PDD-230307 built-to-rent single-family platting policy

1:12:41Now we have regular items and we have a presentation on platted build to rent developments.

1:12:54Well that's Adam Thomas Levin. I w I want to say Adam, that's our team uh that was just out with us at seven o'clock this morning, uh to run the west side of the county. Gentlemen, thank you and hope you can help us out with source development. Thank you.

1:13:13Good morning, Commissioner. Sally Sherman, Deputy County Administrator. Oh Assistant County Administrator for Development Services. I'm here this morning to present to you planning and development item PDD 230307.

1:13:37As you recall, back in January this year, the board provided direction to staff to bring back a policy to develop some guidelines as it relates to certain projects, what they deemed as built-to-rent multifamily development. This is a new form of development that is happening with multifamily development. Family developments all across the state of Florida, and then my research is happening all across the United States. Housing

1:14:08types for these built-to-rent developments include your destructed, multifamily, horizontal apartments, cottages, townhouses, duplex, and even some single family detached. Yeah. Unplugged detached single family units. Before I go any further, I want to thank a number of people, Nictorios Pitos, our planning director, a group of stakeholders

1:14:39that met with us on a regular basis to discuss this matter, as well as meeting with each of you. This has been a journey of learning about this new type of product that is Coming online. And um so it's with that feedback that um this memo has been it's being brought for um I want to also say that this memo represents just one portion or one step in addressing on

1:15:09this matter, knowing that there's more to come. The more that we looked into it, the more we learned and understood, especially with working with those stakeholders that are involved. So I'm going to touch on that a little bit later, letting you know other things that will be coming down the path. So, based on this wonderful journey that we've taken, Mr. Pitos developed Planning Policy Memo 16 that's going to address the bill to rent housing utilizing your typical single-family

1:15:40neighborhood design. It's going to also look at the architectural and monotony controls, the same that we put in our planning memo. Number ten that was approved back in March of 2022. And also it's going to look at the intent for connectivity, which is very important to uh the Commission and to our community. The first part of the um Platte bill to rent is We're

1:16:10looking at those housing that is your typical single family residential development and both those neighborhoods that are designed with driveways and um attached and detached garages that will be um they they look like develop single family residential developments and at the the conclusion of weeks and weeks of discussion those projects will be required to be platted as single family residential conventional developments. And

1:16:40I think that's key for everyone to understand. They will be platted. Then we're going to be looking at the architectural controls associated with and monotony associated with those developments. Like I said, we're going to continue the architectural standards that we had in that March of 22 agenda, and also that's going to be planned. looking at the placement of where the structures are going and variations in the architectural features,

1:17:11at least three for each of the structures. Also, an important part of this is going to be looking at the conditions of approvals and deed restrictions for homeowners associations and maintenance agreements. During the construction of these projects, the they will be required to provide us with quarterly reports showing how they're meeting our architectural obligations and design standards associated

1:17:41with these developments. And since these built-to-rent products, most of them will be under one single ownership. And they may transition at some point to being able to be sold off as individual products. So one of the important parts of this process is to include provisions where they're going to be required to provide ongoing enforcement through a homeowners association or through a property maintenance growth group.

1:18:11And again, that's going to ensure the loan. long-term maintenance of those developments.

1:18:18Another important part that our commission continues to remind us and look out and help us look out for is connectivity, and that's going to allow the interconnection between the surrounding areas and other neighborhoods, trails, et cetera, making sure that that is in place. And uh we're also going to be looking at applicability where this applies to your MPUDs, your uh uh

1:18:48Euclidean rezoning and your conditional uses. Now I want to make sure you understand because this is one of the little things that we're running into as you continue to give us direction and we're trying to implement that direction We've got projects coming through that have been in the pike for a long time. So we wanted to make sure that the board considers that this uh memo applies to all those only applications that have

1:19:18not been heard by the Planning Commission or the OPH and the Policy Planning Commission. So we'll note that so if there's some concerns that can be brought up or if you'd like to address it at this time if you have any concerns or if you'd like me to continue, Chair.

1:19:37Oh uh sorry. Yeah, I I lived in one of these developments while I was waiting on my house being built. Um

1:19:47They can they really are not run very well. They have no parking, no extra parking. They're parking on streets. No avail availability of of going in and out without everybody using the center of the road because they allow parking on both sides. They have no HOA whatsoever. They have no manager on site. So there's no real controls other than the fact that it seems like the managing company that manages it on phone, all they can tell you is it's not me, you

1:20:17need to call another number. And that's all you usually get. And you y they they assign a manager to it but you can never get that person on the phone. So these are not operated very well. Mm Personally, I would never go in one or want anybody actually live in one of these again the the way that one was treated. That's uh the one there on Fort King, the states of Fort King. And it's just not run very well. That's pretty pretty bad. And I understand it's all on one lot. So

1:20:47I don't know what's gonna happen in the say twenty years when you got 'em on one lot, how do you separate 'em to uh sell out individual lots without platting them. So if you don't plat them up front, then you've got an issue down the road of how do you Take care of these products, sell them out to individuals that will take care of them. and things of that nature. So it there's a lot of uh Things that are hidden that you don't you don't see and there's no H O A. So There's no one

1:21:17to to um cover the own street parking and things of that nature. There's no rules, so

1:21:24And keep in mind this is saying they will have to be platted. before they can develop.

1:21:30Okay. Commissioner Weightman.

1:21:33I just want to follow up on something that you said. Well I hadn't wanted to ask the commissioner a question on what he just said.

1:21:39All

1:21:39right,

1:21:39so same thing.

1:21:40So um so do you l you live in a built to rent? community? I

1:21:44did, yes.

1:21:45Okay, you did. So th I think you bring up a really interesting point that You know, w we say these are like deconstructed apartments. But apartments have a leasing office. And uh you know, they have they have a leasing office and there's no one on site. And I'm wondering if we should require

1:22:06On site.

1:22:08Yeah.

1:22:08Because then you have no one to go to if it's a rental community. Yeah. And that's a very good thing. Because you need to have someone Yeah, I I think that's the same thing.

1:22:21had the board approved this particular project and the county And now it belongs to the city of Dade City. But they their taking on those issues. Yeah, I don't um I don't think I didn't Look at that as well. like I'm looking at it today, but I never lived in one so Um I was there for a little over a year and it it's just so confusing, especially without a manager on site or one that you can get a hold of. Just to ask a simpler question. Yeah.

1:22:52I'm glad you picked up on that. Mr. Wayne.

1:22:57I think we have to do that. Slides are is this conclude your presentation? I was gonna say uh let's let's roll through. Obviously, this is something we brought forth and we have A whole bunch of commentary around this so I don't What's how to be derailed from

1:23:14Um so I'll wait until she's done.

1:23:17Okay.

1:23:21Okay. Um with that said, uh the next portion of is uh we're gonna do a six month evaluation. That's what we've been doing on these um Memos so that we take we learn if there's something we need to go in and make some minor adjustments that we don't feel deviate substantially from what the board direction has been, we will make those, but if we find that they are substantive changes that we need to bring back to the board, we will bring it back. next as really

1:23:52um getting to the conclusion um and really again the key on this is that These are single family detached bill to rent products and not multifamily products. They will be required to plat as single family developments. When you have a large development that is just single family, they will be required to plat. um then they're uh they fall and these are appropriate in your MPD MPUD development

1:24:22districts and your single family zoning districts and not in your multifamily zoning districts. Importantly, again, it will be required to be platted. Some of the future policies that will be

1:24:44Oops.

1:24:48We'll be looking at our just um is that we're going to be

1:24:55We'll be looking at the um 40 foot and 50-foot lot width, and I can tell you that one is currently underway. We've already started work on that. And the build to rent that is for your horizontal apartments. Um, we're also that's additional one that is going to be tackled. Um I also it would be miss if I didn't point out something and thank you David uh for your Email that

1:25:26when we were um in tune to what you had shared with us on our presentation that um working with Ralph Lair and thank him for his recent information, we have Senate Bill 1604 and House Bill 439. One of the things that you need to know is everything that we're doing with regard to certain uh design standards um may be um preempted by those two bills

1:25:56and um So I just wanted to make you aware of that. David, did you have any other comments on that?

1:26:04No, just a clarification point on the slide you have up. So The memo that's before the board today is only dealing with build a rent that has individual driveways, is that correct?

1:26:16Individual driveways and detach or attach garages that are

1:26:20Okay. So you're not Today we're not dealing with the horizontal apartments that have Common parking areas. Is that correct?

1:26:28No, sir. That's um the horizontal apartments is a future memo that we'll be working on.

1:26:34Okay, so there's under you understand the d distinction.

1:26:37Okay. But I think the point still remains someone needs to be Some some manager needs to be living there.

1:26:45So but I wanted to follow up on the legislative point. By classifying this product as single family There is now that risk that you're gonna be preempted from regulating architectural features if that legislation passes because There's currently an exception in the in the legislation for MPUDs and Planning Unit developments. The legislature is now proposing to remove that exception which basically would preempt your ability to regulate architecture on any single family dwelling. It

1:27:16does not preempt you from regulating on multifamily though. That's why this is Mm.

1:27:25But we have another issue on multifamily as Commissioner Weightman knows, which is

1:27:29is

1:27:29if you classify it as multifamily That means under a different bill you have to now allow it in your commercial and

1:27:37So sort of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Why are we sitting here?

1:27:45It's crazy. Sorry. I'm gonna text Brad right now.

1:27:51Okay. And that was and um finally we're here for a recommendation from our the board on policy memo sixteen confirming the proposed language of the attached policy memorandum directed direct the planning development department to begin implementation of the policy guidance. and a memorandum through revised MPUD conditions of approval, which shall apply to new MPUDs that have yet been heard by the Planning and Zoning

1:28:21Commission or the V OPH in the Planning Committee. Also we are open to an alternative motion to implement the policy guidance in the memorandum with revisions as may be directed by the board.

1:28:40Commission Weightman. Thank you.

1:28:43We

1:28:47All right. It's a big apple to take a bite out of, obviously, and with what's going on up North Florida. Um it's given us a lot to talk about, but Sally, I would thank you. I don't see Terry here, but but thank you all for addressing this issue. Is this this This issue has become kind of our well really number one policy focus in in my office and Andy knows it and thank you to Andy and and Terry. uh in our office in in helping us understand What

1:29:19all of this m. Right. Um And it really started off as a quality control mechanism for what was being built here, good quality product. So I appreciate the memo and what this memo does. It's a great start. Yeah, I'm very happy that we've got it here timely, but by no means this is a victory lap. This is just step one. in the process of figuring out how to manage this type of product as it comes into

1:29:50comes it to the market. And obviously I think There's going to be a broader discussion, especially with some of the rules that may be may be coming down. If a business promotes them if these this product comes comes to town and they promote themselves as their single family, they need to meet the single family standards that this board set in place. They need to follow the architectural design standards that the previous board set in place. And it And it goes to show that this is true because the Tampa Bay Business Journal wrote a

1:30:20very timely article Which solidified our point to bring this topic up. And it says i the the builder that's quoted in the in the article and the best part of it was The future the the future res the offer future residents the best of both worlds, an upscale single family rental living experience. They're promoting themselves as a single family home product. And if we tie this in to our true single family home

1:30:50product. where there's an actual homeowner. and skin in the game of owning a product versus a hedge fund or somewhere, somebody else out of out of state owning these these things. Yeah. These folks they meet with all of us. They say, Oh, we're never gonna sell our product. We're business is gonna last forever. I respectfully don't necessarily believe it. They're they're working their bottom line and they come in here, they build a product and then they bolt, whether it's five, ten, fifteen years. It's gonna happen. It's business. And I can appreciate that.

1:31:21But if we're gonna allow a product like this to be built here in our county. I want to ensure the quality and value is there. In that. The There's not an erosion. down the line of this product that's gonna have an impact on neighboring single family product because people come in, they see these things, oh this is a single family. They're they may not realize that what's next to them is rental. If you get a bad actor in there And they're not maintaining gutters, they're not

1:31:51maintaining the different pieces of the single family rental living experience, depending on who owns it. It's just it's just gonna potentially lead 'cause of the connectivity piece that we're very sensitive to 'cause Commissioner Starkey's led the way. It's It kind of should it should fit in into the model somehow. But we cannot let This product. erode away, the quality of the product erode away over time and have a negative impact on the true single family home buyer and the residents and the in and the property

1:32:21owners in our county. So Sally, I I very much appreciate what you guys have done and worked into this. I know been a lot of hours. I appreciate the stakeholders uh in the building community that have led that have lend their time to help understand this and and and and added their input. It's always it's always very important. And I think they understand the value in having this conversation. And as we continue to build in Pasco, we're building We're building product that's going to create value. And and

1:32:51take our county into a good place to be for for housing. Um I think with the architectural design standards piece, I think that's a different conversation related to this. But with with is related to this memo Um I'm very grateful that you all did this timely. I hope we work expeditiously. To fill the hole in the donut. Um Uh that way we can ensure that quality control standards are there and there can't be any gaming in our policy to kind of

1:33:21any workarounds that uh allow bad product to come in. So Thank you.

1:33:28Mr. Ropley. But how do we correct the ones that are there? How do we get them to be plotted lots? That so we don't have an issue in the future, that's that's way down the tra it's back. We've left that gate and we're on past that.

1:33:45Commissioner, I'd have to work with our our attorney's office. I'm not sure in my experience if there's a way or an opening for us to go back and rectify something that was approved a number of years ago. and to bring into some standards. I know that um maybe the uh rental registry that we have could help us by connecting us with whoever the management company is and try and put a lip teeth

1:34:16behind enforcement. Um but I'm not quite sure how we can retroactively Address it.

1:34:26Yeah, Mr. Charles,

1:34:27I'd be more than happy to bring the discussion.

1:34:31If the project was not developed in accordance with single family standards. it doesn't meet typical s setback standards for single family lots, it's gonna be very difficult for you to retroactively require them to plat.

1:34:45Yeah.

1:34:45Without a lot of variances and alternative standard because it wasn't designed to meet single family standards. That's the importance of this memo is that staff is basically saying on a going forward basis if they have the driveways and individual garages, they are going to have to meet single family standards and plat. But it's very difficult to retroactively plot a project that wasn't developed to those standards. Um well

1:35:09the problem is we have them now and how did we actually get them built? I mean I wasn't aware they were not plotted lots because that's what it looked like. That's what it felt like.

1:35:18I think Stop was permitting them as a multifamily the same way they would an apartment complex.

1:35:23Yeah. Yeah, I don't think that was very clear when we when we saw that at the beginning.

1:35:30Um 'cause

1:35:30I remember voting on the product. Commissioner Starkey.

1:35:34Yeah, I think we're learning a lot as we we go through this, but I I you know I do feel that there is a place for these. Because Um some people don't want to live in an apartment complex. You know, they'd like to have a rental that that um m ha feels more like a house, especially if you have a dog. I I think that would really be a um advantage for someone. But um

1:36:01But there's real there's really a lot to think about here because usually if you're in an apartment you have a a clubhouse with a meeting space and a pool. Um you definitely have a leasing office. Um don't have that with this this point. Yeah, and I mean we need to be thinking about those things. Th the other thing is uh I don't remember when it was. Um Um going back to the platted versus unplatted. I do remember when There was a time when apartments flipped to become condos. When

1:36:31was that?

1:36:33In the it was around the nineties you start seeing 'em start in that direction and especially for those con the apartments that were starting to become older, they started flipping I know some portions of it and some all the way and they started selling them off as condo units.

1:36:49Yeah, so um I mean I would think there is that possibility that Some of these built to rents could become co condoed and I think we talked about that yesterday. So there there may be a mechanism but I agree we have to make sure We are not building future slum areas in the county. We have to have some protections.

1:37:14They're not affordable. 'Cause twelve hundred square foot Three bedroom, two bath. twenty two, twenty four hundred dollars there's There's not many people can afford to do that. That's a rental, but it's a house. But I wouldn't consider those affordable housing. Commission Wayne.

1:37:36Going I know we're talking about retroactively. I know there was uh There was at least one project that came um in my time in Commissioner Bradford's time here. How many? I'd like to understand how many of these this type of product that we'll have coming forward that will not have to Follow these new design standards. If they haven't broke ground and started building yet If there's another vote or

1:38:06another conversation, I'd I'd really Like to be able to try to bring

1:38:14those those pro projects now that we kind of understand we understand what they are up to these up to these standards already approved so

1:38:24but need to be built with the quality control sta standards and mechanisms that are in place. It may take a little bit more time on county attorneys. The half now Because and I think it's worth it. To have spend a little more time if there is the ability to make a a a change for the better. Um and they're gonna be built regardless. Because ten, fifteen years down the road we don't know what what these things may may turn into. So it's worth a little bit more time now, I think, to investigate and talk to the

1:38:54stakeholder to say, Hey, let's Let's try to evolve the project a little bit. That's just a a thought I have. Um because I know What'd you say, Sal? Anything moving forward that has not been to the Planning Commission? So there's gotta be some that have already been to the Planning Commission through this board that haven't come to fruition yet. If they haven't come to fruition and not broken ground, I And there's a a legal mechanism County Attorney to have a a conversation. So there's a lot

1:39:24of things.

1:39:25Well Obviously you can try to get them to voluntarily comply, but if you want to make them comply You would have to do some amendment to your land development code, right? What Sally's talking about is a change to the MPs that are kind of going through the zoning process. The only way that you're going to be able to catch somebody that's already gone through the zoning process is actually to amend your land development code. to impose these standards But even then you're probably not going to be able to catch somebody who already has gotten a site plan approval. Because

1:39:55at that point it's pretty much too late.

1:39:58But it's worth to ask them in a good faith effort if they continue to want to build their product in our market, in our home. Just maybe. They'll reconsider and make some changes. If they want to be building this project this type of product into the future and want to have support for it. I'd like to think that there could be a good faith conversation. Moving before before it's done. I'm at least willing to try to say, try. We have to try.

1:40:28I like the approach. Commissioner Oakley.

1:40:31I remember a couple that I've seen besides the one that I lived in. uh which was already built. These others were coming to be built. But I don't remember 'em being like these. Th these had uh services and all that, pools they had a rec center, those type things that I saw with them, even though they were rental housing. Uh there's some I think on County Road fifty two now. um that's coming to be but it they haven't started building them yet. But I think those are a better product

1:41:01than what I was living in.

1:41:03So Well I'll say I I I'd like to know what mechanism we can use. Our land development code for a single family home doesn't allow a fifty or f forty or fifty foot lot anyway, right? Yeah. Now we're saying these things could be called single family. So I don't know if there's a mechanism that can be a part of a mechanism to say you can't come forward with it. If it's already in the M PUD. Um if it it's if you're not gonna be able to If you can isolate it to where if it hasn't come to planning commission yet, or it's already been to c if it hasn't come to planning commission yet. I think even if it's gone to Planning Commission

1:41:33yet, why shouldn't we be able to stop it if it hasn't come to before the board yet? Why d why do I have one definition where I can say Planning Commission, why can't I make it if it just hasn't been to us yet? If I could do one, why couldn't I do the other?

1:41:45Well I would think I would think Mr. Gosing can can answer I'm sure on this, but I would think You still have the right to put restrictions on on properties up until you vote for it. So

1:41:58No, I th you could tie up the deadline to be those projects that haven't been to the board yet. I I think Yeah. My guess is that staff proposed Planning Commission because That's typically the point in time when Staff has finalized conditions of approval. Um Not to say the board couldn't change those though. I mean you have that Until you approve something, it's not approved. So Yes, you

1:42:23couldn't been to us and we can't put the right-of-way.

1:42:31MPDs that have not gone to the board yet. Yeah. But I think Commissioner Weightman is talking about a slightly different issue, which is the ones that have already been to the board.

1:42:40They're passing. They just haven't

1:42:41started construction yet.

1:42:42You can ask that. Well, but I'm looking at both. So I mean we're we're looking so l let's let's go to so we can s we can just change the language too if it comes hasn't come to the board yet.

1:42:51That's easy enough

1:42:52to change in the memo that the settings.

1:42:58But I would tell you the time between Planning Commission and Board Approval is fairly small. You're not gonna there's n we're not talking about a lot of projects that I've got I've got one coming right now. Okay. Yeah, there you m there may be a few, yes. But I think you have the power to since you have the power to deny those projects anyway, you certainly have the power to recondition them.

1:43:18I mean I think we've got to send a message out there. And I again You know, maybe an advan Atlanta developer is not going to care about another project in Pasco. They may just build the one and move on, make his money and and go and away he goes. Uh

1:43:30but the problem is is the one that I was in, there's there's a couple more that have been before the city to try to be in Include in the city. that failed the city already and now I hear they're gonna come to to the board about the same kind of project that I lived in.

1:43:48It just doesn't need to continue. That's We need to have some restrictions that are that are correct to the issues this first one had in it.

1:43:55And and I'd say I'm glad you brought up the points you brought as far as not having the leasing office there. When you talk about not having a clubhouse there either.

1:44:01Yeah.

1:44:01Both should be there. Otherwise, as you say, you know.

1:44:14Uh huh. And I mean they're all front loaded.

1:44:16Yeah.

1:44:17And they're very small. I mean they're s small properties.

1:44:20And I think you guys remember the time I was talking with my daughters were up in Orlando, they had a town home project. Loaded. parking, you could be parking way down the street, whatever tight as can be, and they counted A single car garage was a parking spot.

1:44:34I think

1:44:34we count

1:44:35that

1:44:35as a parking spot too.

1:44:40And you've got to do that. Parking garage number one, parking spot number two, and the other one's gonna find a spot.

1:44:45Yeah.

1:44:45Makes no sense. It's d doomed for failure, and it was. I mean it was It filled the need for a short period of time, but I'll tell you if we had a better place we could we could have gone uh and made a move. So I I don't wanna build like as you say, the slum for the future.

1:44:58So I wanna just let you know that I know some in B O P H have um added parking space on on the interior roads. They've added parking spaces in different locations close to the homes. So I know that for a fact. They've they put those there on purpose just because they know they need the extra parking space.

1:45:16But but that's not that can look kind of That may not be optimal either because then you've taken away the green space around buildings. So And you know, we talked about this before and maybe in our planning workshop we'll We can have bet more discussions, but If you're not going to be able to If you drive around Longleaf, I think it's a great example where you can see where the roads are narrow and there is on street parking, but it's all on one side. and

1:45:47and so there there's still that green space in the front of um buildings that are, you know, rear rear loaded, granted, but David there's is there on street parking Uh where there's driveways on the front as well?

1:46:03I believe

1:46:03so I live in the area of the neighborhood where there is no front loaded lots, so But there's on street parking even on the streets that don't have cutouts and it's only on one side as you said.

1:46:15Yeah. So if it's on one side it it is I mean they do that in South Tampa and Old North East and you know all the classic neighborhoods. So I I d I don't know that we wanna be building parking lots all over neighborhoods either, but We just There's way I think there's ways to accommodate more parking in We need to require that. Some of that, like I just told you, is in B O P H. Yeah. I saw the design, it's all on the end caps.

1:46:40Yeah.

1:46:41And um

1:46:44Right. But the bottom the bottom line we gotta really look at these forties and fifties because they're the ones causing all the trouble. I mean when when you look at values of homes It said between probably all the inflation rates with everything else going up that Yeah it takes a four hundred thousand dollar house, five hundred thousand dollars to pay its own way in taxes. I don't know if that's an accurate number or how close it is, but it just tells you that the smaller the house, the smaller the the value the worse it is when you got values of places that are down because they don't have enough parking, they don't have a clubhouse, they don't have a place for

1:47:14Customer service for for that. It's it's it's not gonna be a a boost to the to the tax base. I got it.

1:47:21I got an answer for we'll just uh not have any more forties or fifties and you won't have that issue in in doing Unless they're rear loaded.

1:47:31Yeah. I mean 'cause that's what they're doing 'em on forty and fifty foot lots. I mean we don't want I don't believe we want the rest of our county to look like forty and fifty foot lots all over the place. No

1:47:41I don't mind 'em if they're rear loaded.

1:47:44Yeah, but they're not doing that because it takes more land to do that and they cuts our numbers. But only because

1:47:51of numbers. So maybe it's a condition we need to look at putting into place because I will say The ones at Starkey that they built in there, they look good. There's enough parking. Um if we can work with them on the fire lane issue that they had and some other things.

1:48:07Good looking product that could last and hold value. As opposed to some of the other things we've seen where you get parking on the street, parking here, parking there that that don't work. Commissioner Weightman.

1:48:18Jack Mariano you brought up the the the point in changing I was trying to get some clarity on this. Bad. potentially moving approval with this memo, but a change to Was it ch the the Planning Com Commission and the V O P H? piece. I was looking for clarity on on that.

1:48:40Planning commission in view of PH policy and planning committee approval. But I want to be clear. That's for this memo. But you could make easily make that change for this memo. But this memo is not addressing forty and fifty foot lots.

1:48:57And the problem staff's gonna have is There are no state. They haven't created any standards. They haven't worked with the development community to create the additional standards for horizontal apartments and forty and fifty foot lots. That's why this is step one. Right. So you can make the cutoff for step one board approval. But I don't want the board to think that's gonna affect the horizontal apartments and forty and fifty foot lots because there is you don't have a memo before you today addressing those issues.

1:49:25Can can I follow up on that commission? Uh on the forties and fifties. Can we

1:49:32Can we go ahead and Start requiring that? Even though it's not in our I mean don't we do we have the discretion to go ahead and

1:49:41My only concern Commissioner, is the there was a prior memo that was brought to this board that you approved. Which put a limit on the number in forty and fifty foot lots. But then I then I think staff needs to bring that memo back. It said that they would reevaluate it every six months, and it has been six months since that memo. I think they need to bring a new memo back to you that addresses forty and fifty foot lots. But that memo's not before you today and you but you could direct them to do that and bring back provisions to that that prior memo.

1:50:12Just think how much better our county would look with that than what we're getting.

1:50:16Well let me say this. When we like w when I look to this uh bill to rent product I will still say I do like it better with the right situation than the apartments we're building. I mean the apartments we're building, uh I mean, we're killing ourselves. I mean and then I'm not sure. You know, we got we got the Sheriff's Office like firing away stuff about what's sixty fourth out of sixty seven. We got other data that says we're in much better shape.

1:50:41Well there we go. But but what what I'm saying is there's there's a push out there that these apartments are getting the people in so quick in such a high quantity. There's a layback before we c he can catch up with restaffing or staffing stronger to go forward with Let's say the extra that he's been getting over the past six years, seven years. So again that density, that product I mean I don't I don't like 'em. Um The rent to own I think is even a better product, but it's it's something we gotta be really watch it watchful of that

1:51:12if you just crush this too hard, then you may just get we're just gonna get apartments anyway. So just get you gotta be ready. They're gonna try to build something, something cheap where they can make money. And and we gotta look at everything. So I just wanna keep that as an open mind for everything we look at. Commissioner Weightman.

1:51:27Thank you, Chairman M

1:51:31My intention into bringing this up. To your point. I l I like this product better. the single family home style r rent product. My concern is Is it because of the connectivity issue, because of the single family lifestyle feel that they're selling? that if there's a bad actor in the management firm as these things are sold and traded or whatever That We protect the neighboring single

1:52:02family owned Yeah. And to ensure the quality control mechanisms on this product are there. Also, the safeguard was When I we learned that Because they weren't platted, say Enron owned them for example, and they're going belly up. There was no ability to sell each individual Rental house. Off as a single family. It had to be sold as a whole. So it's a fire sale. For cheap price. Then

1:52:32what's gonna happen? Are they gonna come back in, whoever owns it, wherever they live, or what hedge firm hedge fund firm has it to to reinvest in it? Maybe, maybe not. How do we use code enforcement standards? I mean it was f it fell under our multifamily

1:52:49But if there's an exit strategy in with this product as it gives the owner of the entire place an option if things are tough to sell them off as single family because it has our design standards, it meets the code, it is platted, or they could sell them as a whole. It creates an equal playing field. And then you're selling something that's going to compete with the neighboring connected single-family home product.

1:53:15i it that's that's the r the the premise behind this. So I just wanted to share that.

1:53:21You know, it's it's difficult when you have a let's say you got in building that's coming in, uh development is coming in, and the people that sit in the C D D are all the developers people at the start. hits a certain point then it becomes it flips over where Now the majority comes to the owners and they get control. I'd be interested to see how the HOAs are. that can be implemented if it does go to the plat, if it does go for sale, how are you going to implement all the rules in place? Are those rules going to be set up ahead of time? Um I think it's kind of something you really gotta dive dive

1:53:51into a look at. And I'll I'll go a step further. Take a look at um the harder Ridge Road, all the apartments that are in there. Right.

1:54:02Where's

1:54:02Harper Bridge?

1:54:05Ridge Road. Oh

1:54:05Ridge Road.

1:54:06Ridge R Ridge Road. Do you get you the apartments up on the side? It's the some that are not good. Right. If you could set up where With apartments even. that you went through and you maybe platted those as condo units? So that when they went, if it does go where they gotta go try to sell it and are we gonna who are you gonna sell it to? You get some other one that picks up and they're either they're a discount buyer that they're not gonna maintain the property either and you gotta go deal with those those situations. Maybe that's something we should look at with

1:54:36the apartments too. to put a put something in there. Commissioner Oakley.

1:54:40Yeah, I'm just wondering if if we require 'em to have an H O A or a C D D. How do you have those when you only have one ownership? 'Cause the people that are actually renting the houses aren't the owners of the house. So how how do you have HOAs or things of that nature?

1:54:57You

1:54:58know,

1:54:58I I my first my first thoughts when this was coming up, I was thinking what are you gonna do about you know what's gonna happen when it cells, you're gonna need to set up an HOA. But my other thought goes to just as as you just alluded to as well. What's gonna happen when you first sell 'em? If they only sell five or ten, then they they run the HOA anyway. So you're really not helping the people on that? That's why I said do you have to have that HOA set up ahead of time and how do you structure it?

1:55:20Yeah.

1:55:22Is there a way that can work so so thing?

1:55:25Well so That's part of the reason staff is recommending these be platted. If they are platted They will have to have an H O A

1:55:33Mm.

1:55:34So it all plating is the key distinction. That's the importance of this memo, the to Commissioner Weightman's point, is if you require the right-of-way. this particular type of builder rent to be platted It will have to meet single family standards to have an HOA. meet all the standards that a single family home would have to meet. That's effectively what staff is recommending with this memo.

1:55:55Okay.

1:55:55But it's n to be clear, it's not addressing the horizontal apartments that are parking in common parking areas. That's that's a it's gonna have to be subject to a different memo.

1:56:06And common recreational opportunities. Correct. Lifestyle opportunities.

1:56:11Commissioner Starkey.

1:56:13Um so I think we're having a really good discussion. Um part of the problem is none of us are real knowledgeable about this and um like I'm getting some text from some people who um finance these and build these and I think I think Well

1:56:31To have someone talk to us. um who knows how these are financed and bonded and And I'd l I'd love to hear more from From uh industry. And and you guys you guys

1:56:44have met with industry? Yes, we've met with industry. Um we held meetings I can Say I probably think since we got the directive we've probably had six or seven meetings with stakeholders that included um outside legal staff who work with these um individuals and developers, also builders that are involved in this industry. And we held me regular meetings, sent drafts back and forth, got as much input

1:57:15as as possible and then uh sat down with each of you to talk about how it was evolving and um also uh Mr. Goldstein was very helpful in providing some additional guidance as well. So um I think the key here is the determination that these types of bill to rent that Look like, feel like they are single family residential developments and will be required to plat as your typical

1:57:45single family residential development and all the conditions that go along with that type of approval.

1:57:51Now now um Commissioner, I'd love to know the name of the one you live in so I could or live to answer.

1:57:58Okay, so I'm gonna drive I um states of so how so next Metro, just to the one that we approved uh near Sun Coast. Now I've driven through that one. That that actually is the only one I've ever driven through. Does Would that would this apply to that one or no, because there's no driveways?

1:58:20I think those are horizontal apartments. Those are that would not those those would not be affected by this memo.

1:58:28Because you know, I I like the product. I don't like the layout. Um Um so I guess we we still have more work to do, but I I need to go see one of these. I need to go see what what you lived in. But I have heard you talk about the horrors of it. So So how m how many have we approved that are like this?

1:58:50I don't think there's very many I think.

1:58:55Like the subject of this memo or build a rent in general?

1:58:58Like like the subject of this memo.

1:59:01I don't think this is a very small subset of Build a Rent. There's not many Build a Rent that are built with individual driveways and garages.

1:59:10Uh we we did approve one that is from uh like Homes for America or Americans for Rent or something like that.

1:59:17Yeah, that was But they are plating. It was platted. What happened was you didn't have the other controls in

1:59:27Yeah.

1:59:28Because staff was considering it to be multifamily so they were not imposing on that product type. But this memo would make it clear that they that they would be subject to single family standards. But to answer your question in general, this is this is just the tip of the iceberg. It's it's not covering the majority of builder rent that comes into Pasco County.

1:59:47Correct.

1:59:48And

1:59:48we need to, you know,

1:59:49we need

1:59:50to get an education. And if there's others out there, um, I know that we learned a lot from working with the stakeholders. If there's others out there that want to be involved in that, you know, we would ask that they get in in touch with us because right now we've started on the forty to fifty foot lot and then the next is going to be the horizontal. that we really, you know, we're open, we want to make sure we understand it before bringing it to to you.

2:00:18The the first one I remember was over Lando Lakes. That came in.

2:00:22There there was one I think off of Lake Patience Road.

2:00:25What's that one

2:00:26called similar to that. I I don't recall the exact name of it.

2:00:30Was it Lake Patients or Bell Lake? I I know there's one on like patients. Okay.

2:00:36All right, Bill Bell I think the one I think it was was Bill I was just and just mentally think it was on the other side of the road. Um and I'm sure there's Uh other too. too. But I don't know, maybe maybe maybe Sally can get us a list of list of these and give us an opportunity to go drive around.

2:00:52Yeah, I think we can do that. And I I'd just like to thank Sally and her team. It's it's been a collaborative approach, both with industry and and and with with the challenges that that we're seeing. But I think, you know, to the Commissioner Weightman's point, it it it does good to preserve options for the future. Um and also kinda helps integrate into our into our current community. With respect to things that have already passed through the first wicket, i.e. board approval, I I have no issue sitting down with folks at Site Plan and and and seeing What can be done. I am sure there will

2:01:23be schedule implications that will be of of interest to industry when it comes to platting. But uh again, we we we maintain a collaborative relationship with the development community and I'm and I'm sure there's there's there's room to talk.

2:01:34And please know that as these are coming through, even if we don't have something in place, we're trying to encourage people to think in this direction because this is the direction we we know the board wants to do. to go and for some say for example that have gone through planning board and now they're getting ready to come to the commission and we start talking about them they are explaining to us they've expended hundreds of thousands of dollars at this point and you know feel that we're pushing um uh

2:02:04requirements on them that have not been approved. So but know that, you know, they're open. Some of 'em are trying to shift as we talk about this and some of 'em have, you know, made a large investment and feel that, you know, to have go back to the drawing board in its entirety could be very cost prohibitive for them and their um the developers and So but we're we've we've not just sat back and not had those conversations. I want you to know that.

2:02:34No, and we just approved a couple at the last meeting that had been so far down the line we kinda we we had to let 'em go anyway. So and that in the V V O P H so I I think the discussion's good. Um I'm sure that each one of us will get several phone calls coming up. So we'll probably do some follow-up meetings for the business community. There's no doubt in my mind. But You know, it's it's so difficult as as commissioners we can't talk to each other. The only time we can have these conversations and throw ideas out is when we're in front of this board. So it may be a little disruptive in conversation

2:03:04for the industry, but It's the only way we can decide about or and talk about our experiences. I mean literally I did not know they wouldn't have a person on premises. Uh I think it's a great idea to look to have someone with with make sure they have a clubhouse too. Yeah. And and and and I'll tell you from the Land O' Lakes one that I remember, I remember that being a single drive with every single house in there. And I I I I don't remember anything different. So Others that have maybe changed and morphed? to kinda like get what they wanted and uh build build

2:03:35build the product they wanted. It's kinda like it's a it's an awareness thing for us right now. It's a new thing and we need to go look at what the ramifications are because a long way down the road we want to see what this kind of is going to be for down the road. We want to make it as gr great as we can.

2:03:48So what do we do with this memo today? Do we um Bring it back to us with some research and then we discuss it again.

2:03:56Well I think you can take action on again it's a limited pool of Bill Durant you're dealing with today, but you could take action on this memo. which effectively requires that limited pool to be platted. You could do that and just make the the applicability cutoff board approval instead of Planning Commission approval if that's What you want to do. It sounds like this memo's already been through the stakeholder input. It's I don't think you're gonna shock anybody if you approve the this memo today. Just recognizing it's not dealing with Forty

2:04:27and fifty foot lots. It's not dealing with horizontal apartments. It's just dealing with A small subset of Bill Durant.

2:04:34Can we include

2:04:37Clubhouse. leasing office on premises as well.

2:04:41Well, Okay, but that that's more a horizontal apartment issue.

2:04:46Correct.

2:04:46That's not this issue. This is these are the build of rent that look just like single family homes with individual driveways, individual garages.

2:04:53But that's where Commissioner Oakley lived and there was no one to

2:04:58to talk to. Well if they're but they that may not have been platted with an H O A.

2:05:02No, it was platted.

2:05:03Hm.

2:05:03Denise Ronette's telling me is a platted Not platted. She says It's all one big lot. She said estates at Fort King is platted single family detached.

2:05:15One now?

2:05:17She says is Denise sitting in here? Um she's saying it's platted where you lived. So did that mean they it was supposed to have an H O A?

2:05:27I've I've not been told that It was more than just one lot. That all the houses sit on. They're individual homes, detached rental.

2:05:36And were there trees on those lots? Any trees?

2:05:41But she has got

2:05:42the trees. Oh, they have some. Pine trees in the backyard.

2:05:45Backyard, nothing in the

2:05:46street. Every backyard had two pine trees. Yeah,

2:05:48well that'll be gone. What about the front?

2:05:52Front maybe one.

2:05:55I'm gonna drive through it. I'll take take a video, you know me.

2:05:59So we're getting close to the past the noon hour now. We all agree that we want to have them platted? I w do all do we all agree we we want to plan it?

2:06:08This particular product type is what you're talking about.

2:06:14Yes.

2:06:15Well hang on for your motion for just for a second. So I just want to see if we'll get consensus on that first. Does everyone pretty much agree we want to get them all platted.

2:06:21I would think that was a route to go. Okay.

2:06:26With discussion that we haven't here. We haven't talked about it, but I think Commissioner Oakley's point about not having a leasing office. Or a clubhouse. Do we want to make that happen as well? And can we make that happen at this point?

2:06:38Not for the current memo. But you can direct staff to look into that issue for the the horizontal department memo. Yeah, for future. Because they're gonna be working on standards for that product type. Okay. That would be an example of a standard for that product type. All right, so I'm ready for a motion.

2:06:53Okay, thank thank you, Chairman. Thank you, board. I know we kind of went. It was good. All over the place. Fantastic discussion. I I thank you all for entertaining this when we brought it up a couple of months back. Appreciate Terry and Sally and your team for for going through this exercise and the stakeholders, some of them are here in the crowd. They have not been neglected from from this. process. There's been a lot of of time and conversation around it. So this this is just step one for a very small portion of of this type of product to start

2:07:23you know adding quality control standards and value. Again, I can't stress that enough. If a product comes in and they come and talk to my office I asked the question of quality and value and I believe this is a step in ensuring that the product that's being built like this will hopefully with the added

2:07:42With the applicability being Board of County Commissioners approval instead of planning commission, that would be the applicability cutter.

2:07:48Adding what attorney County Attorney Goldstein has has said in into that into the motion. So thank you.

2:07:55Okay, any further discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. And one item can Mr Chair,

2:08:02can I just add one more point? Sure. I do urge you though to contact your legislators about this bill that is pending in the legislature because A lot of what you're talking about is quality is architectural control. And the legislature is very close to taking away your ability to impose architectural controls on single families.

2:08:20And again that Senate Bill 1604 and House

2:08:28So thank you, Chairman So with that with all the work that the previous board did and Commissioner Starkey and architectural design standards and

2:08:37With you saying with with you saying that in this bill there No workaround to create quality, value and and beauty in our in our single family home ownership product. You're saying that it's gonna be vanilla?

2:08:51I'm seeing that's the legislature trying to preempt your authority on that. Now I can't tell you until the

2:08:56holiday all over the county.

2:08:57Until the until the final legislation is approved, I can't tell you if there's a workaround or not. Now Typically There's nothing preventing the developer from imposing their own architectural control. I mean HOAs and developers do it all the time. the question will be for the board, do you want to continue to improve forty fifty forty and fifty foot lots? if there are no architectural controls. And there may be some developers that voluntarily agree to architectural controls to get forty and fifty foot lots. But we that's a conversation we'll have to deal with if

2:09:28and when this legislation passes, but Clearly the legislature is attempting to preemptor authority to regulate architecture on single family homes.

2:09:36So some some developers just knowing we're doing this are already changing and putting these standards in place. Right? I know I know that.

2:09:43I've heard that.

2:09:44Right? So uh so I I know that's that's going on. Um But I would I think David maybe if you could type get a letter to us. That we can get to our legislative delegation. And as for Not to have these controls taken from us.

2:09:57Yes.

2:09:58I I I don't it's it's it's the bad actors you gotta worry about. That'll just build a picture

2:10:02of

2:10:02the

2:10:02emotion that that we give the chair permission to send that letter out. So

2:10:06with photographs.

2:10:08Right. I have a motion. Second. All in favor say aye.

2:10:13Aye.

2:10:13Any opposed?

2:10:14I I think we should send photographs to show what what they're what we're gonna have if this passes. It is in the motion.

2:10:20Yeah, so I I'll look at it, but I think planning needs to take the lead on drafting. Yeah,

2:10:24we'll we'll take the lead through our legislative and planning to to do that.