First Workshop Dedicated To The Extraordinary Circumstances Necessitating The Need For The Mobility Fee Increase To Exceed The Phase-In Limitations In Sections 163.31801(6)(b), (d), And (d), Florida Statutes

1:51:58Item P seven. I believe we're on mobility fees now. You will be sitting as a local planning agency for this item. It's PDE 260525. This is the first workshop dedicated to the extraordinary circumstances necessitating the need for the mobility fee increase to exceed the phase and limitations in sections 163.318016, excuse me, section six. B, D, and D,

1:52:28Florida statutes, uh staff will provide a presentation.

1:52:36Good afternoon. I hope so. Mm-hmm. Nick Uren, County Engineer. So first let me just say what a remarkable group of people you are.

1:52:52And I'm sure you're worn out. Uh I'll do this as quickly as I can.

1:52:56Do it again in two weeks.

1:52:58One uh one quick comment. The title should be actually referencing paragraphs B, C, and D. Of statute. I think it it erroneously said B, D, and D. So just interpret that as alphabet would suggest. That should have been a C in between the B and the D.

1:53:18Great, thank you.

1:53:21Um the agenda is very quick for this presentation. We're going to cover the statutory limitations on mobility fee increases. We're going to talk about the extraordinary circumstances that are confronting Pasco County that justify increasing our mobility fees above the statutory limits. And then we're gonna ask you to take public comment and hear your discussion. This is one of two items. This is not an action item. This is a discussion item. The second item on your agenda regarding mobility fees will be the action item. As

1:53:52far as the mobility fee limits go in state law, you are required to justify your increase based on a study. We've done that. And that studies attached in your packet, you are limited to increases that are less than twenty-five percent of your existing fee being implemented over a two-year period. We have some of those and so we're complying with that criteria. If you would like to increase the fee amount for any land uses in your schedule between 25 and 50 percent, you're supposed

1:54:23to do it over four equal annual installments. We're proposing to do it over two. And if you um by statute you're not permitted unless you have extraordinary circumstances to increase any of your fees above 50%. We have some fee increases that are proposed above 50%, so we're here to tell you what those extraordinary circumstances are that have led us to present this information to you. Also, statute says you can only increase fees once every four years. We haven't done it for

1:54:53at least four years, and so we're good. Local government can exceed the above limits if we have a recent fee study that justifies these extraordinary circumstances. If we hold two public workshops devoted specifically to these extraordinary circumstances, so you happen to be workshop number one. and if the fee increases are approved by the governing body by unanimous vote. And then the fee increases must be implemented in at least two equal annual

1:55:23installments if they are approved in in excess of the statutory limits, and we are proposing to do that with the schedule in front of you. Okay, on to our extraordinary circumstances. We have four to share with you. Extraordinary circumstance number one is we're growing a lot faster than our last fee study said we were going to. Last time we thought we were going to add about 230,000 people. Now we're predicting to add 330,000 people from this point forward to get us up into that mystical seven figure total as Pasco

1:55:54County population. That means that we need to build a lot more roads to accommodate those people.

1:56:02Yeah, when when are we predicted to be at a million?

1:56:05Uh twenty fifty. So the comp plan updates that you are so rigorously investing in reviewing are are planning for a population of just over a million people in the next twenty four years.

1:56:22In addition to that, the people who are coming here are also taking more trips. So every so often, the Institute of Transportation Engineers publishes an update on the estimated trip rates for various land uses. They've recently published such an update, and many of the uses that we commonly see here in Pasco County. They said those types of uses generate more trips than the last study that we published said they would. So not only are we having more people come They're actually traveling more.

1:56:51Can you give us an example of some of those land uses?

1:56:58I don't have those uses memorized. I apologize. That's probably the one item that I'm not as conversant in. But I do have Bill Oliver here with me, who is our mobility fee consultant, and if he wants to take that question, I'll haphily let him, or if you'll let us do a little bit of research, we'll we'll try and have an answer. Um the third big extraordinary circumstance is that roads just cost more to build. it's it's the impact of inflation and it's the impact of um of time that the unit

1:57:28prices for constructing every piece of infrastructure that we build to accommodate growth has gone up. So it's not that we're building more, it's that every cubic yard of concrete every cubic yard of asphalt that we're laying, we're paying more per per unit to deploy those materials and build the facilities that are needed for our community. Uh and and that those costs have gone up by about 31% from just the last four years, the the assumptions that went into our study in 2021. Oh and I should mention I've

1:57:59got a couple of cute little animations here. That's why I was I was thinking about that. So where uh the rapid population goes, I I highlighted the Sun Lake Boulevard corridor. This is near um Suncoast Parkway in Angeline. The first picture here is where we were just five years ago. And that this picture here says this is where we are today. The 2026 aerial photo, that's how much of that land has been carved up for development, subdivided into lots, and is being constructed as housing. This is one of our rapidly growing areas. And then I

1:58:29also wanted to mention when you get into the infrastructure costs, this is the overpassed Old Pasco Road intersection. That's what it looked like three years ago, and that's what we're trying to make it look like right now. We've got the existing lanes in the southbound direction on the left side of your screen. We're building the northbound lanes to make it an ultimate four-lane road. And it just costs a lot of money. And then our last component is mobility fees are a a piece of the puzzle to pay for our overall transportation

1:59:00infrastructure. We also use local, state, and federal gas taxes. We also use portion of property taxes in the form of tax increment funding. And we also use um What am I leaving out? Sales tax. Penny for Pasco sales tax. the portion of the total amount of our of our projected need that was comprised of state and federal uh gas taxes in twenty twenty one was thirty-eight percent. In this updated fee study, that's only paying for eleven percent of

1:59:30our need. And that means that we need more resources from those other sources in order to properly fund the overall anticipated need for those 330,000 additional people. So here's my extraordinary summary. We ought to increase mobility fees because more people are coming to Pasco. They're traveling more. They want to travel on roads that cost more to build and we have less other revenue to pay for them. We're asking you to accept public comment because this is per statute

2:00:00a public workshop. And then we're happy to hear any. uh feedback discussion you have again with the understanding that the next item on the agenda is going to be the um actual proposed fee schedules and amendments to the land development code where we're asking you to sit and determine account plan consistency.

2:00:21Um, I apologize because I have my report on my laptop, but my laptop batteries just died. But the information about where the trip generation rates, uh percent new trips, the the travel generating parameters uh is summarized in a table that's in appendix A of the technical report that you have with you. Some rates went down, some rates went up. So it's it's a mixed bag there.

2:00:51The overall rate, you know, when you add 'em all up, how much did it go up?

2:00:57Um you know the I I wouldn't say it's it probably across the board not much. Um it's just more like individual land uses. Some went down, some went up, but across the board about the same, but you know, the the way the statute's written, if any one fee bumps up by more than fifty percent, you're there. Um And in some cases uh uh in in particular in the industrial category warehouse distribution, parcel fulfillment.

2:01:28Uh previously those were a hundred percent subsidized, zero you they paid zero fee. The Board of County Commissioners gave us direction, uh don't give them a completely free ride, charge them half the fee. So there's an increase of from a zero fee to whatever the dollar amount turned out to be, which is an infinite increase. So just to cover our bases and Mm-hmm. keep ourselves as clean as we could. We're here for it on that over fifty percent.

2:01:58Okay. Yeah. How long? Does it take the county?

2:02:08Two Design, permit, and construct a roadway.

2:02:17Three years if uh we don't need right-of-five if we do. Five if you

2:02:22need right

2:02:22away. Yeah. From the point where we issue notice to proceed to the design consultant to the point where we start constructing. Yeah. Well let me let me get a couple things.

2:02:31Not counting time of construction.

2:02:33Street. Yeah, and then that and then we have a construction schedule

2:02:35to

2:02:36finish.

2:02:36That's right. When do we collect mobility fees?

2:02:41At the issuance of a certificate of occupancy.

2:02:44So when they get a certificate of occupancy, then someone's now moved in this home and they're driving on the road. That's right. So I'm collecting the money. To build the new road. after the traffic's already on the road.

2:03:03All of our revenue streams come after the demand has occurred. Okay.

2:03:07What uh

2:03:07yes, mobility fees included. Well it didn't

2:03:09used

2:03:10to, but

2:03:14Yeah.

2:03:16So I I just want to make sure I got this right. So we collect the money after the traffic's on the road. Then it takes us five years. To design and permit and go construct a road. All well.

2:03:33inflation is causing the cost of that road to go higher and higher and higher and higher and higher.

2:03:41Right? All true. Okay. So when we raise the impact fee How are we addressing that? Basic problem. Because the thing what I see here is this. This is to me is almost insanity. Insanity is when we do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result. Okay, and how long has the mobility fee system been in place? David.

2:04:11Twenty thir twenty eleven starter I think.

2:04:14Okay, so this is fifteen years now? All right. So in fifteen years We've been doing these periodic increases. And now we want to do another increase. And what makes us think that we're going to get any roadways, any Better, faster, cheaper than the way we did before. Oh,

2:04:35I'm not saying that I this is gonna enable us to do it better or faster. I'm just asking for this increase because if I don't get it, we will lose ground. We're just trying to I think we've maintained

2:04:47the point is we lost the ground the day we let We collected the fee when the tra the day the traffic got on the road.

2:04:57I think what I'm saying is we need another system. And I'm glad that's the first time.

2:05:04Yeah. Yeah. This is actually the twentieth anniversary of Senate Bill three sixty from the legislative session in two thousand six when we lost our ability to say

2:05:14no to development.

2:05:19Structure A Wants to go out in the middle of the county where there's no road, no water, no sewer. And he wants to build five thousand acres of houses. And they say, huh, concurrency, you gotta build this, you gotta you gotta build this road, you gotta extend the water and sewer out there, and you gotta do it on your dime, and you need to do it before you build this development. And he did. And then Rancher B, his next door neighbor, came out. They said, Oh, gotta look at concurrency. Guy says, Hey, no problem. Already a six

2:05:49lane highway here, already a brand new water and sewer line, and Rancher B doesn't have to pay a thing. So that was an unfair system. So we created this mobility fee system. Two. address the patent unfairness of concurrency. But the problem is I don't think anybody thought about this. That the price of the road doesn't go down Well we're in the design and construction and right-of-way acquisition process. And then when we print

2:06:19trillions of dollars for

2:06:24fake diseases. Um

2:06:28And dilute our money even further, then I don't know how we expect to build roads. But Maybe we should take this opportunity to assemble a working group of professionals like Ali over there and his compatriot.

2:06:46Mr. Razor and Mr. Henry. And stakeholders. And we need to fix a system that gets roads. Because I go on Facebook every night And there are hundreds of thousands of people in this county that are furious. That they have to sit in traffic. Every day. because we don't have a system that can get them the roads.

2:07:13Yeah.

2:07:17Yeah.

2:07:20How How long, Jamie? Since you're in this business, like me. Does it take someone to plan a project, go through the MPUD process, get the preliminary development plan approval? A construction plan approval, all the other agency permits, and then initiate construction. How long before we actually break ground are we working on these projects?

2:07:49We gotta get zoning.

2:07:51Yeah. Could be two, three, four years.

2:07:53Three to five three to four years.

2:07:55Okay. So those projects were pro formaed. Based on an impact fee. Right? So what do we think is going to happen to these projects that were pro forma based on the impact fee schedule today and now Right as I'm about to come break ground on this project I announced that I'm raising the impact fees by more than 50%. What do you think happens to that project? Well if

2:08:25the project dies then how many impact fees do we collect?

2:08:30Mm.

2:08:31No?

2:08:34Okay. Although you have, in theory, less impact too. And you know, up until a few weeks ago in this country, not just Pasco County, but even here in Pasco County, we were concerned about Affordability, affordability, affordability, affordability, affordability. Well who do you think pays these fees? How do we make housing more affordable by jacking up all the fees? for a system that hasn't been able to produce roads, and I'm not blaming anybody in this room. None of these people were here. Mr. Oliver

2:09:04may have been around as a consultant, but Nick wasn't here, and Terry wasn't here. And Ollie, you're here, you're at fault. It was Ali's fault. Uh

2:09:16But We got a system that doesn't work.

2:09:23What I want to know is what are we doing to fix the system? or attempting to do to fix the system. And have we given any consideration to how such a dramatic rapid increase in the rate affects projects in the pipeline, which is exactly why the legislature was wise to spread that out over a longer period of time because they recognize the lead time that happens for

2:09:53these projects.

2:09:59And I can tell you right now I've Shown the proposed impact fee increase schedule to some of my clients. Who said that's it? They're gonna throw in the towel. So Those are impact fee you're actually not gonna I'm sorry, mobility fees. you're actually not gonna get.

2:10:23You gotta decide whether you wanna get something or you wanna get nothing.

2:10:34That's all. I guess Bill, I've got a Bill, I've got a couple of questions for you. I mean, you you work and you do this stuff for not just Pasco County. I mean, what are you seeing in other county are other counties doing similar Thanks.

2:10:48They they they are. Um not n you know, th th there's a mixed bag. Um some communities aren't terribly cognizant and not too interested in developing the network. Other communities are and those that are are keeping up with call systems.

2:11:08Hillsburg would be a better comparison because Penelope

2:11:11has no meaningful development. I agree. Don't disagree, but and our fees compare to Hillsborough's how. I should

2:11:19mention that. I should mention two things I neglected to say. First, um we did a oh because when we were doing the study, we recognized the significance of the impact that these increased fees would have on the development community in Pasco. And so we did a board workshop in November to get their feedback on the magnitude of fee increase that they would be willing to support. And that's how we generated the the schedules that are in your agenda today. That was based on board direction to go that far and not farther. One aspect of that board direction was based on

2:11:50the comparison of other high growth counties in um in the Tampa Bay and Central Florida area. in order to keep it. parity with um those counties. And so Osceola, Hillsboro, uh Orange County were all presented and um and we're in line with the fees that those communities are charging.

2:12:10Yeah. What what kind of feedback did you guys have from stakeholders like the T B BA and other types of organizations?

2:12:18Uh generally the the answer is acceptance. Um I mean, should they want would if we give 'em input opportunities, then they say well we would like lower fees. If you T B B A acknowledgement that the costs I mean they see the same costs that we do. They they know that they're ending I mean one of the big distinctions that David Goldstein and I have talked about is that development communities are ending up with what are considered excess fee credits. because they are spending more to build roads than their mobility fees are generating

2:12:49in revenue to offset those road costs. Reason is we're not charging an adequate magnitude of mobility fee. Because Roads have gone up in price. We're we're we're we're allowing them to generate these excess credits because we're not charging them appropriately to mitigate their impacts.

2:13:07And further the mobility fee doesn't cover the full cost of the program. Mobility fees only pay for about twenty-five to thirty percent of those costs.

2:13:17Well well I was gonna ask that kind of as a not maybe there's not a a pure answer to this, but obviously w we're looking at significant increases to mobility fees, which is uh twenty five percent of that cost, but there's other components that make up and fund those th they're in your chart there. I mean, take the gas tax for example. Um I mean, obviously gas tax wouldn't look at a fifty percent increase to generate the same amount of revenue. Yet all those people, I mean, those are all the same people that are using all these roads that are costing

2:13:47more money to build. So I mean and why are they not sharing the cost? And how much

2:13:51does the assistance

2:13:53we've maxed maxed out? We've maxed out our local option gas tax tax. So let me ask this. Last time we just I'm gonna give you a little history on the gas tax. So In 20, I think it was in 2014, the first time we looked at our mobility fee, we intentionally avoided an increase in the fee by raising the second local option gas time. So we already pulled that lever to avoid an increase once, but we can't pull it again because we've maxed it out. Pl plus they're

2:14:23plus they're paying through sa the sales tax commitment to transportation. And through property tax increment as well.

2:14:30So all the other options have been looked at. I mean this is la last resort.

2:14:34The only other lever that is available that arguably is available is the tax increment, but that's not really available because the legislature is as you know going after our sales uh our property tax revenue. I mean it's it's not something that we can realistically allocate more money

2:14:59to. Should we charge a tax to people who drive electric vehicles and don't pay the gas tax?

2:15:06You can,

2:15:06but I'm not sure there's enough electric vehicles on the road to Amazon's got a giant of 'em. They like to run up and down my residential street twenty times a day.

2:15:16I mean the legislature has floated a proposal about adding an additional registration fee for electric vehicles, but I don't think it's enough to money to make up the deficit we're talking about.

2:15:29What what's attributable to that um I guess it looks like it's uh about a sixty, seventy percent decrease in this federal funding. Is that all because of the current administration? Is it what's

2:15:44The s the source of that number is the advice that the Florida D OT provides to your MPO relative to the magnitude of state and federal funding Pasco County can expect. over the horizon of that plan. Um when we did the last study, uh they had said you can expect more money. Matter of fact they went and they built State Road 52, you know, made they've they've they have uh they've built some significant roads, US 41 and so forth.

2:16:14But this time around that guidance was you're not gonna be getting as much we don't think you're gonna be getting as much money over the next twenty-five years from uh from the state and feds where we're gonna spend the state and federal money elsewhere. So Didn't really dig into that. The state statute says you gotta follow your adopted plan. That was the adopted plan, so Yeah.

2:16:39They rely on gas tax and gas tax because cars are b are more fuel efficient. It's kind of a declining revenue source. I mean even for the

2:16:50city in front of our unless you drive by the gas today.

2:16:55No, because the tax is still the same.

2:17:03Yeah. Federal gas tax is eighteen point three cents per gallon. It has been since nineteen eighties. The state gas tax is the one portion of it, there's seven cents per gallon that are indexed to inflation. The rest of it, the other twenty uh eighteen cents of state gas tax is also flattened.

2:17:19And only a fraction goes to capital.

2:17:21Yeah. Yeah, the other the other component of revenue at the state level is the dock stamps, which is like a state it's it's similar to a state impact fee. It's the recording on on the real estate transactions.

2:17:41So I know we're you've bet you've already had a long day. I'm I'm happy to let you discuss as long as you like, but we do have one other item on the mobility fees to cover.

2:17:48Yeah, I don't know, Mr. Moody, if you wanted a response to the Technically he needs to ask for public comment.

2:18:10We know we have a system that is not producing the roads in time that we need them. The public is angry. I'm not against funding roads. The public wants the roads. What I'm looking for is

2:18:33We recognize the unfairness of concurrency We tried this experiment we call mobility fees. We're now 15 plus years into it. We haven't got any better results.

2:18:50And what I'd like to see. is us attempt to sit down with a big brain trust of people. I don't have the answers and try to come up with something Better.

2:19:04Well, John, you know, I think that I think that's probably the best idea that I've heard, honestly, because If we uh I think if you ha if we have a problem and we identify the problem Let's see if we can identify a way to fix the problem, not keeping keep doing the same thing again. We're just kicking the camera.

2:19:35go where it's supposed to go and fund what it's supposed to find. Let's we got a lot of smart people around here that that can maybe come up with some ideas and I certainly think that's a useful exercise.

2:19:53Uh to Commissioner Moody's point, I uh a handful of things that we're already doing. We are aggressively pursuing both design build contracts and expedited procurement processes to get projects from design to construction contract.

2:20:07More

2:20:08quickly.

2:20:08Right. What I'm trying to figure out is We need to figure out how to get the dollars in your hands. If it take I understand why it takes so long to design and construct a road.

2:20:21So I've three. Let me let me give you the other two, because I think I will touch your point.

2:20:26And but the cost while you do that, while this is going on, the cost of that road is going up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up. Okay. We've gotta be able to get the funds to you. Quicker. You know, to the day you break ground on the MPUD, it's probably another year before you're collecting revenue on the first house, and you haven't collected all the revenue out of that MPUD if they got a three or four or five year build-out time in the MPUD. There's gotta be a way to get the funds

2:20:56into the system faster. to try to I'm not sure we can ever outrun the inflationary aspect of building a road, but at least try to catch up to it?

2:21:08Slow it short. Let me.

2:21:12Yeah, so two other items we're doing. One is um we're aggressively working with developers. So if they're going out there and I think Old Pasco is a good example. We've got a project just north of um Overpass Road on Old Pasco Road that's gonna be building turn lanes on the existing two lane section. And we say that's a throwaway to improvement. Why why are we wasting money on that? Let's just put your money toward the four lane widening cost We'll backfill the difference and we'll get that project constructed at the time that your development is is coming online instead of waiting and building it in arrears.

2:21:43We have the resources to do that in that case, and that's that's why we were able to offer that. But that's another way we can get projects to construction a little more quickly is by using our private sector partners. And third one is the conversations that we're having within villages of Pasadena Hills, where we recognize that we don't have cash, but we need roads. We will eventually, pursuant to our financial plan, have the resources to afford all of the roads in that area. Well in order to put the money in our hands now and put the product on the road on the street When it's necessary, we're

2:22:13gonna pursue a bond. What we're gonna see if we can't put some of that future revenue in our hands right now so that we can construct the improvements as the needs are coming online and not afterward. Th those are our best three initiatives and we're using all three of those um in various degrees.

2:22:29Anything wrong with any of those things, they're great. Keep doing it. What I'm referring to is this whole system of collecting the fees. That's all.

2:22:39Well I think part of that is what you were talking about is pursuing bonds where you get the you get the money up front. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that that that's great. Yeah. I like the idea.

2:22:49But part of number two that Nick mentioned though is that the developers that build the roads for credits They're building the roads before they would ever expend the fee before they'd ever pay us the fees. So they are effectively getting the road on the ground before they would ever pay us the fees at CO. So they are building the infrastructure in advance and they're basically waiting on they're not really realizing the credits until much later. Mm-hmm. So it is a way of getting

2:23:20the infrastructure done sooner, but to Nick's point he made earlier, they're reluctant to do it if they can't absorb all of their credits, which is why the fees need to be higher because they don't want to do it if they can't absorb all their credits. Mm-hmm. I mean I realize you aren't on the room you all aren't in the room with Nick and I when we're negotiating these forty million dollar deals on these roads, but they don't want to build a road if they can't absorb twenty million dollars of their credits. Makes sense.

2:23:50Mm-hmm.

2:23:50Yeah.

2:23:54Mr. Chairman I think you were asked if you were gonna open public If I'm what?

2:24:00Oh yeah, yeah.

2:24:01Yes.

2:24:01Do we have any public comment?

2:24:05Sir, are you back there in the back in the black shirt?

2:24:10I guess not.

2:24:13I guess no public comment. Want to read the next item?

2:24:18I know, but

2:24:18do you do you want to read it? Okay.