PDD21-7501 Charles Gilbert Tucker rezoning to AR1
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The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Nov 5, 2020
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The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Nov 5, 2020
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What was said
Machine transcription of 30m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 64% of 143 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
We're gonna move on to the following item and I'll share my screen to show the presentation on the item.
Okay, good good afternoon. This is Christina Acosta from Planning and Development. The next item is PDD 21-7501 in the name of Charles Gilbert Tucker. The request is for a change in zoning from R1, rural residential, rural density residential district, to an AR1, agricultural residential district. The property is located on the east side of Connor Drive, approximately 1,750 feet south of the intersection of Cypress Lane and Dupree Drive.
The site contains approximately 5.46 acres, and the applicant proposes to develop the site in conformance with the AR1 agricultural residential district standards for development. And the surrounding area is characterized by residential uses. The future land use for the site is Res 6, residential six dwelling units per acre.
And this is a look at the surrounding zoning. To the east side, you have the Dupree Lakes M PUD. To the west side of the site, you have all R1. And to the south, you have a mix of R1 and AR1.
We could do next slide. Thanks. And uh the access to the site is from Connor Drive. Actually dead ends just past the site. And this comes to you with a recommendation of approval. And I'm here for any questions you have.
Okay. Are there uh any questions from the guys?
Yes.
So I know there's with some of the comment I've seen about Orange Grove and Stuff like that. What can they not? And I don't even know what they're looking to do, but can they can they not do orange grove on their current zoning or pine trees or what what's the limitations of their current zoning? Yeah, what
is
it? Go ahead.
I can tell you it's the intention of the applicant to rezone the property so he can do agricultural uses that would qualify him for the agricultural exemption.
So under his current zoning, he can't do that. No,
he's having that residential district now.
So I do want to mention we do have a letter in opposition to be read into the record and the applicant is physically present at the kiosk. So do would you like me to read the letter first or so that way the applicant can respond?
Yeah, I think that's the best way to do it. Yeah.
Someone can please um set the time. This is uh three minutes. So this um I have it, Denise.
Uh Did Denise, can I can I interrupt you just just for one moment? Is there anyone present on WebEx to speak on this item?
No, there isn't anyone present on WebEx. So yes, Ms. Tylexander stated that if she would be present, she can state it, but she's she is not present on WebEx. So we're reading the letter. Okay,
so just wanted to make sure. Thank you, Denise.
Sure, no problem. Thank you so much. This is from Lizette Alexander, who lives on Connor Drive. Um I will be out of town tomorrow during the hearing and wish to have this information read at the meeting in the event that I am unable to connect online during the session. The neighbors on King Lake have been advised that Mr. Charles Gilbert Tucker of Connor Drive has recently applied for rezoning this property from the current R1 residential to AR1 and Cultural residential. R1 is a primary farm of residential zoning catering to significant residences. Such
zoning is considered more peaceful and desirable by owners and prospective buyers. A change to AR1 would allow commercial farming and agricultural activities such as citrus growth, as well as other fruits, forestry, plant nurseries, truck farms, fish pools, animal feedlots, hatching and raising of poultry, production of eggs, raising of livestock, hogs, horses, cattle, sheep, etc. The former, the further up we further understand that once the land is rezoned, there is no oversight. Any and all items under AR1 would be permitted. My
family and I are concerned about the ill effects that we would suffer if the rezoning is granted. These issues these include but are not limited to what problems would the added stress of trees like Livestock and their runoffs have on the lake wetlands where the aquifer. Animal waste, pesticides, and use of fertilizers would most assuredly impact the water quality of all three. Neighbors on the lake just spent approximately $50,000 collectively treating our lake for hydrillia after working closely with the appropriate environmental agents. If this rezoning
is approved, our efforts and sacrifice would be all for nonsense. What effect Would there be from the planting of a growth? The latent in question can sustain approximately 545 trees. Citrus land and trucks can tear up the road. Commercialization would bring additional people traffic down the full de sac. What will the effect on the wetlands that border the tougher property? Our neighborhood is made up of residential single-family homes. The preponderance of the properties on the lake are zoned R1. We are hard-working people who care hard earned lands in our neighborhood and are convinced that change to the zoning as requested
would have negative consequences for us all. We respectfully ask that you disapprove the request for rezoning. Serious matter what name was that Alexandra?
Okay. Well we can't ask ask any questions because they're not available.
Well, that's true. What I'd like to ask some questions if I may.
I
have
some questions too, sir.
Okay. Um
the applicant is also available, so perhaps you know he's at the Do you want to
have the applicants respond first and then ask questions?
Well it might be helpful if we if I ask the questions first before the applicants can respond to the right-of-way. Pete you went
right there. Well I had several questions that I have a shorter letter from uh Ms. Alexandria and She brought up the cost of maintaining the road in her document to to us. And and on the first page of the uh agenda memo. It talks about that road being maintained. uh by the county. Is is that gonna be an issue down the road if this uh because with agricultural activities going on, heavier equipment may come in. So that's one question in the road. And the second
question I think she has a legitimate complaint here regarding uh chemical use. Um I'm not a farmer, nor do I pretend to be one. in any fashion and or manner, but I do know that from common knowledge that agricultural business does use a an enormous amount of chemicals. And she brings up the fact that the it in this letter that the they do have a concern regarding, I guess there's a some streams. She refers well the aquifer, which
is the underground water, but th there must be some type of runoff system or some type of watering in that area. When I pull up on the map, The map. That I pulled up on um Google, it shows some type of I think some m small streams in there if they're if I can even use that term. I don't think they're that that large. But that's my main concern is the chemical use in front into the water system there. And Who maintains the road other than the county? Is there gonna be a a a cost, additional
burden to the residents in this area? So those are two areas I'm concerned about.
Right. So so definitely Connor Drive is a county, Cascell County maintained road. Um in terms of repaving it or any of that, that's you know, usually that's done for a paving assessment.
Cost driving, okay.
Um my understanding and from driving down the road, the road is like the actual pavement of the road is is in is in good condition. It's not uh pothole ridden or um depressions and things like that. It's it's not a very wide road, certainly towards the end, but uh the the road is uh generally a good condition.
Well in her in her f document that I have it says it's been repaid several times and it's considerable expense. I'm not sure what the term or what she means by c considerable expense, but When was the last time was it paved and is there is it Expensive to repay up the road at the
Power transportation folks can answer that question, but we can certainly look that up. As to when the last time it went through painting assessment.
Mm-hmm.
Then what about chemicals?
The chemicals I think we can ask the applicant that question. Thank
you.
Um
Are there any other
questions? Yeah, Chris has some questions. Yeah.
Yeah, it just it seems to me that this this request is out of context for the for the area and the the zoning that's surrounding the area there. Um yeah, I see in the to follow up on Chris's point, I do see in the in the public comment that we received there's There's some conflicting information. It seems like one one resident suggested it's gonna be pine trees that are gonna be planted there versus orange grove. So I think you know information from the applicant is their their planned uses and then um what they what they plan to do in the future
with that would be would be very helpful.
So if we can get the applicant at the kiosk, please.
Good afternoon.
Would you please would you please would you please state your name and address for the record? And uh you need to be sworn in as well.
Charles Gilbert Docker. [address removed].
Sir, could you raise your right hand for me?
Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth to help you God?
Yes.
Thank you.
Okay. Um Chris, why don't you go ahead with your questions too? We can get them all maybe addressed at one time.
Sure. Well, I I my question is in regards to the request seems out of context for the for the area where this uh this property is located. So I see in some of the public uh comment that was received by the uh planning commission that there's uh disagreement in the the the future use of the property, whether it's gonna be planted for pine trees or orange grove or the like. So sir, could you clarify your your planned use of the property going forward?
Yes, sir. Um
a lot of a lot of the neighbors, spears and all or see Uh, I'm a third generation citrus grower and my grandfather and and my dad and I, we've owned this property for over seventy years now. And which we sold out in two thousand five to Beeser Home, which is Um Do brilight. And at that time we had six hundred and forty acres there and three hundred and fifty acres of it were in Orange Grove. And we
were producing anywhere from a hundred uh thousand to a hundred and fifty thousand boxes of juice oranges every year going to Tropicana. But when we sold out and sold to Beezer Homes, uh we this piece of land that I live on was a section that we separated from that six hundred and forty four acres that I kept and I kept the amount enough for to do this in the proceedings. uh down the road. uh
like that there to to uh put it back in agriculture. I have no desire uh I don't have the land to get back into the commercial business like we had way back there and through all those years of of grove like that there. I don't ha there's not enough upland to put back in Orange Grove. I'm only interested in putting it back in the pine trees like it was once before. And um then uh uh building me a shed
there and uh um you know a few Um
Other kinds of trees, oak trees, this, that and the other. There's a canal that borders the north side of my property that Oh possibly line with uh cypress trees to help erosion. uh against erosion there and all like that there. So uh and I did uh years ago we did uh Oh Video for the Department of Agriculture u which is accessible through the extension office. uh with
IPIS and all on pesticides and building buffers from getting in any of our wetlands or lakes that we had in the grove, which is all now Dupree Lakes. Years ago, my grandfather had the Armored Corps engineers come in there and had all of that connected and we were able to maintain, keep any pesticides or whatever out of those wetlands or anything else. But I have no desire to do that I or anything like that. I just want to
put it back inside in agriculture and pineapple. trees. I have I'm a single full-time single father with two sons that are just fifteen and twenty years old. And I want them to my youngest one is uh Saltmore Atlanta Lakes High School. He's joined the Future Farmers Association there with the school and uh I'm just wanting to assure that, you know Um Oh, if he he has
something a project to do with the future farmers there and one of his last three years in schooling there, he's allowed to do it there and stuff. Besides that, I wanna plant the pine trees. I talked to one of the neighbors the other night and he said, I'd sure like to see it back in the pine trees the way it was before. So So this about and uh the cost of the roads, we endured that cost of the road for almost a mile. 'Cause the first section was Connor Drive and then the second section was Dupree, which circles
around there. And um our family had to pay for the road because our property bordered the east side of all those roads around there. So we we um participated in that also. uh, like that there. But I have no intentions of doing I I have deer sleep outside my bedroom window at night. I wanna keep the deer there. I I don't want, you know. I'm just trying to that land Pasco County, see, that
land was separated from the seven hundred acres. Okay, I can't separate it no more. You can only split a piece of land in Pasco County one time. So I can't sell it. I'm mowing it regularly. I keep it mowed and and all like that there and I would just like to to be able to uh put it back in trees and and um get um be able to qualify for the tax break on it. I have no No plans of nothing else.
So so understanding that, so you have no no desire in a commercial use or commercial enterprise related to that. It seems like your neighbors are are confused with with your plan um as to how you're gonna use the property. But that being said, it it it you know not having the commercial aspect to the to the project certainly makes it uh uh more viable I guess I guess to me as a planning commissioner to to approve this. But um Um you know, I I think there is some miscommunication, I guess, with
with your neighbors. Um that being said, would you be interested in in I don't know if I can ask this, Denise, but some sort of consent order related to to the the the motion? Could we could we uh commit that to a non commercial use uh or something of that sort? Would that be a an opportunity?
I don't know if I was trying
Yes, exactly. Yeah.
So Planning Commission, this is David Goldstein. That would have to be in the form of a deed restriction offered by the applicant. This is not a type of zoning that you can Condition So If the applicant is willing to to offer up a deed restriction that limits us to non a non commercial farming operation, that would be up to the applicant to offer that up.
All right. Thank you, David.
If I could say if I could we could ask the applicant, is he willing to uh accede to uh deed restriction?
May I'm may I Juck Sick. Can I may I come in and say something? I am uh working with the apple.
Excuse me, you're gonna have to gonna come up and give your name, address, and uh how
my name is Joe Seidel. I live at [address removed].
Okay. And go ahead and get these born.
Sworn in. Uh I swear that's the right-of-way.
Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, so help you God?
Yes. Uh You don't know me. I've lived in Land Oakes for 38 years. Charlie has been my neighbor. I knew his grandfather I as I had s has y I knew his father, I knew Charlie. I'm a commercial real estate agent. I started out in farmland. I come from a farm area, Lancaster, Pennsylvania, so ag is kinda a little bit in my blood. I've lived in a neighborhood of Land O' Lakes, like I said, for 38 years. I watched a citrus road
next door turn into a subdivision. I watched a a pine forest tree farm across the street turn into a subdivision. Uh Mr. Tucker here is has been a friend of mine for thirty plus years. I believe him when he says that he'll do a non commercial use I guess the question I would have, I'm trying to help Mr. Tucker. He's asked me to help him. in the idea of let's make this non commercial, having a tree farm is gonna sell the pines, is
that considered commercial? Um, I don't think it's his he can tell me if I'm wrong. I don't think it is his intention to run a truck farm out of there to uh make it a as he said, he's not gonna make it a grove. We've seen Pasco County, as you well know, was a predominantly agricultural area. It was one of the best citrus growing areas. areas in the state. Part of the reason is because of the soils. We can produce fruit here pr faster than just about any any other place in the state, which is
hard to believe if it's true. Unfortunately with freezes and greening, citrus industry's gone. And it's not coming back anytime soon, as you well know. Uh so Mr. Tucker's not trying to do that. I understand the neighbors' objections. If I was living on that street, those things would come they would cross my mind as well. as far as him restricting it to commercial uses again, if it's Saying that you can plant pines, that's not a commercial use. Yeah.
Yeah we're saying You can't plant your pine trees and you can't have a, you know, I have beautiful citrus in my own yard. You know, I had half a dozen. I had one tree that had five different varieties of fruit on it. For forty years, you know, we grafted it on there. All that's gone. So I guess the question of Mr. Goldstein would be If he says no commercial, does that mean he can't have one
so so yeah, I I tend to agree with the applicant, um, that the term commercial is a little bit ambiguous because if he sells one tree, arguably that's Commercial. I think if the Planning Commission If if your desire is to limit it to a Pine tree farm, you could ask for a deed restriction that limits it to a pine tree farm. Um, or if your desire is to limit the use of pesticides. on the land, then you could ask for a D restriction that limits the use of
pesticides. But The problem with the phrase commercial is it it
I think we may have issues if he goes to sell one tree and then that arguably that's a commercial operation. So I think th the motion maker or the or the The Planning Commission member that has concerns probably needs to clarify Whether your issue is trying to limit it to Just pine trees or limit to use of pesticides, you probably we need some clarity as to what your real goal is.
Okay. Well Chris, you wanna clarify your thinking on that?
Well, I think, you know, in in in my mind an Orange Grove is a completely different thing than a pine tree farm. So an Orange Grove is a commercial enterprise that's gonna uh there's gonna be pesticide application. There's gonna be uh you know, water requirements for for watering the groves and like to to keep it viable and the like. So I think there's That's kind of where my mind goes on the on commercial enterprise. I think if we're talking about a pine tree farm, and that that was my my reason for the question to the applicant to see if that's the case, because I think in my mind that's a completely different,
different scenario as far as an agriculture use for the property goes, and I would be inclined to support that sort of use.
If we said a non uh commercial citrus growth. Or uh yeah, no commercial citrus group.
Okay, so is the applicant asking to limit it to a pine tree farm? or a non commercial citrus crow? Is that what you're asking? I'm not sure if I understand the request.
I guess the thing is he still wants to have a couple of citrus treats and and to but but to say We'll restrict it to a non-commercial citrus growth. It's not a citrus, it's not a commercial grove operation, but if he limited it strictly to pine trees and then he grows half a dozen citrus trees for his family and friends, Are we gonna be back here later on?
So so yeah. So my recommendation, if that's your intent, would be to limit it to a pine tree farm or a non or a non-commercial farming operation. So your pine tree farm, you'd be able to sell the pine trees. But any other form of farming you wouldn't be able to sell. It would just be for personal use. Right.
Right. Yeah.
So is that Is that acceptable to the applicant?
Yes, sir.
Hey, are you willing to enter into a deed restriction that limit makes a limitation?
Yeah, sir.
Okay, would that address the Planning Commission's concern?
I think it addresses my concerns. Yes, sir. Pete you okay?
I'm a little confused. Are you saying limit he he wants the gross Orange trees.
For personal use, say no more, not to exceed more than ten orange trees. Well, I don't like
D Denise.
Well
I don't know.
This is Jamie Girardi. Can I ask a question? If if if the applicant wanted to plant Is there a limit on the number of pine trees and citrus trees he could plant on his property as it's zoned currently? So really the issue comes down to being able to get the tax benefit of going to AR.
Right.
Okay. Okay. Just wanted to clarify. Mr.
Chairman Mariano. Yes. It's Michael Cox. Um So I understand everybody's concern. Um But in reality, the the fact is this is like a not even a five and a half acre piece of land. If it was a fifty acre piece of land, I could understand going through all those gyrations of uh putting sea restrictions on it, but it's a small piece of land and This is I think a
first for me, someone opposing um someone wanting to do a zoning change because they want to plant trees. So I mean I personally think it's fine the way it is and we should approve it.
All right. So I just want to make sure we're clear though, and I'm gonna ask Denise a question. What? 'Cause we keep talking about the planting of trees. Are there other types of agricultural operations that are allowed in AR One? that are not planting a tree, such as far chickens. Poultry uh those types of operations.
But Denise, on the PowerPoint, there's a there's a slide included at the end that has all the uses of AR1 if you want to put it up.
So so I just wanted to be clear. That's why I wanted this to be pulled up because I d I want you to understand that AR one allows more than just the planting of trees. It does allow Swine, cafowl, small animals. Um so It this isn't just a tree issue. I just want to make sure we're clear.
Yeah, although I think that's that's why your idea of, you know, limited to nomr non commercial use is is probably the best the best way to put it, rather than limited the number of trees. But Um, I'm open to I just think well, I sort of think like Mike does, you know. Yeah. It's hard to turn down somebody that wants to plant trees. You know, and that and when I looked at the aerial, it looks like the That
for five acres is across the street from the lake, is that correct? Yes, yes sir. So it I don't think anything would run off from that end of the lake directly unless I'm Plus I can't see something that's there, but Anyway, I'm I'm open to a motion if uh unless you a unless any of you have more questions.
Mr. Chairman Mariano Cox. I'll move for approval.
I'll second the approval.
Well I just wanna I just wanna clarify get the mo is that with the assumption of the deed restriction that the applicant
No.
Or or without it.
No. Without commended by staff.
So so assuming no deed restriction.
Correct. That's
correct.
They've already
clarified that he can actually plant as many trees as he wants on right now, right?
Okay, so we have a motion, we have a second. Yeah, any further discussion on the motion? All in favor signify by roll call. Aye or nay?
Jamie Girardi. Aye. Michael Cox?
Bye.
Peter Hansel? Aye. Roberto Saiz? Aye. Christopher Poole.
Yeah.
Chris Williams? Hi. And Chairman Charles Gray. Aye.
Okay, just for the record, um it appears that there's some ex parte communications. Um Mr. Hansel, you received an email from Ms. Lis Lizette. Did anyone else receive an email from the phone?
That came in my packet.
Oh, that was sent to you. Okay, perfect. Okay, that is in your packet. Thank you so much. I I apologize if that was separate. Thank you.
All right.