PC1 Bell Lake MPD PDD 20748 32 single-family units
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Machine transcription of 35m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 73% of 233 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Okay, so we're back to PC one.
It's how you know.
Okay. Yes, hi. Yes, I got it. I got it now. Um Patrick Dutter, Planning and Development Department. Uh good afternoon, everybody.
Yes, so this is uh item PC one, Bell Lake MPD, PDD 20748. Um this is the location map. Um Ah okay, great. Uh so it's at the intersection of Bell Lake Road and Alpine Road. It's roughly one mile east of Land Lakes Boulevard. Uh Land Lakes Boulevard is out this way.
Uh this is the current zoning surrounding the property. Um you'll see it's some lower density residential to the north, but you have a PUD to the south and then a higher density PUD uh sorry, let me get to the pointer. A higher density PUD over here to the east. You also have a little bit of multifamily up here to the north as well. The future land use of the area is Res 6. There's Res Six throughout the whole entire area.
Uh the applicant's request is to go from uh R1 Rural Residential Zoning District to an MPUD master plan unit development zoning to develop 32 single-family detached residential units. Um again, the property currently retains its original zoning district of R1 Rural Residential.
This is the proposed master plan from the developer currently. You'll see that the the park uh sites had to be split up into two smaller parks just because of the size of the parcel.
Again, some more finding a fact. The site is approximately 9.468 acres of unimproved land. 7.93% is uplands, and 1.52% is wetlands. The applicant is again proposing 4.03 dwelling units per developable acre for 32 single-family dwelling units. Um the access, let me go back a slide just to show you at the access. The access is oop The access is off of Alpine Road here. And
I believe there will be a turn lane off of Bell Lake Road turning into um Alpine Road.
This is again kind of what I've covered already, um, the the surrounding districts and land use and the existing uses surrounding it. Uh it's located in the central market area. It is just outside the boundary of the urban service area. And the proposed request is consistent with the Pasco County LDC, Chapter 400, Subsection 402, Zoning Amendment, MPUD Master Plan Unit Developments, and with the applicable provisions of the Pasco County Comprehensive Plan. And PDD recommends approval to the
BCC of the rezoning request with conditions. Okay. For me? Any questions? Up here.
So far.
Not so far.
All right. All right. Is the applicant present?
Yes, Mr. Chairman and Board Members Todd Pressman, 202nd Avenue South in St. Petersburg, Florida, here representing this application today. We work closely with your staff. I think they've, excuse me, given you a very good report. We have submitted all the transportation analysis, which result has been very positive. Um we have sent out or I have sent out 90 notices plus to neighbors. I did receive a few calls. I responded to all those. All those folks seemed to be uh
well answered. Um And uh as your staff indicates, they support it in their review. Comp plan support its uh excuse me, the comp plan supports it. A couple policy which I think are important is uh policy or objective HSG 1.1, which uh S or directs uh sufficient densities to achieve a variety of different housing types. and to ensure
that there's a good variety of housing stock. And uh that falls under policy our policy H S G one point one point three to encourage residential infill in urban areas. So per your staff report, the transportation report, the notes we've sent out. Uh we believe this is a very good request. It'll be a very nice little subdivision in addition to Pasco County. Happy to answer any questions you might have.
Okay. Do we have any questions at this time?
Reserve for
the Thank you,
Sherman.
All right, I think we have some people here with questions. So if you want to come forward, state your name and address. and your concern.
Thank you. I think you have most of that up. On the screen. I'm Troy Gotcho. I live to the north side of that parcel. I own uh a little over two acres there.
Okay.
And uh this is well I'll let you introduce yourself.
I'm Dave Hodreen and I live adjacent Just to the north side of the property and I have two and a quarter acres.
Okay. Keeping a a record of what What's being said and who's saying it. If you're gonna change speakers I need you to say who you are so that Okay, then I'll finish first. Yeah. All right.
Yeah, we need your addresses as well.
[address removed], which is the lane right to the north. Okay, and we'll get yours when you speak. Okay. So we're opposing the change. uh of zoning to this uh MPUD. Um and and the main concern is the size of the lots. They're proposing 35 foot wide lots. Everything around this area is R1, Res 6. Most of the lots are at least a half acre in
size. This is going to change completely what is on four sides of that. Even the development, Lake Page on the other side of Bell Lake on the south side. Um The lots are quarter to half acre in size. What regardless of whether Res six allows more density, it's not there. Um And the development further to the west, those lots are much wider than thirty five feet as well. We're
concerned about drainage in the area and just the look and feel changing drastically from the rural area that we've lived in for the last twenty years.
Okay. Any questions? One more thing I'd like to mention. Their plan shows Uh They have a wetland mitigation pond of some sort just to the west of the wetlands. And That is very close to where my well is as well. So I'd be concerned about what they're gonna end up putting in there. I like
what
you're doing.
All right, um Dave Hodrine and I'm at [address removed]. Okay.
adjacent property there. Um
To add to what Troy has already told you guys, um We researched the development company also that's gonna develop the property and the majority of their communities that they've put into Florida are rental homes. They don't sell the homes, they rent
them.
I'm really concerned about bringing rental properties right next to my home Um our home values, we're really worried about those. Uh you know I'm my house is At at least a half a million dollars right now. I'm sure some of these homes are not gonna be close to that with the size of the home that's going in there and the size of their lots. Uh so really worried about the future value of our homes and what's going on there. Um What else do we have? And then just to add to Troy um the property,
I mean the uh traffic. Going up and down Alpine Road. Alpine Road, you almost have to if a large truck's coming down the road, you almost have to pull over. to kinda give them room. It's a very small road. We have ditches on either side. Um and stacking You know, pulling out onto Bell Lake Road from Alpine. There's a lot of traffic going up Bell Lake Road coming through from Collier. And uh Just being able to get out onto the main roads is gonna be tougher for us. So we're worried about that also.
Alpine, is that a paved road or it is paved, yes. And Bell Lake of course is. Okay, two lane. Right.
Mm-hmm. Or small country roads,
basically. Anything else?
Any uh any questions from up here?
Just a statement on the road issue. I'd like to call Planning Commission's attention to condition nine.
The applicants required to improve Alpine Road to County standards from Bell Lake to the project driveway. So To the extent it's a substandard width. They're gonna be required to improve it. Okay.
Be aware of that?
All right. Um We have the uh Applicant back up to respond to those questions.
Uh yes m Mr. Chairman Mari would like to show some elevations of the proposed product if I may. Um I think There's silver here if I you wanna try them over there or just pass them through, Denise? Uh may I pass these to the board members? These are uh some of the elevations of the proposed product. Okay. Um I'll start two on this side, start two on this side if I may.
No, that's fine. Okay. Second. We have a motion of second. All in favor. Aye.
Um so as indicated um the comp plan at this location, in fact the whole area is six units per acre. per what staffs communicated to you, we're coming in at about four units per acre. Um but that's the minimum. uh what's the target for this site actually at this point would be the target is twenty seven homes, forty foot lots by one ten. So again, what's proposed
is the absolute minimum. We don't think we're going to come into that point. Um
you mean to say maximum instead of minimum?
The minimum size lots.
Well you mean the minimum size lots
35?
It's 32 units being approved. Are you saying that is the maximum that you will build?
Maximum is the 32, correct?
But you said minimum, that's why you are freezing me.
I apologize. Let me rephrase. Thank you. The maximum number of units is 32. The target at the moment, as we are looking closer, is 27. The minimum lot size is thirty-five foot wide. The target right now is forty. So there is going to be adjustment here. Um
In regard to the densities permitted or Speed limit in terms of density, six units per acre, will b be far below that. For the target will even be below the four units per acre. But again, as the Complan indicates, under a number of policies and objectives, it's important to have various housing stock. This would come close or be part of workforce housing, not affordable housing, but a workforce housing, which is the type of housing all the counties are looking at. So in
that regard, uh we feel it's valid and credible and it's consistent, but most importantly, looking at the plan, you'll see that This of course would be a segmented or separate. subdivision separated from the others. But to the north, of which the gentleman are at, is all buffering. Uh there's no homes placed to that side. There's a pond, floodplain mitigation area, and existing category three wetlands. So there'll be a great distance From that property
line. And then also you'll note to the west is the same thing, pond, a couple of ponds. So this would be a very compact subdivision, extremely well buffered, particularly from concerns raised from the gentlemen to the north. I'll just emphasize again, Mr. Chairman, that we did send out over 90 notices. I think just having two gentlemen here, I think, is a great response. Appreciate their comments, respect their comments, and I'll leave it at that. Happy to answer any questions you might have.
Mr. Brosby, would you wanna um address the rental concern that one of the gentlemen brought up?
The company does do a lot of rental housing. That that certainly is the case. Uh that is a type of housing stock that is well needed. Uh these are higher priced these are higher priced home. These are not small and expensive homes as you can see they're a view very beautiful product. It's designed for families. It's not apartments or things of that nature. These are very nice single-family homes. So it is a much higher stock. in that category.
So what do you see here as your average rental rate there?
How much are they gonna rent for?
I don't have an answer to that. I do have a uh what would be a typical price point, but I don't have a rental rate. I don't know what that is.
What is your typical price point?
Mm-hmm.
The market value of the homes proposed have a range from two hundred fifty nine thousand to three hundred and forty five thousand per the uh developer.
So he plans to sell some of those and rent some of them. Is that what you're saying?
To best of my knowledge, the emphasis is on renting. Uh purchasing of course is always an option as well.
Mr. Chairman I just want to be clear, the county doesn't really regulate Even if you were to sell these homes, we don't regulate somebody then renting out once they buy it.
Right. Sure.
Unless it becomes a short term rental and then it triggers our short term rental ordinance. But otherwise if it's a long term rental situation the county doesn't do anything to stop somebody from buying and then renting it out. So I I'm I'm sure it really matters whether it's rental or purchase because we don't Stop somebody from renting it.
I'm really asking that for the benefit of the neighbors.
Yeah. I just didn't want them to also think that we somehow regulate
rental versus
purchase. Right, exactly.
Okay. Um
Yeah, well what's what's the square footage of the homes? You gave us five pages, you gave us five different uh Um
Views of the home, some of them look very small, some look very large. Is that the product that's gonna go in this area or those are anticipated uh photos that you wanted to show us. Well what's the end project gonna look like that's gonna go into those homes and of course no one knows the square footage of the homes too.
Uh I have two floor planes I can show you. Uh these are two four plans of the proposed units. Um I don't have the exact square footage. I'd have to add it up. But I'd be happy to give you these four plans if you like, sir.
Not really.
I'd be happy to put
the square foot in
the
side.
Uh I'd be happy to put these in the record for the other members or for yourself as well if I make.
So you don't know the answer to how the size they're gonna be? I mean are they Fifteen hundred, two thousand, three thousand square I mean, what are we talking about house size?
My my understanding is the mid two thousands. Um I can look through my notes quickly, but that's my general understanding, yes sir.
Um I similar to the question that I asked about uh About rental rates and then how many would be rented there. the size of the home is not something we can control but w you know we can control the lot size. We can't control the size of the home. But I'm w I think the Questions are being asked for the benefit of the people who are gonna live.
Yes, sir.
Next door.
Um anybody have any
receives in file.
Is that
a new
one?
Oh yeah,
was that part of the prior
to
the
motion to receive? I'll make a motion to receive and file. Second.
All in favor? Aye. Okay.
I mean I I've got a concern too with the lot size and of itself. I mean the way that this is brought before us there are thirty five foot wide lots and everything out there, the minimum I see around there is eighty foot wide lots. Um existing zonings R one. Um I know we're changing the zoning that's why we're here, but I I just I have a problem with these small lots myself.
Well and uh to the uh yeah, to the west they're half acre lots.
Even to the south they're close to
point three acres. Yeah, yeah.
So um If I can, Terry, do you have any uh thoughts or comments you'd like to share with us about that?
Terms
of compatibility and so forth. With with excuse me, Nicarios Pitos Planning and Development. Are you referring to with regard to the lot sizes themselves?
Yeah, just how you Feel about it. Are you comfortable with it?
Well what I can say is that the residential flu or the future Landus is a residential future Landus of res six. And typically um The densities are going to relate specifically to the flu. So the lot dimensions that are going to be produ um designed are going to meet that future land use. density limit. So here it's six dwelling units per gross acre. To fit six dwelling units per gross acre, they've come in with a lot
width that's uh I believe it was thirty five feet mm wide. So it meets the density requirement in that regard. Okay.
how wide lot sizes can be and and how big other facilities need to be on the site in order to accommodate Um Things like the stormwater infrastructure, for example, and the road network. So th those play into how the development's gonna shape out. All
right. Now that being said, there's nobody's entitled to the maximum that the feature lane use allows and this is zoning. So if you think there's a zoning compatibility issue You don't have to allow the maximum that the feature land use to allow.
Would we then suggest a a a different maximum or would we just deny it?
Well you can Do either. To be honest. I mean if you don't think it's compatible with the surrounding neighborhood, you could deny it or you could Recommend approval subject to them having a different lot size. or a different minimum width size uh or different minimum lot size.
I just also want to make a point of clarification to the Planning Commission that the land use is res six, which is the potential for six dwelling units per gross acre, but this development altogether is coming in at four dwelling units per acre. Few Look at it. What is R
one allow?
R one is twenty thousand square foot lots, so two point two per acre.
So it is higher than what R one eleven
is.
Okay, any other questions from up here? Thank you, Terry.
Uh Mr. Chairman Mariano. Yes, and I so just in summary, um your planning staff has come forward very positively. We've sent out again over ninety notices. The community uh at great majority uh is not in opposition. Uh transportation is fine. And again, the comprehensive plan does note separate housing stocks and different types of housing stocks. This subdivision will be separate, distinct from these other gentlemen who have concerns. We appreciate your
consideration. However, we may be able to move forward with the board. We we'd be happy to. Thank you.
I may ask one more question. Yes, sir. I I didn't pick up on it and um what kind of buffer do you propose for this? project. Do you have a buffer pro prose for this project?
Uh well th there is a built-in buffer. Um there's a considerable buffer built into the north, almost the north one third of the property is all buffer.
Um the pond is the wetlands.
The wetlands, floodplain mitigation and the ponds, that literally by my eye is One-third of the whole north part of the subdivision. Um, that's a tremendous buffer, plus those are whatever buffers on the other side. So, in terms of a consistency element, that's a tremendous expanse between the two. You also have some to the west, and of course you have Alpine Road to the east. I'd also note that this um subdivision also proposed right on Bell Lake Road. Road, uh which is a
busier road. There's impacts there, and uh this would provide a good buffer as well on noise to the uh subdivision to the north.
What is the required buffer On their Boundaries the end of the land development code.
Okay. Um so single family residential to single family residential does not require a buffer, but they're proposing ponds uh adjacent to their property boundary. And whenever there's a pond adjacent to an a a adjacent parcel, there's required to have um trees sixty feet on center. Um but the land development code does not require any kind of visual screen. Mm. Other than the trees next to the pond.
What about against the roadway, Alpine and Bell Lake?
The road does require to have a buffer.
What is that buffer?
I I I believe it's a D.
Could you explain that in layman's terms what a B is?
Yeah, I'm sorry about that. Um so the required buffer will be a fifteen foot wide buffer, I believe. Um there'll be trees sixty feet on center, there'll be landscaping around the trees and And I believe there will probably be a proposed wall, but I'm not sure if one's required for a D.
Okay. And what about to the west? I don't have I lost my screen here.
Yeah. Um so to the west is again single family residential. So single family residential to single family residential does not require one. If you're talking about Alpine, which is to the east, um that is not a collector or ulterior roadway, so it looks across the street. Street and across the street is single family residential as well. So no buffer would be required in that instance.
In reality, the only real buffer will be against Bell Lake Road.
There's no s there's no issues with relative to the uh security uh on the ponds for In other words,
like you have with a pool or anything like that. Um no, I mean they'll they'll be graded appropriately, so I wouldn't see that being an issue and that the technical team I believe is here who could speak to that if you'd you'd like to talk to them about that.
Yeah.
Do you understand my question? Um as far as
Yeah, I I believe I do. Um
I I don't think there's any restrictions when it comes to ponds. Again, I think it's a a slope issue. Um And maybe the technical team Oh I'm sorry, I thought the technical team was here. Um yeah, I I understand the concern. Yeah, I know. I understand the concern. Um I don't think there is any restrictions. I think when there are ponds adjacent to rights of way, there might be some screening required. And I and I think if I think the slope
is too steep, it might require fencing. Um I I believe that's the appropriate answer.
Thank you. He's
the expert.
Yeah.
Well Mr. Chair, is your concern mostly buffering to the north or wh uh what was the source of the Mr.
buff buffering to the north, yeah.
Well let me just ask staff the the g the part that says existing category through wetland Is it is that a treed I'm assuming it's a treed wetland? Mm-hmm.
We'll move back to the location map. Maybe the location map will be able to better show us.
Top press for the record. I gave Denise an aerial a Google Ariel.
This is probably just as just it's probably the same.
All right, that's okay next time.
I mean I think it's just as
you're upside down.
Yeah. So it's it's a little hard to see um and I I don't believe we have that that view of the property. Um but again it's single family to single family, so that's not really something that we considered when it came to buffering of the site.
Yeah, it looks more like a cypress pond or something. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay.
But I want to be clear, Mr. Chairman If the buffering to the north is a concern for you The Planning Commission has authority to require additional buffering on the north side that exceeds our code. I mean this is an M P U D, so You have that That's within your authority.
Mr. Pratt, I got one more question. Um you've hit on a couple of times the The intent the I think what I heard you say was the intent of M P U D per the comp plan is to provide a variety of housing types. Is that what you said? And have a stock of a variety of housing types available? I was referring to a a couple
or a number of uh Complant policies, yes, sir.
Okay. What I mean for what I've heard you say, you you're talking about two thousand square foot houses in a price range or price point between two fifty and three hundred fifty thousand dollars. Is that right?
The price point is is uh that number is confirmed by the developer. I'm trying to get a confirmation on the square footage. That's the best design understanding. I I don't know how factual that is. I'm trying to get the an answer for you right now on that.
You guess where I'm going with that is that seems like that's a lot of the similar characteristics to what every other Development is going up and down fifty-four. I mean I realize it's smaller lot types, but I think the smaller lot types are the point of contention. I mean I when I hear variety of product types I would think, okay, single family houses versus town homes or or y something like that. But I don't I don't know how this provides a variety of housing types personally.
It's just my if I may the comp one part of the Complant policy is referred to infill for residential infill development of vacant lands, policy HSG one point one point three. Uh where there is water and sewer lines, they will be connected to water and sewer. Uh HSG two point one is affordability that uh provide opportunities for workforce housing, which this would be. Uh goal HSG one to ensure opportunities of adequate supply of all housing types in appropriate locations for all Pasco
County residents, designation of sufficient densities to achieve a variety of housing types. So when I I always look through the complan for issues I'm working with, and I I would with great respect indicate to you that But the comp land does want quite a variety of different types of housing. This does meet workforce housing and its distancing and buffering from the other subdivision is more than significant. I appreciate your good.
I hear you saying that.
Than the other products that are being built up and down fifty four. How how is this different? It's single family housing. It's two thousand square feet, it's three hundred thousand dollars. I mean that sounds like what they're building in every community.
I I I I would only say, sir, with great respect that the elevations and product proposed is very nice and very professional, it's family oriented. It would be a very quiet, very nice little subdivision for starter families and workforce families.
What what's your diff definition of workforce, please?
Workforce is typically uh police, fire, county workers, uh city county workers, that level of type of uh workforce.
Okay, thank you.
Mr. Chairman Mariano. So I have a question of staff. Um the PUD that is directly south across Bell Lake Road, what's the density there?
I I don't have that inform the specific density, I don't have that information. Um the future land use there is res six, but I know that's not answering the the question you're looking to have answered.
Yeah well I'm trying to look at compatibility and as I look at these other developed subdivisions around Um
The P U D. So that's probably a fairly old housing stock if it's P U D, right, David? P E D's are older typically older
developments, yes.
And then there's res two
to I guess it'd be the east.
This yacht club terrace. I'm assuming that's
R two, yeah. Those are ninety five hundred square foot lots typically. Ninety-five. Mm-hmm. So you have four point six dwelling units per acre on R2s.
Four point six,
okay.
What's the minimum lot width at a
minimum lot width on R two is eighty foot wide lots.
But j just by looking at this map, I mean this the PUD to this to the south, this Kingsley Lane and all that they're
They're obviously larger
Parcels.
Yeah, those are the ones that like Um A third of an acre.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, I mean I I I have a reservation of um the level of density for this project. I think it's not a bit too too dense. Uh For the surrounding area.
Yeah.
Does anyone have a proposal? I would make the motion that we deny this request. I have concerns about the lot sizes, the density
I question whether or not it's uh
If it's actually going to enhance uh that particular part of Pasco County Lakes area. I don't know if those are concerns. Those are concerns I have. I don't know if I how I would put that into a motion to deny it, but Those are all my concerns. And and I have to say I'm still have a question mark out here about the rentals off. I know we we can't control that. But if I was an investor for two hundred K, I can go ahead and buy one of these homes and then rent it. And I think I've s I've seen that happen in other communities in this
area and in other places that I lived and people have done that. And I would If I had the funds I would certainly consider that also. But um
That's how I feel about it.
I don't know.
Well, I think if you're inclined to deny it, you can base that solely on compatibility. You don't have to get into the issue
I I know that.
that uh that I don't have a concern. If somebody wants to buy and rent, that's fine. I I've done that in the past and uh there's nothing improper about that, so I don't want that to be confused as why it's in the back of my mind.
It looks like somebody
Denise
has put up some of the zoning criteria Um If you're making the motion you might want to cite the ones that you
So y we can make a motion to deny or we can make a s make a suggestion For a less dense.
You can do that too, right?
Okay. Both of those things are possible. Okay.
Funny enough, my computer always has a shutdown while we're in the middle of a planning commission meeting. So I apologize. It was set for shutdown.
Okay. If we're going to deny it.
We we can probably cite the appropriate route if it's based on compatibility We can pick out the criteria that it would that relate to compatibilities. Probably.
Well because you were you were trying to say it was inconsistent with the comp plan Without citing the components.
David
That's why we've got him. That's different than saying it's incompatible from a zoning perspective.
Is Mr. Hansel making a motion? Yeah, that's his
motion, right? Yeah, I'll I'll second it. I have the same concerns with the the compatibility with the surrounding uh Zoning and the surrounding uses of the land.
All right. So we have a motion and a second. Any further discussion?
The only thing I would say, Mr. Chair, is one of the issues with just trying to reduce the density is that I'm not sure their plan works at a reduced density because They have neighbor parks that are based on the density that are in there is in there and so if you reduce the density It may not even trigger the neighborhood park or they'd have to redo their plan anyway. So I'm not sure Yeah, yeah.
approve this plan at a reduced density.
Because I don't know that it it'd probably have to redo the plan.
Okay.
Over to the night then.
All right. So we do have a motion, we have a second further discussion. All in favor of the motion? Opposed? Oh, she carries.
Appreciate your attention, heard your comments and thank you very much.
Thank you.
All right. Yeah. Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay.