A Resolution By The Board Of County Commissioners Of Pasco County, Florida, Establishing the Final Annual Non-Ad Valorem Special Assessment Rate and Adopting the Non-Ad Valorem Assessment Roll For The Oaks Park Municipal Service Benefit Unit

1:32:12Didn't I leave an item back here? So you've got sixty seven, which is the uh the MSBU.

1:32:24And go that. Okay.

1:32:26Sixty seven?

1:32:27Fifty seven. Sixty. Sixty-seven, excuse me.

1:32:31Yeah,

1:32:32that does have uh it's the oaks. Oh.

1:32:36It's from page fifteen. Page fifteen.

1:32:40Mr. Chairman, members of the board, we have approved publication of the hearing of this matter in the Tampa Bay Times on July 28, 2024.

1:32:52Good afternoon, Commissioner. Christina Cordone, Assistant Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources. Before you today is a resolution to establish the final assessment rate for the Oakes Park MSBU.

1:33:05Yeah.

1:33:09Um a little bit of backstory to this project. So the property is currently zone MF1 and it was approved to build 102 um units. Apartment units. Apartment units. On March 25th, 2014, the BOCC approved the an item to proceed with the acquisition of the property and to establish an MSBU.

1:33:37In June twenty f on June 24th, 2014, the BOCC adopted ordinance 14-10. That ordinance established the boundary and the MSBU for the property. After that ordinance was uh adopted, um there was a pause on the property because several legislators wanted to um apply for state funding to see if they could secure funding so the residents didn't have to be assessed for the property. And um unfortunately all those legislative

1:34:07asks were vetoed, so that funding was not received by the state. So after that happened uh in September twenty twenty-one, um our department took a uh an agreement to the board to establish the interlocal agreements for the tax collector. The property appraiser one was already established. In um in August twenty twenty two, um, we presented a resolution to establish the final rate of the MSBU for Oaks. And um at that

1:34:37board meeting um we received direction to confirm the boundary and potentially explore um surplusing the property. So after that, our department worked with the facilities department to look at potential avenues to surplus the property. And facilities presented an item in September 2023 to surplus the property. However, at that board meeting, we had several residents that spoke up and they wanted to kind of keep the original intent of

1:35:08the property, which was open space. um park element. So um here today um is us bringing this item back to the board um after we receive the direction to um not surplus it. So for today um the MSBU would be um $142.99 and that would be to reimburse for the acquisition cost of the property at $3 million and some maintenance and overhead costs for the first fifteen

1:35:38years. And then after that, the um assessment rate would drop to twenty-five dollars and that would be for basically maintenance and overhead costs. Um in um after we um looked at the boundary, we ultimately ended up uh hiring a survey and mapping entity to confirm the boundary for us because there were some questions on the boundary. So the legal description that was approved in ordinance 14-10, um that bound that legal description was given to a mapping

1:36:08and survey entity, and so they confirmed that this was the boundary. That was approved in that ordinance. And so ultimately that led to the MSBU boundary having 1705 units. And so before you today is um bringing you back the recommendation of moving forward with the MSCBU.

1:36:31Kill this. I just have one question that because I heard this morning in uh public comment that Someone stated they thought the boundary was not correct. So the boundary we're being presented today is correct?

1:36:44Correct. The boundary that you are presented today was confirmed by a mapping entity. Um they took the legal description that was approved by the ordinance and that was what determined that that shape that you see here today.

1:36:55All right.

1:36:58Mr. Chairman Mariano. Yes. So as the person talked and you l if you're looking at the map, you see the the red area right across the yellow line is property. Is that what the lady was talking about today? Do we know? One public comment?

1:37:14Keith Wiley, Director of Parks Recreation, Natural Resources. I wasn't here for public comment, Commissioner, so I'm not I'm certain.

1:37:24included. I I mean mean, while well, other other places on the outside were. And she was she was outside. I think she said she was outside and she was still included. So as much as the ordinance may be written correctly, is it it the way it should be? And and what would be the I mean looking at it,

1:37:38why are those

1:37:39interior processes like left out? Is it access or is it

1:37:42the other thing? Yeah, we we've been we've been investigating that question for I think for quite some time. So I have actually the memo back from uh 2014 and I'm just gonna attempt to paraphrase and and read from that memo because I think it gets to the to to the question, Commissioner. Um the the boundaries Basically the boundaries were determined by the neighborhood park definition that was in the comprehensive plan, which Ultimately basically gets to trying to serve uh residents providing a service within a half mile walking distance

1:38:12of the property, but only fifty percent of all of those in question. And based on us reviewing this multiple times and confirming the legal description that Mrs. Cordon uh uh just uh discussed. We feel that it meets the intent of the original, you know, the original boundary that was created. It it does appear that that that's why we get these questions all the time, but based on the original intent back from 2014, the existing plats at the time when this was c ordinance was created, we feel that it's it's accurate.

1:38:43So I think the term she uses as far as this the crow flies. Right. But if we were talking walking distance, that could explain the difference. Okay.

1:38:52Okay. But Keith, b based on what Christina said. You you all have compared The ordinance legal that was adopted by this board in two thousand fourteen To the people that are in the assessment role. And they match. That's correct, yes.

1:39:14Please talk into the light.

1:39:17Who was that? Can't speak from the audience. Uh

1:39:23I said you can't speak from the audience. Sorry. Um okay. Any other questions rather than the other thing?

1:39:36So do we have people signed up for this item?

1:39:39Yes, sir. We do have uh several. Uh first one on my list is Cindy Fargo.

1:39:53Cindy Fargo, [address removed]. After over ten years of objecting to the propriety of the MSBU, we welcome the fresh eyes of two new Commissioners on this issue. We trust you read our objections in detail. We reaffirm our contention that proceeding with this MSBU and related annual special assessment is illegal, unethical, and fiscally irresponsible. This MSBU was not necessary. There

1:40:23is no reason to have individual property owners on the hook to reimburse the county for paying off a developer 10 years ago from county general funds. The big bad developer is out of the picture. The county has owned the property since 2014 and has had the ability to recoup their general funds immediately by changing the zoning and deed restrictions to Ensure reasonable, compatible development and selling the property at a significant profit. The value of the property has increased substantially in 10 years. We

1:40:54recommend the parties who are demanding the property remain undeveloped purchase a property outright and annex the property to their common areas to own, control, and maintain in perpetuity. This MSBU was established as a funding source to recoup general funds used to pay off the developer. It was never about providing an essential service to the targeted property owners as required by statute. We contend this is an abuse of the BCC's authority to establish an MSBU, and this

1:41:24special assessment is illegal taxation, placing an undue tax burden on Southern Oak's property owners while providing the communities of Heritage Lake and Riverside Village with unjust enrichment. We are, in essence, paying for and maintaining additional common areas for their communities, although the county retains ownership of the property. Southern Oaks property owners already have 127 acres of common area to maintain. They have paid in excess of $1 million in HOA assessment fees over the past 10 years

1:41:54and maintain their common areas, including approximately $30,000 this year, to make the necessary improvements to their stormwater retention pond system. We have no need to pay for or maintain additional unimproved areas located outside of our community. The continued lack of transparency regarding the establishment, activation, and planned commencement of special assessments over the past 10 years is scandalous. The terms of this MSBU have not been properly presented to targeted property owners, and they never had the opportunity

1:42:25to vote on this issue at any stage. Reaching into someone's wallet without permission is a crime. This MSBU should be voided. We notified the BBC two years ago that we fall outside the prescribed one-half mile inclusion for this MSBU and should be removed from the Special Assessment Tauls. We are 0.75 miles away. That's not within a half a mile. Anyway, we uh request our two objections that were timely submitted on August 13. We read into the record. Thank you.

1:42:56Thank you for comments.

1:42:58Next person. Next person signed. Uh and again, I believe it's Gene Sipelli.

1:43:10Uh move to receive and file.

1:43:12Second.

1:43:13Got a motion second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Motion approved. Five O Yes, ma'am.

1:43:20Good afternoon. I'm Jean Safeli, [address removed]. My late husband and I retired to Pasco County in September nineteen ninety-three. The prices of new homes were reasonable. property taxes were low, Low cost homeowners and auto insurance were available, and utility costs were affordable. Fast

1:43:51forward thirty one years later. I'm ninety three years old. We seniors are faced with huge increases in all of the mentioned costs of housing plus the soaring inflationary costs of food and other living expenses. Seniors living on fixed incomes have difficulty adjusting to this new reality. Even some younger neighbors with two wage earners are questioning

1:44:21if they can afford to stay in their homes any longer. Many seniors are forced to take out reverse mortgage loans to cover their living expenses. And now the BCC wants to add to our financial pain by activating this MS. BU, which does not provide any essential service to property owners of Southern Oaks. The county

1:44:52is planning on adding to our taxes for road maintenance. The block walls surrounding our subdivision are crumbling and need repair replacement in the near future. This would require a substantial increase in our homeowners association fees. Can we count on surrounding subdivisions to pitch in on these costs? I think not. Sell the property to a developer

1:45:22subject to reasonable and compatible restrictions, or allow Heritage Lake and Riverside Village to purchase from the county if they choose. It has been twelve years and we are getting tired of this whole botched-up mess. Void this ill-conceived Oakes Park MSBU. Thank you.

1:45:49Our next person signed up. I'm a little confused. I believe Charlie Chuck at AOL.com. Ace.

1:46:08And your last name and name and address, please, sir.

1:46:15Yes, good afternoon. My name is Charles Eldred, E-L-D-R-E-D.

1:46:22Thank you.

1:46:23I live at [address removed]. And Heritage Lake. I was involved in this project I think we go we we really go back to about two thousand and five. But when we made this agreement in two thousand twelve and thirteen, it was my understanding that that we were gonna get this money from the count uh from the state Uh from two uh Mr. C Corcoran and Mr. Pasano, but That

1:46:53didn't come by

1:46:56Come truth. It was my understanding that probably by twenty fifteen we were gonna start paying this Dead off, and I'm Really in favor of uh Of the MSBU. Um but at the It's w been going on so long in that amount of time Heritage Lake is probably seventy five percent of the people at Heritage Lake have no idea what this was all about. Way back in two thousand and five up to two

1:47:26thousand and thirteen. And um I r I'm really not happy with the uh Six six hundred and thirty one th thousand uh six hundred and fifty dollar uh interest fee on this three thousand three million dollars. I really think the county's gotta look at this. and uh make some considerations because of the amount of time it's been since two thousand and twelve to two thousand and

1:47:56twenty four, uh collecting this money because Like I say at Heritage Lake, probably seventy five percent of the people have no idea What this was all about Back when And I know it goes back to two thousand and five. I'll answer any of your questions. Do you have any?

1:48:13Uh

1:48:14I

1:48:14I d I'm not sure it was two thousand and five, but were you part of the We Are Five Thousand Strong? Back in the beginning? Yes. Okay, yeah. All right. Thank you very

1:48:24much. Fifty five hundred's wrong.

1:48:26Fifty five hundred, yeah. We did a lot of work. Yeah. Thank you for your comments, sir. Thanks so much. Next

1:48:31person.

1:48:32We'll answer the interest to when everyone's done.

1:48:35William Day.

1:48:48William Day, [address removed]. Um Invasive species. I think I can put the Oaks on that list, because that's the name of the c apartment complex uh with four story buildings encompassing that forty acres of land. I don't think a lot of people realize what we stopped in that group fifty-five thirty-three going on about ten years ago. Not in my backyard. This has

1:49:18been going on. I don't know what happened if it falling through the cracks. We could have been ten years into paying this or however the time period was. It's a beautiful piece of land. I understand all the controversy around it. But uh I don't they were talking about bus routes going in there. They were talking about uh uh uh uh that can imagine the hundreds of people and the amount of traffic going in and out of there. There is an opening on the f east side of Amazon Drive

1:49:49that goes into that. We can open that up. So to mitigate some of that traffic if you'd like. Okay. Uh as far as zoning goes, it's zoned for and I don't know the terms, multi-family build building or whatever. Uh another idea and this is coming personal. I'm not speaking for the group, I'm talking personally, single family. If the county wants to sell it off, put individual homes in there, not four story apartment buildings with all that traffic and buses right in the middle of

1:50:19a neighborhood. Okay? It's been going on too long. It needs to come to an end. You guys are no you we see you've seen a lot of us from the fifty five thirty three group up here. Um And let's end this particular invasive species talking about the other uh thing that we talked about with uh that growth. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your consideration.

1:50:41Thanks for coming today. Thank you. Uh James Conlon. No clapping, please. James Conley.

1:50:51Mm-hmm.

1:50:56My name is James Conlin. I live at [address removed]. When I heard this What is up? A po was supposed to become a park. And a park is paid for by the whole county, not just a little small development. And it was supposed to be a park. What happened?

1:51:23Make your s you have to make your statements. We don't talk back to you on a Public comment. Excuse me? Just finish your statements, so

1:51:33That is my statement. It was supposed to be a park. Why isn't the whole county paying for it?

1:51:37Okay, well we'll answer that when everyone

1:51:39answer it when we get to our discussion. Thank you.

1:51:43Uh Fred Callucci.

1:51:58Fred Callucci. I live in Heritage Lake. [address removed]. I've lived there for the past twenty-eight years and in Pasco County for the last forty-five years. I'm against the charge and why am I against the charge? Well, Heritage Lake Has nine hundred and thirty two. Units are homes. It's a fifty five and older community. The majority are probably seventy, eighty, and ninety years old. I'm

1:52:28ninety two myself. However I think we should not be paying this extra tax. I don't care how you look at it. It is a tax because it comes on a tax bill. Heritage Lake has, as I said, nine hundred and thirty-two. The three million dollars that the county purchased here. Makes The charge for Heritage Lake One million nine hundred ninety nine uh ninety nine nine hundred uh ninety thousand dollars. Okay,

1:52:59we're paying almost two million dollars for the property. The balance goes to those in Riverside and those in Southern Oaks. It's not fair a few years ago you went to the state to get some funds and you fell. Uh we fell flat on our face. Our commissioners, our representatives didn't do so well. However, we could try that again. But the county owns this property. I don't think there's anybody here that would buy or or get a

1:53:29house and pay for it but not have an ownership. And here we are, seventeen hundred and five people. Paying for this property, but we don't have an ownership. So I'm asking that you take this off of the tax bill. If you want to make a park out of it, fine. You own the property. You can do whatever you want with the property. And just take it off and don't put that burden on Heritage Lake, Southern Oaks, or Riverside. Thank you.

1:54:01Well clapping. Uh next up Garth Esplan.

1:54:18Uh Garth Ashbaugh, [address removed]. I live in Heritage Lake. I spoke on this a year ago. Um I am one of the new guys uh in the subdivision. I've only been there a year. Um I understand nobody wants to pay money. Okay? I'm in I'm in support of this this thing, but nobody wants to pay for it. Uh nobody can uh thinks about uh what's gonna happen to their property values

1:54:49uh when a hundred apartments are built on the in their backyard. Uh nobody thinks about what it's gonna do to schools and to and to the traffic. Um I appreciate having the green trees and I appreciate I'm I'm about a block and a half away from the tr from the trees. Um I appreciate the wildlife that comes out of there. Um All I would ask is that um

1:55:19I I know about operating costs and overhoods. I'm an accountant and so

1:55:26I I assume I haven't seen the numbers, but I'm assuming these numbers are derived from allocations. I don't see where you're going to be spending a lot of money on that property. Uh I don't see where you've spent a lot of money on that property. Okay. Um so I would just encourage you to uh uh proceed and um finally put this thing to bed. Thank you.

1:55:55Mr. Chairman Mariano that are present. We do have uh Three um three persons online.

1:56:04There's some people that did not sign up that wish to speak, line up behind the podium, come forward.

1:56:14Are they

1:56:14have a long

1:56:15one? The ones that ran.

1:56:17Yes, sir. Name name and address for the records.

1:56:20I arrived late. Do I need to be sworn? No.

1:56:23This is not a sworn public hearing.

1:56:24Okay, fine. May my name is John Russell. I live at [address removed]. I've been living there about five years. If you look at your little plan up there, the red square

1:56:38Yeah.

1:56:41Right in the middle of that, that's where I live. And We already talked about the uh zoning which I think is multifamily M H five, something like that. My question on that is, will that zoning be changed to either a preserve or a park? Zone. So that's question number one. But for some of the other people here That вовин он твиніз протекціо беса If

1:57:11you build uh Forty multifamily ones in there, that's gonna be three to four hundred vehicles a day more in and out of there. We do not want Heritage Lake. going through to Amazon Drive or that would put through traffic in there with all of our walkers and bicycle people. And so we want it to stay as is. I also uh Want to work on the invasive species, but also to

1:57:41be able to give home to the wildlife that's there. Currently every morning and evening we have about eleven or twelve deer that come right on through our yard and there are at least ten endangered or threatened species that live in there. I would like to see that. Forty one acres protected for all of the future, I do not personally mind paying that $142. I think that is very reasonable. Thank you very much.

1:58:12No laughing.

1:58:17Marcus Coe, uh [address removed]. Um two thousand thirteen I was in Afghanistan, fifth tour between Iraq and Afghanistan. Sorry. Um I agree with paying this money. I don't want to see four-story buildings. We see it everywhere. Drive down 54. That's all you see anymore. I went to high school here. I remember when it was country roads, everybody loved it. Now we just approved Avalon to put

1:58:47the apartment buildings. Why are we putting more up in the same community? I have no problem paying the $144, but is Avalon paying it? They were approved to put 65 apartments there two years ago, because I was in here with a lot of the people I see out here fighting it. But the award saw it appropriate to put more apartments up. So are they getting tax from that from the days that it starts right now, like the rest of us? Are we being fair and impartial to everyone that stands? I understand some people are older. I'm younger,

1:59:17I've got a long time left. I understand. I'm not gonna be paying on it because I bought my house to be to come back to where my family lives. My dad, my aunt, my uncle. I'm invested in this community. But if we're gonna be invested in the community, the the board has to stand behind us. How are they standing behind us? I thought it was gonna be fifty fifty what the portion of it was paid for. The community was gonna pay half and the board was gonna be paid half. That's what I was told when I bought my property. Would it have stopped me from buying there? No. I love my community. I love my neighbors.

1:59:47Hell, half my neighbors don't even know my name, but they know my dogs. They know Rohan. They know Riley. Well they knew Riley. But they know them by just walking up. I will tell you the amount of uh traffic that has changed coming through my neighborhood, and I live on Nile. It's it's not an open-ended street. People fly down there. I'm at the point now I'm about to come in and ask if we can put speed bumps on my street because people are going too fast on it. I get worried that my dog's gonna get hit. I yelled at one guy, he backed up, he

2:00:18wanted to fight me because I was outside talking to neighbors and we got What do you do when you put 104 more people in there? How many cars is that? If you have 104 units, that's what? Two per apartment, right? Two more vehicles. There's three exits out of that community. f if you try to look 'em up. You've got Nile, you've got Heritage, and then you've got to go all the way down through the bottom to get to Starkey. There's three exits. You can't do this. Thank you for your time and consideration.

2:00:48No clapping.

2:00:52We're gonna have to say that a little more forcefully.

2:00:59Good afternoon. I'm Marlita Lasseter. I live at [address removed]. And I have been a resident of Pasco County for fifty seven years. Wow. Um I've seen Pasco County from the Sleepy Town. to what it is now. Uh urban development is good. But in the right places. Our neighborhood I've lived there for over twenty years. has

2:01:29been plagued with flooding. And this is a real essential part of why I have fought for The development of the MSBU. The MSBU is important to the re residents that surround that area. because any building is going to require elevation of the property that's located in MSBU. When that happens, it will flood most of the homes surrounding

2:01:59it. Because we were not required to build. at a higher elevation above the floodplain. I fortunately had have never been flooded out, but I've seen the water, I have the fifty five foot wide or the fifty foot wide canal behind my house. that is not maintained properly, It is a drainage canal that runs through five communities. that surround that area. I have seen it

2:02:29flood. I have seen Amazon Flooded to the point where And twenty twelve Tropical Storm Debbie. Covered the roads. Amazon Drive was the worst there was We had a commuter who was trying to go through there and his car actually went off in a eight foot deep ditch, and a neighbor pulled him out of the water. It's dangerous. If we build in

2:02:59that area, you're gonna have to do millions of dollars of uh additional work on the utilities and I don't know how you mitigate the flood problem we have. But I've been with five five three three strong since the beginning. I was an officer and I've watched this whole thing. and I have worked for my community. So please everyone understand that this is For the quality of the neighborhood.

2:03:30We don't need more development in that area. We can't carry it. We don't have the roads or the sidewalks. or the utilities for it. Um Thank you for your consideration. I'm willing to pay them the money that it takes to keep our neighborhood quiet and peaceful for the kids and the people who live there.

2:03:55Ms. Lasseter, uh are you did you sign in as Marty?

2:03:59I did. And I

2:03:59apologize I overlooked.

2:04:03You're welcome. Thank you.

2:04:07No.

2:04:09No clapping.

2:04:13Signed in and I did not

2:04:19My name is Miriam Butler. I've lived at [address removed] for 24 years. And when I first started appearing before you to talk about this property, my hair was black.

2:04:38It has been. It has been a long time and we have presented all kinds of evidence about drainage, about wildlife, about traffic. Um and I'm not gonna go over all of those details again right now. But a few months ago, Marty Lasseter and I were interviewed by a reporter from Bay News Nine and we walked the field with that reporter. And at four o'clock in the afternoon, in the heat of an afternoon. A

2:05:09herd of six deer walked right by us across the field. So there we see that all the time. We enjoy this wildlife. And I see neighbors from Southern Oaks and Heritage Lakes and over on Patrician Drive and River Chase. People use our neighborhood all the time to walk through and enjoy it and to pass by. The park, and some of us go past the no-trespassing signs that are still up there, and we enjoy the park

2:05:39the land itself. Um we some of the people have talked about no transparency, but It's been real transparent from my point of view. In fact, we're getting tired of coming here and talking about this. Agreed. So um we ri and I can also speak. I'm I'm the president of the HOA of our little neighborhood had ninety-six homes. And I know that my people want to pay this tax. We

2:06:09want the peace that we presently have to go as undisturbed as it can, as whatever the future will allow, but we want this park. We feel it it's a benefit to us and to anybody who is within walking distance. Please approve it. Thank you.

2:06:30All right. Thank you for your comments.

2:06:36Gotta stop.

2:06:38My name is Robert Rock. I go by Bob, [address removed]. I'm one of the original members of the fifty five thirty three group. going way back when, along with Marty and bill back here and that Um And uh For some reason it seems to me that and I'd heard some rumors and and we know that the uh The guy who apparently made out in in

2:07:08this whole deal was a guy by the name of Chris Schurer Who'll uh Who sold the property to uh I believe uh Or bought the property and then and then and sold it to the county. And that uh some Uh there's supposed to be s been some payments made.

2:07:27But And a way I'd heard I'd heard some rumors that some of that money had gone through Went uh went to the Sunset Beach. And I said, I can't believe that, that some of that money would go to Sunset Beach and I still don't believe it to this day. But nevertheless, we heard I heard the uh rumor on that And that as far as the MSBU is concerned, want to thank Kathryn Starkey who bought us a year last year. Uh and one one t to push push it off till this year. and

2:07:57and now it looks like it's gonna hit us uh hit us this year. Do I like it? No. Can I live with it? Yes. uh but I like to see this thing uh uh come to a close and get this thing behind us and uh and that so and thank all those who were involved with What does uh Atrocity over the last few years. Thank you.

2:08:20Thanks, Bob.

2:08:27Commissioners. I'm Nancy Eckstein, [address removed]. I'm tired of coming back here. I really want this over with. It's not fair that some people are gonna have a hardship paying this. But $143, frankly, is the better of the evil that could be if you're building there. We don't want that. Plath Road is gonna affect us too. Boy is that gonna affect us. Please let's get this over with. Vote on it, get it done so we

2:08:57could go home and I don't have to come back here anymore. Thank you.

2:09:08Palmer Black, [address removed]. Um

2:09:14I've been there for thirteen years and we originally the what we thought was gonna be was a park paid for by the county. Um and I understand now we're gonna pay for it and if it is a park Anybody can go to it. So why do seventeen hundred homes have to pay for it? Really, there's a lot of flooding in the area, and I understand these people down in Riverside have that issue. Why

2:09:45not leave this out of park or Uses as stormwater area. Let the drainage be made better for everyone who lives around there because even Heritage Lake Boulevard in a really bad storm has flooded over. There's been a a a lake over it. So I think that's another option. Um Can I pay $145? Yes I can. But there are a lot of people and I agree with Southern

2:10:16Oaks. What do they have to do with that park? They can't even walk there. So it I don't think it's f I can't walk there. I have to go all the way around to if I wanted to use the park. So I I really think this is a county issue. They should have the park, they should pay for the park or use it for the betterment of drainage in the area, which is necessary. And I uh have to say I am very concerned with all the building that's going on Little Road. If

2:10:46that's gonna change any kind of drainage Which can happen. Look at those people down in Sarasota. Um I think that would be a terrible thing. So I really think this should be looked at again. uh for the betterment of everybody in the area. Thank you.

2:11:07Thank you, Comrades.

2:11:12Is this the last person that's from Peking that hadn't signed up?

2:11:15Last but not least. Okay, my name is CJ Mohovic. I live at [address removed]. And I'm in Heritage Lakes. Let's talk about something we all are worried about. Bunny. How much money did the county save by not putting in a four story low income? housing facility in a landlocked piece of property that has no access to the mean roads. How many people

2:11:45would you have put in there? Low income. How many people would have required public transportation? How many people would it have to come through the roads that go through a fifty five plus community. Uh two other communities. What would the roads have looked like? How much would you have had to put into the roads to maintain those buildings? All right? What about the police presence that you would

2:12:15have been called to in that community? How much money did you save over the last ten years by not putting that in there? Now, we are talking about invasive species. We have got a blank piece of property that could be an incubation point For invasion species. How much money is that gonna cost us? As taxpayers. Mm-hmm. You're looking to every one of us in this little corner of property

2:12:45to pay off what the county already owns. Forget it. I mean, get rid of it. It's not gonna do you any good. You're talking about impact fee.

2:13:00This isn't a viable piece of property to build on. I understand that it is also sinkhole prone. That's why the developer well, this is going into a sordid rumor that the developer got rid of the property because he couldn't build on it. He found out that he had sinkhole problems with it. Okay. Public transportation No. What is the advantage to putting a park preserve in there? We are all having this

2:13:31thing from the state. We went in there to get a park. But wait a minute. The general just recently said how many species live there in that area? We can put that as a preserve. We can save it for our children to see this. How many of you have seen turkeys, fox, fox? Hmm? Hawks, owls? We have. I've seen it. I had a coyote walk through my backyard, look at me

2:14:01and say, hey Bud, here I am. So we need to protect those green areas. Europe spending what kind of money? to go ahead and put preserves out here in the county for a green belt to keep the species here. Hey, if their species go away. So do we. The quality of our life will be reduced. And this is why and uh by the way okay, I got two seconds. Your time's up. Okay. I came

2:14:31here in nineteen seventy-four. I lived in the county for over forty years. Then I moved into this facility in fifteen. So I'm one of the latecomers to this one. But I would have been on that committee.

2:14:44Right.

2:14:44Thank you

2:14:45very much. Thank you.

2:14:48Yes, ma'am. This is our last speaker.

2:14:53Welcome. Good afternoon.

2:14:56Good afternoon.

2:14:57My name's Kathleen King. I live at [address removed]. I'm a newcomer. I'm only here eight years. I retired here. I was looking for peace and quiet, and I got it. I didn't even know about these forty one acres that were behind the home that I live in. I will never use this as a park. I took a drive on my own just to see where it was. and it's nowhere in walking distance to where I would go to this park. Is

2:15:27the MSBU tax the better of the two evils of it being developed? Yes. Can my senior neighbors afford it? No. If this is gonna be a PAC, I agree with the previous uh commentator that said that this county should pay for the park. And that's my statement. Thank you for listening. Thank you very much.

2:15:54I think you have three online.

2:15:56Or do I have three online?

2:15:58Uh yes there are um I believe three online and then one is trying to I believe um if he cannot connect to call via phone. He did connect. Okay. So the first one we have is Mandy Jacobs.

2:16:09Okay.

2:16:12She's on. Okay. Ms. Jacobs, you can go ahead and um speak. And please say your name and address for the record.

2:16:20Good job.

2:16:25Ms. Jacob.

2:16:27Sorry, I was muted.

2:16:30Okay.

2:16:31I apologize. Yeah, Andy Jacobs, [address removed]. We are actually just up the way from the area in question for development. Um, we are newcomers to the neighborhood. We've actually just moved in here this year. Um My concern is that if it is developed into a multifamily complex, what does that do to our, as everybody else has stated, property values? maintenance costs, safety and security. Um Everybody has already mentioned the increase in traffic. This area is

2:17:02from my opinion it is a safe area. People are able to walk through the neighborhoods and adjoining neighborhoods fairly safely. Um, but there is traffic and the cars do fly through here. I know that there are several children who live in this area and I'm afraid that the increase in traffic would just reduce the availability for these kiddos and other people who live in this community to be safe outdoors while they're enjoying the beautiful space. Um, we have also seen several, you know, animals and other wildlife creatures that have ventured out of

2:17:32that area into our front yard. So, you know, that's great. That is something that my little guy gets to see and it's it's beautiful. I think that that's something that we should definitely preserve.

2:17:46Thank you.

2:17:49Uh Julie Harrison.

2:17:54Okay. Uh the two.

2:18:00Joe Teppedino.

2:18:11Hello. My name is Joe Sepadino. Um I live at [address removed]. And uh I sent a letter. To uh Miss Gina Jeffries. Uh regarding my opposition to the MSU. And I wanted to know if that letter uh has been received by the board and can be

2:18:42used uh to be placed the public record. for this meeting.

2:18:48Oh yeah, we got we got a couple.

2:18:52Yes, that one has. It has. And w will it be red? into this uh into the record.

2:19:02It'll be received and filed.

2:19:07So the people who are uh listening right now will not be able to uh hear what my letter has to say to the board.

2:19:21It'll we don't write read letters into the record. We receive and file them. If the it the board has received them

2:19:32That's that's the process. You have three minutes to make your public comment.

2:19:40That's all. Okay. Thank you.

2:19:43Thank you. One. Once again calling Julie Harrison.

2:19:52Maria Barch.

2:19:57There you go.

2:20:02Ms. Barts, we're not hearing you.

2:20:05Mm-hmm.

2:20:09Not there.

2:20:16Last call Julie Harrison, Maria Barch.

2:20:21There is no one else uh signed up.

2:20:26Here's somebody.

2:20:30Go ahead and do it.

2:20:33My name is Maria Barch. I live at [address removed]. I'm a newcomer to the community about six months in. And I can see the land in question from my backyard.

2:20:50I am in agreement with the majority of the Heritage Lake speakers that have spoken today. It is a beautiful wildlife area. I am very concerned. about the flooding and the infrastructure Uh huh. problems that may occur as well. And I'm opposed to building on that property.

2:21:17Yeah.

2:21:19That's all.

2:21:20All right.

2:21:23That includes those that have Signed up.

2:21:27All right.

2:21:29Uh

2:21:30Mr. White.

2:21:30Thank

2:21:31you, Chair.

2:21:35So

2:21:37Not done this before. It's kind of a mix mixed bag. If you Dalton hear me how m raise your hand if you're in support of the MSTU, please.

2:21:47B U.

2:21:48B U. And then an o so for it. uh opposition.

2:21:58Just one hand.

2:22:01Okay. So I've we heard we heard a number of different things about you know the taxes and and the impact on your pocketbooks. Last last uh budget hearing this board passed a senior tax exemption of an additional up to up fifty thousand dollars. If you have lived in your house for over 25 years and based on your income, you could potentially receive an additional $50,000 exemption on your home. And it sounds like some of the folks may at least

2:22:31meet the time requirement. And if you do, please contact the property appraiser's office to see if you qualify and you can receive that level of savings on your taxes. And that's some good work done by our board and it's gone into effect. this year.

2:22:49Uh a speaker mentioned some new eyes on the board. And stepped outside and discussed this opportunity with staff, and I'm just gonna throw it out there. So you have forty one acres And we talk about the affordability of living and we're trying to figure out age restricted living product. Senior living and we have grants and money that need to be spent. What's the thought? of taking this forty one acres and doing single story duplexes For

2:23:19affordable housing. I'm just lit just wait. Just it's just not an option that was out there. We heard a litany of things.

2:23:29But we were but we were but we were challenged. We were I was challenged as a new board member with some new eyes and viewpoint, and that's a real problem that we have. The solution to that is there's no tax. The problem is there's building on there. Another issue is it's not high. So anyway, I figure I pitch it out there to the board, just a general idea of fresh eyes.

2:23:55And we hear you. So I throw that out there. We have money. It doesn't sound like people are in agreement. But The wheels were turning and listening to folks and it's kind of a balance of both worlds. Um and I just open it up. For general discussion. Uh but please uh if anything, call the property appraiser and see if you guys qualify for the senior tax exemption. That's that's real. And we did that. And then the other I'll I'll leave it open for the

2:24:25board. Thank you, Chairman Mariano.

2:24:27Um Um that was a good point about the seniors. Mr. Karbala, on our new one for the road paving, is there also something for in income?

2:24:40Does anyone remember? Didn't we do something for income?

2:24:43I don't believe there is.

2:24:44No?

2:24:44Okay. No, ma'am.

2:24:45Well, um Tosh, I've been at this from the very beginning.

2:24:49Sorry, Commissioner. I I will say that there is some relief on existing PVAS. So if there are I don't know what the status of PVAS would have been in this In this area.

2:24:58I don't remember if we did any in there, but if you are currently paying a PVAS, which is the ro old road paving system, we are taking that off of your bill and and the county's gonna be taking that over. Um So as some of you know and I'm so glad to see some of the um original five five three three uh folks that came to this room in red shirts. Build it up, line the walls. It was a thing. And um just for our newest commissioners and y you're not gonna

2:25:28know this history, Lisa, but This was a a la a leftover piece of property within this development that Mr. Shear actually inherited in his divorce. Um and it had um zoning zoning rights on it that were multifamily. As a matter of fact, a whole lot of this was zoned multifamily but developed as single family in the middle there. So it was a very, very unusual circumstance. I will say Um all of this area River

2:26:00crossing Um Southern Oaks, Cattleman's Crossing, and all the neighborhoods in here were developed as something known as a sub-DRI. So at the time of um the development process in the state, was it if you were doing um a property and Jeff you would remember what was the threshold? 10,000 homes?

2:26:18Well, no, it so it was based on population and so

2:26:24Back then it was probably a thousand homes for Pasco County and if you were at eighty percent if you were below eighty percent of that threshold you could get away from the DRI process and so there were a bunch of Nine hundred and ninety nine. That's what this was. Bought homes. Yes.

2:26:44Some of this property that was bought uh came from our family. Um some of the most eastern property came from Starkey Rance actually. And You know, it was allowed, so what can I say? The developer did it in little pieces and he avoided what happens when you do a DRI back then, which was coming up with a road network. um school impacts and parks requirements. So that is why

2:27:15none of these neighborhoods have any parks. There's no park in Southern Oaks. You have retention ponds because my kids played football in your dry retention ponds. Uh because there's there are no parks in this in no community parks, no neighborhood parks. Not nothing. That's that is not with in the what we consider a walking distance or a a comfortable bike ride within the community. If you were building these today For every hundred homes you would have to have an acre park, and what is the current park impact

2:27:45fee?

2:27:48And each one of your houses would be paying this much towards building Parks in the in

2:27:53the county. For me to give this this uh statement right now considering the comments earlier.

2:27:57I know, but

2:27:58go ahead. It is uh $3,450 per dwelling unit.

2:28:01But none of these houses built paid any park impact fee because they were all built before that time. So what happened? The developer came in and he had the rights to build multifamily on here. I think it's a hundred and sixty or one hundred and seventy apartments right in the middle of this neighborhood, which was crazy. And we didn't want to approve it, but legally The only thing we could vote on was the site plan. And it actually you

2:28:27couldn't vote on the site plan.

2:28:29Yeah, we couldn't even say we we really our hands were tied. But it went three two against and Commissioner Mariano was here and he will tell you he got personally sued by one of the toughest attorneys in the state of Florida, David Smoker, because you can't They broke the law. The three of those commissioners literally broke the law and got personally sued. Actually. Okay. I'll correct

2:28:52you on the facts.

2:28:53From the

2:28:53attorney. The the Three of the commissioners got a letter of in intention to sue under nineteen eighty three the Federal Civil Rights Act for basically not following advice of counsel And the board reversed the vote.

2:29:16Yeah. So

2:29:17there was no there

2:29:18nobody

2:29:19got got sued.

2:29:22It also wasn't

2:29:23David Smoker, it was Robert Lincoln. Yes.

2:29:25Oh, that's right. I thought it was Smoker. Boy. Um something happened. Just as tough as Smoker. So, you know, I I orchestrated this deal. I said to the to the developer and to the community. We have to pass this. We don't want to. It doesn't make any sense to put an apartment complex in the middle here. Um it are you willing to sell your property to the community, not to the county. but to the community because they they took a vote and they said we'd rather have a park and pay for it than apartment

2:29:55complexes. So that is how the deal happened. So it wasn't the county buying a park because they they this is not where they would put a park. Um this was the community saying we'd rather preserve this property for the community benefit. than have apartments. So the county loaned This community the money, and we have been through this many times. We have These people have been coming up here like every other year, uh pitting neighbor against neighbor. Um it's not

2:30:25it's not good, it's not healthy. We decided at the last big hearing, it's gonna be a park. Um And um We started the MSBU and now we just need to finish it. As far as insurance or tax, we have not put any tax on this property, correct? There's no tax. So that three million has is just still three million. So we've been eating it. I mean interest. That's I don't think we have any interest on there.

2:30:55It's point oh five interest. So

2:31:01And uh Mr. Grant just uh told me a little bit ago that the standard assessment interest on well actually on other standard assessments is seven point five or seven percent. So this one is. I don't know if I got that right, but I I think

2:31:15Okay. You know what I'm gonna say? I think we need to eat the interest. It it it it's part of our fault that this isn't done yet. So I would I I I'm gonna make a motion if it's if it's legal. That that be taken out. Um uh that has accrued for this sitting here all this time.

2:31:34Okay. Mr. Chairman M Yeah, we have not accrued any interest on this to make it.

2:31:39But what's this oh you're talking about on the assessment? Assessment. Moving forward. Moving forward. So we haven't accrued any. All right. Um stormwater. There's no stormwater. We looked into that. There there's no storage there. Um that's kinda why you fled. There's no ability to put ponds.

2:31:56Um so I did the interest. And so no m no money went to Sunset Beach. That three million dollars went right to the developer because we bought that property for him and have been holding it for this community ever since.

2:32:08Yeah. Mr. Mariano? So I I I appreciate both commissioners and Commissioner Weightman, you always come up with unique things to bring out, but I think it was pretty clear what they were saying. Uh la last year uh I think it was last year or the year before we actually went out and actually looked to the market to see because we thought the property had gone up enough, maybe you'd have enough for single family homes, maybe enough for townhomes and neither one was gonna cover it. So we kind of of brought we're gonna bring it back again this year. Um this board was working

2:32:39Working with the state legislature real close, we thought we had a lot of power and we did to try to get that done. Um and we we waited I think two s separate terms to try to get it done because they were convinced they were gonna get it done. Um for those who you didn't know about it. I mean this is something that was like a wide open conversation. You frankly maybe you should have been notified. I don't know. But Um we did wanna make sure that we protected it so that it didn't go to somebody else that could flip it and then put something on there 'cause the the rights were there. So I think we made a good move of getting

2:33:09it. Uh and I think it was good for all of the county, especially w with a lot of things that have gone on. Um

2:33:17Uh just for that. We've done this similarly in Gulf Harbors. We've done it similarly in Tim Broaks, which where they had flooding and they had development concerns it was gonna go in. Uh there was one point at Timbrook's they're actually gonna fill in a pond. and go put development on it. That was part of their plan was. We didn't do that. Magnolia Valley, we bought that. We haven't assessed them in S M SBU either, which is something hopefully we'll come up with a better plan. But Commissioner Starkey, I think you're right, and I think this is something that is an exceptional situation. We've had it so long, we're going it. We don't want to do anything

2:33:47with it, and the way people have seen all the development around it, if we can slow down development, so so be it, especially right here. So I think your idea of going with no interest is brilliant. I was gonna go the same way, but I'm gonna give you the brilliant call, uh, just to cut down the cost. So with no interest on it, uh to sweeten it a little bit more, I think if we stretched out the term From was the was it a fifteen year term what we're gonna look at? Fifteen years? I mean let's go to let's go to thirty years and stretch it out so the payment is less. The money's gonna come back in the coffers.

2:34:17It's gonna go Um and at least it makes it better and more palatable for everybody to go through it.

2:34:22I wouldn't I wouldn't go that long um because time value money, you know, that three million can't buy us back what we could have bought with it ten years ago. Um so I I wouldn't I wouldn't look to go. go go that far, but um I I I see our administrator kind of concerned. Do you want to speak up on this? I mean, I think that's a good thing We have to be careful what precedents we set. So it's been ten years.

2:34:45Um so I mean at at the end of the day, this it's it's the purview of the board. We certainly um you know, would not want to set a precedent on on these various MSBUs that this board has adopted over the years of of just forgiving, but you would want your terms to be be consistent with that. I think fifteen, twenty years, those types of things are are probably okay. Um interest, I mean point oh five versus zero, I I would argue they're probably mathematically almost the same. So you know, I mean I I think we could we could probably live

2:35:15with that and then you know move forward. I don't know what the component of your maintenance costs would be because we've I know there are issues sometimes with vacant land and maintaining it and Yeah.

2:35:27Uh currently it's the that the maintenance assessment is around twenty-five dollars um as a part of the total total proposed today. Uh and we just did some quick uh spreadsheet math. If you took dou if you took it or extended it to twenty, the payment with no interest is around one nineteen. Is that the number? One nineteen per household from one forty two. going from fifteen to twenty years. I'll go with that.

2:35:50I don't think it's makes a big difference.

2:35:56Commissioner Weightman has his hand up.

2:35:59Well wait on y'all to finish. Oh Mr. Robinson.

2:36:04So may I have a

2:36:06Remind what we purchase this land for way back when? Three million. Three million? Yeah. Three

2:36:11million. Three million. Yes.

2:36:14And so we're all they're only going to be paying off three million flat,

2:36:17correct?

2:36:19Well, In addition to the to the maintenance assessment that we talked about, that's about twenty-five dollars as well to maintain it.

2:36:27Per resident per year.

2:36:29Yes,

2:36:30correct. That's the all in number, Keith. Yes. Okay. I'm I'm also reminded here as well that just for by way of comparison, the Timber Oaks assessment, which was a stormwater project, it's about $112 per residence. So you're $119.

2:36:44And we're paying off Gulf Harbors in five years. Correct.

2:36:50Yeah, do you lend money too though? You had e-lemp money without two though.

2:36:55Mr. Whiteman, and then Commissioner, what was your what was your proposal on time? Did you give a specific number?

2:37:01I don't think you're not going to be able to do it.

2:37:05I said thirty, but if it went to twenty and that was more reasonable, that twenty helps. I can go with that.

2:37:13Does it matter if we're not charging interest?

2:37:16Well it does to every c every MSBU that's coming. It's it's a it's a precedent setting, right? And others are paying interest, so what so you know this one

2:37:28Typically they're fifteen, but Timber Oaks again, by way of comparison, is the longest one and that was set to twenty as well. So

2:37:34what's the interest rate they're paying?

2:37:36Uh I can't tell you offhand. I just I know it's uh it's a hundred and twelve dollars. Mr. Grant, do you remember the interest rate?

2:37:42That will be in Timber. Justin Grant, Director of Public Infrastructure, Fiscal and Business Administration. I believe I believe it's around one percent or less. I believe it's around one percent or less is what Tip Rogues was adapted.

2:37:54Do you know

2:37:54what

2:37:55Gulf Harbor's is playing paying? I

2:37:57I do not, Keith. Do you

2:37:58think that's a good idea? Um Proposed is a hundred and and a portion of that is to pay back the actual capital acquisition and the remainder is is for the maintenance portion.

2:38:09But what's the in is the interest

2:38:12That

2:38:12I don't have handy,

2:38:13yeah.

2:38:14So we need to be consistent. So so to in in in the spirit of being consistent with these scenarios that we're facing If there is no interest on this one, then I think we need to look at the other deals we have made and make them all uniform across the board

2:38:32because of the precedent setting nature of this. Um

2:38:40I'll

2:38:41leave it at that. It's hard to say because they're all different. Like Timber Oaks, they had growth issues that were coming in, where they wanted to get some stuff, there was a battle to that was happening. There was also proof that the flooding that was going on could be minimized if we didn't do it. So that was a different one and that took a lot of construction, et cetera. The one with Gulf Harbors, if you look at it. You've got to do that. We paid for the land, but we used e lamp money as well. Now that's an isolated piece of property. This is an isolated piece of property. It was used that was a lot of vegetation out there, et cetera. So that's

2:39:11why you use e-Lamp money. So you can't say they're treated the same because they're a little bit different. And whether it be point zero five or whatever, I think it's just a little bit of goodwill with all they've been through, all the stuff they've stepped in They were willing to go for it from the get go. We pulled back on it 'cause of state legislators. So it's not they're not the fault. to go forward and I don't think we are either, but it's just it's it's they're all different scenarios. The others were e executed right away. This one hasn't been. And if you look at the demographics from what you're hearing, I think giving them a l a little bit more slack

2:39:41with this unique situation, I I I don't have any problem justifying it.

2:39:46So 20 years at zero interest is zero

2:39:49interest. And just the maintenance fee. And the maintenance fee.

2:39:55Keith, can your um well this is general fund money, not parks money. So

2:40:04Um CFO County Administrator.

2:40:12This is is general fund repayment, not parks repayment and where Gulf Harbor's was uh ELAMP repayment. Um So Twenty years no interest? Are you that that's that's fine. Yes. Okay. I make that motion.

2:40:28Second. All right. Second.

2:40:31Just to correct the record. Um Commissioner Weightman made a comment about your adopting of the senior homestead exemption.

2:40:43Commissioner Weightman made the comment about the senior homestead exemption that was adopted by ordinance, correct? Yeah. It uh goes into effect in the 2025 tax year. So the trim notices that you have will have received. won't show that extra Um bitch though. And and you need to apply for it. So that that's you n you need to talk to the property appraiser about that for the twenty-five tax year. It's not

2:41:13gonna not in the twenty-four tax year. Yeah. Okay.

2:41:19No sir. Can't talk from the audience.

2:41:22Um sorry. So this is in my district and um So we'll plan a time uh plan a meeting with the different HOAs that are in the area and we'll we'll t we'll have further talks about what you guys want because this is your park. So that's what we did at Gulf Harbor. So the other we have a

2:41:40the other comment that I'm sorry, the other comment that came up though is And I think the board had already committed to this, is will the will the zoning be changed on the

2:41:48property? I have that here.

2:41:51And I think that the board has always discussed changing it. It's just Like

2:42:02Yeah and and I think that we you know the the parks team can assist continue to assist if that's the direction of the board to pursue a land use change, obviously.

2:42:12Yeah. No one around here paying for this MSTU should be worried about it changing and being a five story imp multifamily unit down the road 'cause we're taking that off and it's gonna be Open spaces apart.

2:42:27So what would it change to?

2:42:29We would we would work with the planning team on that. Uh,

2:42:32okay,

2:42:32and we'll take that on internally.

2:42:36And the county will take on that, not the community doesn't have to take that on.

2:42:39No, that would that would be a

2:42:40county initiative.

2:42:41Okay, well county initiative. And if I could

2:42:43take take this forty-one acres away from this, or is this forty-one or forty eight how many acres is it? It it's it's appropriate, approximately forty acres. Yeah. I'd love to have it in my backyard. But I can't move it. So

2:42:59have if you're near that. That'd be great.

2:43:01And just um, Chairman, if I may, so so the parks team did communicate with the presidents of the HOAs, um, and we we had conversations about what they would want to see in an upcoming assessment, whether it be You know, the repayment of the loan and general maintenance and additional improvements. And the general consensus at that time, and and again, we're talking to a handful of people, not 1,700 homes, was let's just get the assessment secured and the general maintenance lockdown. And to your point, Commissioner Starkey, we can meet with the community in

2:43:31the future and use that MSBU as a vehicle similar to Gulf Harbor's, of how, if there was a desire to do some improvements, I heard Commissioner Yeager say pickleball courts or something, whatever that may be, um then we can have those discussions at that time.

2:43:44Okay. It it could be a shade structure and a grill and some tables, you know? know? Something for neighborhood cookouts.

2:43:53All right. So I have a motion by uh Commissioner Starkey and Commissioner Mariano have leave second. Yes, sir. Okay. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Motion pass five zero. So okay. Thank

2:44:08you. Yes.

2:44:08Thank you.

2:44:16This this gavel doesn't work very good for clapping, so. But thank

2:44:21you.