An Ordinance By The Pasco County Board Of County Commissioners Amending The Pasco County Land Development Code To Increase Fire Combat And Rescue Impact Fees Beyond The Phase-In Limitations In Section PC Addendum Agenda Page 4 of 6 163.31801(6), Florida Statutes; Amending Section 103.1 Jurisdictional Applicability; Providing For Amendments To Section 1302.6 Fire Combat And Rescue Service Impact Fee, To Make Such Section Consistent With The 2024 Fire Combat And Rescue Service Impact Fee Study And To Adopt Such Study; To Increase The Amount Of Fire Combat And Rescue Service Impact Fees; Providing For Additional Amendments As Necessary To Ensure Internal Consistency; Providing For Applicability; Repealer; Providing For Severability; Inclusion Into The Land Development Code, And An Effective Date.
What the county recorded
Staff recommendation
Approve
DispositionApproved
Approved Staff’s recommendation.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Apr 17, 2025
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Apr 17, 2025
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
This case, across meetings
FR-25-1621 in full →FR-25-1621 was taken up 3 times between Apr 17, 2025 and May 20, 2025 — this is appearance 1.
- Apr 17, 2025PlanningPC10▶Approvedthis item
- Apr 22, 2025BoardP51▶No action
- May 20, 2025BoardP45▶Adopted
What was said
Machine transcription of 22m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 55% of 111 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
So the first item is the workshop that you don't need to take any action on that. The second item is you have to Make a recommendation 'cause that's the ordinance itself. Um you have to determine whether you Find it consistent with the call plan.
The second item. But You need to at least ask for public comment. I realize there's nobody sitting in the audience, but it's a caution.
Would anybody like to speak? We we thought when we got here after we had all the support on social media over the last uh forty eight hours that they were all here in favor of it. But we quickly learned that people only show up in opposition and not support. So I think part yeah,
part of the reason you don't see anybody in the audience is they also went to T V B A and got a blessing on this increase as well. So
So this this was presented to T B B A who did support that um and then it was presented to uh horizontal and vertical round table yesterday afternoon. Um and then to the the previous question that was asked in that NFPA standard of seventeen ten, per one thousand population the recommendation is two point two eight firefighters per 1000 and we currently operate at one point one four. And we are four stations below the threshold of the standard for service delivery areas based on population. Um in
that capital improvement plan. Uh we've outlined and identified our next five prioritized service delivery areas. that we are well behind the eight ball in already. Uh the first being down in uh Commissioner Weightman's jurisdiction in the Union Park area where we're facing fourteen to twenty one minute responses and that's without any consideration of call concurrency where We have the the first due area to that area of geographical responsibility may be committed
on another call for service when a call comes in for their Um And then that capital improvement plan also supports and identifies the uh the apparatus and equipment that uh Peter had spoken to. Um Chief Gwyneth, did you want to touch on some of the station design considerations and
Um yeah. I mean I know that there's been some questions about you know Yeah. I know there's been some interest in and dis and questions about the cost of the station, size of the stations and such, and I know that um you know we've making we've made considerable um Changes to the process already. We've already decreased the ca the cost of each station by about two million dollars right now. Um but currently as the
five to six years before we have enough capital to build one. Uh we haven't built one out of um impact. Um quite some time actually 'cause we've been operating off of the Go Bond. And we do have plans to build one currently and that will put us in the negative with the impact revenue that we have already. So it's kind of a The necessity of this.
Is the goal to get to the two point two eight per thousand?
Our goal is to be premier and exceed that. Um and it that's a a timing and a staffing issue, not to mention the apparatus to support those firefighters and the stations to house them and
with what you're proposing, I mean, is there like a projection on how long it'll take you to get there? I mean are we talking twenty years or
so that again, between now and the the fruition of the capital improvement plan, not knowing what the population growth truly will be, we can't factor that. Um but it it will put us in a position to bring it up to that at our current population.
And NFPA is a standard and a recommendation we try our best to follow. Even at the current rate it says we're below uh four fire stations. Internally we recognize we're behind five fire stations just because of the geographical layout of Pasco County we're wider than we are tall and so, you know, we we have to take that into consideration as well. So we we do our best to follow NFPA.
Yeah, I mean obviously this is way outside of my knowledge base here and to try to follow I'm trying to follow the numbers but I mean obviously we see all the numbers and all the development that's coming for before us every two weeks. I just I would frankly I was a little surprised to see the non residential fee only went up seven percent.
Um but that's in also in consideration with removing the cap, so the fifty thousand square foot cap. Unfortunately I think we probably missed a boat on a lot of that as well, but it is what it is. We wanna we wanna be able to capture it moving forward.
Kudos to you guys for being able to provide the service you provide on two thousand and three fees. I wish it was I wish my two thousand and three budget at Publix worked the same as it does. Yeah,
yeah. It's it's the it's the troops. It's the hard work, yeah. Right. And and they do an incredible job, sir, our citizens and guests. We just identified a shortfall and we need it correctly going forward. Correct. Part of that was because they got the Go Bonds
approved. It helped let them catch up somewhat but they're still blind.
Can I just ask you a c a a stupid question maybe? Why is it that uh The firefighters are required to Send a fire truck every time there's a automobile accident. Well it seems like that puts you under a lot of pressure you don't need
it does. Um unfortunately we operate under the premise that we can only handle the calls that we currently have. So same reason that they go to uh houses, the the fire trucker follow the ambulance to the house for a medical call as well. If there's any indication of that cause a severe call. It's hard to handle with just two individuals on a on an ambulance. Uh you know, if we have to do C P R on you or if we have to do any advanced medical care on you, it takes upwards of three, four, five people sometimes. So is that because
you have the the med the severe care people on the fire trucks and not on the ambulance? Is that why? What's that, sir? I'm sorry. Is that because enough room for the people in the ambulance You have to do that. Your uh Your serious care people designated to the fire trucks?
They're actually on both. They're on the fire trucks and on the ambulances, but we we operate with three individuals on the fire truck, three personnel on the ambulance. And the majority of the time that's uh sufficient, but when it's not we send extra personnel. If they need it we'll jump people from one truck to the ambulance and then we can transport to the hospital and And maintain another unit in service.
Yeah. Doing the doing the best we can with what we got, sir.
Well I'm just
going to do that.
cut down on the on the demand, you know, because Seems to me like you're they got you running all over the place and
they do. And we're we're working on some new service delivery model.
I could see where in some cases you'd need all that and in other cases you wouldn't, you know. Yes sir. So Anyway, Anyway. uh yeah, I'm sort of like you. I'm uh
Um so one of the things we've talked about in here over the last few years Is that On a couple occasions we'd asked staff to make arrangements to get you guys in here to tell us what your needs are. From the extraordinary amount of development that we've been experiencing over the past few years.
What we need to understand Is What you need for land for fire stations. What you need, what infrastructure needs you have. From new development to Make your service, you know, to provide the service to the county residents. I'm trying to couch this nice 'cause I No when I would say it's not gonna come out right, but I mean I'm a little disappointed that we're here today. There's many times That
we could have asked developers to pony up a fire station site or
Mr. Moody we we we do entertain those. We are part of the MPUD process in the review. Uh we do entertain those conversations and we've been successful with with land acquisition through many of the developments at at the fair market uh the b land value. Um there has been a a few of those developers that have done uh land donation uh for that. Um our most recent one we broke ground on Last month station two in the uh fifty four Meadow Point Boulevard
corridor. Station two, they started site work last month.
Last month, yep.
Um, and that was uh a land donation from that developer. Um and that was all in discussions through the M P U D process. So Uh we we are fortunate where we have had opportunities and and we have uh
David if they do a a land if the developer gives land for like a fire station, do they get Just similar like we do with mobility fee credits. Do they get fired
combat fees?
So Yeah, they could do a charitable donation where they wouldn't get any credits. That rarely occurs. Um.
We'll take it.
It has. I mean I uh the the I will tell you the the park site we got in Wiregrass was a charitable donation. It was not for credit. So th occasionally it has occurred. Um But generally under state law we have to give them credits against the land part of our fee. I will tell you that some developers Complaining when our fee is too low. Because They can't do that. We can't absorb the credits. Right, sure. So Um you know, we actually had a park site in two rivers that we're
about to acquire where they There was no way we could have acquired it but for the increase in the impact fee to parks, which you all voted against, but Um that's water under the bridge. Um but it acquired it allowed us to acquire that a park slide in two rivers that we otherwise would not have been able to do.
We
knew
you'd find a way to
do it. In most recent instances we've still been forced to pay fair market value for the land that we're buying to put fire stations on. Yeah.
So yeah, and it's al it's always cheaper for us to get it through the development process and award credits than to force them to go out and buy it a site.
So I guess that's what I'm inviting you to do is we s so often we get the comments from your department in the M P U D's and that the comment is no comment. But we don't know to ask for such things if we don't hear from you.
In our capital improvement plan, our strategic align, um we we have where MPUD may coming in at the northwest corner and we've already secured land acquisitions on the northeast corner to where we we would respond with no comment.
So the difference with fire to The reason you see like you see a land exaction erodes on almost every MPD that goes through. The difference is that there's roads everywhere. But there's only so many fire stations they need, so you're not going to see a exaction for a fire state on on every single room.
fire stations from hundred unit MPUDs. But It's the multi thousand unit ones and they've been in here before. Those are the appropriate ones and those are that's the time and the place.
And th trust me, they are asked on every one of these MPDs if that's the case and I don't think they're trying to do that.
Speak up you'll get 'em.
And usually the developers are are pretty common any when it comes to fire station sites. They actually fight us less about those sites than they do school sites. Uhhuh. Park sites. They fight us more about school sites and park sites than they do fire station sites. Because their request is usually like four to five acres. It it's not Well yeah, it's smaller. Much smaller.
They don't want the Cadillac like Richard. Correct. Richard wants thirty, forty, fifty acre sites.
If Richard can secure thirty five we'll carve out five. There you go.
facility as well. I don't know how often that's still occurring, but
it it so all of our new builds um in the last ten years has afforded space for a a substation, if you will, for the sheriff's office.
So they do i indirectly help the sheriff as well when we build these sites. Okay. And then
just a bit of an unrelated question. Is there any development trend that has materialized over the past
the way we design subdivisions or the way apartment complexes are built and designed that causes any increase in the need for your service?
Not not currently. Um you know our wood frame multifamily is a fear in the industry. uh abroad and it you know it's spoken at at NFPA conferences. Uh we we heard lots of lectures on it at uh F DIC last week in Indianapolis. Um but we're not there. It it's all new construction, so it it's all gonna be the human air component your electrical fault in your uh unintentional or not by design fires that we're not seeing them right now. Okay. Well
that's good. Um, you know, there we we've worked really well with a lot of the developers in the new uh horizontal apartment platform. Uh where they're, you know, conforming to our requests and needs for remote courtyards and uh uh sprinklers systems, residential systems in those units, um as well as some design on our fire department connections to uh to re reach all those units individually. So
And you have things like going to arc fault uh breakers and things like that which help a
lot. And there there's a lot of new there's uh a a lot of new technology coming out uh in the form of residential hood suppression systems as well as outlets that are integrated with smoke alarms and detection uh that will shut that down. Uh they're all still pending UL approvals, uh but that'll be at the forefront probably within the next three to five years. So I
I have one more question for you. Since we're on unrelated topics to impact fee now. Um So there's a lot of times that we get presented with something called an emergency access to the Planning Commission. Which I assume usually means there's some installation of some emergency gate. Who How does that work in practice? Like if they're There's a fire or whatever, like what what for how do you get the gate open?
Or a gate? Big truck. So we we we have to have two means. Um we operate off of the SOS system, which is uh it's activated by the siren. So any electronic that that does not apply to maca uh mechanical gates, it's only electric gates. There's a feature that that uh acknowledges our mode on the siren and that'll open it and sustain it open for a set duration of time. And then there's a secondary means that they have to provide either by a a key device which can incorporate into our knock system. Uh
Richard, I'm sure you're familiar with the NUX, right? So uh there's a a key secure device in all of our apparatus that's unique to our organization and agency. On all the commercial structures and any of those gates, uh that key is taken out of the fire truck, if you will, and utilized to override in the event that that's the right-of-way. Does that just change?
I
If it's a McCarthy, you can't do it.
We have a a Knox lock padlock uh that that operates off that function. The school board does it on on all their man gates um and then their their uh swing arm gates that aren't electric.
And do you normally Only do that when you're bringing your own truck. Or are there times when You have to open up a gate. Like say there was a fire in the subdivision and you need to get people out of the subdivision, do you sometimes Open the gate for that reason too, or like
how how does it so i it that only applies to ingress. So egress is all on the approach. Okay. Um s that that's with with any of the gate, egress is is on the approach. So usually it's by design with a a metal sensor or a weight switch or a pressure switch. Um I guess my question is
have you ever used it in a scenario where Your vehicle's already gotten in. But for whatever reason the fire or accident or whatever is blocking residents from being able to get out their normal exit. Have you ever Opened it up for that purpose? Uh n
not not the I d that any instance that I know of. Um it it's only on the ingress side to the development of the community or the apartment complex. And then it there there is a set default that it stays open. So when the first apparatus, if it is a multi-company alarm where we have many units going in, the first company's not coming in with their sirens and then a second one, so it there is a delay that it'll stay. open uh but for for means of egress and to evacuate people um it's
always always been on the the egr egress side of the the entrance.
Well and if it's a manual gate then
If it's manual gate, we'll yeah, we'll usually try to put in a locked position.
But but I'm saying on on Egress. So leaving the neighborhood with a manual gate where you so you have the same ability to go from the
from that side of the gate as well.
Mostly on the west side of the county where there's a designated access for fire department access that has a manual gate. And that would be our approach in. So on the way in that would go into a locked open position and residents would have the option uh Yeah,
I'm basically just trying to figure out do you have the ability to keep the gate open? If you found that That was the only way that people could get in and out.
Now i i if it if it is, we can override it with a Knox switch. Um so we could in an instance like that put it in an open position and leave it till we restored it.
But on
on the
SOS feature itself, that's time delayed from activation.
Most of the automatic gates are designed with a release function once you're inside anyways. A quick flip of a switch we can release the the automatic openers on the gates anyways and move 'em where we wanted them. Uh that's a real quick function for us.
So to get back to impact fee so just uh to mention what you'd mentioned before about how we voted down the par parks and rec fee at the time. I think it's generally because we're you know we're mostly made up of a of a conservative board that's not crazy about new taxes. That being said, um according to um Bureau of Labor and Statistics CPI inflation calculator, if we calculate from two thousand three when the impact fee was initiated for fire and rescue till now We've
had compounded inflation of seventy-three point six one percent and you guys are looking for a sixty percent increase. So just inflation alone, not even talking about um population increase or anything else. Uh it justifies the sixty percent increase in um impact fee. Compound inflation since two thousand three.
That's something in my line of work we we watch inflation very closely. So that's When I thought, you know, inflation is y you hear the two and a half percent number or three percent number, obviously we had higher numbers in recent years, but uh that's a com you know, you gotta think about that. It's compounded. It's not, you know So over two you know, twenty two years that's a lot.
Yes sir. By way of clarification, an impact fee is not legally not a tax.
I don't want any of you to be accused of raising taxes. You are not raising taxes, I want to be clear.
We we we we want that capital revenue line to sustain our growth parallel to our service delivery.
In fact, one could argue that impact fee reduce tax burden.
And And it does because we're not looking at that general fund or the MSTU to fund the the the capital side of the house or, you know, looking at general obligations bonds. Um we we we want that that revenue stream reducing tax to sustain the expenses. Yeah, we're heroes.
But as our needs for
mailbox to as I pointed out to someone who's going to be making the final decision on this, not just a recommendation. In percentage terms it looks large. In actual dollar terms, when compared to the cost of the house, it's not that large.
And again it's it's they're asking for less percentage than just the inflation over that period of time. So By the way,
I've raised that very complaint with legislators who who keep trying to change that statute because That fifty percent. His it it's relative to the uh to the base fee. So If your existing fee is a hundred dollars, You know, even a fifty dollar increase Because now it triggered this extraordinary circumstances thing, which is not fair to Somebody who's got their fee so low to begin with. So
it's it's relative to the m last time it was updated as
well. The fifty percent is kind of an arbitrary number that doesn't make sense in a lot of circumstances.
60 percent is not that big of a number when you talk about something up to the arbitrary things in government but that's a
conversation for another day now if you guys are finished buttering these guys up in case you ever need anything let's have a vote. Well this is just a workshop right
well then the first part is a workshop you need to take
action on the second one.
Okay. So I'll move approval for PC ten.
Second We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Signify by saying aye.
Aye.
Aye. Aye. How's the light sign?
Sy dead silence. Thank you. Thank you. Great presentation.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your service. Thank yes, thank you for your service.