CPAL-2015 Ridge Road large scale comp plan amendment
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Item P fifty three was published in the Tampa Bay Times on April seventh, twenty twenty one.
Okay.
Here from Ms. Wilh first. No. Staff presentation first.
Mr. Chairman Mariano Members of the Board I am Ed Zodian with Long Range. Uh The matter before you, as you know, is C PAL twenty fifteen. Ridge Road is a large scale comprehensive plan amendment. The proposal
is to amend the future land use map 215 Sheet twenty from Res One, this residential one dwelling unit per gross acre to PD Plan Development. for 10,000 square feet of commercial and 230 apartment units. It's located at the intersection of uh Ridge Road and Tanglewood Drive and there will also be a Text amendment for creating a sub area policy and a map amendment creating a sub-area map. For your edification, there is a companion rezoning to MPUD for this matter.
As you can see, the site is located on Ridge Road at Tanglewood Drive. The functional access for the project will be on Ridge Road. There'll be only emergency access on Tanglewood Drive. The developer will be bringing all the utilities to the site at its own cost. Uh the flu in this area, interestingly enough, is original, so it's been there for about thirty-five years. This board knows that that amendment to uh the comprehensive plan has occurred several times since then.
And the current version of the comprehensive plan, the effective comprehensive plan. includes a designation for uh Urban. Uh service area, excuse me.
Mm mm.
which portends a more dense development. That coupled with the fact that Ridge Road is now connecting to Sun Coast Parkway here in the next ninety days. is gonna change the character of this area radically.
Would you would you mind just 'cause we have a lot of people here who won't understand the term Don't use acronyms because we know what a flu is, but they may not know what the flu.
I'm sorry, the flu is the future land use, which was the original future land use when the COM plan was adopted. Um
We feel that the following policies are consistent with the comprehensive plan. The proposed PD is a planned development, which is a mix mixture of residential and non-residential uses. And that the policy flu for the area plan for the West Market area eight point one point one Sh uh does include that it's an urban service area. and that it promotes infill, redevelopment, compact use and mixed use. As I said, the flu uh the future
land use in this area is original and as you can see from the next slide. The future land use on all the sites s surrounding this is res one. The uh And it's been primarily uh a residential area with some business across the street. You do have the university. Which is about seven hundred feet to the east. Excuse me, the college. I apologize. As well as the airport that's across the street.
The subject property has one single family residence. It's zoned ER. The again the as I said the proposed use is a P D and it will require a f uh on a future An amendment to the future land use. The existing future land use as you can see is res one. The proposed future land use is P D.
Your staff feels that the proposal adheres to the principles of P D, it is located within the urban service area, and it meets the principles of the uh West Market area. Therefore, it does meet the criteria for consistency with the comprehensive plan.
Th since the developer is bringing the utilities to the site, there is going to be no issue with respect to the utility services or capacity. And none of the other internal Departments have expressed a concern.
On April the LPA on April 23rd met and voted three to one to deny the applicant's proposal.
Your staff, however, recommends that the Board of County Commissioners find the amendment consistent with the comprehensive plan and authorize the transmitted to the Department of Economic Opportunity and other reviewing agencies. And I'll be delighted to answer any questions you all may have.
Any questions? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Chairman Mariano. Oh yes. Okay.
Um explain to me the Planning Commission voted to turn it down. And that used to be the case when the Planning Commission made a decision, that became the recommendation of the Board of County Commissioners. Did we change that policy?
No, sir. They didn't even provide an explanation other than The uh they thought it should stay residential. They never provided an explanation for the what was inconsistent with the comprehensive plan. Okay. Um
Commissioner. I think you're in in the past this would have been the DRC. in the the format of the DRC is the county administrator and various other assistant county administrators. That did become the staff recommendation when it went to the DRC. When it began to go to the Planning Commission Plan developments recommendation doesn't change regardless of the Planning Commission, so you actually get two recommendations, one from the Planning Commission on this case, and then one from PND, because they are two separate or entities.
Okay. So let me ask you a question. Looking at the surrounding densities, everything around it says res one. even beside of this res like res three and res nine to the side. If you were to have to classify what this would have been for a development Would it be the res twelve or resolution? twenty four category to make it fit. if it wasn't called a P D.
I think that the P D is the only item that should be considered because of by virtue of its location, realizing that The county has spent about a hundred and forty milyen dollars. to improve Ridge Road from little to where it's gonna connect. Uh Sun Coast. That's a substantial investment. And Res One is probably not the is is not going to be the long term uh
use for the area. All right. Looking at what's around it though compared to the densities, it is a dramatic shift.
Have you looked at the the roadways, Tango Drive going down with the school going down there and the traffic implications that could happen with extra traffic going down 'cause from what I hear read, heard from the residents that I've spoken with and I've had meeting with the residents. As well as the developer. Uh they're worried about how much traffic is going to be because They can't manage the roadway when school's coming in and coming out with what's there now, never mind add two hundred and thirty more apartments there. Again, functional acts. Please don't do that.
Please do not do that.
Again the functional access will be on Ridge Road and emergency access only on Tanglewood. So the The traffic is directed. Internally onto
Ridge Road. And if someone was gonna go down to let's say fifty four and they were gonna travel down to Starkey Park or somewhere down in fifty four or one of those developments, which way do you think they're gonna go? Do you think they're gonna go either way or they're gonna cut go down Tanglewood?
I don't know the answer to that question, sir. I'm sorry.
Please.
One other one other question, as far as the uh utilities, right now you say you you develop is gonna bring in the utilities.
That's right.
When they bring them in, are these people gonna be expected to connect to that?
No.
Okay.
Mr. Chairman Mariano? Mr. Chairman Mariano. If you go back a couple s maybe go back one or two slides. Please. keep going. Right there. Stoop. Go back.
Thank you. At the Planning Commission meeting, um there's a school board representative there. Um because it's here it says no concerns with police fire schools. So my question is, do we know um what statements were made by the representative from the school board at the Planning Commission meeting?
The school board would indicated to me that they were going to reserve their comments until the PUD the M P U D came.
Okay, so there was no comment. How did the how did that person vote at the Planning Commission meeting? The school board representative? I do not recall. Well somebody has it on record, so so when we find that out.
I mean like before we keep moving on, let's find out real quick.
Do we know that? Denise, you know?
I will find it out for you.
Okay. Thank you. Do you know?
I I do have one question.
I know, but I'm gonna let I want it for the record I'm not gonna say which one because I wasn't there. I need it be out.
A rural area, what what constitutes a rural area versus suburban area?
Well in this case the y the services and the infrastructure is being put in place, so this is transcending from the rule to a more Urban area.
Uh I I'm not sure that that's correct, but we'll see here. Okay. answer.
Uh Niktarios Pitos Planning and Development. So the Res Res one future land use that exists there today is a sprawl density. It's one dwelling unit per acre. And this is within the urban service area boundary, which calls for not sprawl density. Which is another uh factor that goes into why this inten this uh development is consistent in terms of the increasing of intensity along Ridge Road that connects major arterials
to the Sun Coast.
Is is is res one considered rule?
Res one is a sprawl suburban density.
It is not rural though.
I didn't think so. Thank you.
Okay.
I think we're gonna hear from the applicant. With the s
Mr. Chairman M with the sewer lines, it was stated they were bringing four miles of sewers, which would cost about one million dollars, but they really they wouldn't even be able to connect to those sewer lines without Pasco County creating a an additional pump or an additional
Structure.
So if I'm understanding the question correctly, the the if they were to develop the sewer infrastructure, they would need a force main to connect to our system. So they're bringing a force main to something miles, as well as having a pump station in order to connect into that system.
Okay. as the way that they're constructing it, they're not even able to connect to the main unless we go ahead and move forward with
If we ever.
No. No, they're mutually exclusive. I mean, as a condition of this development, they would need to connect to central water and sewer, I believe, and in which case it would be incumbent upon the developer to bring the utilities in. The capacity exists, they just need the pipes brought to the site.
Correct.
That property. But I'm talking about Tanglewood. They cannot even connect to it. We would have to go
That would be a completely separate project that we're going to do.
So they cannot.
And that that is not contemplated.
Correct.
Okay.
That completes staff.
Except for we're waiting on that answer. But Barbara, while we're waiting on that you can come do your presentation.
Mm-hmm.
So
if I could, Mr Chair, um the school board representative voted to deny staff's recommendation of approving. So he vo did not vote in favor of the item.
Mr. Nanus, could you push that button so we can get you on the record, please? Thank you.
Absolutely. The school board representative voted to deny staff's recommendation of approval. Okay.
Uh cool.
I'll do my name and address for the record. Barbara Will Hight. 6327 New Port Richey Florida. Grand Boulevard, New Port Richey Florida, 34652. It's been so long since I've been here.
I can answer the question about the school board member at Planning Commission because I was there. School board as a school board, the representative went through a review of the uh project and raised no objection as a school board. Mr. Williams is allowed to vote um on his personal opinions and he voted against it. But the we have the documentation on behalf of the school board that they have no objection to the project.
We've got it. Thank you, Commissioner.
I have my team here with me, Jeremy Couch from Tampa Civil, Steve Henry, Linkston Associates, Steve McConaughey, the developer from Charleston Communities. I also have Doug Sanders from CNS Properties, CNS Companies, who did our airport airspace analysis, and Steve Booth is here representing the longtime property owner of this property, Carolyn Sells.
As staff has told you, this is a twenty acre property on Ridge Road.
Excuse me?
All right. We've set this slide out to show you all the job growth. Your investment in the Angeline project is one of the major uh drivers of my clients' interest in making a $50 million investment in this area. It's quite a few job growth a lot of drop growth in twenty minutes of the site.
Our project, 230 residential class A apartment units, a 10,000 square foot mixed-use commercial office building vertically integrated with loft apartments. Don't think I've ever said that before before you. Staff has asked us to to do that form of development and do Mudderum, and this project is going to do that. We're inclu incorporating a public park with Dog Park and Cazebo. We're proposing to relocate one of your bus stops so it integrates with both the residential, the non-residential,
and the community park. Our traffic distribution is 60% will travel west on Ridge Road, 37% east on Ridge Road, 3% of our project traffic will um be on Tanglewood Drive. I have my
I have my traffic engineer here which on rebuttal will go through the his traffic studies. We have no project ad ad access to Tanglewood.
As you're aware, Ridge Road is an arterial highway.
If there's any more outbursts then we'll clear the room. So don't don't want that. We we're here for a public hearing to let her finish.
Ridge Road is a four-lane Artura highway, similar to fifty-two and fifty-four. Ridge Road is being extended as staff has explained to you $147 million investment between existing Ridge Road that you've done from Little to Moon Lake and then from Moon Lake to the interchange, including the interchange. It's 147 million. Because of that, when we did our traffic study, after this project, your V over C ratio, that's your volume to capacity ratio for a Ridge Road, it will operate
at 0.77. I've never stood here and said that before regarding a project because I usually come here and it's 1.2, 1.3, my clients need variations. So Your road, because of your $147 million investment, is under capacity now and will be under capacity as you extend it to the Suncoast Parkway.
The questions have been answered about the soup water and sewer. So I won't go over that. This obviously you know your infrastructure.
What's unique to this site too is the amount of infrastructure. There is a bus stop right at its front door, s with two major routes being served. You can go all over West Pasco and not have a car and use what you've already invested in. There's there's two routes that do Yeah. The parks and trails are pretty unique as well. You've spent a lot of money in your Ridge Road extension getting a multi-use path. from where it exists now all the way down to the Sun Coast Parkway. So you'd be able to take this Go from
this project out the front door. Go all the way to Suncoast Parkway, use the Sun Coast Parkway. You can also go to the west and go to Warner Boyce Um State Park, which is a 4,000 acre state park.
And you have further plans to even con continue um to have more uh trail infrastructure that this project will be have the benefit of. For schools, 663 feet of the state college, that's 132-acre campus in that area. Currently zoned for Cypress Creek Elementary, Ridge Road Middle, Cypress Elementary, excuse me, Ridge Road Middle, and River Ridge High. This is the capacity analysis that the school board did when they sent a letter of no objection.
The schools are all under capacity.
Your staff has laid out to you some of the land use history, has original zoning, original land use. Quite a bit of work has occurred in the last 35 years. In 2006, you did a major update to your comm plan. You picked where your rural areas were, you picked your rural area protections, and this was not even close to anywhere. Rural. In 2008, you brought ULI in in connection with the Pasco Economic Development Council. And they asked they suggested that you start breaking down your county and
setting a vision for different areas of your county. And you did that. In 2010 you established the different market areas.
You very purposely included this in the West Market area, in the urban concentration area. That does it doesn't happen that way. It happens because that's where you invest in the infrastructure. So there's there's facts that come into play when you do planning and you've been planning for this project for a very long time. In two thousand and the two thousand and ten amendments. Never you never went through and updated your comp plan consistent with those. And so that's why we're here today. If you would have done that, we wouldn't be doing this case by case. You would be amending your comp plan
as in its entirety like you did in 2006, 15 years ago. But this prob this conference and plan amendment absolutely one hundred percent implements your vision and your comp plan policies that you put in place starting in 2006. Res one, as you've heard from your planning director, is SPRA Suburban Density. It's res one is no longer consistent with the comp plan. If I came in and asked you for res one on this property, develop
it as res one, you would deny it. Your staff would recommend denial.
Market area vision, our project to the T is exactly what your vision is for the West Market area. Compact, mixed-use development, infill, redevelopment. You're redeveloping a site from one unit on 20 acres.
That has the densities that you are incentivizing and asking for in your urban service area. The West Market area, choice of living, working, shopping, education, employment, and leisure. Living is Uh gives a variety of housing types. Working, we've got this complex, the VA, we've got the state college, we've got Angeline. Shopping, we're within a mile walking distance to shopping. Education, schools, walking distance to a state college, and leisure. You can bike, you
can go on a bus, you can go to a a state park. all within a reasonable distance, you don't have to get in your car. urban concentration area, specific policies, financial incentives, review priority, you do that because you get your best bang for your buck by making sure that you put density where your investment's already made. This is your rural area area map. As you can see this area is nowhere near that. In fact Your staff did a presentation
to the PEDC and I sit on the board of the P D C about Ridge Road extension. And one of the facts that I thought was interesting in their presentation Was that 178 residents live within the two mile area in this area? 178,000 within two miles. This is not rural.
In 2013, you took your COM plan even further after ULI and after the market areas, you took another step and you hired somebody to do an actual redevelopment and infill plan. That was done with lots of public participation. and you adopted that plan in 2013. We are in the central district, this property is, absolutely fits within. And when I show you my my concept plan, the site plan, we'll go over that. We're providing parks, open spaces, connected street networks, and a mixed-use
infill project. Other thing that's really interesting about this project, because it's infill and because all the infrastructure's there. These mobility fees can go to other project impacts. It's three point two million in impact and building fees. taxes. Right now the property s pays eight thousand a year in taxes. It'll be eight hundred thousand a year after this project. 800,000 a year in an area where you have all your infrastructure goes right to your general fund. The
school board alone will will have three hundred thousand. The average surrounding lots are are paying, contributing to the county in two 2,500 per unit. This project will be thr 3,200 per unit. One of the things that my client has pointed out that a project like his becomes an income consolidator. as new people come and want to be in his fifty tho fifty million dollar project. And we're going to do it. The incomes that will come to live in here aggregate thirteen
point eight million dollars, which will then go into your area, into your restaurants, into your shops, into your small businesses. And that's what brings up an area. That's why you do redevelopment. Because it's by that kind of money coming into an area, by my client's investment, that we all reap the benefits from that in our small businesses and reap the benefits. The comp plan talks about compatibility. We've been very sensitive in our site design regarding compatibility, very thoughtful out,
thoughtful. We've worked on this a whole bunch. This is version 11. Some of the things that we did was sensitive design to Put our ponds where our adjacencies are This is our mixed use building. ri restaurants on the bottom, loft departments on the top, it has a arcade here. a covered space, candilevers here, so you'll have open space here so people can come sit outside, have coffee. and work on their laptops or they can go into the community park and also be able to
work on their laptops if they're going to school or they just want to break from working from home. or or the like. This is a uh clustered. We've clustered in the middle of the site. purposely done it that way. The comp plan provides regarding buffering. We have special attention to buffering here and here. There's four residents on this side. We're going to I'll show you the buffering that we're proposing here in addition to our ponds. This is over 300 feet from the nearest residence on this side, which is about a football field. Same thing over here.
This is the what we're proposing for our landscape buffer on the west side. It's Arbor Verde, Florida Green Giant. It's different from what your code requires. It well exceeds the code and we'll provide a nice buffer there. These are a little hard to see, but what the point of this is to show you. This is Tanglewood, this is Ridge Road, and this shows you on this property line here, there's a lot of existing vegetation both on The adjacent property owner as
well as this property, and we are going to maintain that existing vegetation buffer and supplement it in that area.
I do have my I want to just briefly talk about this airspace analysis. I do have a presentation which we'll do in rebuttal um so we can answer the questions of the residents and that's why I do it that way, but just a brief overview. We did do an aerospace analysis, aerospace analysis after planning commission commission. Unfortunately, because my mic was turned off, I wasn't able to respond regarding any of the airport issues. I'm so glad I can be here in person because it's been tough, you know, with a year of being turned off when you really have information that would
be helpful and guide and good guide good decisions. This is the FAA determination. There's there's three there's a couple of things you look at and which is vertical obstructions. The FAA has determined that this will this project will not be a vertical obstruction. It will not have any hazard, a vertical hazard to that airport. It was questioned whether this when FAA did this they knew about the airport. So I hired an expert and said, would you do an actual study
on this location, this project, and that airport? Which he did.
This depicts The different areas of protection. That when you look at an airport, you look at vertical hazards. You look at runway protection zones. These here are the one-way protection zones. Our project is over here.
There's another thing called land use compatibility, which you learned about and heard about. With regard to the l the other airport project. Land use compatibility applies to public airports, but I had my expert look at well what would be the land use compatibility zone if this was a public use airport. And that's this yellow line. This project falls outside of that. So the statutes talk about a few things. We talk about Airport hazards, they talk about runway protection areas, and they talk
about land use compatibility. We fall outside of all of those. We are we this project is not does not violate any of those statutes if you even had land use compatibility, which you don't.
Drainage, the what I'll point out here is this last sentence here. The project will provide a net improvement to drainage within the local sub-div the sub basin. Our project engineer is here and can respond to any public comment regarding that. And my last slide I want to share with you is something I found really interesting, which is You don't invest in a fifty million prod dollar project without having rental criteria. Our residents will be income qualified, sixty to sixty-five thousand dollars per year to rent a unit within this project. The medium
median household income in the Tanglewood area is fifty-nine thousand. So these will be this neighbors to neighbors. They're not those people and Tango was not those people either. We're all people.
The other thing is that all these projects have criminal background checks. You know, when somebody rents to you next door, your the property next door to you a lot of people don't do criminal background checks but but they do in these projects. Um And with that, my time is up. I thank you for that. And uh we'll be ready to respond uh to your public uh inquiries. Thank you.
All right, thank you.
I just think somebody maybe is not going to sign up. He's not even signed up yet. So
Well,
he's I know he is.
So do you want to hear it first? Okay. All right. This is the public hearing and um First up to speak would be Regular four.
Mr. Laporte. Yes, he's
going to speak at PK.
You're up. You're up.
Oh Mr. Chairman, I didn't sign up deliberately so I had to be the last one today. Mr. Harrison signed up first as counsel for Tangles.
Okay. Okay. We can take it. Thank you, Mr. Laporte. Then the first person signed up to speak is Richard Harrison.
Hmm.
Richard Harrison, 400 North Ashley Drive, Tampa, Florida, 33602. I'm an attorney in Tampa, been practicing for 35 years. I'm board certified in city, county, and local government law. Uh and I also happen to be the chairman of the Hillsborough County Land Use Appeals Board. I'm going to talk primarily about compatibility because I think we all realize that that's the issue of the day. And Commissioner Mariano, I'm gonna answer the question in a minute that you asked that nobody seems to wanna answer for
you, so hang on. Um first though there is a process issue that I want to alert you to. I'm gonna try to make the Elmo work here. If we can do that, bear with us.
All right. This is their survey. The project site is made up of two parcels. The large parcel is 20.35 acres, and then the additional second parcel is this lot 16, which is actually part of Tanglewood. About 1.2 acres total project site. Twenty one point five three acres. This is their survey. The developer here seems oddly confused about what's actually in their own project. In
the application, the original application filed October second of twenty twenty. They identified only the large tract, 20.35 acres, made no mention of the additional parcel. And these are two separate parcels, separate legal descriptions, separate parcel numbers. They amended in January of twenty one. and still only identified the large parcel, said nothing about the additional parcel. Finally last month they amended again
and finally put into the application the second parcel number, which is a completely separate parcel of land, Uh although they never updated the compiled anchorage. That alone is odd, but here's the process issue. The legal notice. that was published in the Tampa Bay Times on April seventh is wrong. The legal notice. only describes and shows in the map the large twenty point three five acre parcel.
It's gonna be hard to see on the Elmo, but we can uh offer copies to receive and file. What you can see if you get a close up of this Is that Here's the map.
of the project site and it excludes the additional one point two acre parcel. So
Mr. Harrison, just for the record, so you know when you go off mic we can't hear you. So if you want to it's just the end of it that you can turn it towards you wherever you go.
Thank you. Um so there's a there's an issue with the legal notice. The legal notice is defective, it mi re misrepresents affirmatively what is covered in this project. Because it tells people that it's only the twenty point three five acres. And specifically indicates that the additional 1.2 is not a part of the project. I don't know how you get that wrong as a developer. Uh but that's important and that's those are the facts and that's all out of the case record on this. Um now let's talk about compatibility
because that's really the issue. Nobody is here suggesting that some increased density is not appropriate for this large tract. That's not the question of the day. The question of the day is whether the proposed project is appropriate for this tract.
And I'm gonna learn which way to put these.
Yeah.
Probably right around the time I run out of time. Yeah.
There we go.
All right, so we can change the project is located In the upper right hand corner, and this shows you that Tanglewood literally surrounds this project site on three sides. You got Ridge Road to the north. Everything else around this twenty-one point three five acres is Tanglewood. Here is A little closer look showing the project site with tanglewood all around it. And just one last item. Tanglewood Road, which the developer wants to convince
you nobody is going to use when they move into these 230 units. is the only access to Cypress Elementary. You're going to have other property owners in the neighborhood talk about those issues here shortly. Um But compatibility.
Your comp plan lays out some guidelines to steer you in this decision. Policy FLU 1.10.1 talks about compatibility review and says your review shall include evaluation of existing, proposed, and anticipated transitions between land uses. So we're going to talk about transition here.
Policy FLU 1.4.3 is called transitional land uses. and it says that you shall evaluate comp Plan amendments to ensure That transitional land uses are provided. between varying densities of residential land use designations.
As we know, the current land use designation is Res1.
I don't know how to make that any larger. Can we zoom in on that?
Yeah, please go.
While you're zooming I'll keep talking.
But this is again out of your comp plan. Here are your designated land use categories. Someone earlier. May have been staff said that Res One is not a rural land use classification. You can plainly see. That it is right there. under rural land use classifications. But Commissioner Mariano, to answer your question. What would the density of this project be if somebody told you what the density was? Uh the short answer is We're
blowing by res three. We're blowing by Res six, we're blowing by Res nine, blowin' by Res twelve, And the answer to your question is based on
Developer zone.
calculation which again is very hard to read, but what can we ask we'll ask you to receive and file copies. According to their calculation, two hundred thirty apartments on sixteen point something developable acres when you s accept out the wetlands. is almost just under 14 units per acre, 13.99. So that's the answer that nobody wants to give you, Commissioner. Uh so they are into res twenty-four. Show. Where
is the transitional use? between all of that res one Surrounding this twenty-one point three five acres. and this project, which is the equivalent of Res twenty four. There is no transitional use there. And no matter what they tell you about what the future holds, you've got to consider the current circumstances as well. This project is incompatible. Your own planning
commission told you that. Two of the three who voted against it explicitly said it's not compatible. And it's not. It's not compatible with anything around it. It will create an island of high density Res twenty four equivalent Project. in a sea of residential one. It's not compatible and you will have other folks who add to that. point as well. Thank you very much.
Yes sir. Put your documents, sir. Sir. Sure. Which documents do you want received and filed? Because you m you said you wanted them received and filed, but then you've never gotten a motion from this board.
All right. What we have, and I'm not gonna give you your own comp plan.
The newspaper notice is already in the record. that that you showed. Right. So I I assume it was the survey and that last document that that you showed.
The survey which we have copies of and the last document has no title on it, so let's just call it a Site plan with density calculation. It has no name on it. Second.
Are we allowed to ask him questions or should we not? Okay. Can you go to Google or
He's gonna call the motion. He's gonna call the motion.
Oh I'm sorry. got a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye.
Aye. Aye.
Mr. Harrison, if you could just give them to the
Can
you put up the Pasco County property appraiser site? I think that's maybe that the it's the easiest one to go to.
And Mr. Chairman, what is the square acreage, the total acreage?
So what now?
The total acreage.
The acreage that is on the newspaper ad is twenty point three five.
Thank you.
Oh, new picture. Switch it off.
You go to record search and then the maps. That's how I do it.
Mr. Chairman Mariano pulled up, just a question for Mr. Steinsnyder in reference to the gentleman's um comments on the notice of County
Attorney's opinion.
Right there it says view map.
So so all that you can change in the ordinance is what that ha what That which has been advertised. So if they if the twenty point three five acres
Is not the entire project, there's gonna be a hi hiatus that's gonna remain res res one. Okay. So that corner
Um
and I'm sorry, what's your name again, sir?
Yes, sir.
What's your name? Richard Harrison. Mr. Harrison. Okay. So Mr. Harrison mentioned was that parcel sixteen? Yes.
Parcel 16 is was omitted from the published notice.
Yeah. though. Is it that pink?
Well here it is, right there. It's this one, right there. Okay. Okay.
Okay, can you go to this piece of property? You can do that by typing the address in, which I have no idea what it is. I can get it for you, I guess. Nine six four zero Ridge Road. But just but don't zoom in too tight on it.
Sorry, I didn't mean
for it
to take this long. I don't think you um put the the period beside behind road and if you want to spell out road.
Nine six four oh nine.
Yeah, you can check it out.
Why's that taking so long? There it is.
Okay. Can you zoom out just a little bit?
What is the title? Mm-hmm.
To the left of that property where it says Boyce Court, what How many ho homes per acre are there?
I'm sorry, Commissioner.
Those are not one acre homes. Those are smaller than one acre.
Well you can look at it. And you can see that.
And zoom out a little bit more. I see really dense over here at Bucks Run Kirkland, Lumscom, Airway, Piper. So I think there's all kinds of density in the area. Just commenting. Thank you.
Uh Mr. Chairman Mariano.
Mr.
Moore.
For the County Attorney again. So I'm looking at the notice. I'm looking at
The site plan, I'm looking at the survey boundaries. I guess this would be a question to you for staff and possibly the applicant as well. Instead of sitting here for four hours waste everybody's time.
Can this move forward today?
Was it
noticed properly?
looking and that goes right through the retention areas. That's probably I would assume required under the development agreement to move forward with. And I'm sure the repro approvals were based on this area I'm looking at right now, which is probably a required retention area. So I I guess that would be a question for Mr. Steinstein or staff and then let the applicant respond.
Let her step up. Yeah sir. You can stay up there too. So I don't know if you three weeks.
Or do you need to re notice this? Well I think Mr Steinstein needs to jump in
Well it's not a good thing. So the question becomes is if they need PD on this piece of property and it is not included in the legal description. then it's a problem. If staff has rendered an opinion that they can put a pond in res one Then it's not a problem. But without Matching everything up. I mean, I think that's a good thing In theory, all the property that is part of this development project should be in the same
future land use classification.
So Barbara Willheight for the applicant, as you've stated, that property is not to be pro um developed residentially. It will have a pond on it. I have lots and lots and lots and lots of projects that have um ponds if they have more than one land use designation on it, as long as we're not developing it residentially. Um with more than one unit per acre. There will be no units per acre on that property. It's fine for it to be res one and for the remainder of the property to be PD.
So Terry, what's the right-of-way?
Terry Pitos again. Uh just for clarification, the question is can ponds of certain developments be in a future land use of an of a neighbor. Can ponds of a certain developments be in a neighboring future land use? Is that the question?
Well the qu qu like my question is when you reviewed the project I would assume you were taking this into consideration. Correct. Of where the stormwater ponds would need to be. So this has included what we're looking at, what's being presented to us.
Generally yes, but at the future land use level, we're not really into the site planning. So site planning really determines where ponds can go. However, I can say that there are n a number of projects throughout the county that have placed their ponds. In On their property that is in a neighboring future land use in another one. So there for example, there are lots of comm properties. uh that or lots of com projects I should say that have portions of their property in a residential flu and their pond is located in that residential
flu.
So the okay so the continu continue my questioning would would be, are we going to have to come back and do this all over again for parcel or lot sixteen? 'Cause if they're gonna wanna use this, we're gonna have to go through the same exact process once again moving forward. Are we not?
I think it's the planning director's opinion that they can put a pond in in res one and not Not have it included. Not have it included. Mm.
Okay, well. Mr. Chairman Mariano?
Sorry. So please All right. So so Terry, talking about the transition with our comprehensive plan. Um surrounding it. Surrounding it is all res one. Right. Beside it you've got res three and res nine further out. When you go further down you get to college, then you get to Kenmore, Kirkland. You're gonna get closer to Sun Coast Parkway. Would that be the place to put more densities down toward That way or even back toward the other way where a little road is? As opposed to right in the middle of A
rural area.
Well, I it's it's actually not a rural area and I know what the the chart was shown and if you'll give me a second I can grab my computer screen and put it on the Elmo and I'll kind of show you the distinction of what's happening.
So the so the chart he showed where Res one is not considered rural at any time. Yeah.
Jerry. The chart that he showed, it showed r res one in rural
and
also suburban.
Right. So the that chart was showing rural in the rural uh portion of the table and then uh uh and also it was showing it in a separate portion that wasn't rural. I forget the exact titling. But what what's basically happening is The Res One is listed under the RU Rural Class classification because it also exists in rural areas, and when that is the case, Res One is able to respond to the rural area. Um but when it's in the urban service area, it is not in a rural area, and therefore the RESON would not respond to the rural. It
would respond to the urban service aspect of it. And so it's sprawl density. And so what I've got on my screen here, sorry I've got to stay in the mic here. Um let me see if I can organize this.
Sorry, it's a little low tech, using high tech for the right-of-way. There you go. Okay, so let's use this. So this this what what I'm showing here on the screen Is in the A6 appendix of the future land use of the comprehensive plan. So this is actually defining res what res one is. And those are all the criteria that that are in res one. Now if you scroll through and I'll I'll scroll back.
Into this chart here, what you'll see is
Does it work with the almo? No? Okay. Well maybe I use my mouse. Yeah, so
What you see here is two classifications, Res1, CS Rural Area, and CS Other. And so if you continue to scroll, the rural area is defined as rural North Pasco Rural Area and Other is all lands outside of the Northeast Pasco rural area. So when you have that's a bit loud. When you have uh the res one in the rural area, then it's going to respond to the rule. When you don't have the res one in the rural area, then it's going to respond to that
context. Reswan again is a sprawl density. It's one dwelling unit per acre, so you're dealing with large lots, which is why which is how it can coexist in in the rural areas. And it it is considered sprawl because that's how sprawl is introduced into rural areas. No, I'm talking about
sprawl for thirty years.
Okay. And around every everything around this one parcel is all rural?
Res one. So when you put compatibility next to item to item, if you're gonna put res one, wouldn't it be good to like put a res three next to it? Or you maybe has res nine would be res six maybe, res nine? But to go to res twenty four the way this breaks down? Isn't that going a little bit intense for what's right there? Shouldn't it be a a softer transition?
Well the the transitions are dependent on not necessarily buffering a land use with other land uses. transitions can also take place using uh at characteristics of the site plan. So I think um Miss Wilhite illustrated ponding ponds Landscaping and other uh taking advantage of other geographic features uh in the site plan to help buffer the one area from another. So it's not always the case that you have to insert a
transitional land use to go from res one to res Six, nine, whatever, to get to the the densities that you're looking for. In addition to that, I would say that the density isn't ought not to be considered in this particular context. from going from east to west in terms of things or west to east I should say in terms of higher density development closer to the coast, closer to US nineteen and emanating out from those uh develop from that
area. moving eastward. Rather in this context you would locate look at intensity and density in proximity to the to Ridge Road itself. Because that is a main co mainland corridor now. Uh that is alternative to State Road fifty two further north and even State Road fifty four further south.
So in an urban service area, would you pretty much say that you're gonna put sidewalks in place? You're gonna have Traffic homing devices where needed.
Typically in the urban service area you would find the right-of-way.
In a typical urban service area. So this area built rural as it has been for thirty some odd years, has got a roadway connected to this commercial in 230 units coming along a single line road that's very narrow without a sidewalk with a school that blocks up traffic. And you don't think it's an issue with the right-of-way? Maybe keep it a little bit more rural?
In terms of the access to the school you mean?
I'm talking about the the traffic impact that's gonna happen on Tangowood Drive coming down to the school. You get all those people that get back up all the way through. Because you get a It's just chop d the roads are not designed. You've got swales going up and down, so there's gonna be different places gonna be underwater, whatever. So even if you put a sidewalk, how good would it work? But you're gonna have people that have to access there, drive to school, and now you're gonna add two hundred and thirty more homes that are gonna add more traffic to the school, if nothing else. Right. Well,
that there will be people there that will access and use the school is There's a potential for that, yes.
No potential
certainty. Just certainty, it's on the chart. That well that what has been discussed in other developments and other projects is that typically a multifamily project does not generate the number of students a great deal or a great number of students that would attend the schools. Uh so I don't I don't have the exact uh statistics for how much they're anticipating this particular project would generate to go to that elementary school, but it's not the same as a single family development.
Well, it would be confusing to me how you would say that you don't think it has as much impact when you if you had a another Res One development coming in or even Res III coming in. the impact would happen on the school I would guarantee would probably be a lot less than what the impact of this would be. Again, traveling on
that road? Not necessarily. Uh I would have to go back and look at some of the school district's findings on other projects. Because in a res three density you can have Uh Well, I'm not gonna speculate, but you can have a lot of single family homes, a couple hundred single family homes that might generate.
We're talking about this acreage though. I'm talking about this acreage that's right here compared to doing a Res One project or a Res III project compared to this what's a really Res twenty-four project as far as density goes. Well uh the impact's gotta be bigger. Okay.
Well it not necessarily
well Commissioner
Weight It could, but not
We know this many times we get a lot of people to speak today. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for your comment, sir.
You know, being on the school board uh previously there is a there is a calculation that the school district does. So I'm sure that we can get that number of what an apartment Generates versus a home. And Yeah. Okay. Some some staff person here can get that number from the school district.
Mm-hmm. It's a public hearing. We go on to the next speaker.
I I'm sorry, I'm still stuck on this notice and and I'll tell you why. I'm not a surveyor. I don't have a surveying instrument in front of me to see, you know, where these lines are really drawn on these parcels. Um I mean staff you should've caught this too, though I'll be honest with you, before this came in front of us today. Um so I'm not putting it all on the applicant by any means. But um I don't know. Think we're walking on shaky ground right now.
Mr. Chairman Mariano. A as I said in my initial comments, I the the the applicant has come up and said Their project is Might assumption of what Ms. Wilhide said was They're fine. They're fine with they have reviewed it against their project and they're Retention pond is all that's gonna be in that area and we've permitted things like that in the past. So
they're willing to go forward. I mean if you wanna get the applicant to say that, but at this point Unless until we compare the MPUD to the area that is in P D and were to find an issue with it, I think you go forward with your hearing and fix it later if we've got a problem.
And I understand it. So a follow-up question then I guess what anything we consider today. m you know, further when it comes to a motion, we're going to need to pull that portion out because that wouldn't be part of that.
You're at transmittal, so You can I mean I was trying to stay above board here. So i if the if the anchorage in the survey is what was advertised the acreage and survey is what's going to be attached to the ordinance unless unless it's re-advertised. Okay. All
right. Madam Clerk.
Okay. So um we're gonna go through the list of those that signed up and since there is a number signed up I'm gonna call three at a time and if you are able to line up um behind the other. So I'll do
Christina Farah. And Vicky Steve or could be Stein, sorry, Vicky Stein. If you could just line up and um Mr. Farah you would have be able to go first.
Thank you and then state your name and address for the record and you may begin.
Yeah hi, my name is Sonny Farrow, I'm at [address removed].
I live in Tanglewood East and the proposed rezoning of this development is of alarming concern to myself and all the residents of Tanglewood East, along with the surrounding communities. Yes, all hundred all 284 homeowners, 100% of us are opposed to this project. We're your constituents. You represent us. We Do not see any advantage for this project going in for the hardships that this is actually going to cause upon us. And I'll and I'll refer
on that. This proposed development will double the size of our community overnight, disrupting our entire community. This project does not belong or fit in our rural residential landscape. Ridge Road from Little Road to Moon Lake Road currently conforms to this rural residential landscape. Even the newer developments on Ridge Road went to great lengths to blend into the landscape, Pyle Corporation, which is on there. The Hernando Pasco State College. blends
in. They are set back. You cannot really see their facilities from Ridge Road. They w they did a great job with that. H I don't know how you hide a four story apartment building. That ain't gonna happen. And these trees that she showed, they're gonna be a buffer. What are those thirty year old trees? You gotta wait that long for them to grow that big. I'm sorry. people on the third and fourth floor, those apartments are gonna be able to look right into Tanglewood East. people were gonna lose their privacy in their backyards. That's just a fact. It's just a just a matter
of the difference between a single level home and a four story home, which is why you have buffer zones. Anyway, the uh The the official traffic study that they talked about was never really done. It was an estimate and it was done during a COVID year when the college was out, no one was going there, the schools were closed, people were working from home. I don't know where they got these numbers from, but it certainly wasn't from the traffic that was actually on the road at the time that they did the study. It's a completely different environment. So
I guess I can't.
Sorry, okay. Feel like I'm on the gong show. Anyway, uh
We got a hook that comes out.
Yeah, okay. Anyway, uh and to say that Tangowood Drive would not receive a lot of this traffic is totally untrue. Because that's an easy access to cut through to go out to the cubeless, out to Starkey, going out to um 54. Or people trying to get onto Ridge Road, they're not going to go onto Ridge Road off of Tanglewood to make it left because there's not enough room to do it. They're going to go right and they're going to go to Sycamore Drive, which is what I live on the corner of, and go back out onto Ridge Road that way. I pay
for that road. That is not a county-maintained road. Mm. uh and we get the pavement assessor on those roads. That traffic's gonna cut through Tanglewood. along Tanglewood Drive and Sycamore and then take Tanglewood go all the way back out to to the cubulis. So that's coming right all that traffic comes right through our subdivision. There there is no way around that. Pi you know, that's n natural human progression to do that. Now, as far as the impact on us in here, it's
That's
it. Okay.
Thank you for your comments. Thank you. Yes, sir.
Good afternoon everyone. Good afternoon. My name is Christina Farah. Married that guy. Kidding. Anyway.
And your address, ma'am, and your address too. And if you want, you can just bend that down. The end of it. There you go.
[address removed]. The next problem. Cypress Elementary School with two, three, and four bedroom apartments. There are going to be kids walking and riding their bikes to school on Tanglewood Drive. It's tenths of a mile to the bus entrance to the school on Tanglewood Drive from the apartments. That is a dark, narrow, winding, two-lane road with no sidewalks or bike paths.
There are always deer and other animals killed by cars on Tanglewood Drive throughout the evening. How long before it becomes children hit by cars, especially during the time of the school year when it's still dark.
This project is located on the very edge of the West Market District. Why here? Why now? In the middle of rural subdivisions, with all the open areas along SR-52, SR-54, Ridge Road, east of Moon Lake Road. That would make more sense environmentally, no disruption of existing neighborhoods and financially beneficial for the county. By spending our resources in high density subdivisions under development, the county gets a high, a much higher return on its investment versus low density
rural subdivisions. Even kids know that. That's why we don't get kids trick-or-treating in our area. They go to high density neighborhoods, more candy, less time and energy. Where the county got it right. SR 54 was left it was laid out excuse me and developed correctly. Hats off to whoever did that subdivision. Single family homes in the back, green buffer zones, roads, then two-story condos and townhouses, another greenbelt, then the multi-story apartment
buildings, greenbelt, then commercial businesses on SR-54. There's plenty of land to continue this without disrupting existing communities in time from 10 to 20 years from now. Then backfill. This project only has one winner, the developer. Tanglewood East and surrounding subdivisions are disrupted. The county loses revenue by spending its resources on a low-density rural area at a much rate of return on its investment than it is invested in high density. Just doesn't fit the area of decision,
it affects our quality of life. Please keep that in mind when you vote on today, June 22nd. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. And as Ms. Stein walks up to the microphone, I'm gonna call the next three. And if you're able to, please line up behind her. Um let's see, Shannon Whitmer. Joni Roberts, Addie Sell. Ms. Stein, you
may proceed with your name and address. My name is Vicky Stein. I live at [address removed]. Uh the Planning Committee met on april twenty second, two thousand twenty one. In attendance were Charles Gray, Jamie Girardi, Christopher Poole, Peter Hensel and Chris Williams. At the meeting, this vote was three to one to delay this project and deny it. One of the planners, uh Peter Henzel
voted no due to the airport safety issues. Two of the planners, Christopher Poole and Charles Gray, also voted no to this project due to the incompatibility with the comprehensive plan.
Hmm. Yeah, I just wanted to mention
that Chuck Ray abstained on this one.
Yeah. Um I was just about to say Charles Gray uh recused himself due to the conflict of interest and lack of impartiality, even with one of the planning board members who was intimately connected to the project, the planning. Uh, board still voted no. The primary reason for this is that the plan is just a poor idea for this area. The project is in no way, shape or form.
It should never have been made. two day to the voting process. Wait. It did, in fact. They voted against it. There shouldn't even be a vote today, because this is ridiculous. I don't know why we're here today, because this was already voted down.
Well but m Madam Chair. Madam Chair.
Yes.
Thanks. That's me. Yeah. I think you're next. You have the you have the the gavel now. And just I just wanna c in case this comes up again, I just wanna make sure Mr. Steinsteiner can step in if you like. Um Once they go through essentially the DRC Well the Planning Commission now, sorry. that's the first step. Then it has to come in front of the Board of County Commissioners. It doesn't matter if they deny it
by statute by law still has to come in front of us. So I just want to make sure you understood that.
On on these on these on this type of project. On these type of project the Planning Commission is only a recommendary body. So it has the the action has to be taken by the Board of County Com
All right,
name
and record, please.
Name and
address for the
record. Good afternoon. Shannon Whitwer, [address removed]. Okay, I'd like to start off by saying we've heard more information today than we've been able to receive from the county. So in saying that, we know nothing about the four miles of sewer line, according to what we've r uh received. Under capacity analysis per EdZocian sorry, Edzodean Currently, there are no sewer lines running near or around that area. Having written Ed Zodian regarding the current state of
Pasco County sewer systems, his response reinforces our understanding that the developer for CPAL 2015 acknowledges the absence of capacity and infrastructure as sewer system as the sewer system exists today. His response mirrors the developer's position, and that their solution to currently nonexistent capacity and infrastructure in the sewer system is the hope and wish that Pasco County will solve this problem at some unknown point in
the future, but before the completion of the permitting process. Therefore, it is our conclusion that this project is based on a wish that Casco County Utilities will solve the capacitance and infrastructure issues in time, not to mention the CPAL 2015 location is an island surrounded by an absence of county sewer lines. The nearest sewer line to this project is one point seven miles away. Not including the 600 lineal feet the developer
has agreed to install from the proposed project outward. Nowhere in CPAL 2015 is this massive oversight ever addressed. Is there enough money in the enterprise fund to address this horrific oversight? And what other projects and zones will money have to be diverted from to make up for this shala colossal shortfall? Logic would dictate that this money would be taken from the enterprise fund or some other zone for some other project and is actually hidden in this project. And again, we asked at
Zodean and were emailed back that there is no planned solution. And regardless of what has been stated, nowhere in anything that the developer has given us as far as paperwork does it state that the developer will pay for utilities. If someone were not so well connected had bought had brought this project to you, it would be shot down immediately, and rightfully so, due to the fact that not all of the I's are dotted or T's crossed. This project is completely incompatible
with zoning. along with the fact that this project has hidden costs associated with it, as well as the grocery list of issues brought up in this meeting that show that this project should never be built. Thank you for your time.
Good afternoon. My name is Joni Roberts. I live at [address removed].
Regarding the traffic study performed by LINKS and Associates Incorporated on or about February 2021, the study is a best guess study. No traffic counts were done in this study. The study does not make a promise to make a study for actual vehicle counts within two years. But unfortunately, this is currently based on guess. better known as guesstimate. In essence, this best guess traffic study is not based on factual numbers. We won't be quoting it, but neither should anyone
else. With that said, we who drive on these roads daily recognize that adding potentially five hundred additional cars would turn our roads practically unsafe and unusable. That is why you are hearing repeatedly about traffic. Yes, we heard your commands not to mention traffic issues anymore, but we know not mentioning these potential potential issues will not change what would become our future problem. Additionally, our concerns are that we will be assessed for road repairs,
as wear and tear from additional traffic brings the need to resurface the roads sooner. And as an additional note, Tanglewood Drive is currently completely unsafe for bike or foot traffic. Another of the many negative aspects of this proposed project are to the local animals. We regularly see alligators, bobcats, and coyotes, and many deer and gopher turtles, to name some of the larger animals. We enjoy the rural and nature quality these animals bring to our lives and our neighborhoods.
And again, I know this isn't a popular position with some commissioners, but we, many of the people these neighborhoods, really did buy these properties with a certain quality of life in mind. These animals, the trees and the wilderness areas, the rural aspect of this neighborhood was what we were all looking for when we purchased our properties. That's why we're fighting so hard to stop anything that takes that away from us. The simple truth is progress isn't always good. We also realize that an
environmental impact study has not been done. Thank you. Thank you for your comments.
Thank you. And as Miss Cell uh comes to the podium, I'm gonna call the next three names and if you are able to please step um up in single file behind her. Dan Rasmussen. Eva Sisak. Or Eva Sisak? And then Delyn, and I think the last name is Gadston.
Thank you.
Mm-hmm.
Good afternoon. My name is Adrian Sell. I live at [address removed] in Tanglewood East. Nine eleven records show that between 66, 2020 and 423, 2021, that's ten months. There was a total of fourteen accidents on Tanglewood Drive, eight of which had injuries and one was a hit and run. As it stands, that information averages out to 1.4 accidents a month. Not only is Tanglewood
Drive a narrow two-lane winding road, it's also a thoroughfare. Our main road that runs through Tanglewood East is used by citizens within a two to five mile radius as a shortcut to get to Veterans Parkway or Starkey Boulevard. Adding so many additional drivers to this road is a demonstrate of safety to the residents of Tanglewood East. 230 apartments would mean an approximate potential influx of over 500 extra vehicles daily using Tanglewood
Drive. The more traffic on our time saving road, because that's what it is. is greatly going to increase road hazards. Based on what we have researched, if 1.4 accidents a month is the norm, it is more than obvious that the additional cars a day could spell disaster for the locals. We have concerns about the school. Cypress Elementary has a freeze on it. They are accepting no new students. Why is this of no
concern to the developer? Plus, there's absolutely no safe pedestrian path between the project and the school, regardless. Regarding concerns for emergency management, there are two times a school day when Tanglewood Drive and Sweet Bay Court are locked up due to traffic from that very school. And it's been stated to have no concern. Access during these two times a day is extremely limited also to first responders. Regarding
crime, it is a nationwide fact that the denser the population in an area, the more crime is prevalent. Changing our low density area to a high density area would most certainly increase the possibility of crime. Again, this is a nationwide trend. Thank you.
Good afternoon, members of the commission. My name is Dan Rasmussen. I reside at [address removed] in Tanglewood East. I've owned this property since nineteen seventy four when I built my house out there. in that area on purpose. Um I'm an attorney. I'm a former judge of Pasco County. For 20 years, it was my privilege to serve, as you do, the people of this county.
Per the twenty twenty five comprehensive plan Pasco County, Florida, on page two A five, and I quote A decision must take into consideration Pasco County's comprehensive plan and be consistent with its goals, objectives, and policies. More specifically the location of residential slash development Lots shall be arranged, In a
Context sensitive matter. such that they preserve the integrity of the rural community. and protect and preserve. the rural appearance of land when viewed from public roads and from abutting properties.
These criteria alone should Reject this project. Some consideration. Now we're sure that you have heard Well it's the property value. often enough in many of these types of cases. It comes up. because constituents do not want high density use. in residential areas. A two hundred and thirty apartment complex. at
the entrance of our neighborhood Which completely surrounds it. Uh would
Detriment. would be a detriment to what Tangawood East has been for the past more than forty years. It was designed around one plus acre lots. And it is intended And it brought our people together. with the commonality of what it is that makes Tanglewood East special to us. It is, of course, its rural characteristics. I enjoy watching the deer come through my property from my breakfast
table in the morning. I know most of these folks do. Two. We enjoy our Residents are common. quality of life. We don't want to see it changed. We ask you. to vote for your constituents. Thank you. Thank you.
Good afternoon. My name is Eva Spizak. I live at [address removed], Tango Tangowood East resident.
Pasco County Development Standards, Chapter 900, Section 901.6 states amenities such as sidewalks, streetlights, shoulders on the road, drainage, roadside, clear zone, etc., should already be in place before breaking ground for large-scale development such as this. Again, another Pasco County standard shows that this project is not ready, has not been well laid out or planned and has many holes, issues that have not been addressed
fully or properly with all the big problems solved. The information put forth by a developer is full of holes and inaccuracies. For example, The plans they submitted to Swift Mud uses a wall on the west side of the property. that would be used for a sound barrier. That wall begins at a very low height and gets higher as it goes towards the south end of the property. At the beginning of the property the wall would prevent no sound from travelling into the next neighborhood. This sound barrier wall is only three feet high. on
the other side, and runs at this height for twenty plus yards. Also this property in nineteen eighty nine was rezoned from agricultural to residential, At that time the square acreage of wetlands stood at eight point seven five acres. Magically now the square acreage of wetlands is about half. And this has been measured. and will allow for this project to move forward. Yes, we are saying the wetland acreage that used that was used to transform this
property from agricultural to residential was used today. This C PAL would not move forward. There is a sir surplus of land availability in the area of Pasco County, that would be a better fit and not have the same lack of transitional property type issues, such as the huge swarth of land on the north side of Ridge Road Extension. we realize that development is inevitable. But it would be best And more cost effective and practical to build this mini
city on property where it is already near the county sewer system, perhaps closer to the new Moffitt Center on the other side of Moon Lake Road. Please vote no. Thank you.
Yeah.
I'm gonna call up the next three behind you. Just give me a m moment, please. Um Lily uh Buelo.
Did I say that correctly? And then I believe I have duplicates. I have Joni Roberts and Dan Masm um Rasmussen, but I think it was written twice. Okay. And then the next person is Jennifer Calaghan. And then I believe I had another s uh duplicate which was Victoria Stein. There was a Vicky Stein earlier. So if there's a Victoria Stein. Okay, just making sure, thank you. And so the next person would be S uh Cindy Monastra Monastar. You
could line up. Thank you. Thank you.
I am Delyn Gaston and I live at [address removed] in Tanglewood East.
Are these apartments really useful? Our research has shown that there are plenty of apartments in the area that are currently not at full capacity. For instance, there's a complex behind the mall that has openings at this time. Also, we were a little wondering why there isn't a moratorium on apartment complexes in our district as there are in other districts within Pasco County. Additionally, regarding the utilities, the addition of utilities would be would not be needed if not for the small area of high-density housing.
in an otherwise large community that has been in existence for over 30 years without the need for these utilities to run to it. This is an issue that is created by misplacing a small sliver of Res 24 into a rural development which does not need it. This CPAL is simply not a compatible use of the property. One acre lots are not compatible with multifamily dwellings. It's like putting skyscrapers next to agricultural land, and it is completely inconsistent with the neighborhood.
Per the standards of on zoning that we've read, it's more than obvious the property calls for a series of transitional properties, and an apartment complex is the epitome of a non-transitional property at this location. Please know. That we all appreciate and we thank you for what you do to represent us. And we know that you have our best interest at mind and stand in place to vote on the issues that concern us. We are your constituents and we stand united together. And we have come here today
to ask you to please vote against this. There are hundreds and hundreds of signatures across multiple neighborhoods. Petitions and all of these are against this CPAL. Please hear our voices. Thank you for your time.
Thank you.
Good afternoon. My name is uh Lily Puleo. And I was actually supposed to be the last speaker, but I'll say what I have to say. In conclusion, members of the Board of County Commissioners, as representatives of all the citizens of Pasco County, You promised to give us the best possible service. value our input and feedback, and serve in order to make Pasco County the premier community to live, work and play in Tampa Bay. Now in order to maintain your profit promise, reflected in
your vision, your mission statement, and values, garner for yourselves a good reputation by adhering to your promises. The citizens of the impacted communities understand that the development of our county is inevitable. But they also realize that Pasco has ample vacant land. For the example for example, the Ridge Road extent expansion that you so actively support. to provide housing and accessibility for those potentially working. For the Moffitt Cancer
Center, the swath of virgin land from Moon Lake to Veterans Highway would better serve incoming residents and those presently living in established communities. Please let it be known that Pasco has. Honest. Intelligent, creative, and forward-thinking leaders by listening and acting to the recommendations of the citizens here today. They're here, that re that you represent. We understand the responsibility you bear. It can be challenging
and difficult. However, please understand That by petition, 700 citizens were very emotionally charged with respect to the impact of the project on their lives. We would like to apologize in advance for any statements made that you found offensive.
And thank you for your patience and taking the time to listen to us. We respectfully now ask the board not to proceed with this plan. Thank you.
Uh I'm Jennifer Caligan, [address removed]. Um I've owned The land my home is on since nineteen ninety. And My parents bought the next door land and developed it in 1989. At that point there was a plan involved and I am actually allowed to have a certain number of Cows per acre. certain number of horses per acre and there are horses
in the development and people ride them in the streets. Um chickens, no roosters. But anyway, it is definitely Don't mention chickens. Yeah. Not legal. Nothing nothing yeah. Nothing worse than a mad rooster. Um so I just wanted to set that straight that when I planned my retirement from the Army and then from the VA. I planned it where I am I have two or three
acres, I guess, but the way it's calculated is there's a lake which is a swamp with the you know, trees growing out of it, behind my house and behind my parents' house. and the land goes under the lake. So they're actually it's a one acre minimum, one per acre minimum, not the usual. Um
It's uh nature preserve. So looking across the lake, there well, let me just mention the endangered animals that are involved. Alligators, which m people may not be sympathetic to, but which would would be in that wetlands behind this project, south of this project. Where there are wetlands, there are alligators and hopefully they don't eat children.
There are also sand hill cranes. And The um Go for tortoise. And I see I stop several times a week. grab a turtle out of the middle of the road and move it. And I also see Turtles, broken shells dead on the side of the roads. Deer jump in front of my car with great regularity depending on the Okay. So anyway
The property involved is surrounded on almost four sides, by sinkholes. And I had a map but my my battery couldn't take it. So if you pull up a map of uh Ninety six forty. Ridge Road, you will see sinkholes all around. And again the wetlands behind and I nowhere have I seen Parking. for
four hundred cars plus whoever comes to the businesses. So maybe I just didn't see it on there, but we're talking about a massive horizontal land area for parking. and the inevitable traffic jams. Um I feel you know this sh This tiny, relatively tiny area needs to be moved somewhere that already has the infrastructure.
Thank you for your comments.
Thank you very much, and I hope you will vote no to this proposition.
Right. So as Ms. Mona Star approaches the microphone, one, two, three. I have uh four um speakers that are signed up, so I'm just gonna call your names. Um let's see. Christina, oh goodness, it's a Farah Ray.
No, forget that.
Farah. Okay, okay, so passing on that? Okay. Thank you. Let's see, John Camp uh Camponeco Campaneca. And I'm sorry if I pronounced the name incorrectly. John Campaneka and
John Campanella.
Oh Campanella. That's L's, not C's.
Campanella. Looks like N E L L A then?
But maybe I'm pronouncing it wrong. And Corona. And Cheryl Evangelist.
That's it. That's all we have signed up. Yes sir. Okay, if you could state your name and address. Thank you. Craig Will Board.
Hello, I'm Cindy Monastar. I live at [address removed], Tanglewood East. Um I am here today to present the petitions that we've had signed. I've got eight copies.
Let's receive a file. Second.
And I just wanna
second all those in favor say aye.
I just wanted to to to say um I've lived in Tanklewood East for twenty-seven years and we love it the way that it is and we hope that you will listen to our our prayers, our plea. Thank you.
Thank you.
Wait. Oh, you're not talking? That's done. Okay.
Yes, sir.
My name is John Campanella. I live at [address removed]. And uh okay. Yeah. And uh I have the I'd like to mention the following stuff. Uh I'm opposed to the C PAL twenty fifteen. I fear the development of the subject property will cause sinkholes in the Highlands of Tangowood East to reopen. and cause more property damage, personal injury andor death. The C P A L twenty fifteen is
not in the public's best interest. Yes, seven houses in the Highlands of Tangawood East Subdivision, adjacent to the subject property, have had sinkhole damage and repair. Four of the Sinkhole properties share the western boundary of the proposed development site. look at the Pasco County proper appraiser map under the Substance Sinkhole to see for yourself. Sinkholes are one of the most visible karst terrain features. This is a karst region. Just look
at all of the recorded sinkhole activity on the north and south sides of Ridge Road from Little Road to Moon Lake and the Cubulus. Single activity on the boundary of subject property is a warning sign that the developer and county should carefully consider. This is a hazard in terms of human injury, property damage, and is the threat to public safety and well-being. The subject property is comprised of Adamsville and Tavares soils. According to the US Department of Agriculture
Soil Series, Adam soil has a low pH and is a moderately acidic and is rapidly permeable. Tavaras soil has a very low pH and is strongly acidic. which are also rapidly permeable. Water passing through these soils becomes acidic as it percolates to the underlying limestone, where it dissolves the limestone structure and weakening. forming cavities and allowing superficial sediments to collapse. The subject property has two existing plugged
sinkholes and the area substance as identified by multiple tilted trees and depressions in the land, especially near the western property line. According to the Florida GeoG Geo Geological Survey, FSGS Special Publication No. 29. Construction activities such as excavating and dewatering for foundations. Heavy equipment traffic and altering natural drainage patterns can trigger
sinkholes collapse. Activities like mass grading escapes away from protective layers of soil, parking lots, paved roads, and divert the rainwater to new infiltration points. The weight of a four-story apartment buildings and man-made impoundments. Such as the retention basins used to store the runoff will create significant increase to the load bearing on the supporting limestone, triggering the collapse of overburdened cavity. The development of
this property will cause sinkholes in the Highlands of Tanglewood East to reopen and cause more property damage and personal injury or death to CPAL twenty fifteen, which will not preserve or enhance the public health, safety, and welfare.
Thank you for your comments. Yes, sir.
Ms. Corona.
Before the timer starts, can we receive a file
received
to be filed?
Got a motion a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Motion passed.
They previously came filed online. Sure.
Just the end.
Good afternoon, Commissioner Mariano, Fitzpatrick, Oakley, Starkey, and more. Thank you. Um I'm gonna try to reel this back to zoning because it seems to have been uh diversified. But um but
of course This isn't a zoning hearing. This is a this is a hearing on the comprehensive plan. So
Right, but the the focus is zoning, not the building itself.
Focus is the future land use of the site.
Okay, that's a wrong going.
Okay.
Ms. Corona. I got it. And Ms. Corona. Picking up what you're putting down. Ms. Corona. Also your name and address for the record, please.
Oh, and Corona. [address removed]. And we weren't sworn. P fifty three, why is that?
Because it's a legislative hearing because it's not zoning, it's it's comprehensive plan amendment. I see, gotcha.
Um okay, now you can start the timer. Um since it's only eleven days until July fourth. Um What kind of Republican would I be if I didn't mention either the Declaration of Independence or the Bill of Rights? In the interest of time, I'm gonna skip the Declaration of Independence, gratefully for you, I'm sure. When people form governments, they give those governments the control over certain natural rights to ensure the safety and security of other rights. Some of these rights include enjoyment of liberty, the means
of acquiring, protecting and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety. Since March twenty-third, when the residents first heard this proposal to go from Res One to Um PD, which is very vague, which is fast lane 1 to 24. They have been unable to enjoy these unalienable rights due to angst and disgust created by this situation. The rights of the residents of Tanglewood have been infringed upon not once but twice by Carolyn Sells, the owner of the
20-plus acreage, initially by the fact that for approximately 20 years the private has been an unsightly. Overgrown, decaying, disintegrating eyesore, which is unfortunately the gateway to our community, showing total respect for the residents. Infringement number two, again, her total disregard for the community, with the intention to sell the property for usage which is not zoned. And is not only of a different classification of the surrounding area, but also poses a danger to residents in many instances. There would be as many people
living in one lot as currently live on 750 acres, as many cars on one lot as are divided amongst 280 lots. The proposed change is a clear example of spot zoning. which is defined as the process of singling out a parcel of land for use classification totally different from that of the surrounding area for the benefit of the owner of such property and to the detriment of other owners. Generally zoning is a constitutional exercise
of the state's police power to protect public health.
Therefore, the zoning would be unconstitutional to the extent that it contradicts or fails to advance legitimate public purpose and promote community protection. In this case, the characteristics of the existing land are being decimated. The public benefit is non-existent. The spot zoning to a specific parcel within the larger zoned area is totally at odds with current zoning restrictions. This zoning undermines existing characteristics. And it's certainly as is usual with
spot zoning not aesthetic. I know you know that this is wrong. I know you know that the consequences of this egregious action will be devastating to Tanglewood East and its residents, many of whom have called this home for decades. Do not allow this fiasco to continue. Stop it here. Thank you.
Thank you for your comments.
Good afternoon. My name is Cheryl Klein Evangelista and I'd like to thank each one of you for allowing us to voice our opinions. I am here. Oh, my address, [address removed], and I am the second house in from Ridge Road, so this greatly affects our home. I am here for business owners who I know live in the Tanglewood East area who cannot be here because they're operating their business in order to pay for
their homes. I was fortunate enough to close our business today so I could be here and voice my opinion. What is the greatest investment that we have as an individual?
Not cars. Of course, unless you d drive a real expensive car. Yes, the greatest investment is life. But the greatest monetary investment is our home. Um I am fairly new to Tanglewood East. I lived in River Ridge for about 15 years, and I got married during that time. My husband and I drove through Tanglewood East for about two years.
And we have several different animals, birds, rabbits. And we looked at Tanglewood and we said, you know, this is an area that we would like to buy into and make this our home and retire. Our brick and mortar shop is on 19. So we want to keep our business separate from our personal life. We want a personal life, as I'm sure all these individuals here. А вот агрессию.
Um
Just relaxing, coming home after a hard day's work and relaxing and not having to worry and to be able to enjoy our investment.
So we purchased our home in 2015. Um We've lived there. uh since and I happen to go on the realtor dot com today Just to take a look to see and I know these are all inflated. But the realtor dot com showed our home value at four hundred and sixty four thousand. And it also says property overview. That our house is 91.81% more
expensive than nearby properties. I'm gonna ask you what's gonna happen when you put this complex in. Is my greatest investment gonna stay my greatest investment? Or is it going to decline and deteriorate? And there's going to be crime and traffic and all the things that we've talked about. We are all here because our homes are are our our greatest investment and we would like to keep our
homes the way they are rural, peaceful with the animals, the deer. Low traffic. And again, I ask you to vote no to this. And I do thank each and every one of you for your time. Thank you very much.
Thank you for your comments. Now that's the end of the list we have here. before you come up. Is there anyone here that would like to speak that was not signed up? If so. There's three of them, I see. Come forward to the podium. And this is the last time.
And if you would just line up in single file, please.
Hello.
My name is Jamie White and I live at [address removed]. Um I just wanted to come in today.
I'm a member of the uh Tanglewood East for like I think the last five years. Majority of our residents are older, retired, so it kind of bothered me when she put that sign up about how our mean um income for our residents was 56,000 or something like that. But the majority of our residents are retired, so they're gonna be on a lower income kind of scale, I would assume. But anyway, I bought into this house because I'm from Oklahoma. I wanted something that was rural. I came
to Florida kind of with what was in my car, and I really wanted a place with my children that they could run and not worry about traffic. We could have animals, we could have chickens, and I have donkeys. So this is what I wanted in my neighborhood.
Chickens, they want chickens.
We do, we like our chickens. My neighbors might not, but I like my chickens. Um anyway, so I like my chickens and we have our donkeys. And I got the donkeys to help protect against the bobcat, the coyotes, the fox. These are all things that I've actively seen chasing my chickens. So anyway, not to be a joke for my chickens, but I wanted a place for my children to have sort of a lifestyle that I had growing up, which I thought I was going to have to sacrifice when I came to Florida, which was not my choice, but I'm here and I'm happy and I'm very satisfied with where I'm
living with my two acres of land and my animals. So I'm really scared that this is going to be changing if this is accepted. I'm really nervous for the future of my kids being in this environment, being around this stuff. Having we walk along Sycamore, we I avoid Tanglewood because it doesn't have any kind of side roads. My children have to ride bikes with me along the roads, which makes sense. They're not that old. But anyway, there's just a lot of here. I'm very nervous about my neighborhood, my house, my children's safety, my animals.
And I really hope you guys hear us and please vote no. Thank you.
Name and address?
Hello. Can you hear me? Yeah. My name is Gil Sarabia. I live at [address removed] in Hidden Lake Estates. When County Commissioners make a decision, such as deciding on a rezoning request, you are obligated to consider what is just and what is fair to all citizens impacted by your decision. The property in question is surrounded by other residential areas, all of which have been zoned low density residential property since their inception. The subject
parcel. Which borders is I thought it was part of Tangwood East, but it's located practically in Tangwood East. Which borders this um The subject parcel is located in Tangle East, which borders this property to the south and the east. There are more than 250 families living in Tanglewood East. There are at least 20 families living in the highlands of Tanglewood East, which borders this property directly to the west. There are over 195 families living in Hidden Lake Estates to the northwest of this property, and there
are over 600 families in Golden Acres of very large expansive development to the north. Most, if all if not all of these families chose these homes because they wanted to live away from the same type of high-density population areas and apartment complexes that are being proposed in this rezoning request. These citizens chose to live in suburban and rural areas with more land and less people, and consequently less crime and danger to their families. So the question is this, what is
more fair? for one landowner to be allowed to rezone their property for financial gain in such a way that it would hurt their neighbors, which number in the thousands, Or is it more fair for the county commissioners to not allow this rezoning rezoning for the fine again for the financial benefit of just one family? at the expense the well being and peace of mind of over a thousand other families Remember, all families involved, including the subject property owners, obtained their land while it was zoned
as low density residential property. Over a thousand families should not be required to convince the county commissioners not to rezone this property to their detriment. We are not the ones requesting the change. We should not have the burden of persuading the commissioners not to change the rules so that a single landowner becomes a financial winner. While making the rest of us losers. This would not be the fair the fairness we have grown to enjoy in this country and not the equal justice we expect from our commissioners. Instead,
it is the commissioners who must give good reason for the rezoning, and otherwise convince the thousands of residents affected, that it is in our in our best interest, and we will not suffer harm in any way from your decision. Failing that Fairness and justice should compel you to vote against this rezoning. Also, there is no way you can guarantee the proposed multi story apartment complex will not someday become Section eight housing or something similar. such as the proverbial student
ghetto since Pasco County State College is less than a mile down the road. A four year college is a positive thing for this county. the student ghettos which can pop up around them are not and should be prevented at all costs. Finally, I hope this and any future zoning issues are not influenced by the current Biden administration's desire. To blue blur the line between urban and suburban living. Our desire to live in a safe and enjoyable neighborhood is not racist and not a
product of white privilege.
Your time's up.
Thank you. Can I just say one more thing?
No. Nope. Sorry. I
want to thank you for listening
to
that.
Thank you. Yes, sir.
Good afternoon. My name is Pete Perebsky. I live at [address removed] in Hidden Lake Estates. Um Uh I'm a pilot, uh sing licensed I'm an instrument rated s licensed pilot. I've been in the neighborhood for about twenty years. I'm not gonna speak to the aviation aspects, but I will tell you that I've flown in and out of here plenty of times. I don't as speaking as a pilot and Not as a airspace analyst. I don't know how a four storey building underneath where we take off is going to improve safety. But that's
not my point, the main point that I wanted to make. Um uh Ms. Willite Well, Going back, I attended the uh planning com commission meeting. And uh Some of the people the applicants uh experts spoke about the area this transition area aging out of being transition. Um I've also heard today the applicant, Ms. Willite, who's a fine attorney, speak about all the infrastructure and all the money that the county has spent to develop this area, the Ridge Road expansion being one of them.
And I'd like this there's a simple question I'd like to ask you. If this was if this was in the county's intention all along, when the Ridge Road expansion was planned, why wasn't all of the necessary infrastructure put in for a development like this? I that's a bit of a rhetorical question because I have first hand knowledge of why that wasn't. Prior to me my present position, uh I used to work for Pasco County. I was the utility program administrator. I worked for Mr. Carabella's success uh predecessor, Bruce Kennedy. I sat in many meetings with Bruce and with Pip and
Parik where uh we planned the uh capital infrastructure. That was what I did. We never considered putting in the force main because we didn't consider this area as being a urban area. This is a tr it's a transition area. If we looked at the master plan, we looked at the the county's comp plan. And that's w that so c that's why that's not there. It would have been easy at the time to put to throw in a forest main when we widened Ridge Road, but we didn't. Now they're t now the developer is saying that he's
going to b extend it. I don't know how he how he's gonna do it without impacting your constituents. He's either gonna tear up the new ridge road or he's gonna make a mess of uh tanglewood. Uh and if he goes down Tanglewood, I'd ask, are you going to open cut or are you going to do direct directional tri technology at five times the cost per linear foot?
These are just things that I'm wanting. I see no reason why all of a sudden this is something that the county needs to be considering. I thank you for your consideration. I respectfully request that you vote no for this. Thank you.
Thank for your comments. Ma'am, would you wait just a moment and the gentleman with the hat and the canes, I would like you to come forward to the Yes, sir.
That was nice
of you, Ronnie.
Okay. And we name an address for the clerk.
Yeah, Scott Jordan, um [address removed] and Tangowood East. We've been there since uh September September of eighty. Um one of the things that I noticed in the uh presentation today when we talked about the acreage that is not been put in the original plan from the 20.35. And I think this one point nine. The one thing that's glaring to me is that 1.9 is the only access directly with the plan.
to Tanglewood Drive. Now I don't know whether it was just an oversight or whether it was intentional. But it sure appears to me to be awfully funny now that this one point nine is A contention When if it's going to be a betention pond Even with retention ponds, you have right-of-way. So let's envision this. If we take it from Ridge Road and come south. There's gotta
be an easement at the end of that. pond or access to the property. That access, that easement is I'm sure enough for a car to drive through. And I think that what we're talking about is at some point people in that development are going to be saying I need a shortcut to Tanglewood Drive. And they would have access at the end of this retention pond to get to Tanglewood Drive and cause the
problem with the traffic that we've all talked about. Say no, please. Thank you.
Thank you for your comments.
Yes, ma'am, you come forward.
Name and address for the clerk.
I'm Debbie Kwallison. I live at [address removed]. Ma'am, could you just pull
the mic down?
I'm sure.
Just the just the end of it.
Just the end of Jingle.
Just the very end, the very end. Just it's like it's like this. Bend.
Bend it like that.
There you go. I don't follow instructions. Well, thank you. Thank you. I just wanna I know we're not supposed to but talk about traffic, but one of the points I have, and nobody said it, I'm sorry, I'm emotional. Is um To go from Ridge Road. to De Cebulus, down Tanglewood, there's zero
Ridge Road to the Cubulus down Little Road, you're gonna go seven lights. Seven. What way do you think people will go? I mean it's just a given. The shortest path Is of least resistance. Tailwood is very, very Bendy, I live on the first bend. And it's dangerous. When we built thirty two years ago, as we were building, a lady was killed. There. My
dog has been killed there. Not to compare a dog with a human, but Sorry, I'm just saying for my heart, this will cause so much problems. This will be ridiculous. Today that I love Pasco County. I know it's building. But that amount of building right in that one little area It's just too much. It's too much. Please. Somewhere else. I'm sorry to say that,
but it's too much in that little space. Thank you very much for your time.
Thank you for your comments.
Yes, ma'am.
Name and address?
Danielle Hartley, [address removed]. So I am in no way representing the school board of Pasco County, but I am a Pasco County School teacher. Um and I am much more comfortable talking to children than a room full of adults, but I and I I I'll be the first to admit, I don't know much about zoning. I've learned a lot more today than I probably have uh ever known. But I do know about kids and I couldn't in good conscience not advocate for those kids.
Let's say that that apartment complex only brings in 40 kids, 50 kids. Sure, when you look at the overall number at Cyprus, which as someone already said before, is closed for school choice because it's that capacity. Chasco Elementary, where I worked for four years, is also closed for school choice because it is over school capacity, and they keep adding portables, which have their own problems. But you add thirty, forty kids to a school and you change the ratios in a classroom. So yeah, the overall
numbers don't look that bad. The district school board probably said, We'll figure it out. Because that's what we do to take care of kids. We figure it out. But when you change my classroom from sixteen, seventeen, eighteen kids to twenty-two kids, to twenty-three kids, to twenty-six, twenty-seven That changes the quality of education I can provide for them. that changes how much time I get to spend with each of them. And that changes
the quality of education they receive. We know that our county school board struggles with money and paying teachers and all those things. The county wasn't even able to meet the governor's demands for s teacher pay. So we can't hire more teachers. So those students are gonna start falling through the cracks. And that's not what we want for our community, and I know that's not what you guys want for our community. So that's why I decided to speak up. That's why I didn't sign up. I didn't plan on doing this. Someone
has to speak for the kids. My kids live in this neighborhood. So I really, really suggest. I know that the official statement of the board is that sure we'll figure it out, but I feel like there's a better plan than this one. Thank you.
Thank you.
Yes, sir.
So my name is Jan Osten. I live at [address removed]. to uh the surprise of some of you, there's actually a further impact on some people in the back of Tanglewood in the southwest region where we actually have acreage with horses and cattle, uh just like the sales who you know bought rural property. And that's that's the problem here is we're we're we're mincing words and saying all of a sudden uh Rural property is now
all of a sudden city property. And we already have seen that as I've grown up in this area happen. I don't realize it's not Section 8 housing, but the impact of the same amount of people you have in all of Tanglewood condensed into one little 20-acre apartment complex. If you recall what happened in embassy when they added the uh the housing there, we hadn't had a murder in Pasco County for 30 years. There was two in the opening weekend. That's a historical fact you guys can look up. Then they opened up uh uh housing condensed like that in uh holiday.
And uh I I know you're probably familiar with the outcome of that area and and its degradation. And we'd like not to see that in our nice clean cut. community that recent and old time uh owners of properties have uh come to enjoy. So I'd impress upon you please to consider the impact of agrarian life that's also impacted by this rezoning in the southwest area of Tanglewood. I'd also like to further that probably for every one person that's talked or the one person that's
here, there's probably ten people behind them or more, each of them, that that you represent. And I ask you to represent the will of us, the constituent. Thank you.
Thank you.
Let's do it. Mm-hmm.
Sorry. Michael Sala, [address removed]. Picture in your mind uh Starkey Ranch development along 54 at Gunn Highway, you look northwest and you see Starkey Ranch apartments. Surrounding those apartments are that apartment complex are traditional uh excuse me, transitional land uses. And they start with high density residential radiating outward and descending densities, eventually reaching tracked home-size parcels. And it's there are commercial properties which separate
and uh from 54 and set back the apartment complex. Now imagine to pluck out only that Starkey apartment complex with any of those surrounding transitional uses and plop it into Tanglewood East while adding office and retail and that's events essentially what we have uh i in Tanglewood on a like size parcel. So reasons the board should deny is includes of course the uh local planning agency denied a three to one. Uh item number two would be a lack of
consistency with the comp plan in the application question C3C1, transitional land uses. where the applicant states that the project is a transition through time. And it goes on to say the character has changed and low density residential is no longer an appro appropriate long-term use. Well, Commissioner's time is not a transitional land use factor and has no relevancy in this discussion. Secondly, low density residential is as appropriate in this essentially built-out area as ever. And an example would be in an identical
situation on a like-size parcel which abuts the subject of the West, it was successfully redeveloped into single-family large R1 lots, and it's called the Highlands Entangled. Yeah.
Item number three. PD to Res1 is the only future land use classification adjacency that is not automatically approved by the Complan. the applicant cannot provide sufficient site design transitions for the magnitude of an apartment complex, because one, the site's too small, and two, it's proposed in an area of essentially built out res one, which by its very nature is devoid of any uh viable transitional elements for the proposed use. Now I know this is not a zoning hearing. However, I have a
question. Uh I'm going to move on.
You have another minute, Mike.
Okay. Um the question would be, has staff done any research on whether this action is or contributes to a backdoor spot zoning? I know if apartments were approved in res one, I'd be arguing with the at the zoning hearing that the use would be a spot zoning. So if the land use is approved as recommended, the zoning change to MPUD would be consistent with the sub-area policy and make it much more difficult to challenge. So the question is, has staff does any research on how spot
zoning may apply to this application and its subsequent MPUD? And have they declared that there are absolutely no legal conflicts or negative ramifications to inadvertently contribute towards the spot zoning?
Item number five.
In an analysis submitted by Joel II, uh in conjunction with a complete amendment approved by the board in February, it revealed that of the twenty two Class A apartments developed in Pasco County since twenty ten, virtually all are located in the immediate proximity of the fifty four fifty six six corridor. One exception is the Gables of Gulfview, which is a redevelopment of a portion of the mall. And it's nearest to the subject site. It's four miles away. Along your time, so thank you. Please deny. Thank you.
Yes, ma'am.
Hello, my name is uh Wendy Kirchner. I live at [address removed] in Tanglewood. Um I know that this is for you guys not an emotional personal issue as it is for us and for me. Um I also work at a school, but the school I work at is in Citrus County. That's how much I love this neighborhood. I I'm also sorry for getting emotional, but I drive two hours every
day just so I can live where I live.
Crazy. I appreciate your guys' time listening to all of us and all of our concerns and even all of our emotions and I just would like you to vote no. Thank you.
Thank you for your comments.
Yes, ma'am.
Hi, my name's Katarina Virgos. I was I live on [address removed], also in Tangulwood Drive, and Tangalwood East. I was not planning with talking, but I heard a couple of my other colleagues that they are educators as I am too. Um Currently, I work for Deer Park Elementary School. That was my first year, but before that, I worked at Gulf Side Elementary School down in Holiday. And why I'm saying this is because I want to focus on the traffic issue. My school, Deer Park, lets out, or last year
with COVID, was we were letting out at 3:10, and by 3:25, the latest, the car loop was empty. Gulf Side that I worked down there for seven years. We were let out at 350 and by three uh four fifteen the car loop was empty. I leave from Gulf uh from Deer Park to go home and it's four twenty, four thirty and the traffic is still backed up on Tanglewood Drive on both sides and I have to wait until I can get through. And mind
to tell you uh Stiprus Elementary School lets out at three thirty and by four twenty there's still traffic. So m with that in mind, what is going to happen? Like my other colleague said that works and lives in the area and in the neighborhood that Even with thirty, forty, fifty new students coming to Cypress Elementary School and the additional traffic going through on Tangolu Drive, what is going to happen to that neighborhood? It's going to be drastically, incredibly
Bad, dangerous, kids going by with bicycles. My son is fifteen years old and I dread I dread the moment that he says, Mom, I want to go for a ride with my bike. Because Tanglewood Drive and Sycamore Drive are Full of people, our neighborhood, neighbors, outsiders that they're cutting through, and I don't let my 15-year-old going through. So, what is that gonna happen with an additional 350 units coming, with 40, 50 students going to school, whether riding their bikes or not,
with no sidewalks, no street lights, and we like it that way. I live in that neighborhood, I'm almost done. I live in the neighborhoods. Since nineteen ninety-four. And I love that. My son's been born and raised there. So I want him to raise to to live there and everybody else and my neighbors. We have horses, not me personally, but we want to preserve that area. And I I appreciate what the new developers want to do, but I believe that there's other areas in
Pasco County more suitable than the corner of Tanglewood Drive and Ridge Road. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Please vote no.
Last speaker. Are there any other speakers that want to I've already
asked that? They already asked. We're done, right? He is the last speaker before the uh applicant comes back up. Okay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. Before I start, uh I have a packet. I have an original packet for the Move to receive and file. Second.
Motion second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Well, obviously, this is an emotional issue for many. It's also an issue that we believe is safety related. My name is Craig Laporte. I live at [address removed] and Hidden Lake Estates. And I'm here to talk about something that was brought up by Ms. Will Hight, but is really more in my forehead. And that's the Hidden Lake Airport, the impact of this development on the airport itself, and the potential safety issues that arise from that. Now Miss Wilhite, uh being a very intelligent attorney
and whom I have the utmost respect for, indicated that she's brought someone she says is an expert in airport Um, and I'm sure she is, so I think it's incumbent on me to give you some background so you understand. I believe I have as much expertise as perhaps her witness. Uh, I've been flying for over 49 years. I've been flying in and out of Hidden Lake Airport for 49 years. I've been a resident of Pasco County for 49 years. I'm on the board of directors of the governing board of the airport. I serve as its vice
president. I work day in and day out with our airport uh operations manager. Uh I know most of the pilots. By way of background, Hidden Lake Airport was uh was constructed in nineteen seventy-two as a private airport. But it is not solely a private airport. It is used by other people with permission of uh our organization. And so we routinely have aircraft coming in and out from other areas. We have over 85 aircraft based at the airport, including single engine, multi-engine,
turboprops, and helicopters. Recently we had Bay flight there as a tenant operating out. The airport operates twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week. It is lighted, it has precision approach indicators. Um and it is very busy. We also provide instructional not instructional flights, but we have a Young Eagles program that on Saturdays about five to six times a year, we will fly anywhere from forty to sixty young people between ages eight and seventeen in up to ten aircraft.
So it becomes a very, very busy airport during that time frame. The reason that I'm bringing that to your attention is because this development has a direct impact on the flying characteristics of our airport. And I've provided you with a diagram that is it it's in your package and it's up on the board up here. Aircraft, we have a single runway, runway 523. It runs northwest northeast and southwest. The predominant pattern that we use is what's called a left-hand traffic pattern, meaning aircraft
approaching the airport, if they're going to land to the northeast. They enter a downwind. phase over Hidden Lake, which by the way, That area is spectacular because it is all property that is owned by Swift Mud that the county, I understand, is investigating using for flood mitigation. So it's never going to be a problem from a development standpoint. However, at the very bottom of that traffic pattern where aircraft begin to make a left hand turn to enter what's called the base leg, which is perpendicular to the runway,
The aircraft are getting lower and slower. The pilots are are very busy at that point. putting down landing gear, uh watching for traffic, uh watching their altitude, watching their airspeed, and it is a critical phase of flight in the approach. The FAA and the NTSB have done studies. It's called the NAL Report. Over fifty percent of all general aviation accidents in this country historically occur during the approach and landing phase of flight, this
apartment complex is gonna be directly below a portion of that approach corridor. Now, I've been asked, is the fact that it's a four-story apartment gonna affect us? Candidly probably not. It may change some wind patterns, but we come in and out of Hidden Lake, we're used to that. But what does concern us is the density. I can assure you, if we have an aircraft that goes down in Tanglewood Drive and manages to land on a street, and God forbid the the pilot and crew are injured or killed, that's gonna be a a
newsworthy item of local interest. If the airplane lands and hits a house. In Tanglewood. and somebody in the house has hurt, it's gonna be an interest of interest regionally in the news. But I guarantee you, if one of the aircraft goes down and strikes an apartment complex with multiple casualties, it will be a national interest news story. And of course the first thing that would come out was obviously it was an act of terror because nowadays every aircraft that hits a big building is an act of terror. Um and
then and that will not get cleared up for many, many months. But airplanes do fall out of the sky. It happens. And so we want you to realize that that is a real possibility. It's not a likely probability, but it is a possibility, and I think you need to be concerned with that. You know, the Florida Department of Transportation promulgated A hand uh airport, airspace, and land use guidebook. Chapter 333 of the Florida statutes relates to land use planning around airports.
Now, admittedly, that is around public airports. It does not mandate that you employ these around a private airport. However, an airport is an airport. The dangers are the same whether it says it's a public or a private airport. And I think it's instructive when you read, and I'm not gonna read it to you because I don't have time. I've got a minute and a half left. When you read how important the Florida Department of Transportation thinks that airports are to the economic infrastructure in a community, and how high density
housing near an airport is highly Uh it's highly recommended that you not allow that to occur. Their experts are going to get up and talk about airport safety zones. Well, admittedly, there are airport safety zones that are designed to avoid certain dangers. The approach uh immediate areas on landing and takeoff, there shouldn't even be roads, never mind or bushes or anything else. We get that. There's noise abatement areas, we get that. But do we need to put this Development, high density development in the
immediate area of this airport. We're just asking for problems. And I want to remind you of one other thing. Hidden Lake Airport also serves as an emergency landing airport for many aircraft. Recently we had a Coast Guard Jayhawk helicopter had to make an emergency landing on our airport property because of an engine malfunction. We've had aircraft crash on takeoff going out of Hill Lake Airport. It happens. It's not common, but it happens. If we take off on the southwest runway and have to make a right-hand turnout, whether for traffic or or or
we're being directed by the FAA to make a turnout on an instrument departure, we're going to go right over that apartment structure at three or four hundred feet at full power. Um I also want to point out to you, Hidden Lake Airport is your emergency airport in the west side of this county. There is no other airport west of US forty one since Tampa Bay Executive Airport was closed, and we operate under an emergency management agreement with you to allow Emergency aircraft, humanitarian aircraft, military aircraft
to land. So we would encourage that you vote no on this. Thank you very much for your time. Appreciate your attention.
Oh, same bad chair would not. Hey, m Mr. Chair, can we can we have a five minute recess before we do I mean I don't know if anybody else does, but I wouldn't mind a five minute recess before we go into rebuttal.
I have the gavel. We'll have a five minute recess. That's the only time
you need to have the gavel. That's pretty funny. All right. I like that. Short recess.
Hey, I get go to the restaurant when y'all go. It's a five
We'll call the meeting back to order, but we have a couple people we need to be sitting up here. One's our county attorney. Yeah.
We only have one male restroom.
So here he comes.
And it I've learned one lesson today. I've learned not to turn the gavel over to a lady. Thank you.
I've got an You would disagree with that.
And it's overlaying
here. We have this huh? That's not close to you from
it. Okay. Ms. Wellhright? Your rebuttal?
Thank you, Commissioner Oakley. I before my team comes up here, who are the technical experts, um, on the lot the non-land use issues, you've heard a lot of a lot of testimony and a lot of it is based upon you know picking things out of the comp plan and picking things out of the code. For example, 901.6, those are the development standards that we have to comply with. So we can't be inconsistent with the actual development standards we have to comply with. quoting of comp plan policy that apply to your rural areas. Yes, I acknowledge that policy,
but it doesn't apply here. The um the the airport presentation I have an an airport airspace expert that I'll go through, but I noticed something really important. Didn't talk about it being an airport an air space hazard? Mr. Laporte didn't. Didn't talk about it being inconsistent with the runway protection zone, which protects takes off and landings. Didn't talk about it being a land use compatibility issue if you had land use compatibility zoning. The actual things that you look at for airports under Florida statutes three
thirty three O three. There is no issue with. And he didn't debate the any of those things. So I'll have my expert quickly go through and just explain to you what his analysis consisted of.
I wrote it down, which is basically density in an airplane may fly fall out of the sky. Well, as I flew into Tampa Airport over the weekend, there's lots of of um and that's in a major airport, there's lots of buildings that are high, there's there's hotels, there's a lot of different things, and and my expert can address that.
Mm Mr. Chairman Mariano. Just to cover that one subject. Do you do I have a question for her?
Mm-hmm.
When you're not going to be able to do that. Um subject comes up It talks about high density development. So instead of being more rural, more density is as far as an issue. It talks about on his map. How the downwind flight trail that they're they would go on. The flight path would have to s circle around and go right over that. Have them cover that. And it also says in here That tall structures should not be around an airport as well. So I have him address all those that are in the booklet. Yep,
you've got all those things? Okay. Well why don't I let him stand up here and hear from somebody other than me for for a few minutes.
Presentation.
I guess you might as well tell us who you are.
Yep. Sorry. Douglas Saunders uh with C S Companies, my address is eleven eighteen Winter Springs, Florida, three two seven zero eight. Yeah.
All right, so Doug Saunders, I just told you where I'm from. So I've been doing this business for twenty years, only aviation engineering. I'm a professional engineer. Um always done layout in Florida and across the United States at probably hundreds of airports. So do a lot of uh a lot of layouts for small airports and big airports.
Here we go. Over U Plan we know where the jobs at and everyone's kinda referred to that quite a bit. So regarding the flight procedures. Very common. It's the VFR airport. And I'm gonna say I'm all about safety. I mean, that's my business, being a professional engineer. So wanna make sure we're all about safety, but that's why there's standards. You can't have an over an over abundance of safety, over abundance of the caution. I mean you'd never be able to build anything in the world. So Really the FAA for VFR follows FAA, which is Federal Aviation Administration, so no acronyms, advisory circular, 90-6666B
talks about VFR visual flight rules for flights. He did mention standard left-hand traffic, so that's how the planes come in. As you see, the white kind of flies in across. Really that base leg he mentioned is really pilot choice. If it's VFR, that's not someone choosing that leg. They're choosing when they want to turn. It's their choice. They can choose whoever they would like to. And again, that location, they're sitting five to six hundred feet above the top of the apartment complex. And mind you, the power lines that are Long Ridge Road are ten to fifteen feet higher
than the highest point of that apartment complex is gonna be. Um take off. When they take off on two three He did mention about um IFR, which is instrument flight rules, but typically it's VFR and even which is visual flight rules. So even when it's IFR instrument flight rules, technically supposed to do you're supposed to follow their left-hand traffic. If they're going right-hand traffic, they're going against traffic. So it's gonna be uncommon if they do that. And it's still they really originally should fly out to to uh to plane. So they should fly past the apartment complex.
And on our normal procedure, they're actually gonna turn left base when they take off over the college is their normal procedure.
Uh talked about public zoning regulations, that's that's again we always talked this is a private airport, so this isn't really relevant. But even if it was, it wouldn't matter. This is all about noise. Um this could get built where it's at based on um you know statute three um thirty-three oh three as we talked about. It's fine, it can go there. Even if it was Tampa International, Clearwater International.
Safety and protection zones. None of these zones are within this apartment complex. There is a Ronaldo Protection Zone, which is where planes would normally it's it's by the FAA, Federal Aviation Administration keeps the area safe. That's where planes could potentially go down to Likeled, as you mentioned. Now that area is on Ridge Road and it's actually in the college. So those are areas of concern for the airport, but not really for the apartment complex.
Regarding tall structures, um so tall structures is very important. We don't want uh objects sitting way up in the air. Um so that's why they have uh things called threshold siding surfaces, part 77 surfaces for all these types of surfaces they have here. Well we evaluated that. So if you go to this area here, um There's power lines along Ridge Road and the surface. Technically, but our area is in the considered the horizontal surface. But it's way above us. We're sitting at elevation 95, the surface is
at 176, so we have a clearance at 81 feet. So in FAA's mine, it's perfectly clear. Tall structures do not matter. Anything can get built as long as within that area. So it's good to go. And in the end, really, I concur with the FA's determination. The Federal Aviation Administration reviewed this project and said it was a determination of no hazard to air navigation. I concur with that and our reports in there as well.
Thank you. I'll have Steve Henry come up. A lot of conversation about traffic and so let me have Steve Henry address that.
Okay.
Good afternoon. Steve Henry, Lingston Associates, 5023 West Laurel, Tampa, 33607. We did the traffic analysis for this project as indicated this is a plan amendment. So there's a there's a series of analysis we have to do for projects. This one being a plan amendment, we do what's called a needs assessment. And that actually looks at the project and looks at the twenty forty five volumes and roadway network to determine whether or not this plan amendment will have an effect on the twenty forty-five roadway network. And that was what what it
was done and that's what uh Ms. uh Will Heided had indicated the the VC ratio that is out there today uh based on the t projected 2045 volumes with the increase in traffic associated with this project. In addition to that, as As we go through the process, we will do what's called a timing and phasing analysis to look at the level of service of the adjacent roadways. And then we also do an access management analysis. That gets into much more detail of the project. Those analysis have actually been submitted to the county
in our review right now. But one thing I want to say is that we do not have access to Tanglewood Drive. Have no access to it. There's not proposed to be any access to that other than emergency access. So the when we looked at the distribution of traffic. Today. there may be traffic going through Tanglewood. Part of that reason is as as some of the residents had said, it's to get to the retail on fifty four, it's to get to the veterans. Well what's changing out there is Ridge Road. Ridge
Road is now going to go to the Sun Coast Parkway. Much faster way to get to the Sun Coast and then instead of going down Tanglewood to Cubulus and then down Starkey is to go Make a right out of the project, go down to the the uh Suncoast Parkway. In addition to that, ultimately that's gonna go to forty one. Um in addition to that as y you all know that the project Angeline, which is currently under construction, uh that is gonna have retail, uh gonna have jobs, gonna have Moffitt, gonna have schools.
Uh so there's quite a bit of of from that standpoint, that's why we looked at the traffic distribution changing and that our our distribution we believe is correct in in looking at that and where people are going. Uh one of the because If you were going to use Tanglewood to come from the south, you'd have to come up to Ridge Road. Make a left. You then have to make another left into the project. Uh so the the ability to do that and and the propensity to do that is minimal. Also talking about the students.
Uh in the in the staff report and actually in our calculations, there's only 27 elementary students based on the Pasco County calculation of number of students that would be generated by this project. Not all those would go to the that school, but that that's the number. It's not forty or fifty that you were kept hearing as to that that number of of students. Uh twenty-seven. That that's the number of elementary students that would be projected to be generated by a multifamily project. And
then finally,
how does that break out? It's a I know it's a per unit.
Correct. Yes. I I I actually have that. I can tell you what that is. It is So I don't want to misquote. Uh multifamily is 0.115 per dwelling unit is for multifamily. For single family, it is 0.18. So a single family home has a little bit more number of students than a multifamily project would. Um and then finally, you know, one of the things that that kept coming up was that uh you know the the the traffic on Tanglewood
and and the the amount of you know uh impact the school has on that that traffic. Again, if you're if you now have alternative ways to go, which you didn't today, would you use that if you have to sit in traffic at the school when you're trying to cut through? Probably not. You you have alternative ways to go now with the Ridge Road extension. So that includes my presentation unless you've got any questions.
Did you um
No, I I I just had a question.
You mentioned y your estimate was twenty students, is that what you stated?
Well that no that is that is your school board's calculations, twenty-seven students. That is what your they use in their factor to determine how many elementary students would be generated by a
how many how many how many um people are you are you estimating that would live in these apartments?
Pardon me? I mean w what what w our our traffic w the the analysis that we do is based on the number of units, not necessarily the number of people in in the apartment project.
Okay. Do you know or maybe Ms. Woolhite, do you know What the average the typical average is for a apartment complex of how is this two thirty, is that right?
Correct. Uh for the number of of people that would be living there? I I do not know though. I do not know. We don't we our our traffic generation is not based on that. I know.
Mr. Chairman Mariano.
Yeah. So I mean you're you're probably yeah two two two thirty You're looking at Five hundred and eighty one people by U S averages from that scope? Yeah, I I
don't know.
So I'm just trying to figure out I'm just curious. I'm just curious how you're getting you're saying the school board got twenty, but I would assume they would What?
I'm just trying to figure out where those numbers came from. I would think you'd put put it poor estimate per household. And there's so many people who are gonna be estimated per household.
Well it's not a it's about units. It's a formula.
I have the formula. I have the
formula.115 times two thirty?
Yeah.
It's twenty six point four five.
I have it right here.
Yeah.
Yeah, two three three. Yeah, two point five three five seventy. So I'm just trying to m my question was again, how you how do you get twenty-seven out of out of five. It's two
thirty times point one one five. One point one eight is single families. And so for multifamilies it's point one one five times two thirty, which is twenty six point four five.
Mr. Chairman Mariano.
No, no, I was next.
Well I was I want to give him his answer. So it's it's twenty seven elementary. It's twelve middle and sixteen high school. That's about the calculation.
Ms. Starkey?
Um I this is a traffic question. I gotta see if I can ask this right. Um so three percent of project traffic will tangle on will travel on Tanglewood. Going to other places. S because the grocery store is down to the right. Jobs are mostly to the right. Uh but if they want to go. To some restaurants or shopping. Some could go down tanglewood. I I've dried down tanglewood
every now and then. Um W what number is three percent?
And is that during how many hours?
That that is twenty four hours a day.
So do you well, I don't think you would Divide that by twenty-four because people hopefully are driving down there at three in the morning. But yet you could say in a ten hour day Or twelve hour day.
Typically I mean for peak hours, the the PM peak hour might be five or six. The morning right in the morning it may be six or seven cars. Again, it it's it's spread throughout the day. But that is a the estimates that we give are based on a twenty four hour day. That's how ITE does it. Okay. Granted the you know, it during the peak periods it goes up and then
Right. If it were in a graph form You wouldn't show too many in the overnight hours, but it would be
correct. It's
spread out during the day. Correct, yes. Okay. Yes. Okay, thank you.
Mr. Commissioner Weightman. So at that three percent number, um I I just find it A very hard number to understand. You did the test during the COVID times or was it done before?
Well the so two things. W one is the the the needs assessment that we did, which is what this one this this was done uh based on your 2045 volumes. So it really has no effect on COVID has no effect on those. Those are all model volumes looking at what the twenty-four uh twenty-forty five projection is for traffic. Uh we use the IT. trip generation, which again is not based on COVID. We did do a timing and phasing and access management
analysis and we did do counts during COVID, although you're we have we have monitored traffic throughout COVID and when we did these counts uh based on area wide studies that we have been doing in Pasco County, the COVID had very little effect on the traffic during the the PM peak hour. And we've done those counts. Your staff has looked at those. I your your your traffic people have looked at that and has said the volumes have come back to you know pre-COVID uh
numbers. Because I I imagine if I'm traveling from I'm going to Sun Coast Parkway and I'm going to come back. And I'm gonna go hit a long fifty four. There's all sorts of shopping down there that's you can't get just at the Under Ridge Road. And all those people are going to be traveling through there. They're going to s get off early at fifty-four rather than come up to the Ridge Road Extension, do this shop and they're coming back up that way. They've got to be coming more trips than that on on on Tangler Drive.
Well again, you you
do factor. Do you factor that in or are you just looking at numbers based on twenty forty five where so many people are gonna now use Ridge or they aren't using it now because now they get the Sun Coast and in 41, that those numbers are gonna dwarf immense numbers over what's going on right now. But those still people are coming back in that area, I still think the number of trips, did you do the wholes wholesale kind of like trips that are gonna be coming back up through compared to what's going on right now?
Well and and if Ridge Road were as it was five or ten years ago, still out a ways, might be a different story. But here we we actually have it under construction. The interchange and road will be open this year. You've got you know Angeline that that's under construction doing major construction out there. So from from that standpoint Today on the roadway network, you you are probably correct. There may be more. But that roadway network is changing. next year. And so from our standpoint,
that's what we looked at was What is gonna happen in the very near future to that roadway network. And it is going to change it significantly because you've got a brand new road. You've got a brand new interchange, so it is going to change the traffic patterns in that area significantly. So our belief is that the distribution that we have in there is a reasonable distribution based on You know, where the demands are for track for the the attractors and the roadway network that they will use to be able to get there.
Okay, and and and and I think your calculations are probably accurate percentage-wise. But what I'm trying to get to is what is the ro what's the gross number, how many trips are going down now to what's gonna happen later on with these units come in? Because all of a sudden you're gonna have two hundred and thirty more units. Five hundred and some more people, they're gonna be coming from somewhere over there most likely by the by the by your own calculations. And a lot of those people are gonna come out down fifty floor and come up Tangowood going that way. When they're coming home, if they're gonna stop and do something, whether it be go eat, go get some groceries, or something else
coming up there. Have you looked at what the wholesale number of tri the whole the gross number of trips are for that?
That's what we're saying. It's about eighty eighty eighty trips per day is what we're estimating.
im additional impact of traffic on Tanglewood with once the Ridge Road and all that is is done and with the with the full development of our project. Because again So it's eighty tri eighty trips additional. Correct. How many is it right now? How many do we does this property put on there? Right now. Obviously zero.
No, no,
no. Oh how many trips are on the road today? Today. Uh I can tell you that that is there's probably we haven't done daily counts, but the uh it's probably somewhere around Uh fifteen hundred to two thousand trips per day on Tanglewood Drive. And what is it going to go to when
these come up?
Add fifty, add eighty cars to it. So it again you're looking at you're looking at probably you know, the the the amount of the percent increase in traffic is gonna be negligible. It it will not be discernible.
Okay. Well Mr. Chairman Mariano. Mr. Moore? Well you guys gotta
Thank you. Um just a question, maybe it'll help me to see how you got to these numbers. So how many cars do you guesstimate per unit?
How do I? But now you're looking for daily or peak hour? No, I want to know how many cars per unit you guesstimate. So there's two hundred thirty units, how many cars are you guesstimating per unit? Again,
we we don't do it based on the number of cars. What what our analysis is based on ITE, which is the Institute of Transportation Engineers, uses formulas based on the number of units. And what we're looking at is how much traffic does that generate. Okay. Somebody could have five cars, but they can only drive one. So so what we look at is what they look at is How many vehicles? So what they'll do is they'll put a hose across a driveway for a project like this, a multifamily, and find out how many cars go across that hose on a daily basis,
on a peak hour basis. Okay. We don't care how many cars are in the parking lot. We care how many cars go across that hose. And so that's what we look at. And that's what IT looks at, and that's what we're looking at. So we don't really know. How many cars people own?
Do you just from your background and your you know pr and your professional opinion, would you say one point seven seven cars per unit is about right?
Uh actually based on ITE, because we do a lot of parking studies, it's about one point five, one point six in in that range is about what we're seeing as far as a parking ratio. So probably four hundred plus
cars then is what we're looking at. Right, right.
Okay. Let me ask you. But the formula you're using is a formula we use for all projects.
Every th th this is a this is national data. We use it for every project in Pasco County. Yeah, that's what I was saying. That's correct. Yes.
Thank you.
Thank you. I think we have heard a lot. I do want to just go through um compatibility um because you've heard a a lot about compatibility. Is there anybody to get my slide presentation back up so I can put on the concept plan?
What I wanna tell you w as the site plan's coming up, as we get the PowerPoint back up, is that There's no residential homes adjacent to residential homes. There's five homes. adjacent to this property, that aren't already buffered by wetlands. There are homes, our property goes down south and there but there's wetlands along our southern boundary. So there's five homes. We are a project on Ridge Road. We're not in Tanglewood. We're a project on Ridge Road with five homes adjacent.
When you look to that house on Tanglewood that has an adjacency, and I looked at it very carefully, There's an existing Trees. very mature trees, both on their property and on our property. And we're gonna keep the trees on our property. for that to buffer that home in addition to putting a pond in that location and keeping our buildings a football field away. On the east side, we'll on the west side where the four homes are. Um If there's an issue with the wall their existing wall My
client can if anybody's act would talk to my client, we can talk about that wall and anything that we be can d be done to help their existing situation. We are planning a a very um A dense buffer along those four homes. We'll work through that in the MPUD with county staff to meet their satisfaction. As as Mr. Pito said to you, compatibility in this context is about site design. And we've done a lot to design our site very specifically to
meet the comp plan site requirements for this property next to Res1. I would say those four homes, as Commissioner Starkey said, to the to the west are not one-acre lots, not three-acre lots, not five acre lots. They're 0.65, 0.71, 0.61, and 0.63. So they're more more closer to half acre lots. Um And again, right now The zoning allows a homes behind them thirty five feet.
off their homes. Our buildings will be three hundred plus feet a football field away.
In summarizing
You've heard of the easement.
Squares, rectangles, whatever.
Yes. Parking garage.
Parking garage.
So these are parking garages. Thank you. I should I put this up and then didn't do anything with it. These are parking garages. They were to have residences over top of them. but when there was any concern about proximity of of um residences in con in proximity to those four existing homes, although I'm not sure anybody was here today for those homes. Um they were okay um then we took off those and they're just they're not gonna be occupied, those are just gar just
garage units along here and here. And along here.
Barbara, did you have something else you wanted to receive?
Yeah, sure. I just wanted to wrap up. Yeah. I unless there's any other questions about compatibility and
I made a motion. I well no,
are
you continuing on yet 'cause I have questions. Are you continuing on the
right-of-way just finish and then we I I just have a summary l my my last little summary
thing. Did you have something to receive and file?
Yes,
I do. Oh.
Move to receive and file. Second.
Yeah, motion and second. All those in favor say aye. Aye.
Thank you. I wrote that four times to forget to not forget to say that, and I forgot it anyhow. What are we receiving?
And that's the that's the PowerPoint and the study from that you passed out before the story. Correct. Okay.
Correct. Thank you. So let me just summarize here just quickly um Our plans your plans that you've put in place for many, many years, I thought it was interesting to hear from the the gentleman who used to work at the county. I worked with Mr. Bramlett and Mr. Parique too. I left in 2008. They left around the same time. He m that may have been the situation when he was here, but your plans changed. Your plans changed in 2006, 2008, 2010, 2013. You changed your plans to make this an urban service
area. So to look at what those plans were, maybe when he was there, those are prior plans. Your plans that you've been working on since 2006 for the last 15, 16 years, for this area, for this property. um follows your infrastructure. Very methodically follows your infrastructure. My developer followed your plans. He looked at everything that your adopted plans say for him to do and where to make his investment in Pasco County and he followed it. And
he followed where you want it. And there's very all the reasons why you have those policies in place we went through. Staff. in coming up with their professional opinion also followed your plan. Even I thought Mr. Pitos explained the comp plan, explained compatibility and transitional uses and site um design and all those things really well. Single-family homes coexist all over the county with multifamily, with much less setbacks and buffers than football fields. So with that, this
is a transmittal. We have a ways to go. This is the first step. You're not approving anything today. We have to work with the the county on the MPUD to make sure that all the things that I've shown here. We actually have to do. With regard to this lot, staying res one, that's actually a benefit for the community because it will never be, it can never be developed with any of our apartments or any of our commercial. It has to be be what we're gonna do with it is a pond. So it's actually a benefit to the community by
having that land use remain in that place. next to that one existing home that's adjacent to us on the southeast. So we'd ask for you please to to transmit it. Let us continue to work on this with your staff, work on the MPUD, answer any other questions
that you have.
Oh my gosh.
You're not allowed to do that.
And with that I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.
I have Mr. Chairman Mariano.
Ms. Ms. Patrick.
I've heard I would like to clarify uh just a few things because I've had heard some rumors. Um, the trees that you were planning on putting in, they're supposed to grow fifteen feet a year. Is that true or not correct?
Let me have my project engineer.
Where the trees there there are?
Users
um I recognize it.
Commissioner Oakley Civil 17937 Hunting Bow Circle in Pasco County. Um the trees grow anywhere from six to twelve feet a year depending on fertilizer and water. These are super fast growing trees, primarily used for buffers.
Thank you. Um it was a hundred and seventy eight thousand residents in a square circumference of this area? In two miles. In two miles.
Yeah, my wife.
I'm still going back and forth with the airport because I know we've talked about airport protection plans, but I have Three different photos showing three different areas. I have from county staff where it does not go over. I have from Mr. Laporte where it does go over, and then I have from an air That it's like right on the edge. So I am just trying to clarify exactly where The airport
yellow protection lines are gonna be.
Let me have um Doug come up here. Um
And
that wasn't
a very good thing.
the slide that you maybe that you just had in your hand.
Yes, because I've got two and that's like in the middle of the other two.
Yeah, this this is a a line that represents the air the land use compatibility. If you were doing land use compatibility for a public airport, this is an area where you would look at the compatibility of of homes and in proximity to an airport. Uh
that would be the airport protection area when we do in tur in the future look to adopt one of the airport protection area.
Your land use compatibility protection
area, yeah. This is not going to be a public airport though. Right. The Hidden Lakes is not a public airport. So they're showing you what if this was a public airport. What? The What that protection area would be. But this never will qualify under three thirty three unless it's taken over by Public entity.
And then just to clarify, this is or is not affordable housing.
This is not affordable housing, this is class A income qualified sixty to sixty five thousand a year to be able to rent.
My client has uh other projects. This is not his first project and he has a outstanding track record of the projects that he uh that he's put in these other in communities.
And you're in a future land use hearing and that is an irrelevant question. Okay. Sorry, Commissioner.
Thank you. Future land use. years.
Thank you for your question. Thank you, everyone.
All All right, right, Ms. Ms. Starkey.
Just because it was brought up about the sewer, the sewer lines and the infrastructure so we know the road infrastructures there, the trails there. Um the So if you could speak to the investment of the sewer And knowing that our state's trying to get off a septic, no no one in Tanglewood is gonna be required to get off a septic, but I'll tell you, our governor and our Senate president is trying very hard to get people off a septic. So what's going on with the sewer lines here?
Sure. I I think Mr. Kabala's much he stated this before, you have capacity. You have the existing infrastructure and capacity. to to take the water and to take ride water and take the sewer from this project. We have to extend a line, a sewer line and water lines to this property at the developers cost. There was some confusion that the county would have to pay. I did not I just wanted to clear it up. Their policy is and they do it really well policy is to have developers pay To extend their infrastructure as opposed to the putting it
on the county. And this is a really good example of of how that policy in motion works. And you can do that when you have density. And quite frankly, when when a lot of the correspondence that I saw from the residents was make this a low density project, like us on Well and Septic and Yeah, we can't do that anymore in Pasco County. Your your policies are against that and when any client asks me about that I'm like no we don't do that in Pasco County. Um so and
I would say it's bizarre that we have a community college. That's right. They had to go through the back and go through that neighborhood to get on. County? County uh facilities. We have a major manufacturer, defense contractor there. What are they? Are they on septic?
Yeah. Well we will make it old school.
We will better that
situation? I find it an improvement that we're bringing some infr infrastructure like this down Ridge Road and Frankly, we'll we'll we should talk about this again one day. I brought this up to Mr. Karbala. In my opinion, when we're building a road I wish we could put the infrastructure in and then have the developer space back. Because I think it's dumb to build a road then come back and tear it up. Um I think.
And then have us have 'em pay us back, it'd be better for everybody. So Um let me see if I have any other questions for you. Well there were a lot of real estate Um discussions here of loss of value. And I I'll just let you all know. I called three brokers to ask if they thought An apartment complex on Ridge Road here would have any effect on any homes in the surrounding area? And they say absolutely not. And I and I
I look at um uh Foxwood in Trinity when Ducks Lou, the apartments at Dux Lou came in. And no no impact at all. Sean Foster lived there. And he said there was absolutely n no impact and the values have gone up. So Yeah. And that's even closer than what this is to some of the residents. So I just just wanted you to know that I did talk to professional Brokers from three different
agencies who who gave me that opinion.
I have met.
Mr. Mariano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Barbara, would you put up slide? That you have uncom Compatible or the pa pass the twenty twenty five comprehensive plan. Exit exit. Is it a table? Exhibit two point two, yeah.
Did I do that?
Is it this a table, Commissioner? Yeah. No it is, okay. Is that a N S? It it is, yep.
Uh exhibit Two point two, it's the twenty twenty five. Comprehensive pan of Plan of Casco County.
I'll just try to tell you what page.
It's right before our concept plan.
There you go. Thank you.
Now even with my readers, I couldn't read this, so I had my assistant blow it
up. That
tells
you how I can read it.
There you go. So when we look at um The the densities from r res one. All the way down. You've got to move up five categories to get to This density that's being set up. And what it says on there it it it put an asterisk where it could be. Can be compatible transitional use with sensitive site such as transitioning lot sizes.
Limited building heights. Architectural controls, limited hours of operation, limiting adjacent uses, passive, unobtrusive uses, may require an MPUD or CPD zoning to address these issues. Public use compatible varies greatly with proposed uses. Because public uses support neighborhoods, these uses are appropriate near residential areas through special buffering may be required. No When it gets to the transitioning as
far as lot sizes, there's no transition here. These are just small, tight apartments that are just Put in. Uh sufficient buffers. I mean If your height's going to be so much of a height, I mean how high does the fence gonna be, the walls gotta be, so it doesn't block someone's view and the privacy that they've got in the backyard. uh limiting building heights. Uh I don't see any limit on the on the on the heights here. When I when I look at that, I I go back to what and I'm gonna bring Terry to because I had him ask this question
while some of the questions are being asked. I said, Someone made reference that this was a different land use earlier. Like an agricultural. And you told me back in nineteen seventy-nine this lot was a state residential. Now if you're not going to be able to this was still a state residential, this would not be compatible, correct?
Well I I think uh Mr. Zodian had pointed out that the future land use is uh original to the comprehensive plan, so the Res One Uh What we had what we had identified was that the original zoning district was a state residential.
Okay.
Which carries with it the capability to do various agricultural use uses that are Uh particular to the property, so priv for private purposes.
Was that cons would that be considered f so so so the zon you're telling me the land use didn't change, just the zoning changed?
Uh correct. The zoning changed in nineteen eighty nine, I believe.
Uh so the so Landis was still res one, that didn't change. Yes. And still even with that. zoning you wouldn't consider this to be a rural area.
Today. No, back in nineteen seventy-nine, would this be considered a rural area if it had that zoning in place? That would matter to what we're talking about here today.
I don't know that I can answer what the rural designations were in 1979.
Okay. So when I look to the chart chart that Mr. Harrison showed, there was like two sets of res one. One was rural, one was not. And if this was a state residential, would not that be rural? And should we not be treating this as a rural area?
Yes. So uh what I would say is that the res when the comprehensive plan was updated to include the various Northeast Rural provisions, Res One uh was also touched at that time to specifically reference the northeast rural area as the rural area for uh being referred to in res one because it it has that note in the a in uh section A6 of the future land use appendix.
But you are talking n northeast rural. I am just talking about this area, whether it would be considered that residential rural area or the residential Higher density area, yes.
Right, but the the rural area that is being referenced in the Res One definition in the ASICs appendix is specific to northeast rural area. And uh it would not apply in this case because it's not the northeast rural and also this is the urban concentration area, urban service area. So the two different areas.
All right. So expla uh tell me what you think as far as you know, why didn't we put a force main in or why didn't we put a sewer s sewer line in if we wanted to make this Higher higher residential. Densities. Why wouldn't we have done
that?
Mm.
The utility typically does not speculate when it puts in Utility lines that's driven by development and as Ms. Willheid said, we we put the burden on the developer to to install those lines.
We we need to fix that.
Yeah. So
I'm gonna bring up well actually when wood when she's done I can talk about other stuff. Ms. Darkey?
No, I noticed that. I think those were I mean I have comments for us. But can you picture put the picture up what of your rendering of it? Because it shows the
No, you had a picture of the way at the beginning. I don't think it was in that presentation. If if
you go to the beginning it's got a picture. Yeah.
Oh yeah, that's the cover.
So just to go back to I guess we can touch on the crying thing too. So what are the rules
criminal activity and residence.
Yeah. Criminal background checks. And if they're convicted of a felony or if convicted of a crime, then that's gives it eligible to uh victim.
Mr. Chairman Mariano
Oh,
is
this
the way
that I'm not going to be able to do that?
I'm going
to
tell that commissioner what I told this commissioner. You're you're now into the details of the rezoning.
Okay, I just wanted the residents to understand that part a bit. We need to finish. Oh well I did have a question on the Bert Harris. And the airport. I mean just and Mr. Laporte's an attorney. I'm not. Um she's an attorney, but I d and I do know You know, I think that's a good thing. You have to be careful when the um property rights of one group affects the property rights of another. For example,
When we were developing Longleaf years ago. The homes that are in the right-of-way. were bordering in Fairway Springs a long longleaf came here and said Do not let them rezone because we want to look at the pastures and we bought this house to look at the pastures. So Um you know, that would have been a real Bert Harris, I think a a real infringement on our property rights and and if the If this is not in the airport Zoom. Um
I mean I d the actions of the of the y those using the planes Can't They can't just go willy nilly and and take away the property rights of other people with unless it's you know, it shows a problem and this is out of the problem. So I think that If you based your decision on that, that would be kind of a Bert Harris thing, I think.
I agree
with that.
I know I
didn't say that one
more time.
it's a public use airport, then we think these regulations are appropriate because you gotta balance those property rights. And so but we've shown that even if it was a public use airport, we're not in any of those protection areas and none of those protection areas would none of those provisions in the statute would preclude this project. So
Mr. Chairman Mariano I will tell you though, you're again, you are in a comprehensive plan amendment hearing and this is and and so I'm not sure that Bert Harris would even apply in the current context that we're talking about.
Okay.
Okay. Thank you.
Mr.
Chairman. So basically today we are changing the future land use from Res One to a Plan development. And that doesn't mean anything specifically is going on there. Right now we're just changing
Well you're land use. You're transmitting to the state that you wish to change the land use from
But they also presented we have been presented what project it is though.
Oh yeah. And that will also be back before you as a separate hearing. Yeah, I know. I'm just saying. And then we'll come again. So what's the pressure the more we're
championship? So oh okay. Well,
we'll have more discussion, so I thought we were gonna talk a little bit more. Okay.
All right. When we look at and we heard the conversations about uh The downwind flight. And then this is for the the county attorney. Is that something that's relevant to be considering? as we look at doing this comprehensive plan amendment. Is that something we can consider that has relevance? Mr. County Attorney.
What is relevant is that there is an airport proximate to this piece of property that you are changing the future land use classification. Ultimately this all becomes a is the Is the change from Res One to P D Consistent with your comprehensive plan and compatible with the development that you've already put in place in this area.
The term spot zoning came up. Is that inappropriate to think about that term?
Like
Again It's more
You've got a future land
If we were dealing with the numbered future land use classification, so if you've got res1 and you're going to put res 24 next to it, Is is that and appropriate. Comprehensive plan designation Directly adjacent to one another. This is P D, which is a little different, which means it can be Anything in the grade of From one two twenty four. But that's what you're uh basically
what the board has to come to grips with is You're changing your plan. that will allow future development is the new change Compatible and consistent with what you've already permitted and is out on the land and is the trend for this area.
Okay. So I can so I can consider all these one, two acre lots, all res one around it, and compare it compare it to do I think it's appropriate to allow something as strong as a res twenty-four, even though it's a P D to come forward. I can use that in my judgment.
I If you th yes, I think you I think you can consider that in in when
I when I look at some
in your evaluation of whether this is an appropriate category to change to.
When I look at a road like Tanglewood Drive, that's a a road that backs up as we heard for forty minutes, fifty minutes a day, per actually twice a day, both coming in and coming out. And Even sidewalks putting in there, which would be a whole nother challenge all the way through to put the sidewalks in for the kids to come back and forth for all the new traffic coming up and down, the fact b the fact there's no lights in the roadway. I mean I don't want to see a situation where we went through, I'll say ten years ago at Hicks Road where You know, s some s
some person uh a young child got hit because there was no sidewalk. And the same thing happened Seven Springs where No sidewalk there. For this to go in, even if we put the sidewalk in and made it safer, even if we put the lights in, you're still gonna have situations like we have at Fox Hollow right now with the undulations on Fox Hollow, and you've heard this gentleman come at least twice to speak to us. where because these roadways and water puddles up, you can have kids walking on that sidewalk. And they still gotta walk in the water and they still gotta come on the driveway because of the dips in the road. So There's
a lot of things to consider and I think we got a lot of flexibility here to look at.
Well, I'll do that. That wasn't really a question. Jerry? Uh
no sir. Just a point of clarification on the density. Um by my calculation at two hundred and thirty units, you know, divided by the gross area. Of twenty point three five acres, it's about eleven dwelling units per acre.
Did you factor out the wetlands?
I I was looking at the gross acreage. Did you
factor out what the wetlands might have been if eight instead of four?
Yes.
It's still in that category, Rose twenty-four.
I won't To clarify, I looked it up. Cypress Elementary gets out at four oh eight. So if they're still there at four twenty and four thirty, that's twelve to twenty two minutes. That's not an hour.
Hmm yeah. We can't talk from the
Well if anyone else wants to look it up.
That was a pleasure of the board.
Well um I'll I'll go next. Um Well, yeah I guess I look at this a little differently. Um I don't see it as um embedded in Tanglewood. It's it's to me it's on Ridge Road, a road we've spent a lot of money. to widen and that's going to be a major road in this county just like 54 and 52. Uh so If this were inside Tanglewood,
I would have a very different opinion of this project, but it's not. It's on Ridge Road. Um It is s what does this say, six hundred feet from a community college? So if we were to come build that community college today, would that be compatible in the neighborhood or we'd say no you can't build a college next to my one acre lot. So I to me having apartments Six hundred and thirty-three feet from a community college makes a lot of sense, although I don't know many students
who are gonna be able to afford sixty have a income of sixty thousand a year. Um, but maybe some maybe if we're lucky some of our teachers can s live there. Could you put my photos up please? Um I've you know, I we've been having discussions here on the board about apartments. Um I think when I met with some of the applicants, they actually showed me a map of of where this apartment complex was. And the closest apartment complex to it, I think, is the one behind the mall. The
ni you know, a class A? I don't know. I don't know if you can answer that question. Where is the closest class A apartment complex to this one? I I I would like that answer.
They they know because they did a they did a a class A is a luxury apartment complex with deed restrictions and requirements for tenants. Darkee Ranch. Starkey Ranch, Valeris. So um we've been going around, my staff and I, looking at who lives in a in these new apartment complexes that are coming up. It's your deputies. It's your teachers. We I I asked the school district today how many new employees Do you guys have in the last year? A
hundred one no one thousand four hundred and thirty-seven new employees. They have two hundred and six vacancies. I can tell you. And maybe some of you know this because this is a great time to sell your house. But you cannot sell your house unless you excuse me. If some people want to sell their homes now because the values have gone up. Um and I can tell you that You can't sell your house unless you have a place lined up to
live. And you can't find anything. Our own fire chief Sold his house. And couldn't could not could not find a place to live. Our uh A friend of ours who's chair of our of a party that many of us are involved in. Called me up and asked me to help him find a place to live because he's selling his house. He's downsizing, his kids have gone to college. He cannot find a place to move into. So There is a demand for multifamily. Um
this is on a major road. Um And I think uh I but I I am gonna say this. I do think That Tanglewood And the nature of Tanglewood. As the county fills in. Uh and we're gonna fill in. Ridge Road is gonna is uh when I talked to the brokers today they told me the land values on Ridge Road are skyrocketing. because when that opens to the Suncoast end of forty one, that's gonna be a really attractive
quarter. And frankly, all of you all in Tanglewood are gonna see a massive escalation of the value of your property. Because it's not very common to find those large lots Inside an area So close to you know, suburban the suburban area like what you have. So you will see massive valuations. But I I am concerned about Tanglewood as we infill, you know, the property on Little Road is gonna come
in soon. to get developed. Um the d property on Decubelus will be coming in. And I do think we need to consider changing the nature of Tanglewood to a a collector. And I I think it's gonna need a sidewalk. I I'm concerned. about kids and a school on a road like Tanglewood that doesn't have a sidewalk. And so if the county, if that road becomes a collector road, the county maintains it. And I think we should put the sidewalk in. And
perhaps with the um impact fee that are generated from this project and maybe taxes that are going to be generated, we can We we can get that on the list and get, you know, it probably we have a scoring system for sidewalks, but I could see Tanglewood being a good a a a good project for the county to put a sidewalk on on one side for the safety and lights. Now There are lights that can be put on a road that Um
save save the night sky. They shine down. They don't take away actually that's the rules in the county, but you can st you can still have lights on your road to make it safe. Uh but um Don't take away that feel that I I know w a lot of you want when you live out in in an area like yours. So Um let's see if I had anything else here. So these are some pictures from some of the uh Apartment complexes around the area, and I just it was fascinating to us. Actually, our fire chief
told me about this. That a lot of the people who are living in these complexes are our deputies and our teachers. The the apartment complex at Sun Lake, you have a high school, a middle school, and a and a uh a charter school there. It's filled with teachers. So I I I don't look at these as crime ridden um places, but I I look at them as As places where our s our citizens need to live. And if we don't have places like this, then w then the
ones that are there now. I can tell you when when because we have such a demand and such little supply For the business people here. What happens? Well when when those teachers lease comes up next year They're gonna have a massive rental increase and where are they gonna live? They're gonna be priced out. I I'm for this project. I'm for fi helping you with tanglewood to make sure it's a safe road. I think it's gonna end up being a collector road and the county
takes it over. And and that's where I am.
Yeah, Mr. Chairman Mariano just two just a couple of things. Um And I appreciate the comments from all the other commissioners. Um I you know my feeling in general, not saying a specific specific project because we don't know again what's gonna go on here, but when it comes to the statement of apartments in general, I don't feel we have a huge need in Pasco County because there's so many going up and there's four leasing signs four lease signs out from every single one of them. So I do not feel in general
if we're gonna talk about apartments. that there's some huge need out there because of how many vacancies they are. Um And that's just a fact. There's tons of vacancies in a lot of these departments. Well there is, because I do my homework, and I do my due diligence and I do my studying, and I've said on many occasions and I've and I've shown the proof. Um but that's on that subject matter, but again, we're not taking that into consideration here. Yo. Previous, you know, when I I looked at this, um
there weren't as many concerns until I heard about the airport. So I still have that concern and I talked about it with with the applicant. I talked about it with um some of the citizens and Mr. Laporte and some of the other people I talked to. Um I'll be honest with you and when I first heard about this project many, many, many months ago, I wasn't aware there was a an airport next to it. I just wasn't. I was not aware of it until some of the citizens reached out to me and spoke to me and Mr. Laporte reached out and spoke to me. I was not aware of that situation. So um and then I did watch the the Planning
Commission meeting um uh as well and saw some of the testimony from um Mr. Laporte and some of the others in reference to the airport. So, you know, I
Mm.
The The airport's a difficult one for me. Um
You know, that's already there. That airport is there. It's been there for a long time. Um, I think um some people testified they've flown out of the airport for maybe forty plus years. Um so the last thing I would ever want to do is take away somebody's opportunity that's been there for many, many years. Um, you know, I I look at it, you know, where's it where's my right, where's my ability to say We're going to take that away from you. So if there's a fear at all that people will not be able to
utilize the airport anymore, I I have a difficult time with that, honestly.
Well they say that.
I'm talking I'm talking. Thank you. Rub done now.
And I did meet with the citizens. I met with at the community meetings and everything and I understand their concerns.
I can understand wh where they're coming from with their concerns. I also feel that a lot of these concerns can be addressed and we can fix some of these concerns such as the school traffic and things like that. I have done a lot of research, whether on the crime rates and looking where law enforcement and teachers do live. Some of them they work so much they don't have time to do their landscape and everything else, so they live in and choose to live in an apartment. If
we take that away they're not gonna have places to live. Um
But again the traffic is a concern to me, the students being able to get to and from school.
But there's a lot of incentives. They would be bringing in three hundred thousand dollars the school year annually in taxes. So that would be very beneficial to the school. it can help with a lot of infrastructures as well. So I think it's beneficial.
Mr. Mariano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman
Mariano Commissioner Weightman you brought up a couple of things about vacancy with apartments. Um I can tell you firsthand I had a friend of mine. was in a very nice house, uh had some trouble with homeless people, moved out to the side, moved up to the apartments. At Gulf Your Mall. Um After one day their reasons I can't live here.
they are charging him a per day rent because until they rent out his facility Uh they're not gonna let them out of the lease. Even after knowing just a in a day. Uh my daughter's downtown New Port Richey You know, God bless him. He's he's he's gonna be going to law school, he's gonna be getting out, but he can't get out of that either. So As far as vacancies go, the Gulf Yumall, just so we know. They have room to go put like two, three more sets of buildings on there. And I think if they were a full out they'd
be Probably in the process of going to do that now. So I I I don't see the huge demand for it. Um but I am I'm worried about the quality of life that these writers have bought, invested in, their lives in. I mean just that they have bought into this community the way it's set up. And I think that What we're gonna do right now, you can't fix that road, Tanglewood. We can make it a collector you want, that saves some money. To put in a sidewalk in and they got in for quietness. They didn't want lights going all the way down either. But between that and the traffic
and I'm and I'm telling you w with Fox Hollow, think about this, the dips in the road When that road dips down and it has to a kid has to walk to school, if they're gonna walk to school, and some of them do I'm sure, or or bike ride, th even if they could go on the sidewalk that that if it did get built, if it goes underwater, they're still out in the roadway anyway. And as far as I'm gonna go by the residence word that it's a fifty minute hold up? Twice a day on that roadway. And we know it's not going to get worse because you're going to add eighty trips a day by just the calculations just at coming in. So it's only going to get worse. Either
way we'll look at it. I mean let's face it, when this comes back to us again. When you get res twenty four. And I'm not sure what the zoning is as far as the other things around it, but if there are one If that's the zoning of those categories? And that comes in for a zoning after that? I mean you you could say you're doing spot zoning down the road. I mean it's not just not a a simple issue.
So on the on the traffic on Tanglewood, I to me eighty cars Um during a twenty-four hour period is not is negligible. Um But what regardless of so so if we don't if we this doesn't go through and something else comes there Um it's been shown and I think we could ask the traffic expert, a commercial office generates more traffic. Um and it would be specific traffic, people going to that probably building
specifically, I think, but more traffic on Tanglewood. I don't think this project is gonna degrade the the the trap the quality of life for people on Tanglewood this project. I do think That the as we put more development around just went cumulatively Tanglewood will see a lot more traffic. Um, just as another way to go. I mean it it is not an easy drive. It it's my husband cycles
it all the time. It's it's windy. And um and it's not a fast road. And it's a road yet you have to pay attention to. It's not so it I mean it's not like Little Road, but I'm I'm just saying in the future, I think we need to consider changing the classification of that road. Uh more people when they're going up to Ridge Road to go across, they're gonna take the cubulus.
But Um I just think So I I don't feel that eighty cars over ten, twelve hours a day. is that much. I I will say I I have been impacted by the school Trinity. I think it's Trinity Elementary on Duck Slough. You you know not to go down that road in the late afternoon. For about half an hour. You just you just take one of the other roads and so I think People may try that one time in an afternoon. Um but but if
you're gonna get stuck then um you're not gonna do that again at that time. However, I do agree that there's things the school district can do to move move that along quicker. I will and I've seen 'em do it.
Yeah. I will be meeting with the schools very soon to try to figure out a different traffic pattern to help address the traffic flow in that area. Whether multifamily comes in or not. At this point, Res One cha converting to a P D, I feel it does follow the future land use. You wanna make a motion?
I was like a di you can be in I'll make a motion to approve the staff's recommendation.
Let the district commissioner make a motion. Let her make make your motion. Make your motion. It's your district, you need to start making motions. Either deny or say yes. It's your district, and you gotta start doing this.
I make the motion to convert from Res One to a Plan Development.
And I I second that motion.
So your history
Chairman Mariano. So the motion would be to transmit The change from Res one to
have anything to do with multifamily.
Yeah.
Gotcha. All right. Yeah,
nice second.
I got a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye.
Aye.
Aye. Hm. I don't think it's roll call. It's not roll call for a transmitter. It's not roll call. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye.
All opposed? Nay? Okay. What did you say? Okay. Okay. I said nay. You said nay? Nay. Okay. Yes, too nice. Motion passed three to two.