Citizen question about family property divide and plat

1:34:21early. Yeah. Um Okay. And I have uh before we do adjourn I have w have a question about something that a um a citizen a came to me about and maybe I can get an explanation. Get some input from the board. You know, I know we have a rule where if You know, if you s want to sell off a piece of your land Unless it's a parent parcel, you have to

1:34:51subdivide it

1:34:52and you have to plat it, is that right? Brad, is that you? I'm gonna let Brad Tiv and answer that one.

1:35:02David. David? Huh? No, we're good. Well I mean there's a state law that if you subdivide it more than once, that it triggers the requirement to subdivide. No, the state statute says

1:35:17Okay, what wait a minute, let me get my question out so we don't go around circles. Um

1:35:24We have a situation here in the county where if there is a family that owns a s substantial size piece of property. Let's say pick a number, let's say five thousand acres. Um within their family, the par the parent dies, leaves it to the sons, they decide to divide the property up, put it in the sons' names. There's three sons. Picking that as an example. One of the sons then has a son. goes

1:35:55off into the world and comes back as a veterinarian and he wants to have his business here. And his father wants to give him ten acres of his property that he got.

1:36:08And now he's being told that he has to go plat it. And he's got his he he's got his building permit, he's got his everything else. What I don't understand It may be a law, maybe maybe he has to apply it according to the law, I don't know. But it seems to me odd that If you have a child you can't give him a piece of your own land without platting it.

1:36:37Okay, so that's a a I'm not going to say an oddly specific question, but uh I think I know the situation that probably prompted this discussion. I've been in contact with some folks about it already. Um there's a couple of layers this. One is the state layer. The state layer, like Dave was uh explaining Mr. Goldstein was talking about requires that's not

1:36:58wait a minute, wait a minute.

1:37:01There

1:37:01there's a layer that requires subdividing and then the the local county government we have our certain exemptions that we can allow to that process. We have three different ways to achieve the subdividing and then there's a a number of exemptions. One of the exemptions that we have is called limited family lot division. Um that is an option in some cases. Um there are strings attached to that, which may or may not be something once a person hears about it that they want

1:37:31to actually participate in. But it it really does kind of depend on a lot of more specific details related to the situation. So those can manage that.

1:37:40What are the strings? Are you ever is that

1:37:42There are some very specific definitions of what family is and what it means as far as passing from one landowner to another landowner. In this case, any subsequent landowners are also bound by that same thing. If the if he gives it to his son, then the son wants to give it to somebody else. They're gonna have to subdivide it through the standard procedure. They're gonna have to come back. So it actually places a burden on the next generation. So we tend to, most people don't, they're trying to do it to not burden the next generation. So

1:38:13we usually don't recommend that as a first option because we do have on larger properties like that, we do have some things like minor rural subdivisions and no improvement plans that are a little bit of an easier subdivision process that can be done to create that same situation without those burdens.

1:38:34Uh there's three. There's a standard there's a standard subdivision process that any subdivision has to go through. Uh then there's a minor rural subdivision, which is kind of a reduced amount of requirements. It's a limited number of lots that you can create. You have to have certain types of land use and zoning uh in the area to do it. Uh then there's also the uh uh no improvement. It's called a no improvement plaque, but it's really a subdivision plan. Uh that's also something similar. That's when you have lots that already have water and sewer out front or whatever

1:39:04it may be. Uh everything for the infrastructure is already there, pretty much. So these three

1:39:09options defined

1:39:10by state statute? These are these are county county ordinance. County ways to address the state statute.

1:39:17All right. Thank you, Brad. Um so if I wanted to get get more specific or be or set up a face to face with these people to get us together.

1:39:26Yeah we can we can have a a a meeting uh to discuss all the options. We do it during pre-apps they can come they can talk with us. We can we've had a few emails back and forth on situations if this is the individual then I've already presented all of this information to them and and they declined. Yeah great. So but but we can do whatever we'll we'll sit down with never talked about it.

1:39:46Okay. Brad, what I mean uh J John Jack Mariano. I'm

1:39:51very aware of the case that you're talking about. Mr. Tippen and I had lunch today and spoke of this case already and I spoke to a county commissioner about that on the way here. But just a clarification on the state statute. So that there's no misconception. The state does not mandate that you plat land every time that you divide it into three or more parcels. It says if you create a plat, it shall follow these standards, but it doesn't require you

1:40:21to plat. That's a local decision. So don't I don't want there to be the exception that the state is forcing a plat. No, but I mean is it a local decision or a local ordinance? It's our own local land development code that requires the plat, but the state statute does not require a plat. It says if you create a plat, it shall meet these minimum standards.

1:40:45So that's but it does define a subdivision as divisional and into three or more lots. For the purposes of that statute.

1:40:57So it's it's something the BCC could address. They could address the existing LEC and ordinance.

1:41:06Well I'm sure that I'm not gonna play county attorney here,

1:41:09but that's Yeah, I mean I I'm just I just think from a practical point of view, if if I'm a father and I have a son that wants to build on my land and I own a hundred acres. And I I can't give if I have let's say I have five sons, I can't give 'em each of 'em five acres

1:41:28that will go on third

1:41:32I don't think it would probably be proper I know a whole lot more about this case than I'm gonna say about this. I think the problem is is there's some He can use there's a there's a section in our code that's called the limited family plot division that contemplates this kind of thing. You you mentioned that the difficulty here in this particular situation is how the property is owned. It's not owned in In by an

1:42:03individual person, it's owned by a corporation, and so then there it becomes the question, is a corporation a family? Brad and I asked I asked Brad the question at lunch and he does not know the answer to this. For instance, are the officers and directors of the corporation all family members? This is going to take some legal interpretation, but there if the code is actually set up to address the situation. just that because of how they've chosen to hold title to that property,

1:42:33it creates some conflict with how our code is written. But I'm betting that a great legal mind like Mr. Goldstein can resolve it.

1:42:41And I think part of the other problem is that this may be the first split that's below f there's an exception if it's over forty acres, right, Brad?

1:42:49Yeah, there there are actually exceptions that could apply based on the size of the parcel that's created here. So we in in I I have to go back and look, there's a very specific it's essentially if if the future land use is looking for a higher density area and you have a large piece of land, you can get closer to that density by, you know, doing some larger pieces, cut it into two pieces and two medium pieces, or something like that, basically. It's kind of the the dumbed-down version of how it how it reads. Um and there's three different ways that

1:43:19that can happen is based on different land use countries. categories, but this particular one could do that, I believe. I would have to go back and look, but but the parcel I believe that was created again, not getting into too many specifics, uh would have been too small to meet any of those criteria.

1:43:36Yeah, it's it's just slightly under ten acres, so it's the same piece I'm talking about.

1:43:40I would just say from what I know of the case. It sounds like if you put a couple of good minds in a room There's a solution to this problem. And it's just and it's simply because of how they hold title to the property. I think that can probably be solved. A good lawyer should be able to solve this.

1:44:01So who dealt besides David should I have in the room?

1:44:06It might need a real estate order at it from what when John's describing it, but 'cause I don't know how they structured all of these well that conveyances.

1:44:15Right, and it's this isn't the right forum, but yes.

1:44:18I I did already recommend a meeting with uh certain individuals that I think would be relevant to that discussion. So I think that's already more.

1:44:24But you assuming this is the same group, would you let me know then when that meeting is?

1:44:31Sure.

1:44:33No, I haven't arranged it yet. They're in the in the process. Isn't it amazing

1:44:37how quick Word sprays?

1:44:38Right? That's pretty impressive.

1:44:42Yeah. Okay. Is the last name begin with a D?

1:44:49Yeah, it's the same problem. Yes. It's far too many coincidental specifics there.

1:45:03All All right. Okay, so uh yeah. Let's let's get a meeting together if you don't mind then and uh so we can get this requested.

1:45:11So it does the meeting that was requested does include another public official. So

1:45:17As long as it's not a planning commission member, that's not a problem.

1:45:27So are you gonna make the contact?

1:45:29It's already been made. Um it's in the works. Once they coordinate it I will ensure that You're invited. Thank you.

1:45:38And I will let you go instead of me. Yeah,

1:45:40I was gonna say I'll probably leave it up to them as to who they want to invite, but uh

1:45:45very

1:45:45good.

1:45:49You probably bet the better one to go, John.

1:45:51Well it it it actually goes to a comment David made. Th when I've I'm still learning all the specifics, but the more I've learned about it It's it this can be fixed with the right real estate attorney, right? real estate experience and how we hold title.

1:46:13Okay. Let's do it. Okay, great. Just want to solve the problem. Yeah, I the reason I wanted to do it in this forum is because I I wanted your all of your input. So I can't do that otherwise, so

1:46:29And we do have three different process I mean it's not just one process. We have three different processes for three different types of scenarios and then we have essentially four different exceptions where you can carve out a property uh either through the three different means that David was mentioning or or the limited family lot division. So we we've got a lot of options and I don't know that other places have as many as we have, but we've got quite a few ways. It's just when you get to something that's in a weird nature. They can't hit any of them. Well

1:46:54and then somebody wanted uh had a property and they divided it in uh six or seven and then they got mad because that triggered a school concurrency review because

1:47:04it's Then you gotta

1:47:05build a school on

1:47:06your project. You're always trying to create a problem. I know. I know. Would you just send Richard next time? Okay. Is he easier? No, not really.