PC10 Land Development Code amendment invasive vegetation
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What was said
Machine transcription of 1h 23m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 77% of 373 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Right, so the next item or the last item's PC ten.
Roberto, you have this one?
All right. Good afternoon, Chair and Commissioners. Roberto Becerri. Um Development review department? Thank you. Everything got reorganized or
still working
on that. Still working on that.
Uh today we are presenting to you uh uh uh Soning Amendment.
Uh an ordinance by the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners amending the Pasco County Land Development Code. To address invasive vegetation and amending Sections four oh three point one point two
let me stop here you don't need to read the whole title of Planning Commission. Oh you do have the board but not a planning commission. So we're uh here to
massive vegetation. I was gonna ask you if you needed some water, but you're good.
Thank you, David. That saved that saved you some time. It's the weed amendment.
Um so this is amendment number forty nine and the proposed amendments were uh Uh prev preview by the Interest Department on March twenty eighth and also by I presented the horizontal round table. On April seventeenth. And the invasive vegetation uh removal. We are amending quite a few sections of the code. Most of them are relying on the construction element and anticipation of
any construction of those, for example Uh PDP is preliminary development. Plat residentials the non residentials, the uh preliminary site plans, uh basically these sections are amended to require that applic applicants for the for these approvals must include We only have a tip here. An invasive vegetation management plan and management in perpetuity. Uh
this amendment also adds that invasion invasive vegetation requirements contain uh on the county's targeted invasion species list found on the development review manual and these are based on the Florida Invasive Species Council. We're gonna refer that to uh Fisk, so I'm gonna still try to remember that. Uh and this is a list that holds about a hundred and seventy five species. Uh and this list they have two types, which are the category
one and categories twos. The category ones are the ones that are more aggressive. The category twos are are not as aggressive as the ones And sometimes the fisk or or that group they they um Not sometimes. They evaluate it and sometimes they move 'em from the category one to the category two or from the category two to the category one. And sometimes they even eliminate some of these invasive species. So um But we're gonna base this
amendment with the development review manual The they also include an invasive management plan requiring removal of invasive vegetation, BMPs. providing uh for the appropriate method of disposal to prevent propagation and ongoing maintenance and monitoring controls of invasive species. No all the invasive plants can be eliminated the same manner. Some of them can be mechanically uh removed, some of them can be trimmed, some of them can be burned. And so they
they cannot. They cannot be trimmed, they cannot be they had to they have to be different methods of removal. But all those are also gonna be included in the development review manual. So the invasive vegetation management plan shall also be managed in perpetuity by the HOA, the CDD, the property the property owner. or the emplo applicable entity or assigned responsible party. So with that in mind, we are amending sections uh four or three
point one again like I said the preliminary development plan uh residentials Section four hundred three, the preliminary development plan, non-residential, mixed use. Section four oh three the preliminary site plans Um and these are new subsections that we're including. Uh section four or three point four of stormwater management. four or three point five the construction plans. Again these are new sections that we're including. Uh section four three field. On this one we need to be also careful
that the field that is brought in that uh does not uh have some of these uh seeds or is not contaminated with any of these invasive species rhizomas or any other elements. So that's pretty much the intent of this one. It's also a new subsection. Uh mass grading. Uh section four or three point seven. Uh four or three point ten landscape. And then also we're going to amend the operating permit sections, which is four oh one point three, which is a minor
land excavation. Four four point two, uh it's a land excavation operating permit. The mining pyramid on section four oh four point three. four oh four point four. uh construction demolition debris disposal facilities, operating permits. four or four point five lines spreading operating permits. four four point six. yard trash uh processing facilities. And also we're also doing the right-of-way use per minute for 06.4.
So as you see, the anything that has to do with dirt or soil movement. Uh we're we're we were trying to capture on all these sections. Uh some of these sections are already um Well I haven't got there yet. The uh garden plant permit we've seen is for session for uh for four oh six point eight. Uh section five oh three, which is the supplemental regulations. Yeah and Now we're also revising some of this language like
on the Overlay and special district areas, uh northeast Pasco rural protection areas, which was um Um kinda included some of these elements but we're revising it. Uh natural and cultural resources protection, uh section eight oh four four ecological corridors. Uh we're clarifying what uh some of these invasive species. And then uh on chapter
nine hundred, which is the development standards, we are Adding subsections on nine oh one point two the transportation corridor management. Oh nine oh three point Nine oh one point three.
Which is the access management. Uh nine oh one point four substandard broadway uh nine oh one point six the uh street design and education requirements. Uh nine oh one point six we're also adding language. And bicycle facilities nine one point seven. And pedestrian facilities, nine oh one point eight. I didn't use the subsections. And we're adding a new definition for invasive
vegetation or invasive plant species.
And We find the proposed uh ordinance uh amendment consistent with the comprehensive plan. And ask of you to recommend approval for the Board of County Commissioners.
I'm missing one second. And this uh amendment will go to the BCC on Um if you recommend approval it'll go to the uh BCC on June fourth for the first reading and then he'll go to June eighteenth for the adoption.
Any questions?
So when I met with you A little more than a week ago.
We talked about was it necessary to Include The submittal requirement For an invasive species evaluation. For applications which didn't necessarily authorize construction, substandard roadway. access management. And now I'm looking at preliminary development plan 'cause I just Pulled up in Municode that it says the print Yeah.
E under preliminary development plan effective approval a PDP authorizes developer to apply for stormwater management plan and report review, construction plan review, draft record plat review when no improvements are required. So I'm curious as why the need I understand why the Why the request when there was gonna be construction, but why the need if there's not construction authorized by the approval? I mean in a l a lot of times I
see Barbara sitting back there. She may be involved in a rezoning where we're looking at whether or not evaluating whether or not roads are substandard and shall have the traffic engineer apply for substandard road review. And they may determine a road substandard and needs to be approved, but that doesn't authorize the construction. You still have to prepare a construction plan for the improvements and acquire a right of way permit to do that. So I'm personally
hesitant to saddle an applicant at very early stages of a project. with this requirement. When they get to the construction phase I get it, I understand. I just I think maybe we're potentially creating an unnecessary burden in the early and planning stages of a project.
And Nicaragua correct me if I'm wrong. Or do you wanna go ahead? Uh we uh we did to uh we did take some of uh your your comments Yeah I
saw you did and I appreciate that. Thank you.
Um so You're you're right. It doesn't have to be startled until the construction piece comes along. Um And and I've I to my understanding there's really
No reason for not to bring the applicant to the understanding that this is what's expected of them.
Well, of course so one could issue a condition. make it a standard condition that you're going to submit. And we see that all the time. For instance, someone comes in and applies for an MPUD zoning and there'll be a standard condition that you'll have to come and do a one hundred percent gopher toward this survey. before you construct. but they don't have to do a one hundred percent gopher tourist survey to apply for a rezoning and so I question whether it's necessary that they go out and do an invasive species inventory
and then especially we haven't gotten to that part about what's required in the inventory, but that seems like a bit of an onerous burden on them. during the preliminary planning phases of a project. Again, the construction phases, I get it. It just seems that maybe We could eliminate it for the preliminary development plan, the access management. I understand if we want to put conditions. And I think in the access management you actually weren't making it a submittal requirement. It was a maintenance condition. I get that, that's fine. But
substandard road review. That doesn't actually authorize any construction.
That has been fixed for your request. I don't know if maybe it's not in this draft. I'm scrolling through it right now trying to find it because I actually made that edit myself. Um and I don't see a red line version of this.
It's down at the it's at the bottom of the agenda memo, Elizabeth. It's at the end.
It's in the memo itself.
So under sub it says 901.4 Substandard Roadway Analysis and Mitigation, e Submittal Information, 8, and then
Then it says if determined that roadway deficiencies are required to be corrected, compliance with this subsection shall be required, identify all invasive vegetation, da da da da da da da da. But we talked about construction, so I thought I took care of it. You know, you they ha still have to get a right away permit to do any substandard roadway mitigation, so that would be something you would do for the right of way permit.
I don't care where it is, if it's in substandard and right-of-way or just right-of-way as long as the situation is captured right that I don't think
my concern is I just hate to see burdening Burdening an applicant in a planning phase of a project in the early phases with doing something that's more applicable at time of construction.
And then if I may, so I know I I met with y'all and I I appreciate the information. I still had a couple questions and just so you all know what I brought up. I mean it's one thing if we're developing uh like a twenty acre school site and Clearing the whole thing and building the school. gave to staff was our Cypress Creek. Campus. We have a middle school, high school.
We have over two hundred acres of wetlands.
And we we built the high school first. My concern is probably along your Maybe some of you are thinking too. is the way this reads. And I know y'all told me it's confined within the project area, but that's My concern is if I'm going out and developing Out of a hundred and fifty acres I'm developing Fifty acres.
The way I you know, and I'm constructing the high school, the way I read it is I'm I'm required to Look at all of the uplands. Even though I know you guys said,
but it says that I'm to look at anything lo all those all located on the uplands. So to me when I read that that's my entire property. And and my concern is having to How much money am I gonna have to spend to do all the uplands? And then it says
Those portions of wetlands where impacts are authorized. So let's say I impact uh an acre of that two hundred Mm. those two hundred acres of wetlands. I know you said it was only focused on the project area, but I'm afraid that ten years from now somebody else is gonna interpret that to mean the entire two hundred acres of wetlands. And then I think about what kind of cost is that. And again, I don't I don't I'm not against trying to get rid of invasive species, but I sit there and think how
much it's gonna cost me to send people out in two hundred acres of wetlands and come up with a management i if I'm not really impacting that much. So that was one of my questions. And I know y and I know we've talked about it, but I'm I'm just letting you know I'm still a little concerned with the language of that and how it might be interpreted later on. Where was this Chris I think it's uh pretty much all the same. I'm looking at Nine oh I I just pulled one from nine oh one point
six oh okay D where it says um identify all invasive vegetation dot dot dot located on the uplands and within those portions of wetlands where impacts are authorized. And so if I'm op if I'm impacting one acre of that two hundred wetlands, I I see it could be interpreted both ways. And that's my that's one of my concerns. And then the other thing you guys uh I know you uh It's
been mentioned a little bit. But again part of my concern was the cost on this fill. And I as my engineer he didn't really know having and I was hoping maybe some of you engineers could fill it in. So if I if we're building a school and Yeah, like L Land O' Lakes. The K eight we're building. We just had to bring in three million dollars worth of film. Uh is that normally tested for invasive species or or or how much more would would and again if you're putting a building over the top of it versus
those are some I'm concerned about costs. I
was going to ask that was gonna be one of my Next questions about the fill. Right. Because there's a condition that your fill can't contain any seeds. Right. I've been doing this 30 years. I know of no soil test that is going to be able to go through and identify. if there are seeds from of some invasive exotic or nuisance species, or seeds from anything else for that matter, uh just
period the end, uh
Where does one I don't know how much I'm sure you guys are not I have to deal with this every day. But you don't go out and buy dirt. When I go out and buy dirt, I'm buying you know, clean fill. Right. There's nobody's inspecting this for noxious weed seeds. And I don't know of any way for them to do that. I mean I I'd s I guess I could send it to some lab at some university and pay him a couple of hundred thousand dollars and they could do that. I understand your intent.
Yes. I'm just not sure that the requirement itself is practical.
Well can I ask a follow up question Wouldn't the if you're requiring an invasive species management plan on that same property where the fill's brought in Wouldn't that require them to basically get rid of any invasive species that grow out of those seeds anyway? So If the property owner is already obligated to basically Stop the growth. of the invasive species, if it does if the seed does manifest itself, why do you need to worry so much about the seeds?
I I've got a question about that, David,
though, and maybe Brian can help me here. I mean, you can bring Phil into a project separate and apart from developing it for some purpose. So that so there was no other, you know, site plan beans move or something, right? I mean, I could be stupid on this none of those facts, but at that situation had it independently of any other kind of planning. being done, you would want to catch that because there's no then trigger to go clean it up.
Well, okay, so did we amend the fill permit section to anyone? I'm not
sure. I just I've only seen what
sections
I've been in check.
One needs to get a fill permit in order to fill. Right. All right. If that's all you're doing is filling. and then there's a fine line between what becomes a mass grading permit and a preliminary development plan and a fill permit and that's kind of at the discretion of the staff. Um Right. I mean I can assure you I'll give you PAW's number and you can call them and they're not going to be able to tell you whether
there are any noxious weed seeds in their fill dirt. that they just bought off my site.
Well but I guess the question really require to your point, Elizabeth. Is there a way to do that? trigger the invasive species management plan Once you bring the fill in.
If that's what that section was doing I thought. I thought that was independent of any other application we requested.
I don't think that's the way it reads though. And I and I should have brought this up when we met last week, but it it doesn't read that way to me.
And to John's point there is, you know, clean fill is kinda chemically clean fill. There is no
Right. This just says fill material shall be free of seeds and viable parts of invasive plant species declared by the current Fisk invasive plant list. There's no Way No known way or known practical way to do that.
And if you're to to screen that fill material down to that level to try to get those seeds out of him, the cost I think to
go through the number two
hundreds.
Well that's why I asked is there weights
to to instead of putting that provision in
million dollars of fill and it's gonna be four million, but
just require the just require the invasive species management plan as a condition of the fill permit.
So, one of the things, David, we discussed when I met with them, all right, and what I would tell you in general.
And I said there's a fine line between a mass grading permit, a preliminary development plan, and a fill permit. Fill permit is David Goldstein has a low spot in David's backyard that holds water that he doesn't like it and he needs to put more than five yards of dirt in there to fill it and he comes in Down at the building department and applies for a fill permit. It gets routed through Brad's department.
I wanna go take down a twelve foot hill to bu build a future boat and RV storage, that's a mass grading permit or a preliminary development plan. The point being Phil permits are generally mom and pop permits. And do we want to s one of the things that I was insistent about when I met with staff is that we make some kind of exemption for the little guy in here because To prepare one of the plans as proposed, the invasive species inventory
and then management plan. is an unreasonable financial burden on most homeowners. in this county. Let alone them being able to even find the professional to do it. And I know that just from the world of things like You know, you got they require a grading plan for a swimming pool. Do you know how many people call my office crying that they've called every engineer in town and nobody'll take their job to prepare the grading plan? Well this is gonna s be the same thing.
There's a limited pool of Biologists and environmental scientists out there, and they're not gonna come out and prepare this massive plan, especially in the detail that's specified. later on in this thing. to that you know, mom and pop can't afford that.
It actually is not that hard. As a landscape architect I see many other projects and maybe not in this state. where the engineer actually does the specs. And as they're doing the clean feel. You know, most of the plants they grow on the top layers, and most of the field comes down from the bottom layers. The bottom layers doesn't have a lot of these seeds, they have a lot of these rhizomas. So it can be those some of those elements that you know we're talking about that can be incorporated in the Development
review manual.
Yeah. Roberto, just from my from my perspective
and just again. Yeah,
go ahead, sorry. I thought you were done.
And so um in addition to the field permit, the field permit is not necessarily only for filling up your backyard, but it also has other elements like the floodplain element. That you're gonna ensure that it doesn't do all that. So there's a lot of more review that goes into the mining, into the field permits. So With those things in mind, I think that The elements on the development review manual. can address what you're talking about.
You know, we just I'll give you an example.
Just before being a appointed to this seat, I was working on the floodplain management ordinance. And one of the things that's included in our floodplain management ordinance is that if you're in zone V, is to do a wave run up analysis. And I s
harped and hemmed and hawed back then. that you can put this in the ordinance, but there's nobody around here that knows how to do a wave run-up analysis.
And there still isn't. And I was just involved with One where the Applicant. Rather well known applicant. on her property got a proposal for forty thousand dollars to do a wave run up analysis for her seawall.
That's what I see happening here. That is not a reasonable burden to put on the average citizen. I understand when we're talking about the big developers. you know, the Lenars and the D. R. Hortons and the K B. Holmes of the world, they can probably absorb some of these costs. But think about what would happen if I all of a sudden saddled you with that burden for something that you you needed to do.
Well a landscaper can do all this analysis and as they're drawing down dirt they can see that there's no rhizomas, there's no see this clean feel. Uh you don't need to be able to do that.
I'm I'm an avid gardener. Okay. I have a garden. and a rhizome that is the most miserable. I have two rhizomes in my garden And most people have 'em in their yard. that are the most miserable things to deal with, are pennywort, dollar weed, and nuts edge. And you can go pull nuts edge and if a piece this long is left in the ground, that will grow back. And I have dug and dug and dug and dug and burned. You should see I have this flamethrower
at home to try to burn out nuts. You can't. You can I can burn the the green part off the top, but if any of that rhizome is left in that soil, it's right back a week later. I mean and you can't. I can s dig up in that sand and you can't see every little piece of rhizome. That's an impossibility. That's not practical.
Yeah.
Yeah, I
I w I was just gonna say, I mean I I understand the intent of the ordinance and where things are trying to go and the direction you guys have been given. I just How how does this get enforced? How does it I mean th just the reporting, I I how how many of these applications did the development review department get this year?
Whatever that number is, multiply it by two because that's how many different reports you're gonna get over the next year for all these studies that are gonna come in because they're required every six months. I mean the amount of reporting, the amount of burden you're putting on the applicant I mean, I To me this just seems like it's way over and above what what the intent is of of the direction you guys have been
given.
And I think I told you when I met with you. If you get a plan from two G H Solutions and we've got a clearing plan or a demolition plan, there's a note. on every one of our plans and it's not necessarily required by county, but it's our standard practice. You're gonna remove any exotic and nuisance species, right? That's that's a common thing and I would tell you that Pinellas County requires that and Hillsboro County requires that. And the applicants generally do that. I've got a site right now that's under construction that was
probably covered ninety percent in Colgan grass. before we Cleared it. And I would also tell you that just by clearing and grubbing and the construction activity that that cognass is gone. And after we paved the place it ain't coming back. But I think a lot of this i it's interesting because the construction activity itself, when we're clearing and grubbing a site, We're gonna strip off the f top six inches. of
soil anyways, that's where that rhizome is and you know I was looking at Cogan grass management plans when in doing research for this ordinance. And they'll recommend disking the soils at least six inches deep. Well that's a standard practice. We strip the top six inches off anyways. Does that mean Kogan grass can't grow back or won't grow back? No. But at the end of the day it's a lot less of a problem after the development than it probably was before the development. But
I I'm with Jamie. I mean the reporting requirement that's proposed at the end of this memo Who's gonna do all that? You guys are gonna have to create a separate department just to receive review and File and you know, and I deal with this with the water management district. When you build a stormwater pond It comes with a condition that you've gotta get a professional engineer to come inspect this pond every two years if it's a wet pond with a filter or every five years if it's a dry pond and I would tell you in the old
days it just just used to be a standard every two years. Well the district can't even keep up. It's issued so many thousands of permits over its history. that it cannot possibly keep up With these engineer inspections every two years. I get people calling me, they're all freaked out because they got a letter from the water management district. that their inspection is due and they're gonna get in trouble if they don't get the inspection in by the deadline and we just sit there and laugh and like you cannot do this for the next ten years and you're never gonna hear from 'em 'cause
they got ten thousand others just like you in a stack. And that's what's gonna happen to you.
So we're going to what
kinds.
Lisa Yeah? So I had a question for Jack.
What
is the purpose of the reporting? Because If it's an enforcement tool Couldn't you just I mean
You can see them with the naked eye, right? As long as they grow. So why couldn't it be enforced like any other Land Development Code requirement that if They're If you actually see invasives growing, they've overtaken the site or whatever. And then you call out code, they cite them for violating the management plan. What is the benefit of all the reporting? Why not just Enforced like we would any other Land O'Mal Code provision.
David, the reporting requirement did not come from those of us here came from natural lands and they're the ones who are gonna be receiving the reports and doing the monitoring. They have a representative available that I think should probably be answering these questions.
And and just before he is before he uh he says anything, just uh the the good news is uh we're not adopting the reporting. That reporting is on the development review standards. We can be changed at any time.
I know
I understand that, but uh Although I do have one question about what you are adopting but as it relates to enforcement, but
Whose idea was it to do require reporting? Will that natural resources My question is why can't You just rely on our normal enforcement process.
Instead of requiring all this reporting. I understand that you can't answer but maybe somebody can.
So okay, there we go. I think he's unmuting himself. It's Matthew Hudson Hudson on the line.
Yes, hello Matthew Hudson from Natural Resources. How's it going? So Melissa Charbonneau, the natural resources manager, she's unable to be here today. But I can definitely take these questions to our app and we can get back to you.
Okay, so did you hear the questions, Matt?
I did. I have them all written down. Yeah, sir. So I have a somewhat related question which does go to what is being adopted, which is How is enforcement handled on a typical residential subdivision. In other words There's language at the beginning that says that The m the the plan is basically I'm gonna use the exact phrase that you all use.
We find it.
That it says that it has to be it says ongoing maintenance monitoring The the invasive management plan shall be managed and perpetuated by the HOA C D property owner, applicable entity, or assigned responsible party on those lands owned or directed to the controlled by the HOA C D property owner, etcetera. My question is on a typical residential subdivision If you see invasive species growing on a residential lot Are you citing the HOA or are you citing the Mod
owner.
This doesn't go to that kind of enforcement at all. Um The way that it's written. Is that it's for all new projects going forward. It's not retroactive. There's only no way to make it retroactive since it's applicable.
A new a brand new residential subject.
Not gonna have those contracts with the landscapers and so forth that all of our CDDs and HOAs have that not all of them, I'm not some have varying grades of talent in their in their consulting contracts. But that is going forward on those tracks that are then conveyed to the HOA or the CDD as an ongoing requirement of those entities that take ownership of that after the development developer is gone and done. Individual homeowners aren't included in this. at all. And one of the things he wanted to avoid happening was an HOA going rogue and going after homeowners that have antenna
in their planting beds or Lyroope would just now be an enlisted species, I guess.
Property. So
the language David just read.
Well, it's
kinda broad. I'm not sure I read
it
that narrowly. Me either. There's a declaration that gets recorded over the property and I make the as the presumption that this invasive management species plan is going to be applied over the property of which the individual lots are part of. Do you want to say
that the problem is it it says property owner in that list? which in my opinion could be construed to mean the lot owner.
Okay, we can fix that. Um could you put up the development um review manual guidelines for the
Attachment three.
Okay, thank you. Yeah, there's a provision there about this very thing. So let's take a look at that.
Well they're pulling that up. John on on like Swift Mud looking at retention bonds and stuff, does Swift Mud require looking at invasive species? Is that part of that inspection?
I would tell you that you were going to impact a wetland.
or you were going to enhance a buffer and that was part of your mitigation strategy or agreement with the district. that that would be a condition that you would remove These exotics. And invasives. And I would tell you that generally if one was creating wet most people don't create wetlands today. They'll go and buy credits in a mitigation bank. In the old days when you created wetlands. then they would have maintenance and
monitoring provisions that you'll go in and, you know, inspect this and keep the Brazilian pepper out and the you know, Peruvian primrose willow and that kind of thing.
So I think
that's a good thing.
Elizabeth, part of the issue is I think I know why you have that in there because there are probably some commercial sites that don't have an HOA C D so that the all the common areas are being maintained by the commercial lot owner. To me, if you if your intent is to not subject individual residential lots to this ongoing requirement, I think you just need to come out and say it. But individual residential lots are not subject to enforcement of this requirement
or whatever. I mean My other slight concern is if we're not going to be able to do The management plan might just say In theory you all c somebody could submit a management plan saying the individual residential lot owners are gr responsible for Controlling And that
probably needs to be clarified in what the requirements is for y you submitting that maintenance plan. And who you have to identify in a restrictive covenants or something something, who's going to be doing this after you, the developer, walks away, just like you do with your restrictive covenants.
But you're telling me the intent is only for common areas under the control of an HOA
Some other common maintenance entity. Yeah,
yeah, absolutely.
So Mr. Moody's owns a residential lot any subdivision and allows a bunch of invasive species to grow in his lot, nobody's in a Cite him, is that what you're telling me?
That that's the intent, because we do know that folks are planning things in their landscape beds that are invasive. We don't want homeowners going after each other and so forth. That's the wrong one guys. It's the other attachment.
Management playing guidelines.
That's it.
And the that section is fine.
Identify the successors and assigns if known. How would they be known?
Well typically on an M B U D we require common areas to They have to identify who the common meat and insanity is going to be. Um But to me this wasn't when I read it it wasn't clear that you were attempting to exempt individual residential lot owners. I don't see anything in there that clearly says that. And can it be made
clear that
The declaration A developer records a declaration over the entire property. Sometimes those declarations contain architectural restrictions, lawn maintenance restrictions, so on and so forth. that it is not a requirement that the declaration include this invasive species management plan. And what I'm concerned about is on the current proposed list. in the category
two species. I quickly checked today before I came in. I can go down to Home Depot and Lowe's right up. The road here and Queen Palms and Elephant Ears are on sale in the nursery today. As is Lantana. Yes, as is Lantana. Which we had a lengthy discussion about.
Well, David, that's an easy fix. I mean, we can simply say it doesn't apply to residential lots, whatever. I mean, in the whole thing, like I said, this is application-driven, the individual property owner is the one who's not applying for the management plan. So the idea was that if you were having to do this step, then it's your responsibility going forward. But I can see how there could be confusion as to whether that's the right-of-way.
Right.
Why not?
Do we need to take
uh
public?
Yeah, is there any other questions for Roberto or the other? I know this
um the category two species.
Why are we listing category two species when it your eva your own document Says
These species.
These have increased in abundance or frequency, but have not yet altered Florida plant communities to the extent shown by Category One species. These species may become category one if ecological damage is demonstrated. So why if there's been no ecological damage demonstrated Why are we after these things today? And I'd look at this just a simple analogy. This is basically saying these species
may become a problem. Well, your dog may bite somebody, but that doesn't mean we put your dog down today. And so I don't understand and especially when these things are on sale at every nursery and you know, like I said, they're they're I checked the Home Depot and Lowe's website before I came in here today. They're on sale up there today. a lot of these things. So I question why we need to I have no issue with the category one Species, but the category two
seems like now we're really trying to stretch it.
But there's we could make laws about things might do this and might do that and
well I think that's a question that Matt should answer. Um but from what I understand from Melissa and Jackie who aren't here, is why would you want to wait for it to become a problem when it has the potential to be a problem? Something along those lines, because they haven't yet done the r amount of damage that ones have, but it's it's coming, is what I understood. Um the Items for sale and the lows and and and the Home Depots, you can't use those as part of your landscape plan. So you're a you're not gonna have those purchased in fulfillment of the land development codes requirement for a
landscape plan. We're not able to, of course, to control individual homeowners due after because they're not planting according to a plan. Elizabeth that kind of answers the question.
Okay. And I follow the ludicrous list. that I squawked about back in two thousand. four or five or six or whenever it was we Did the ludicrous list that makes me have eight different species when of trees when there weren't even eight different species of trees to begin on the site and now I'm planting cypress trees on top of sand hills so I can meet the species diversity requirement. And maybe some of those things need to be revisited some day. But
You plant the trees and the bushes on your commercial site and then one gets run over by a car, it dies, And the new manager of the restaurant or whatever for store. He calls in the landscaping company and says, Hey, plant something over here. And they go get a queen palm. Or put in three queen palms, 'cause it counts as a shade tree. Eight. Who Nobody's
going around after the fact After twenty years later, hey, you got a site plan approval back in two thousand and four and you said you were gonna have three palmetto palms here to count for your shade tree. Nobody goes back and looks to see if those are there. In fact I see landscape all over the county that's not been maintained per its original installed condition. So these things are gonna happen. People are gonna plant these things, especially if they're easily Oh. acquirable.
Did did Matt wanna respond to the question? Because he elevated so he can? Okay. Yes.
Yeah, we can certainly take a look at this at the list and the category two. I mean we have all already narrowed down the list quite quite a lot based off of the last meeting, so we can we can take a look at that. So what
but didn't I understand that if if it becomes a problem, it becomes a category one? It gets moved off the category two and gets moved to category one. Isn't that what you said at the
beginning?
Sometimes they moved down, sometimes they moved up. Sometimes they even get eliminated
from the list. If you If it gets moved to the category one then we worry about it.
That's my point.
I I
don't know. These species under category two are species that are seen in uh MACA probably is are seen in Pasco, is that the reason why they're I d I don't I I kind of agree. I I don't know why there's the
it was it was pared down to species that have been found in Pasco, I believe. Is that correct, Matt? I believe Jackie said that the M.
That is correct. That is correct. And also these category twos They may become Category one, but it's also site specific on on how the layout of the site is and how they're actually taking Uh into the site. So site specifically it could take over and become a category one based off of all that
it's
here.
With all due respect. I owned a home and had three queen palms in my front yard and I can't think of one instance where another queen palm popped up out of the ground. Whereas the nut sedge in the yard spread like wild
Yeah, I I understand that. Like I said, we can take a a look at this list if down some walk
Is there any other questions for Roberto right now?
Yeah.
Oh okay.
Thank you.
Thanks.
Let's grill this guy.
Mr. Hobbit.
Mr. Chairman Mariano. And blessed members of the Planning Commission. Clark Hobby uh Hobby and Hobby PA 109 Oak Brussel Street have been sworn, although I don't think that matters for this hearing. Uh I just had a couple of comments and and again I'm not trying to get in staff's business on this kind of thing because they have a lot more expertise than I do, but there are a couple of things that Uh hit me about this. One is, and I've heard Commissioner Starkey talk at length about her recent
fixation with trying to get rid of Cogan grass. And I just want our staff to know the folks who are here online, I have clients and friends that have spent the better part of the last 10 years trying to do everything possible on their ranches to kill Cogan grass.
Uh in excess of ten thousand dollars, well more than that a year spraying it and we cannot find anything that eradicates it. We have full time employees spraying it and it comes back and it comes back and it comes back. So I think we're asking our citizens, HOAs, C Ds, a bit much when to my knowledge, no one has been able to find a way to kill Cogan. If we wanted to regulate Kogan grass as an invasive species so that it were it was
not encouraged in some way, that's fine. But to my knowledge, nobody's been able to find a way to easily eradicate it. So we need to be mindful of that. And however you draft this, if I'm wrong about that, staff can can advise me. But I would love to know what the answer is there, because none of the folks who own a lot of land have been able to figure it out. Secondly, I noticed I think one of the approvals that some of these things would apply to are, I think it was mines was listed in there. I don't think we
want to be talking about applying herbicides and pesticides near mines that usually have open water bodies in them and some of which are connected and pierce the confining layer. So staff should probably think about that a little bit. You have a limestone mine and you've pierced the confining later, you've got to be really careful about the application of pesticides and herbicides in the littoral zone so that you don't create a bigger problem with the surface water body or even
worse, the aquifer, especially when you have a direct connection connection in some of these areas. And then lastly. Mm. And I think uh Denise is probably uh more aware of this and David as well. Um I when we we gotta be precise about the areas that we're talking about when we say common areas or where the areas are that are to be maintained. And the reason why is if you look at all of our MPUDs and their sections of the comp plan in
the LDC that talk about creating And it's it's uses more than the word common areas. There are requirements to have conservation easements and set-asides on many, many developments now. And so when we come in for a conservation area in an area that's not to have any development, we frequently have to record a conservation easement or there's a platted conservation easement. easement. But the developer in
almost all of those scenarios is only doing that to prohibit development in the area and we're not going to have any ability to con continuously into perpetuity maintain and take out all invasive species. And one of which that that we ran into this uh you know like eighteen months ago. At some point, staff started thinking that we were going to do that on two rivers, and it would have required us literally, it was probably 1,500
acres of land that we would have had to continuously maintain and remove invasives from. Where the only intent in the comp plan when we created these policies was just to ensure that there could never be development in the areas when they're outside the development. Development proposed bubble areas. So I would ask staff go back and be very careful where they're requiring the affirmative obligation to maintain these things. And it can't just be in areas that are, you know, not going to be developed. It's
one thing if we're talking about a common area where somebody is driving in and we've got an entry road and we're trying to create entry features where a C D D or HOA. is likely to have uh a higher level of maintenance, but we're not gonna maintain these areas that are in conservation easement in most cases. We're just ensuring that there's no development there. So I just want staff to be careful in the language that it's not accidentally triggering that kind of maintenance. Thanks. Appreciate it.
Elizabeth I I have one more question for you about the Individual lot. exception or the intent. So I get why you don't want to apply it to individual lots, but What if the H O A say Mr Moody?
He builds a coging grass farm on his lot. So Shouldn't the HOA have the ability to If they want to enforce on an individu individual lock because otherwise his coven grass form might spread to common areas
Well I I think that we're not And I don't know if we want to be in the business of compelling HOAs to go after their residents. I mean that means seems like that's an HOA just to be able to do that. You don't have
a problem with it with their architectural standards or the parking on the street.
Well I mean I I'm not s okay. I'm not suggesting that the HOAs should be required to go after Mr Moody. What I'm saying is shouldn't they have the option Yeah. Of because that's a private deed restriction. If the If they're worried that Mr. Moody's Coven grass is going to spread say he's His lot is right next to the common area. And
Hobby's point They're doing everything they can to get rid of the com Cogengrass in their common area, but they can't control it because Mr. Moody has a Cogengrass farm right next door. I would think that the HOA should have the ability to take some enforcement action against mister Moody Otherwise it's gonna be impossible for them to keep Cogan.
And I was actually gonna bring that up here, thank you, you because you can't farm cold and grass, that's against the law in this state. For the list of plants, there is a whole Florida Administrative Code section and I'm sorry because I didn't write it down before I came, but you can quickly Google that. F DAX has a list of noxious weeds and plant species that are prohibited in this state to cultivate, propagate, And Cogan grass is one of 'em. Like wrong with Brazilian
pepper and a lot of the other things on the Fisk list. I didn't make a big deal of it because our comprehensive plan says that we're going to use the fiscal for identification of the species. So But one can't farm Kogan grass. And Moody does proudly lives in an area where there's no HOA and he will never live in an area where there is an HOA. He can grow a lot, but he can't grow frozen grass.
John, what was the right-of-way? Can we get rid of a nuts
edge though?
Yes, if you and if if you If you just Google Florida Department of Agriculture, Noxious Noxious Weeds. There's a there's a whole Florida Administrative Code section. That lists those weeds.
Okay, thank you. I was looking at the comp plan right here. I
have
the provisions on invasive species removal and it actually references the Florida Exotic Pest Plant Councils list. That's the pisk list? Okay.
That's the former name of the
pist.
So all I was trying to say, Elizabeth, is is that if you're gonna exempt the individual residential lots, you need to put a carve out unless the HOA independently wants to take enforcement action against them. I don't think w they should be prohibited from Stopping Mr. Moody's Congress forum.
And one other thing I wanted to point out for for Clark is I brought up this met had this methodology section put up here because the th this is in the development review manual potentially. It the idea is that it's a site-by-site decision-making process. So if it's inappropriate to use those kind of chemicals near the water body, hopefully staff will you know, working with the applicant and putting this together say, Well wait a minute, you don't want to use those chemicals. Okay.
Thanks. Yeah, that was actually that was what I was getting ready to say as well. Um that it's it's to do the plan and the plan is site-specific and uh you know we'll just direct them all to use Commissioner Moody's flamethrower instead of chemicals and in those areas.
It's interesting because I read and did a whole bunch of reading about control of Kogan grass and there's people that have tried burning it, but the problem is is and Kogan grass is I guess apparently very flamethrower. Yeah. But it doesn't burn the rhizome underground so it immediately comes right back and I can tell you I have the same experience with nuts edge. I can go through with the flamethrower and burn the tops off all I want and it's coming right back next week. So that doesn't necessarily work. But that's one of my concerns about this too, is that We're trying
to ask the private development community and I'm not saying we shouldn't ask 'em to try. Right. impose a requirement upon them that a hundred years of science hasn't figured out how to get rid of. And there are From my reading, I'm by no means an expert on this, but I saw there were two chemicals used in the treatment of Cogan grass. One was glyphosate. Which I'm sure if you watch the news Yeah. There's been multi billion dollar
lawsuits about its cancer causing properties. Okay. And glyphosate cannot be sprayed anywhere near surface water, and then the other one I'm gonna mess this up, a zimp up here or a miz up here or something like that. which is a broad spectrum herbicide That the overspray kills everything it touches. So if you spray this stuff and it goes on an oak tree, it kills the oak tree. So We don't really have a lot of good answers to dealing
with Kogan grass and I I did read one thing it was very promising. There's a lady in the panhandle who uses pigs to put on the property and go root up the Kogan grass, and they've had some success with that, but I don't think it's practical for us to put pigs down in the county's drainage ditches to see if they can root up the Kogan grass. Or in front of Mara for that matter. You know, I I heard Commissioner Starkey talk about the Kogan grass in front of Mara. Last time when I was on the way to Dade City I saw it. I can see it from
fifty two. and it's sitting right there by the edge of the detention pond in the front. What are those people to do? They can't use these herbicides that we've got surface water there. What is it we want them to do? I guess they can go try to dig it up. But even that's proven that it'll come back unless you can get every bit of rhizome. I'm not saying they shouldn't try, don't get me wrong. But
Now we're looking at where you can potentially send code enforcement out there because they've got some Kogan grass that Like you said, a hundred years of agricultural and biological and environmental science hasn't figured out how to get rid of. And all of a sudden the private development community's gonna do it.
Maybe I may do one more question because I want to understand how this is gonna work in the the context of protected trees. So If the Kogan Grass has overtaken trees that we want to retain. Or vegetation that we want to retain.
Is it a little bit? Is part of the plan are they allowed to just clear cut the entire site?
Invasive species.
Can you repeat that?
Let's just say that you've got a site where it's got a lot of invasive species Mix with trees that we want to protect.
as part of this plan are they allowed to just clear cut the site And not mitigate for the protected trees. So I'm I'm just trying to understand how this works I mean is I'm wonder worried about an overreaction to this where Somebody says, Fine I'll get rid of the damn Cogengrass, I'll just I'll dig up the entire site and you'll just have a little bit of a little bit of a little bit Dirt and concrete. I guess that's my concern is is there gonna be an overreaction to this where we lose protected trees.
So this is something that is going to be looked at, these plans get looked at by our natural resources team. They're going to look at each site independently and the combination of species that are there and the amounts. And they're going to come up with a unique plan for each site. Or the applicant's going to come up with a unique plan and they're going to look at it and see if that's
appropriate. Does our natural resources department?
Have proven experience
getting rid of Hogan grass, getting rid of Brazilian pepper. Because there's all kinds of like I said Clark mentioned his agricultural interests that can't figure out how to get rid of it. They're the University of Florida hasn't figured out how to get rid of it. But our natural resources department knows? 'Cause that they do they should go publish the answer for the rest of the country to figure this out too. And I don't get me wrong I appreciate
There. They're wanting to try. and I am willing to pass an ordinance or recommend passage of an ordinance that attempts to do what we can do But I think we have to have reasonable expectations when we do it. And I just I just hate to see this idea, you know, we're putting a burden on an HOA in perpetuity. We're talking about we could potentially call code enforcement out. In fact I read the article in the newspaper in the Tampa Bay Times
Basically tells the public, if you see Hogan grass, call the county to report it. Well Okay, so now who's gonna go do what about that? I mean we're still trying to fix potholes and stormwater pipes that are clogged up and by the way Just on the south side of the Sheriff's Operations Center, on the other side of this parking lot, is a retention pond that is infested with almost every one of these species on this list. What are we doing about that? Let's clean up our own act first.
Well Brett I So that's ultimately my fear though is What even if it's not the developer, let's just say it's the HOA. Say if there is Coven graphs or something in a common area. And we cite them.
Is the HOA gonna come back and say, Fine, I'm clear cutting the whole damn thing. All those trees that you asked me to plant th for For Because I could see an HOA doing that. It might be cheaper for them to Clear cut the entire common area. And just dig it all up, then try to go through and remove the invasives. So I'm I'm I'm trying to figure out is there something in here that
So the uh again it would be based on the plan that the HOA submits to uh natural resources. If they submit, hey, we wanna clear cut this entire thing. I'm not gonna speak for natural resources or their expertise. It's just it's more than me. Uh but I would think that they would say that's excessive and we don't want you to do that. Based on the combination that you have, we think that you should do this or this other thing. Um something along those lines. I I I'm assuming that that's
kind of what the intent is with the kind of the uniqueness of the plan for the site itself. You know, there may be people that want to come in and do certain things and yes, while there's really no way to necessarily get rid of Cogan grass, there may be a way to deal with other exotics that then won't perpetuate the Cogan grass. There may be a way to kind of, you know, do something there. I'm not sure. But that those any unique combinations of things are what the natural resources team is gonna be looking at when people submit those plans.
And and you would need a permit to remove those trees anyhow, um, especially if they're required plantings was part of the landscape plan. I I I think that there's probably ways to catch that concern. Uh another thing that I told some of you, Commissioner, when we were had our one-on-one discussions that there is Is a reworking of the tree ordinance. I think he told you that, John. And there are some other ideas they have there about looking at tree stands instead of trees themselves and actually talking about retaining vegetation
on site in those tree stands. So this is gonna definitely come up as a conversation, I'm sure, again, in regards to invasives in those types of tree stands and areas.
Okay. I heard the presentation yesterday. We'll save the comments on that for later, but
I just had a couple of general questions on on Right-away permits. It sounds like everybody up here understood, but I I didn't hear the presentation. So is there a reason why right-of-way permits are included in here?
The the thinking behind that is that we have a lot of different entities that do pull right-of-way use permits besides as a developer. You've got utility companies and other folks that use our right-of-way all the time. Um we're going through efforts to clean up our right-of-way through public works and the idea is that other folks working in the right-of-way is part of the reclamation when they're done doing their work on our right-of-way to clean up invasives if there are invasives there as part of that reclamation effort. So that's kind of how that came up. Um the They're out there filling
wetlands filling wetlands to create staging areas as they go through and Mm-hmm. upgrade the power lines and power poles, they're all of a sudden gonna get rid of the Kogan grass? We can't even get them to follow the wetland laws.
The point is they're required to have a reclamation plan for cleaning up work they've done in our right of way. So the idea is having this as an additional requirement as part of that reclamation effort. And we've exempted the single family home scenario. Um As an overburden to the single family homeowner that John was concerned about, and but leaving it there for other entities that are pulling those permits.
Okay. And it just I was I was just trying to picture that that example precisely w of Duke and however many hundreds of permits they pull every year and all of a sudden they've got this reporting requirement and the onus and the burden it puts on them. That's all.
I get the idea of what their response will be to you too about that too. Okay. And probably one
of the reasons for that is because there's no regulations that we have available to go after them.
Okay. Any other questions, comments?
So where do we go from here? Yes, any motions?
I'm not sure where to go with this, to be honest with you.
Well, staff is requesting that you find it consistent with the comprehensive plan. Uh the there is a policy series beginning with objective con 1.8 elimination of exotic nuisance plant species. That would be the portion of the comprehensive plan that this LDR is is seeking to implement.
'Cause I'm not comfortable with the fill. And again my concern I I d and to be honest, I'm sorry I didn't try to come up with tightening of language to talk about just the project area versus the the example I use, so I'm not necessarily comfortable with that either. That's kind of where I'm at.
Chris I I see the good and I don't want I don't want to And I don't want to let perfection become the enemy of good here either. Agreed.
But I think it needs more work. It needs more thought, more polish. again, the intent is good. I I I get it.
Mm, my thinking is maybe to go back and rethink some things based on the discussions. Maybe circle back with Other professionals and stakeholders? I I mean I hear we're relying on the natural resource people, but has anybody called in the environmental scientist community, to come in and look at this. I bounced it off of one of the consultants that we work with this week but I haven't bounced it off
the others but Maybe bring in some of those regular environmental consultants that we see here for the wetlands and that kind of stuff to because they're the guys that are gonna end up having to go out and create these plants because I'm not qualified to do it.
And I think you should get some feedback from them as to what is practical, what's cost effective. And then think about some of the questions that David's asked from legal perspective.
And then maybe bring it back.
Yeah,
I mean I personally I understand the good and I see the good in in portions of this ordinance. I just I'm I'm just concerned about the or the the burden and even the enforceability and even the can can anybody even abide by this and meet this.
And that's what I'm getting at, Jamie too. I think they need to rethink some of that stuff.
So Roberto Pro Wesley Chapel. Obviously there were some questions asked of natural resources that they were not able to answer.
If this got continued for
I guess my question is if this got continued, how long d would it need to be continued for so we can get answers to some of those things?
Yeah.
I don't I don't know what the agenda timeline and deadlines and so forth like that are for us. I don't know how realistically how much time there is actually to get work done between meetings. I don't know. So
question back to the comp plan. I quickly before I came to the meeting today went through the comp plan. And I saw we had a whole section. Is there something Is there Elizabeth, is there language in the comp plan today? That would allow Brad
And Roberto to amend the development manual. To perhaps require, like for instance, if I submit a site plan, you've got these Pasco County standard site plan notes. You know, that at least could start with you've got a requirement to remove and dispose of exotic and nuisance species on the Fisk category whatever list and that at least could do something today while we work out the bugs.
So we can we can do that. Anyway, I believe, through the the basic language. I don't think there's any language that would prohibit us from doing that in the comp plan. Um the language speaks to removal of invasive species. So we can do it by a condition of approval on those plans. I wouldn't be
opposed to something like that.
improvement. Based on that and then come back. Yeah. You know what? We start with the hatchet and then if we need the axe later we come back with that. I don't know. But at least you could do something today. Um
Go ahead and continue this, and that would be probably my thinking on this is to continue it, but at least you've got some tool that you could start using tomorrow toward furthering your goal and I can appreciate the goal.
So so just to clarify the the suggested condition would be uh to put the list of those invasive species in the development manual with the the statement that you will you know the condition of approval would be you'll need to remove these from your site, but it will not have the plan or the means or any of this other information in there. You just want the basic
Okay. It's more than there is today, right?
Yeah, we we can do that. At least the category ones, right? Yeah.
Yeah, I would agree. I don't know. So we can we can start doing that? Be in a hundred percent support and I would be I would say that you're in line with the surrounding counties and that they they require that. Penellas County requires that.
And natural resources does get Those plans generally, most of them that would come through. Um so they would be able to see that and
then And I'm not suggesting that we necessarily throw away the ordinance, but then you you kind of circle back, go out to the To me I hate to see this rush through. You g you guys in my opinion, you need to sit down with Clark and Barbers. c clients, this affects them. Um, you need to sit with the environmental science community and kinda get an idea from them as to what they think is practical and achievable and then take
all that into consideration and Come back.
But at least you'd have a tool to start with today.
I think the only thing that might not cover though is that we're not going to be able Brad does not issue right-of-way use permits, right?
No, I do not. But uh we my team does review them, so our tech team reviewer we could add that. Um
You can can you recommend to
the remote Yeah.
And then to be clear, the re the manager development manual you select to at least Publish the amendment on your the website, I think, is what we put.
Yeah, we it's published, yeah.
Well I still think even if Brad attends to do that in the interim, you still have to decide what you're doing with this Ordinance. Are you
Well what I'm trying to do is this.
I think this needs work based on the discussion we've had today. I'm not saying it's all bad. It just needs some work. It needs some polish. It needs some more thought about some of the questions you've raised and that others on the board today have raised and So my thinking would be to continue this. for a month or two months or three months or whatever it may be. to allow the polish to happen but Still lead. these guys with some tool
that they can start doing today. I think Commissioner Starkey I've heard of a three or four meetings in a row, squawking about the Cogan grass. So at least you know she knows you're doing something. I think it's a good thing. As a start.
Well we would like to be able to have this effective prior to October one.
Well
So John, let me explain.
Elizabeth, I I hear you.
Can I explain why, please?
I understand why. Okay, and I'm and I'm gonna tell you that I personally I'm politically opposed to that. The legislature wants you to provide a business or economic impact analysis. For exactly this reason. Your this ordinance is going out and it's creating a burden on the private sector. That's going to cost them money. This is exactly why the legislature, the governor signed that bill. These things do have an impact and you're I mean basically you're saying is, well here I want to ramrod this
through so I can drive the impact before we actually have to disclose to the public what this is gonna cost them. That's not right. But that's why and you know, I hear it all the time, I've heard David say sometimes the legislature preempts us. Well it's because of that kind of behavior that's why the legislature comes in and preempts us. We need to be careful of what we do. And I'm not proposing to push this back to October. I'm just citing for that reason I'm personally politically opposed. I think we need to be real careful about doing things
that
get the ire of the legislature and that's one of them.
Okay. So I asked a question earlier which is how long will natural resources need to answer some of the questions that were put. I mean, Elizabeth, I know you're perfectly capable of drafting Some of the legal stuff and A week if you needed to be a little bit more than a little bit. But
We heard briefly from natural resources that they would take some of the stuff back and discuss it, but I never heard how long it would take them to Get answered. One of the biggest concerns I heard was the reporting requirement. So I haven't even heard from natural resources what the they're gonna do with these reports or why can't they can't enforce another means So how long will it take them to get answers to these things?
The matter are you still on?
I would say sixty days to be fair, so because I cannot speak for a manager who is not here, but I would say sixty days to at least answer some of these questions.
Yeah, I was gonna say it probably shouldn't take too long. I I did raise the the kind of uh resource burden that this might bring to them and so they're they're aware of it and they said that they felt that they had a a way to deal with that. So we just don't know what that is because the right right people aren't on the call necessarily Matt Matt doesn't can't speak for them.
Hypothetically the Planning Commission recommends approval and it goes on to the board. Does that still have to leave time to get it to the board before October first?
I have absolutely no idea. I don't know the time frames for deadlines. Maybe Patty would know better. I Don't live in that world of having to schedule out much in advance to make a deadline for a memo.
Didn't the presentation already have scheduled for two meetings in June?
So it was gonna I think I'm gonna go
there you go. Okay. Sorry. All right. So um so you need sixty days, so I would imagine that we would not be able to get anything to you by July twenty fifth, which is kinda sort of sixty days from now. Um so this can go to the Planning Commission meeting on August eighth. Um
may I may I I'm sorry. W we can have the the questions answered as as soon as possible as you need them. We can get it to the next meeting. I don't think we need them. Sixty days.
Okay, so the next meeting is June twentieth Planning Commission.
Okay, we can do that.
So that's a basically a thirty-day continuance pretty much.
But let me just ask the question.
And yes, that you can get through the board meetings.
That's correct, yes.
Okay, so w uh June twentieth is not gonna work for us, so um if we can continue it to July eleventh, LPA?
Word I think the I think where we're headed. Of course I'm talking. I hear a couple that might support me. Assuming there's a vote for a continuance, we're trying to accommodate you, not necessarily Us. So if the July date I'm that's fine with me.
July eleventh at one thirty in Dade City.
Great. And Denise, on July eleventh, can we make sure that natural resources either here in person or available to actually answer questions? 'Cause I I'm no offense to Matt, but He wasn't really the person to answer some of these questions.
Yeah, preferably in person.
Yes.
So noted. I will send messages and I'm sure uh Matt is probably doing that right as right now as well.
Okay. Uh there's a motion to continue this, I think, John. Is that did was it made was that mo motion made or no? I'm sorry. I haven't made it. Okay, well we
were trying to figure out in the beginning if it were to be made.
Sorry for jumping the gun. It's no motion yet.
So
it was eleventh,
July.
July eleventh, one thirty, Dade City.
So we didn't hear the whispering, but Roberto's you're fine with July eleventh? Roberto. Seven
eleven. Yep. Seven eleven is what we'll shoot for. Okay. Ooh,
that was a bad joke, Brad.
I hope that wasn't a joke.
Then I would move to continue this matter until the July eleventh. L PA meeting in Dade City.
All right. It's a motion and a second. Any other discussion?
Okay, all in favor? Does your motion include a request? I realize you can't mandate it, but a request that Development review. What is your department called now, bro?
department. We're still guessing at it. Uh development review department.
The development review department begin some implementation of in space invasive species. Conditions and publishing the list in the development review manual.
So it's it's really publishing a list uh in the development review manual. Uh Natural Resources has actually been adding a generic condition in this regard anyway. So really the change is to add this to the To the manual.
Yeah and our permission for that.
I I can do that. Don't need it. Just tell me.
Sounds like you're gonna do it anyway.
Sure.
Okay. But if you want it as a site plan note, will you please put it on the website so we all know and we don't have to get it as a comment. We'll just put it on there.
John's still hoping for that one review or that it comes back is approved the first time.
We will uh we we will make those recommendations and and and talk to folks at the pre ad meetings about that, so hopefully it's it's done ahead of time. Well we can't make it a requirement of the site plan submittal because that's actually a code element, so
Gotcha.
All
right, uh any other discussion? All right. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
Thank you.
Thank you.