BCC Discussion on Fiscal Year 2026 Budget

49:58Thank you. And w we look uh forward to the ribbon cutting. Awesome. Can't wait. Thank you. Okay. Okay, um now we are going to move to R30 and that's our budget hearing.

50:23All right, good morning. Amy Farrell, Budget Director with Pasco County's Office of Management and Budget. I'm here with item R 30, OMB 250028, which is our discussion on fiscal year 2026 budget. Yes, that is right. We all just celebrated new year for 2025, but we are here to talk next year.

50:44All right, so we're gonna talk about the budget cycle. So just an overview and a reminder of the touch points and the process and when we'll be public facing and then doing some behind the scenes work on building out our budget for the next fiscal year. We're going to then talk about it makes sense to talk about where you're going when after you've looked a little bit at where we've been. So we're going to spend a little bit of time looking at where we've been to pivot to where we're headed. And then we'll start talking about those upcoming budgetary pressures on the fiscal year 26 budget. And then we're

51:14going to have some good dialogue and discussion around strategic planning, our approach to different kinds of funding mechanisms to include taxation and long-term capital. All right, so um if you look at the green squares, this is where we've been in this cycle. So we did a big kickoff with all of our county departments last week, which is basically the initiation of budget cycle. It is go forth and start planning. Um and then here today we're talking big picture high-level

51:45priorities and direction here with you all. And then in February, just next month, I'll be back and we'll talk about our big revenue projections on those major revenue sources. And then we'll do some briefings in March where we look at the state of the general fund in the early parts of the budget cycle. We'll um come back and have a workshop in April with our constitutional officers like we did last year. Um it went so well having that dialogue and being able to plan together.

52:15Um so we're just really hoping to build off that momentum and looking forward to it. And then um behind the scenes, we're me and Mike are going to be peppering our directors to make sure that we're thoroughly combing through needs versus wants and putting forth the best possible recommended budget for you all. When um June comes and we've got preliminary taxable assessed values from the property appraiser's office and we can have another workshop with some more fine-tuned revenue projections and then July we'll adopt trim

52:46and then we'll have two hearings in September to adopt the final budget.

52:51All right, so let's talk a little bit about where we've been. So before you, we're looking at the last 14 years. How has the county grown? How has demands for service grown? And then at the same time, how has our overall operating budget grown? And so when we look at our population, we've grown 36% over the last 14 years. That's not nothing. That's a pretty big number, right? So we talk about we've got growth coming into the county. Well, what does that mean from a service delivery pressure perspective? So we

53:21pulled out some four key data points for you. Well, we've got single-family permits. Now, when you look and you say 644%, Amy, that is crazy talk. Yeah. were booming, right? So that translates into probably a a more palatable number. Roughly 6,000 more single family permits are getting processed annually than what was happening in 2010. When we look at tons of trash, that has grown by 32% since 2010, our utility connections up 55%,

53:53and then calls in for public safety has gone up 117%. Now we've been able to meet that call for demand by growing our operating budget by only 30%. Our population has grown more, our demand for service, our meeting of that service has grown more than our budget has, which means we've been very efficient, we've made sound financial decisions. That lead us to maintaining a level of affordability amongst our peers and Some

54:23might venture to say our competitors in terms of targeted growth and industry that we're trying to bring into the county. So three key tax watch metrics that we're looking at here that kind of show where we rank in terms of affordability: average total property tax millage rates. We're below Hillsboro, we're below Pinellas, we're below the state average. And this metric is looking at all jurisdictions. This includes counties, cities, schools, Mosquito control, etc. Our next data point is per capita county government property

54:53tax levies. So these are your county levies. MSTUs, MSBUs are general obligation bonds. And here we are also below Hillsboro, we're below the state, and we're below Pinellas. And then this third and final metric are per capita taxable value. So this is the county taxable value, not the school board taxable value. And we're looking at just value of all of our properties in the county, less any exclusions, exemptions, et cetera. Right? And so we're maintaining a level of affordability that

55:23we would expect, still meeting. increased demands for service, a growing population, and being very judicious with our financial decisions. All right, so that's where we've been. Now where are we headed? All right, so budgetary pressures on the upcoming fiscal year 26 budget. So public safety. This includes staffing our D shift. So fiscal year 26 will be the first full year of running all four shifts at every fire station. So that's

55:54going to have a monetary impact, which we have been planning for. This is just a reminder. We also have Our jail expansion. So as construction is pacing, we're pacing, staffing up the jail expansion as well. And then of course um we also know that we're gonna have some budgetary pressures related to the sheriff and his budget needs. Annual contract for low barrier housing. So as a result of the storms, and we've had some folks who are displaced, we put up a contract

56:24for managing some casework there. And so we're gonna have to plan what does this all look like when we pivot through storm to homelessness, low barrier housing. Our Wesley Chapel library will be coming online, so we're gonna have to fully staff that. Wage and benefits for fiscal year 25. We worked a comp in class study, and that was baked into the 25, but we want to make sure we don't lose ground. So we'll be looking at what's an appropriate wage adjustment for the upcoming fiscal year. Retirement and Medicaid, those rates

56:54come later. We know those typically go up, so we've got a plan for that. Uh fiscal year 25 is year four of our utility rate study. So for 26, we'll be looking at building the next four-year rate resolution. So in the summer we'll have a hearing to work on that. Tax base adjustments, I just talked about the two storms, well the three storms. So that is gonna have a monetary impact on our tax base. We're still trying to figure out what that looks like. Residents have until March 1st to apply for those exemptions,

57:24so it's still a bit early for us to be able to say, hey, this is what this might look like in the coming years. But just know that that's out there. And then of course sustaining our public facilities. This could be anywhere from our parks facilities to general county government buildings, but if we build it, we probably should maintain it, and there's always going to be a cost associated. Before we move on, do we have any questions?

57:48Um yes, I had some if you could go back on the nine one one hundred and seventeen.

57:53Yes.

57:54Um could you dive into that a little more? 'Cause that's an interesting number.

57:58Oh I so by dive in you want me to break out what makes up those calls? Okay. So in twenty twenty Um So we don't have we weren't able to parse out fire and EMS related versus sheriff calls in twenty ten because of the system that we were on. But for twenty twenty and twenty twenty four we can parse those numbers out. For WEC FIRE had an increase of about 25,000 calls per year from 2020 to 2024. With the

58:28Sheriff, we saw a slight reduction of approximately 20,000 calls from 2020 to 2024, but our overall calls went up.

58:37So if you did that per capita, that'd be an interesting number to kind of run because our population has increased, but the costs have gone down. Well I d I I don't have to do that math but

58:48No, I'm I'm not gonna do it right now, but I'm gonna make the note and we'll do it. Um

58:52and you said fire was up up how much?

58:55Roughly twenty-five. Twenty five thousand.

58:59And I guess we kinda know that as being one of the most One of the busiest.

59:03Yeah, we have one of the busiest EMS services.

59:06And do you break that out to actual fires versus calls for ambu ambulance or? Yeah, I'll let uh

59:15assistant county administrator Murphy answer that. Eighty percent of the responses are for EMS.

59:23Okay.

59:23Oh. We track about a hundred thousand calls a year. Uh Between seventy five and eighty thousand of those are EMS calls.

59:34And do we have any way to break out what the sheriff's calls are?

59:40I'm I you don't have to answer it now, but it'd be an interesting. I don't know how d how d I don't know how deep we can get into some of this, but It's Okay. That's a question I'll ask the sheriff one day when one of my coffees.

59:54Chase can find that out for you.

59:56Yeah. It'd be interesting to know.

59:59Thank

59:59you.

59:59Oh, I had yes. Oh I'm sorry, I

1:00:02thought you had the one.

1:00:02I had another one, but I don't th I never think the chair should go first, so I'll I have another one but I'll go last.

1:00:07I'm gonna tie into one that you've talked about. So about uh as far as recycling goes, uh we stopped doing glass a while ago. Commissioner Starkey had actually brought up a possibility about using glass a different way or disposing of it. Have we looked at that at all? Or is that part of the scope coming up for the budget?

1:00:27I think we did take a look at that. Uh let me let me make sure we didn't respond to the board with a memo on that uh with the glass recycling.

1:00:37When when I did that presentation, a private provider did get a hold of me pa P A W. And they have the ability to do that for us too. If we don't want to do it ourselves, they'd be interested in being a sub contractor or however that works. So but we really should be Putting that glass to work.

1:00:58Anything's better f whatever we can do to divert it depending on cost, et cetera.

1:01:04So

1:01:04another part of what you need to look at is the cost of actually doing that or

1:01:10Yeah. Make

1:01:11sure the ROI is

1:01:11a good thing.

1:01:18Maybe we shouldn't be doing it.

1:01:20So

1:01:20Yeah. Well here's the gotta look at it to see.

1:01:22Yeah. H here's the thing, those big piles in the landfill are very expensive to redo. Millions and millions of dollars. So if we can avoid that and take a look at it economically, what's the best move? I think it's worth a look and Just like just like we did with Merrill Brothers years ago, we looked at it. Yeah. Went through many different things. We finally found something that worked and it's working great. There could be an opportunity there too. So I just want to look at it though.

1:01:43Yeah, the Solid Waste team, just so the board can be assured, is looking at a number of novel things on using that ash anywhere from concrete additives to even road base. So, you know, having that glass in that stream is could be helpful for those avenues, but uh I'm confident Mr. Pliska and his team will run the business analysis. That's that's how they operate in Solid Waste. So we'll be sure to get back to you.

1:02:02Okay. Uh another another avenue I want to tr Track on you you talk about the annual contract for low barrier housing. Obviously I know you're working very closely negotiating to make sure if if it's not a capacity, the numbers should be coming down to what you think and I appreciate that. I want you to just consider a couple of things. And Eric I don't know where we stand but those we had a bunch of trailers that were sitting at Denton. I know they've moved. I know they're that have to be for the hurricane. I want to make sure we're gonna get those filled. I know there's people at uh holy ground and matter of fact this could be a good opportunity for us to go look

1:02:32at. They've got spots for old trailer spots where they could actually fit a bunch of uh trailers. If not trailers might even better those homes we saw at the um uh Grand Boulevard thing could actually work out really well too because they've got enough land they could put a centralized bathroom that could work just like just like we're doing there. The beauty of that is we don't have to maintain it.

1:02:52Where's the land?

1:02:53Uh it's up on US nineteen north of Houston. Uh tucked in a way it's an old sh it's a shelter that's been there for probably four or five years now. You know they they they were down at Denton. They were on the

1:03:03nineteen.

1:03:03Yeah, they were down at Denton and nineteen before, but they got a new b building uh facility which is even better. By the way, Kathy, I wanna thank you. We helped the Holy Ground. They had this shelter building that was gonna have to shut down that probably protects ten different people. Uh having a new roof on that building, thank you. Uh they can now run it and it looks perfect. So thank you for making that happen. Um when I think about p like Sunrise Recovery Center, uh and I know we've got some other ones out there that are helping some um Young ladies that have been abused over

1:03:33time. I think with the C B J C B G R money coming up, that could be something we could look at. It's housing, uh if it can be tied to anything strong related. Probably something to look at as well.

1:03:44Okay, and I have s some more questions but I think they can come later when you get into some other things. Got any questions on what she's spoken about so far?

1:03:53I'll make my comments when she's done.

1:03:55Okay. All right. Thank you.

1:04:03All right, so now as we start our budget cycle, we want to make sure that we're framing the conversation around our strategic plan and what are those key priorities, and are we putting our resources where we need to be from a high-level strategic position? So the next three slides we're talking about the different focus areas within our strategic plan, which goes from 2025 to 2030. Talking about those addressable challenges, the goals associated with those, and is there anything at this point

1:04:33in time that is so pressing that it should be top of mind for leadership and administration as we're going through the budget process, we're going through looking at new initiatives and where where might we want to, you know, divert some resources in the immediate in this five-year plan? So the first focus area is kind of the bedrock pillar, if you will, where we're looking at create a thriving community, right? We need to do that first before we can move on to other types of

1:05:03needs and wants, right? So we're looking at maintaining public health and safety. We're looking at community resilience and sustainability and the demands of rapid growth. And then you all should have a copy of the strategic plan in front of you. And if you just fold it open, you'll see the three goals associated with those challenges. We're looking to improve capacity and capability of our emergency service responses. We're looking to protect vulnerable critical assets and communities from extreme conditions, and we're focusing on. Mm. putting a bow on that comprehensive plan and

1:05:33then pivoting to priority portions of our land development code that might need to be tweaked so we can meet those demands of rapid growth. So anything in here that's that feels more pressing than something else that Mike should be keeping in mind as we're working through this budget cycle.

1:05:51Yeah, and just as a reminder, these are these are the areas that when we see new spending or things that are coming along This is where we think we should funnel it. And so we just want to make sure that this is all still top of mind and and present from a strategic perspective because these are goals that we we think we can we can achieve. I think we can improve the capacity and capability of our emergency response service. And we're gonna we're gonna reach a point, we're gonna move to the next goal that is that is still related to maintaining public health and safety. So again, this is just confirming that

1:06:21as we go through the budgeting process.

1:06:24Um go ahead, Commissioner Mariano.

1:06:25I

1:06:25was

1:06:25gonna say I think it's I think it'll be important for this year, especially coming up between the again the C BGR money, uh DR money that's coming in, that we try to maximize that. We've got uh some s some great state representatives. We have representatives for lobbyists, and I think with ballot in DC, I think we should be looking to try to help this budget as much as we can to try to leverage the projects we want to get done. And try to use the the federal and state money that's out there that we try to work with as well with the projects that can c can tie in and go.

1:06:54Anyone else? Um so one of the things that comes to my mind um is septic to sewer. And um I also think if this money still sticks after what the president did yesterday, um, that we can use this uh for is is doing some conversions. Um it's still embarrassing there were the That this county has not done one that I know of. Um And j yesterday I had a meeting um with

1:07:24a gentleman who lives in Odessa area and he mentioned that um so there's a lot of lakes in in Odessa in Odessa area, south of fifty four. that uh someone he knew went swimming in one of those lakes and got septic I don't I can't remember the disease they got, but All those homes around those lakes are are an old on old septic systems. So I've asked for our our staff to go test those lakes. Um but we just have to start cleaning up. And

1:07:55um I know this county has has avoided uh taking on septic to sewer conversions, but we've really got to get serious about it.

1:08:06Madam Chairman Mariano, we've just tried to get funded and it hasn't been easy. I mean we we've got a great project up at Sea Pines.

1:08:13But there's there's ways that other counties have gotten funding. Um for example, Charlotte County up in Washington. And from Tallahassee. I don't know. We just haven't been successful, but I feel we just have to keep it Keep working on it.

1:08:28Commissioner Oakley. On that, uh some of that funding's come through uh before through Swift MUD and then some come from the state on programs. It would go from central to source.

1:08:39Yeah.

1:08:40And and that's a lot of the coastal to the north. Right, the Springs.

1:08:47Perfect time to talk a little about all this then. I have a whole combinder for it.

1:08:51At the commute committee updates. Yes. Okay.

1:08:54Yes.

1:08:58All right, so let's move on to the next pillar unless there's any more discussion. Okay. All right, so our second pillar we're looking at enhancing our quality of life. So here we're focusing on reducing homelessness, making sure we've got access and availability to cultural, educational, and social opportunities for all, and balancing our natural landscape and urbanization. And so when you look at our goals, we're looking at making homelessness rare. Brief and non-recurrent. We're looking at increasing availability and access to our cultural, educational, recreational, and

1:09:28social opportunities. And we're ensuring protection and conservation of our natural ecosystems. So kind of same dialogue as the last one. Is there anything that's top of mind for you all that we should be focusing on? on.

1:09:39Uh

1:09:39Commissioner Weightman. Thank you. So We heard about homelessness this morning and I think the east side of the county. It is probably as high as it's ever been, at least to the Noticeable to the eye visual eye. When it comes to I look at a thriving community and when you s maintain public health and safety Homelessness fits in kind of bucket one and bucket two with a hands of quality of life. Um I

1:10:10really want to understand. And Commissioner Oak alluded to this several you know, in different conversations throughout the Yeah. I really want to understand our options. I I want to be as disciplined as possible with how much money we throw at it because we're taking valuable Resources from our taxpayers. no choice of their own. This government takes their money and we're we're putting it towards people who don't give Two rips. about

1:10:41other people's property, businesses. They don't care about themselves. They don't care about this county. They don't care about what they're doing. And so I want to be very deliberate and uh aggressive on how we tackle this problem. Like what are our options can we

1:10:59It's really a family problem. We find their next kid and we give 'em a bath, something to eat and and give them a bus ticket or a train ticket to their next akin and they can't deny 'em. This these folks that are doing what they're doing here is not Should not be our taxpayers' problem. This is a family problem, and their families need to take care of that. They don't need to burden Our tax dollars. Um you know, and so I I'm I'm I'm getting Uh More and more frustrated by the

1:11:29day. with his cohort. Um Yeah, I really you know, we have it's gonna cost some money, but I wanna invest anything in 'em because they don't care. Um and so we should send them send them back to a family member or something. I just wanna understand what our options are Deliberately, that way we know when we can make the hard decisions, if need be, that this board needs to make. I think we've broadly gone around this topic, but we haven't narrowed

1:11:59down and defined what we can do. uh as a board, not necessarily from a sheriff's perspective, what our obligation is and what we can do to make something happen to because I don't necessarily agree with whether a property owner is here or they're out of state or another country I have some reservation on finding property owners when other people consciously make a decision to trespass on their property and do what they're doing. We have

1:12:29the right in this society to own land. It's not always the landowner's fault. that people from other places come in and do what they do on those properties and impact other people. Um so that's a a uh you know we were talking about finding a landowner, that sort of thing. Uh I'm hesitant with that. So I really w want to narrow down and have a real answers on what we can do. and let it be known in Pasco County if we make the choice to Lay

1:13:00the hammer down on this subject matter. Folks who are transient through this county need to know the consequences. I am sure it will spread through the homeless communities on what the disciplinary action will be. Uh but I'm ready to Go to level ten. And put our foot down. And you know, make some real changes here. So I think that impacts one and two. Um And you know I know it's a good one. Could be a little bit of an uncomfortable conversation,

1:13:30but it needs to be had. Thank you, Chair. Madam Chairman Mariano.

1:13:34You know, to talk about years ago when we looked at what others were doing with the homeless and one of the programs we looked at was at San Francisco, which I did not want to copy. Uh their most successful service they did with all the millions and billions of however much money they spent, um, was actually, as you just said, shipping people back to where they came from. And I will tell you I know that we've been victimized by people from other places bringing their people to here. And they come here. I don't want to be the beacon for the homeless to come. Nope. Take care of our own, et cetera,

1:14:04but anyone from a different place. And I know we did this with the with the United Way a few years ago. We put like thirty or forty thousand dollars aside so they could ship 'em out. The sheriff loves the idea as well. I think it's a program to go with and and make it easy. Um talking to Pastor Jen the other day, she had some people from out of town up in Virginia. They've got next to kin. They'll be for like two more weeks and they're going back up. That's I think one of the ultimate approaches. The other thing that we did, years ago we put a panhandling ordinance which didn't work. Uh we then put the right-of-way safety units in

1:14:34place. I will tell you I I have to text Pat Phillips continually over and over again. These guys will go out there, they'll work after five. We've got to do something after five. We've got to do something on Saturdays. We've got to do something on Sundays. When they can stand out there and they leave their trash everywhere, right? And that's a bad blight on the community. They leave their trash there and they stay out there. They make money doing it. They keep doing it. We've just gotta we've gotta crack down on that. Um I'll give you another idea. Years ago someone brought up the idea of Brazilian

1:15:05pepper is invasive species. How do you really implement that on people? Uh but I think Maybe we should look in and Mr. County Attorney, if you can kind of think this through a little bit for us, uh maybe there's a way we can put in this ordinance if there is trespassing found and you do have homeless people there, we put some type of invasive species ordinance a place where they gotta get rid of them? Because Brazilian peppers where they can hide around the Brazilian peppers real easy.

1:15:27I thought you were calling the people invasive.

1:15:29No, no, no. No, but those invasive species make it easy to hide. I see many properties going up and down like on a little road. They clean 'em they make 'em they clean out. So they don't go in there. It's good for them, it's good for the landowner, it's good for us as well. So if we can work on something like that, that may be another bit of help. But I I agree that it is a big problem. Uh but if you keep giving them away where they can stay in the woods and do their drugs, they're gonna stay in the woods and do their drugs.

1:15:55Chair starting.

1:15:56Uh Commissioner Yeah.

1:15:58uh to go about how to s straighten some of that up. Some of the property owners need to trespass people.

1:16:04Yeah.

1:16:05I've had 'em tell me personally on the phone they're out of state or whatever and they're willing to trespass. And I've worked with uh Chase Daniels on this issue. We get the okay that he'll trespass when we find somebody on that property, yet when we call him about trespassing him, He he walks away. So you can't do anything with it if you don't follow the law to be able to trespass people and the the landowners that own some of this

1:16:35land that are trespassing on. do not do their part to make sure they get off that land. But uh

1:16:43And I agree.

1:16:47example, we had a landowner who lived out of state. And we've had one that lived out of the country on US nineteen. at that old Helen Ellis site and I mean That was a dump. Right as you're coming into the county on US nineteen. I mean That's not what we want to present and we could not go and evict them

1:17:08right

1:17:08because it was private property. And he hadn't signed that um trespass agreement. So I I think we need legislation that gives us more tools. But um Commissioner Weightman, I under I understand your frustration and um I I see it too, but I just wanna be careful to paint all of them With the same brush. Because I I'll never forget when I was at uh Home Depot a couple years ago and a young father uh was there with his wife and two kids and they were looking for a

1:17:39tent. um the kind that you take to a soccer soccer field and um or a diff no a camping tent and that the kind they sell the soccer field type tents at Helm Depot and I heard him saying, describing what kind of tent he needed because he was going to move into Starkey Wilderness Park. And I went Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. and I had a conversation with him and he said he had gotten sick Missed one paycheck. Fell behind in his rent. and

1:18:09was evicted. and he didn't have the money saved up to move into another place with down payment and um security deposit. And so now he and his young family were homeless. So And but he still had his job. So You know, there are cases where um people need just a little bit of a helping hand and I'm so glad we have that place up in uh on youth on youth lane. Is that where it is? But then we have the other ones that Don't

1:18:40care. Um, they wanna live in the woods. They don't uh want anyone to tell 'em what to do and they like living that way. And so Uh I just want to be careful that we have we have both situations going on and I think the ones like that young family are the easiest ones to help. They don't need a lot. They just need a little bit. The ones that don't care. and uh trash everything and do drugs and Rob and steal. There's gotta the we need to get rid of those guys.

1:19:10So I will say it just using your example of that family, there are organizations like One Community Now that will help, let's say, put displaced people like that in a hotel for however long. They'll even help them with a down payment. So I think I I I think there's two different types of

1:19:29Yeah. When we helped that young family they called they called Marcy's office and they got into a uh into temporary housing and then they got permanent housing. So

1:19:38I think that'll come out in a wash. We're going to be able to do that Come up. With a very strict policy. If you're gonna talk to these people, there's gonna be interaction. We will then find out. What kind of level of situation or homelessness they're in? But until then. I mean we need very deliberate action, very swift action, and not some

1:20:03This thing, you know, thirty days at a time. I mean I think we can move pretty pretty quick, I would think, on figuring out where somebody is. And then it's just getting that process down and you'll find those situations and then you identify it and then we address it as they come. But until we we have a very disciplined process I think that Uh it mm You know, it'll take longer for f examples like that family to get help because We're not getting there. Timely enough or for whatever reason. So I think it's

1:20:34just a matter of us taking that big step forward. and having some really uh real decisive policy to figure out what's go what's what what's going on there. And uh I'm not opposed to the What Commissioner Mariano's saying it It's probably more feasible. Um and if the sheriff likes it, takes pressure off his organization of being distracted with Dealing with situations like that and putting his officers in a dangerous dangerous spot. So um I just I just think this year. uh uh

1:21:05i it's it's time for us to really narrow down on that subject of what we're gonna do and how we're gonna do it and to understand obviously the legalities around it.

1:21:16So maybe that's uh something that we will reserve for a uh workshop or deeper dive into how we're gonna do that.

1:21:28All right.

1:21:35Right.

1:21:40Mm.

1:21:42There we go. All right, sorry for my technological issues, but I got us on to the third focus area. So the third and final focus area of our strategic plan is around driving economic growth and prosperity. So the addressable challenges here are meeting affordable and attainable housing needs. Our stressed communities, and some supporting our small business and entrepreneurship. And so when we do a dive into the pamphlet, you will see those three specific goals around these areas are increase the supply of affordable

1:22:13and attainable housing inventory, support the redevelopment of stressed communities, and increase the support of our small business and entrepreneurship.

1:22:23So same kind of question as before. Anything on here that's a little bit more pressing than the others that we should be kind of leaning in in this upcoming budget cycle?

1:22:35Does anyone want to discuss anything on this one?

1:22:38Madam Chairman So I know we got an ag agenda and we just passed about mobility fees. I think we need to f really try to focus on helping these small businesses uh not have to pay large fees, try to help them, encourage them with their economic development, but I don't think it's directly with our budget itself, but I think that's a a great direction for us to look at as we go.

1:22:57So um so you know I spoke to David Engel about this you know we all have we're all throwing ideas out on our HUD money. um if it comes through. Um one of the ones I threw out there was there were a lot of signs damaged in the hurricane um and uh of small small businesses and can we use some of that money to help them fix their non conforming signs and and and whatever else may have been damaged on their building facades or whatever and

1:23:27help them It's my my cup. Yeah.

1:23:33And um and and help these small businesses so that's something they're we'll check.

1:23:38That's a great idea. I I actually had uh uh the Elks up in Hudson had their side damaged and they want to try to do something for small to keep their revenues going in. So they asked about their sign uh some possible fencing as well. So I think it's a great idea.

1:23:50Yeah. I I agree. There's it's the I was surprised to learn how expensive it is to engineer and build a sign. I mean you talk about a b a bone acre around a business's small business's neck That's one right there.

1:24:06Yeah.

1:24:07And now we

1:24:07have money to help them.

1:24:08So We can I think that might be a nice fit. And I think that needs to be for whether their sign was damaged. damaged or non conforming, something figure out a way for for it needs to be universal, I think.

1:24:23So I'm gonna I'm gonna float another idea. Sorry, Madam Chair.

1:24:27Go ahead.

1:24:27Uh so stressed communities. I think everybody on the coast that got hit by these storms is stressed right now.

1:24:33Yeah.

1:24:33Right? We're just getting them go through the permitting process, they're getting turned over. with David Allen's help hopefully a bit quicker and and we'll get more success with that. Um But One of the things about becoming resilient with housing is I want you I want to think I want you guys to think about this a little bit. Senate Manor's a really nice community, right? Well-maintained, mobile homes, etc. The ones in the back of the community They were sitting a little bit lower. They got Nailed. Let's say just if you get two feet you're

1:25:03nailed.

1:25:07if they sat just like two feet higher, three feet higher, They'd have probably been dry like the front of the park. Sundance Lake would probably be another one. Uh I know places. Is that west

1:25:18of n I don't know where that is?

1:25:19Is that west of nineteen?

1:25:22So you want to keep mobile homes west of nineteen?

1:25:24Well here's the thing. If people have their home, it's the only thing they've got. And let's say I mean you got families generational, like three generations living in Senate Manor. They bring their friends down, they come, they come. It's an inexpensive place to live. So

1:25:37what about um Taking those lots and letting the habitat come in and build 'em a better a better house. More resilient on the coast.

1:25:45Um you know when the when the time comes for the mobile to come down, maybe. But if they'll live in there and it's a viable structure and look. Through the storm? Very little damage in there. It's just the flooding. So if they were just up higher, just think about all the time and money Title Base and FEMA spent going through there. If those things are up like three feet higher, and I'll tell you what, I got people in Single Cove, that area, You got it's a community. These people have lived there for years. I just don't

1:26:11think mobile homes should be in a flood zone AE zone of

1:26:16zone. Let me let me keep going because there's more to what I'm gonna get to. So for those that want to stay there, it's their home, it's still America. They want to stay there? Why am I gonna take them out? Because I got FEMA rules of 25%. If they want to stay there, and I can save FEMA and the families just

1:26:37But what what about giv giving them a house that helping them get a more stable house? I'm

1:26:42gonna

1:26:42get to that next.

1:26:45But so so the other thing to think about is you get some of these homes that let's say their concrete block, et cetera, if you raise them up Uh to the BFE and a and just above. It's like two hundred grand plus, right? You get an older house, you got it sitting up there. Not as much value, but it's safer, right? If it was up five feet, maybe it's less money, I don't know. You've also got the opportunity as we look at it to make it more resilient. Now let's say that I got someone who's gonna weigh if I put a bigger incentive

1:27:15out. to go take, okay, if you tear your old house down or your old trailer down, you raise something up, we put more money into it. What that does and I long term if they can afford to do it, some can, some can't. It would help make that decision made to go and I got a couple of people are doing it. They're tearing down their house. They had to make sure they got to the 49%, tearing down the house and putting a brand new one up. Fully modernized. Now yeah, I think if we could look at putting a huge chunk of money For the housing part we got coming up for these stressed communities. you would improve

1:27:45your tax base tremendously. You would give them a better place to live. And if you look at Gulf Harbors on the far side, Like after the storm? I think I saw one or two houses with stuff in it. They're probably bottom floor. Nothing else in there.

1:27:57Yeah.

1:27:58That's the type of thing if you raise everybody up and give them the opportunities. So I think it's a long discussion. But for the housing part of that C D B G, I think it's we should look at all those three options.

1:28:07So I am sure that um after we have our Friday meeting. that we will have more discussion on this and I'll save it for um Let's save these deep discussions on

1:28:23Yeah, I'm and again, I want to take advantage of the budget because it's a lot of budget.

1:28:31I don't know if you saw that. I think it happened last night.

1:28:34Yeah, we're we're working with Congressman Bill Arakis's office to understand what that means. There's still a lot of all is all, but whether All will remain all remains to be seen. So it's so it's on the CD

1:28:46basket recovery. All right. So that's I think it's a great time for discussion because I t I tell you, I think he would look at this to say, okay, let's get smart with this money. So I think that's that's I'm okay with that to to make sure we get it right.

1:28:57Good Commissioner Weightman. With thank you, Chair. With that and to Commissioner Oriano will still mouth. I'd like to know whether or not it's not a little bit more than a if we have to be in the national flood insurance program for a house, for a homeowner to qualify for that type of help or not. I still When we brought it up during our legislative workshop, I s I still Would really like it. To understand more about the national flood insurance program. Wow. I'm seeing it benefits the county. I

1:29:28am not convinced That being a part of that program is the best thing. for our property owners and our home and business owners in our county. uh based on the percentage rules of what's home or building is totaled or not versus what they're going to get on their insurance when they make a claim cost re etcetera.

1:29:51And really I'd like to understand this before next hurricane this hurricane season If being a part of that program is is Worth it or not for our our citizens in in in the long run. So

1:30:04we'll get into that one too. And um yes.

1:30:07Yeah, actually we'll that'll be part and parcel for the February workshop of some of the things we need to talk about it. I think it is worthwhile and we'll we'll get into the reasons for that, but uh we'll we'll have that conversation so the board can understand that better.

1:30:19Okay. So we're gonna keep on with the budget. Um but the

1:30:25Yeah.

1:30:28Yes, thank you for your very rigorous dialogue and conversation around our strategic priorities. I think you gave us a lot to chew on and nugget through as we go through the budget process, so thank you. All right, so now we before we get into the next bit of discussion, which is around taxation, we wanted to highlight some of the work that's been accomplished to date and what the expectation on work accomplishment throughout this fiscal year will look like for the new roads rehabilitation services MSTU that the board adopted

1:30:59at the forward fiscal year 25. All right, so to date we're hovering around 30% execution, but I hear that we're looking to fully execute the money allocated for this program for this year by quarter three. Which is kind of a big deal, right? That's pretty awesome. So we were talking a little bit earlier in this board meeting about how this county does a good job of Putting the money to work. I think this is a great example of how we've been putting the money to work. And so the next two slides are

1:31:29gonna compare what were we able to accomplish with the MSTU versus the old PVAS program that this MSTU was replacing.

1:31:36Fireworks should come up go off when you show this Pew

1:31:39pew. Pew pew. That was it. I did it. You're welcome.

1:31:55All right, All right, so and Jason, feel free to save me at any point. I'm here for it. Um but yes, you wanna come do these slides? He's like, Amy, look I'm gonna save you already. So you did fireworks and we're done? Oh what's this? That's your clicker. Oh cool. I don't know when you wanna

1:32:10move

1:32:11on.

1:32:11Um Good morning members of the board. Um Chairman Starkey. Uh thank you again for making this program happen. Um your leadership is really showing up out in the community. Uh we have um already executed on thirty percent of of the available funds. We're hitting all the districts. We're doing all our different strategies. We're working really hard out there to get the roads rehabilitated from reconditioning, microsurfacing, rejuvenation,

1:32:41mill and repaving. I did just want to say we are ahead of schedule and on top of it. I'm not committing to the bicorder three. Come on, come on. Um But we are That's a little ambitious. I I just wanna say we we're very much on target. We're we're really making a lot of progress. We will execute fully um this year. Um and I just wanted to come up to thank you again for for getting this program across the finish line for us.

1:33:08So I had asked at my meeting yesterday um if the hurricanes held you up. And Um because I know we had issues on the east side and west side. I said, well then they could could have been working on the middle. Um but I also know you had to fix some roads, Bay H Bay Head and a few others, so You the hurricanes did not slow you down starting October first?

1:33:31No. Um the we you are correct. We have we have um six roads on mainly on the east side that we are we are working to fix. Um separate issue. Um we're working on those. W what does not stop us at all uh moving full steam ahead on the road rehabilitation program.

1:33:48It's so awesome, right? All right. Thank you. Such a big savings. Just to say one thing.

1:33:54Um It's created people with dirt roads and roads that are not up to par even being paved. You're wondering when because everybody's paying. They're asking the question, when's my road gonna be paved? And I'm getting that a lot. I only need to reach out to Roden Bridge and they give me the right answers. Some of those homes and those areas there reached out for their home or roads to be paved.

1:34:23Well we have that in Odessa too, so um that's everywhere.

1:34:26And then I guess I would I would say that is uh that is you know I'll I'll I'll back it up. Remember when we first talked about the road MSTU, this is uh I don't know, it's north of a billion, south of a two billion dollar pro okay, three billion dollar problem. And so depend you know, and right now we've we've authorized funding at about fifteen million. So again, divide fifteen into three billion and that's how many years it'll it'll take. But but that's okay. You know, right now public works has got their their feet

1:34:57on the ground. Again, I've challenged them quarter three 'cause I want to see those execution rates be solid so that way if citizens do want More and they want to increase priorities, there's ways we can we can do that obviously. Because remember we

1:35:10picked a lesser number for that. Yes, we we we picked

1:35:13up three level, which is perfectly fine for a new program. I think that's I think it's wise. That was part of the problem. Well, right, but I but but I mean still that's that's a wise way to wade in, and so we'll we can continue to wade further if if uh this board or a future board wants to do that. But kudos to public. works for doing it. And really the two slides, thirty-seven roads at seventy eight thousand per lane mile. And go back to the one before. And I'll use six roads, five hundred and twenty one thousand per mile. That's what we were doing with PVAS, because we were rebuilding roads essentially. No bad so we're we're getting ahead

1:35:43of the game. So I wish we had done

1:35:45this.

1:35:50Right.

1:35:51We

1:35:51go

1:35:51through all

1:35:51that expense.

1:35:53Yeah. Yeah. And and remember too on the on the investment on the next slide. Um as we showed you when we were going through the um MSTU presentations, every dollar that you're investing now is extending the life of these roads. Yeah. So you're making an investment in the whole road network.

1:36:10So I think everyone now has hope.

1:36:12Right.

1:36:13Road and Bridge is doing a great job with this program and it they've been moving. Uh I know in my desk we got a F D O T road, which is County Road fifty two that F D O T promised to pave. They're in that process right now. I think they're near the school. coming back toward Dade City and all the way to the bypass section. Nice. That's gonna all get paid, but that's out of this program, that's a F D O T. Saying saying they were doing that road. So

1:36:42All right. Thank you.

1:36:45Jason guests here that wanna say something, I think, too. So

1:36:49I j I just wanna say uh Mike Brantford bringing Jason on was a what a great move. Uh you know, have having him w get all the things he gets done is amazing. Stormwater projects, paving projects. So thank you for the great work you're doing.

1:37:02I'd like to say one other thing we have is um I got a message and Postmaster stepped in on my phone. that I had somebody in the county basically with a threat.

1:37:17uh raises in taxes and all. And eight years I've been in the easy. On the board. Taxes have raised every year. Not because of us. us.

1:37:32For that eight years, everybody's home value increased. Which in turn they always save save our homes. They only pay three percent. But the fact of it is I basically the postmaster actually Cut that conversation. Off and said we're not accept that. But that was a threat.

1:37:54Mm.

1:37:54Not good. Okay.

1:37:58All right, so our next slide is for board discussion around our millage rates. So looking at, we just talked about the ROADS MSTU and what that was able to accomplish with the level of funding that the board adopted. But we do have other types of taxes out there. Is there any other type of tax we should be from the administrative perspective doing a deeper dive? Doing some research um Any direction or discussion around the parks capital maintenance where

1:38:28we adopted an ordinance but we adopted zero mills. Um Fire MSCU general fund. So this is just open for any kind of discussion the board wants to have on these topics.

1:38:40Um I County Administrator, were you about to say something?

1:38:43No, I was gonna just echo Amy's sentiments. This is just an open-ended conversation, you know, right now as it stands as we as we plan the budget. The numbers that you see up there are are where we're gonna are where we're gonna go and we're gonna continue to do business as usual unless there are other other things that the board is interested in. And to Amy's point, this is not necessarily saying go do this, but if you want us to explore something and bring something. So the Board can consider other means or methods of funding certain operations. We certainly can

1:39:13handle that.

1:39:17Um yes, thank you. Uh I was I was gonna say, you know, as we look at the budget coming up. I know there's a push keeping millage low, which is good, even cutting millage. Um Sometimes a struggle. What I don't want to see us do is go down these MS to use cutting our millage back, but bringing an MSTU on. Now what we just saw with the paving, it worked great, get rid of paving assessment programs that we have that we're not getting done, not getting approved. We're now doing something positive to get make some action happen. But what I don't want to see us do is to take

1:39:48a look at the right-of-way. our county population at ninety one percent funding all let's say your parks coming up. When you're letting now the nine percent of the cities not pay into that MSTU because they're not going to pay into it, but still use the parks. So I want you to be very cautious. When you push an MSTU, remember you're putting the burden on your county people at ninety one percent and letting the cities slide away. If you want to align the cities up to go contribute to I'm awful looking at that, but I don't want to isolate the county people to pick up the burden.

1:40:17Uh Commission Weightman. Thank you. Yeah, so Commissioner Mariano's point. I'm all for an all-encompassing parks MSTU. And exploring that. Well with any MS with MSTs I think generally It'd be good to know How much money from the cities actually move the needle? Or doesn't, right? So if we do an MSTU, whether it's for whatever line of business How much of the s you know,

1:40:47what what's the cities what are we actually losing out on? Is it a de minimis amount overall or is it truly something significant? I think that'd be good to know. If we have an MSTU, my expectation is if the city's uh wanna have a piece of whatever we're working on, then they need we need to come up with some level of interlocal agreement if this board does choose to go towards a path down an M STU depending on what that subject is. But I will I I am interested to pick up on

1:41:17last year. I I didn't like the structure of the parks maintenance MSU. I didn't like the structure at all.

1:41:25the generational fixes and growth that we need to have in our park system. I still think we need to look at an all-encompassing MSU for multiple reasons. One I think it protects the parks funding when times get bad, because we have to take multiple public comments and hearings so folks can actually have time and it's not just a swift hand of the board to just axe the parks budget, right? And that's what we've seen historically, which I view in M STU as a almost a a a sa a level of of safety bearer and deliberate thinking of

1:41:55how we're going to handle our parks. And we know Pasco's growing younger, so the demand for parks is a lot different than it was when Pasco had an older population. So I'd be interested if we could explore an all encompassing MSTU, what it would mean based on what I discussed last year But also understand what that delta would be that we would lose from the cities. Um and if you know the cities wanted to participate in it, how we could get them to participate in it, right? I don't know if that'd be a mandatory thing, but maybe

1:42:25we're not going to be able to do that. I'm sensitive to Commissioner Mariano's point, he has a good point. Uh I'd just like to see what roughly that number could could potentially be.

1:42:31Thank

1:42:31you.

1:42:32Maybe we are to put a toll at the all the roads coming into Pasco where we get paid for uh because there's a lot of people, not just our cities, but there is a lot of people from outside our county coming into our parks.

1:42:46And they're getting nicer. I mean the superpark's gonna be huge.

1:42:51So so I have a I do have a concern that we did zero on the parks uh maintenance fund last year. Um You know, he Keith, for the parks that we have now, I think Keith needs seven to eight million dollars a year and he's getting one million. So we are going to slide backwards like we did when those parents came from East Pasco in their little league field and they said they were turning the power on and off with a two by an eight-foot board, two by four, because they were getting electrocuted

1:43:22when they flipped the switch. So I don't want to go back to that. And we're adding more parks. So we are going to have to come up with money for his maintenance fund. We have to. Um it's a it's a life safety thing. So I'm willing to look at your suggestion. I have no idea the pros and cons. Um but I'm willing to look at it s uh in order to arrive at some kind of solution where we get him another six to seven million dollars a year. Um and I I

1:43:52want to be conscious I have Judge Crane and the public defender and I think Sarah's here. And and the public the public what's the other one? State attorney. Um And Bruce and I wanna make sure they they have come here and they have opportunity to speak so Um We're gonna move kind of quickly, but go ahead, Commissioner Mariano.

1:44:14You know, Us five vote on the budget. If we set up parks to have more money, We control that, we control it. We have full control. So we don't need an MSTU that keeps the cities out of paying into the parks. We can control it in the budget. We tell the administrator here's where it's gonna go. It goes. You don't need to create another tax. You just gotta make sure you keep the millage where you need it to be to fund it.

1:44:36If if if it takes a certain amount of votes to get somewhere, I'm willing to look at whatever it takes to get there. So and maybe your argument's gonna win, but you know, this is America and we'll have that debate and hopefully we'll move forward.

1:44:49So I'll bring a regular item back to to discuss pros and cons of How we're doing things to MSTUs.

1:44:57But you certainly don't we don't want to open up that superpark and then have to close it because it's dangerous.

1:45:02Yeah, right. We don't want to do that. Yeah. But the fact of it is Uh We a few years back we all approved Uh bond issues. and we put it on a ballot and the citizens actually approved what we would have approved ourselves. ourselves. But the citizens voted up.

1:45:22I mean percentage.

1:45:24Which was a another discount on housing, homestead, It did not pass in the county, which is Means I can tell you this, we got the best citizens in the world and they understand what it takes to get things done. So um Keith,

1:45:40I didn't know if you wanted to say anything. Because I'm gonna bring up another MSTU that I th or or impact fee that I think we need to talk about and that's public safety, but

1:45:51If that's the case, you know, look at the options to put it up to the voters. Let the voters decide.

1:45:57And there's that that possibility too and we'll bring all those ideas back.

1:46:00But if we're gonna increase the MSTU I'd please ask you to have better security at our

1:46:06meetings.

1:46:07Um I've already been warned.

1:46:09On the next page um is the uh The um criminal courthouse. and all these capital expenses that are needed. I personally think it's a shame we didn't have a public safety impact fee. Going. uh with all these new houses here with uh put strain on all these all these issues here and we could have been collecting money towards that and I think that's something

1:46:39that we need to look at. Um I've also talked to the sheriff, you know, about a public safety MSTU. Um and I think one day we're gonna need to get there. But certainly I think the starting point for me is is some type of public safety or pu um first responder, whatever you want to call it, um impact fee. We gotta start collecting money for that that courthouse.

1:47:05That's been that's been a need for a long time. So um and uh so I if you guys wanna come up now and speak Are you guys okay with uh them coming up? I think they came here to

1:47:17Well I've never been accused of being shy, so I

1:47:19guess I'll figure it out.

1:47:23I'm Sean Crane. I am the Chief Judge of uh Penelless and Pasco County Sixth Judicial Circuit and proud graduate of Gulf High School. Um I stand before you today once again, as you know, uh talking about as as as Madam Chairman has just indicated, the need for a uh a criminal courthouse in the center part of our county. You all know uh you've heard me before, we were at the workshop before and I think um as as Madam Chairman has just pointed out as um Uh Commissioner Oakley has pointed out we've

1:47:53kicked this can down the road long enough. Um it is a need in our county. I will tell you that we have the worst ratio of uh courtrooms to judges in the state of Florida. I will tell you that we are and depending upon who you talk to, the third fastest or fourth fastest growing county, which I don't need to explain to you all in the country. with these people when when for instance when the sheriff comes before you and S you know, indicates all the pressures on them because of the increased growth, I can tell you. Those people where

1:48:23do they go? They come to the courthouse. Um when the when all the other constitutionals come before you and ask for the and talk about the stressors placed upon them based upon the increase in our community uh population, where do those people eventually wind up if you d if you pass away and you have a will that needs to be probated or you you're having a dissolution of marriage or there's issues with children, um I can go on and on, civil disputes, contract disputes, all of those people wind up in the courthouse. And what uh

1:48:54when that property was was purchased and and uh once again, Madam Chairperson, you've nailed it when you said this has been going on a long time, about twenty three years I've read through notes where it was agreed that this was needed. This this county and prior county commissioners uh county commissions have gone forth and d and paid for studies to say what does the county need as we come forward in the future. And every one of those studies has indicated a central courthouse is a priority. Now when they used to rank 'em, they would

1:49:24say that it's one A, one B with the GL or it's it's the number one priority. Then at the last go around, they didn't rank them one, two, three, four, five, but they did indicate we were at w that the central courthouse was a high priority. And these are surveys that you all paid for. And this is the information that consultants that you hired are telling you. These same consultants are telling you things like the courthouse in the east side of the county will not satisfy the requirements for a criminal courthouse. And I can tell you that at some point in time as

1:49:54good a job as the sheriff does and the court security does over there, there is gonna be an issue and that issue is gonna n is not gonna be pretty because the way the public, the jurors and everybody interact with inmates and people, uh family members and stuff, and uh just the design of the courthouse is is will not well as I said, will not satisfy the requirements for a criminal courthouse. And that's by the county's own study. Has found that to be true. Um I I think that there's uh you know w the words that we heard used early

1:50:24on by Amy were we're booming. Well we are booming and with that boom comes people, with people comes come problems. And we're talking about community safety. We're talking about a courthouse that would be dedicated for for criminal needs for the criminal courthouse. And what that does is that extends the life of the courthouse on east side and west side. And that extends those that life of those two courthouses exponentially. And uh so so not only it it's fiscally responsible because it extends the life of those, it

1:50:55also is a need in the center part of the county. As I said, I started reading notes from John Gallagher, you know, way back when when he said we purchased that land specifically for a jail and a courthouse. That's why that land was purchased. Uh very important just to put it in perspective a little bit. Uh west side of the county we have 13 judges, nine courtrooms. In the east side of the county, we have nine judges with four and a half courtrooms. People have the right to go in and have their their matters heard and have the right to pr appear before a judge in a courtroom

1:51:25and and unfortunately we cannot accommodate These are um These are the life safety issues. These are safety issues for the commute members of our community. I'm gonna I'm gonna you've all heard me uh talk about uh the importance of this courthouse uh before so I'm gonna let the If I w can just defer for a little bit my time to uh both Bruce Bartlett, our state attorney, and Sarah Malo, our public defender, and then I may come back for some brief words after that. Okay.

1:51:55Think

1:51:58Good

1:51:59morning, Mr. Partner. Good morning.

1:52:02So Speaking of of the other courthouse and it's kinda ironic that you this comes up this way this time But uh I was with Bernie and we were involved in discussions and actually plans were kind of formulated for what the courthouse might look like because of the importance to tie tie the courthouse by a tunnel or a projected pathway that would be closed in that they could take in people in and out of jail, which would save all this transportation money. Evidence, dock, blocker and everything else is there in that in

1:52:32that same compound And uh but ironically it abruptly stopped even when funding was discussed right down to the amounts of money they were gonna use, but it was stopped because of jail expansion was necessary and it put it brakes to it. That was it, courthouse, bum, done. And they went ahead and did the jail expansion. The jail expansion happened because what's happening now is crime is booming. You look at the cost for public safety up 117 percent. Okay, what that means, the sheriff's

1:53:02working harder, he's gotta cover all that. That means that he's gonna make arrests that they're gonna need a courthouse to put those people in, and they're gonna need more prosecutors to handle putting them in there. Without the prosecutor part of this equation. It doesn't work. So it it's just all part of the i it's like a it's all one big thing. One triggers the other, it triggers and triggers and triggers. We all do and and Pasco is growing like crazy. I've watched the crime rates come up here. Now we've got a lot of people. No, ours went

1:53:29down.

1:53:30Yeah, right. Well

1:53:31That's what I've been told.

1:53:32All I've been doing is indicting people for p killing.

1:53:37And uh very rarely. Had uh one this weekend. Just had one Stabbing a last night here was.

1:53:44I just wanna make comment I'm sure that your caseloads uh for your prosecutors they're very stressed and with our population growing as well.

1:53:52And you all have been very kind to help us with the space issue with the Liberty Building, which now we've occupied because we have not only the criminal aspects of things, we have child welfare legal services. But we're with the new expansion with the Liberty Building, we're down to two offices, zero places to put a clerk anywhere in the office, uh like a secretary or that. And then the same thing in in the Dade City side. And it's it's that over there is going The building and the homes and stuff, and it's gonna bring all this in. So all I'm saying, and I don't wanna you know kinda repeat

1:54:23everybody's thing.

1:54:24We know we just have to figure out where we get two hundred million dollars.

1:54:32Yeah.

1:54:35So

1:54:41the cops affects me, which affects her.

1:54:43Yeah

1:54:44and so

1:54:45And I don't like the idea of the judges and the jurors mixing with the criminals uh at the East County uh courthouse. That's dangerous.

1:54:54So good morning. I'm Sarah Mole, your public defender. Thank you for your time and opportunity to uh support the judge and his mission to get us a central courthouse. You know, every mission needs a champion and he certainly is our champion on this. But logistically thinking about things, I think you bring a good point as far as staffing issues. And so if you're just running office, you think about having a Dade City office and a Newport Ritchie office. So you have to have supervisal levels on both of those office. If you combine that, you can, and Bruce and I are in a

1:55:24similar position. The county has grown, I think 30-whatever percent. Everybody knows that, right? RFT. E's or full-time employee positions have not grown. So we are trying to manage that population growth with the same amount of people that we've had before the population growth. So one of the ways you can do things more efficiently efficiently is to consolidate that, and then you can reduce some of those levels of management and direction, even though you would have a larger group underneath it, you could consolidate that supervisor labor. So

1:55:54that's just one of the economic benefits of uh consolidation.

1:55:58So what would we do with the east the courthouse on the east side then? Are you saying

1:56:02civil.

1:56:02Oh, just okay, civil. So we'd still use it.

1:56:05Okay. Right. Not my problem. Okay. So I do think that that I think the point of using those buildings then and reducing the criminal workload there is that then they are more sustainable because the civil is growing as well. So where are you going to put the civil? So you need that. space as well.

1:56:22And this two hundred and two million number, where's that coming from? from? Who came up with that number?

1:56:30Yeah, that's the estimate that our facilities management department has has put on put on, you know, using just some Uh what I will call rough order of magnitude estimates based on square footage.

1:56:40Right. And if you think of the current situation, you have inmates and so I have young attorneys that are in a courtroom and I think the judge is accurate and this is a disaster waiting to happen. The security and the Sheriff's Office does a wonderful job of ensuring that. Um, but it really is a poor situation. Uh and it's complicated then to convey offers and to have conversations with your client when you have twelve people and a courtroom full of people and a judge all in that same space. It just really isn't efficient and doesn't work very well.

1:57:09So board members when you look down here at the funding mechanisms, um, you know, we're gonna have to have a Uh uh uh uh Mike, we're gonna have to have a deeper dive into this long term capital discussion and we we need to discuss this and um Have we seen where in the state appropriations have helped build a courthouse?

1:57:30I'm kind of yes and no. I what I would say to that is um they they have helped uh to some extent, but certainly not to any any great extent, with the exception of some of the district courts of appeal. For instance, the in in St. Pete now they're building the second district court of appeal, the Bernie McCabe District Courthouse based

1:57:53But

1:57:53didn't that money get vetoed? Did he get was he able to put it back in? I think that money got vetoed.

1:57:59Yeah. Mm-hmm.

1:58:00Oh, but got back in?

1:58:01Okay. Yeah. And it's and they're building it right now. Um and uh there's what's interesting is is there's a similar project kind of going on in Pinellas to build a civil courthouse down there right off Omerton Road because there's a there's a need for it down there because they're gonna move their civil courthouse. So so they're kind of parallel things going on. I will say that once again it's important uh economically to show that the two sides the the two on each side of the county will be for civil. They will accommodate uh for the n

1:58:32for the It's foreseeable future, any of the growth for in civil court, it will accommodate any growth there as well. Um and w once we have that central uh Pasco courthouse built. And um it it'll the the transportation issues will be kind of solved because it's literally from the front of the property to the back of the property. But uh uh Bruce uh Bartlett's correct when he says because of the jail expansion and because of the layout of the campus, that's when we the courthouse got removed.

1:59:03from the um uh got removed from the uh being attached to the jail. And up to that point in time, before it was seen that that the growth was such that there was gonna need to be such a jail expansion. We had uh the county uh the Board of County Commissioners had given us the green light to go ahead with design and and uh kind of build plans and as you all are aware we spent uh quite a bit of money on that. And uh and I I appreciate the county commissioner's thought after that because

1:59:33Uh the last email sent to our former Chief Judge, Judge McGrady, from a reporter was they just left in one of your workshops and the county commission was trying to determine how to uh satisfy their promise to the their promise of a new courthouse because of this to the people of Pasco County because of the necessity of that courthouse. Well but once we got removed how that was gonna happen and unfortunately after that it just kinda uh died on the vine. But it is a public safety issue. I appreciate all the um thought process

2:00:04and all of the uh time and effort you've all expended to that. I will, and I've already indicated to Commissioner Oakley, I've commented I've I've I've uh cited his comment many times. When he said at our last uh budget workshop we kicked this can down the road too long. We need to get s something done. So um I'm looking for uh Uh Board of County Commissioners hopefully who are have the Have the foresight and the courage to put their names on the side of a building that'll serve this community for decades to come. So

2:00:33quick question on the bonds. Um If we were to go to a bond, I don't want what's our deadline to advertise? Just I I just wondering if we have to have a discussion quicker than

2:00:45are you referring to a general obligation bond that you put to the voters? Um I'm I don't know offhand, Jeff, if you know or

2:00:53Do you know the answer to

2:00:54that? We could get back to the board on that, I would imagine I mean I'm not sure

2:00:58that you can put it on the munis, so

2:01:02You'd probably probably a year out from

2:01:06Yeah, you're probably

2:01:08Our challenge with appropriations is I think um the the rule is now you have to have fifty percent for an appropriation. So we're gonna okay, well this is a discussion

2:01:18for us. I'm available for any time if there's a workshop, if there's a special session called or whatever uh of you all, I'm available, I'm available personally to meet with anyone anybody who has any questions. I I think it shows the importance of this, uh the fact that you all were gracious enough to invite me here today to be able to talk to you all and I'm I'm incredibly grateful for that opportunity. I'm incredibly grateful for the the two people standing behind me. If they're still there, um standing behind me who took time out of their day to be here and

2:01:48really uh uh stress the importance of this for the people of our community. I am a per I am a member of the of the Pasco County community, so this is obviously and as you all know grew up here, so this is near and dear to my heart as as just a a citizen of Pasco County. This is certainly something we need. And so um but uh I'm I'm at your disposal. Literally anything you need that I can help with, that I can supply, uh I am available. Uh we've already been meeting with uh with Mike, Eric and Andrew about this and uh trying to make sure we can we

2:02:18can put together the best uh uh package to present to you all that we could. And I'm certainly willing to continue to do that and like I said, I'm available to whatever you all need.

2:02:28Well thank you very much all of you for coming our guests. Commissioner Mariano,

2:02:33sorry. Judge, hang on for a second.

2:02:34Sure.

2:02:34So you know, going way back when, when they shut down the local jail right here, I thought it was a very bad move to have to transport prisoners back and forth. Uh seen it work in the quotos, I agree. It's not the right way to do it. It takes so much manpower, safety, et cetera. I'd like to see you work with our staff to get this number down though. We we definitely gotta get that number down. So Look to keep as simple as you can. Well,

2:02:58I think you're absolutely right. We want to be good stewards of the taxpayers' money. I'm in no this is in no way, shape, or form a Taj Mahal situation. Let's make sure we're very clear on that. The only thing the only thing I stressed and I recommended was that we if that we bit with that we build a shell out for twelve courtrooms, if we're gonna use eight for future development, we just have that shell and we can then grow Without and it's and it's much more cost effective um uh to just build those shells out, which is kind of what they did at the community uh at the uh criminal justice complex down in Pinellas. They

2:03:29just built out those shells until they were full and then eventually they had to actually build a separate annex because they were twofold but but I but that would be uh my suggestion would be uh you know we stood at Starkey Elementary and uh Starkey Elementary when we were standing there was already too small. Remember you guys had th there had to be budget an extra ten million dollars to build on to that. By the time um you know, the plans had started they put a shovel on the ground till it opened. They had to build uh my understanding was a ten million dollar. You talk about

2:03:57Starkey K eight?

2:03:58Yeah.

2:03:58Okay, yeah.

2:03:59So we were right. Is that where we had our last workshop meeting?

2:04:06At the at the cultural center.

2:04:08Yeah. Yeah, that's what I may have misspoke about the name of it. But but yeah, I mean it was already too small, so we need to kinda you know, I th I think be uh show good value and if nothing else, just maybe build it out a little bit bigger. But just a shell and no there's gonna be nothing fancy, uh we're not looking for anything fancy, just Just good common sense of that money. Yeah. We'll get to work on the chairman to figure it a little further.

2:04:30Twelve o'clock. I know.

2:04:35I'm just kidding. Um, so I th I think that's a a great approach. We've got a great opportunity. You got

2:04:40And I have a l

2:04:41um Senator Ed Hooper, appropriations chair. We've hired not only s I think a a great set of lobbyists for the state on all three levels, we've also got a federal lobbyist now I think is powerful. I think now's the time to put a good plan in place, make it fiscally as tight as you can. But efficient and available for growth and let's go try to work on it to get some funding because there's no way we can take that number down. But if we bring that number down and work together on it, we can hope work on funding and put a plan together.

2:05:08I think and I appreciate that. I'm sorry for interrupting before maybe it's force I have it from my old job from my job. Uh that where I where I want to clarify something. Um and I so I apologize for that, uh Commissioner Oakley and I have talked about this and it may come of no surprise to anyone here that last time I w walked up on Senator Hooper, he looked at me and said, You're gonna ask me for money, aren't you? And I said I am. So I'm leaving no stone I'm leaving no stone unturned. Like I said before, I'm like a bad penny. You're all aren't gonna get rid of me anytime soon. Well

2:05:35this this board and the one just previously before this one, um we have Фве стоп кекін на кен. When we've taken some hard votes here. P Bass is one of them and there's gonna be good results from that. Um and so I feel confident that we will find a solution. And um thank you so much. And we'll we'll work on that. That's my pledge.

2:05:56Thank you. Thank you all so much for that.

2:06:00All

2:06:00right.

2:06:00Thank you so much. Thank you very much.

2:06:02Yes, sir.

2:06:03So um did you have anything else? I kinda not you.

2:06:10No ma'am, it's just our conclusion and wrap-up.

2:06:12Yeah.

2:06:13So it'd just be a conclusion and wrap up slide. So I mean pretty much it. I

2:06:17kinda jumped ahead to your next page, so

2:06:19that's okay and we'll be back. There was a couple regular items that

2:06:25So we'll be back and we'll definitely be back in February. So without further ado, thank you all so much for your time, for your thoughtful discussion and your input going into our twenty six budget and we'll see you guys soon.

2:06:35Great. One of the things we talked about yesterday was the amount of people that are looking for tax abatements. I think we need to get some numbers together the next time we meet that we'll have those together to kinda look at 'cause a lot of people are filing to get a break.

2:06:48Yeah, as Amy said, those those uh that periods ends in one March, uh but we are we will be talking to the property appraisers web uh property appraiser to to see what that impact is and whether it's uh material or not. But it's a concern.