Comprehensive Plan Amendment (Consent) - CPAS23(23) Little Road – Providing for a Comprehensive Plan Amendment to the Future Land Use Maps (2-15 and Sheet 10) Changing from RES-1 (Residential-1 DU/GA) to PD (Planned Development) on Approximately 7.83 Acres of Real Property Located 500 feet North of the intersection of Little Road and Jasmine Blvd; and a Text Amendment Creating Subarea Policy FLU 7.1.82- Little Road PD; And A Map Amendment To The Future Land Use Map 2-9 Adding Subarea Map 2-9(82) Little Road PD. PC REVISED Agenda Page 3 of 5 File Number PDE25-0054
What the county recorded
Staff recommendation
Approve
No disposition in the minutes
The approved minutes do not say what became of this item. That is a gap in the record, not a decision. It is the normal state for 24% of items. Most of those are regular business and board reports that the minutes do not dispose of in writing. This archive never infers an outcome from the fact that someone called a vote.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Feb 20, 2025
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
What was said
Machine transcription of 1h 46m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 79% of 546 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Mr. Chairman, members of the LPA, my name is Ed Zodie and I'm with the Planning Services Department. Matter before you
If I can get it up here.
Is the proposed comprehensive plan amendment. Uh C P A S twenty three twenty-three for the Little Road Amendment.
This is a comprehensive plan on the right. From res one residential one dwelling unit for gross acre to P D. Plan development. On approximately seven point eight three acres. Located about four hundred and ninety-five feet north of the intersection, excuse me, of Jasmine Road and Jasmine Boulevard and Little Road. And there is an accompanying MPUD as well. Just a few notes, this item is consistent with the development pattern in the area. The concept plan does
demonstrate pedestrian connectivity, vehicle interconnects, as well as employment generating users. The plan specifically provides for the commercial to be located in the front, fronting on Little Road. with twenty-three town homes that are maximum of two stories in the rear.
I can't operate this thing. Here we go. Excuse me. As you see it's it is located in the embassy district of the West Market area and in an urban service area. The West Market uh area
Is consistent with the concept since it is providing mixed uses. The urban service area does permit more intense development, which is occurring here. And the embassy district speaks to creating neighborhoods with compelling spaces. In this case, if you've seen the site plan, the developer has proposed that there will be street scenes in the center lane between the two commercial buildings that the uh residents from the Townhouses would attend. And that would provide for Interactions.
The context map is serving a couple of purposes in this case.
Obviously demonstrates that the property fronts on Little Road, which is a hundred and forty five foot right-of-way arterial road. The um
The blue area that's on the map. was just approved on december tenth by the Board of County Commissioners, changing its c future land use to COM. which is consistent with the comp plan that it would front on an arterial. The New maps were just generated today so they'll be substituted in the package. And there are sidewalks at trails, as you can see. Transportation network providing access to the these as I said, it's a
archival road. The existing flu is res one. The proposed future land use is P D.
And the zoning for this. Location currently is E R.
Our position is that it is consistent with the Com plan uh with the P D Proposal. It does provide for the transitional land uses, the location for the commercial development on the arterial. uh as well as the West Market area. And we are recommending that the local planning agency find this consistent with the comp plan. And I'm delighted to answer any questions I can. Mr.
Chairman Mari It's really up to the Planning Commission, but you may want to consider opening the public hearing for the related MPD, which is I believe B C E six. Um if you're amenable to doing that you probably need to get what staff Do the presentation on the M P D as well before you take the applicants' comments and public comment? Okay. Or you can do two separate public hearing if you want, but but it it's really up to the planning.
Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Hudson.
Good afternoon, Planning Commissioner. This is Robert Irfing with the Planning Development and Economic Growth Department.
Mm-hmm.
All right, so the item before you today is the Little Road M PUD. It's PD E twenty five seven seven two one. And here's the location map generally located on the west side of the county within commission district four. And this proposal is a zoning amendment from ER, State Residential District, to MPUD, Master Plan Unit Development. To allow for the development of twenty-three townhome units and thirty-two thousand four hundred and fifty-two square feet of commercial and seven point eight three acres. This is located on the east side of Little Road, approximately
500 feet north, the intersection of Little Road and Jasmine Boulevard.
So here's the location map. And you'll you'll see to the north is the Learning Lodge Academy, a public K through eight charter school, and to the south is the four vacant parcels that recently approved recently had the com approved on the land use, as my colleague previously mentioned.
And here's the zoning map. The existing zoning is ER State residential. The existing zoning would allow for a total of eight dwelling units. The proposed 23 townhomes equates to a density of 2.94 dwelling units per acre, equating to a density increase of 1.94 dwelling units.
The proposed land use is PD as presented prior to this.
And here's a context map. Um and as my colleague mentioned, those four parcels directly south that are highlighted received a calm flu. on 1210, 2024, and are currently seeking a rezoning to the C One Neighborhood General Commercial District. And directly across the street at the northwest corner of Little and Jasmine, there's an existing Walgreens with the C One zoning district.
So here you'll see the master plan and you'll see the thirty-four thousand four hundred fifty two square feet of commercial located on the western portion with the twenty three townhomes on the eastern portion. Um just to note as well the applicant will be required to construct a two hundred and sixty five. foot northbound right turn lane at the project's access onto Little Road, and there will also be interconnects provided to the north and south as proposed. Um so here's the binding concept plan. So the binding concept plan shows the commercial buildings brought up to the front of the little road with the parking
shielded behind the commercial development with also on street parking to the north and south of both of the buildings. Um they're broken down into 17,226 square feet per building with pedestrian access to the commercial development. from the residential units and the twenty three townhomes are broken into three different typicals. Uh type 1 and 3 have one unit that is 30 feet in width and one that is 49 in width, and type three just switches these just depending on which side. The second typical is for the three unit product type.
With the
With forty-nine foot of width for the eastern and westernmost units and thirty feet for the unit in the middle. Um the townhome units townhome buildings will be limited to three units per building and shall not exceed two stories in height. Uh additionally, the applicant received round one comments prior to the issuance of PM twenty six. However, the applicant has agreed to the applicable standards of PM twenty six and the conditions of approval.
The applicant seeks a variation from L D C section nine oh one point six D eleven Street design and dedication, this is to not provide an interconnect to the east. PDE is in agreement with this variation as it meets the intent of the code, as there are existing single-family homes abutting the subject site to the east and make it not feasible for an interconnection to the east. And the applicant is providing interconnections to the north and south of the subject site.
And this comes to you with a recommendation of approval with conditions. Available if you have any questions.
Any questions? Uh
Have
a question.
Yeah.
Just uh concerning that connection to the north with the school there. I'm just wondering if that's gonna be a little bit more than a little bit. Hinder the uh Pick up and drop off.
And just Think about that maybe. Yeah,
absolutely. We actually walked out on the site and there is an existing fence, so they would definitely have to coordinate with with the Learning Academy and figure out how that would work. Sorry, I see your hand, but we're not ready for you yet.
Okay.
And I think the applicant may be able to speak to that better.
Yeah. Just as you know, 'cause when the in the pickup lines it gets long. And so just kind of circulates bottom. And if they have that connection there it might, you know, mess things up with their circulation. So just to keep in mind. Thank you.
Anything else?
Okay, I don't see anybody. The applicant present? Thank you. Mm.
Good afternoon. My name is Michael Hoffman. Um I am here representing advanced engineering. Uh Uh on behalf of the owner client. Uh Michael,
I'm s I'm sorry, we need your uh address as well.
[address removed] And you have
three four three three Six to five. And
you've
been sworn? You've been sworn.
Yes. Uh during the opening? Great. Yes. Thank you.
Okay. Uh now I had some charts. Uh I don't know if um those are available.
Who did you provide those to just so we know?
Yeah they they were provided to our our contact
Mr. Chairman I believe we have them, we're just opening them up virtually. Thank you, Liam.
While we wait for the charts to come up, I guess I'll just proceed with some comments to accelerate the schedule. The um as may have already been stated, the proposed Little Road mixed use development seeks a a rezoning from a a state residential ER to a master plan development M P U D. and a comprehensive plan amendment from res one. to to a P D to allow for mixed use development on seven point eight three acres here in Pasco County. The surrounding
vicinity has a current zoning. Of a state residential to the north, east. and partial of to the south, along with professional office to the south. and a planned unit development to the west. The future land use in the vicinity consists of residential one to the north, east, and southeast. Residential six to the west. The southwest corner was recently
approved for change to commercial Here recently in December 2024. This uh in our opinion supports our request for the front portion of our proposal here uh to be commercial.
And and the reason I I kinda wanted to wait for the slides because the vision for this property I think is very compelling, uh w when you
when
those slides come up.
Okay.
But I will proceed. Um The development consists of thirty-four thousand four hundred fifty-two square feet of commercial component. That's on the front portion of the property? And twenty three residential units in a mix of triplex and duplex villas. The project commercial component is allowed up to eighty percent and a density of five point two seven dwelling units per gross acre. The property to the west Across the street has a future
land use. designation of residential six Which allows for six dwelling units per gross acre. And therefore our proposed density of 5.27 DUs per acre uh is consistent with the surrounding area. Okay. So this is the first chart chart and this kind of illustrates uh you're looking Looking east from Little Road. On the left you see um On the left, on the right, you see two commercial buildings. You
you come into the site, there's a center driveway that then takes you to the back portion, which is the residential portion. And you'll also see some charts illustrating circulation to the right and around in a counterclockwise manner. But this kind of uh illustrates the front entry of the property. Next chart please. Okay. So I've already articulated showing the the location of the property, the 7.83 acres. the uh existing zoning ER and the future
land use. And naturally um We're requesting I've already articulated uh what we're requesting with the MPUD Uh next chart please.
So so this plan view Once again, you know, we have tri five triplex buildings and four duplex buildings, twenty-three total townhome villas, the thirty-four thousand square feet. But The compelling part of this chart Shows the circulation of the traffic. The parking behind the commercial buildings And then as you enter into the residential area there's a A retention pond in the middle. that will mitigate and be conform with uh all the stormwater management
district requirements. There's gonna be a landscape buffer all around the perimeter. So that there's no um concerns uh with with the uh related residents. Uh the the these are two story villas. We initially started with three stories and we reduced them to two stories. Um to uh address privacy concerns uh with uh adjacent properties.
And so one one other thought here is our vision too is that For example on a on a weekend you could sh you could shut off the middle portion uh in the commercial area and have art festivals or other community events, but you could still retain the circulation around the outer perimeter of the commercial section for uh for vehicles to circulate.
Next chart please.
This is just another visual of that same type of uh Entry way. Uh you know, we've we feel that this uh Live, eat, shop, play, reside concept, you know, to enhance um More walking and community uh I think is uh very b beneficial for this area.
Next short, please.
So this view is now you're you're standing in one corner of the residential area. Here again uh to enhance the view. The um The different villas, uh there are two Two villa buildings and three villa buildings. So that helps accentuate the aesthetics of the front. There's also some of them are side loaded versus front loaded. Uh once again to add to the diversity of the uh front elevation views. In the center you see the pond. And
you see the sidewalk going around the entire perimeter. So we've done our very best to make this a very appealing project.
Next chart please.
So this talks to the the West Market area um visions and mission statements. And If you think about uh
Uh indicate. I think what we're proposing here is consistent. with everything articulated uh in this uh policy FLU eight dot one dot one.
Next chart please.
So this is uh some policies regarding uh the comprehensive plan And here again uh these these different items here.
lend themselves to what is being proposed.
Next chart please.
So this is just some additional views to give you different perspectives.
uh the parking, the f the the flow of of the aisles Sidewalks, the elevation views.
Etcetera.
Next chart please.
Just a few more views. So in closing, I think uh I think what we're proposing here. I think will add a lot of value to this community.
Okay. Sir, did you want to address the question about the interconnect to the school? What was the question?
Uh Mr. Tanello had asked you about asked staff about The internet connect to the north to the existing school. And I think he wanted to know whether that had been coordinated in terms of their Drop off pickup.
What I can tell you is there's a dedicated right hand turn lane into this property. They should alleviate the traffic flow as you go into as you're driving north along Little Road there. Uh have we done a specific coordination With that property He's not
asking about the turn lanes off a little.
The intercon your site plan is showing I realize you probably did it because the code requires, but You're showing an interc interconnect From your project to the north to the school. And I think Mr. Chanel's question is Is that gonna interfere with the drop off and pick up for the school.
I don't believe it is. I don't see how it would.
Have you had any discussions with the school about Courting that interconnect.
Okay. It'd be important. There's also the fact that they have to close the you know, for security we close the gates. During the day. So that would be another issue that we'd have to keep that closed. I mean I'm all for interconnects. I think it's a great idea, but in some places they don't work. And I think in this case if y if you look at the aerial of this you can see where they have the traffic flow with the air with the arrows at the school.
Wouldn't they be wal I mean wouldn't they walk on the sidewalk? It's like literally next door.
Yeah, they'd walk for sure. But if there's an interconnect, you know, like some parents don't want to wait in that long line. So they'll come into the apartment complex, they'll park over there somewhere, the kids will walk. That don't live there. We've had this issue before at other places. Just want to prevent that.
So so we're specifically talking about that pedestrian access? No.
Vehicular interconnect.
At the northwest corner, sir.
I think
what that era was.
There you go. Yeah, that's a good one. Right
there, yeah.
So so that was put in there be because of typical you know
Yeah. So are you suggesting that we take that out? Well I yeah,
I don't think Mr. Chanel almost suggesting you take it out. I think his question was had you coordinated at all with the school to make sure it wasn't interfering with their drop off and pickup.
I have not specifically coordinated that with the school, but I can do that. And see what their preference is operationally and
whether
we want to make a change there.
And I'll get
with you two
afterwards and we can't. Give her my email and we can coordinate that too.
We know you probably only added it because the code required it.
Any other questions? And honestly, when you think about the functionality, right? If you have some kids in in this in this residential area Do you really need a driveway through there? They're gonna walk to school or the parents gonna drop 'em off at a a walkthrough. So The purpose of that being a actual dry bile. I believe is unnecessary. Yeah.
Well The difficulty we have here is we don't You didn't seek an all I mean. You could have actually sought an alt stand or repariation to not do that interconnect just like you did to the east. You you part of your application said you weren't gonna interconnect to the east You apparently didn't do that to the north. So we don't
I didn't realise it was gonna be an issue, honestly, but But if it it's a concern we can go back and And see what their preference would be.
I guess we'll figure out if it's
an issue.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Well, I mean they in theory could um Seek an a a variation at the time of site plan approval. Um
But the the problem is this is a binding concept plan.
That binding concept plan is showing That interconnect.
problematic to then remove it at the time of site plan approval. Okay. So unless it's addressed today.
I mean in theory the applicant could Ask for an L D C var is L D C variation to include That Not interconnecting to the north two, but I I haven't heard whether he wants to do that or not. Maybe we need to see what the public comment is first. Yeah.
One alternative to to keep flexibility, we could put a gate there. And if we decide that we want that to go away, we just Close the gate lock the gate.
Well let's let's listen to the c public comment and then we can come back up and couple questions for you. Take some notes if I
might Have you looked at the Flooding on the property?
So what we would do is we're gonna be designing the SWIFT MUD requirements, okay, that will address uh the retention of the water that that comes on our property. And then properly uh treat it and and dispose of it.
Has staff made you aware of the Timber Oaks Basin of Special Concern.
I'm aware to the north and to the east there's a a low lying area. Okay.
So this site lies in a basin the counties designated this area as a basin of special concern. And the Stormwater requirements are much more stringent than that required by the water management district. In fact they more closely mirror the DOT's requirements. But I wanted to note out note that In the Memorandum it indicates the sites located in flood zone X. which
FEMA would say is not a flood zone, but if you look at the Swift Mud floodplain map viewer, Swift Mud has literally a third of this property, especially down in the northeast corner and up along Little Road designated as floodplains. So my concern here is, is that I don't want to exacerbate the flooding problems already experienced by the neighborhood and I can tell you that the school next door's been flooded ever since the hurricane. There's still got water over
there. So that would be a concern for me.
So my mitigation on that, and there is a uh like you said, there is a small area to the northeast that is technically Wetlands. We would have to mitigate that. But But the uh the the uh the idea with that center pond is to collect any runoff that occurs on our property So that it does not affect the adjacent properties.
I understand that. What I'm getting at is I'm not sure you're aware of the extent of the floodplain on the property because the FEMA maps are not necessarily accurate. That's the Swift Mud map. That big yellow splotch. That's your sight.
There's a sub substantive amount of floodplain and there is a flooding problem in the area and the counties recognized that particular stormwater basin as an area of concern. What I'm not seeing in your binding concept plan and I David I bring this up in the discussion of binding concept plan. in that I'm not sure The amount of stormwater shown on that plan is going to be even remotely close enough to deal with
the floodplain mitigation that's gonna be required. and then the additional drainage requirement to meet the to meet the criteria for the basin of special concern. So we're gonna end up with a concept plan That Or a final plan that may not exactly resemble this quote binding concept plan.
That and I expressed a similar concern when we had the tall timbers M P U D the same thing when we talked about the binding concept plan and that I didn't think there was a likelihood that the plan was actually gonna get developed like that due to the wetland issues on that project. And I had the same issue here.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to let Mr. Pitos or Mr. Ingle address that issue. I mean, I'm not sure if you're I don't know to what extent there is a condition that allows Some deviations from what's on the binding concept plan. I don't know if it's broad enough that if they needed to put a much bigger pond for example, that took out all the townhomes. Well, I don't know if that's enough of a
deviation that's
a good idea.
By by way of example, in the northeast corner of the project, there's a substantive amount of mapped floodplain. Which means they're gonna have to elevate those structures up above the flood elevation and they're gonna be filled and then they're gonna have to mitigate for that flood lost floodplain volume. And they're gonna have to provide all the additional stormwater, so we're not going to end up with What we see on this plan. It's not something that I think is a slight
variation. My concern is that it is a major variation.
And I'm not sure how it's a good idea. If it's enough of a deviation, I think the condition requires it to go come back to the Planning Commissioner Oakley. I just don't know, you know, for example, if they lost two townhome units, if If that's enough of a deviation that
That's something I'm gonna have to defer to staff on to see whether they they that's enough
And that'll give you an idea of the stormwater retention requirement just to deal with the Timber Oak Basin of special concern, let
Has staff looked at Hindu or our stormwater department looked at whether This pond is of sufficient size to comply with basin of special Concern standards.
I mean I see a condition that says that there is a condition thirty four that says that If it's an abeyance of special concern that they shall comply with those standards. Whether this binding concept plan is sufficient to do that, I I can't answer. That's a staff question.
But it doesn't sound like the applicant. understood that that was an issue in this particular location.
I mean well I guess we could also ask the applicant, do you know whether this pond is adequate to comply with Based on special concern standards.
We would have to do more analysis to to quantify and address Mr. Moody's concern.
If hypothetically it was the pawn was insufficient to comply with those standards, what would you remove from this plan?
We would to his point we would have to increase the amount of retention area. And It it may be that we lose uh uh one or two buildings in that corner. And and leave that unaltered. That could be a solution, right? Because now I'm not altering that part of
my I the way I'm I it it might and I understand The issue here for me is that we have a quote binding concept plan. And So I'm concerned that that we may not get what we're being
presented. The condition there's a condition that deals with the Extent to which It's binding. It does allow staff to approve some deviations as long as the substantive intent of the plan is achieved. That's why I said I'm gonna defer to staff. If they lost two townhomes, if that's enough of a deviation The that it would require it to come back to the Planning Commission and the Board. I
This is this is one of those issues where the condition reads basically the staff gets to call it as they see it. So I'm gonna let staff answer that question. Okay.
Mr. Chairman Mariano. Uh Nictaros Pito's Playing Development and Economic Growth.
It would not be. Uh the loss of two buildings would not necessarily force a substantial modification to the MPUD.
Terry, at what level would it force a substantial modification?
I I think if they're changing the product type. by moving away from town homes to say You know, recover the building type by Putting apartments on there. Theoretically. Um that would be considered a substantial modification. Understood.
What if they lost some of the commercial? Would that be substantial?
Uh I don't think so because it would be a reduction in intensity.
What if they lost all the commercial?
Then it would because we're talking about a the comprehensive plan on the comprehensive plan side it would be a plan development which requires a mix of uses. So then we would be talking about a much bigger. Bigger project. Review.
Does that answer your question, Mr. Moody? Yeah. anybody else. The only thing I want to caution the Planning Commission is you were shown some architectural rendering for this project. Those are not binding on the applicant. I want to be clear that you all understand that. What is binding subject to the limitations we just talked about is the binding concept plant, not the architectural reasons.
Okay.
All right, thank you. And uh I'll have an opportunity to come back up and answer questions, so You might wanna take some notes when they're c come come up at the speak. Thank you.
All right, do you have your list? I do. Mr. Chairman the first person I have on the list is Alan Rose.
Alan, welcome. If you give your name and address, please. Yes, good afternoon.
Alan Rose, [address removed]. I have presentation for the committee. You'd like to
submit it?
Yes, sir.
Before we do that, before you vote on it, what exactly are you asking us to look at?
This is a petition. To deny this results. But petition by who? by the Golden Acres community and surrounding S surrounding homeowners. I have a hundred signatures.
Is that what you're submitting to us?
Okay.
Have a motion and a second for the discussion. All in favor? Signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Thank you. All right, welcome. Thank you. Thank you.
So we as a community are objecting to the rezoning of parcel ID number 13-25-16-0040-00000151521. Currently zone D R. To uh new zoning M PUD with thirty-four thousand four hundred and fifty-two square feet of commercial plus twenty-three two-story townhomes. Every prop every property abutting this property. About
in this parcel. On the south side is part of Golden Acres. With strict land covenants. And all other uh properties budding this property are all zoned ER. A developer is p is uh petitioning to rezone this to hide uh I I know it's MPUD, but it's still at the that's that parcel I consider it to be a high density commercial. The last one that was approved that everybody noticed was approved was reduced from C2 to C one. We don't have a problem with that
going to C one. C2 there was a problem, and I was willing to go to the next step because it is we do have land covenants and we we can proceed with that after what I found out at the la at the Board of County Commissioners. If we fail with this and it proceeds on. it becomes a civil matter and we have to s sue. Now my question is do we sue The county for changing the zoning, or do we sue the developer? Anyway, that's beyond the point. Uh Jasmine. From Lake View. West, three miles. There are zero high density
commercial properties. All residential and one pharmacy. And that one's gonna close. Little Road from Grove Street.
To Star Trail another three miles, there are zero high density commercial. Properties. One doctor office serving the community. Several residential and agricultural owners A school. a veterinary and a church. This developer is looking to bring death and carnage to our community, just like already exists on Little Road between Grove South to King Haley Boulevard. Just pull police records to see
this. Most recently, two weeks ago, last uh on a Thursday, two dead and multiple car accidents. All at the same time. But it happens regularly from Grove. South Grove uh South. Grove North is nothing like that. You put a development like this in here, and you're gonna bring a lot of carnage to our neighborhood. And we and you're gonna also cause us to lose a lot of value in our properties. Um
So Uh just I've submitted signatures, property owners throughout the neighborhood. Wanted you to know we strongly object to this. Also, what's not been mentioned, I know different water subjects have been mentioned, this is also over an impaired water basin. Similar to that. Go to DP and find out what happens when a developer wants to develop over an impaired water d water basin. Um then He has not maintained this property well at all. Every week. We
have Kids riding their dirt bikes and different things, different usages. Everybody's playing at playground out there, but it's killing our gopher gopher tortoises. There are shells for gopher tortoises you'll see because they've been hit because somebody has not maintained access to their property properly. And um That's basically a motor speedway going on there regularly. So we went over the C one of the C two. That that property that was rezoned is a C one and that's a lot better than the C two. Had
we gone C two, I would
Sure. He I want you to make sure you understand something. I'm looking at the conditions of approval for this MQD. And it's only allowing C one uses.
Okay.
I did you were you aware of that or no?
What the thing is you see his buildings, that's like he says there's gonna be no access to the east through the back. Yet I guarantee you, after he's settled in, you're gonna see that access road go through to Hilltop. And they're gonna dump in from Little Road and dump out on Hilltop. Not in this plan. I know he's agreed to certain stipulations. But I also know he's gonna have that and he's gonna need that because he's gonna have real problem on Little Road. And that's what I have for you. We we strongly object to this re rezoning.
And you're not going to be able to do I'm gonna lose uh my property value, I'm gonna go f probably from seven hundred thousand to five hundred thousand. There are million dollar homesteads right around this abutting this property. You know what c what that's gonna do to a million dollar homestead now he's got people looking in the our homestead owners are gonna have people looking in their back windows. Sir where's your home at? I'm on [address removed]. And I hear I hear the hear the motor st motor sports complex going on over at his place all the time.
What In your petition you talk about High density commercial. What's your What's your perception of high density commercial? What does that mean to you? We don't have a zoning category like that in the county. I understood you didn't seem to have an objection with C one uses over C two uses, but what do you mean by the high density?
The high density is gonna bring a lot more commercial traffic into our community. When you do C one it's gonna be a mild diversion and it's not gonna be that dense. You do C two and you're gonna have
So so your your issues the difference between C two uses and C one uses
And I see the the way he's developing this, that commercial part, is going to dump a dramatic amount of traffic into our neighborhood and we don't have that. We already have too much traffic as it is when not our roads aren't built to handle this additional traffic that's gonna happen.
Excuse me, sir.
Yes. Let me ask
the
question.
The commercial part of it. Would you be objecting to the commercial portion of
this project? From what I what I see right now, yes. Because of his eye his intentions. Wait a minute.
I'm confused because you just said Five minutes ago, that if it was C one you wouldn't object.
So now you're saying
you would object.
Yeah, that was the other property. And that's where we were I would we were we've been good with that going to C one from the C2.
So are you saying C one wouldn't be acceptable on the
C one would be acceptable as long as there's it's not going to be dumping into our
neighborhood. But there's no proposal to connect to your neighborhood. And actually, weren't they asking for a variation not to have to
connect? They're actually not they're seeking to not connect to the new. I understand that. And then
six months to a year after he's completed, who's gonna come in and ask for a variance?
I mean the same owner does own that easement that connects to Hilltop, but
Well to be clear, if he's gonna live by this binding concept plan, it's not showing any connection to the east. Okay.
And you'll also see I I've I've given you also a copy of the land covenants. that are in there to our to our neighborhood. And Just consider that. Are you
suggesting that this property is bound by your private deed restriction?
I have to really re research that property a little bit more s little bit further, but I do believe the connecting properties are all are all under that code. And this is what I learned on the last time
and this time So do you have the complete Set of covenants for golden acres and I'll tell you why I'm asking the question.
Many, many years ago. Twenty plus years ago. I worked for the developer that did the Walgreens at the northwest corner at Jasmine and Little. And at the time One of the issues were the covenants over golden acres. And To make a long story short, we ended up in a suit for quiet title to have the commercial deed restriction lifted.
But these covenants would now be more than David, more than thirty years old and have most likely expired. Uh no.
Unless they've
been renewed. Do you know if they've been renewed?
Well that's what it says. Except it says thirty-five years expires and then ther every ten years thereafter without objection it renews.
I Yeah, I think there there is there's some requirements in a MARTA that you do have to renew deed restrictions after a period of time, but I don't really want to be rendering legal opinions on the enforceability of a private deed restriction. I mean I They need to consult their own private attorney about whether those private use restrictions are enforceable on this property or not. I'm just asking him what he's asserting. Are you Are you asserting that? This property that the that's subject to this MPD is restricted to something Less
intense under your pri your private restrictions.
He's saying it's gonna be C one. You're you're admitting C one. C one as we stand, we sh should be acceptable. But it it's gonna be on that border and you know If we agree if you if you agree and pass this I'm gonna request that you change Hilltop Drive to a one-way from Grove to Jasmine to keep that traffic out of my
neighborhood. David, if I can answer the question.
I think that's the assertion he's trying to make. Whether they're enforceable or not I have no idea.
Yeah, it also ca uh it also prohibited.
And that would have came up in the last case we heard in December of the four parcels to the south. Yeah.
As Planning Commission yet knows, zoning and private deeds restrictions are two different things. I mean so Is nothing preventing you from zoning something in a way that may be inconsistent with the private deed restrictions. I I mean it's a factor you could probably take into account, but I'm not even clear. That's why I asked the question, are they asserting that it's inconsistent with the private deed restrictions or not. It is.
And it
is
also inconsistent with the surrounding neighborhood as we sit right now. It is not close to anything surrounding neighbor neighborhood.
I'm not asking whether you think it is compatible. I am asking you whether you think it is a A violation of your private deed restriction?
Yes.
Okay. And I
think that's been in the position of
I guess we'll let the applicant respond to that.
According to County Commissioners with the uh legal team next to them when I when I posed the last time uh I have went to the county commissioners and legal says if it's approved it then becomes a civil matter and we have to per pursue it
I agree that it is a civil matter. I I just want to know what your position is so we can have the applicant respond to it.
Yes. Okay. But but for what it's worth regarding the the par portion that connects between this parcel and Hilltop Drive, it's not part of this application and it doesn't show on the con binding concept plan. Oh so it's So which is again it's a binding concept plan. So so that would be a substantial if they wanted to interconnect, that would be a substantial modification, that binding concept plan.
So as as of now there's no connection that's been applied for that's connects to Hilltop Drive.
Sure. So I'm speaking to the zoning portion of this discussion. I'll probably ask the county attorney for some help in clarifying here. Well we're looking at the zoning. We don't get to consider your allegations or your your your allegations regarding the developer's intent. If you can come up here and state Facts. And you can support those facts, we can take those facts into consideration in making a decision.
But the law requires us to make the decision based on the facts. I can't make it on some speculation. So I'm gonna ask you to I know you're suspicious. But Your suspicions. aren't going to sway the decision we make.
Okay. Understood. But the community as a whole. Does not want to see this happen. The surrounding neighboring properties, not one wants to see this happen. And you have the signatures to verify that. So he's bringing something to you that is in total disregard to the neighboring communities. Thank you.
Thank you.
Mr. Chairman I have on the list is Robert Chair Jerry.
Uh my name is Robert Jarrell, [address removed]. My property is directly south. Of where this is going. What I am thoroughly and utterly concerned about here is that my property floods now. Okay? I talked to Swift Mud yesterday. My donkey's pasture, my horse's pasture is at fifteen point two feet. I've lived there, I've lived in this community for fifty-one years. I've been in Golden Acre since nineteen ninety-nine. I
am extremely, extremely bothered by this plan. You're gonna put two story townhouses above my property. Looking down, I paid $675,000 for this in 2007. Do you think my what you can figure out what my house is worth now? Do you think this is going to hurt my house value? Nobody will want to buy my house with this community right next to me. I bought it specifically because I had another house in Tanglewood East at the corner of Tanglewood Drive in Sweet Bay,
and I had miniature donkeys and horses, and my Animals were getting harassed. People were trying to feed them and trying to so I bought this property so it limited the exposure of my animals. We rescue horses, we have a rescue home home uh rehoming site for horses, and we have three miniature donkeys I've had for 24 years. And I am extremely bothered by this. as you guys can quite imagine. And my neighbors are all bothered by this. The c the people The
I'm sorry, I'm this is emotional for me because this is gonna cost me and my neighbors dearly. It's gonna diminish my value of my house. It's gonna change my whole quality of life. And I'm gonna tell you this right now. I spoke to some neighbors here today, and almost all my neighbors that are butting up to this property are gonna have to sell, including myself, because I don't want to live next to this. I live in an agricultural community. That's why I have horses, that's why I have donkeys, that's why I have goats, that's why I have dogs, that's why I have cats. And we live there because I live
in a park. I have hawks that come down. I have everything that you could want in a park. It's golden acres, guys. I've lived in this community for 51 years. I'm an active part of this community, and I'm not happy that this is even being considered because this is ER. We didn't buy the none of us bought this property thinking, oh We're gonna have a gigantic development next to us with two story buildings looking down on my property. Nobody thought this. And I know you guys, listen, my dad worked for Pinellas County Zoning for twenty years. I
know how hard it is for you guys to do what you're doing. And we do appreciate it. But please reach down deep and put yourself in our position. You guys got a hundred signatures. When's the last time get a hundred signatures for anything? The whole neighborhood is objecting to this. I'm gonna give you guys an example. The the owner, the property owner, won't even block his property off. Right now, FWC has told me two days ago that they have a permit to remove the gopher that to mitigate the gopher uh uh protected gopher turtles,
right? We're finding dead gopher turtles everywhere because they won't shut they won't shut their property down. And it's our m if you guys went out there, I implore you, go out to this property and look at it. There are six-foot ruts. People are taking four-wheel drive trucks, everything you can imagine out there, and they're killing the turtles. There's 11 or 12 turtle holes out there that we know of.
Please excuse me, I'm sorry, but I'm just this is really, really frustrating. Okay
Robert Robert, your your time is expanding.
Robert, let's see if any anybody has any questions for you.
I'm sorry.
Anybody?
Can I just say one thing? My property floods. My property floods now.
Where are you located on this?
I'm on I'm right. I'm directly south. I'm [address removed]. Okay.
That's my donkey's pasture that butts up against this property. Right. I will tell you guys right now, if you look at this map. You see where it comes out the Jasmine Boulevard? I've been there for 17 years. Seven occasions it flooded so badly that the water went through Jasmine Boulevard and connected to the lake and pond on the other side of Jasmine. It was in a flowing river. That's how bad the flooding is right now. During during hurricane, usually we get the flooding late July, early January, late
July and August. This year we had it start then. It didn't even end until After the storms. I literally and the only way I think they happened is the you guys were talking about the mitigation up in uh timber pines. I think they're pumping that and it brought down it.
Robert, uh you're way over your time. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I have to give other people time. I got it, I got it. Can I just ask one more question? Robert, we have one one question.
Sure.
Oh yeah. Um I understand you're opposed to the project. I'm just gonna ask you is there any any amount of buffering that this project could put on the surface. Sure,
put up a twenty foot solid concrete block wall so I don't have to look at it. Or fifteen foot. You can think about the just think about this right now. Well just imagine this. I have a solid a park. There's no light there. Think about the light pollution. Think about the fifty to hundred cars going in and out every day. Think about the two stories of people twenty-five feet or whatever looking into my property. That road that they're talking about that may happen, that's my property line. It's gonna go right down my property lane, guys. I mean
I had a quick question too.
So the the flooding that you experienced is is it there on the uh west side of your property, kind of where the pasture is? Yes. Okay.
Yes, my neighbor and I both experienced flooding. Right this year it was three and a half months of flooding.
The mapper that we're we're looking at, which is a separate mapper for uh Swift Mud shows that That area of concern that extends that uh Mr. Moody mentioned before the
Moody hit it on the head.
Yeah, that it that extends to that property also extends to the south there through the west part of your property as well as your neighbors. It's so
bad I have a four foot uh agricultural fence, the whole bottom rust it out.
So
that's how bad it is.
But likely that flooding is just because that's the that's a natural feature of the land, it's not necessarily because
it's fifteen point two feet. Yeah. That's why. But think about this. When you build that, you're going to have to build up for the floodplain. Correct? Yeah. It's gonna get worse.
That that's my concern too with with uh
I'm sorry guys. Please excuse me, I'm just emotional about this. Thank you very much. I appreciate your comment.
Thank you very much, Robert.
Okay.
Mr. Chairman I have the l on the list is Tyler Sanders. All right. Tyler, welcome.
Hi. Give
your name and
address, Tyler.
Tyler Sanders, uh [address removed]. I have the property that's in the back north um east corner, right where he's right there.
Okay.
So I can reiterate I I understand Mr. Moody, you want facts? My property flooded that whole back corner. Right now, I appreciate the developer. We went to the developers meeting last year. And he was adamant that this is going to enhance our values. Right now My house sits up. It's literally on hilltop.
These properties on the back corner are gonna be two stories. I appreciate they took it from three down to two. But that's still gonna be looking in my backyard, my pool. Right now I have nothing. Like I mentioned to the developer at the meeting we went to last year. If you were gonna put seven one acre houses back there, there's nothing we could say. We're all zone A E. One acre minimum. This is to maximize his profit. I
thought it was very rich for the developer to mention at the meeting last year that this is going to enhance our values. I see I don't have the facts. I see no no possible way how this will enhance our value. Right now I hear the traffic from Little Road, which is bad enough. If you spend some time out there on any evening, you can hear the motorcycles from probably at least eighty to a hundred on Little Road. What am I gonna hear now with twenty-three more units, two cars per
unit? Plus the retail area. totally changes the whole dynamics of why I bought that house six years ago. I bought that property 2.7 acres because it was AE. I've had goats, I've had pigs, I've had chickens. It's a farmland. This totally substantially changes the whole dynamics for all these properties around it. I've mentioned to the developer. Put one put eight, seven, eight. The state homes back here. Nothing we can
do. Wor it is what it is. That's what it's zoned for today. To change that zoning substantially changes why we bought into this community. We see it everywhere around Pasco County. We don't want to see it in this particular neighborhood. Little Road is is a mess as it is. It's just getting more and more traffic, more and more accidents. I hear 'em from my house all the time. Sirens. All hours of the night. It's already turning into a res into a
uh Playing development area with multiple you know, we're adding houses to the left on Down a little road, to the right on a little road. They're adding houses. Nowhere are they adding a uh a planned development with um two and three Um um structures, f houses, uh townhomes. And again, I s I back up my whole back property line is gonna be right on the property of what he's proposing
to do. Th Ron mentioned twenty foot wall. I don't think a twenty foot wall is going to alleviate my concern. Literally they will be looking in because they're going to raise it up. They're gonna be looking in my property. That flooded, I can show you on the map after the hurricanes where my where the flood water came from and how much it came up. That's all Cypress had. I asked the developer, the engineer at the meeting about their flood mitigation, and he assures us all They gotta follow the laws and it's gonna be
all mitigated. It's still gonna push water. The water from from and I understand they gotta mitigate and may have to make the pond bigger if that's if that's what you you you all deem uh necessary. It's still gonna impact my property flooding The way that just the way the natural features are of that land and you look at where the water flows today. And how it flies today is He can't mitigate, Disciple said. It all floods in that whole back corner right now. So you raise it up. It's
gonna go on my property. It has to go on my property. Okay. Thank you.
Yes. Um you mentioned that you attended the neighborhood meeting How many of your neighbors were at the neighborhood meeting?
Probably about the same number that was here, or maybe fifteen.
Take account.
Okay. Your general consensus that you all were opposed to this rezoning? Oh absolutely.
Absolutely.
Okay. Staff needs to be prepared as to why this ended up on our Consent agenda, I need to understand that. But not now. Be prepared to address that issue. Go ahead. That was my only question, sir. Okay. Anybody else?
If not, not then thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Okay. Mr. Chairman the next person I have on the list I I don't know the last name but first name Jeff.
I saw you back there waving your hand.
Yeah, I'm sorry. Uh Trevor Hill, it's [address removed]. Um This is gonna touch all of my property. All of it. And my son does go to that school. Every time it rains. I have a uh Twenty five hundred pickup truck. It's wet. Where's your property? It's [address removed]. It's uh
It's uh it's wide there. It's eight it's long. And it's gonna impact the whole thing. That water is gonna come. I mean it floods now. We go up there all the time. My sons and I, we we walk out there, we do look at the turtles and things, whatever have you, but it's marshland. And that traffic. When I take my Sunday school in the morning at at eight twenty, it goes all the way up to Jasmine. the whole I mean, up the whole side. Good luck getting in and out. He's gonna put that road through. And when that road goes
through, my boy's bedroom window is gonna have car lights going through it, because that's where it is. It's it's crazy. I
It it w it's gonna completely kill the value of my home. I saved for, you know, fifteen years to get in Golden Acres. I left Largo, Florida.
I came to Golden Acres to be safe. The people are are gonna be coming in out of here. It's crazy. I'm gonna this this if this starts building, I'm not gonna sleep for two years. Because when they were remodeling my son's school, it shook the walls of my house. It's gonna destroy my property value. I can't afford to move anywhere else. I retired from Budweiser 25 years. And I'm I'm home now with my son and this is gonna kill me. You know, he's ten years old. Pardon
me, but Is boy.
Mm-hmm. He
wakes up in the morning, he goes out front. He sees a tree.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
when the lady is looking down from the balcony and sees 'em.
Appreciate that.
Okay. You know what I mean? But like I said, the school is gonna be a huge issue because that water goes into that parking lot. I mean it's the every time it rains. Not just every so often. And we have to pay, we have uh Rent all power. Pumping it out.
Yeah, I know they've always had a f flooding problem at that school. So
I'm strongly opposed to it. So
it's
gonna crush me.
What we have on the screen right now is the floodplain um map from Swift Land O' Lakes.
That
was there. Yeah, that was the map that um Commissioner Moody was referring to. And
then when they raised up that property and put those houses in, it's gonna come into us. I'm right across from from these guys here and it's gonna I mean it's gonna kill me it's gonna kill me. I'm it's I just I didn't move to you know when these when we're emptying these dumpsters at four o'clock in the morning from these from these restaurants and you know whatever else is gonna put in there. When do we sleep? You know, I it's not right. It's a neighborhood. Put eight houses in there. Make it part of Gold Makers. Welcome
to new people. This is gonna bring Garbage. Terrible. It's gonna completely deflate my property. I'm gonna lose and I will sell. I think we're all gonna sell. Which is terrible.
Well i does anybody have any questions?
I mean I don't think they can do enough to keep the water out of there. He said I I do frankwood over there. If I you know have a ten year old boy inquisitive and we're always over there and when it rains it's wet. Very wet. So good luck.
Yeah, I'm familiar with that area pretty much. All right, great. Thank you very much, Dwayne.
Mr. Chair, the next person on my list and the last person on the list is Tammy White.
Welcome, Tammy. Thank you. Hey,
Charlie. I'm Tammy White. I live at [address removed].
I moved there. Thirty four years ago this April, when Little Road was two lanes, still covered in oak trees.
And trying to keep our community the same and safe, and it's not. We f I live on a lake. All that water that comes into our communities, everything all connects. I'm fortunate. I'm the highest property on my lake. But I nearly flooded a few years ago.
My neighbors across the lake flooded. When they build these new communities, they raise them. Same thing happened down on Anclote. They raise the properties, so all the older properties all around them, where does the water go? It goes to the older properties and they flood. We already have issues with traffic on Hilltop Drive. I live between Hil Little and Yellow Lake. Between my house, the two houses on either side, and the house across the street,
the majority of the wrecks that happened happened in that corner. The added Traffic is not gonna help. I still have to fix my fence from the last time somebody went through my fence. Three years ago a woman went through my fence, took sixty feet out. And law enforcement didn't do anything about it. Like they mentioned, the traffic on Little Road I can hear it from my house too. I hear the sirens all the time.
Two people killed. Just a couple weeks ago, there was always wrecks on Little and Grove. And you're putting in all these new homes on Little South uh Massachusetts, we don't have the infrastructure. We don't have law enforcement that can
Ticket these people that can watch out and keep people from speeding.
When we're a victim We're the one that has to prove things. people that run into our property and do property damage They know what they can do to get away with it and we're the ones that are stuck suffering. I was sixty years old myself three years ago putting in, replacing A fence, sixty feet of fence and a gate. By myself, because I'm a widow now. That person destroyed a fence
that my husband built to protect us. And now I have to keep the gates closed on my property.
the through traffic is going through and the people going through. You put the speed bumps in Yeah, there was a lot of people in our neighborhood that bitched and complained about it. But you know what? It stopped the through traffic. It saved our wildlife. And we had less wrecks on our road. I do appreciate the county putting in a new wildlife sign right in by my driveway. I love it. But that's not gonna stop the people that go through our neighborhood.
I have to pick up trash every single day. One of my neighbors at least once a month he drives his four wheeler from Yellow Lake to Hilltop Drive, cleaning up trash on either side of the road so that our neighborhood that used to be pristine looks a little bit better. This isn't gonna be good for our neighborhood. It's really not.
Well thank you very much. Is uh anybody has questions? No. Very good. Thank you very much.
Anybody here that hasn't had a chance to speak that would like to speak? With something relevant that we haven't heard before. Yeah.
Have you been sworn? Yes. Okay.
Pastor Jen Kerouf [address removed]. And just um the thing that I would like to raise um in response, I know uh Mr. Moody has requested that there's facts. As it results to the comprehensive plan. And I'm looking at 303.7 application review. And based on the applicant's submission today, the conversation with regards
to the changes that potentially would need to be made, it seems to me that potentially the applicant would need to go back to um essentially the drawing board uh based on
They really didn't have complete information and there was a lot of issues with regards to application that they submitted. So based on three oh three point seven I would seems that this application is not complete. Um in addition to that with regards to building the um properties up and the issues that the neighbors have kind of cited We've seen that I believe everywhere
in the county and when I Um listen to the workshop meeting that was done this week, I believe. That was one of the main concerns that Commissioner Mariano Starkey and Oakley had. Um so it seems as if this would be an issue that they discussed and maybe this is not the good time for it. It's also not consistent with the neighboring area. Thank you.
Okay.
Okay, would you like to come forward please? Just please bring something new.
You don't mind? One at a time.
State your name and address.
My name is Ashley Whitforth, [address removed].
Just one at a time.
Um so I live on Golden Acres. Um I am a firm believer, because I am a land developer myself, um, that if these residents did not want this being built, they should have bought the property. However, It is not zone commercial at the time. So, why did these residents have any concern that something like this would be built on that type of property? Everyone here today has can said their concerns, very valid concerns. So, my concerns of living on Hilltop Drive is
when you do switch the zoning. Even with the changes that will make these residents happy with what you put on there, there is going to be an issue with Little Road. I believe on this type of property you are required two exits. I believe they're asking for a revision just to do one exit so that doesn't hurt Hilltop Drive. However, this person that owns the property has that easement already. So after
this all gets developed and everyone is semi-happy with what happens, there's gonna be a problem. And when the property owner comes back and you guys require them to fix this, the only option is for them to use that easement out to Hilltop Drive. And then Hilltop Drive becomes an even bigger issue and affects way more people that are here today. We have a speeding issue. I believe Golden Acres is a bird sanctuary. I mean, a lot of animals get hit on
that road, and we already have a traffic issue that we did try resolving with speed humps that were temporary. Yeah. So I just believe if you give them a little on this property, once it gets developed, after the fact we're going to have to do some more revisions on flooding on the exit to Little Road. And what are you gonna do to help this property? You're gonna have to do more stuff, and then it's gonna be harder for us
as residents to go back and say, I told you not to do it. So from the start, before it gets developed, that's why we have so many signatures. They foresee more stuff coming, and we're trying to get it stopped before there are any other problems.
All right. Thank you. Any questions? No. Thank you very much.
Okay. Did you want to speak?
Do you have your name and address?
Hi, I'm Charlene Grant, [address removed]. That's my daughter Ashley, so we have some of the same opinions. Mr. Gray, I believe your family has been here for a long time. Long time. As I have. I grew up in Pasco County. Little road. It's a mess. Um everybody's talked about the school. Um right now they have to do a wait back closer to Jasmine to go and pull into the school right now. Right. that has to be addressed before
anything else is developed. I have a question. Um are the two properties, this one and the one that was previously done C1? Are those people connected at all? I know it's two different names. names. Just seems awfully convenient that this is happening.
Not to my knowledge, yeah. Yeah.
I have a little bit of concern about that because here they saw C1 got That property got changed to C one. It is on the corner. Commercial. Yes. Uh but we are worried about the traffic on Hilltop. Children.
Car accidents. Wildlife. We say no.
Right.
Keep it residential. One acre parcels.
Please.
Thank you.
Thank you very much for coming. Yeah. Yeah, I I'm very familiar with that area. I I I think uh my father built one of the first houses out there And uh We helped develop it uh originally. Well he divided up the land and And sold a lot most of that land. So I'm very familiar with uh Golden Acres and and the zoning that they put in place there. So um Little Road didn't really exist at the time. It wasn't a little
road, it was now.
Yeah, is that actually a little road was more like a dirt road. Um from Massachusetts south
and
to the river and then north it's the pavement stopped at route right about where Tanglewood East is. So um Yeah, it's it's been a lot of been a lot of changes, that's for sure. Um Because I lived in that right in this particular vicinity uh for quite some for a number of years um after I returned from the military. Um Yeah, I'm I'm very familiar with how that whole Yeah.
Yeah. So um
You know, I think what we need to do though is follow the procedure and give the applicant an opportunity to come up and try to answer some of your concerns and uh Yeah, we'll listen to 'em and then we'll take everything into account and And as a group we'll make a decision. And uh Appreciate everybody coming today. Thank you. A lot of good Important things to say. Yeah, we appreciate you being here. So uh The applicant would like to come back up. Hope you made some notes.
Thank you for uh the opportunity to try to address some of the concerns. Um
Uh excuse me, just a minute before you go anywhere. Please don't embarrass yourself. And say stuff like that. 'Cause I didn't allow anybody to do that to you. So please don't do that. Doesn't hurt it doesn't help your case.
Okay,
go ahead. Okay. So Just allow me a few seconds to process. There's a lot of information here and uh
So One concern that I heard was Is there um is the owner to the south of this property A relative to the owner, to the n to the property in question. Is there a conspiracy here, etcetera? There is none. There's no relationship. uh the current owner to the owner to the cell. Okay. So let me put that one to bed. Okay. Number two. We heard concerns about A
road that would be put to the east along a a flag lot that the current owner owns okay
we can put the aerial or the side plan back up so that when you sneak the
aerial up if you don't mind what
he's talking about. Yeah
And And uh see this this area, maybe one of my my charts would show the plant.
Well it doesn't really well it's not a the Okay along that line to the oh but it does show the flag. Yeah to the east after that piece of go to the right with a cursor from there to the right. Go
right a little bit more. There you go. Click on that.
a road to the right there and that road is going to traverse along the rear of their properties. This owner is starting to approach some of the property owners and is willing to give that property to the adjacent owners is considering that. He has no intention to put a road from there to the east. Furthermore. That strip of land is not wide enough. to
be a legal road. How wide is that? Three feet. Twenty-five feet. There's not enough room to put in the the requisite swales, et cetera. The owner has no interest, zero interest. in developing that road there. So here I want Myth number two that I want to dispel. Okay? And he doesn't even care about it. He's willing to give it to you guys. Please, please address us up here. So I
just want to point that out. And thank you for uh the protocol.
So that was the cross axis to the to the east. He has no intention of doing anything with that. We did do a traffic study. The owner paid for traffic study. To show the effect of These few town homes in in the relative area in the grand scheme of things. It's nine point oh effect.
right hand turn lane so that you would not have a scenario of traffic
I've asked you in the audience I've asked you politely to be quiet. while somebody's speaking, like just like I did when somebody else was up here. So please Observe the rules. I hate to have anybody taken out.
So the owner's willing to put in that right hand turn lane to make sure that traffic flows. Egris, ingress and egress.
There was concern or debate about C one versus C two. This is C one. This is not high density commercial, as was alleged.
The concern about the two story duplex and the lady looking out onto the adjacent neighbor.
Excuse me, one second. I I know the officer's trying to get control of this a couple of people back here.
Yeah. I'm going.
Probably
best.
Glad you got your fame.
Let me just tell you in the audience that people that are courteous and still here that type of action does not help your cause no matter what you think.
You know, it never pays to be rude. So
Go ahead.
So one commentary was you know, about a two story structure looking into an adjacent property. If it stays the way it is and somebody puts a house in these existing breaks it up into existing parcels, You can still have two story homes. looking into an adjacent property. So the argument that, oh, uh they're they're gonna have a two-story home and it's gonna invade my privacy. uh I
believe doesn't hold water from that example. Furthermore, we do have plans for a pretty extensive buffer going around the entire perimeter and a fence So the concern that Those neighbors are going to interact with the farm animals or anything else or disturb the adjacent property owners. I don't think uh is legitimate because of the buffer that we're designing in. W what kind of a buffer are you talking about? Landscape with with a a six foot fence. I
believe whatever we put in the in in the plans.
But you'll be able to see through it. Pardon me? You will be able to see through it.
Depends what type of fence. If it's a a vinyl solid fence, y you won't see through it. And on top of uh a buffer of trees and bushes. Okay, go did you have a question, Jamie?
I saw I didn't see my I think if from I'm correct. I think the memo only says you'll provide what the Lens Development Code requires. Which I think in that case is a type B buffer. Is that correct? So you're not proposing anything above and beyond that?
That's what we're proposing. Uh but as you can see from the the the visuals, I think it's gonna be a pretty dense buffer.
Mm-hmm. Okay, but there's no commitment in here about the density of the buffer other than what the code requires.
So Uh fair fair statement, but that's no different than you put a a regular residential home looking onto an adjacent property. Right.
Yeah, and that my it wasn't a statement, it was a question. So that that's I I just wanted to clarify. Okay, continue.
So in any case, we w our intent is to have uh to to separate the privacy issue. Um And and we you know, we did have that meeting uh whenever it was about a year ago and we listened to these concerns. And this developer has the intent to try to Be neighborly about these things.
Um
I look at the wetland impact. And the um And I asked my staff member to to shoot me a little picture of the wetland and it's The the other map that Mr. Moody brought up That's a different map, but the wetland impact is is actually a very small. It just dips in one part and dips in the other by maybe five or ten percent of the area of the gross area.
That wasn't the concern, it was the floodplain.
I understand. I understand. Um
Furthermore, we we have the po possi and I've done this before to also use underground chambers. To further if if let's say the pond that we were depicting was insufficient We could also add underground chambers as stormwater retention under certain areas. So there are There are methods to address the flooding concern and keep it within the property. Okay. So And and and I would argue That
once we add these ponds and stuff, it actually is gonna diminish what they're seeing right now because The runoff is running off from the current state of the grades. and the way the water flows, where we're going to be managing that. To keep it on the property.
Let's see, let me pivot. Um
Since you didn't ask for extra time, I'm trying to give you as much time as I can to answer the questions, but I want to be Okay. I don't want
to um keep everybody here Okay. I'm I'm almost finished. Okay. Okay. I just just want to make sure I try to address Um all the concerns
Um Yeah, and then the concern about the covenant and the Golden Acre Covenants and those laws and regs, that's for that community. I I'm not sure how that would spill over into our our area. I don't believe that we're part of Golden Acres, so just a comment there. Um
You don't believe you are or do you aren't? I don't bel I don't believe we are. I I'd have to go to confirm this, but I did not I don't are I d I I don't know if I am or not. Okay.
So so one other concern we heard was how that piece of property right now there are vagrants, there are people running all around there and so on and so forth. Well, you know, that just like any other piece of property anywhere. So that's the chaos you have right now. Just because it's undeveloped, right? It's just a piece of land. Well, by us developing it under this condition, it is a controlled environment. And many of these uh Thoughts that were boisted. that aspect would go away as well. So
in summary I think there there's a lot of consternation out there, but I I think as a pr Demonstrated. a lot of it is ill founded and a little hyperbole. It's my opinion. This is
a
factual opinion. So with that said, thank you for your attention.
Yes. Thank you. Uh any questions? Parcels or from up here? No. Okay. Um, Is there anybody that would like to ask this man a question? He's got his hand raised.
Sure. What question would you like to ask?
Do you have anything to uh to add to what you said, sir?
Yeah, I think. One thing, uh whether it's relevant or not, it's a fact. The Wall the Walgreens is uh
Yeah. [address removed]. I just received notification uh that they're closing, so that's gonna be a vacant building. So Anyways, um We were told at that meeting, and it's interesting how these things change, um and and I appreciate you know they were trying to alleviate our concerns of the privacy. last year, now it's actually re re regressed. I was told last year The wall between your property and adjacent properties, designers said eight feet. Is that solid wood or concrete? Will the trees be also
be placed? So those are my questions I asked. The answer was um I I first I heard 30 feet, then I heard 50 feet. So I don't really know what's going behind my property. And even though they've they've shown some drawings, like, well, we could we're gonna do some landscaping. What does that mean for me? We're gonna have a wall. We're gonna put up a fence. Well it could be wood, it could be vinyl. It could be can you see through that? And then the other comment that he he mentioned was well yes you could build a house back here and they could see you on my property. Absolutely.
One family. R as it stands right now, I have five families that'll be looking to my property. That's a big difference. Thank you.
Thank you. Okay. Uh I
think we've heard all the details. Um Just technically first of all I need staff to come up and address my question about How this ended up on our consent agenda. Um But technically since you allowed the public to speak again, you're gonna have to allow the applicant to rebut that again. That's the danger with you doing this. I'm just letting you know. I'm not gonna let anybody else so I understand that, but every time you let the public speak again, you're gonna have to let the applicant speak. Would the applicant
like to rebut what was just said?
About the fence. About about the presentation at the meeting.
I actually wanted to ask him about that anyway.
S so honestly, I I don't recall us making a statement about a thirty foot fence. Okay, I don't know where that came from.
Thirty feet distance off the property line. Yeah. Charles Davis.
Okay, go ahead. I don't specifically recall that. Okay. You were at that meeting. Yeah. Okay. I w I will get with the owner and see if if You know, what he wants to do in regards to offense.
Thank you. Yeah, that was gonna be my question, is w uh what you would be able to commit to regarding buffering. Um on this besides what's already in there, which is the type B buffer that's required by code.
Okay. Well I think we have plenty of information here to make a decision. Okay. I still would like staff to address my question.
Yes. Mr. Chairman. Um the Planning Development Economic Growth Department routinely puts uh its uh contact information in public notices. And if the public wants to understand a project, they can contact the department. And also uh convey their opinions, their interests, so on and so forth about the project. If they don't do that, We don't have a record of opposition. to suggest to us to put it on the r uh regular agenda
versus the consent agenda. The project that was to the south of this property, the main concerns on that site had to deal with the intensity of the commercial use. To which we made sure that the property of the north was would be consistent with what was being approved at the corner, which was C One. So we had addressed that element of opposition that we had previously heard.
Terry, does the developer submit a summary of the neighborhood meeting?
It's traditionally yes, but it's not required.
Did they do that in this case?
Let me confer with staff.
Okay. Um Nothing was submitted. Nothing was submitted to us for regarding the neighborhood meeting.
Well At some point we may want to look at making that a mandatory requirement because I I don't know how we If fifteen people showed up at this neighborhood meeting Expressed opposition. There's to be some way for staff to know that All this opposite I mean. uh it seems like there's a disconnect that you all have no way of knowing that there was all this opposition Even though they all showed up at the neighborhood meeting.
Yeah.
The neighborhood meeting is the developers meeting. It's not a
but it showed up on our consent agenda, which typically applies where there's No neighborhood opposition. And I understand you didn't know because nobody contacted you directly. But what I d the testimony was that the neighbors all showed up at the neighborhood meeting and expressed as opposition If that report had been submit if the re summary of the neighborhood meeting had been submitted to staff You would have known there was neighborhood opposition. So I'm saying we may want to re look at that. that.
We'll take a look at that.
You actually the staff actually gets a summary of the neighborhood meeting. Otherwise w how would you even know I think the concerns that were raised, the the fact that there was opposition, I mean I understand that it's the it's the the
But it seems like staff has a right to know what occurred at it. Do you not disagree? I mean uh
In in the cases where it's required, yes. I agree with you. But we'll we'll take a look at what the issue is with
How do you know they actually I'm not saying they didn't have a meeting. But how do you know they actually had the meeting if you don't have some kind of minutes or
I mean is staff notified of the meetings?
Yeah. So so in this case, neighborhood meeting isn't required. What hold on. One for million planning development economic growth. Neighborhood meetings required in the rural areas and in the villages passing the hills, in which case it wasn't required, but in the instance that it is required. It is submitted to staff as a requirement of the L D C Those those meeting notes.
So you're saying for this project it was not required, but they conducted one anyway.
Correct.
Did they
do that on their own or did staff request them to do it or
They did it on their own. That's why we had no record of it.
Okay.
All right. Anything else, David? Yeah, that answers my question. Okay.
I got a question for staff. Um in relation to this parcel, and I I've heard several references to Um The commercial on the front edge being similar to the commercial that was done to the south, is that correct?
But it looks like on the master plan that they go another couple hundred feet further back into the parcel. So they're not just commercial adjacent to the commercial to the south. They're also adjacent to what remained as a state residential or ER. Is that correct?
Who did I? Yeah, it looks like to some extent.
That's that's my biggest concern. I guess w where I'm getting with going with that is uh I think the argument was made before and the argument's always on commercial that It it's the proximity to the road in the front, but what's the acceptable depth? I mean could they come in and ask for six hundred feet of depth of commercial And it looks like to the south they really only got two hundred and fifty or three hundred feet of commercial. So uh from where I'm sitting it it almost looks like if they can make that argument to be compatible with the commercial to the south if they are only
that depth which is two hundred and fifty, two hundred and sixty feet. But they're asking for much more.
Mm-hmm.
We're we're confirming at the moment.
Yeah, a question for the developer on that. No. No.
You have to be called up and we don't have a question for you, so
I was just looking at the master plan and it looks like those parcel lines it looks like it goes much deeper than Just the two parcels to the south.
Showed six sixty two from the rear property line to the rear of the commercial building.
Trying to was the measurement thing here.
I just wanted to make sure I wasn't reading the master plan incorrectly.
Uh I can.
Okay. You're only just looking at the master plan.
Yeah, Terry, if you guys just look at the master plan, I mean it looks like there's three parcels to the south.
Yes, it's
three parcel itself. Okay. Yeah, I mean I personally I have a concern with that and the compatibility there between that what remains as a state residential and that depth of that commercial. And then also my my other thing and and I really I I have not heard any compelling argument as far as how multifamily townhomes, duplexes, triplexes are compatible with the estate residential that's gonna remain all the way around it.
I mean I I I can see and I can understand the the commercial frontage for or the commercial argument for the frontage Right immediately adjacent to Little Road. But going beyond What they got to the south for the commercial and then that multifamily residential townhomes wedged in between. I mean we've already heard that there's there's drainage concerns, floodplain concerns. I mean a lot of that stuff's gonna be taken care of in the permitting. Um I mean they're gonna they're gonna base in the special concern, they're gonna be held to those standards. Um all that stuff, but I I uh a compatibility
issue, I I just don't see how those townhomes are compatible with the estate residential all the way around it.
Uh in terms of the um The dis the depth of the commercial property, what we're looking at uh by the third parcel. is the parking lot. uh area of the proposed development. Yeah, that's what that's what would be aligned with that third parcel, which if you compare it You look due north, the non residential use to the north also has a similar depth. So that would be the the depth comparison along Little Road. So
we're saying at the back of the parking lot of that school. Correct.
Right. And then in terms of the the land use selection in terms of uh town homes. This is the nonetheless the urban concentration area along a made an arterial roadway such as Little Road and it's a typical Transition to move from higher intensity land use like commercial even at C one uh and step it down to uh single family detached, which is the ER zoning district.
And the density level only increases by 1.9 dwelling units per gross acre. Given the quantity of townhomes on the site, it's twenty-three.
So the the density increase is not
Out of out of scale with the surrounding one dwelling unit per gross acre.
Any other questions?
No, I d yeah, I I I agree with some of the concerns too. The uh Mr. Moody brought up uh you know the concern about the the floodplain, even though this is all upland area, um, you know, I have s some concerns that that really wasn't looked at in terms of um how that might affect the properties to the south and um you know if there's any fill that's brought in to build up these townhomes um and there's any kind of um uh I guess any any way that that's
cutting off the flow to the south and and uh changing the flow of water that's that's naturally occurring there, that could present an issue to the uh adjoining properties. I also am concerned too that the applicant didn't um didn't seem to really address the the concerns of the neighborhood that well prior to this. It seems like there was a neighborhood meeting that happened but uh there wasn't many concerns that were really addressed. Uh I I guess we heard a little bit about buffering, but there wasn't a whole lot that was said
about specifics to that buffering. Um I I feel like that some of the people that had some concerns might have some uh might be a little bit better feeling about those concerns if uh some of the buffering was uh s more specific. Um So that's that's a It's kind of where I'm at on the on this whole thing. I think in general the the plan makes sense. To have commercial in the front and uh and some residential in the rear. I mean it's it you know, yes, it's this is not the gold makers of old and
and Little Road's a busy road, so commercial makes sense, they're adjacent a little but Um So the the overall idea um But just the execution of this I I have some concerns about.
Well in the interest in ti uh in the interest of time and for purposes of discussion I'd like to hear a motion to deny. I like to make a motion to deny.
Um I'll make the motion to deny the comprehensive plan amendment, which then I guess would
David, if I do that, then does that automatically nullify the zoning or basically the
the the zoning can't be approved without the compliant amendment. And I would also argue to you that you have You and the board are far more discretion to deny a compliant amendment to legislative decision, so I'm not sure. You don't really need to get into the zoning criteria or any of the other th reasons. I mean y you can state your reasons for denial if you want to, but Really any rational basis would suffice to to deny a plan amendment. So
Oh I move to deny item PC five. Oh are you moving? I had made a motion. Yeah you can make the motion. C pass 2323.
Okay, do we have a second? I'll second.
Any further discussion of the motion?
Just a question as far as if it is denied the board denies it the applicant could come back at a later date and maybe propose something different?
Yes. Yeah.
Okay.
If the uh however there is there are rules on if the board takes formal action to deny it. I think there's a year. Am I saying that right, Terry? Is that I think there's a year you have to wait before you can reapply for the same
before
the same, yes. Yes. If they wanted to apply for something different. If it's something completely different, I think
that probably doesn't apply. Right. Okay. So we have a motion and a second. Any further discussion of the motion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like, sign. All right. So the application is denied. Thank you.
Anybody have any questions?
I just have a clarification question. Liam Devine, Planning Development, Economic Growth. Um David, are you saying there does not need to be an action on PC six?
Uh if if If the Planning Commissioner should be denied.
Recommend approval of the zoning. the zoning would be inconsistent with the existing complaint. So
I mean if you'd want if you if if if it's staff's pre I guess I'll ask staff, do you want a formal recommendation of denial on the zoning two as being inconsistent with the call plan, we can have them take that action.
How would you In a due process perspective, we can advance the comprehensive plan with the recommendation from the LPA. The M P U D stays behind?
Well, are you I guess I'll I'll uh staff. I it Planning Commission recommends denial of the plan Do you intend to still move forward with a recommendation of approval?
Can I make a suggestion? Would it be appropriate to continue it to a date uncertain and see how the comprehensive plan plays out with the board? And then they can always bring it back to Planning Commission for a vote?
I I f personally I'd I wouldn't prefer that. I'd like to get it decided today. I think just an abundance of caution, let's go ahead
and make
a motion
Recommend denial of item PC six, the companion rezoning. Based on it being inconsistent with our recommendation of denial for the comprehensive plan amendment.
A second. Second. Further discussion. All in favor, signify by aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed, like sign. Okay.
Does that answer your question, Liam? Okay.
Makes his job easier. Okay, so for those of you who who are here for this particular item. That request has been denied.
However, I want to be clear
is
it doesn't stop the applicant. From moving trying to move it forward to the Board of County Commissioners.
Okay, next one. Appreciate everybody being here.
Except for a couple of the guys.
We'd probably have left.
Mr. Chair, I believe our next item on the list is PC nine.
Quick recess. Quick recess. Thank
you. Yeah, let's take a five minute recess.