General public comment on fence variance, demolition, sacred sites
What the county recorded
This item is not from the published agenda
It is a stretch of the recording that this archive identified as a separate matter — a call to order, a recess, or something taken up that the agenda does not list. There is no official title, no staff recommendation and no disposition, because the county never recorded one. Everything below is inferred.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Board of County Commissioners, Aug 22, 2023
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Board of County Commissioners, Aug 22, 2023
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
What was said
Machine transcription of 24m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 60% of 127 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Now is the time for public comment. Citizens are given an opportunity to comment on any current or future agenda item coming before the board. And on any other business on the board's purview. Today's public comment will be handled as follows. First we will take public comment from those who are here in person. Then we will take public comment for those who are pre-registered for a WebEx link and currently on queue. When you address the board, comments are not directed personally at a commissioner or team member, but rather directed at the issues. This provides mutual respect between board members and the public. After
stating your name and address for the clerk, a three minute timer will be activated. After two minutes, a single beep will indicate you have one minute left. When your time is up, two beeps will sound and you should close your comments. WebEx participants will be disconnected automatically when their time is up. Madam Clerk, do we have anyone signed up for public comment?
Yes, sir. Um the first individual you have signed up is Don Shirley. And then behind her is Wendy Nash.
High.
Hi. Name and address for the record, please.
[address removed].
All right, thank you. You can proceed.
I am requesting a variance request fee be waived to help with my fence remain at six foot on a corner lot off of a highway where my ADT camera picks up about one to three cars per minute passing. Men walking by all hours of the night and it protects me and my property. I own the corner lot in Beacon Square. Where the Uber driver is a very good thing. Randall Cook was brutally murdered by MS 13 gang member, and that Tampa Bay Times featured commissioners Jack Mariano and Kathryn Starkey discussing
the discur concerns of code enforcement. that have responded to calls of homeless camps and panhandlers due to drug abuse, unpredictable behavior, and carrying weapons. One in every 231 being a sex offender in holiday compared to one in every 536 in Pasco as a whole. I installed ADT for my inside protection and a six-foot vinyl fence for my outside protection. I looked up when I moved in to do my due diligence and it stated on the Pasco website
that unless a fence is supported by brick, block or concrete, that it was fine. Um on the link that it leads to it states I'm sorry. In the link that it leads to states in one zero zero three point three C that a side or ear rear yard can be six foot. In 1003.3B, it states that a double frontage lot shall not exceed four foot in the front. Of the yard or front of the dwelling unit. It does not give a
definition for that. I looked up double frontage lot. And on eight or more definitions, it says specifically a lot abutting two or more streets that do not intersect and specifically excludes corner lots. I was told in court in Pasco County that that the Pasco County definition is different from anywhere that I found online. I received three quotes from Pasco County licensed fencing companies. None knew of this code against six-foot fences on corner
lots. There's 88 homes in my neighborhood in a one-mile radius that has this six-foot fence the same as mine. I was told this code was created in 1975, which was 48 years ago, and this is not safe in 2023. Um the eighty-eight fences in my neighborhood were definitely not built more than 48 years ago. Wood fences last about 20 years with proper maintenance and vinyls are new. I've been fighting for my right to safety and privacy since October of last year. The code is not clear, the code is not safe,
and the code is outdated and not in l aligned with the American uh Crime Prevention Institute, which recommends at least a six-foot fence and states that prevention is the best defense. The com the mission of the Code Compliance Division states on the website to enforce county codes to promote, protect, and improve health, safety and waref welfare of the citizens of Pasco County. I am asking that my variance request fee be waived
and help in following through to make sure that this six-foot fence can remain for my safety.
Yeah. This is in my district and we've met and I I'm in support of her request. Um and it's another reason why. Um I think we need The permit. Okay. Um so that people so we can get these kind of things fixed and we don't go through what this woman has been going through since she moved in. So maybe I can maybe committee report.
You can grant a waiver of her fees, you cannot grant a variance. That's
a waiver of the fees, that's right.
So you're
talking
about a waiver of the fees. Okay. She still has to apply for the variance to the Planning Commission.
And Commissioner Starkey you you make that motion I I um make the motion to uh approve the waiver of the fees.
Second.
We'll call vote. District one, Commissioner Oakley. District District two, Commissioner Weightman.
Aye.
District three, Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District four, Commissioner Bradford.
District 5, Chairman Mariano.
And uh Mr. Marin, if you could at some point Bring that code back to us if we need to tweak it to get it more uniform to Align with uh the agencies out there would be great. Right? Thank you.
Thank you.
Good luck.
Thank you.
Okay, Wendy Nash has signed up next.
Wendy Nash, [address removed]. Um Well we border. Newport the city of Newport Ritchie, but we're in Pasco County, live in Colony Cove Mobile Home Park. Um Meadows Park has been is being revamped and they're setting a pickleball court within 75 feet of our homes. Noise has been a problem across the country, lawsuits, etcetera. We came to speak to the
Commissioner Gary Bradford and his assistant Paula. Sur Nigliario. I don't want to say it wrong, sorry. Um
And although it's not in county jurisdiction they have uh done some research on it and told us that some phone calls would be made to support us and I want to, you know, publicly thank That the branch and and Mr. Bradford and and uh Paula. Um We are curious as to who to call when the volume noise exceeds the city ordinance. Do we call New Port Richey or do we call Pasco County? Because we
live in Pasco but it will violate Their noise. Their noise ordinance. Um So Debbie Mann says she's gonna be a little bit more than a little bit. Let us know which one to call button. I'd kinda like to make you all aware of this situation because there may come a time when We have to call Pasco County, you know, if New Port Richey doesn't do anything. I know they're incorporated and they kinda you can't touch 'em. Because they are a
city of their own means and you know you guys really can't Help us apparently. But um I want you aware of the situation and that, you know, we're fighting to try and do things the right way. And if Pasco County ever wants to build pickleball courts, In um any other area of Pasco County, we have some really good connections and lots of information to explain how to do it right, not this way. Thank
you.
Okay, and the next individual signed up is Stephen Jonas.
Good morning, Steven Jonas, [address removed]. I'm here today to ask for the board's assistance in having an order to demolish rescinded or the appeals period extended for a property located at 2406 Arcadia Road. I recently purchased a property of 24-6 Okadia Road that has an order to demolish on the property. I've spoken to the County Attorney's Office, the building department, in order to have this order either rescinded or my appeals period
extended on this property. There is no structural defects with the house. It was used a drug house. I did not know that. The sheriff had such an issue with it until today, which I'll go to the sheriff after here to get his help in having this order possibly rescinded. The house is currently assessed just the building itself as $156,000. If this house is demolished, the counties will lose significant tax revenue. The tax bill last year was a little over a thousand. Removal of the homestead on this property, the tax bill will go up to about $3,300
per the county's website. There's a significant tax reduction on this property.
This house will be turned into a rental. that'll be affordable housing for residents of our community. I've lived in this community for fifty six for forty-six years. Um I'm an attorney in this community. I have a business here as well. Um this is not my first rental, um, but I'm asking today for some of the board's help. I purchased the property August 4th. I've had 18 days to work on this property. I understand a consent order was done already, but I'm looking for the board's help in order to either gain the consent order removed or given an extended period of time for me to file an appeal to bring this property. into compliance with
the county's request. Thank you.
Okay. Um Commissioner Starkey?
Um so I've just been briefed on this a little bit. Um this is in my district, but I think Well, I appreciate that you want to fix up the house. I think we open the door to legal issues. Um is Jessica here?
I think Sam Sam. Sam Sam or Jessica were probably.
Well who whoever was working on this, the problem is is that there was a previous buyer, and I only know this much.
So Sam, can you
come
up?
Like is do you want to do this during public comment?
This is an important issue. This gentleman waited. He was going to come speak at the last board meeting, but staff wanted him to wait till Wednesday. So we talked to him Wednesday, he didn't get anywhere. So this is like time.
Let our attorney speak. Why why I'm not necessarily for this in this in this case.
There
was
an order to demolish issued uh by the deputy building official on this property on may sixteenth, two thousand twenty three. It was determined to be a slum and blighted structure. So I don't know that that's an accurate statement that there were that there were no structural issues with the property. I they found that it met the criteria for demolition. Additionally, the Sheriff's Office advised us that it was a known drug house, a nuisance property, a problem property. So it's really Kind of a an ideal property for the HRE demolition program. Uh the appeal deadline expired
on June 21st of 2023, about a month after the order to demolish. There was a different investor who came to us on June 22nd, 2023, had not purchased the property yet, inquired about purchasing the property, wanting to rehab it. We advised him at that time because the appeal deadline had passed, we we did not think that it would be appropriate to extend the deadline. He walked away, he did not purchase the property. Mr. Jonas purchased the property on August 4th, 2023. Uh it was six
weeks after the order to demolish uh appeal deadline had expired and that's all public record, that's all recorded. Um he had not contacted our office until after he purchased the property. under our code uh once that appeal deadline passes the the order to demolish it becomes a final Order of demolition. even if the board wanted to help this individual. I don't believe that there is a legal means to do so.
So Um so I appreciate you wanting to um
to help clean up the neighborhood and and we are working very hard on holiday to get rid of our drug houses. And in a little while you're here Here what happened with the General Moody yesterday in our press conference But um I just
You know, we're we're we're telling investors no. That we can't to go back and forth with different investors and and plus it's the law. So that's my issue. I
I guess over and above that as far as just the county policy County w as a county here, I'm a resident here. We're looking to put as much tax revenue as we can on our books here. This does nothing but take that tax revenue away.
Well there'll be a new home put on there.
Well not necessarily with the situation that we have in Holiday now with the amount of um homeless and uh drug issues there, I can't see where an investor would go put a new house when the old one's torn down and the county's not here to help us out at all.
So I'll say I think, you know, our staff has done the right job, it's gone through the right process, et cetera. So I'm comfortable with what they have done every step of the way. I know you tried to reach out to me and you did last week, right before the board meeting, and I suggest you come then. Staff wanted you to wait. Frankly, I think they should have just told you then not to, when we could have had the discussion two weeks ago. But I would like to have you talk with Sam and Alex. I know the sheriff wanted to get this down for the right reasons as a drug house. We don't want any drug houses. But knowing this from what I hear, it's
a very easy cleanup. It doesn't even need a permit to get readdressed. He can put people that we have need affordable housing. He can put someone in affordable housing. He can save the county the money from having to go spend the money to go demolish and then lose the tax revenue as well. It makes sense if we can find a way. So Alex, if you would get with Sam and see what you're gonna see if we make something happen. I'm comfortable with you owning this property rather than having a a a demolished lot where who knows how long it's gonna take if someone every does even wanna come
and build it with these high interest rates at et cetera, uh I can have a structure that's in there with with someone living there to make it better for the neighborhood. So I'm comfortable with it if you can make something happen.
So Mr. Chair, just to be clear, I believe staff The building department has already issued a notice to proceed to demolish this house. So if you want a couple of days for them to have this discussion, I think the building department would have to contact the contractor and ask them to Delay the demolition if that's the board's Desire.
I tend to agree with Sam that there's probably no way to do it, but
the building apartment would have to contact the contractor and ask them to delay the demolition at least for a short period of time.
So I'd like to see a motion from a board member to delay it. Work with the county administrator.
Uh two is two weeks okay for a delay. I need to get to the sheriff to get his approval to where he agrees to not dem demolish the structure. And then if I can get the sheriff to agree You know, we can go from there, but I'm gonna go right after here, I'm gonna go try to get with the sheriffs.
Okay.
So you don't even need two weeks. He's right.
Would someone be inclined to make a motion to continue this for two weeks as far as his demolition order goes?
But to be clear, the demolition order is in place. What you're delaying is The actual demolit you're out you're asking our contractor to delay the demolition for a couple of weeks.
I'll make that move.
Have a motion. I'll second it. Any further discussion? Roll call
vote? I Yeah, I just I just think it's unfair to the former investor. And I don't know how you treat investors differently.
And so The the former investor didn't purchase the property. The forum investor is not here in front of you today asking for the property. Well,
because he because he was told what the law is. Now But my my staff is telling me that's the law. We don't we follow the law, we don't make it here.
There's no prejudice so as far as the law is considered, where it becomes the order to demolish. There's no prejudice to the county as far as extending that appeal period. There's no prejudice to the county as far as extending the period of time to demolish the house. I'm just asking for that extension period of time to do that where it's actually a benefit to the county to extend it because now we have a property that's on the tax rolls that's generating a tax revenue of like three times more than what was being paid before. And the property's not gonna be a drug house. It'll then be a house that's used for affordable housing for folks.
That that's a big deal to the county, I think.
Did I misunderstand what attorney's saying that this That there's a there's a law to undo the law? I mean there's a
Right. Well I think he's I think Mr. Bounty's correct. There's probably no legal way to get around this, but
But I think what Mr. Boundy's I've also heard him say is that there's there's no even point discussing the legal issue unless the Sheriff's Office supports keeping this house up. It is a known drug house. I have not heard we have not heard any plan that is not going to be I All we heard is words. Okay, I don't know that we've seen any plan to rehab this house to prevent it from becoming a drug house. These are all things the sheriffs are going to want the sheriff's office is going to want to know before they decide it's okay to keep this house up.
This has been a major problem for this neighborhood. And all I'm asking for is
that time I'm just asking for that time. I'm not the previous owner. I'm a new owner of the property. I'm asking for that time to do that. That's all I'm asking for.
And the work that needs to be done is what?
It's minimal. talking about painting, cleaning, nothing there's no natural work. We we don't condemn houses for not being painted. I I would I would I would build the county either county can come in and take a look at it. The building department I took talked to the building official. There is no structural defects with this house at all.
Commissioner Weightman. Thank you, Chair.
Mm.
Who's the responsible party for demoing the house? The county or a private contractor?
County but we we hire a private contractor.
So will this delay based on the schedule? Increased mo you know. No. Mobilizing on a project or I mean 'cause this is on obviously it's probably on a contractor's schedule. They're planning to mobilize to do this project. There's gonna be frustrations there as well and potential increased costs to them. So
I mean I think your concerns are well founded, but I don't know the answers to them. I mean I understand that being in the construction business as well, that that very well could be. Um we can certainly check and bring it back to the Ron Oakley.
No, I'm just saying
it's a it's a single family residence, whether they it's it's a one like uh it's not like it's a huge shopping mall or something they're trying to demolish. It's a it's a small house on a small lot. I mean it's a block home. So for them to pick up to do another house instead of this house on a certain day, I don't think it's gonna cause any harm to the
public.
I mean I th you could make that part of your motion if that's Yeah. Chair H or Chair or
Vice Chair Oakley has a motion on the table if he wants to would amend
What did you say again?
The the the motion would be to direct the contractor to delay this demolition two weeks if there's no additional cost to the county or contractor.
Okay. I'll make that partner my motion. Second is okay with that as well. Roll call vote.
District One, Commissioner Oakley. Aye. District two, Commissioner Weightman. Aye. District three, Commissioner Starkey. Nay. District four, Commissioner Bradford.
He was on mute, but it looks like he said aye. Uh District 5 Chairman Mariano. Aye. Thank you. Okay.
Good luck.
Two weeks.
Mr. Chairman Mariano. Commissioner Oakley. We've had three people speak on public comment. Yeah. And we've made action with each one e two of the three. Um public comment is not meant to do that. I agree. So we don't need to be doing that at all. We need to hear what they say. make note, point out someone to visit with them outside the room and keep the meeting moving instead of being a little bit of a
And I agree and I was gonna have the first motion actually wait till committee reports, but she wanted to make the motion so no and I had been involved with this gentleman and I understand that.
I don't plan to do it again. Takes up a lot of time. It does. But we solved two big issues for people. All right. Anyone else for public comment?
Yes sir. Uh Dylan Rich.
Good morning. My name is Dylan Rich. I am the photo chapter president of Save the Sacred Sides Alliance. I live at [address removed]. While growing up in New Portie, I was fortunate enough to have enjoyed the Pasco Coastlines. I had always been curious about who had walked the coast before us. This curiosity has inspired my interest to the times when prehistoric natives cultivated land to the fifteen hundreds during the Spanish and French expeditions. I would like to share with you today just a piece of history unique to our shores. These are a
few engravings from the fifteen hundreds by Jacques Lemoyne, French cartographer out of the settlement of Forta, The first slides show a few important Indian chiefs of that time. Beginning with the illustration of the King Temukan tribe, King Hulada Otina, which means King of Kings and all his warriors. Next is Chief Othor, centered in front of John Rabald's column, And last is Chief Satariwa giving his motivational speech before leading his warriors into battle. These are just the three chiefs of the many native tribes that lived here. For centuries
these tribes traveled from all over to Pasco, places like Enclope, River Park, for fresh water and trade for for worship ceremonies or even to be buried. This shows Florida master file under John Lunsford's study. Third page, it states that Encloupe Mound APA 00010 was in fact used for burial. Also in the master file, historic site specialist Daniel Petton's study in 1972 compares similarities to what is known as the Oldner Mound found at the mouth of the Cody River, in which Clarence B. Moore's excavation documented
the significance of every burial in the mound. He would record every burial, whether it was flexed or bunch burial. Also, along with items with burial like jewellery, clothing no different than our burial practices today. As founded in 1958, studied by Dell Silverstein in the Florida Master File neighboring Anclote River Park is API 00043. Village site and mound now known as Burnt Mill or village Indian Village two. The Stantec Culture Report makes it clear that the site should be left undisturbed. According to this report, five
hundred and twenty historical objects were found in only a small sampling of areas. Destruction of any burial or mound is violation of native religious beliefs. These beliefs should be respected just as rights of any descendant of colonial burial would be considered. I would like to believe that is priority of Pasco County Committee. My request with all this evidence is that there be further testing done at increased depths with ground penetrating radar and that the site be registered with the National Historic Register. industry. Miko Thompson, the traditional chief of Hickory Ground,
said the struggle is not just about the past, it's about the present and the future. This is a universal human struggle. We stand united in our righteous determination to ensure that all sacred sites are respected and preserved. Decency demands it. Thank you for your time.
Thank
you.
Okay. Um I have three additional individuals signed up that were signed up for the 9 a.m. I'm gonna call their name and because they didn't speak this morning. So Um Hugh Townsend, followed by John Tucker, followed by Lois Mucker. I don't know if they are still here. Mr.
Townsend will be back in September to speak to the item that was here.
Okay, so Mr. Townsend is not
here.
And I don't see anyone else approaching, so I believe maybe they left after the nine a.m.
Okay. Anyone else for public comment? Is there anybody on WebEx?
There is no one on WebEx. And we'll close public comment.