Committee reports and Live Local discussion

1:31:46Okay, so now we'll go to committee reports. Uh Commissioner Oakley. I have a fear.

1:31:55Uh had the opportunity to visit with the Advent Health this week. They uh had a ribbon cutting on the new cath lab. Did we have some pictures or not? Maybe not.

1:32:11If not Oh there you go. Yep. And that's in Zephyrhills and Advent Health in Zephyrhills, so

1:32:18Yeah.

1:32:20Very new new very new equipment and uh to get the job done. So Also I had um The pleasure of speaking at the first pre first Presbyterian Church in Dade City. Uh just gave them an outline what's going on and in East Pasco County based on the uh flooding that we've had and and a lot of the issues from this flooding. So a lot of people think the flooding just started recently because we had more than a I heard somebody say this morning one and

1:32:50two hundred year flood. We actually had a one and five hundred year flood. Um And it always floods when we have those kind of events here. First time in my life during these floods that I saw the river actually come up to 301 and underneath 301 going to the west. And that hadn't I've never seen that in my lifetime. I've been here the entire Seventy-nine years, uh It's um those things that happened. Then I w went on to

1:33:20the opportunity to go to the governor's luncheon and uh there at the State Fair last Thursday and got to see uh my friend Wilton Simpson and uh others and uh Mr. Moffat was named the uh citizen of the year in the Tampa Bay area and it was well deserved. So a lot of people there I see that uh some of them from Dade City that lived in Tampa for years, but they Like uh Tommy Tatson that they just did the new uh

1:33:51park down here at coming in the south side of Dade City, the new park he dedicated to his uh mother and uh from many years ago, but that's that's a new design on that park. Very well welcome. Then we had uh

1:34:11Pasco County Fire Services, there we go. More and more New firemen coming into Pasco County. And the um the D shift is on its way. So We're uh we're getting a lot of uh it's it's a total change within the last two to three years of our support with the firefighters and all that how we've changed. People are wanting to come to Pasco County instead of being run off before. Two years ago we lost In

1:34:42uh public safety lost like s I think seventy two. um employees and And this past year we only lost two. So it's a big change and I I don't know what that number be this year, but it's I hadn't heard that number yet, but We've got a lot of good firemen. I know uh in that graduating class this this week there was some EMS And firefighters actually were coming from Plant City back into Pasco County. And they actually live in Pasco

1:35:12County already. So It's just great to see that. uh had the opportunity to participate in the employee appreciation day yesterday. Well I could tell you some secrets about that, but Probably um I probably don't need to talk about it. But there was three men there from Our staff That Well I'm not gonna say what I said to them yesterday. That wouldn't go over good. Well we had three

1:35:42Davids picking up trash, so but they did a great job and stayed up with it. Uh it's like the three Musketeers, David Allen, David Engel, and and David Goldstein all working together and uh made a great team out there. But uh all the staff and everybody that helped, we uh certainly had a gr I think everybody had a great time. Especially in the What do you call that? Puff ball or something. What is that ball that everybody's

1:36:12in? Uh Kabbalah took a hit and went on the floor and Well he never made the floor because he's got this huge. ball thing around him. So but it was a lot of fun watching that and seeing different ones do it. But just a great day and I think everybody really enjoyed it. That's two years in a row at that park. I don't know why, but that park seems to allow us to be able to do that. with you know for feeding anywhere from uh 2,500

1:36:43to 3,000 people. And I think they told me at one time they made to take out to different firemen and I they took out uh over seven hundred dinners to feed the firemen and others that had to be working at the same time we had appreciation day. So We surely thank everybody that took part in a great thing for Pasco County. And this is the kind of thing that continues to make us premier. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah.

1:37:21Oh sorry, so I'll get my pictures ready to go.

1:37:28Very respectful and patient. I appreciate that.

1:37:32Oh slightly

1:37:33humorous. Yeah. Uh so good stuff yesterday, Mike and and team. Um enjoyed being the slow man. with uh Commissioner Yeager watching my six as the slaw lady, slaw woman. Um, but enjoyed seeing all the happy faces. Commissioner Oakley's right. I mean West Chapel District Park works out fantastic. Great offerings for all the employees to. do all the different activities throughout the day. I don't know if you have a headcount, but it seemed

1:38:03like there was more participation this year than last year. Um, just just beautiful weather at a Chamber of Commerce Day. Uh, some more good news. So Pasco County, I don't know if Kees here.

1:38:17But Pasco County, um, we're gonna be hosting the twenty twenty-six Dixie Softball World Series at Starkey Park, which is pretty cool. And um, you know, as that event draws draws near, want to make sure that it's a a fantastic experience. The um Chris Nelson from the Uh West Pasco Girls Fast Pit Softball Association put it a bid. And we won. And so there's gonna be 18 teams from nine

1:38:47different states coming to the Starkey Ranch District Park softball fields. And uh as we know, you know, we we're trying to balance the needs for fields and field space and Softball, if softball keeps growing, it might be uh uh uh something we need to take a look at, especially if we're starting the sports coast brand takes off. And we're starting to capture more, you know, notoriety and folks coming into the state from from out of state. And uh so eighteen teams from nine different states and also include four teams

1:39:18from Florida, which is pretty cool. And so that'll take place uh July 17th through 22nd. And um so as that draws near for 2026, you know, hopefully we'll get some good pictures and notoriety out of that. Uh and the last thing just to put on everybody's radar, I don't know if Goldstein's here. But I'm not sure if you saw email, but we have another Live Local Act application. Quite frustrating. uh going into an existing luxury apartment

1:39:48complex that sits directly Uh west off Oakley Boulevard behind the grove. Um it's a it's a really nice complex as it stands today. Yeah, it's a Canadian based company. and uh they're looking to seek to file their exemptions. We'll see what The uh housing fork from up in Tallahassee says and uh we'll take it from there. But um, you know, the Live Local Act. uh isn't going away it seems and

1:40:18there's definitely holes in the program. and uh significant unintended consequences, especially for Pasco County. And so since we're in the legislative session, we have another real life example for our lobbyists to use and um you know maybe we get our delegation or somebody from up there to come look look Look at the complexes that are applying. Uh, you know, obviously they're gonna wanna come in and target Wesley Chapel. uh which is seemed to have been ground zero. Um you know, it's the

1:40:48highest producing tax revenue district of the county commissions and I think they're just trying to find a way to gain the system. So anyway, just wanna give an update there.

1:40:59Sure, firewood. So and comic if I say this wrong, but on On a land use decision. We have all the flexibility we want in making a decision tip for denial on anything, correct?

1:41:12In the comprehensive plan you have legislative you have Legislative discretion. When you get to quasi judicial, you have much less discretion.

1:41:23Right. So let me in the zoning. Yes,

1:41:25the

1:41:25zoning. So I'm gonna I'm gonna say I think we need to just at this point until we get this whole thing resolved from here on through, we should put a hard stop on any apartments coming in. on land use decisions. Because you could get stuck some other time down the road. And just kind of let's send a message out there. So we do have flexibility. We can't do it in zoning, but we're gonna do it in land use. So we at least consider that and if we want to decide to l go further with it, then so be it. But I think it's something we can do and we probably should send a message out there. We don't want to see this live local stuff.

1:41:57I think it's clear that we say no to the live local. We've got it what we're seeing now is existing complexes. What's it a five year? Role or three year role from when they had their CO essentially?

1:42:11Yes.

1:42:12Okay. Um Yeah. I don't know how we deter that. I mean Well if you put a stop I mean if we so moving forward, like what would be that line 'cause you have projects in Q Well

1:42:26you continue to opt out every year and Then while they can apply if the if they are outside the target area or if if you've opted out of Live Local. Then It's not discretionary for the property appraiser to give them the tax break.

1:42:49And I can let David. fill in the details for you, but but The first year we had issues because they didn't give us the ability to opt out. We're now into a into the next year that when we had the when they modified the legislation the second term. We can now pass those resolutions, which the board has done. So how do we do that to existing Build.

1:43:18So the opt out applies to existing builds too. So when we opted out So with the particular parma complex you're referencing, the property appraiser intends to inform them that we've opted out and that the school board has opted out. So As long as we can continue to opt out. We should be generally safe on the tack side. We're not safe on the land use side, but on the tax side Work as long as that Schumberg report still continues to show that we have a surplus in the Tampa Bay MSA,

1:43:48which The last two years has showed that we have a surplus. In fact we have an item coming to you on the next agenda where we're gonna opt out again this year. 'Cause we still have a surplus. So as long as we continue to have a surplus in that eighty to 120% of AMI range, we can continue to opt out. The other thing I want to add is that on new land use approvals, new MPUDs. Um anything that has multifamily entitlements, we make them waive the right to seek that tax exemption.

1:44:18So to what Commissioner We Mariano's comments

1:44:25If the board goes that route. And there's not Inventory. Then what's our vulnerability? In twelve to twenty four months.

1:44:38I mean I I'm not sure. I mean,

1:44:42I'm not sure that's gonna necessarily help you because You need to keep up your inventory. Th the fact that we have a surplus is what allows us to opt out. So if you Stop allowing it completely. At some point you may lose your surplus. And then you won't be able to opt out. So I'm not my personal opinion is I don't think it's a good idea to necessarily say we're gonna stop all Multifamily. Because you At least the way the legislature

1:45:12has structured it structured it, you need to still have a surplus. in Tampa Bay MSA to be able to opt out. So then it

1:45:19industry would probably pivot and attack our industrial, more commercial zone properties and use the land use piece. I mean yeah

1:45:25they also tell you that there Ralph Lair just sent me there's a proposed bill this session That's even worse in my opinion because it it allows existing office and hotels to convert to multifamily apartments. and get tax breaks and be exempt from zoning and land use. This thing just keeps evolving to a bigger pile of crap. I I don't disagree with you and I'm when when Ralph sent me this proposed bill, I said this is even worse than Lib Local because This means that you could have

1:45:55approved a project for office or light industrial or hotel. Assume that's what you're getting. They create jobs, create tourism, all the things that we want. And then A year later they convert to apartments. And there's nothing we can do about it.

1:46:13This is so the new bills live local on steroids. Yes. In a more negative way. So the legislature's potentially passed some of the worst piece of legislation in a very long time out of there. Now they're doubling down and Following

1:46:27something that's even

1:46:27a little bit of a couple of

1:46:27things. They call it something nice. They call it adaptive reuse, which makes it sound like it's some great thing. But really it's being able to convert office buildings, hotels to multifamily residential apartments. Even and these could be hotels and office buildings that we gave a break on mobilities fees to because they were hotels and office buildings. Or maybe we gave them tax incentive because they were Office buildings. And then they turn around and convert to apartments.

1:46:59I don't know if that bill's going anywhere. I don't know if Ralph is here to speak to it, but But but I mean all the stuff that Mr. Crona works on to get all these wins. With office and light industrial Could just

1:47:12well it's concerning. You hear this Ford, we want good quality hotels. We want to go from C level to B and A level hotels. Commissioner advocates for it all the time. And it just This is just it's troublesome.

1:47:27And and as you say, Wesley Chapel is the highest district going on when we have a lot of the first thing. For instance, Advent Health, uh Dordy German built the hockey rink out there. That came in, that brought in all sorts of hotels. All of a sudden we get stays up here. That enabled us to go build the WireGrass sports campus, brought even more. So they the money that it generates is phenomenal right here, rather than going somewhere else. I I think we did a great job with hiring three lobbyists, one especially close with the governor, and maybe we

1:47:57uh set a meeting up with the governor's office to try to find out where he is at in the bill. Because if he's against it we know it's gonna well, it may not even stop because

1:48:05they may have a submitting I mean y the bed taxes are incredibly important to the legislature, right? Let's let's not hurt the bed tax opportun the opportunities that the bread bed tax provides every county.

1:48:21I just wanted to follow up. Ralph Lair, Intergovernmental Affairs Officer, uh from what um David Goldstein said House Bill 409, adaptive reuse of land, that just was filed. They're in the House. It does not have a Senate companion bill at this time. We'll continue to follow that bill and see where it goes. As for the Live Local bill that passed a couple of years ago, Senator Pasadomo has made the statement in an article that she will revisit the

1:48:51issue since there's been so much negativity coming from local governments.

1:49:00So we stand poised to Mm, sit down and talk with her. I've created a uh a a one page discussion point that we can share with our delegation as well as her if she wishes to engage uh that conversation with us. Uh and we will continue to do Um your wishes as we move forward in this legislative session.

1:49:24Who filed the bill?

1:49:26Uh Caruso, representative Caruso.

1:49:29From where? Where is she from?

1:49:32Um he's on the east coast of the county, I will say during the uh special um session. He had a um he butted heads with the speaker who then I believe stripped him of his chairmanship in his office. So I don't know if his bill will move at all on this

1:49:51session. It's just interesting That a I don't know, it's a Republican member. Mr. Yeager?

1:49:58I didn't. I I heard everything I needed, my question.

1:50:01Okay. Do you think there's a chance, Ralph, for a permanent out of opt-out provision that you could put in there?

1:50:06I don't know if they'll if they'll address that issue. I mean, I think you're seeing more and more local governments following us and and seeking the uh opt-out with a tax exemption. Uh and have been s uh very appreciative that we were able to get that in um you know previously in the previous session. So That's good to see that our local other local governments besides Pasco County does see that it has a negative impact on them. And uh You know, they're they're doing the same thing is opting out of the tax exemption. What

1:50:37we're trying to address, hoping moving forward, is either permanent and also address the land use issue.

1:50:44I think if you could get the permanent and I and I hopefully with the lobbyists we've hired in our delegation, if we get that out there. That would solve this so we have to worry about from year to year to year and we can actually plan properly for what we're gonna go do. It would make it a lot easier for everybody.

1:50:59This is just my opinion. I think the reason why they they don't want to make it permanent. I think they want you to prove that you do have um uh enough uh a product in your community to to receive that. So they want to make sure you have a surplus. Um that's just my opinion, but that's what we will work toward is trying to get a permanent solution. Thank you. On the tax exemption. Mr. Whitman.

1:51:25Ralph, so Essentially this the the bill in the Florida legislature is forcing local governments to build multifamily housing stock, rental stock. So say An incorporated city or county, you know, they they want to prioritize levels of home ownership over rental. This uh H if you want to I mean, it's gonna be a full time job for somebody. And or a a job for s for somebody. I

1:51:56mean, Mike, we're gonna have to keep up with rental stock potentially and then be very deliberate on where and when, you know, to Commissioner Oakley, where and when multifamily product is approved. That way we're not in violation, but it doesn't it doesn't s stop the the spread of the multifamily product. It doesn't allow proper planning to put the multifamily product in. Maybe a particular area that we want to see it in I mean if we end up segregating certain parts of the county and say only multifamily here and

1:52:26you just have Whatever county just loaded with all the multifamily product. A is gonna have a bad look. I it's Just a mess. It completely handcuffs the planning operation for every council and Board. in the state. So I think that's an important piece that we really

1:52:48need to discuss with them. Um the other thing I would add to that is that our real deficit on the rental side is below fifty percent of AMI. We just got a report done. I just got it literally today. We don't have much of a when you get into the even above 50% of eighty, one twenty, we don't have a serious deficit of rental housing. in that income range. So Part of the problem with Libocal is it just misses the mark. I mean our need we have a need for rental. But it's below

1:53:18fifty percent of AMI. And then we have a need unowner occupied. We actually have a This report shows that we have a deficit of the easy. Owner occupied affordable housing. But Lib Local doesn't tackle that at all. Doesn't do anything to help owner occupied. affordable housing. So I think you're right, Commissioner Weightman, that our bigger problem in Pasco County is probably affordable owner-occupied homes. But Libal Locals is not addressing that. It's only looking at the rental. Even the opt-out is

1:53:48only looking at rental. It's not looking at Owner occupied. And so It's not that we don't have an affordable housing need in Pasco. We do. But Lib Local is not targeting what we actually have a deficit of.

1:54:06And I'm happy to explain that to anybody that wants to listen to me.

1:54:11Yeah, I just wanted to add something to it because We've approved quite a bit of multifamily coming in my district. Out around Curly Road and Pifty Two. There's if you think about the numbers of some of those apartment complexes that are coming in. We're gonna have an overabundance of apartments coming, especially in that area. That comes in with V OPH. So we'll be seeing that for a while. Yeah, I don't I don't

1:54:37I mean I don't I'm not predicting we will have a serious shortage of the upper income apartment. units in Pasco. But we are gonna continue to have a deficit in the lower income. When I say lower income, I mean below fifty percent of AMI. So that's where we have a true need throughout the county, not just in any particular

1:54:59but what you're gonna see is What they're approved as, and everyone go file who they file with HUD. Uh they're gonna file for the exemption a year or two down down the road. Like you're starting to see the trend of existing Luxury apartment complexes without estate owners. or investment firms filing for the exemption. And so as Commissioner Oakley's point is they come on with Connected City, because currently in the plan, the only titlements that are left. Or what multifamily?

1:55:29I mean, I think that's a good thing the the vulnerability is great. and what's potentially approved. And so we approve it for one thing today and then twelve or twenty four months later You know, the exemptions are are are there. So and it's gonna be the same thing in V O P H or wherever else. in the county. It's gonna be a game. It is a game that

1:55:53they're playing. I agree with you and I I guess if we were getting true affordable so what the legislature did not remove is the opt out for or the tax exemption for below eighty percent of AMI. That was you can't opt out of that currently. However, we don't have a single apartment builder that's actually seeking it. because they won't build below 80% of AMI. They they they probably 'cause they're at that point they're starting to lose money. Without some some re some kind of

1:56:23subsidy. So You're right, that the only people that are really seeking the tax exemption or playing this game are the ones that are charging market rate rents anyway. So that's why they're not meeting our need.

1:56:36I'll say

1:56:36later

1:56:36on in my committee reports after we get done today, I'm gonna actually bring up a project that I think could actually Go after the low MI, AMI for not only rental but for ownership.

1:56:47Right.

1:56:47Right along the coast and be a lot safer and hurricane resistant.

1:56:51Well another another question is um if they opt out when they're first coming in to build their development for a multifamily Within the next five years, they can't opt back into that.

1:57:04If if they are subject to one of our newer approvals, they have a condition that says they can never opt for that tax exemption. Okay. But that's only the projects we've approved since Live Local that have that. I I mean If it's a project that was approved prior to Live Local, we had no idea that tax break was ever going to occur. And the three that actually sought the tax break all happened. We approved those well before Lib Local ever existed. And then they built their project. They've been up and running Sometime in the last five years and then

1:57:34they sought the tax exemption. Unfortunately, the first two were denied by the property appraiser. That was good. And then the third one. The property appraiser basically could tell them we opted out, so don't even bother pursuing this.

1:57:50The only reason There's a minor technicality which is that Each taxing authority has to opt out so We opted out, the school board opted out. We're not positive that mosquito control opted out or not. even though they have a very small amount of the tax bill, in theory they could seek the tax exemption for just the mosquito control taxes, but I'm not even sure that's worth Doing. Where I guess it's mosquito control and swift mud. May not have opted out.

1:58:16But as a county and for all our citizens, we do need to look at affordable housing and affordable apartments when we can. I think

1:58:25if in my opinion based on the report I just saw If you have a project that's below fifty, sixty percent of AMI, that's something that we do have a shortage of and that you probably should be encouraging. Right. In addition, when you get to home prices owner-occupied that are below three hundred thousand. that's something that we have a shortage of that you should be encouraging because we don't A lot of the single family that we're approving now has no restrictions on price or affordability. And so it's We probably have a surplus of housing, single

1:58:55family housing that's Higher priced. And a deficit of what's lower priced.

1:59:01Okay.