Utilities planning capacity and development review
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The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Jan 4, 2024
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The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Jan 4, 2024
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What was said
Machine transcription of 1h 25m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 96% of 341 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Uh we have a presentation from on utilities.
I think that's our cue.
That's
your cue. That's right. Good afternoon, Chair Chairman Mariano Planning Commission members. My name is David Allen. I'm your Director of Utilities for Pasco County. And um before I turn the the the mic over to Mr. Adolfo Gonzalez, who's our um utilities engineering director, I just wanna first thank you for giving us the opportunity to present to you this afternoon. I think that you know we were In very close partnership with the planning and development staff at Pasco County, and most of our efforts are really behind the scenes in
terms of providing feedback, comment, and support on proposed development projects. And you know, as such, one of the things that we don't do, because we're service providers, we don't want to take formal positions on whether or not we oppose or support specific projects, and instead. What we do is we look at projects, evaluate them, make a determination as to whether or not we can serve those areas or those projects. And then, if we can't, identify what's needed then to support the development of those areas. And so Mr. Gonzalez
is in charge of our utilities, engineering, and project management group. And some of the main functions there include a planning function where we have a team of People that are continually looking at these development projects and evaluating them using hydraulic models of our various systems, our water, sewer, and reclaim system, and also identifying the scope, if you will, of future capital projects and future improvements that are needed to support the the customers
that are that are anticipated to to join the utility um service area. His team also has what's called a we we call it a project delivery team. And what they do is they review the development plans that come in and provide comments at more at the site approval stage. And then we also have our own technical staff of inspectors that go out and inspect those facilities as they're being built for final acceptance before those facilities are turned over to us for acceptance. And then ongoing operation
and maintenance at that point. And then finally, the other main area that he's responsible for in the engineering group is planning, designing, and delivering major capital improvement projects. So one of the big ones that we have underway right now is the Southeast expansion of our Southeast wastewater treatment plant, which is off of Handcar Road. It's a little bit to the south here, and we're actually doubling the capacity of that facility. facility and we're going from a three million gallon per day uh capacity to a six million gallon capacity. So what
I'd like to just kind of close with, and I hope that the key takeaways for each of you in terms of our presentation are are really just getting kind of an understanding of what our role is, particularly as it as it comes to planning and evaluating future projects. Also understanding really the difference between capacity, you know, system capacity and system System expansion and growth, if you will, or six extensions of what we call them. And then lastly, some of the kind of the constraints and
where we really interject our ourselves in the process when it comes to capacity reservation for projects. Because there's various, you know, certainly various planning stages that go on from comp plan approval, zoning amendments, and those types of things, but we don't always commit um capacity um at those specific phases because uh quite honestly we don't know if those projects are really coming to fruition a lot of times it's just the initial phase of that. So with that I'd like to turn it over to Mr. Gonzalez. And again thanks for giving
us an opportunity to present this afternoon.
Thank you. Thank you very much David.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, Board Members. Uh, I'm Adolfo Gonzalez. I'm the Utilities Engineering and Contract Management Director for the County. As David mentioned, our engineers and permitting specialists and inspectors provide feedback and review to the planning and development department through all phases of zoning reviews down all the way through a construction drawing review. This afternoon, I'd like to show you what our water and wastewater. system looks like, uh explain how we uh plan for capacity in our system, and then also provide
some information as to how we come up with our utility statements that you see in your packages.
Uh Pasco County has several public and private water and wastewater utility providers. The largest ones are shown in this graphic, and they include the cities of Dade City, Zephyrhills, Newport Ritchie, as well as Florida Governmental Utilities Authority, which has several service areas throughout the county. But by far the largest utility provider in the county is Pasco County. We cover approximately 500. square miles and currently serve over hundred and twenty six thousand customers in our service area.
Uh our portable water system is made up of a large distribution and transmission main network spread out throughout the county and it includes interconnections with uh four Tampa Bay water uh points of of interconnect. The Tampa Bay Water supplies approximately ninety-three percent of all the portable water that the county provides its customers. The other seven percent comes from a series of isolated and connected groundwater wells that we own and operate throughout the county. The total water
use in 2022 was around 34 million gallons per day. That's an average use. The current permitted capacity for Pasco Economy between Tampa Bay Water and our wells is about 78 million gallons per day.
On the wastewater side, we operate six uh wastewater treatment facilities. Five of them are considered regional plants. Those uh plants have a permitted capacity of 33 million gallons per day. Our current uh wastewater flows are around 26 million gallons per day. We have quite an extensive network of force mains, over a thousand miles of force mains, over 700 pump stations, and over 600 miles. Of gravity sewer mains throughout the county that collect and convey that system those flows to the wastewater
plants. All the treated wastewater, which is converted to reclaim water or reuse water, is uh diverted to beneficial use, either directly through customers or to infiltration basins throughout the county. Uh on the reclaim water side our transmission network is fairly extensive. Again, as I mentioned, about 90% of the water is used for beneficial use by our retail and bulk customers. The rest goes to infiltration basins or uh
projects such as our 4G Wetlands project just north of Sale 52, where we used to it was a it was a double win. We created or enhanced existing wetlands on this side and use it to treat any excess wastewater or reclaim water that we have uh from the plants.
With respect to planning for future growth, there are several uh regulate regulations that we have to comply with, either state or regional regulations. On the regional side, we coordinate closely with the Southwest Florida Water Management District with respect to their ten-year water supply facilities plan. The district is charged with identifying water sources and alternative water sources to meet existing and future demands within the district's boundaries. We also coordinate with Tampa Bay Water as one of the six
member agencies of Tampa Bay Water to develop their 20-year long-term master plan. Uh it's a 20-year look ahead, but they update those every five years based on consumption data that we provide them on an annual basis as well as all the other member agencies. The last time uh the plan was updated was this year. They finalized it in 2023 and they're now looking at implementing uh future uh project expansions, and I'll show you that in a couple of more slides. On the wastewater side, the primary uh
regulation that we comply with is Chapter sixty two six hundred Ford Administrative Code. That requires each utility to plan well in advance of when Demand is projected to exceed capacity so that that wastewater plant will be there in time to receive the additional flows. In our case, uh in the case of the regulations, the the planning starts five years ahead of when that projected demand intersects the capacity curve. But in our case, we back up one additional year and we start planning for those activities six years
in advance of when we think capacity will be exceeded. Yeah.
And how do we oh in addition to that I bothered let me go back. Uh in addition to Chapter sixty two six hundred there are other regulations such as House Bill 53 which requires us to document the condition, the level of service, and the service life remaining of our infrastructure. So there there are many ways that we have to plan uh uh either uh short term or long term to make sure that we have the plant capacity available and the water supply available to serve our customers.
All that is based on master plans that we develop and update every once in a while. The last master plans that were updated for the county on the water, wastewater, and reclaim water side were prepared in 2019. Those plans focus primarily on plant expansion. The plans that we are currently starting to work on to update this year for water reclaim and wastewater will also include a potential backbone. transmission main network uh for a build-out scenario for the county. But those plans have uh very
uh specific descriptions of key parameters such as population projections, flow demands, land uses that govern how we plan for uh primarily plant infrastructure. And the the primary driver of that is development growth. But then there is also other drivers such as regulatory compliance, uh safety and security uh regulations we also have to abide by, and renewal and replacement of existing infrastructure. All that along with any contractual obligations
we the county might have, those are all factored into our master plan. Developers then use our master plan as to inform them when they're developing their project-specific master utility plans for development. And depending on the complexity of the development, the magnitude of the development, if there are multiple developers involved with it, they may go one step further and create these focused area master plans such as what the villages of Pasadena Hills did for the county. uh what Connected Cities has done as
well that has the backbone water and sewer networks needed for all the phases of their development.
With respect to the water supply demand projections, we work with Tampa Bay Water to give them data on an annual basis that's then updated globally every five years to determine what specific water supply projects they have to implement on our behalf at our cost to make sure that that water supply is available before the demand exceeds the available capacity. In this case, if you notice on the the screen there the red dashed line is the existing capacity of Tampa Bay Waters system,
and the next uh expansion is scheduled to be online by 2028 to provide enough capacity to meet the needs of all six member agencies, including Pasco County.
On the wastewater side, uh that's more of a local approach that we take to identifying when a wastewater plan needs to be expanded. It goes back to that Chapter sixty two six hundred where we start planning six years in advance of when a a uh uh a projected demand is expected to exceed the available capacity. What we do is on a monthly basis we track wastewater flows coming into each of our plants, we couple that with population projection data, and we multiply the two together, use
some factors for growth uh and uh demand per household and once and then we project that forward in time using some uh some escalation Factors. Once we identify either based on a medium level population projection or a high level population assumption, we then back up six years from that and decide when to start planning the next plant expansion. In the case of our facilities, we use the medium population projection trend when planning the next plant expansion. And those
population projection trends are based on data we receive from the Bureau of Economic and Business Research. They provide this data to us on an annual basis. As you can see, the the median projection for the next 30 years is a thirty-seven percent growth and it could be as high as seventy percent growth. And what we do is we track both of those and incorporate enough projects within our five year capital improvement plan to account for plan expansions and any additional pipelines or
or uh system infrastructure needed to provide operational flexibility to move flows from one side of the county to the other, from one plant to the other. That's the extent of our capital improvement plan, which is Planned expans expansions and limited infrastructure expansion to provide that operational flexibility. It does not include extensions of transmission mains beyond our current network. Can I can I stop you and ask you a question
on go back to the slide? So did you say you're using medium currently? Excuse me? Are you using medium projections currently? So Can you explain why you're using medium and because everything I've heard from the planning department and our M PO is that we're closer to medium high or high. So I'm not sure why you're using a lower population projection
than what our planning department and MPO are using.
We use a medium because it's tracking closer to actual flows that we are getting at the plants. And when you look at e any one of those project uh plant uh flows, the black line is the actual flow and I believe the orange line is the medium projection, medium population projection. That's the only reason why we're using that one. It seems to track better than the high projection. Uh in the case that we let's say we were getting close to nearing plant capacity at a particular plant, we have other projects in place that was
that operational flexibility that I mentioned to include pipelines that sh uh move flows from one plant to the other until such time that we can then design and construct the plant capacity needed at that particular plant. That's what's happening right now at the Southeast Wastewater Plant where we're diverting some flows to the Westley Center plant until such time that the plant, the additional three million gallons per day expansion comes online.
So I guess maybe my question is for the planning department then if if you're seeing that our actual flows for evidencing a medium population projection
Why I guess why are why is our Planning Department wanting to use Hyde? I mean I'm understanding If our whole planning for growth in the future erodes and what the planning department uses at least on high.
I
mean,
maybe people aren't using the amount of water that the utility department hopefully conservatively estimates that people use. What David, what's an ERU salads per day?
true up in perpetuity because our best guess of what we think is gonna come in from growth and development is never gonna be exact. And so what we've what we've seen over time, particularly with water conservation, is that there's certain types of uh demand estimates that we utilize that have been gradually coming down. You know, think of think of as an example um you know when you're when when you're Housing product is primarily single-family home, and now we have a lot more multifamily. So on the
surface, it's really easy to understand the reduction in water usage. But in addition to that, there's actually a reduction in the wastewater usage too as you get to more dense development. So that's that kind of factors into it as well. And so that's why, you know, for our planning purposes, what we're doing is we're just we just want to make sure that we have an appropriate uh projection that we're comfortable with so that we can plan the capital improvements to come online.
I don't want to say just in time, but before just in time when the demands are really needed. And so that's what
I'm saying is that our population could actually be at medium high or high But the per capita consumption is maybe lower than when you originally assumed than what's assumed.
And then as part of our processes then we you know, as as those changes as we see those changes over time, then we would make um provisions to our design standards and those types and and our planning standards to accommodate those changes.
So you and you mentioned permitted capacity right now is a little less than uh the actual use is a little less than permanent like maybe a little l less than half of what permanent combat. And so you can transfer between stations. So if for some reason that line does intersect earlier than is expected, you can transfer between different stations. Right. Um you mentioned that was potable water. What about wastewater? Was that that was that was wastewater that
was that that exception. And and on the potable water side we don't have that flexibility just because we have Tampa Bay Water that's our primary water provider. And based on the um interlocal agreement that we have with Tampa Bay Waters, there are our
total usage of um potable water water versus permitted capacity at this time? I think it was fifty was was
thirty-four million gallons is the current capacity, uh I'm sorry, current use and we're at about seventy-eight million gallons capacity for Tampa Bay Water and our wells.
Okay, so that was potable water. So then so then the follow up question is, uh, what about wastewater?
Wastewater current use is about 26 million gallons per day and our capacity is 33. three. Okay. So we're closer on.
So we've got seven M G D approximately of excess capacity.
Yes.
And what are we two thirds. What are we using as an ERU? I was trying to do my math. earlier I did seven million gallons a day and two hundred and seventy-five GPD as an ERU and I don't know if that's the number you use or not, but that works out to be roughly twenty-five thousand housing units of capacity available. And so Mike. question is probably not for utilities, but it's gonna be
more for planning staff. Can somebody and I'm sure you don't have this data with you today, but maybe at a future meeting In 2023, how many units have we approved? We just approved 399 here 15 minutes ago.
Yeah.
And
be interested to look at the right-of-way.
the thousands. I don't know whether it's five thousand or ten thousand, but it'd probably be nice to know when the Let these folks know.
Well at some point too there has to be the connection between not just the zoning or the entitlements, but the actual building permits and and what's actually built. Agreed.
Agree and I will I will grant to you that some of the developers are in here probably entitling property and setting it up to flip it, but then there are others. some of the big national home builders who have every intent of breaking ground ASAP and building units, so It I'm not saying there's a problem, I'm just saying I think that would be helpful to be able to convey, hey, we've approved X many units so that these folks know that this they could get hit with this.
So so Ms. Rudy, if I if I could just jump in real quick. So so Uh Mr. Gonzalez mentioned our current capacities. As I mentioned at the onset, we're on we're we're in the middle of doing an expansion and so we're we're planning to have that additional capacity online I think within the next two years. And we're in the process right now of selecting a design build contractor or we just recently did for our Land O' Lakes facility. Yeah, and then in our
our our capital plan we have um funding programmed in for um either an expansion at Wesley Center or Shady Hills, depending on where the needs are. So so we're always kind of ahead of that a little bit. So as as as you continue to see those div units coming in, we're working on the back end to work.
I'm asking the question. I'd not I think
to expand the capacity of a wastewater treatment plant is not only figuring out how you're going to treat the water, but then how you're going to dispose of that water. That's probably the bigger or more difficult challenge. the nature of my question is just So that now that we kind of know, hey, wait a minute. as we sit here and approve units and approve units and approve units and approve units, it doesn't go without affecting this department.
And we should probably hopefully there's somebody keeping a tally of the number of units that are being approved in total.
And what the flow through rate is from stuff that's approved. Yeah,
I realize that it's not all gonna come online next week, but A serious amount of these right now are coming online very quick. So can I try to defend
utilities a little
bit?
I think
We're not criticizing.
a lot of what we approve should be in these Bieber projections though. I mean and that's why I asked the question, why are they not using high instead of medium? Because planning's using high and they're using medium. If they were using the same Population projections, everything we approve should be part of those population projections. I mean
Well I don't know how Bieber makes their population projections, but they just seem to me we should have to be look at historical
growth and I've sat in many meetings of the planning department about how we estimate our growth for the future And they've come to the conclusion that the best estimate, even taking into account all of our recent growth and all of our recent approvals Should be somewhere around medium high. Okay, not high but medium high. No, I'm there's been some advocates that it should be high or versus my concern is that our utility department's using medium and our planning department's using medium
high or high. Because if the planning department who who's knows about all the approvals you're talking about. is saying were at high or medium high,
But I think he gave you an explanation for that, and I actually agree with his explanation having practiced this He's saying for what they do that the numbers work out better when they use medium. They're making an assumption that a household uses a certain number of gallons per day and it's pr it's more likely that the household is not using that number of gallons they're using a lesser. Maybe they should
be changing their assumptions or their use assumptions. Not their population assumptions.
They they rely on data, for instance, from the American Waterworks Association and I think Jamie can Chime in a little bit on this. We get asked to size water meters and we get asked to size it size it using the latest version of AWWA M22. And if you go look at the most recent version of AWWA M22, it says right at the outset that the data in here is no good because it hasn't been studied since the nineteen fifties. So they don't have the luxury of knowing exactly
what every household uses Today I guess maybe they could go through billing data or whatever, but y you know, they're not getting that from the AWA. We design we design water meters based on how much water a water faucet designed in nineteen fifty would use, not after low flow toilets and low flow faucets were and low flow shower heads were required in modern plumbing.
Well and you're looking at two different data sets, right? So you're looking at population increase as well as the per capita either decrease or increase of the water usage per person. So it's it's two different moving scales that we have to do.
And all I'm tr all I'm asking is and I've have no criticism of utilities whatsoever, and I'm not criticizing planning, and I think it would be nice to know as a sitting planning commissioner is what is the quantity of units we've approved. We come in here and we routinely approve Hundreds. Okay. in the hundreds at every meeting sometimes over a thousand at a meeting. I'm doing twenty-four to twenty-five meetings a year. That
quickly adds up to the number of capacity that they have available if we keep it up at this rate.
Well, I think Adolfo's probably going to get into this as he goes on looking at the slides he has coming up. But I mean they they also have the other mechanism the later down the line tracking with the the service connection applications and and being able to track actual permitted units, even though the capacity
I think the caution I'm trying to give is not to them, it's to us. We need to be aware that every time we approve units it has an impact on public facilities.
That's all. Can I just break in for one second? Approved means going forward. We're looking at forward of water usage and particularly with wastewater. And I know I've said this before, so just bear with me for two and a half seconds. I I'd like to try to look at also retrograding communities. Up and down the street, uh one of the Avenues that I live or in the community I live in, let's rephrase that. There are a number of homes that were built, let's say 20 years ago, that are using.
Water that we drink, potable water, I think is the pronunciation, if I'm correct. I'd like to say we set some funds aside. to try and retrograde certain communities. I tried this in my community and And I had the money available to me, but I couldn't get a state senator to approve it. And it it broke my heart, to be honest with you, because I I am a firm believer in wastewater, my friends. And so that's all I ask is to look backwards to and forwards
on wastewater, so
R reclaim water.
Reclaim
water. Thank
you. Reclaim water.
Yes, you're right. And the last point I wanted to make too is when you're looking at that data, there's gotta be a a number that we can look at historically to see what the flow through from what was approved to actually what was built. And so if we can come up we have enough empirical data at this point to be able to come up with a estimate as to, you know, hey, our average flow through rate of of approved to built was seventy-three percent of all the stuff that was approved. Then we can Go back and look at that based on the number that we have now that's approved, and we say, all right, if historically
speaking, 73% of these projects are actually get built, and that's that's a much better data set, I think, than you know, because we're dealing with real data as opposed to not that not that Bieber is doing a bad job, but that is all pure projection as opposed to at least we have a data set to work off of in planning. So for what it's worth, something to look at.
For instance I've seen the statistic that in twenty twenty three there were More than five thousand single family building permits issued? Is that some am I somewhere in the neighborhood? And I have no idea how many multifamily building permits were issued. I all I'm saying is I think it would be helpful if we were if we had this data available to us. We have a great GIS system, we have all of these tools to track all this stuff.
Maybe Brad's about to tell us there is available. Or he's gonna
give us
the numbers.
No, Brad's not gonna be that nice. Uh Brad tip and planning and development. Um all of those things occur downstream from what we do. So we don't actually have data on what gets built. Those things come out through the building department through a different s different set of stuff. So data may be there, but it creates a a difficulty for the planning department to try and and pull and coordinate that. But does These guys participate in all of those these types of things at the early stages, so they're aware
of what's coming online and when. And they've made some business decisions as to whether the Bieber model matches that, or if they feel that they want to go and do the detailed data. So for them.
We can theoretically pull that, but it's degree of accuracy I we have a lot of flexibility with looms and other things so there's but we can we can we can give you some general idea if you give us a specific date range that you're interested in.
Well it's not even a a question of just how many we've approved, it's when are they gonna come online. And that we don't know. And that that's that's absolutely nobody ever knows that the answer to that question. Yeah, we get that. But we know that if they approve them today, they're not gonna come online tomorrow. Correct. Right.
So that's that that's why I think I I think you know well you can look at all the data you want to, but when I get to uh uh pr uh piece of property and I wanna develop it and I call the county and they sound say, Well we don't have any utilities there. Guess what? I can't develop it. Yeah. I mean that's really that's the reality.
Yeah, I think there's a a actual uh
We got that situation on County Line Road right now. There's a number of development properties there that are have been approved, but there's no utilities there. And we can't get it get it from our nando county because they It won't come to the table. Right. You know, so we're stuck. And What can we do about it? It doesn't matter what data we have. Right,
there's
We don't have utilities there.
There's a there's a definite uh uh break point for the the benefit of work effort. Um you could dig into the data and get very specific and come up with a very specific number, but the work effort to produce that may not be but a fraction of a fraction of a percent off of the Biber model. So it's it's a taxpayer dollar issue, it's Uh it's all kinds of different things, so it's just kind of depending on how you want to do it. As far as entitlements, we can pull some of it with some reasonable accuracy, uh, but it's not going to be exact. It's it's not a good thing.
Yeah, I understand that the the looms create an issue with the right-of-way.
I also think you may be underestimating Bieber just a little bit. I mean it's a little more accurate than you think. And part of the reason we're at high or medium high is because we're approved.
And we're looking I'm looking at his graphic here and where they're needing or planning to do some improvements are right where we're approving all these units. So
I mean, but that was my original point, which is We're probably close to high. Okay, given all of our approvals. That was my original concern about utilities using medium if planning departments using knowing everything we're approving is saying we're at medium, high or high. So They've explained the reason why they're using Medium. I I get it. I'm not you know, it is what it is. To the layperson though, it is a little odd though when our transportation planners
are using medium high, our land use planners are medium using medium high, and our utility departments using medium. That it's a little hard for the layperson to understand that, but it is what it is.
So so perhaps instead of adjusting the particular beaver graph you're gonna use is maybe it would be better to use the same beaver graph that everybody else is using, but perhaps adjust your per capita usage assumptions. Uh that that's what I was
suggesting
you do.
We'll take a look it into that and since we're starting those master plans this year we'll coordinate with planning development long-range planning to to reconcile that so that we use the same data if it makes sense on it from a utilities planning perspective.
I think what David's uh saying is making sense because it's more transparent to the average person looking at it.
That makes sense. Terry, I mean are we in fact are we at medium high? Is that where we're kind of landing on
we we are so in the comprehensive plan update project that we're working on now, we've just completed some population projection exercises. We are above medium high. So um we're pr we're we're in the high range for sure at the moment. And um to refine the Bieber estimates a little further, we actually went back and double checked against uh um against addressing, really. Against what kind of data does the GISSM
showing us versus what the projections are simply telling us, right? So we compared that data and did some hybrid analysis. And um what we what we've determined for the comprehensive plan update is to expect high growth rate over the next five to seven years, um taking us basically into twenty thirty-two-ish. Um because remember the comp plan is gonna be active in 2025. So hopefully. So
it'll take us into 2020 2032 uh at the high rate and then make an assessment at that stage uh how things are you know building up In Pasco, and if we if we need to recalibrate the projections to medium high in 2033 out to 2050, right? Or extend the high growth rate uh into the next decade essentially, further into the next decade.
Terry is part of MPO's long-range plan. Are they going to be using the same population
projection
as the
so the LRTP and the company? are uh coordinated this approach for population projections right now.
That that was basically my underlying point which is if you You and MPO are kind of in lockstep with what you're doing for population. It would make sense for utilities to be in the same
Yes. And once we uh have buttoned on the methodology, we're we're gonna um share it with utilities. We'll we'll share it with facilities as well and all the other departments uh in the county. Uh the other thing to keep in mind as part of the conference and plan update, we are doing a carrying capacity. What we're calling the carrying capacity exercise to understand how much population the county is going to receive, essentially, based on these projections, and what are we going to need to do to
accommodate the population that's coming into the county. Uh and that's gonna be um we have I don't have any answers to that right now, but that is an exercise that we're running this first half. as of twenty twenty four.
And that'll include the density. You know, are our is our future land use uh calibrated properly? Um in other words, does the res three or the res six that where we see them today, are they going to be able to receive the population that's projected to come to Pasco County? Are the are the utilities gonna be in place? Are the soft services like police and fire gonna be there? Yeah. Those are the types of things that we're going to be looking at.
Yeah, don't forget about that.
Schools, yes, absolutely.
So that's that's an exercise that's pending.
Thanks, Terry.
Chris,
what are you using? So we we get numbers from the state which we look at, but we we pretty much do our own internal and project out. We find it's because again you can't ever predict when is this this development actually going to build. So we tend to look at historical and then like if we're growing like a a one point five percent or two percent and we look at the those trends and and project out based
on that. based on student growth. A lot of ours the other thing is it's localized obviously, so we have to kinda plan for It's not just a countywide, which is important to look at, but it's also a localized where do we think that growth's gonna happen? You know. Um and then plants. I
guess the difference of schools is that general population growth doesn't always equate to student growth. Correct. Because we could get a influx of retirees and it wouldn't affect your student numbers.
And then the other variable obviously is charter schools. You know, charter schools is it'd be like somebody you don't have charter water treatment plants that just all of a sudden spring up and take capacity. So, you know, that kind of throws a monkey wrench in it too. We're not ever always a hundred percent sure on when those things are gonna pop up and consume some capacity, so you don't want to get too far. Or out in front. It'd be nice to get out in front, but Number one, we don't have the money to get that far
out in front and then also you don't want to overbuild and here comes a charter school and now you got two schools that are half full. That's not efficient either, so it's it's difficult. But we don't use again, we don't necessarily look at Bieber because that obviously that's total population. I mean we could factor out what the student population is based on that, but we just look more at historical trends of data that we keep. Um along with we
we take the county information and we track that ourselves also.
Although it looks like that that beaver data
It is.
I mean it's regional but it's it's like yeah the entire population. So then you know, then you're doing a percentages of how many of those are students and And then also we're redoing an impact fee study. They look at that data as well to try to forecast how many schools we're going to need over the next five, ten years.
Right, we're gonna continue?
Big changer.
With respect to capacity, there are many things that uh capacity could be defined as. The primary ones are shown in this graphic. On the water side, it's essentially water supply, the ability to provide the the water, along with uh the transmission and distribution network for that conveying that water supply. On the wastewater side, it's a combination of wastewater plants, uh master pump stations. and the treatment requirements at the plant determine what is considered available capacity or what is needed
to provide the capacity. And in addition to that, there's also transmission piping that's part that could be part of a capacity definition. But when it comes to transmission piping, There really isn't uh A The county does not plan for extensions of the existing transmission main network. The only transmission pipes we have in our Capitol plan have to do with again providing that operational flexibility, moving flows from one plant to the other. Um our utility rate structure also does not include
funding uh transmission main extension projects as well. The utility rate structure is basically based on funding capital plan to expansion and those operational flexibility types of projects, pipelines, pump stations, to provide that flexibility to move flows around so that we have the available capacity at every wastewater plant that's that's uh serving a particular wastewater or water service area. By the way the current revenue coming in from our utility race doesn't even meet the doesn't
even fund the full amount of the cost of our plant expansions. Our plant expansion costs have exceeded what we're bringing in revenues for just plant expansions, which again does not include transmission main. expansions. To summarize the county's current policy, the county pays for plant expansion, plant capacity, and developers pay for transmission main extensions. That's how it has worked over the last few years.
So Mr Chairman that that's the reason why you have the situation that you have. Because Your connection fees are going to expand the plant. They're not going to build lines to any particular property, and it's assumed the developer will have to bring the lines to the property. Right. There's some areas of the county where that's cost feasible, but then there's other areas like maybe on the County Line Road where the cost of bringing utilities that far north would exceed the benefit. So when her name Indo
decided to not provide utilities, that's why that area is what it is. Now It's possible that all the landowners in an area could get together and do something like what B O PH did, which is they came in and kind of agreed to do an additional surcharge on their connection fees to pay for the extension of all the lines into that area. But that has not happened along County Line Road in part because of this uncertainty about what Hernando's
going to do or not do. Right. So there are some areas of the county Everything they're talking about is about plants where there's areas, you know, there's a p a possibility of a serving of the lines. But there's whole areas of the county that are currently rural and on well and septic.
Mm-hmm.
um that unless lines get extended by the development committee into those areas, they're not gonna pay for. Right.
Yeah, they should. There are some guidelines. For instance, the public facilities element of the comprehensive plan has some distance and demand guidelines that we apply when looking at when a developer is required to extend a pipeline. Essentially, the larger the potential demand is, the farther away from our current system the developer may be required to extend a pipeline. If they don't want to extend the pipeline and they're outside of those thresholds, Then it's up to them to find some alternative way if it's allowed by Florida
statutes. Sometimes, depending on the type of development, they may not be able to build their own private wastewater facility if it doesn't have the dimensional requirements, let's say, for septic systems. But that demand is based on calculating what's considered an equivalent residential unit. Does Pasco County allow private uh wastewater treatment systems. The ordinance allows for wastewater treatment plants under certain conditions. We have generally discouraged that because uh
Uh historically privately run uh uh wastewater plants aren't managed and operated as well as some of the county owned systems and sooner or later the county may be having to acquire that system. So we've discouraged it over the years, but the awards does allow allow it under certain circumstances.
Some of our biggest water quality issues in have been in privately owned. Mm-hmm. So it's And price. I mean we we don't typically can't regulate the price either, so sometimes you have folks that are paying exorbitant prices for low quality systems.
How how many currently private facilities are there? Uh water treatment built I'm sorry, water facilities, drinking water.
I don't know, Commissioner. There there's over twenty private utility companies that are providing water or wastewater services throughout the county. But they're mostly for specific neighborhoods or very well defined developments. Yeah. That's for years there w there was no panic
series. There was one in Land O' Lakes and that's what When David brought the question forward a comment about private facilities, I just remember that one in uh Land O' Lakes have quite a few uh issues with it. Well, just asking. I didn't think there were any any more, to be honest with you.
There are some.
Okay, thank you.
Back to the concept of an ERU, an equivalent residential unit. So all our demand data is based on normalizing what is considered a projected demand on an ERU basis. So one equivalent residential unit is essentially a single family house household. What that household generally requires in terms of either portable water or generates in wastewater. Um we take that information and then couple it with the type of specific use that's planned for that development to generate what the demand
is for each of those uses. But that also depends on things such as what is the total maximum development footprint for that parcel. It's not just the overall gross area of the parcel. You have to exclude things such as open space or conservation areas, stormwater areas. areas. And that level of detail typically is not provided at a conceptual or a zoning or an entitlement phase. If it is, it's so conceptual that it most likely would be changed by the time a developer gets to the construction drawing phase. By
that phase, we're ready, the developers have given us detailed consumption projections, uh detailed land plan coupled with a proposed infrastructure plan. that determines pipe size and then we can then issue a letter of commitment that provides essentially that says that that plant capacity will be available when they construct those improvements. I do want to point out Um I back to this slide though. Uh so the three components we need are the land use
data, The the final development plan and a master utility plan for that development that creates it's based on the phasing to then develop the potential equivalent residential unit demand for the overall phasing.
With that, uh I'd like to wrap up by saying that our system is fairly extensive throughout the county. There are areas that aren't currently served. That's because uh our system is based on just plant expansions and meeting the needs of current customers. We plan for future plant expansions and water supply projects, but not necessarily extending mains. Uh and the the in you took assessment information we provide you in our planning documents. is really uh very conceptual in nature. It's
not until the final construction drive phases that we have enough detail to provide you with some level of of a higher level of confidence that that capacity will be available on the plants when it's needed.
So Can I ask you a question on your prior slide? So we've had some applications that come to the Planning Commission where there's actually been a dispute about whether the applicant is going to be required to connect to County Water and Sewer. Um and the reason this comes up is because sometimes we have objecting residents who say, Well if they're on Well and Septic it's gonna impact they argue it's gonna impact their their wells or they don't want more folks putting well
inseptic into their neighborhood.
I d I think Mr. Mooney, you remember there was that one particular application where the applicant was asserting that there was w adequate water and sewer available and then you looked it up and there really wasn't.
Correct. Um I didn't think their neighbors would be too happy when they ran a line past their house and then they got requir forced to connect.
Yeah, that's the or the opposite happens where they're forced to connect rather than
we then we other we have Another application where the land use agenda memo in front of us said that it only talked about plant capacity. And then the applicant got up and said, Well I'm gonna be on Well and Septic. And we had you know
So I guess I understand that you don't know the the details of exactly whether they will or won't, but If the land use proposal is before us, there's at least some level of entitlement or maximum entitlements that are assumed in the land use proposal. You can't tell us assuming the maximum that's built whether they'd have to connect to water and sewer.
If the developer provided that level of detail, we could make some initial finding uh whether they would be required to connect to the system or not. For instance, uh if they provide enough detail to determine the total flow demands and flow projections and then the proximity to our existing system, we could say, yeah, based on the comprehensive plan table, they're within the required distance to
Right. If they're outside those thresholds, we can't require them to extend our facilities to meet their their site, but then they may be uh restricted by what they could develop. They might not be able to get their highest land use if they now have to result uh revert back to wealth.
Is it affects density decisions as well. So there the commission may say I'm okay with a level of density that you're requesting if you're on County Water and Sewer. But if you're gonna be a well inseptic, there's no way I'm approving that many units. So I they have to have at least some indication about whether the developer, based on what they're proposing, would be required to connect to County Water and Sewer. Previously I saw an email chain where it sounded like you are willing
to provide that information.
approvals that are coming to the Planning Commission. Is that still accurate?
It is. We would rather not provide it at that stage because it just it's too conceptual in nature. But if the developer provides in their application specific uh demand projection data that is converted to equivalent residential units. They tell us where the development is, we can see where the existing infrastructure is. Look at the company's plant table and determine.
I mean we could just make that part of the application requirements for the rezoning.
So in the last Uh we only had one comp plan amendment today and it was for con land, but In the Uh during our last you weren't here, David, but during our last Planning Commission meeting we did have comprehensive plan amendments. And that the data that you're talking about was actually included. There was a statement this development is anticipated to generate X many ERUs water and wastewater demand. The nearest reclaimed water line.
Water main or near a sewer is but they they did do this.
I just want to make sure that that is going to continue. I couldn't tell from your last slide whether you intending to continue that practice.
We would rather not provide that information for the entitlement phase for t there's just too many unknowns. For example, uh Okay, well I'm not sure that answer is gonna work for
Planning Commissioner Weightman. So so so if if if I could break it down, I I want to take us half a step back first before we get to proximity to to
And this this helps helps for me to understand kind of the the the broader issue that we're we're we're having a conversation on. So one is that if we have utilities that are readily available Right in front of the property, those types of things. I think that that that again we then look at that and say, Oh yeah, we we could we could serve that based on them meeting whatever requirements. If they're outside of if if they're if there's not utilities in proximity to that, we
do not want to be in a position where we say, Yeah, we can or can't serve that because we don't know whether or not we can. That's number one. And number two, we don't know if they're actually going to connect to our system. If developer over here is three miles away and they're willing to build the system to connect it, then then that's when we say, okay, we can look at whether or not we'll take on that capacity. So that's kind of the what I would see is the brackets. But I think that where we're at now is then when s when there's a project that's
in between and whether or not there's a requirement that they have to extend our system and and we generally look at it from a um estimated demand standpoint. You know if they're if they're if their demand is is X and they're within Y, then we would say yes. If it's larger than Y, we would say no, they're not required to do that. And I think that I think uh David to your point is if we can if if we're provided the information on what the demands are We should be able to make that assessment in terms of okay that
that falls within
So my question is does does our rezoning application
form need to have an additional blank on it for the where the applicant provides that it that estimated demand information.
Well,
it may if if if that is if if that's critical for this body to make it make a recommendation and decision. Well so like for instance,
David, we have a case, it's currently under continuance, we're waiting to come back, so I'm gonna be careful about what I say. But we have a case where s an applicant came in and wanted the maximum possible density on a property in 40 foot wide frontage lots and there's no utilities Anywhere near The site. And we asked the applicant, are you willing to connect to water and sewer? And unfortunately
the applicant couldn't commit to us, so that's why that case is continued and I don't know when they're gonna come back and answer, but We clearly can't approve them to have forty foot wide lots if there's not gonna be utilities because you can't build Right. A septic system on a four thousand square foot lot. You need to have a half acre by state law. So th that's I think that's what David's getting at. We need to have some information like Like that. We had the industrial park case. Um up on 41
where that was an issue. They want they're proposing wells, the neighbors were upset about it, and we wanted to know was it actually feasible for them to have potable water service to this industrial park?
The comp plan provides guidance on when somebody has to connect. Correct. Okay. The problem is is this body typically doesn't know How many ERUs that particular development is generating, nor do they know how far away the closest utilities are, unless that information is in their memo. It's got
this nice chart right
here. Right, but that's all the theoretical, but but you don't know even if you know that information, you don't know how far close the closest utilities are. Unless somebody tells you. The difference with utilities is on roads, okay, they can look at an aerial photograph and know exactly the condition of the roads that are in in the vicinity. To the best of my knowledge, there's no easy sort for them to look up and say there's a twelve inch water line or a ten inch
gravity line and this and this is how far away it is from the property. So how do we how do how would the Planning Commission get that information during the
lastly provide that as part of our staff's response when we coordinate with planning and in our previous package we have that information disbodied. I think what what Mr. Gonzalez is talking about with us not providing the information is when when it's a a comp plan that goes from um an ag to a res three Right. We don't we don't know what that means from a water d demand standpoint and that's why we we don't want to commit and say, Yeah, this is what it is. But if if the applicants
are saying, hey, this is what we're looking at in terms of estimated use, then then we can apply um the criteria that that that's in the comp plan and and make a yes or no determination based on that.
Would you not know? be able to estimate. It's three it's three dwelling units per acre, you know the number of acres, so that's that's the maximum there could be but And I will tell you that generally it'll never achieve the maximum, but that's the max that's that's the maximum possibility.
Yeah, and and I think it it ties back to the elements that are listed here on the slide where where we're, you know, even though that may be the maximum, we know that that's not what it's built to. There's open space contribution and those types of
things. In the transportation world I know they use sort of a percentage of the maximum, just they call it a reasonable yield analysis where they think they take like sixty-five percent of what the maximum future lane use would be and say that's the reasonable yield for this property and then they just assume a number of trips based on that reasonable yield. I think Commissioner Moody's point is why can't you do something similar for utilities and just say this is what we think the reasonable yield
is of those entitlements. Based on that reasonable yield we think that they would or would not have to connect to our utilities located this far away. Because
once we approve the entitlements it's a pr
the
the cat's out of the bag. No no that's
that that that's that's a fair question and I think I think the res the response is really embedded into a couple of things. Number one One is at the phase that those entitlements are issued. getting back to the fundamental we don't know if they're gonna get built or not. Even though that that entitlement is has has been allocated the facility, we don't know if it's gonna get built and the one thing that we don't want to do is build everything on entitlements because then we would have
I think we may be confusing two different issues. Okay. Nobody here is suggesting that you build your plank capacity based on a theoretical compliant amendment or that you go out and start spending a bunch of money because somebody asked for res three. Right. What I'm asking is can't you at least say based on the complain criteria if they got some percentage of the say sixty five percent or would just as come up with a number of what's approved, would they or would they not have
to co connect to County Water and Sewer and where is it? You know, th that's I I don't think anybody's asking you to commit that you'll provide the water and sewer to them, commit that you'll have plant capacity. I think all I'm asking for is can you at least tell us how would the comp plan apply How would the common plan criteria apply to this project?
Because if it comes down the line that they don't have the ability to connect due to budgetary constraints or whatever, then th the whole application becomes moot. No no I no I can save them a lot of money.
There's there's a certain percentage that can really be developable, right? Because there's There's area requirements. You have setbacks of those types of things. The thing that that we look at it from our standpoint is we've always been looking at our services based on the actual demands. And we use the single family unit as kind of that basis. And so, you know, we could we could look at that, but I think that our first cut at at potentially coming up with appropriate percentages,
we would probably need to rely on the develop development community um to provide us with that information because we don't we don't track it at that level. We're tracking it more on
that's why I suggested you at least look at what they're doing on transportation. Because the development community has accepted their reasonable yield numbers. They have the same issue in transportation. Okay, so somebody assumes C two zoning or R four zoning
And if they made them analyze all the traffic for the maximum C two zoning, it would probably blow up every road in the area. So they don't do that. They say we assume that you'll only be able to get sixty five percent of what the the zoning allows and that's w how we're gonna estimate our trip generation. I I'm not saying it has to be exactly sixty-five percent or that you but the development committee has accepted that reasonable yield to estimate trip generation. I would think that there'd
be eas a number you could come up with to estimate Water and sewer.
Right.
No, no, I I and I and I completely agree. I think that that again if if we go down that that approach, implement that approach, um again it's it's really just that preliminary first look at a project, right? Because we're not again we're not tying down, we're not gonna reserve capacity, we're not gonna build capacity. But that that could be a tool for us then to utilize that, overlay that on our projections and see, you know are
we are we on track with those or do we need to to respond to those more
that's why I want to try to sort of divorce the capacity conversation from this conversation because I think your whole first part of your presentation was we build capacity based on population projections. We we're not going to mess up the plant capacity issue. I think even Mr. Moody has agreed that you're not going to mess up plant capacity you've gotten to that point, right? Okay. So I don't think this is an issue of plant capacity or anybody expecting you to go out and start building a bunch of plant capacity.
Well I think the discussion got started because we got a report that said there was zero uncommitted capacity.
So you've now convinced us that you've got plant capacity under control. Right. The issue we the but the Planning Commission has to decide when they're making a land use decision for forty foot lots or you know U is water County Water and Zoo available or not, or do they need to connect or not? That's not a plant capacity discussion. That's a proximity and ERU discussion. Right. Yeah,
because the application says we're rezoning from res one to res six and so then we figure okay that's four ERUs uh per acre for res six is what our f we figured out our flow through is. Then you can kind of figure out how much how many ERUs there are per for that particular project and then say, okay, well based on that number You're gonna have to connect and then we can say, Okay, well it's three miles away. And we go back to the developer before it ever gets to our hearing to say, All right, you're gonna have to connect based on what we figure projected flow through.
No,
I think I think we're all talking the same thing. Yeah. I think we're all talking because of the
That way we don't have to approve that that entitlement, which is then you're you know But here's
the thing that you gotta take into account though. You can't withhold entitlement from a landowner just because there's no sewer available. You can't develop it. But he still has the right to have the entitlement. Or the or the zoning change. Just because the sewer's not there yet. Doesn't mean that he doesn't have the right to apply for an entitlement or a change of zoning.
But if it's far enough away, I think it does lead to the question that Mr. Moody asked for that one application is if it's beyond the distance the Complant require them to connect, I think it's reasonable for the Planning Commission to ask the applicant, are you willing to connect five miles away? I agree with what you're saying,
but
but But he the applicant should be able to say I'm willing to
Build a
line five mil five miles away to connect.
Or you might say, you know, I'll wait for the line to get there. I just want the entitlements. Uh I because I've got I got a couple of those. And I've got a people that are actually going gonna go on ahead and getting their entitlements even though they're not gonna do anything with the property for several years.
Planning this planning decision for the Planning Commission, because you could argue that if the infrastructure is not there yet or it's not even feasible for the any time in the next twenty years, maybe that project is premature for that level of density.
Well yeah, absolutely. That's that's a different question. All I'm saying is they have a r they have a reasonable
I know but or maybe you condition the entitlements and say we'll give you Ten units now and we'll give you A hundred units when you have water when you have sewer.
Yeah, I mean obviously it's gonna be subject to them being able to connect. Right. Yeah, it's no different with the substandard road
or something like that.
We had y you weren't here the last time but we had a case where the applicant came in and argued for an increased density entitlement and claimed, well this is going to be a four this is going to be a four lane road. And then when we asked, Well, when is this going to be four laned we found out it was sometime in the next decade. Beyond the next decade. Well so it wasn't gonna be four laned any time. soon and what the proposal was was a
bit premature for the area.
The other thing is sometimes it can affect whether you're proving too little density. Because sometimes if you need to extend a sewer line five miles, you may need a minimum level density to be able to pay for that the extension of that sewer line. And so if if I think it's irrelevant to the Planning Commissioner decision. If if you're if the public's coming and saying I want a lower density But you know that they need a minimum just to to extend the sewer line. That's something you I think we want to know before
you start.
Which that's like the Moon Lake case we looked at. We they wanted six or seven lots and we said I I can tell you right now it's not feasible to run a line in here To service those six or seven lots.
Yeah, you don't want someone ending up with entitlements that are unfeasible and then flipping the property to somebody else thinking, okay, I could build on this and Well that'd be a
moron that would buy that property. But you the point the point is is that unless No no com no comment on that We may have had a few applicants that have fallen in that category.
If if you if you can condition the property so that whatever entitlements they get, they have to have the appropriate utilities to go with it. You know, and if they're willing to wait or if they're willing to run the line or whatever they're willing to do, But I'm just saying that That uh there I think in my mind there's no reason for them not to there's some people Tak you know, if it takes two years to get entitlements. People are thinking, Well, I'm gonna go ahead and get my entitlements because two years from now I wanna be able to sell it and close on it.
You ever been down to Pontaguorda?
Many times.
Okay, so A company who's famous for selling swampland in Florida develops a
Develops a bunch of lots down there that are five and six and seven thousand square feet, builds roads. There's entire neighborhoods where there are all these lots and all these roads, and there are no houses because there's no utilities out there, and there are all these unsuspecting morons that bought these lots, sight unseen from places up. north and that we'll never be able to build on these things.
Well there's a certain amount of reliance on people like us to do our jobs, right? In the in the planning development.
But I mean I actu i that particular company I'm referring to has got quite a few of these developments all over the state that look like that. Well
we've got some here in Moon Like Estates. Thirty five foot lots, hundred and ten feet deep. And
the difference with utilities, like I said earlier. It's unlike roads where you anybody can any moron can drive out and see that it's on a dirt road, okay. There may be some people that don't realize driving to the lot that it doesn't have water and sewer. 'Cause it's all underground. They would have no way of knowing. They're not Sophisticated enough to check it. That's why they hire attorneys. Not everybody hires an attorney, but or an engineer or we've also learned that. Just because you're an attorney
doesn't mean you know to call you need to go and the engineering contract management website and ask for a copy of the Atlas map either.
But even that, even if it were referred to the Alice map that shows where the nearest utilities are, and that's the distance we would give that information to you along with the ERUs provided by the developer, that doesn't mean that that pipeline that's closest to the development site has the capacity or the right size to convey the flow to it. So to what level of detail are you expecting the developers to provide information to us?
Water models to determine if that nearest utility that's within the proximity threshold of that comp plan table If that's the correct pipeline they have to connect to.
Or it may require a force main, you don't know.
So you can see that that's that's our anxiety in giving you this information now that it it could imply there is either capacity or an allocation there when
you're in pointers you can say we're not sure that the pipe size is adequate. You know, this is the closest pipe, this is the size of it, we're not sure if it's adequate the size with I mean you can put all this I mean We've included that in the current utility. Part of the problem is up until recently we were getting no information. Right. Something's better than nothing. So I understand your anxiety, but the more information you give, even if it's got disclaimers on it, it's still better than nothing.
I personally thought what was presented to us when we said you weren't here in our last agenda memo was
You keep saying we weren't here.
Sufficient. We missed one meeting and suddenly
But they've done what you asked. They did it. I would tell you there were some inconsistencies as to what constituted an ERU, but at the end of the day I think that's probably something that can get worked out. But the basic statement was in line with what you're I mean I all I was looking for was confirmation that they're
that they're gonna continue to do that. So yes. We're gonna continue to provide the statements we provided just in the recent package. Okay. Which essentially ERUs provided by the developer and proximity to the nearest pipeline.
Would that explain why the ERUs were different I quickly checked a couple of 'em and and I had this exact table that you had there out of the utility manual and I'm like, Well, I don't know where how they calculated this because then the math didn't add up but and there were four or five Com plan amendments that were on the agenda that day that had the statements and I couldn't get any consistency in the ERUs. So is it that the developer calculated those?
Yes, we're not doing those calculations. We're confirming the data they provide.
All right, fair enough.
By the way, I would like to thank you for coming and explaining to us how you do your utility planning 'cause if I recall the Planning Commission at one point asked for a similar presentation from fire rescue and the sheriff. And we never got one. So I appreciate so I thank you for coming in and explaining this to us how you do your planning for utilities. I appreciate it.
However, before you take off,
you don't handle the thank you?
That's the best my friend.
I'm not trying to trap you into anything. Famous last words. But I realize you have stormwater management down here and I kinda know what that is. And I also know what sewer systems are and I know when I flush the toilet the water goes someplace or when I turn my fossa sink on, the water goes someplace. And I hope that water is converted into What? Reclaim water. Reclaim water. Thank you. Uh my
gentleman over here on my left here.
And I'm sure Mr. Moody had brought this one subject matter up about somebody who was trying to develop something and I brought up stone water. I'm s keep cat keep that me.
Reclaim water.
Reclaim water, thank you.
I kept bringing it up several times. And the gentleman to my left, Jamie over here here, brought it up to my attention, they can't pump it that far because the water pressure or the s system was not available.
There was a statement in our last agenda package that said You previously had a policy that if they were within X many feet of a reclaimed water line they'd be required to connect, but you were making some adjustment to that policy. I think you were shrinking the distance down. And Jamie and I tried to give our best explanation to Peter as to why that might be, but I think what he's asking is to hear from you.
I just want to see reclaimed water utilized as much as possible. I know I had advocated for it at that particular time and I realized that the distance from point A to point B was too great. Mr. Jamie Oakley pointed out to me as Mr. Moody did too. Yeah, I I am uh an advocate of reclaim water and they made it clear to me why I couldn't go that far, but I still advocate for it anyway. So I will be quiet now. Please understand reclaim water is important.
Well going forward with it and builders, developers, bringing it into communities, and I still br believe in the fact that it could be retrograded into communities too.
Thank you. Thank you for your comments. We do still encourage the use of reclaimed water, but we have made some adjustments slightly because uh the available reclaimed water supply is nearing our capacity to provide reclaimed water. Essentially for every household that receives potable water, we need about two houses back in terms of wastewater to treat it, go through the plant. disinfect it to then turn it around and use it as reclaimed water. We just don't have enough supplies. So what we have been doing lately is uh one reason is for environmental considerations.
For instance there are parts of this county in the northern part of the county that's within the Wiki Wachi Springshut Basin that has additional nutrient management requirements. So we're gonna stop requiring developers to provide reclaimed water irrigation systems within those because we can't meet the nutrient load requirements for that that that spring shed. There are also other developments that because of the tight footprint of the development, townhomes. for instance. We're not requiring reclaimed water because there's just simply enough green
space to send out for the developer to s pay the cost of that reclaimed water distribution system to to lessen the supply that we have available. The other challenge we have with Reclaim Water is that in addition to all the irrigation customers we have, I mentioned the 4G Creative Wetlands project, which has been an award-winning project for us, but now we're obligated to continue to send reclaimed water to those wetlands to make sure that we sustain the hydro periods for those wetlands. That's less water we have available on any given day to provide to customers. On
the reclaim water side, we do not guarantee pressures every day of the week. We pressurize the system certain days to our customers to use. For those days. So that combination of those that limited demand, limited supply right now, and the way the system has just grown over time. We're we're kind of constrained as to where we can require the use of reclaimed water. Right now it's mostly to new residential developments within areas that are continuing to expand within the reclaimed water network.
I I remember John Gallagher once told me, he says that Uh one of the counties to our south indicated that they were dumping water into uh Tampa Bay. So
I was gonna ask the same question, is aren't there s some surrounding jurisdictions that have an excess of reclaim water? Is there any way that we could start getting getting piped to us? City Tampa for example.
City Tampa's the best one of the best examples because they don't have a a reclaimed water system they're currently discharging to the bay. Um I think upwards of fifty million gallons a day is is is roughly what their discharge is and and with with uh um S B sixty four that's supposed to go away. There's uh there there's a requirement that all um wastewater plant discharges to water bodies is supposed to terminate in the state of Florida. And so there's there's certainly an opportunity there. Um what Tampa Bay
is looking to do potentially is utilize their reclaimed water in some type of either blending or exchange for additional drinking water supplies um so that they can they can um offset their their flow requirements for the Hillsborough River. Um but but kind of getting back to what Mr Gonzalez was saying with with the reclaimed water system When you look at at the development of Pasco County, you know we have the west side, Newport Ritchie, those areas where we have a lot of
density and those folks aren't um connected to our reclaimed water system because they were built at a time where where they just had the the drinking water systems um providing the irrigation. So we've kind of had what I would call this the savings account of reclaimed water uh that's been generated from that part of the county that that then we've had to manage and and you know as little as five, eight years ago we had too much reclaimed water to where where we were um primarily
using land application to dispose of it where we would allow the water to percolate back down into the aquifers as a as a s the source of recharge. But we're now getting close to a point where or um Uh our demands on the reclaim system are matching what we're able to get out of the wastewater systems. And for each new house that comes in, it's not a one-for-one. There's actually more that we need to provide to irrigate each household. So we're looking to as part of you in this master planning process, figuring
out how much further can our reclaimed water system go? Um and and then also looking at different ways. that we could potentially stretch those supplies as long as possible. So I think all those are on the table and we're looking at all those and and and also continuing to look at how we manage you know the supplies that we have.
Spring shed.
Where would the would the reclaimed water come from the Shady Hills plant? In that area or where where would that come from?
That is the most direct location and source for that reclaimed water. But our reclaimed water network is interconnected with all the plants. So as the state looks at it, they're looking at us.
And are our plants AWT plants or just
kind of chuckling to myself as I hear that. We're not gonna provide reclaimed water because we may be adding excess nitrates into the spring shed, but we're not going to extend sewer up there so that we keep them all on well and septic in the same area too. That's That's quite the conundrum to be solved.
Yeah, and we and and and we're we're addressing that too as as you know as we're looking at potential ex extensions of the sewer system. In addition to that, we're planning the utilities department's planning to bring forward a grant from FDP which will um provide funding to private parties who want to convert to advanced septic treatment systems to help reduce with the neutral. load. And so I think it's like a two million dollar grant that we're we're in the process of finalizing and then we'll bring bring that to the commission for their approval.
So that that'll be a kind of a way again to address the broader environmental issues with the with the higher nutrient loads in that area.
Another quick question on the reclaim water thing. So w do you have an idea of what percentage of potable water customers or dual metered cis um customers? In other words, one meter for irrigation, one meter for potable water? I don't.
Um I I think we we I I mean just rough numbers, we we have close to a hundred and thirty, hundred and forty thousand potable connections.
Okay.
And the breakdown of that is
dual potable connection. So it's still potable water, but one's for irrigation use is the right-of-way. Right. So
so I would just say anyone that has the the reclaimed likely has the potable next to it, because we
don't
have very many
reclaimed only. But I'm talking about the there's some households that have two Po it's connected to they're both connected to potable water lines. But one's uh it's two separate meters so well. So that you don't get filled for the sewage. So you shouldn't get built for the sewage side of it basically. So one's one's designated for irrigation and Maybe I'm not following what the the question is.
He's asking if do you know what what percentage of your customers have irrigation meters not necessarily using reclaim water but using potable water such that they don't have to pay the sewer charge.
Oh no I don't I don't know what that number is. I don't know what the irrigation only um customer account is.
Because that could be a good indication of the reclaim water demand right um that and how much water potable water could be saved. And then so you look at your percentage of people that have those dual potable water meters, uh uh potable water meter and reclaim meter and people that just have the potable water.
Just think if we approve more forty foot wide lots with hundred percent coverage, we won't have any irrigation demand.
That's right. Bring out the concrete.
That's right. And that's an issue. I'm glad
to see you smile.
Sounds remoteable.
Thank you guys.
So if there's no other qu I again, I I I would just like to you know echo and and thank you again for giving us the opportunity to meet with you. I'm I'm hoping that this will help um in terms of us moving forward and and probably the key takeaway um just from you know from us as staff and you as you as the planning commission, I think the key takeaway for us is is you know looking at the the the when Land use proposals and um you know, to the degree that we estimate what the ERUs are, we'll provide
information in terms of how close the closest utility are is and whether or not um, you know, w we'll have some disclaimer about capacity because even you know, even to the to the degree that it could have capacity today, there could be others that connect to it, but but we'll we'll figure out that language and then start providing that and I think we already are now with our updated changes. So we'll continue to work with with the planning and development staff and and hopefully um get you the information that you need.
So if we have questions on that on those issues, uh where do we go? Go to Terry.
That's I knew he was coming up here to volunteer. That's
no I think I think you know you know our preference would be that you continue to work with um planning staff uh because they're really they're the liaison to the other departments within the county. Uh Um unless unless planning staff have to be.
So in other words, don't call you, you call us. But um I didn't know.
That's not what they told me. Yeah.
So I I don't know if you guys the advantage of them putting the information in the agenda memo though is hopefully we have less questions.
Yeah. Right. Because they they
put the information in the agenda memo.
Thank you very much.
Right.
Okay. Thank you, Mr. Gonzales.
Yeah.