PDD 22-2096 Jacobs Holdings Mitsubishi sign height increase
What the county recorded
This item is not from the published agenda
It is a stretch of the recording that this archive identified as a separate matter — a call to order, a recess, or something taken up that the agenda does not list. There is no official title, no staff recommendation and no disposition, because the county never recorded one. Everything below is inferred.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Dec 9, 2021
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Dec 9, 2021
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
What was said
Machine transcription of 36m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 71% of 182 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Planning Unit Six? Yes. Liam Divine, Planning and Development, PC six. If you guys are ready, I can continue. Yeah. Yes. Okay. PDD 22-2096. In the name of Jacobs Holding, WC L L C and Jacobs Mishubishi Mishubishi, sorry. It is an alternative standard request to increase the maximum allowable height on one monument sign from 11 feet to 20 feet in exchange for our overall reduction in total signage on the property
in a C2 general commercial district.
The subject site is located on the southwest corner of the intersection of Eagleston Boulevard and Bruce B. Downs Boulevard.
And this is the look at the aerial view. The surrounding future land use to the north, south, and west is MU, mixed use, and to the east is PD, Plan Development.
The surrounding zoning to the north and south is C2, and to the east is AR and MPUD. And to the west is M PUD.
The subject site will consist of the proposed Mishubishi Wesley Chapel. Vehicle dealership to in development in C two general commercial district. and is located on the corner of Eagleston and Bruce Beast Down. The access to the property is from Eagleston Boulevard, which is privately owned and maintained. The surrounding area is characterized by commercial uses consisting of the Lexus of Wesley Chapel and Wesley Chapel Toyota, Wells Fargo Bank, and Village Market
Shopping Plaza. The applicant is requesting to increase the height of one monument sign from 11 feet to 20 feet in exchange for a 47.5% reduction in a sign structure area for a ground sign from 200 square feet to 105 square feet, and a reduction of 83% of the wall sign area from 255 square feet to 45.02 square feet. through the elimination of an unconstructed ground monument sign on
Bruce Bayes Downs Boulevard and an unconstructed wall sign on the east side building elevation facing Bruce Bees Down.
And this is the proposed monument sign? And this is coming with a recommendation for approval with conditions.
All right, Liam.
Any questions?
Yeah. The applicant present. All right. Anyone here to object?
Nobody object?
Not in person we have to do that.
Oh, you
have
someone on WebEx. Okay. All right. Well you wanna hear what what the objection is before you speak or you wanna speak now?
Let's hear what they have to say.
Okay.
Thank you.
Very good.
Good afternoon. I'm Barbara Deacon. I um my office is 2905. Barbara Deacon.
Okay.
Okay.
Hello, can you hear me?
Ms. Deacon, we cannot hear you.
We cannot hear you.
Okay. And we're working on it. But once we get to hear you, if you would please state your name and address for the record and whether you have been sworn. Thank you.
If your audio is muted. Can you hear me?
I'm trying to speak.
Put an audio settings.
You just repeat everything she's saying.
Um
It tests.
Humanity. Does
it have a fine in here with a speaker on it?
Yeah.
Can um I'm speaking. Can you hear me?
I can hear one quick, but I transferred to the other. Hello. Ms.
Deacon, we cannot hear you. So we're having uh there's some technical difficulties on prob possibly both ends. I'm not sure. Both
ends, I'm not sure. Okay, I'm trying to speak.
Can I I it's my understanding that she's audible on YouTube. Is there a way to play her through YouTube
on our
speaker
system? Speaker System.
So somebody somebody can do it. We like the sheep too.
Should I be logging in somewhere else?
I can see everybody on the panel and I can hear
Yeah.
Shall I proceed?
Questions for can we just direct them through you?
Can can you try to speak together? Try to speak together?
Can you hear me?
Ms. Deacon, the uh other WebEx participants can't hear you.
I'm sorry.
Ms.
Deacon, please state your name and address for the record and whether
you've been sworn.
My name is Barbara Deakin. My address is [address removed], and I have been sworn.
Seed you have three minutes.
Seed you have three minutes. Thank you. I appreciate your time today. I am the managing agent for North 232 Property Owners Association, which manages and maintains the property that contains the Lexus dealership, the Toyota dealership, and Eagleston Boulevard down to the Bay Care Hospital that's currently under. Construction. The board of directors have asked me to register an
objection to the increase in height of the proposed sign from eleven feet to twenty feet. Primarily because there are three existing monument signs. on Bruce B. Downs Boulevard that are eleven or twelve feet tall. There is a monument sign for the village market, which is 11 feet tall. The Seven Oaks Monument Sign at Eaglston Boulevard is also 12
feet tall. And then the Wells Fargo monument sign, which is directly south of the proposed dealership, is also 12 feet tall. As the staff recommendation report indicates, there was an alternative standard. sign uh approved by Pasco County for the Lexus of Wesley Chapel. However, the the variance in that sign had a
frontage on I-75, not Bruce B. Downs Boulevard. So the Board of Directors for North two thirty two would ask that you consider Maintaining a consistency of 11 to 12 feet tall monument signs on Bruce B. Downs Boulevard as opposed to approving a variance for a 20-foot sign, a 20-foot tall sign for the proposed dealership. Uh I thank you for your time and
your consideration and hope that you'll um That you won't diminish the size of the existing monument signs that currently exist on Bruce B. Downs. Thank you very much.
All right. Thank you. Thank you.
Okay, if you wanna come up and
Stay your case. Stay your case. State your name and address, please. And please,
Commissioner. My name is Mark Branchley. I live at [address removed]. I represent the owner Jacobs Holdings. Wesley Chapel L L C Uh Barbara was selective in her
Excuse me, you have been sworn?
Yes, I happens one. Yes. She was very selective in her uh description of the number of twenty foot signs. uh and eleven twelve or twelve foot signs up and down Bruce B. Downs. I did not know there was an objection, otherwise I would have provided the commission with a a series of Google Street View Maps would show Within, and I just have it on my phone, within 500 feet of this intersection, Eagleston, which is which was mentioned, is
a private road. And Bruce Bowns, which of course is a county road. There are six twenty or in excess of twenty foot signs. north and across the street, from this sign here. Uh Sunny's BBQ. Um Taco time, I mean it's obvious that uh she was very selective in her discussion. uh with regard to the limitation of eleven foot signs. So We are the
dealership is complying to the 11 foot along Eagleston Boulevard in front of the dealership. Which is the private road. But on Bruce B. Downs, which is a public thoroughfare, which is an arterial. With with fast moving, heavy traffic. This this ordinance allows through the standard, alternative standard process. Increasing a sign from eleven foot to twenty feet, provided that there is a reduction of signage on the property,
and it's a 35% minimum reduction. As Liam mentioned. If we consider the reduction of sign area on monument signs, it is Forty seven percent reduction. And considering the wall signs reduction, That they could have Built on e uh the walls facing north to Eagleston. Or East to Bruce Bowns. They have reduced the amount eighty-two
percent. So we are significantly greater Then The ordinance allows as a minimum reduction. in order to allow one sign to be increased to 20 feet. And because increasing this to 20 feet, is really very compliant with the this existing area. As it gets closer to uh route uh fifty-four. Um it is very uh
consistent. and harmonious with this commercial neighborhood. as well as they're very fast and uh Busy traffic of um Bruce B. Downs. So we have clearly met all of the the measurement requirements as well as the aesthetic and cultural and um emotional. requirements that the ordinance requires us to show As findings of fact, to comply with the current um uh
Pasco County uh comprehensive plan. and all of the uh intent and purpose of the Sign Code. Any questions for me?
I have a question for staff, not really for the applicant. Um I don't know, Deliam or Denise, which one of you handled this? So I guess I'll ask you both. Um So one of the criteria in the code is that it has to be compatible with other nearby signs. The agenda doesn't only shows a picture of this sign. It doesn't really show pictures of the other signs in the area. How did staff determine whether it was or was not compatible with Other nearby signs.
So Mr. Brentley did um discuss that there are other signs at I think he uh mentioned um the Sunnies, I think he mentioned uh the bank is a little taller than um the 11 feet that um Miss Deacon stated. Um also there is a Lexus as stated that also applied for a um an actual alternative standard as well. There is a variance that's also granted in the area. Um and there's a Granted, some of those signs
did um were approved under the prior versions of the sign code, uh, but there is the compatibility aspect of those signs. Additionally, um, Mr. Brentchley or Jacobs Mitsubishi is foregoing the installation of a monument sign on Bruce B. Downs Boulevard because this sign will actually be on Eagleston Boulevard. They're also foregoing the installation of wall signage along the east building elevation, which
will also face Bruce B. Downs Boulevard.
So I guess in some staff does think it's compatible with other nearby signs?
Yes.
Yes. Yes. Denise, can you show me a site plan or area? What exactly is the location of this site, please?
Sure, of course. Do you have it in your PowerPoint?
I'm gonna do a Google Map or something like you can show me please.
They've said seven up.
Well.
Roberto, I have it here if you'd like to see it.
Okay, I'll just share open.
Here's Eagles and this is the twenty foot ground sign here. This is this is the bank here. So this is the proposal.
Yes.
Clark has to be able to pick up your conversations. So so you probably need to get him back at his mic and then say whatever you're going to say to him there. Okay.
The
reason why is that I was at the podium is I don't think my microphone was working, but it does sound like it is now. Very cool. Okay. So I'm showing the subject property, which is at the southwest corner of the intersection of Bruce Lee Downs and Eagleston Boulevard. So as you can see, this parcel has quite a few feet of lineal frontage along.
on the road. So this parcel can have several monument signs along Eagle Stone Boulevard and it can have one monument sign along the Sweet Downs. However, in the conditions of approval as provided to the Planning Commission, they are actually foregoing the installation of one monument sign along Eagleston Boulevard.
And they are also foregoing the installation of wall signs on the east building elevation that would fix Eagleson Boat Larry.
So that maybe that will give a better perspective of the location.
Can you at least do a zoom out a little bit of this map? as soon out, so I wanna see a little bit more of the area.
Okay, that is fine. My only concern here is that when you make ref reference at the the the business that they have higher sign, those businesses have been in the area for over fifteen years. No no doubt about it. So those are Sony's Taco Bell. He's having business, I don't know if it's grandfather, but they are have those have been there for over fifteen years. We have a new rule, so new rules that we updated. To follow those. The reference with the Lexus
sign that is higher, if I'm not mistaken, is facing 75. It's not facing Bruce B down. is totally different in my opinion, the perspective that we see it. This is facing Bruceby Down at the west sides of Bruceby Down that we have a if you do a zoo-out. We have next to the lot, we have the South Side's Wells Fargo Bank. And the rest of that is residential plus the new uh bay uh hospital that is building there. A
question for you, the hospital requests a higher sign for them or no?
Okay. D You see, we have green, green, residential. The only building that we have from there all the way to the south that is 56 commercial unit is 56 and a couple of shopping plazas that we have around there. All these buildings have been followed the rule of the Higher Designs. So I cannot compare this request with the signs that are at the at the north. easy that we were have the public plaza uh the the taco bell. My
concern and I go going against this one is just for that. I don't see why we cannot have a sign that follows our rules with the Mitsubishi Uh exposed, I believe it's a grey load, a great lot. And it's in the area that need to be, like you like they say, they have Lexos, they have Toyota. And I understand there are going to be a new dealers at the south side of these loads facing 75. But uh That's only my comment that I have. Thank you.
All right.
Any questions for the applicant?
Well, I I guess I have a question for the applicant and staff. Is there any Physic if they were to build an eleven foot sign, I guess they could build an eleven foot sign as a right. Is that correct?
Yes, that's correct. Uh they can build an eleven foot sign as a right and then the code also allows fifteen percent addition if they use um like architectural features. So you could really build a taller sign in eleven foot.
What's the maximum they could build as a right?
So Are there any I guess barriers to visibility of a thirteen foot Sign. In other words, is there is there trees there that would prevent it from being visible at thirteen feet or Some other Feature that Did It would block the bottom Thirteen feet of the sign.
Uh no that there would not be. Uh based on my s uh several site visits to the location and uh based on their their site plan that's um in the process of being reviewed, uh there would not be.
'Cause I do remember I mean, I was probably the only one here when Luxus got approved. I guess Denise, you were probably here too, but I do remember that part of the reason DRC approved that one was because of the interstate it's because of the way the interstate was oriented relative to the business, you couldn't see the bottom.
if you look from the interstate. And so that was one of the reasons it was allowed to have a higher sign. I guess what I'm asking, is there anything similar to that occurring here? And you're saying no.
No, there isn't anything similar than that. I I do recall that one. I did write that up myself and it has to do with the the exit ramp on the interstate and uh different things having to do with the grade of the sign where the lexis was gonna be located. You don't have that situation at the
So I guess I'll ask an applicant the related question then so Why do you need the other s if it's not for visibility, wh why do you need the additional seven feet apparently that
it it is visibility? Um because of the uh Mm the dealership is m is not really located facing the street. So they're foregoing any Uh identification. on Bruce Bowns, except for this sign and it Twenty feet high. is has been proven visually and uh geometrically to be a much more visible sign than an eleven foot sign. And And and it's it's important to note that the ordinance talks about compatibility.
And to the earlier question. Whether or not we're not going to be able to the signs that are in excess of twenty feet. are in a former ordinance or whether they are in the current ordinance, it doesn't matter because compatibility is what it is. Are these is this sign going to be compatible with the neighborhood, with the commercial area around it? And if they are Prior to the current ordinance. that does not enter into compatibility. It is what it is. And this ordinance
allows the increase up to twenty feet and it caps it at twenty feet. In fact that's that is mentioned three or four times during the application. Is there a Is there going to be any sign over 20 foot on this property? And of course the answer is no, because that is the absolute maximum. after all alternatives are considered throughout the county. And so um we clearly meet the conditions of this specific Uh code.
This specific site and all of the uh discretionary requirements that are imposed upon the opportunity to increase As we forego uh eighty five percent of signs on the building and fifty seven percent signage on walls on monument signs. So we are clearly Complying to the code. in trying to reduce the overall impact and proliferation of signs. Putting one sign instead of two monument
signs. That's a good trade-off.
would like to make a another comment in reference to your words and I express it exp I appreciate what you say. I drive every single day across that land. in front of the Lexus building as well. I live in Seven Oakes. So I can tell you that the expose of the sign of eleven feet is more than enough there. When you see compar the weak keep and we follow the design of the areas around it. I disagree with you. When we go ab we pass the north Is
that the right-of-way? corner of Bruce Bown, that is where those signs that have been there for a long time that are taller than uh 11 feet. You cannot see from this lot, as soon as you pass that one, driving south, any of those buildings. When you go south, you see just green area in every side that is estancia at east. Um seven Oak so the West. The new structures that have been built there following the new role, including the Bay Care Hospital that has been there, they haven't followed those 11 feet. When
you say I want to I want to reduce the size of those signs that you are going to build in the existing design that you have for the Mitsubishi Rit uh dealership. is fine with that, but the expose that you have to those leaderships are against the Englishone Boulevard. And the lot, the shape of the lot, give you enough expose to understand that it's a misummission dealer there. No doubt about it. Could you speak
a little slower? I'm having a hard time
understanding. I will go back and I will start again. So basically, I disagree with you when you say that design match what is around the area. Is not When you drive south from fifty four all the way Brisbane down to fifty six. You see. Green areas and South of this lot you have the new building that Bay Care are building for a new hospital there that follow the
ordinance that we have at this point for these type of science. The same way when I see the shape of the lot that is facing Eglish English Ton Boulevard, you have enough expose and that is why you can reduce the size of your signs. I understand you wanna build a twenty feet ground sign. Mark his sign facing Bruce me down. I don't see why, because a at eleven feet sign, well designed, will have exposed enough and will keep the design
standards that we have. That is all my point, and I just disagree. We to build or increase the height of this sign there is We try and we keep trying to keep building without those variants. We are going to start creating precedent that okay, these guys did Uh twenty foot sign. South side of that lot, 80% from 54 to 50 to 56 is area that is not developed yet. Those
developers, when they come in here to start asking for permit application, they are going to base in this sample that we increased the sign here. To ask for another one. And I want to see how we are going to manage that debate in that point. That's all my comments.
First of all, this is not a variance.
I'm sorry if I I say a wrong term.
This is a conditional use, basically, that based upon discretionary Alternatives? And trade offs. Allowing to um increase the height of a s single sign by reducing other signage on the site that is a permitted amount of signage Your ordinance allows this alternative standard. and anyone else coming south And by the way, the reason that you you don't see any science is because the
zone has changed. It's not a commercial zone all the way down.
Right. Okay. Let me just stop. Let me just stop you there. Because you had an opportunity to make your presentation. Um so we don't need you to pontificate further. on something that we've already talked about several times. Um if you wanna respond in terms of a question. Uh then we can respond in terms of a question. Do you have any other questions for this? No, sir. No chairman. Okay, does anybody else have a question? Okay.
I just just one question. As far as the compatibility goes, I think somebody referenced at some point, somebody said that there was taller signs in the area. Can can we show on the map like
I'd like to see that too. Thank you.
Roberto said I think they're further toward the intersection.
Fifty six or fifty four.
Fi fifty four.
Okay. Cause yeah, I'm flying around trying to find them.
Like Burger King has a really tall, but again, that's right. Right by there, I believe.
Right. It's always
Yes.
This is a little bit difficult because they're not Me up on the microphone. You're still not picking me up on the microphone?
Okay, and I'm I'm really sorry. Um and to Roberto's point, those signs did predate the current land development code, which does not allow for um lollipop signs or uh those type of signs. So you do have in that general area, you do have a, as um I believe Chris mentioned, there is a Burger King, uh there is the shopping center to the north. Um there is
a Sonny's BBQ. There's a So in that general area, yes. That's that's where we were. So where you say village market, there's a tall sign there. There's also a tall sign at the at the intersection of Wesley Chapel Boulevard and Bruce B. Downs, of course, again. As Roberto stated, those did predate the sign ordinance as we know it today.
So Denise, if that area redeveloped, would they be able to build those same signs?
They would not be able to build those same signs. They would be able to build up to eleven feet with a fifteen percent allowance for an architectural topper on the top of the side.
So I just want to make one comment because I don't think what the applicant stated is correct. This is not a conditional use. It's also not a variance, it's an alternative standard and It's an alternative standard that has specific criteria. One of those criteria is signs be compatible with other nearby signs and that includes things such as form, proportion, scale, color, materials, surface treatment, overall assigned size. and the size and style of lettering. So Unfortunately compatibility is one of those things
that's kind of in the eye of the b beholder and so I mean, if you all feel like you need to see pictures of these other signs to determine compatibility, you could in theory continue it. Just you have those pictures 'cause they they don't appear to be anywhere in our agenda, but that would be up to the Planning commission, or you can make a decision based on what you have in front of you. That's up to you all. But I just wanted to be clear that statement that this is a conditional use is not accurate. And you can decide whether you approve it based on compatibility with other nearby
signs.
So the so the dollar signs are north of the site.
The taller sites are north of the site, yes. That is accurate, yes. Yes, with the exception of the Luxus that was stated that was approved under under the current sign code. But again, uh David explained that it had to do with visibility because there the exit ramp and that interchange was changing at that time. So there's a visibility issue. It was very low, that sign. the s the the ground to where that sign is located.
Oh down there on this physical property or at that intersection of Eagleston and Bruceby Downs. Are there any other signs at that location other than it looks like there's a median sign? In Eagleston for seven oaks.
There's a monument sign.
It's a monument sign that also I think is divided in four signs. One is uh Lexus, the other one is Toyora, and I covered more business there.
Like Google Earth and see if you can do that
area. And Well Wells Fargo has sign too, but it looks like it's less than ten feet. South side and it's really low key sign. Yep.
I may We'll also have motion.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah,
so let me just ask if there are any other questions. Amy, did you want to see that?
No, I I got it. Okay.
All right. Yep. Okay.
And uh add your motion. And I move a motion to deny it uh what what uh What number is this? S P C This is six.
Can I
say well to be to be clear, if since you're disagreeing with staff's recommendation, I think you need to state the reason. I suspect it's because it's not compatible with nearby. Is that your reason?
It's not compatible and it's not under the uh existing ordinance. that we have implement in the county.
Okay.
So we have a motion or do we have a second?
I mean I I tend to agree with Roberto. I I think we're just setting a a dangerous precedent as we move south of of the commercial components up near the intersection. So I mean I agree and I'll second the motion to deny based on compatibility.
Right. So we have a motion. We have a second. Any further discussion of the motion?
Well, question for Denise. So I mean there are a couple of locations like Wawa up on 54 Chick-fil-A. I mean, are there any alternative standards for for those locations that you're aware of?
I am not aware. I it it would have come through our office, so there have not been alternative standards for those locations.
Fair enough.
I
mean, hospital. that was in question. They've um I don't know where they are in the process, but It's your assumption at this point that they're not asking for any variance?
I have not heard from them as to whether they're going to seek any type of variance or alternative standard. Um, I would imagine we would have heard by this point, but we have not.
signs are the permit for signs is usually issued even after the building, so it's possible that they could still seek one.
Pasco. Well I see this building how having built every day, and I think they are around 70% of the construction done of the building. So they are really close to to finish the last phase of the project.
Okay, so we have a motion and a second any further discussion if if not. Um Uh all in favor? Signify by saying aye. All in favor of denial. I
Clerk, can you check if you can hear me now?
Madam Clerk? Can you hear me now on your Awesome. Thank you.