Conditional Use Amendment Request (Consent) – Spanish Lakes Land Company LLC/ Spanish Lakes CU – Conditional Use Amendment to Remove Height Limitation for Previously Approved Multifamily Dwellings in a C-2 General Commercial District – West Central Pasco County – Approximately 150 Feet North of State Road 52, East of Deerbook Boulevard – Containing Approximately 18.65 Acres File Number PDE25-CU05
What the county recorded
Staff recommendation
Approval with Conditions
DispositionApproved
Approved of Staff’s recommendation with the stated access with a final approval of the County Engineer with his professional opinion and no other consideration, allowing the extra height to four stories, 360 unit max, allowing for on Shady Hills Road a left turn in and a right turn lane decel lane coming in on Shady Hills Road and the condition as read by Ms. Wilhite.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Board of County Commissioners, Feb 25, 2025
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Board of County Commissioners, Feb 25, 2025
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
What was said
Machine transcription of 1h 22m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 80% of 445 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
And I have a second. All in favor? Aye. Thank you. Now we're on to our consent agenda.
Okay, we'll we'll take up P thirty seven and if someone has has wants wants to object, we'll take it off.
I'm gonna be pulling it.
Okay. All right. So P thirty-seven is gonna be pulled. Let's go to P thirty eight.
C thirty eight, we have proof of publication in the Tampa Bay Times, January eighth, twenty twenty five, supplemented by an affidavit of certified mailings and site postings.
Item P38 is PDE 257799. This is a zoning amendment. It's a substantial modification to the Pristine Lake Preserve MPUD by Walker Development Company. It's a rezoning request to substantially modify the Pristine Lake Preserve MPUD to amend the Pristine Lake Preserve MPUD usage. And to allow for the development of a 7,500 square foot office building. This comes to you with a recommendation to approve the MPDB zoning request. and the attached resulting conditions
of approval.
Okay, is there anybody here who wishes to object to P thirty eight? Yeah.
Is there anyone online who wishes to object to P thirty eight?
No, we have only one person online and or two people online for a different matter.
Okay, so we will
This
is your opportunity. Yeah.
Then you
need to come up to the mic. Come on up to the mic then. Well well hang on. I'll pull this off like a hang on on one second and then you can come up when we call P thirty eight. All right, so now we're on to P thirty nine.
I'm gonna pull that one as well.
Okay, P thirty nine is off the consent.
That's the end of consent.
That's the end of consent. So we have no consent. Okay, so let's go back to P thirty-seven.
Okay.
I thought we already did. Uh but we did not. Okay. Um We have proof of publication, Tampa Bay Times, January eighth, and supplemented by affidavit of uh certified mailings and site postings.
Item P37 is PDE 25CU05. This is a conditional use amendment, the name of Spanish Lakes Land Company LLC slash Spanish Lakes CU. It's a conditional use amendment to remove height limitation for previously approved multifamily dwellings in a C2 general commercial district. It's in west central Pasco County. It's approximately 150 feet north of State Road 52, east of Dearburg Boulevard, containing approximately 18.65 acres. Um before I begin
the presentation, I uh would like to submit ex parte forms that were received with regard to Spanish Lakes, I believe, for each of the commissioners.
I don't I don't Think I had one. Does it say that if I had one?
Yes.
I did?
Yes, we had. Okay. And two twenty four. Um and then
Commissioner Mariano also had um for two twenty four and today. So there's quite a bit.
Um additionally, there's an ex parte communication that was sent by uh Ms. Jennifer Kerouac uh to each of the commissioners that can be that was submitted to the clerk's office as well.
Okay. Madam Chair, just for further uh acknowledgement, I've spoken with a couple of residents in the neighborhood as well.
Okay.
Go ahead with the presentation, please.
Uh as I noted, this is proposals for a conditional use amendment uh in a C two general commercial district, which is in the MU mixed use future land use category. Uh the applicant is requesting a conditional use amendment to remove the height limitation for previously approved multifamily dwellings in a C two. General Commercial District consistent with the underlying C2 zoning district, which has no height limitation in the urban service area where this property is located. The existing conditional use permit caps height at about 35 feet.
This is the general location. Uh it is at the northeast corner, if you will. of uh stateway fifty two and the interchang at the northeast part of the interchange of Sero fifty two and the Sun Coast Parkway. It's actually Uh just to the east. of the alignment of Vision Road Deerbrook uh Boulevard?
Which is the outline that you see in black and white coming up the center of the of the screen.
Um Shady Hills is to the east and north of the subject property, and uh the subject property does not quite abut State Road 52 to the south, although it does abut a stub which connects to the road uh to which goes to the west into the subdivision along State Sun Coast Highway. Uh the connection at Dearbrook Boulevard does connect to Stairway fifty two. It's unsignalized. It is the continuation of the Vision Road that passes through
Angeline or the s uh Bexley properties that ultimately connect south to uh Sun Lake Boulevard through Angeline. This is the subject property uh area. You can see the stub out to the south and west of the property.
This is illustrating the zoning uh for the area. For the future land use and the zoning for the area here?
So the subject property is currently vacant on approximately 18.65 acres. On February eighth, two thousand five, the Board of County Commissioners approved petition number CU O501 for multifamily dwellings in a C2 General Commercial District with conditions that limit the height of all buildings to be 35 feet in height. Access to the property is from Shady Hills, a county-maintained collector road with approximately 66 feet of right-of-way, and Deerbrook Boulevard, which is the which was the stub connection at the east or excuse me, at the south and west of the property. And
that is a county-maintained residential road as it moves east-west, but uh a county collector as it moves north south, Vision Road. with approximately a hundred feet of a hundred five feet of right-of-way. Um Since there was no approved route study and the alignment of roadway A Which is the Deerbrook Boulevard connection that I pointed out. on the highway vision plan is only conceptual. The applicant met with the Planning Development Economic Growth Department. as well as the Transportation Engineering Department and the County Attorney's Office on several
occasions to work on an alignment for roadway A. The Deerbrook Boulevard, North South, Vision Road, which provides connectivity at 052, and the existing intersection with the Deerbrook Boulevard and connectivity at Shady Hills Road, which would go along the west edge and uh east to Shady Hills, and allows for the development of the property for multifamily dwellings as approved by the BCC. in 2005. So in 2005 that Vision Road connection that was crossing the property was not there. The Vision Road came about much later
in about 2020 when the Angeline project, Project Arthur, was moving through the area.
This is the way the Vision Road was conceptually mapped on the property, showing the extent of what right-of-way would be required of the Vision Road connection. This would be the Deer Brook Boulevard, north-south to Shady Hills on the north end. This graphic illustrates option A, which was discussed between the various departments and the applicant, to realign the vision road along the western edge of the subject
property, go a little bit further north and turn it to the east to connect to Shady Hills.
This graphic also illustrates the extent of the right-of-way and the type of acquisitions that would be required in terms of dedications for the subject property and potential acquisitions from neighboring wetlands to the west.
This is option B, which is slightly different option. And then um since uh the publication of the agenda there was an update to the um maximum building height proposed for this project. Uh initially they were the applicant was requesting to remove the height restriction that the board had imposed in two thousand five, that thirty five feet and simply go with the urban service area. Uh policy which allows
for no height regulation in the urban service area. However, the applicant has uh voluntarily capped their building height at four stories. Uh so that is the update. regarding Um the height limitation. And with that, the Planning Development Economic Growth Department recommends approval with conditions of the requested zoning amendment. To the Board of County Commissioners. Later.
Excuse me, ma'am. Terry, um y what you just mentioned, is that the revision that was in revision from the originally published memo? Yes, and I believe
those were submitted this morning.
Okay, so on my uh agenda here, is that revision on here? I'm looking at it on on online. Just curious. Mm-hmm. Um and then um Board members, are there any questions of Terry before we get the applicant to speak? Commissioner Mariano.
I had not been Um done any meeting on this until just half an hour ago. Um
I don't think I had one, so I
so which is v very unusual, especially with what's going on. Um so I'm gonna tell you the discussions I had to what's going on, to the changes I've suggested, and I think I'll let the applicant talk to them. Terry's already been informed to it. So What I Didn't like is just the Uh the addition of the additional height. In looking at the road, I didn't like the way the roads were gonna be constructed. Uh if you saw the three options that were on there. each road was set up differently. One was seven point nine million,
one was eight point two million, the other was ten point seven million. Um a lot of money for us to go spend. This vision road situation, this comes up next to a mobile station, Dunkin' Donuts, as it comes up. It hits a neighborhood that goes to the left. And then this road vision road goes to the right. which will then connect out to Shady Hills Boulevard. Um what I don't like about the uh sections for A and B is they were both gonna hit close to four acres of wetlands,
which I didn't see any need to go do that. What it also does, both of 'em go up to the north. One of them actually takes out a house, which increases all your right away costs and everything. Um Very substantially. When I look at what I want to see and we we talk about connectivity, I think our code's gonna do it and Terry might be able to speak to it more. The main thing with this development is it should connect from that intersection all the way out to Shady Hills Road on a free flow. I don't think it's gonna be a heavily used
report.
Uh can you exp expand the map, Terry? Maybe put a different picture up there.
Okay. So if you look on the left side of the screen where it says Oak Ramble Drive, the State Road 52. So from that point Uh, if it goes diagonally out to Shady Hills Road. That's an important connection. That will take a lot of people that may use this the retail here to be able to get the shadios and back and for those that want to come down to the south they can cut through. It's what we want to see. I don't think it warrants a vision road, and I'll say why. You've got at Shady Hills Road to the right at the end of that road is an int
uh a signalized intersection. In my opinion, that's where the vision road should be coming. where it's all uniform so you don't have to do anything. We don't want to put another light down there at that vision road where it's proposed to be, but we do want to promote the access. So I'm gonna make suggestions that we Let the developer build a road, doesn't have to be the sixty foot wide, doesn't be a collector, but it's gotta be a free flowing, no gates to impede it, where people can go from shady hills to that intersection and and hit that retail
part and go through the neighborhood. Well with it just like a regular neighborhood thing would be at other areas. Um Al also on Shady Hills Road, I want to make sure that we do have enough so you have a left turn in and a right turn in so that you have turn lanes coming in so it doesn't slow down the traffic because it's still many years before we actually improve Shady Hills Road. Um
As far as the height restriction going f to four stories. What we're gonna get is gonna save a lot of money. improve a connection point. And even though we're already locked into the units that are gonna go in and whatever numbers they get to, if we get that connection I can I'll I'll listen to public comment, but Taking that height restriction going from three three stories to four stories. they'll end up with a better product because they'll have elevators in, but it'll also make the connection, which
if we don't do this, they could s have their own connections, but they could also gate it off and you wouldn't have the connection either. So I could spend ten million dollars of taxpayer money, or seven million, um, destroying wetlands, or let development come in and make it work where we want it to work just with that code the way it sits.
Well Um I have some questions on taking away the status of that road because I hear that this is a vision road that's going south and We need We need our grid. I've not I gotta listen to the effect of that because the grid is important, otherwise you get very crowded roads like you have on Shady Hills. So Um I just wanna hear I don't think I had a meeting on
this, but maybe I did. Um but I I need to hear about the importance of that connector road. before I will em to draw it
staff or
or Well let's let Barbara do her presentation unless anyone else has any questions for Terry now. I may have some after Barbara speaks, but
Commissioner Oakley. eighty six thirty seven Grand Boulevard for the applicant. So jumping to the the issues discussed. We do have a condition that David and I worked on to deal with making sure that what the commissioner is saying that happens internally to our project happens. So people can come to and from Shady Hills to do a book drive, then get to the Dunkin' Donuts, the car wash through our project. So we have a condition that David has agreed to. that
we can put into the record. Now with regard to the Vision Road We're not proposing and this is ultimately your decision, but we're not proposing that we take away what we what we've put together, which is thirty feet of our property will go towards that vision road. So that you have of ultimate choices, right? So you have a choice now that we're gonna develop to provide the connectivity and if someday in the future the county wants to to do that vision road they'll have our part of the right-of-way. And I understand from David
is that because it's in the comp plan we can change the alignment, but you can't remove it without a comp plan amendment. So what I would ask today is that we leave it like it is with our property Making accommodation for a vision road um pursuant to the alignment that we worked out with the county engineer and and a bunch of staff people. and then add a condition that talks about what our project will do. As far as the connectivity. And then when you update your vision roadmap in the future, and was just sitting with staff
and they were talking about updating it again on when I was in a different project Then you all can talk about this vision road, particularly whether you're going to leave it on or take it off. But we'll accommodate it if you leave it on. So it can be a subsequent conversation where you can really hear from staff when you're doing the vision road map generally. So that's what I would suggest, so that we can move this project forward and come up with our solution. Then you all can talk more globally about whether you want that vision road on there or not for the future. So
that's my suggestion, if that's acceptable. The other thing is yes, I I did check with Steve Henry and the turn lanes. We didn't do access management m with this because all we were doing was amending an existing conditional use that allows for apartments and just changing the height from three to four stories so we can have an elevator product, which is a a better product as as Commissioner Mariano has mentioned. But he but we will be having a turn lane. We'll have a turn lane requirement when we come through site plan, a right turn lane off
of Shady Hills and a left turn lane in. Because obviously the capacity of that major road You don't want anybody sitting in traffic waiting for our traffic to turn left or our traffic slowing down to turn right. So we will have a turn lane requirement at site plan.
Okay. You know, we are gonna see this site plan. Well, are we gonna see it or staff gonna see it?
Staff will see it, but I did mention to you that but we'll sit with with you with the site plan. Um you wanna talk about neighborhood parks
and and just for transparency here to the board members, because I did talk to Barbara this morning, um, on this and just that We typically waive the open space requirement for apartments and I'm I'm getting reluctant to waive the whole thing and I wanna find a happy medium but I think we need more green space with our apartment. So I mentioned that to Barbara and um And
we will
work
on that with you. And staff.
Okay. So is that the extent of your presentation?
It is. Let me see what the public comment is and and I'd be glad to talk some more. Yes.
Barbara, could you just read the condition you're proposing for the record? Absolutely.
Prior to final building inspection for the certificate of occupancy for the first residential building within the project, the project shall be required to convey a public access easement over and across an internal access way to ensure automobile traffic, bicycles, and pedestrians can access and utilize the internal access way within the project to and from Shady Hills Road and to and from Deerbrook Boulevard. And the project shall not be gated.
Um I'm looking at number four. Findings of fact there's an existing multi-use path along the north side of fifty-two. Deerbrook. So this all stays?
Yeah, we have a condition that instead of the required five foot sidewalk on Shady Hills, it's eight feet. Um we also have a condition that says that our Our our buildings will not front um Shady Hills. We won't have any parking up to Shady Hills. We'll have our ponds and then then we'll have our buildings. So our b buildings will be set back from Shady Hills Road.
I don't know why. Someone's doing that. I wanna see the parking in the middle. With the buildings around it personally, but
Pond. Building parking.
Um Okay, well we'll take public comment and then we'll come back to you
probably. First person I have signed up, I and I apologize. Robert is it Cargo? Carlo. Carlo?
Good afternoon. I'm Robert Carlo, address [address removed] Um I've been sworn in. And um I'm the H Way president. And we've got to do it. Of uh Deerfield Lakes, uh Pasco. Okay. So we've been watching the the the growth in the area and There th the biggest concerns really are the tr flow traffic. Um that area, that commercial area, does
get heavily used at Dunkin' Donuts and the Circle K. And right now there tends to be uh traffic flow through our community to cut the light at Shady Hills. Um so much so and I'm not gonna name the school, but they tell their parents, oh, if you're late, just cut through our community and you can get to school on time. the big concern is that the Vision Road project doesn't extend south right now and it's a right turn only when
you exit from Deerbrook And if those residents want to get out of the apartments. they're gonna either cut through our neighborhood or have to go all the way past uh Sun Coast and actually make a U-turn. They're gonna tend to go through our community. And that's been the biggest concern. And I'm not sure how the order of building and construction development goes in this project. I I'm not opposed to the height. I you know I I am opposed in a sense. We are
opposed that it's more people. It goes from a hundred forty unit to three hundred units. It's a lot of cars. It's a lot of people. Um I appreciate the fact that with a four story it's gonna be a nicer looking community. It's gonna have the elevators. That's all great. It's just how do you deal with that much vehicle traffic in that area when it's a right turn only and is Vision Road gonna be uh built first or are the apartments gonna be built first? If the apartments are gonna be f built first all
that traffic is gonna flow through our neighborhood. So those are the the biggest concerns that we're that our community is concerned about right now and hopefully we can you know debate this a little bit better and understand the flow of traffic as it pertains to these different roads that are considered for construction for this apartment complex. Um You know, th there's been a history of our community um that I want to go through,
and I know Mr. Mariano talked to our prior president Bill Hux. We had an identity on 52. We had a monument. Today's cost it's probably a $50,000 monument that we had to take down at our own cost. So we've constantly been giving things up. With the Vision Road, we also have to give up land. So we keep giving and giving and giving, and we want to make sure that. The considerations include our community. And that
we understand the traffic flow and how our community is going to be affected, and if things are going to, you know, get out of control with people cutting through our neighborhood. Um Thank you.
Thank you. Um do we have someone else to say
that's the only one signed up for this item.
Can we pull up a map? Um look at that on the map.
Then proceed forward if you if you want to speak to the side.
If anyone else wants to speak to the side of excuse me, you cannot yell from back there. Come on up. But if anyone else wants to speak, um go ahead and get in the aisle here on P thirty seven.
Hi, uh Jessica Konoff. I live at do I have to give my address?
Yeah, you have to give your address, yeah.
Okay. Uh [address removed] Um in Deerfield.
Okay.
Yes, I was sworn in. Thank you,
ma'am.
Um so same concerns as the HUA president. Um the infrastructure is not where it needs to be to support um an additional uh housing community. We have Angeline going on in down 52. We also have a 55 and up community being built down Shady Hills Road. um which is going to bring in a substantial amount of traffic down
shady hills. Um and uh you know This h as he stated the um the height difference of just increasing it by five feet to allow you know, an additional story will substantially increase the the traffic coming through our neighborhood. Um you know It it's It's great that you know we have all of these people moving
to our wonderful county, but unfortunately we can't
Um You know, I think that's a good idea.
handle the the traffic. We have to think of the safety of the young kids that that play in the front yards or on the side the families walking with the kids and the dogs and you know people unfortunately they don't drive a safe speed all the time through the communities. It's sometimes treated like a raceway. People trying to get from point A to point B as fast as possible aren't always paying attention these days. Everybody's texting and driving. Um
and, you know With this projected plan. Either, you know, we're taking away part of our wetlands to create a a through street for the new community of apartments to get from their community to Shady Hills or you know when 52 was redone, they took away our ability to turn left out of our neighborhood. So now we can only turn right, go down two traffic lights, do a U-turn. Turn or go
out the back way to Shady Hills to turn left at the light. Um so these are major things that need to be thought about when uh thinking about this new project. Um so the height requirement does Play a big part of this. You can put in an elevator in a three story project. It is possible. Um So please just take all of these factors into account when thinking
about this um and you know Thank you for your time.
Thank you very much.
What just happened over there?
No pressure weight went out there, but
Okay, that was interesting. Okay. Hey. Hi. Uh Pastor Jen Kerwack [address removed] And I'm coming today. Um there were a couple of things that I noticed and Were were you here when we I already swore. I was sworn in. I didn't swear. Oh my gosh, I didn't say that. Only time you'll probably see me get red. Um I just wanted to come forward today. The concern about the height requirement, you know, and
and does present, I would say if I lived in Deerfield Lakes, that would be an issue for me because, you know, the potential of looking over into their neighborhood when folks bought in, it wasn't like that. Um the other thing that um you know the transportation is a serious concern. Um I echo and I won't go into um what the previous woman uh mentioned. The other thing that I noticed um so as far as um
providing and I might have lost my p the proof of publication Um Mmm, the affidavit of posting. I didn't see a quail ridge on here, and they do meet at the church. Um, and I spoke with um the folks that are with the Master Association and the folks with the um the regular association, not the villas, and I didn't see where they were on here and they did tell me that they weren't aware
that this was happening. I just don't see them and sometimes they have different names. But again, the main concern I echo is, you know, the issue with regards to the traffic that is going to increase on Shady Hills Road. Um it's a tight area putting three hundred even if it was one car per unit, which
I mean I have two cars. I don't know about anybody else but you know, the and one of the things that was in the presentation is that it would not increase the traffic flow. So I think that it seems as if We're utilizing things from two thousand five but we're also trying to bring in the things that are now in two thousand five. was not as busy in this area as it is now. And
I think we're all aware of that. And so I would just ask that you take into consideration the email that I had submitted, those points that I made there. Um as part of the record as well as my testimony today. I did submit pictures after that that showed there was n also no sign on Shady Hills Road. So even if Quail Ridge didn't receive a letter, they would not have known about the meeting unless they went to like the behind the mobile and Dunkin'
Donuts area there, um, because that's where the sign was posted. So I ask at a minimum that you, you know You know, continue maybe neighborhood meeting or something to that effect. Thank you very much. Thank you.
Is there anyone else wishing to speak? Do we have anyone online?
No ma'am.
Okay, I don't know what's going on with Commissioner Weightman over there. Is that about this is is that about this hearing?
Uh Barbara, yeah, I don't know what you want to do there.
And
I didn't even notice it a little inappropriate, isn't it?
Yeah. It is inappropriate.
We're gonna pause the meeting until y'all come back.
Okay. All right. So I wanted to emphasize the condition that Commissioner Mariano, you know, pointed out and then I read. That is the condition that provides for the connectivity that doesn't exist now from Deer Brook to Shady Hills without going through Deer Field Lakes. Right. So That is the importance of your interconnection and that that the board has a policy of and talks about all the time. Because now that traffic if they wanted to avoid the intersection of Shady Hills
and fifty two May go through Deerfield Lakes.
have a different alternative to that and it'd be more direct than going up through Deerfield Lakes. The other thing I'm not sure that the residents um Might realize that this property on is zone C two. Yes, it's approved for apartments and it's already that decision was made that it's appropriate for apartments, but C two is five times the traffic generator that they would see. So I think that's just important to understand. The regarding the concern regarding height
For the public. So what you're saying is a commercial use there drives more much more traffic than the public.
Generates five times the amount of traffic. Five times
the amount of traffic than an apartment complex.
Correct. The other thing regarding visual, obviously that's always a you know an issue and we always looked at that specifically. But in this case, the nearest home in Deerfield Lakes is three hundred nine hundred and thirty-three feet away, nine three three feet away. It's also in between this project and those those homes in Deerfield Lakes. There is a A very mature wetland area with high trees. So, and then to our north is C2 property with no height limitation. because it's in the n urban
service area and to our south is a C two property with no um height limitation. So just to give some context to, you know How the traffic goes today, how it could go under C2, what we're proposing with the condition that Commissioner Mariano worked with us on. Um I
I'm trying to understand that condition because what I what I haven't gotten here yet is the um the part of the vision network and how this uh relates to Angeline. And when we say Angeline, I'm gonna guess what we're talking about is that the Orsi property that is not part of Angeline. Or is it part of Angeline but you can't speak, um but he can speak. Uh the property to the south, isn't that the land that Is not owned by Metro?
Yes, I can I'll we'll pull up a map and just a second I'll draw the line for you.
I'm not going to work.
We are fine with what we worked out with staff on the Vision Road.
I think it it works well.
Can you explain to me what Jack was what he was saying because I didn't understand it. I don't know if you guys did
either. I think the question is, you know, why is this vision road here? Well, I know that's important. How did it come to be? The vision road used to be aligned coming up through the Bexley property. It was aligned to to the intersection. This vision road was aligned to the intersection to make a four-way intersection at 52 and the Dunkin' Donuts, whatever? No, and Shady Hills. Oh that your that's what your vision plum plan was. When Angeline came in.
It was decided that to not have the Vision Road make a four-lane intersection with 52 and Shady Hills. And staff agreed, and ultimately you all agreed, to realign it so it would go thr up through Deerbrook, which isn't you've heard staff you heard the the the public comment. It's not a intersection, doesn't have a light, it's only got a right in, right out. And and so obviously that would probably change if it became a full vision road. But that's just I think what Commissioner Mariano was
just referring to, which was how thought out was that. But what I'd like to do is talk about this project and have you all work on your vision roadmap when you the next update to it you can talk about what you feel about this vision row. But what we'd like to do is be able to come forward and offer our project, our solution, and ultimately, you know, provide a project that's going to provide that interconnectivity that gives more options of how people get around and even the Deerfield Lakes folks get around and how people Don't have to
go through their project to go from Deerford Deerbrook to Shady Hills, they can now come through our project. So that's kind of the explanation. Yeah. But I'd rather you you know, i the whole vision road is probably a a discussion when you talk about your vision roads.
Yeah. Okay. Um Thank you. Uh so is that Is that Deerfield? Intersect, I guess that's Deer is that Deerfield? Um Deer let me look here. Deerbrook Boulevard. Is that slated to become a uh At full intersection?
Uh you can see my own.
Because we can't we it'
it
I feel like we took away a full intersection unless someone can explain something to me. So differently.
The vision I'll explain the Vision Road Network in the area really quick. Um this is Stay Road 52 across the north end of the map here. Sun Coast Parkway is right here. What you see the red line coming down from south from Stay Road 52, this is Sun Lake Boulevard moving through Angeline. Right about this location in Angeline, uh connector Vision Connector Road A. Okay. veers to the west and moves through this portion of Project Arthur,
which were the seller retained properties when we were planning this project. Connector A, sorry, it's a battle with the mouse.
So we'll have another bridge over the wildlife corridor.
Okay. Thanks, thank you. Um so the connector A will come up this way all the way up to State Road fifty four. When Project Arthur State Row fifty two fifty two, I'm sorry, yes. Stay road fifty two. And when Project Arthur was planned, uh this segment of the Vision Road was Created and linked over to Shady Hills so that you could have this clean north-south all the way up to Shady Hills versus the line coming across the prop the uh the cellar's properties over here, Project
Arthur Sellers, um and connecting to Shady Hills at that point. So that's when this vision road came into existence at that time. Um
that is the vision road right now.
That is the vision road. And that's what's known as the Deerbrook uh connector.
Okay.
Madam Chairman Mariano. So keep in mind when when I The current vision road, the cost for right-of-way going that way. Is right now it's seven million dollars just about? I don't know why we want to spend seven million dollars. Secondly, I think that's right.
I'm just saying that just the right away to put the vision road where they want where they want to put it.
From fifty two to Shady Hills, correct?
I think
that's
a pretty important
road. Well, we're gonna get the road without spending a dime. I'd rather do that. that. I the other thing is from that road, that connector road A, that That should go to the light. I don't know why anybody would not say
the poly ship is sailed, I'm gonna guess. But I agree it should have gone to the light.
Either either way, so if it's gonna come up, you're gonna go through that little part and then you get into Shady Hills Road, and you're gonna drive all those people to try to get up Shady Hills Road and make the turn? So be it, where wherever it comes out. But no regardless, I can now build a road That'll connect through, make a better connection. As a matter of fact, the the folks at Deerfield, if they're coming across, is a very good thing. Whereas you right now said you gotta go down two lights, two U turn, come back over since the axe was cut off, you guys would actually benefit from this because now you can come down to that thing and you can cut all through and now
you can get the Shady Hills and take a right turn. You're at a light. You already But uh but I'm very familiar with the neighborhood. I mean you got a great neighborhood up there. But I think this might even help you with even the cut-through stuff with what goes on. Now here's the thing. They're approved from 2005. And at that time, those who want to get mad, we didn't have any apartments anywhere. Right? We
were
just looking for things to come in. And the C two we're trying to get commercials to go up and down and sometimes you need the heads to get with it but what was gonna come. They're gonna cap themselves at three sixty max. So it's gone down from what that number, and I don't think they would have got four thirty two anyway, but let's say they're steep keeping it the same by going vertical. If we put the turn lanes in on the road, it's going to make it a a better access to it. Um And again We need a lot of money and you can talk to our engineer Nick Juren about how much money we don't have. But
if I can take seven million dollars or ten million dollars out of our capital budget and not have to go invest into this road. I can do more things up there. Now I can actually look at the board to say, you know what, we gotta go look at these impact fee that this thing's gonna generate. And let's continue doing more projects up there like we're doing right now.
Smaller road. I I I'm just trying to understand what the seven million dollar savings is coming from.
You're right, 'cause now we don't have to build the road. But it's gonna be a
little
bit of a
Well if they come in they're building the road.
They're gonna build the road. This way. Yeah, and it's gonna be public access. There'll be a sidewalk on both sides. You're gonna connect where you wanna connect at the stub, all the way to your Shady Hills, you're gonna get the turn lines you want. So when you do expand the road later, you've got the capacity to do so as well.
Are they doing it an eight foot sidewalk on one of the sides?
Can I clarify what Barbara's proposing and she may want to come back up? Yeah, I heard thirty feet. I don't know that she's proposing an actual road. She's proposing that the drive aisles that the apartment complex would already have to build anyway. would be open to the public and that they would be connect Deer Brook to Shady Hills. I don't think that she's committing she's gonna build a vision road through the middle of her project. It's not in the middle,
right?
It the
project's right-of-way.
And ultimately that's why if you look at the different vision road alternatives, the vision road through the property, ultimately, obviously we wouldn't have a project, we're we're out of it and you're working with the property owner. And it's very, very it'd be you'd have to buy the right of way. So that's what would jack up your cost. Now what again what I what I you cannot as David has said you cannot change you cannot make a decision regarding that vision road today to change and say we don't want it. That is a conversation you need to have when you come back and are updating your vision road vision road map. So what you're
what I'm asking is The solution that we've come up with, we had the solution that we will accommodate 30 feet of that vision road if you ever want to do a vision road. If not, it will be green space if you never want to do a vision road, right? So And then you'll make that decision, you can have a conversation with all of your staff ready to talk about should there be Deer Footbrook extension on your Vision Road or shouldn't there be. Um but that's r you c David's like you can't make that decision today because you don't have a comp plan amendment before you updating your vision roadmap. So
what we're saying is Leave the thirty feet that we're dedicating. If you decide in the future to take that off your your vision roadmap, then it'll just be green space. Um And then we have the condition that I read in regarding the interconnectivity that we'll be able to travel through our project. No, it's not the same as your vision road. But the point is that people can travel through, like many of us do, to get from point A to point P, we travel through other development. That's your connectivity ordinance, and that's what we're proposing here. When we're proposing Your
connectivity ordinance just makes you connect, but what the County Attorney's Office and staff have been working with many of my clients is on is making sure that there's a condition that requires that public access easement. And so that's the condition we're writing here to ensure that pedestrians, bikes and traffic can throw flow through our project to get from Shady Hills Road to fifty two via Deerbrook and that's what we put together.
Madam Chairman
Mariano.
So David, help me with this because again, we just met right before this. I had never met with this project before, so I'm just trying to make something work if it's gonna work. I want to make sure that I don't need the huge vision road that we're gonna have. I'm g I wanna give up on that idea, though I know I gotta do one's uh amendment for that later on. But I want to have enough where they can put a road through that's gonna be free flow of traffic, sidewalks on both sides, so the people from the stub there can get the Shady Hills Road. So whether it be thirty feet, whatever the number is,
I need you to probably say what it's gotta be.
What Barbara's proposed I don't think Is consistent with what you're saying.
So what do I need to say that I want to see to make it happen?
Okay, well then we're gonna
go.
I'm not sure that they're offering this, okay, but what You would need it to say that it's a public that it's a He would have to establish the width and then it's a roadway. with no parking and sidewalks on both sides. I don't know if that's what Barbara's proposing, but th if that's what you're wanting is free flow. Then it couldn't have any parking. Along it. And it would need to have sidewalks on both sides, but uh again I don't think that that's that's not what the condition says. So but I'll
let Barbara comment because I don't think she's ever offered. No,
I I I didn't and we we specifically talked about the fact that it would you know, we'd have our we could have our parking. adjacent to that area where the free flow of traffic will go. So I wrote I mean you know I'm I write what we talk about and that's what I do. Um but that's certainly what we talked about was the fact that we could still have parking 'cause if not I don't Then you're saying we gotta take right of way out of this property and we're gonna have that same issue of what happens to the plan.
We can meet the connectivity ordinance and provide for the free flow of traffic through our project. The question is Are we allowed to park? and have the traffic come through our parking area or not. We're proposing to provide that fleet free flow of traffic with a public easement over it that allows the traffic to go through. But we're just saying allow it so we can configure our site, so we can go use our site. to allow that traffic to come through and if it's a parking area, you know, and there's parking for the different units and
that free flow of traffic going through. And yes, there'll be sidewalks, but it would be road, parking, sidewalks, because you have sidewalks amongst along the buildings. So the sidewalks would be there. It's just the issue like David's pointing out is would we be allowed to have to have parking?
So Barbara's correct the condition does require bike pad interconnectivity too. So there would a a bicycle or pedestrian would have to be able to get from Shady Hills Road to Deerbrook. It may not be a a ro along a a straight route, but that connec connectivity would have to exist.
I I is this vision road new? This this vision road connector road A. Is it new?
So Madam Chair, it was as Terry explained, it was added when we approved Angeline.
Okay. And that's before this project came in. So this project knew there was a vision
road on the project. No. We approved this project first requirements. Then we approved Angeline and put Division Road over their property, which they were not happy about.
Okay.
That's the reason why Staff was worked with them to try to realign the vision road. So that it wouldn't destroy their project.
Okay, I personally uh I'm okay with the parking on the road. Because I look at rangeland. Now we have to Tweak. what on street parking for collector or arterial roads look like, which is what this would be, right? Because we have people parking commercial vehicles on Rangeland, but stopped.
I don't think Barbara's proposing a collector road going through her project. She's proposing I want to be clear.
I'm okay with parking on the street. Okay. That's all I'm saying. We have it on rangeland, which is a major road.
David's point is correct. What you're getting is driving through a parking lot. Versus
Maintained by whom?
Maintained by the um apartment complex.
That's what your interconnectivity ordinance actually requires. Is that we provide interconnectivity through our developed project? That's what that's what your interconnectivity requires.
This is difficult because I believe this is an important connection, especially the Deerbrook.
She's proposing that those dry vials would be open to the public. And they would connect Deerbrook to Shady Hills. And that there would be sidewalks that connect Shady Hills to Deerbrook.
So it looks kinda looks like a road, but it isn't really a road. It's the to me
it's the functional commercial. It functions as a road.
Yeah. So And sometimes they have parking along them and sometimes they don't, but Bar Barber wants the ability to park along it too. So Do not in I would not view this as a typical county collector road.
Right. Is there are there you know we haven't seen a site plan So I are there apartments on both sides of this road? Because you're pretty close to the wetland on the right.
Yeah, I don't have the road the road R actually. It isn't laid out really n laid out.
Okay.
But I think it'll function To get vehicles and pedestrians to and from shady hills. And and Deerbrook. And that'll happen now. Um through our project. That's what your connectivity ordinance is. Is there a D cell
a D cell lane on Shady Hills to
turn into it? There will be a right turn D cell lane and a left turn in lane. So that whether you're turning left into the project, you're not sitting in the travel lane. And whether you're turning right, slowing down the turn light, you're not s to turn right, you're not slowing down the traffic on Shady Hills Road. And
um they said the access coming out of Deerbrook has changed. Um do we anticipate that that's gonna be a full service interchange?
Well that's that is the conversation when you guys discuss what you come in vision road below.
Yeah.
And that would
be the developer coming in below.
When you yeah, when you discuss your overall vision roadmap and that's a I think that's a discussion, your staff will be queued up to answer all those questions.
Madam Chairman Mariano is that Angeline is required to put in a light at that location. whenever whenever that road comes through. That's my recollection, but staff can tell me if I'm wrong.
Looking at the county engineer. Okay, well that's not relevant here for today. Okay. And so we're kind of trading height for a cut through kind of here today, in a way.
Well I'm not sure you're you're trading. Actually we've actually we've capped our density and capped the you know the ask was let's make it consistent with the urban service area. And we've capped it to four stories. We've capped the density to three to three sixty or three eighty, whatever my notes say there. Um So we're and you will not gate it. You cannot gate it. It's clearly cannot be gated.
Any other questions? Uh Commissioner Weightman.
Sure. Thank you. Uh Ms. Wyatt was it
So what's your so
Y'all aren't gonna build any piece of the r this road.
We are not going to build any piece of your vision road. We are going to provide right of way towards your vision road. If you ever decide, once you all meet and decide that you whether you want that vision road there or not, we are giving right of way towards that vision road.
So okay.
And who decides where that right of way goes? Who's gonna decide that?
Because right now we know you there's three options for how much right of way the county is going to receive. That's what we saw.
Right. That we went through three options with staff. At their request, show us three different ways that this could align. And so we went through three different ways it could align. We agreed on the alignment that we agreed on that's thirty feet of right away from this project. So
On this What's shown on this map? Is that the agreed alignment?
No. No. Oh. No, that's that's the alignment of the vision vision road that impacts their project.
So
that yeah that's a I can't see what you guys see.
Terry Terry had had a a
straight one to the traffic circle. Oh okay. They're looking at the same thing. Okay.
This this this stretch of road Or be a A pretty busy Section
used pretty regularly, I imagine.
So who who was discussing how the three pricing options for the road. And those came from staff?
Yes, it's in the agenda.
It's in your agenda packet. Yeah, we worked on that with the
I was okay.
But I understand, Commissioner Weightman, today the alignment that somebody drew through this person's property goes right through the middle of their property.
Yeah, so why is that is that a mistake, an accident? Well it came
after the fact.
Somebody drew a map, a line on a map. A staff person drew a line on a map and it ultimately was adopted into your vision road. But it does go right through this person's property. So Generally. That's not the easiest way. If you want to do condemnation, you can draw your lines wherever you want, but if you want to work with property owners and accommodate these types of roads, you usually don't put a road through the mill of their property. We've we've talked about that one that also down there, Bullock and Johnny Lane, does the same thing. It's the same thing we're trying to
Not to interrupt you, but Karbal, so the similar issues happened down south on forty one. At no fault to that property owner, the county arbitrarily decided to put a road through their property without their knowledge. This is another recent example of that. The entitlements are here. Because of that This makes it a bit more than a little bit.
Yeah. They ha they have the int what they can build But yet we're saying we're put a road and the uh the left and right hands aren't communicating with each other here. No fault. to the property owner on this. Wow. There's other bigger pieces of this picture that Trevor Wise we need to figure out. So I think we're all looking for what that answer is. Because they could go ahead and get to work and then we're out of a out of a road.
The conundrum that you describe is exactly why The County Attorney's Office and the County Engineer worked with the applicant on an alternate alignment for the Vision Road. That skirts the edge of their property, which does not destroy their ability to build this project.
Is that this one? Because we weren't being shown this one before. This is not an okay.
No, I what I was just gonna add to that is that even though the vision roads are shown, it's it's a point A to point B. How it meanders through the property can always be a subject of of conversation. So it's not necessarily we can say it's through the middle, but that's correct. That's just a line on a map when these places. I don't know when this was adopted, but again those are negotiations that we have and we we discuss those. How do you get from A to B? That's the important piece.
Why is this going over someone's house? Is that a mistake?
Like do these pro exactly to the chair's point, do these folks know that there's a potential road going right through their living room right now?
So this This this I also asked this question in a planning commission. We required the applicant to notify all these property owners that are a uh that are impacted by this new alignment. So they've all been noticed, Joseph. Isn't that right, Barbara?
Yes, they were all noticed and we made a note notice that the we were relining the vision road. I I would say when that interesting enough when when Angeline happened This amendment that put Deerbrook through this property or at least getting t from point A to point B because because Mr Kabal is correct. That the vision roads are point A to point B, getting from Deerbrook to fifty two, how you get there. But when this was done This you updated your you updated your um vision
roadmap to do this. It wasn't done through a public hearing notice with letters in connection with the Angeline rezoning and comp plan amendment. Was not noticed that way. Unlike the burden that we took, which David made me do, which is tell these neighbors that there's gonna be a relign with this vision road. So I did something that I had did to notify the neighbors that Angeline did not do to this property owner. when this change was made because it was made as a comp plan amendment
initiated by the county when they updated their whole
yeah
their whole comp plan vision road map in twenty twenty two. And that's why I said look ultimately you sh If what you want to do with this road, we've come up with a solution working together. that allows the development of this property, allows for the division road in the future.
Ultimately you guys can talk more about what you want to do with your vision road. and have that conversation teed up 'cause that would be a complaint amendment Um in connection with an update to your to your vision road maps, which you do. I mean you do update your vision road map maps Often because we get these They were lines on the map. Then we talked development. What can we make work? Both to make your vision roads work, because they are important. And also to make development work and so that we ultimately you don't have to buy, you know, the right-of-way from the middle of
this property, which would b basically be you know uh quite expensive because you're gonna damage the whole property.
Okay. Can I ask you a question on this? I I see um where it says Vision Roadway option A, and above that there are three black boxes, and then there's another piece of land. Are those Yeah. From the three black boxes north, does is that not part of this application? That's
correct.
So the okay, so that's so n so we have the turn the east west road is not on the applicant's property at this point. Why Why are we not Why are we turning? So far north. A turn there on Shady Hills?
Well and there's a curve there. You can see the curve there.
So I'm guessing maybe that makes that dangerous to access it on the curve. So so we have to go to someone else's property who's not represented here today. Um but in the meantime You would build a way for people to get through that goes through your development along that What did that road that Terry showed mean anything to you? That vision road A?
Well I'm I'm just saying that's not something that was done with you. That that road means nothing. The layout of that road
was never done with that property owner.
Okay. So
I was by that wastewater. And they were never noticed, unlike the fact that we noticed the properties all around us regarding this vision road at realignment. It's not this landowner's fault.
Yeah.
I I'll tell you I'm not comfortable I'll tell you why. Like you just mentioned safety ex et cetera. I I would love to s give the time to need to go devise us where we could have a roadway that would be Seamlessly going through. Sidewalks on both sides. Have your cuts where your buildings are, et cetera, to get your people to access in and out. But to have your people parking right on the edge of the street? Think about that, whether it be horizontal parking or even side parking. I got traffic going both ways. Might might get busier later on, especially starting
out with the truck traffic coming in. It's a dangerous situation. I want to see it in the
main street in Newport TV.
I wanna s I want to see it protected on both sides. Have your cuts where you need 'em. But we've got to have it. You can't have people b backing out.
Our site can't accommodate that.
Well, uh you know, I I really wish
something to put it. I
think we were I think actually staff and engineering they all worked out a a good compromise. That keeps us out of court. Keeps the vision road alive.
And we have work to do. Provides for the connectivity that the the code requires.
I think that's for right now. I think they've worked out Our only option personally. What else is there?
And the turn lanes on Sheet Hills Road, of course. Do you think that's a good one? Uh
do we know, maybe Nick you can answer this when w uh uh maybe when Shady Hills is gonna be about what year it's gonna be widened?
So
Press down and hold. Uh
a newbie.
Yeah, good good afternoon. Um Nick Uran, County Engineer. Uh we don't have a a project in our five year CIP to widen this section of Shady Hills Boulevard. So I can only say it's not going to be widened in the next five years.
Madam Clerk, there's one more one more comment, which is that if we actually require this applicant to build a road, a true collector road through the project. We're gonna have to give them mobility fee credits under state law, so it would no longer be a free road. We'd we'd be paying for it indirectly. They we There's no legal mechanism where we can force somebody to build a road And not give them credits.
Yeah, I think I think you have
Solution forward. Until we figure out How we're gonna do that. do the other. Um but there's gotta be a connection.
Yeah, the answer's no.
So Madam Chairman Mariano. So David, how wide of a road do we need to for a two-lane road going back and forth with sidewalks on both sides?
I'm going to defer to
not not that not that we want it, but for them to go building it.
I don't want to do a collector road. I just want to put a road that's going to go through. I want it to be their road, it runs through. How wide can a two lane road be with the sidewalks on both sides?
But Commissioner, you it's going to function as a collector. So that's I mean that's what you're talking about doing, so it that's really the dimension you'd have to use. With it's not it's not a vision re it's not But there local roads, there's subdivision collectors, there's you know So I
It would be probably sixty or seventy feet, but Nick can you confirm that.
If you're asking the minimum width of the facilities to allow for conveyance of people and cars, I'd say thirty three feet. Two eleven foot travel lanes, two five foot sidewalks, two six inch curbin curbs. Dope. Eleven plus eleven's twenty two, thirty two plus the six inch curves on either side between the road and the sidewalk, thirty three.
Okay.
I mean that's that that's not plating it as a right of way, that's not creating a road, that is just providing facilities that are suitable for travel by vehicles and pedestrians from one end to the other through the site.
So it's three feet different than what you've said. said. Well you said we're gonna doing thirty already, now we're doing thirty. If we do thirty three we're good.
Eleven. Yeah, so eleven. So we have our access ways have to be a certain width too. The issue is a configuration issue. It's an issue of whether we can have any parking. And have our sidewalks
Jason that's it's a configuration issue. And so i if you can't configure your buildings then you're constraining the site. And well, that's what it makes it unworkable. But that's why I'm saying if we have those travel lanes The condition that says we have to have those travel lanes, we have to have bike ped connectivity, how we design it up. And to make it work, because we're trying to find something that works, because if we just If we don't find something that works then we don't find something that works. But we're trying to combinate to make something work. It's a configuration issue.
So if we can make it work. I'm okay to put some of the impact fee toward it. To get the road to be safe. So that's gonna take some time.
Why do you think that's not safe? I mean there's roads like that all over America. We have them all over Tampa Bay. Grand Boulevard, Main Street. Um rangeland. Lake Blant, yeah.
If I could clarify, the thirty three feet is the minimum width needed for those components, but I would have no objection to meandering the sidewalk to the back of on street parking or parking spaces that would be accessed from the drive aisles, these two eleven foot travel lanes. Okay. So it it doesn't mean that it has to be a continuous thirty three foot wide typical section through the property, it just means that those are the minimum widths where all of those components are provided adjacent to one another.
Okay. All right, so the devil's gonna be the details of the site plan.
Yes.
So
we
all want to meet with you when the site plan comes in.
Do you concur with what your engineer just said about the configuration? Yeah.
Madam Chairman Mariano.
Years past We've had sometimes an approvals like a project like this and it's probably been like ten, fifteen years since we did it. But we asked of the site plan to come back to the board for final approval. And this one is such a sensitive thing I think we should ask for that. Do you have any objection to that?
That's within your discretion. It's whether the the applicant I mean
There's no standards to do that, so we basically wouldn't have an approval today.
What? No we're
you don't have any standards of reviewing a site plan at the board level. So I mean it's just and it takes a long time to do that because I we did there we had an old condition in the the project at Ross and Little that required the site plan to come back. We had to get all the way through the site plan approval so the staff reviewed it. It took six months and then it took three months to get to you all. So you're talking you know and then at the end if you don't like It's a really difficult thing to bring a site plan back to you guys. I lived it. It sounds good when you're at rezoning. Let's just
do that. But it's it's very hard to do it.
Well here's a problem, the people at Rosh Land, they're ticked off. Period. They were unhappy because they were supposed to get a light there. They thought they were gonna get a light there, and it didn't happen. Had we brought the site plan back, maybe they'd have got it.
Well, first of all. That project is did contribute to making to making the light there. The county is putting the light in. The county, regardless of that project, closed that access for the VA. So it was nothing to do with that developer. But I'm just saying, regard that it has nothing to do with this at all. But what's saying it sounds very easy to bring a site plan back, but I'm telling you it is not that easy. And it again we're trying to Work together and move this project forward, but all these things actually make a big difference in our success or failure here. So we'd ask that
you not do that.
Well uh how can we condition it with certain conditions in the site plan? Is there possi
I wrote a condition that I think both your county at attorney has yeah said and your county engineer.
You're not gonna be able to c I don't know that you can strengthen that condition anymore. I mean unless you want to require specific infrastructure, but it kind of already does. So I
think why don't we add what What um our county engineer said about the parking Whatever he said, did that make you more comfortable, Jack?
I would rather continue it for thirty days.
I I think there's a the path forward here, but I don't wanna Put people in jeopardy. And if you don't want to wait for the site plan, You get time to look at it. I know you guys are puzzled. I know you're already looking at the site plan already. You haven't fully devised yet 'cause of different things, but I think that's the way to go approach this here.
I'm just not sure our conversation will be much different, but um I can ask my client.
If that's here on the twenty fifth, I'm not here. So Um
I don't know what more we could change.
What's what's do you guys have any opinions? I I like the suggestion.
Nick made.
But the the other piece to this
Um Bigger picture. Maybe an afterno After
Dear Book C D president The way the road configuration is in Dearborn, I mean there's seven cul-de-sac. I don't it it's perplexing to me that these are publicly owned roads. This whole community is set up as if it should be a gated community. And somehow the developer got the county to be on the hook for these roads, just the whole layout of Of of Deerbrook.
the C D the C D president if the the members vote. I don't know what the rule is, but if they vote to take ownership of their community, that means they can have their roads and then they can gate.
This is an HOA, it's not a C or a H
O A. What excuse me, the vernacular
Well the difference is uh you're you can convey it to another public entity It's much more complicated to turn these back o back to being private. There are provisions to do that, but it's much more difficult.
They could go back to the HOA County Attorney?
It's not just as simple as it would be with a C D D, which is why I made the statement that it it it's not a C D D
We have a long way to go. So I want to keep the board meeting moving. So
I would just say that look uh regarding the Deerfield Lakes people Going to Dunkin' Donuts. I go through their project. We are gonna g have an alternative. You can go through our project. So we're actually making the connectivity and the options, which is why you have a connectivity ordinance, so people have different options of way to move around. So And again it's it is slated for it could have have commercial, which again people could be going all different fi different directions. So I I do think the solution by
having more connectivity through our project would make their Could it's much more durable.
It helps them, for sure.
I think the Deerfield Road Project is a different conversation. That's what I meant by that. It's a bigger picture conversation in this area. Um
Anyway, uh I'm c I'm More comfortable With Nick's way in on how this would work. Um
Madam Chair, if I could just make a suggestion, if you just took Barber's condition and just said that the access way has to be approved by the county engineer. Well Barbara, would that be? acceptable to use without getting into Exact exact design details.
Let me ask my county engineer,
yes. So
let me ask my county engineer. engineer. Can you do that? And I don't want to be in a situation where Not that you can approve it or not. I want this to be looked at as the eng our engineer.
professional opinion that you think it's going to be safe whatever it gets designed. So not like whether they can do it or not. What'll be like a situation at Happy Hill. I wanna make sure that you say whether you think it's safe or not. Not whether they can do it or not. I need to be very clear about that.
Safety should be first.
Yeah. Another thing I can't understand why this ends up being uh on consent.
Yeah. Um let's take a motion to continue.
Madam Chairman
Yes.
So I'm gonna make a motion to approve
With a Conditions listed by Yeah.
It would be the same one that Barbara read earlier, but My suggestion assuming Barbara's client agreed, was to just add that that access way would have to be approved by the county engineer.
Okay. So with it with
a mind to say Barbara was your client okay with that or is it not? Tony?
Right the problem, yeah.
It's better than the continuous. Let's get it done.
I just think the Mr. County Engineer, you did state that that access way could have parking along the access way and then the sidewalks on the other side Whether it be parallel or vertical, right? Those were w ways that we could do this, right?
Agree.
Yes.
Okay, make a motion.
Okay.
Was that your motion?
There you go. I'll go back. The way you described it. It seemed to me that you wanted to see the roadway and the sidewalks there for the best safety. Are you saying differently now that she's asked you the question the way she asked you?
I I don't understand your question.
You could move the sidewalk from one to the from one to the other, depending on the Route you wanted to run it through the apartments. But I didn't understand you to say you thought the parking was safe along the roadway. Are you saying that you think that's safer? Oh that is safe?
I do think it's adequately safe to have on street parking on this connector roadway.
Would your on-street parking be like a um alongside the roadway horizontal or are you saying people can like pull in, pull out from right angles?
So I I would be looking to the board to give me guidance on what you would be willing to accept. Both parallel and perpendicular parking spaces on a roadway connection of this type would be deemed adequately safe, in my professional opinion. But if you think one of them obstructs the usefulness of the connection. To the to an extent that you would not like to see it occur, for example, no perpendicular parking spaces, that should be part of the motion.
I I wouldn't do perpendicular, but the other two should be horizontal I'm okay with.
Okay, so we can agree to that. Yeah. So we're back at this, you know, again we
You can't
agree? We cannot agree to that. We kn cannot agree.
Perpendicular?
We
You would what about pair uh angular or What's it called?
Parallel or angle angled.
That takes up less space. I mean you're trying to to we're we're trying to accommodate the access way and the pedestrian movement in a manner that we can develop our project. The more you change that, the more we can't be successful. And that's that is the rub. But You've had your county engineer who said that the configuration which I've said could happen which would be the travel lanes, the adequate size travel lanes parking, whether it be whichever way the parking goes, and a sidewalk, he said that that's adequate
for this type of interconnectivity. Again, we're doing interconnectivity by the code through this project. We're not doing a vision road, we're not doing a county collector road, we're not doing a road. Because those things as as David had said you would uh need to pay for and and we'd have to be able to accommodate, which we can't accommodate. So I mean I think that's a good thing. That's why I was satisfied of saying the county engineer can approve it because he said that he's fine with different parking configuration, whether it be Whichever way the parking is, he thinks that still provides the interconnectivity. So
No, I'm not sure. I think it's d m if I could.
Yeah.
So I think I think it's that vertical parking coming and out, I mean you've got to be people going around that thing. Maybe running the school, running here, running there. Um And I I think it's just a dangerous scenario. I would rather work with you to go work on getting some NFAC fee credits to go build this road in a safer way. That would offset your cost and make it more feasible. And I don't take a look at the right-of-way. I don't know how long it would take to go go through and look at it, but I would much rather do do that than do it where I could put a dangerous
situation
out there.
How many impact fee what What uh what amount of impact fee is generated by one point five million. That's not gonna build a road. Right?
But it might be enough to offset their f profitability to make it work. And that might make it safer for our people. I'm willing to have the discussion to have it looked at.
It's about a thirteen acre site here, so I mean it's not like we can put roads. Thirty thirty feet three foot roads. We have to try to accommodate with the development. That's the way we're providing the interconnectivity is with this development. It's a whole new discussion if we're trying to do a road for you all.
You were gonna do thirty feet for us anyway, right?
I'm good with staff. Your vision
road enough.
The motion on the table.
No, he hasn't made a motion. I I I
No, I'm pulling the motion. I'm pull pulling the motion back because I'm not I'm not satisfied with the safety. I'd I'd rather continue it and and work this out or bring the site black Site plan back to
what's I don't see what can change other than a court hearing. Personally. So we can't think we need to wait. Do you wanna wait?
I wanna wait. Thirty days or
I guess
we're going to continue the right way and I want to be safe.
I agree. So um I make a motion to continue.
So you do Madam Chair, if I could just clarify clarification 'cause we need to know what staff is going to do in the next thirty days. I don't have any clue what if if you if you want if you want the applicant to prepare a site plan that shows how this interconnectivity would work. That may be able to occur in thirty days, I would defer to Barbara and her client, but Or I'm not sure if you're asking us to do that or go back and try to negotiate an actual road deal because those are two very different conversations.
I think did I see Steve Henry here? Yes. Can he can you make any comments to this road with parking on it that Makes Commissioner Mariano more comfortable? Do you mind?
Uh no, Steve Henry Linkson Associate 5023 West Laurel. I I and I agree with the the county engineer. I think that this is this is not a County Collector Roadway. I it is an interconnect roadway that can be designed, whether it be parallel parking, ninety degree parking, can be designed safely to be able to accommodate the amount of traffic. We're not talking about 50,000 cars per day. We're talking about an interconnection that happens all the time w within you know a areas. So it can be done. It just needs to be done properly, making
sure there's op adequate site distance, those type of things. You can't put the parking on a on a tight curve, those type of things, but it can be designed to be safe given the volume that we're talking about here. Again, this is just an interconnect. It is not a county collector roadway.
So when when you talk about donating 30 feet of right-of-way, that would be on the left-hand side of your property for a future vision road that we would come in and build later as Angeline develops to the south? So then we'd have both your Through way and the vision road.
And
we'll take that one point whatever million dollars and put it towards the vision road when it's time to build that.
You have both solutions is what I've offered. We've offered both solutions. Right. That's a good deal.
The solution of you ultimately can build a vision road because we're giving you right away for that towards that. So you've kind of got both solutions that. And lets the project move forward.
And the other thing is that you know the the neighbors are talking about cut through traffic and everything else. The reality is if you don't do this and and you wait for the vision road I may You got ten million dollars, you know, i that may never happen as opposed to this collector or this connector roadway can happen almost immediately, so that you get that relief today with the option of in the future to be able to do the vision road. So you get both. And you get that relief almost immediately.
And the apartment complex builder is not gonna build something that's dangerous that gets him sued all the time. So I I think he will want to s build a safe road too. So I think we can move this through with the engineer taking a good look at it. And Commissioner Mariano, I would suggest you get a meeting. You know, maybe we're all gonna ask you for a meeting. It doesn't have to be a meeting like this but w you know we're But I'm ca I'm comfortable now. understanding everything. I
really am.
Well, If we're gonna go down this road, I wanna be with the county engineer. As we look at this thing through And we discussed together what was what's safe and what's not.
Okay, so let's throw out that other motion. Let's make a new one and second it and let's move on. Three twenty one.
Move approval. With the stated access with a final approval of the county engineer. Without with his professional opinion period, no other consideration need to be done. Um allowing the extra height to four stories. Three hundred sixty unit max, allowing for on Shady Hills Road a left turn in and a right turn. Turn lane, D cell lane coming in on Shady Hills Road.
Okay. Second Madam Chairman, so that's Your motion also incorporates the conditions that staff has proposed for this project, correct? Because some of the things you said are already in the pr the approval.
Okay, so we have motion a second. Yes.
If I may, real quickly. I th I think there was also conversation on Non gated. Oh yeah.
I read the condition into the the record, and that condition is the record, it's just adding on to it that it's the county engineer's approval.
Thank you. So then no so to my motion as well to make sure non g non gated community as well.
Okay. Clarifying the second, I heard
Oakley. All in favor, aye, opposed? Okay. B thirty eight.