bugs, trees, birds, whatever live to this. Um I understand progress, but it's just uh Yeah, I don't know. Um

3:11:38Were you Were you a member of the golf course?

3:11:41No, I was not.

3:11:42Well that's I think that's kind of the buyer beware. If you join a golf club that I was

3:11:47if

3:11:47you join if you're

3:11:49moved down here in two thousand eight or I bought the property in two thousand eight. I retired and then I moved down here. Was I a member? It it it closed when I moved down here full time. So no I was not a member.

3:11:59The ones that I've s seen that have been able to maintain their golf courses. for the most part are the ones where the o the homeowners are have membership or are required to um be owners of the golf course of

3:12:16the golf course. No I d I mean I didn't I don't I think that's the right-of-way most

3:12:19of the other ones that's why they f you know that's why they failed. Unless they're really high-end well.

3:12:25Well that was in the we're here we're here today with a situation where you guys want to put in 214 houses and only two streets that come onto Hudson Avenue. So that's gonna be a traffic issue. And now I have You say we're gonna have a green space park or whatever, what do I have to climb the fence or walk a mile and a half to go around to get to that park? I mean, for being right there? I mean I don't get it. Some plastic cheesy fence that like behind uh Bayonet Point Hospital. They tore all that ground

3:12:55out what, two years ago? And here it sits, blank, you know, flat, nothing. So I just uh I don't know what to say. I'm just It's it's discouraging. My value of my house is gonna go down, market value. I came here to retire. And I don't you guys probably already have your minds made up and and deals made with Matt and whatever, so I just wanted to speak my two cents worth And uh yeah, I don't know.

3:13:26Well we're

3:13:27hearing you. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Or is anyone else gonna speak to this item after this lady? If you are uh if you are come up and line up behind her.

3:13:38Okay. So if anyone else is gonna speak that has not been sworn, please stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, so help you God.

3:13:49Yes.

3:13:50Okay, thank you.

3:13:51I'm B Salerno, [address removed]. I am also uh The treasure of uh H O A Friends of uh of Jack there. I know you have uh concern about the drainage and I understand that the property that we are that we the gifted property that we want to take over is not under Swift mode. However, I was also concerned about the drainage. So I contacted Mike

3:14:21Penn of the Florida Service Department and he was in my house and we went together in the golf cart and we toured the whole area or the area that we are concerned about. And he said it was the trees were more of a help than they were a hindrance, especially in the low learning areas by the stormwater drains, which I'm very close to one of them. He said no, he says that that is not a problem, the more the help. So I just thought that

3:14:51was important information. So 'cause I was concerned about that also.

3:14:56Yep. Roots roots are good for rainwater.

3:14:59Thank you.

3:15:03My name is Rich Parks. I live at [address removed].

3:15:10Ben Sworn. He

3:15:12was

3:15:12yes he was.

3:15:14When I first moved down here it was a golf course. After the golf course closed, it started growing weeds and stuff in there, and I decided to to mow that lawn. I spent five thousand dollars on a lawnmower. I've been mowing

3:15:28One, three, and four for the last three and a half years. And if we take this thing over, I've already decided to become the committee chairman for taking care of all the maintenance. I asked for volunteers. I got 15 people that want to cut the grass out there. I think that's remarkable. And if I think if we blow this deal, I know for sure it's going to be terrible because they're going to make that Hudson a commercial. It's going to be all kinds of businesses and stuff. You gotta get I mean, we are gonna lose a great thing. Where are we gonna get all this property for free?

3:15:58I I just it's a no-brainer. Let's work it out. Get it done. Thank you.

3:16:05Okay. Thank you.

3:16:10Yeah. There's no one else signed up, so

3:16:14nobody else signed up? No sir. Okay. Okay, so do

3:16:17we have to have a motion here? Do we have to have a motion to send it back to the Planning Commission? Yes. Can we have more discussion, please? No, uh they're saying by law we have to. I was trying to find a way to not send it back. But we have to, right Barbara? I mean We can't do that. find a resolution today. You can't talk from the

3:16:37audience, please. You have something to say? Yes, Mr. Chairman.

3:16:42So I was I was trying to find pictures from that that I took from a storm event that just showed all the water that goes in to those those ponds that are there.

3:16:52When it rains they fill up. That's how it's designed to go, all the way through. And all I'm looking at is the pine trees that are in there. And frankly, I don't mind if we come back in later on. Through a tree mitigation fund in the right-of-way. Put other trees that are more acceptable in a low lying area, cypress trees, whatever it may be.

3:17:10Why

3:17:11would we do anything there?

3:17:13So the M P U D. that's going on has stormwater ponds the way it was designed. The reason he's not building on all this golf course that he's giving away Because there's not enough room. They're all designed so narrow, so tight that you can't build. If you were out there you'd see it for a golf year, no. Have you have you played it? Mm-hmm. Anyway, so I I don't know the pictures. But if you look at right here, this is a picture of a tree at uh just a Down at Fort Myers as far as there's a trench that's there? You got a big oak tree? Those

3:17:43things are all over the place.

3:17:48Because I'm worried in twenty thirty years That's their worry. That's not our worry. They can cut 'em down if they want. I don't know why you're why you're getting all wrapped up in that. that.

3:17:59Because in twenty thirty years, would you let me finish and I'll tell ya?

3:18:05I have to leave at 5 30. I have a daughter who's having her job replaced. So I'm I'm gonna have to get up and go here

3:18:10in a second. I'm sorry for the convenience. It's only been a five years I've been working on it too. And thank you for a compliment to my assistant Sonia. Because she's been involved with it, looking at this every step of the way. And Colleen was out there the first night Then we had a meeting out there to everything shut down. So I appreciate the trees. The trees are great. In the low areas, I'm aware that when they grow. They're gonna topple over a storm like this, and then who's gonna have to pay for it? Who's gonna have to take a tree down? Who's gonna move the tree around? Does it become a forest hazard? That's my concern. And if we if we gotta remember

3:18:40audience.

3:18:41Yeah. If we've got to reman this anyway, what I suggest we do is add the condition in. Let's have Swift Mud, the county staff, Go look at is it safe for long term to have the pine trees where they're put? Gotta go back anyway.

3:18:59I I just want to call the question. What's the parliamentary procedure? Because we've this is going to come back to us.

3:19:06Well question

3:19:08we got

3:19:08a motion

3:19:08and a second. How do it's is it endless debate? I mean the

3:19:13only way they this is coming back

3:19:14to

3:19:15us back to

3:19:16after it goes to the Planning Commission.

3:19:18Well that's

3:19:21If

3:19:22They wish to add agriculture as a use to this project. It has to go back to the Planning Commission and it's gotta be readvertised for that. Particular use. The appropriate motion in that case would be too much. remand it to the Planning Commission Yeah.

3:19:44Okay.

3:19:47So what's the pleasure of the board?

3:19:50So either so if we don't send it back to the Planning Commission their whole deal may fall apart. Because Mr. Loman is not gonna be party to a deal where he gets something back and what's he supposed to do with it? So, Um unless we agree we're not gonna go after him over any ag issues. Come forward, Barbara. I don't understand why we can't just say that here now, but you say we didn't advertise it for that.

3:20:15Yeah. Commissioner is the applicant's requesting a remand to the Planning Commission. We have to. I went over every scenario. I appreciate the support. I'd love for it to be done today. Um I mean you've heard the resident speak, so I think you'd be ready to vote, but I as the applicant need to ask for a remand.

3:20:33I think so. Okay. Looking for a motion.

3:20:37Um when you remand, uh won't want to fix that mowing requirement too.

3:20:43Yes.

3:20:44Move to remand with a full discussion about the mowing and stormwater issues in the trees in the trees. And

3:20:51possibly green belt or not green belt? No, that's not your call. That's not our pro okay. That's not our code. Okay. Motion on the floor. Okay. Got a motion on the floor? Second. And a second. All those in favor?

3:21:05Aye.

3:21:06Right? All opposed, like sign? Borough it passed the re remand back to the Planning Commission.

3:21:14Mr. Chairman

3:21:14Mariano.