Application For Vested Rights Determination-Joshua Ortiz And Danielle Souza- 12674 Valimar Road, Parcel ID 28-25-17-0200-27900-0110, Lots 11 And 12, Block 279, Moon Lake Estates Unit Twenty (Public Hearing: 2/17/26, 1:30 P.M., New Port Richey)
What the county recorded
Staff recommendation
Approve
DispositionApproved
Approved option number two by roll call vote with finding a potential reuse for the structure that is currently on the site and, if that cannot be found within 30 days, than it can be used as a credit with Chairman Mariano absent from the vote and Commissioner Oakley voting nay.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Board of County Commissioners, Feb 17, 2026
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Board of County Commissioners, Feb 17, 2026
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
This case, across meetings
CAO-26-3501 in full →Heard once. CAO-26-3501 appears on no other agenda in the archive.
- Feb 17, 2026BoardP59▶Approvedthis item
What was said
Machine transcription of 52m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 58% of 302 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
All right, item P fifty nine.
P fifty nine, proof of publication, Tampa Bay Times, January the twenty-eighth, twenty twenty six, and by affidavit of certified mailings and site postings.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. David Goldstein, Chief Assistant County Attorney for Pasco County. This is an application for vested rights determination filed on behalf of Joshua Ortiz and Daniel Souza. The address is 12674 Valamar Road.
So I gotta go through some facts and for any vested rights application, the facts are important. So you just have to bear with me as I go through these facts. So Mr. Ortiz and Ms. Souza entered into an agreement with Prestige Home Centers for to place a home a mobile home in Moon Lake Estates. The purchase price of the home was $175,904. And they they contracted with Prestige to to build that mobile
home on their lot. And Prestige through a through a consultant. applied for a building permit through the county through our SELA process and they applied for that permit on August 15th of 2025. On August 28, 2025, a County Development Code Review Specialist signed off on the mobile home as being permitted in the zoning district on the lot.
Unfortunately, that determination was a mistake because that lot is zoned R1, and mobile homes are not a permitted use in the R1 zoning district. Now, had that mobile home been a modular home, it would have been permitted in the R1 zoning district, but there's a key difference between modular homes and mobile homes. Modular homes are designed and built to Florida building code standards, and they're installed by a licensed contractor on a permanent
foundation, and mobile homes are generally not. The county reviewer who who uh made this determination was aware that it was a mobile home, but mistakenly thought that this lot was zoned AR, where mobile homes are allowed. And I'll show you the zoning map that kind of um explains. So this particular lot is
You can you can kinda see it on on on the map, but it's It's kind of surrounded by a sea of um there's AR in the vicinity, which is the green area, and the the lot in question is surrounded by R1. So it's not There is so I think the reviewer thought that this lot was in the AR area, the green area, but the lot all the lots around it are in fact R1. So one thing that the planning department did look at before the vested
rights application was filed was can they rezone the lot? Because that might have been a remedy. Could we just rezone it to AR? But that would have been spot zoning, clearly, because All of the zoning, the entire zoning around this lot is R1.
Question?
Yes.
Are you saying the green is AR?
I'm saying the green is AR.
And the white is a regular. How do you miss those two? I mean 'cause that's very clearly green and that's I mean there's such different colors. Are they someone? Sorry, but someone not looking at the map?
I can't speak for the reviewer. Okay. I I I I s I suspect that the reviewer just didn't look at the map.
Well and we've got that fixed now.
I believe that they've taken steps since since this has happened to correct that issue.
What do the pink dots mean?
Um those I don't think those are relevant homes on them? Yeah. Okay.
So based on that mistake, the county issued a building permit for the mobile home on September 29th, 2025. We pr then prestige proceeded to begin installation of the Boba Home on the lot in October of twenty twenty five. Shortly thereafter the county received a complaint from one of the neighbors who resides in one of the site built homes on Valamar Road. After conducting an investigation, the County revoked the building permit on november twenty
first of twenty twenty five because mobile homes are not allowed in the R One zoning district.
This is a photograph of the partially installed mobile home on Valimar Road.
Because the permit was revoked, Prestige was unable to complete the installation of the mobile home or schedule final inspections, and Mr. Ortiz has been unable to occupy the home. Prestige has been paid in full for the mobile home by the mortgage company, and Mr. Ortiz has begun making mortgage payments of approximately $1,661 per month since November of 2025. And because Mr. Ortiz could not move into the mobile home, he had to renew his
lease at his existing residence, which happens to be across the street. at a cost of about $1,575 per month, and then he also has to pay a termination fee if he terminates that new lease before November 30th of 2026.
In December of 2025, Mr. Ortiz, with the assistance of the Planning Department, sought vested rights through the County Attorney's Office pursuant to section 407.6 of the Land Development Code. The Planning Department waived the application fee for Mr. Ortiz. The application had some content deficiencies, but we waived those content deficiencies. As a general rule, vested rights requires three elements. It requires good faith reliance, an act or omission by the county, and a
substantial change in position or the incurring of extensive obligations or expenses by the applicant. It generally only applies in exceptional circumstances, and it does not apply to transactions forbidden by law or contrary to public policy.
In this case, it's fairly clear that there was a county actor omission, in the sense that we did in fact make a determination that the that this um mobile home was allowed in the zoning. It was erroneous, but we made that determination and we did clearly issue a burning per building permit. But it's also fairly clear that Mr. Ortiz made a substantial change of position and incurred expenses based on that on that act or remission, in the sense that he's already begun making
making mortgage payments. He had to enter into a lease a new lease. So he's clearly changed his position based on that act or remission by the county. The probably the two most debatable issues in this case are good faith reliance and public policy. The reason good faith reliance is debatable is because there's case law that says that if it's a mutual mistake of fact. That that is not a basis for good faith reliance. And I'm not gonna stand
here and educate you on all the way the competing case law on this issue, but there is some case law that suggests that if it's f if both sides make a mistake, that that's not a basis for good faith reliance, and there's cases both ways on that issue, so it is a debatable issue. The reason public contrary to public policy is a debatable issue is because this is a potential intrusion of a mobile home into a street that does have predominantly site-built homes on it. I'm going to explain that in a
second. So There are some homes on this on this um street that are modular homes. So this is I believe the home that I Mr. Ortiz lives in now. Um this is building department has told me this is a modular home. So it was permitted as a modular home.
David, excuse me one second. Before you go on, can you please tell us the definition of a modular and a mobile home?
Okay. So a modular home is a manufactured home, so it's generally manufactured off site, but it is built to it is in is built by a it's installed by a licensed contractor and it is built to Florida building code standards and it's built on a fixed foundation. Um
a fixed foundation and it is assessed by the by the property prayers and tax collector as a site built home. Um it doesn't depreciate like a mobile home. It doesn't um it's treated for all for for property tax purposes. as a permanent improvement to the property, just like it was, just like a site built home would be. It just happens to have been manufactured off site. A mobile home is different. A mobile home, the best way to think of it is it's
it's built to HUD standards and it's treated like a vehicle. Okay, so it it's m it can be moved off site, it's um it depreciates like a vehicle, does it can does not have to be installed by a licensed contractor, um, does not have to be installed on a fixed foundation. And so um and can be moved. And can be moved. And depreciate. It can depreciate.
It does.
It generally does depreciate. Um so that's the difference. Well now the exterior appearance may be similar though. So that's why it's not always easy to tell from the street. So like this particular home from the street might appear to look like a mobile home, but it's in fact was permitted and as a modular home. And so there's another home on the street. This one, first glance, to me that looks like a mobile home. I inquired
with staff, they said no, that one was permitted as a modular home.
So how was that on a fixed found how was that on a slab foundation? That's what I don't understand.
That's a good question for I'm gonna have to I would have to defer to our building department on it because I asked this question. They told me this one was permitted as a modular home.
But you didn't you say Moderome has to be on a Yeah, let's let's not debate this particular house. Let's get
it. So I only brought this one up as an example of of what's on the street. Okay. I I'm not And I was been told by the building department it was permitted as a modular home. Okay. But this home and the one before it in my opinion are the exception rather than the rule on the street. Okay. Um most of the homes on the street look like this home. or
this home. or this home. The majority of the homes on the street are what I'll say more typical site built homes. Um so That's that's the public polic potential public policy concern is that you are potentially allowing a mobile home in an on a street that has predominantly site-billed homes.
So, what are all the board's alternatives in this situation? Let me start by saying that I think from a legal defense standpoint, I could defend any of these alternatives. So let me start there. Okay. Um, so I'm I'm not married to any one of these. Let's start start by saying that. Um The first alternative that I provided was that you grant vested rights to Mr. Ortiz, but you try to mitigate this potential intrusion
issue by limiting the vested rights to Mr. Ortiz personally. And if Mr. Ortiz ever Sells the home or the lot that the mobile home would have to be removed. The advantage of that alternative is that it's not a permanent intrusion of the mobile home into the neighborhood. It's a temporary intrusion of the mobile home, and eventually the lot would have to be revert back to its normal R1 zoning in the future. Um that's alternative
one. Under alternative one, but even under alternative one, I am recommending that if Mr. Ortiz is allowed to move into the mobile home, that the building department be required to pay his rent from November to March because he had to rent because of this mistake, he had to rent another another home for a period of months because of our building department's mistakes. So I don't think it's fair that we not reimburse him for that rent from November to March. Um
under alternative two, that's a very different alternative. Alternative two, you would be denying Mr. Urti's vested rights, and you would be, the building department would be paying to replace the mobile home with a modular home. So a modular home, as we talked about, is permitted in the R1 zoning district. Now I spoke to Prestige about what it would cost to replace a mobile home with a modular home. Um It's the the
cost is about if you if you took they took the trade in of the mobile home as a trade in, um that cost is about a hundred and forty three thousand dollars difference. Um so under alternative two We would be paying to replace the mobile home with a modular home. That would take about four to six months to do. So it takes longer to do. We would be paying for Mr. Ortiz's rent from November to August because it takes longer to do that process. Um
and so that cost.
Alternative one the cost was about ten thousand nine hundred and seventy-five dollars. Alternative three is similar to alternative one. Um you'd be granting Mr. Ortiz vested rights, it just wouldn't be subject to any conditions, the limits to him limits it to him personally. In other words, you'd be giving him the right to the mobile home and the home could just stay there as long as it would be a permanent decision that a mobile home could always be on that lot under alternative three. Alternative
four, you would deny vested rights and you would deny any monetary relief to Mr. Ortiz. Those are the four alternatives that I now. Um there's different variations on these that we can come up with. Um I know that there was one idea floated uh there would be a variation of alternative two where we actually keep the mobile home. Um we could do that because prestige is only giving us a fifty thousand dollar fifty five thousand dollar credit for the mobile home. We could do that,
but I would need to have some county department that was be have the ability to take the mobile home off the lot quickly so that we could get the modular home in. Um and I don't know if there's a county department that could do that or not. Um if we were to go with that option, we'd have to pay an additional fifty-five thousand under option two because we wouldn't get the credit for the existing mobile home because we'd be keeping the mobile home.
Do you do you mind I have a video of the street. Do you mind if it's now a good time to play it?
Sure.
Okay. I just wanted the board to see this is the um entire street and I have the zonings pulled up. It's um it's very mixed bag out there.
Coming down they're watching right now.
Is this Valimar?
Yes
it is.
Well I'm not taking pictures of the houses, no.
But you're not.
Yeah.
Are you done are you d there's the there's what I showed you this morning. Um are you done with your presentation, David?
I am. Um other than uh well the only thing I'm gonna say I'll wait I'll wait till she's done with the video and then I'll conclude.
Yeah,
I'm getting dizzy. I'm gonna have to stop looking.
Yes, full of violations.
Okay. Thank you.
That's not part of that's not part of part of the right-of-way. I I I've
got a video too. Okay, so anyway, um so this is a public hearing. Um Mr. Um Clark Hobby is here representing the applicant, so I think you should hear from him first. Um We are recommending alternative one or alternative two, depending on the board's preference. But like I said, I could defend any of these alternatives, so it's really up to the board to make that determination.
Um just a com I have to leave at 155, so um I will phone in camera. Is that okay? okay?
If you're online. Yeah.
Okay. So with that I'll turn it over to Mr. Hobby.
Mr. Hobby.
Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Star Clark, Hobby, 109 North Brussel Street, Tampa, Florida have been sworn. I'll be very brief. Staff uh had a a thorough uh presentation here, and the facts really aren't at issue. Uh we don't have any real problems with the facts as they were presented in the the uh memo that went to the board. What this is really a case of is just fundamental. Um We call it equitable estoppel in the legal world, but Mr.
Ortiz clearly did not know he didn't make a mistake. He didn't know what the zoning was because he hired the company uh to do the work, prestige. And it's very similar to what people would do when they're buying a new site-built house. When you buy a new site-built house from Pulti or whoever You you rely on them to make sure in the county to make sure that the zoning's in place and all that kind of stuff. That's what happened here. And he went out and got a mortgage for a bunch of money in reliance
on that. And it turned out what happened was Prestige didn't do a lot of due diligence. They had gotten other recent ones approved in Moon Lake, but they just submitted the building permit. And BCS does a wonderful job and they've had a heck of a year dealing with all the hurricane stuff that they did, but it's a huge number of things that they process and a mistake was made. And all we're here today to do is to deal with the the fairness of it and how do we make it right for Mr. Ortiz. And
I think you also, you know, the board's in the position of making sure that they don't make a bad call for the neighbors uh and and hurt the neighborhood per se. There are four options. Staff isn't really recommending number four, which is just to deny the application outright, which would be fair to Mr. Ortiz. Number one, that's one of the ones that staff's recommending, to me doesn't work because all it says his he's got a personal vested rights case. So if he goes to sell the thing in five or ten years
then it's not gonna be the the the value of the the mobile home that he paid for likely will be gone. Um and so that doesn't really make 'em whole. So then you're really down to two options. Do you grant him a vested rights determination that applies to the property so that mobile homes can always be on this site, which the board may or may not want to do. if it doesn't want to do that because we feel it's contrary to the to the overall redevelopment of Moon Lake and all that, which I I'm sure you're gonna hear from the neighbors, they would prefer
that not to be the case. Then what you really need to do is take 'em up on take staff up on number two. Let's get a modular home in there. The ones that I've seen on the website, uh, and with the newer landscaping requirements and all that. Are hard to distinguish in many cases from site-built homes. Um and so I to me, number two is probably the best answer here for the commission, and our our clients fine with it. And I'd also add one other thing. Uh, you
know, we don't want to put Mr. Ortiz or his fiance, who's a local nurse, in a position where they're trying to be enriched by this in any way and they assure me they intend to live here for a long time. So they're okay of adding a condition to number two saying that they won't sell the house for say three years or something like that. It's not about them getting rich. They want to get what they thought they were getting all along. And it I I would at some point you all should look on the sales websites for these companies.
They only refer to a home. You can't tell whether you're buying a modular home or a manufactured. Home and the contract itself from them doesn't say either. So as a as a homeowner and a potential home buyer, it's could I view it as misleading. You can't tell what it is you're buying on some of these things. So anyway, like I said, number two with a modification is probably the best answer. I think that would probably be what the neighbors would want to see 'cause I don't think they want more mobile homes in
their neighborhood. Uh so I'm happy to answer any questions you have, but I really I think we oughta just let them chat and then I'll respond to anything that the neighbors might have if that's okay with the board.
This is a public hearing? Yes.
We have two people signed up to speak. Joan M. Thiel and Dora Well.
Yeah, I speak as well.
Yes sir, just sign you can go ahead and sign in or when they're done you you can come up.
I would like the mobile mobile home remote. Oh Joanfield [address removed].
Have you been sworn? Have you been sworn in? I don't know. Did you raise your hand and when everybody stood up, did you take
the oath?
You did? That's it. Thank you. Go ahead.
Um I have called the county every time a mobile home has been moved into this street. I have twice had your building department come out there and tell me it's moon lake, it's Marble House. I have fought it every single time. I have made phone calls. I've lived on that street for forty years. I was the third house on that street. What are my my vested rights? I bought in that area because it was zoned homes only. I don't want the mobile homes. That one that they said
is a is a manufactured home that's basically across the street. You don't even follow up with your building department. It's supposed to have driveways on it. That one's never had a driveway. It's a piece of crap. They keep putting in uh tenants that that just tear up. Up the yard. Why hasn't the building department enforced the fact that a driveway is supposed to be poured at that lot? You have totally ignored Boon Lakers. I have come and protested. You have had your building department people come out there and have call
the cops on me because I've told them this is not allowed to have mobile homes, and you've totally ignored me. At least some Somebody finally is listening to us. But we moved on that street because it was homes only. I was home number three. I don't want a mobile home there and I want you to actually remove and revoke all the rights you gave other people. I don't care if you pay for it all.
I'm over it. This has been a horrible thing 'cause you I have come down here every single time to your building department. Every time anybody pulled a permit and and your your building inspector was so rude to me and tell me your d this is bone leg, it's whatever.
It's not whatever. May I may I ask her a question,
Mr. Chair? No.
No.
Thank you. Next.
My name is Dora Wells. I live on [address removed]. I have been out there 40 plus years. My husband was the mailman for eighty pardon me? Have you been sworn? I have, sir. Thank you. Go ahead. Uh my husband was the mail carrier out there for 37 years. He looked it up. Homes only, and we're forty-eight feet above sea level. So what this is telling me is that not only the county is not doing their job, the people who are moving in
there are not doing their job. You need to look these things up. The one that they say is a module, the brown one, it's not. It is not on a foundation.
Thank you. Uh there's another another gentleman.
Name address for the record and if you've been sworn.
I have not been sworn.
Okay, if you'd like to raise your right hand, I'm gonna swear you in. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you are about to give is the truth, so help be God.
Yes.
Your name and address for the record.
My name is Matthew Lavarge of at [address removed]. in the neighborhood that's being affected. Um I do not believe you should allow any type of mobile home or modular home in this community. As everybody has stated, it is zoned R1. It is intended for homes only. S um what is it called? Um slab on grade homes. That's what it's intended for. Um Another chairperson said that it's kind of a mixed bag out there. That's
probably because of lax enforcement on the county's part. And now the taxpayer is gonna have to bear the burden of you guys failing. And I don't want to pay that. My taxes have already increased. My mortgage has already increased. I purchased this home two years ago. I love the neighborhood. It's a beautiful neighborhood. And renters and investors. Have been is destroying the neighborhood. It's an awesome neighborhood. The people here are salt of the earth. I absolutely love this neighborhood. And the county has done a
disservice to Moon Lake because of its history or whatever, what have you. We're trying to shed that history. There's good people here and I think you guys need to hear our voices. We don't want a mobile home. We don't want a modular home on Ballmar Road. The taxpayers should not bear the burden of any of this nonsense. What where is prestige? Why are they not culpable? Why are they not here? Where are their representatives? I'm sorry to Mr. Ortiz, but he should have done his due diligence
and understood that the neighborhood is R One is intended for Slab homes, not mobile homes, not modular homes. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone
else to speak to this? Major Starkey, you have a question for staff?
Well, um I have a couple questions. One I wanna I I wanna know Well I for staff I w I want research done on that road. I want to know What this lady was saying here because I drove down that road. Can you show my video? And I feel so bad for the people who have built some beautiful homes on that road and then they got a piece of crap next door. And so I it's just it's not fair. These these are probably their lo their wealth
is probably tied up in these homes and we're destroying it. So I am a hundred percent for not allowing this house in there. Um I do I d am wondering why prestige isn't You know. Maybe this guy's not going to be able to do I don't know who's talking to Prestige, but I do agree they're they're culpable. Um but I I have qu I have questions on why that what you called a Modular was it modular? I don't know.
Modular.
The one that you said was supposed to be oh you can't tell the difference? Yes, you can. That one was uh is on concrete blocks and where's the frickin' garage? These people all have garages and these other guys, if you allow that other kind of house in there They don't have garages, they don't have driveways. It's a total degradation of the neighborhood. And I don't think it's fair to Moon Lake. I want to see Moon Lake get revitalized, not go downwards. I wanted to see it go upwards. So I
um I don't know if you want to answer any of my questions where's
Well I'm I'm not sure I can. I might need Mr. Murphy to come up and answer some of these questions.
No, sir, we public comments.
Well yeah we said we're not done with public comment, so I don't you want to finish that first?
What do you ask him? Are you
wanting Mr. Murphy to answer that?
You want to finish public comment or have Mr. Murphy any questions?
It's up to the chair. He's running the meeting.
I'll let her ask questions. Okay,
so let's hear why why
we have we can have one more. If there's any if there's anybody who wants to speak, please line up. That way we can keep moving forward. Name address for the record and if you might be able to do it.
My name's Rick Williams. I live at [address removed], which is homes only also. And have
you been
sworn? No sir.
Okay, raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you are about to give is the truth, so help you God.
I do. Thank you. Welcome. I've lived here for f lived on that road for forty six years and we have other people in here that's lived in Moon Lake as long as I have, if not longer. My parents have been here since sixty eight. Do you want? One vote. Or do you want to do that? The other people in here is vote.
We
we're the ones
voting. We're we are the voters on this
issue. These people are gonna vote on you all.
Okay, I thought you
meant on
the
issue. All these people that represent us. Do you want his one Mr. Ortiz's vote and maybe his fiance's vote? Or do you want the rest of these people that live in Moon Lake and and want this to cease? I've seen it since I moved here. You know, you move one in and nothing can be done well, it's a modular home. Well modular homes are set on something not concrete. They may be screwed into the concrete but not mounted. So
Thank you.
Okay.
I have to let record show Commissioner Yeager's joining online. We can see you, Commissioner Yeager.
I haven't been sworn in.
Okay. Raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, so help you God.
I do. Uh William Dent, I live at [address removed], two blocks away. I actually walk my dog down that street twice a day. Uh I just wanna actually clear up something. On your video, you start the video on a different street. And on that video you'll see that there is a trailer. That is agricultural. Okay, so that's why that is there. As you continue down the street, you looked at the one on the left, which everybody's talked about, and they're saying it's a trailer, and somebody said, well, it was not
zoned that way, or when I checked, it wasn't zoned. If you look at the appraiser's office, I just which I just did, it is actually on the appraiser site saying it is a subtrailer. So that is that should never have happened. And without getting upset, like a lot of other people are doing, I'm gonna tell you that I've been forty-six years in the same house on Goldenrod, and throughout that time we have watched stuff go down the line that should never have occurred. All of the neighbors, Joe, who
lives across the street from me, he has called, Lisa has called. We don't get any response and I don't know why. You know, I understand we're usually told well it's Moon Lake that stuff happens out here. That's not that's not a good reason.
That's not right.
So I just wanted to put that on the record. Thank you.
Thanks, sir.
Okay, back to me. Um so can you JP I wanna say while you're coming up, can you show my video? Um and I I encountered a lot of residents walking their dogs there and they are not happy um at what has happened to their neighborhood and I think we bear a lot of responsibility. I I I think we're gonna have to fix it and you all are gonna have to come up with a plan. That's how I feel about it. Look at these houses. These are nice houses.
It needs a tree. Y'all need to plant some landscaping. I'll say that. But um Um
And you know, when I t when I talked to one of the neighbors on the street b next to this one, and that's the one that I mentioned this morning, he said we call code. But they say we have to put our name in and I don't wanna get a retaliation. So Therefore, people are afraid in their neighborhoods going down the drain. That's not okay. The government that's not what we're here for. We're here to protect these people and their investments. So I um no you can't you can't talk from up there. So
I We m we've made a mistake. We've made a lot of mistakes in here, and I think we've got to be on the path to fixing them. And for me And I'm sorry about the taxes that but I think we're gonna have We made a mistake. Prestige also made a mistake. Mm my first thought was that we gotta buy this guy's trailer, whatever it is, out Um, wondered if we could use C D B G D R money because we got a lot of people who need trailers. Um And
so can we repurpose that somewhere in the county? But the thing is, if you're gonna replace one for something else that looks just like that, but it's not that. How have we made the neighborhood better? So What What is Why don't we have In R one, you don't have to have a garage? I mean, I think that's a good thing What How do we protect the people who built
I I can't speak to the the zoning category R one. I just tell you that by statute the um modular homes are to be treated exactly like site built homes so they aren't eligible use in R one.
I think we need to fix that.
And so the qu the question came uh about that's a
state legislative issue.
Well I
think
you talked about it.
Then you got something on cement blocks next to it and they're considered equal in a neighborhood.
But it is what you just said, it is legal.
If it's on a slab?
It doesn't have to be on a slab. A peer foundation is equivalent a foundation for modular homes. So just like your cracker style homes are elevated, Pier does the same thing for modular home.
So to be clear, JP, so for this zoning. to put a modular home in under state law that is permissible today.
Both state law and your local or code of ordinance. Okay, and do we
require a driveway?
That I believe we do require a dot driveway. It depends on the when twelve eight eighty was put in. I'll I'll do some research on that.
Yeah and please if there's any other mobile homes on that street, I want I wanna know what happened.
Yeah, so our research there was no further mobile homes that they were all modulars.
Um
Wait, Model
is wrong. Your research is wrong, yes, we watched.
So we'll we'll report back to the commission on the couple that are there. But when when Mr. Goldstein was inquiring with us, our staff went back and researched those individual properties and found that they were modulars. Because we didn't want to have this problem. Could take come to this level as well. We're looking for okay. Do we have multiple modul or mobiles on that street and could not find any others? The only thing that was close in the in the whole zoning category were the two R1 MHs to the north.
Alright, but I did see there are homes there that don't have driveways. As a matter of fact, I saw one that I'm not sure has an ad Address in a mailbox. That's the one I mentioned this morning that the neighbor on the other street said it was a shed that turned into a house.
Yeah, bas based on that uh based on that complaint.
Um so we need we need that investigated. Yeah I'll send minimals
properly. This is a quasi-judicial hearing on a vested rights determination. Outbursts from the audience are not appropriate. This is also not a a code enforcement Issue for the neighborhood that should be taken up in a different format. Okay. Um
well I I I Okay, can I just interrupt the
other?
Yeah, so modified number two is the same.
So the applicant does get rebuttal and we need to give him rebuttal. Okay.
Thank you. Uh again, I'll try to be brief. One thing is humorous. I think you all will appreciate this. Uh Miss Theel, the first speaker, worked for our law firm for many years. So I've I've known Joan and didn't know didn't know she was on the street. But uh getting back to serious matters, because this is very serious for Mr. Ortiz because he's got a big mortgage payment that he's having to make. By the way, I think the volume's very high. of a sudden. Um but uh I I don't uh as I said before, I don't think when you
just talk about fundamental fairness, there's only two ways to go here. You either have to say the guy's got vested rights, but that's may not be great for the community, or we have to get a modular in there. And and this is the thing, Commissioner Starkey, modulars under state law Are treated exactly as site-built houses and they cannot be differentiated. And that's why our code in the ones where we, you know, uh manufactured or mobile homes are not allowed, they're not differentiated
between site-built and modular. They're treated as the same under state law. So to me, the only fair thing to do here, if you're weighing that public interest with the neighbors and You don't want more uh what we used to call mobile homes in there, you go for option two. And again, we're okay with limiting it saying he won't sell the thing for at least like three years.
Well
Mr. Starkey.
Um I don't know which option it is that The they're not up and I don't have them memorized. I don't think he's a should be allowed to put that house in there. Um I think we're gonna have to buy buy it out. The question is, do we go after prestige? Because they messed up too, so we're not the only ones on the hook here. Um I don't want to lose the fifth you you can't, sorry. I don't want to lose the fifty thousand. Um so if we buy and
we can certainly
use
that. The buyout option is option two. That is two. Okay, but I'm and certainly we can look at going after prestige. Um As far as the mobile home goes, I did ask, I spoke to Chuck Lane about keeping the mobile home. He did say that community development has no program where they could use it. The DR program does, but he said it would take a few months
for him to be able to repurpose that home and The problem with that is I'm not sure Mr. Ortiz has a few months t to wait.
No Prestige can take it they put it there, they can take it off and hold it for us until we find a place to put it. They're the ones who put it there, right?
I I can negotiate with the I don't know if they'll just take it and hold it, but I can see if w negotiate that with them. But um
I mean there's there's a cost of transport, that's the issue.
Because where is their culpability in messing up? Why are the taxpayers having to fix their mistake too? That that's that's the Commissioner Oakley has that.
Yes, Commissioner Oakley.
Yeah. On item two. Can we I thought I heard you say they could trade out the value of the mobile home against a modular home and put the modular
home.
Okay.
Prestige would pick up the existing mobile home and give a credit for it against the cost of the modular.
And that's fair.
Minus fifty thousand dollars.
It's a fifty-five thousand dollar credit. If we if we're gonna keep the mobile home, they're not gonna give us the fifty-five thousand dollar credit. So we'd have to pay fifty-five thousand more.
If we're gonna keep the mobile home.
But how much was the mobile home?
The about a originally new about a hundred and sixteen thousand.
Yeah. We're losing money if we don't keep the
But as I said previously, mobile homes depreciate.
Yeah. I'm we gotta pay up and And make it whole make it Mr Ortiz whole and have the right kinda home in this neighborhood.
I agree, but at least the other way we get something out of it, we get a mobile home that we can give to Part of our We could put it in a park. County.
Uh I mean I I just have concerns about taking over an asset, not knowing what I'm gonna do with it, where we're gonna put it. I I my recommendation would be
not take it. Isn't it brand new? It's nobody's ever been
more.
Well ultimately downloaded. So the I spoke to Chuck about it. He said he can't really market it as new because it it's not really new anymore.
Once they move it off their yard it's not new. That's understandable.
Which is why I depreciated already.
So we can't put we can't put it on a park anywhere.
You you could, but then you're effectively making the building department pay for A trailer for the parks department.
Yeah. Right. That comes to Penny
for Well and any additional costs that may be needed to either cite it, suit it, uh it's an open ended issue.
Has every department been checked with, Sheriff's Department, they're always eating miscellaneous. The jail, school district. I know they're a different budget, but I mean it's all public money anyway. Same definition we we take it. It comes from the taxpayer so I don't it doesn't bother me whether it's a park's definition or the building department's definition. To me it's all all the same money. So I I can't imagine that there's not a department somewhere or an outfit
that couldn't use this
I mean the best deal is when you buy a car is one that was driven off the lot for a day or two and you get
I
mean
My guess is that you probably could find a user for it. The two issues are one is that the building department's gonna have to pay fifty five thousand more
And I'll let J B comment on that. Um and the other is that we're gonna have to find a place to put it. I don't know if prestige is gonna be willing to just hold it. We'll have to figure that out.
Well we got plenty of space to store it.
Mr. Yeager.
Yeah, uh don't we own property out in Moon Lake? Where We could um hold the mobile home.
I I don't know the answer to that question.
We do have lots in Moon Lake. We
have properties. If the board's desire we'll find spot to to to store it. Uh just it's putting it back into use is my concern, but
But if the board's direction is that it's option two but we keep the mobile home and we'll just figure it out how we're gonna do it. It'll just cost us fifty five thousand more it'll cost the building apartment fifty five thousand
for it. The other way we have nothing.
If that's the board's direction, we'll find a way to implement it.
Commissioner Oakley. Fact of it is on item two, when you replace it with the modular home, have it put it, have them take that and give us the credit toward the modular home, make Mr. Ortiz whole. and uh go forward with business.
We don't get the don't save a house. Don't worry about where it's going next week. You're just opening up a can of worms. It's gonna cost you more money down the road. And we don't need to be in that process. We're in here to make sure things are followed by the rules. Our staff member made a mistake. We're going to pay up for our mistake and make Mr. Ortiz whole and put the module in there like it should be. Um which was allowed on that that zone lot.
Mr Starkey.
Why don't we let the administrator chew on Our idea of finding a place for it And we could make it in a motion that we do one or the other once he's investigated if we can make a good use for it.
Commissioner Yeah,
but maybe there's a good place for it.
Commissioner Yeager, are you on the line here? Yeah. Give any opinion on keep it or let it go.
Honestly it doesn't it doesn't matter to me I either way. I could go either way with it. I think if we keep it I you know, I'm sure we could find a use for it somewhere. Um it is our mistake and you know, we have to make it right for Mr Ortiz and his wife. So um either way, whatever at the boards will, keep it or let it go.
Yeah, I want to be clear, it's not just use. I need to if we're gonna go that route, I need to know that there's a department that can move it off the site fairly quickly too. I I don't know if prestige is gonna just voluntarily move it for us.
Well as an attorney, do they have any I don't
I don't know? But you're asking me to basically sue them. Um if you if you're directing me to sue them to get them to force them to do it, I can do that. that but I it's not something I can just demand I mean I I can't just go out and get a court order demanding they do that. It's not something I can just run out and go get. They have not volunteered to do that.
Right.
But um
But then that's that's that much more time than Mr. Mortiz will be waiting right for us.
I I still like I don't wanna throw it all out the window, so I still I would make a motion that we uh first work to find a solution to keep the mobile home and see if there's any department in the county or the sheriff's office that needs it or that could use it. And and and that it could be moved. or held quickly. Otherwise we go to the regular option two, which is just replace. But I'd first like to take a swing to see if we don't just
throw all of that out the window. That's
one motion. Well that's that's not Doable. We have to make it it could potentially be added to one of the
You're s you're she you're suggesting alternative two with that modification.
With the modification. So Commissioner Oakley Starkey's motion is to uh is for option two. with the three years to not sell the property per
No, never. No. No.
I'll be I'll be quite I don't know the I know that Mr. Hobby offered that. I'm not sure the benefit of that restriction to be honest. I mean
Wait, aren't we putting a legal home on there?
You are. I'm not sure what the benefit is of saying that they have to live in it for three years.
If that's a legal house on that street, sadly, then we we can't do that.
Then we'll move remove that from mo from Commissioner Starkey's motion. So Commissioner Starkey's motion is option number two with finding a potential reuse for the structure that's currently on the site.
And if that cannot be found in a timely manner.
So
you're not
going to use that as a credit, you know. Then
we l no, we lose. We oh, then we can use it as a credit, yeah.
I will second um Commissioner Starkey's motion.
We have a motion and a second.
If I could just add to that, can we just add timely matters say within we could get it moved in the next thirty days? Because if it's gonna take longer than that, it's gonna we're gonna have to start paying more of Mr Ortiz's rent.
But didn't I see he has a three thousand dollar penalty if he doesn't stay in that house for his
He has a three he he had to terminate his lease, an existing lease, he's has to pay a three thousand dollar penalty. But it's gonna take four to six months to get a new modular in there. If we're dil if we can't get the mobile home off, it's gonna delay Prestige's ability to get the modular built. So if it's gonna take us longer than say thirty days to get the mobile home off of there At some point it's going to delay Mr. Prestige's ability to get the modular
in there.
Well, uh are you saying they still have to build that modular if they if they are
to manufacture it, but Okay,
then we have some time if they still have to manufacture it. So we're at a case.
We have a motion and a second. We've had thirty days, a thirty day week. up to the motion one more commissioner oakley
just one thing if you're not using that home as a credit you're not going to get that credit toward that modular home. So then you're gonna be paying more money for a modular home to go on that site because you're holding back what you were going to get credit for before by pulling that local home off to the side.
But if we have a use for it,
that doesn't make sense to do that. It's it's not a clean, straight or
we made a motion on the second.
Well I know you have, but you hadn't voted in with We've had ties.
I mean y'all can vote that way if you want to. I'm not voting for that. I tell you. It's gonna cost us money. More money than more than a lot of people.
Well this is seem to me more of a humanitarian vote. vote today um right now so we have a motion to say this is not a roll call it is I think it's
it is because Commissioner Yeager's online clerk
you please call the roll
district one commissioner oakley
no
district two commissioner Weightman
aye
district three commissioner starkey aye district four commissioner yeager
Commissioner District Five, Commissioner Yeah Chairman Mariano.
Not here. Motion passes three to one. Um thank you. Thank you everybody. Mr. Ortiz is it Mr Ortiz here? Thank you very much. He's here.
Yeah.
Thank you for being patient with us. We'll do what we can to appreciate.
Make sure and put a driveway in.
No more questions. All right. ain't gonna
get the driveways
in they
haven't enforced.