Development permitting process and improvements

1:35:47If that's all you have, then I'm gonna come back to you in my Commissioner items to talk about development permitting. Permitting to continue that discussion.

1:35:56Okay.

1:35:57Okay.

1:35:57This this tape will be kind of relevant to that as well. Okay. Um

1:36:01Mr.

1:36:01Science and I first.

1:36:03You want to do Commissioner Commissioner Oakley has just

1:36:06a little bit.

1:36:06I'm good

1:36:07with it. I I I'm I'm good with time. So Jack has a tape that he wants us to see and it kinda has to do with the permitting, I guess, the permitting process.

1:36:17No.

1:36:17No?

1:36:18No, this is about permitting in general and Uh the the gentleman from the cont contractors institute, Robert Coning, uh came to speak. We had a meeting with Mr. Carbella, Mr. Ba uh had Mr. Bellison, Mr. Bailey in there. No permitting staff, just I wanted people to be able to come forward and speak and This is about a just over ten minute presentation, but he really kinda like I think brought everything to light about what we can do, there's a solution that's out there and I think he h he highlight some heavy stuff, but I think it's something we can use and and benefit

1:36:49from.

1:36:49Yeah.

1:36:50Okay.

1:36:52Mr. Marino, how are you? Thank you. Uh my name is Bob Coning. K O N I and G, I'm the director of the contractors institute. And I'm a lifelong resident. Um Pasco County, born in New Port Richey, or as when I was a kid, NBR, we called it no place really. Uh

1:37:12I hear at at the institute I hear a lot and f from contractors all over the state. We're one of the largest providers. of exam prep and continuing education and all around the state. building departments largely get beat on, you know, because they're the they're the point everybody's looking. But here in my own hometown, I I can't help But feel the frustration. A lot of this at some point becomes

1:37:42self inflicted. these problems we're having. Uh for instance, we teach we have taught many inspectors in Pasco, Pinellas, Hillsboro, Miami, Dade. Jacksonville. I've been teaching inspections. inspectors and building code officials since the eighties. Oh.

1:38:05W we teach rightfully, so the building code in chapter one Uh th the the process is supposed to work like this. The building code in Chapter One says, hey, these are the things you will submit plans in and those items will be reviewed by a plans examiner. And that plans examiner, how are you, my friend? Uh will make notes as things that they feel that conflicts with the code. Plans examiners aren't architects or engineers. They're not to

1:38:35review calculations or ask for calculations to be submitted. If you're a plans examiner and you doubt something, ask it to be peer reviewed. Okay, so the plans examiner then uh approves those plans. Those plans then are stamped and are taken out into the field. Then the field inspector is goes out there to see in fact what that plans examiner. evaluated and approved. is does in fact

1:39:06exist in reality.

1:39:09Okay. Now that list of things that you look at as a plans examiner and those things you follow are codified in Chapter 1 of the Code. However, it gives, we all know, Florida Statute 553 conveyed the right. for local governments to amend And have more inspections. Say? You can have a metal lath inspection. Co doesn't require it, but you can. You can have this roof dry inspection. Code doesn't require it, but you can. You

1:39:39can add all these other things, and that's what we've done. We've put a burden on our inspector's shoulders. That we didn't need to. Listen, there's what the code says you check, there's what you inspect. The rest is up to the builder. If the builder's not doing it right, he's going to get sued civilly. There are rules. We are not, we meaning code officials, because I am both a code official and a contractor. We are not God. We have inspectors out there measuring

1:40:10the shower slopes in the floor for a quarter inch per foot and stopping projects. We have inspectors out there say, oh, there's no baffles in high-heeled trusses. To stop the blow when it's impossible it can't. We have plans examiner holding up grades away from building on a house that was submitted on peers, for God's sakes. Yes, that is incompetence at a level uncomprehensible. But We can't fix

1:40:41that. It it i it is that's right. The the education, the training in the field is bad, in the inspectors is bad. But what we can do is not overburden. The inspectors we have. We want to make our duty, at least my opinion, our duty as code officials. is to in fact see that items of public safety are in fact done. If your metal lath is turned

1:41:11uh a quarter turn as we've We had one I I wrote Esther about and and they and they and they and they red tagged it Well then. That's not even in the code to check. That's not accurate. It wasn't an accurate statement and there was no reason. But it's what that inspector felt well I was trained at. So We need to take a look, in my opinion, as what what burden we're putting on our plans examiners and what burden we're putting

1:41:41on our inspectors and relieve that first. Second, I mentioned this earlier. maybe a a year ago to the building official. I think we really need a three panel, volunteer, group That works with the building department. If you're having problems getting something approved and the departments can't talk, put it to a three-panel. I'll volunteer I know a lot of other people will volunteer. They we don't have to have any authority, but

1:42:12just say, look, this guy has this problem. Why don't we resolve it like this?

1:42:19We have a We'd have an owner's affidavit here, but A lady sent me a a realtor who I've known for years. A man owns property over fifteen years, a trailer. On a piece of property. And h he he lives up north. The thing is dilapidated. He wants to sell it. He can't come back anymore to Florida. So he says, I can't sell this in good consciousness. It wouldn't be safe. We need to tear it down. So he comes down to Florida, he gets an owner's

1:42:49permit to tear the coach down. And I have all the documents. It was just the coach, nothing else. He tears it down. Building apartment comes out. Oh well wait a minute, you didn't tear up all those slabs and things. It's not on the paperwork. They said it was on the paperwork. I got the paperwork's not. So we're gonna reject it. No, by the way, since you pulled an owner's permit, since you you can't sell that for a year, that's not what the owner's says. Then talk to the county attorney before you start spouting

1:43:20nonsense like that off. That's not what it says, but he told him you can't sell it for a year. Because you improved it. You didn't improve it, you tore a coach down, you demolished it. Dear sweet Jesus. So we get the God syndrome. Nobody seems to be back in our home office that says that that can rein the mule back and say, look, whoa, whoa, whoa, you're outside your boundaries. If you have a problem with this as the inspector, then

1:43:50I'm going to override it, or I'll take it to a county attorney. See what you say. Now what does he do? Got to pull a permit. They call me. So what am I supposed to do now? I said, Well, I'm a contractor. I'll help you out. I'll charge you a dollar. So what's legal. Why do we have to do this? Why do we have to go w with with as busy as we are, why do we have to go out and check air conditioning? uh serial numbers to say, oh you bought this property and somebody else changed the unit

1:44:20out unbeknownst to you and now it's double permit fee. You didn't do anything. Well you're exactly right. It's it's it's funding a budget. I'm not stupid, but I didn't want to say it. But

1:44:32The point of that is that's like me going down buying a car and they sending me the speeding ticket from the previous owner. It's not it's not right. We really need to do a fundamental restructuring of what we're doing here. Other counties have done it with great success. We need to focus on what we are. I was a roofing contractor for thirteen years, commercial roofing. Look what we do.

1:45:00A builder I know, just builds, they do a framing inspection. Oh, we need to check to make sure that your roof sheathing is nailed off. They send a man out, a truck. Let's make sure that's nailed off. Well, that's a good idea. Let's get up and check it. Oh no, I'm not allowed to get up there and actually see it. So I'm gonna take this board and bump it from underneath. You have got to be kidding me for the love of Mike. What? You gotta do that. Then you gotta come back and have the dry-in inspected. Well,

1:45:30it's not done yet. Then you gotta come back and look at the edge metal for a four-inch spacing has to come in the truck, drive out there, get out and do that. None of that's in the code. We just invented that. Cause I guess we didn't have enough to do. We just want to aggravate people and that's all it does is aggravate them. Why would you hold that process up? You got a licensed contractor, Lynn, take the photos. Now they're saying you're not uploading enough photos. Well, how many is enough? Well, some say 40, some say

1:46:01six. Make up your mind. Why not take the affidavit from the contractor? If you feel he's done doing something wrong or something, then have the state's attorney look into it and take his license. But don't hold the rest of us up for what may be. One quarter of one tenth of one percent of people are doing wrong. So that's a lot of venting. There I got him.

1:46:27Uh Іт сфростін то сі майтаун. And I'm powerless to do anything. So I'm here tonight. And hopefully. I'll do anything I can to help them. I'll volunteer anytime. This is complicated. It's difficult. But we've got a lot of good people. Let the engineers do the engineering, stamp the plans, and stop arguing with them. They stamp the plans. Is that a licensed engineer? Yes, I'll validate that. That's my job

1:46:57as the official. Okay, none of that needs checking. It's validated. Now what's item next? En if we have these hiccups. Then let's get a three member t uh uh uh a help team we can pull together and we can get down and say, okay, look guys, let's all work together, let's get this guy's problem resolved. When we do that, people will start looking back up to us. I remember the days I can tell you all the building officials, you could walk into their office, sit down, talk to them. And they

1:47:27would have a reasonable explanation. Okay, let's do it. This, I understand that. Now you can't do that with a vast number of people you have. I understand that. But we could put a system in to help them. And we could stop beating up people for trying to do what is right and then punishing them for it. So that's all I have.

1:47:48Thank you very much.

1:47:51Well Jack, thank you for bringing that to us.

1:47:54My pleasure.

1:47:56Because I know for a fact when they first said that panel of three There's so many times out on the job that an inspector will say one thing and He'll turn it in as a r re issue and it stops progress. And in fact it is Nobody from there can Make that final decision so it takes days instead of a few minutes. And with a panel it'll take short period of time to do this. But

1:48:24So I got I got one from uh I I went back, you know, I don't I don't know what happened with this, but we have someone who is running for office. uh whose sister purchased a house a few months ago. This was sent to me in August. Um she purchased the house and after the purchase was completed she got a violation and a notice to appear in court. the house had an inspection violation. It wasn't there on the title search when she bought the house, but she bought it and

1:48:54apparently there was a open inspection violation. Turns out there was a garden structure in the back. that wasn't permitted. You know, probably one of those little Gazebo things? And so um an inspector was passing by And um and told her Um so she removed it. When she found out she had this violation, she removed it. So then they came by and they said, Oh, you removed it without a demolition permit. Another problem. So

1:49:25so it it was a it was not a cement structure, it was one of those, you know

1:49:29Yeah.

1:49:30Gazebo kit things. Um and now she has to go to court. Because Um it says so she yeah, so she had to go to court and I don't know what happened at court. Um But Some so they didn't. For me there's like something wrong in that process maybe. But um But uh County Administrator, we had a discussion on maybe some solutions and I see some of our You know, I I know. We

1:50:00got a We got some land use attorneys listening. and others listening to this discussion today. about some of our challenges. And and um we know our staff's working hard, but are we working smart?

1:50:17Well said. So I think we recognize there are there are a number of challenges that that have been with us for for quite some time. Um you know and I'll I'll even hearken back to uh you know our inability at one point to even get residential building permits out. You know, we're we're now Humming on that as far as you know getting residential permits out in like less than nine days for a single family house. And that's been a boon for us in terms of our growth. So we recognize as we move through things methodically that there are areas of improvement.

1:50:47Clearly, public safety and compliance with the code is is of utmost importance. importance. Uh you know, Sally and I have had discussions on what's what we need in there that needs that should be in there and what what is I think as as he calls it extra, right? You know, things that maybe maybe we don't need to You know, what are who are we protecting from what? And I think that's the fundamental question that we have to ask ourselves. I think we look at things from a public safety perspective. And if if that is The

1:51:18direction that the board wants us to look, we we certainly will consider if it's if it's a matter of public safety and strict adherence to the code, that is one thing. If we have ancillary things that perhaps over the years we've had bad experiences on that need to go, we certainly we certainly can look at at truncating those, you know, from where they exist. I I don't know. We we we have to peel that back. But clearly there's some good points. Um, you know, in my own personal experience, I I'm I've been hit or miss with a lot of these things, or in some areas where I've you

1:51:48know seen These make sense and in other areas there's things that that don't make sense. So uh not not in disagreement with you um on on some of those fronts. Um as far as disputes and resolution, non-binding boards, affidavits, th those are all tools that we can put in the toolbox. The ultimate the ultimate aim is is efficiency. I can tell you that we we definitely want it to be easier to do business in Basco County, and we're committed we're committed to working on that.

1:52:13I know. I have no doubt that each one of us are getting inundated with What is going on? Um and yeah, I mean in and y you weren't the county administrator, but one of my One of my uh issues that I dealt with was a a contractor here in the county and you guys don't know this because we have sunshine and um he has uh a company that builds Chick-fil-A's and McDonald's in seventeen states.

1:52:44He has a hundred Pasco County employees working for him and he has a twenty-five million dollar a year Chick-fil-A contract. that he was within three hours of losing. Абиказ Um try as he might, uh had an i there was one inspector he doesn't work for us anymore. um that when they were all done and ready to go, this was the Chick-fil-A in Trinity. He uh he came back he came back after he'd been there many times and found seventeen things wrong. that required four or five different kind

1:53:14of contact or subs to come back. and corporate was pulling the contract from this guy and he was desperate. So um we we did get that resolved and that gentleman doesn't work for us for any more. But I can tell you the sheriff just told me a horror story. This morning maybe? Of about uh an inspection that's going on that that they come out. And they say one thing And then they leave. And maybe you heard the same thing and they come back and they find and and they're not it's not all being given at at

1:53:44one time. It's one Then one. Then one, then one.

1:53:51doesn't end. And I thought we had kind of taken care of that, that You couldn't do that. Apparently that may be still continuing. Um But I know I know we're all working hard. But We got we got some challenges. Yeah.

1:54:06I'm now building a house. And I've had not had those issues with my house. And then everybody I tell that to Tells me oh it's 'cause you're a county commissioner. And they they w you won't have that problem. But I'm here to tell you. that what happens to my house and what what goes on is worked out and Planned and done the right way. And inspected the right way. And I expect, not because I'm a commissioner, I expect all our citizens in Pasco County

1:54:36to get that same service.

1:54:39So and if I may I I I appreciate you saying that and I Don't believe it is because you're a county administrator. I am sorry, a county commissioner. I I believe that Well, I mean we we conduct thousands thousands of permits every month. Thousands of permits. And if statistically, if I ran a factory and I had a reject rate of less than one percent, we're we're going to have issues. I think the question is is how do we resolve those issues? And we certainly are committed to resolving issues, and I know that our inspectors do a very good job in the field. Do we have issues of training? Do we have problems? Yes, absolutely.

1:55:10And we're committed to working on those, but I appreciate that.

1:55:13And so um part of part of what I'm saying in that is We have those issues at times all all over the county and all of our districts at times. And it may only be a few. But gosh, they happen at uh Worst time in the world because so it seems like it's way more than maybe what it is. But we need to not have any of those.

1:55:37Yeah. Um and I did learn of uh I just recently learned of a bottleneck in the stormwater Department. where we have one guy Who has a critical role apparently, um and there's only one person And so You know, and and we have Um, you know, we have these high priority projects going through. So they put it in front of him. And um and he works on it. And before he can go to the

1:56:07long list They put another priority one in front of him and there's one guy. So I I wish we had a system that if we knew that there w it and I I don't you know, I had hopes for a cella and I don't think it does Maybe

1:56:25it's not a good thing. You know at McDonald's if your order doesn't come out at in a certain time it starts going beep And it alerts you you got a an issue. And if there's a bottleneck Why aren't we I mean We we should we should know where the bottlenecks are and um we should be addressing those in my opinion.

1:56:45Yes, of course. And and bear in mind, of course, once you clear one bottleneck, you create another one, right? That's that's the the as you go through process uh process improvement and and efficiencies. That kind of morphs into some issues and I know you know I've we've spoken with Brantford and that that particular issue is is getting worked on. Um and site plans, MPUDs and those things. And again, I think Terry had kind of alluded to a few things on that front, some changes that I think are be implemented this week. that I think will will help on that on that front.

1:57:13And I didn't know if you want to share those with

1:57:16I would ask Terry to maybe come up and talk a little bit about it.

1:57:18Yeah.

1:57:20And Madam Chairman Mariano.

1:57:23Yeah.

1:57:23Okay. So um I'm gonna use an example. Well Ter Terry's gonna speak to us. Is this about what he's speaking to us about? Uh it's kinda what you went off

1:57:31of, but I can go after him. Okay. Go ahead, Terry.

1:57:37Uh good afternoon. Um Victorious Pitos, Planning and Development. So we are working on a number of initiatives in the Planning and Development Department to help us uh mitigate the workload that uh we've been experiencing uh the last few months. Um I guess I could start off by saying that. Um We're preparing a number of revisions. to the land development code. I I alluded to one this morning uh as it relates to making a strategic

1:58:07adjustment in what's causing MPUDs to be submitted. Um we are also looking at making some zoning changes. that will uh enable um certain development to happen without going to MPUD. For example, this morning I talked about the trip generation issue. That's not the only thing that's causing a lot of development to happen through and through the MPUD process. It's also lot sizes and developers seeking small lot sizes in particular. And the

1:58:37board met and discussed this issue extensively last winter and spring. On how to deal with 40 foot-wide lots, for example. And so the one amendment that we're working on still has to be vetted and taken through the whole process and whatnot, of course, but just as a preliminary discussion, is how do you enable small lot res single-family residential development to take place under Euclidean zoning standards? If you can address the chip generation and the

1:59:07lot size issue, you'll you'll narrow the the universe of applications that right now are compelled into the MPUD um process. And there's a few other things that we can be doing as well with regard to zoning updates. In terms of processing updates, there is an operational memorandum, a draft operational memorandum that has been circulated to a number of county departments

1:59:37and review agencies that are external to the county that participate in these reviews. Um M PD reviews. where we're informing them that um if if you're not on the short list, if you're not on the needed commentary list, um you can continue to receive distributions from the planning and development department, but you have forty-five days to give us your feedback. If you exceed those 45 days and have not given us the feedback, we will proceed with the review and

2:00:07continue on. Currently what's happening is there's an equal distribution to approximately 19 or 20 different entities. And um Then s planning and development staff. Distributes and then waits for comments to come in from all twenty different entities who are themselves burdened by whatever core activities that they're working on. Um forty-five days go by and we haven't typically received comments from everybody and so the wait continues and persists after

2:00:37that. Uh so by Telling everybody that you have forty five days and you're on the optional list and we're not going to uh wait for you anymore. We will have reduced the time frames Uh significantly on the distribution. So that that is currently being worked on. Um with the plan to issue such an operational memo. uh probably the beginning of November. Um In addition to that, we are working on a new conditions of approval template with area

2:01:08stakeholders. Uh for M P U D's Um we have done the internal work uh to identify what kind of conditions of approval need to be included on our templates. Uh now we're working with the land use attorneys, um, some of whom may be behind me so goals to hear at least. Um so we're working with area stakeholders to uh identify what's the best way that we can present the conditions of approval. um both to applicants and eventually

2:01:38to the Board of County Commissioners to staff and then to the Board of County Commissioners so that there is a smooth understanding of what's expected and also um you know, identify which conditions are negotiable and which are not uh negotiable.

2:01:56Um in addition to that there is there went out last week uh an operational memo uh in the Planning and Development Department streamlining the process for requesting legal services um from the county attorney's office. Um right now, well, the previous practice and this is a We're now in we're now into the new practice, but the previous practice um had a lot of pressure put on staff to identify what the dates are for when projects would get to public hearing.

2:02:27And staff would do their the best to anticipate when they could get a project to the LPA more to the Planning Commission, ultimately to the BCC. But often those would those uh deadlines or those uh dates, that date setting would uh fall short of what the county attorney's office needed in terms of review time. And so um this would also cause tremendous backlog and strain within the process itself. To get projects

2:02:57moving through the process. And so we issued a operational memo that streamlined that process to make it easier for staff to. Pull together their uh package of uh their staff report and all the amendments that are so or attachments that are associated with that. then the county attorney's office could do a good uh legal review over a complete package that could then be processed uh through civic clerk and whatnot and find their find its ways to the Planning Commission and and to the Board of County Commissioners. Um These

2:03:28are some of the process changes that we're we've been working on that'll help streamline and move projects a little bit more easily through through the system. In addition to that, we're pivoting a number of uh positions within the planning and development department to facilitate document processing activities because Um it uh uh these uh MPUDs, comprehensive plan amendments, um all the different types of projects that you see on your normal agendas. It takes a lot of time to compile all of these documents into the PDFs and into the attachments

2:03:58that you see on those agendas. And that those have to be done by the project planner or the project manager who's been working on this project for a number of weeks to months. And so um we're pivoting uh project coordinator positions and and and other non-planner positions to facilitate some of that work. So that the planners can actually focus on the substantive nature of the planning work. In addition to that, uh we've also entered into an outsourcing

2:04:29contract with uh Patel Green and Associates to help us on the site development review side of things, um, because we are also experiencing not only a unprecedented workload with MPUDs, but also an unprecedented workload. In site plan application review site plan review applications. Um and every landscape plans you name it, uh they're all high volume at the at this time. And so we're outsourcing a number of projects uh to our consultants to help us m uh mitigate that process. Um

2:04:59we're identifying relief employment opportunities to bring in relief workers. There's two current candidates that we're working on.

2:05:09as assets toward the MPUD um overload. Um and We're currently preparing the Planning and Development Department um to what what I've been sort of talking about as a surge in work activity to deal with the unprecedented workload uh and accelerate all the review activities that we're um asked to do. Uh this acceleration is going to include additional full-time employees, um which

2:05:39were we've we've worked with uh human resources to establish additional positions for uh MPUD review. For site plan review and for engineering review. um in addition to the relief workers and um working now to uh assess what we can do to extend the hours of operation of the planning and development department uh after hours and and on weekends. Um in that's in short, there's a lot of detail

2:06:09to be worked out still. Um but uh we're we're actively um working toward mitigating that backlog.

2:06:18So um uh uh on the landscaping problems that we've been having in And I know You have Sally, you've got a f format right now, but I I I met with I think Brad was in there and maybe Matt and Katie and w we were tossing around ideas and I think they have a meeting you have a meeting coming up November first. But and I'm talking about the commercial places that have let their landscaping die and go and Um and actually I've seen a

2:06:48few that have started putting it in in the area and it it looks great. But we were we we have come up with a solution that will take it away the responsibility, I think, out of the county staff and put the responsibility on the business who's let it fail, really. Um they have the onus t I think to show Um uh why they let it die and if and if they don't have the plans then they can follow our new plan. So we have something coming and I I don't know if you know about it yet, Sally, but I know I think November first do you have a meeting?

2:07:19With staff and I I hope this can go through. I talked to Dave Goldstein about it, and I know we may have to do some changes to the the code. Um but Um the idea is to be smarter about how we enforce that and not put the responsibility on us, but on them who let it die. So Um any did you have any

2:07:40comments? Yes, I just wanted to going back to an example that you had brought up and I feel that there's a resolution for every conflict and Speaking of backlog and different things like that, for example, if someone buys a pool from Walmart and puts it in their backyard, they're supposed to get a permit for that?

2:08:00You're talking about an above ground pool? Yes.

2:08:04Good afternoon, Commissioner Sally Sherman. Um Assistant County Administrator Development Services. If it's over a certain size, yes, ma'am, they are required to get a permit because you also have to ensure that it's secured so no child can wander in and get into that pool. So there are parameters for above ground pools. And then do they come out and inspect? What if a permit is

2:08:27pulled,

2:08:27yes ma'am?

2:08:28And it okay, so I'm not sure how many people actually know that they would have to pull a permit for a three foot pool, but A three foot

2:08:35pool?

2:08:37Um yes, I heard that someone was gonna get cited for having a three foot pool in their backyard. Um but if people don't know about the code, then they're not gonna go and they're not gonna pull a permit. And how many How many people go to Walmart and think that they need to pull a permit for a pool. And then in addition, if they have to, there's ways to streamline things. If you have to pull a permit with a pool, then maybe they have to have the permit attached to the box but when at

2:09:07the time of the sale and they fill out the paperwork at the time of the sale. But there's just ways that seem to they can definitely streamline Some of these processes. And that's just an example on working towards streamlining other processes.

2:09:23I have been making a series of notes based on on your feedback and thank you for that. Um and please know that we have a dedicated staff that's committed to process improvements and wanting to improve the processes. And I wish um I would have met, had an opportunity to speak with um Bob Corley. I wish I would have had an opportunity to speak with him because um I have been reaching out. Um first of all, you know, I want

2:09:53to first of all again acknowledge our staff because I don't want them to feel that they're not doing a good job because we have team members that work extremely hard just just just for inspections alone. and they're over they they've been running anywhere between thirteen hundred to two thousand inspections a day. We do have quick permits where you don't even have to do anything but go and apply for it online. We have streamlined a number of those where you just go in and do it.

2:10:23You can take a photo

2:10:24with your camera, right? Yeah. Submit. Everything of the pay for it, you're done. That's residential. Yes. And um so we are looking at things of that nature. Um with regard to inspectors. We have now we do training where we sit down, they have someone come in and provide training to for our inspectors. Now there is in the Florida Building Code a plethora of inspections. They list them out specifically what is

2:10:54required to be inspected. And so I'd like to meet with him and see where we're going wrong. I think Commissioner Starkey had mentioned some of the imp inspectors or team members, you know, we had that were seasoned. They were used to doing things a certain way and and and it's time. goes on, they understand that, you know They've changed. So we're committed to doing what we need to do to improve the process. Um and

2:11:25we recognize that there's a lot of challenges right now for commercial. When I came on board, I was told get residential building permits. process improved where people are not waiting 30 days for a home permit. We're like um Mr. Kabala indicated, we've got it down to nine days under the level of service in which the Tampa Bay Builders Association had asked us. Theirs is ten. We're down to nine with a change

2:11:55that the board voted in on the removal of the as built requirements. Once that is fully implemented, you're also going to continue to see additional redu deductions in in timeframes. So I appreciate this. We have it. Again, um I I'd be happy to sit down um and work with uh anybody who's interested in helping us improve the process. Like I say right now we're working on commercial. Commercial when

2:12:25I came on board and talked to our building official who came into the processes that we have. We know that there's some inherent problems and and now Um I anybody could go into my office right now and you'll see a stack of documents that's this thick, 24 by 24, where we're literally going through what is it that we're doing, because you can't improve if you don't understand what you have. So then working with that to improve the process and then getting our commercial permits

2:12:55online. So again, you can get that concurrent review. Now For commercial, you have to bring in three sets and we have to carry them around from person to person. So we're trying to get beyond that, and it is gonna take a couple of more months to get it done, but we're committed. But I'd love to um sit down and meet with anyone who has any um input that they can provide or even provide additional uh training to help us.

2:13:23That's right. So Sally, I appreciate you. When you first came here, I asked for a similar meeting with you. We had a similar meeting with a bunch of people. We talked about a whole bunch of different things. We never did a follow up meeting. A lot of things haven't changed. We brought in Roy Mazur, we brought in Matt Campbell. Uh Roy left out of frustration. Uh he did get the Osbuild thing done, which was great, but it's tough to change the culture that's in there. But sometimes because we have so many rules in place, like that fill ordinance was from people bringing fill in. It's

2:13:53still there and for that one little problem we had, it's affecting everything on our coast. Um When Terry's talking about he's got so much to do. that it's tough to get everything done. And I appreciate that. And you're talking to Brad, you know, about one MPD, well you can't move that MPD because you you got to affect another one. It shouldn't be that way. I shouldn't have someone submitting an MPUD and it taking five months to get all the comments back. It shouldn't take be a three week process from one to the other.

2:14:20Wait a minute, wait a minute. I have an M P U D. I had a meeting with the guy put in an M PUD. Who's waited five months hasn't got one comment yet?

2:14:27Okay. So it so now I had a small l I listen to this one. I had an M P U D Or a d a d uh a building to be built, site plan. in an industrial park. Right. In the industrial park he makes his comments, he gets like four pages back or so. Sits for months and months because he didn't do the zoning appropriate or something had to change with that. Uh he has submit again. The second time he submits, instead of getting four pages back of comments, he gets seven. Three of them were all about the landscaping code.

2:14:58They made him go out and advertise to all the abutting landowners. Now I'm not talking about the landowners outside the property. I'm talking about the people inside the park. For this guy to go build exactly what these people have are are out there as well. What we're doing, I think, the way Robert said it is we have so many things we're making these inspections happen that don't have to happen. We need to go back not to do to discount everything you just kinda went through, Terry, all your improvements? I mean I've got people right now That are doing all outside inspections, all

2:15:28outside engineer, et cetera, so they don't have to deal with us. So you've already got a whole bunch of people that already left us and are getting worked on the outside because they don't want to deal with us. We need to go simplify is what we gotta go do. And and by doing And I think maybe getting the that three panel committee together is like the first great thing we can do. Um I know Sally before you came here, Todd Bailey. was in permitting as a temporary person, he learned. And one of the things we learned with him and matter of fact, Sonya and Colleen and myself were uh doing

2:15:58view specs, we found out our staff didn't have the right equipment to go do the inspections. Taunt fixed that right away. We got that done. But I see the view specs from the things that we have have actually gone down since I'll say a gentleman named Dan Cumbrell left. He was the number one guy. But people would like to do it to make it easier for us and it's better for us to do instead of driving here and there to do everything by view specs. But as as Mr. Coning said The roof inspections? To go tap on that? I'm not gonna go on the roof. You know, people

2:16:28don't go up there? We gotta trust the contractors, we've got to put that out there so they're gonna be liable, which they will be. By by going forward, instead of us having to go do every minutia inspection, which we don't have to do. So I think we need to identify and I think Robert Coney would be a great person, maybe with a few other people. Let's go look at the things we need to inspect and get the ones we don't have to. When we're doing a site inspection, I mean a site plan approval. And uh again I think hopefully the MPDs we can get rid of these 'cause that was something that was supposed

2:16:58to be a help. It's been a big hindrance because I mean I'll go to the Nest Hockey thing for that, even being the M PD is crazy to me. Shouldn't have to go that way, but we have driven it. And I get some MPUDs. We improved one of them. Eight hundred units. And I don't even have a map of where the homes are gonna go. in front of us with the agenda item we get. It's crazy. So simplifies where we gotta go. I would like to see that And and Mike, thank you very much. I mean we talked about this uh about getting it done. So you're having the meeting and it wasn't to do anything more than just like

2:17:28we did with you. I wanted a full voice for people just to be able to talk. Without worrying about who's in the room, what are they gonna say, etcetera? With all that stuff, Mike, you took great notes and you just went through a bunch of them with us as well. That's the type of thing we need to go do. So I think with with maybe Todd with Mark Bellis and Mark, thank you for you know being at the meeting but watch it as well. Let's go look at what we really need these people work eighty hours a week, bringing an outside crew coming in. Let's go find out what we really need to go do, let it go, and if a contractor's not doing it right He can be civilly

2:17:58held anyway. Someone go after his license, you're not doing it right. But for that one quarter of one percent, as Bob says We shouldn't have all these rules in place.

2:18:07Jack um Jack. Um so I've just been asked to ask a question. Um do wait, let me get it right. Has the Acela system helped or hurt the current planning process in y'all's opinion.

2:18:22Commissioner Yeah. The Azella system has improved our process to a to a degree. Again, please keep in mind. My edict was to get the permitting process corrected. If you recall, the acceleration system has been up and running since 2016. When I came on board I learned that the process and the implementation of a cellar wasn't Done

2:18:55What do you think? Completely. Um there was a lot of loss of resources with people leaving. Um, I've even I'm still learning that there were tools that we were supposed to have in place, i.e., the tool that would help me pull the data. That is needed. That was never purchased. Right now we've worked with the company to get that ERD uh data um tool in place, things like that, it was never in place. We were working in

2:19:25two environments, a cellar one and a cellar two. I think your team knew that because if you wanted to check on something, it was dependent on what you were looking for, where you were supposed to look. Um I came to the board and I think I was hired in Night end of nineteen, I think by Uh twent January of twenty, I think it was, or uh around that time, I came and asked the board for some additional funding to correct some things in

2:19:55a cellar. You gave me those funds. We have now the entire cellar system for building permits for residential and all those quick permits that is operating. Perfectly. Then we're working on commercial. In the interim, we also understood that the system was not fully implemented for PDD engineering or utilities. Mr. Kapala in his prior position had came to me and said,

2:20:25Sally, we need to get the seller system up and running for engineering, because right now when they go and do an inspection, they have to literally send us an email and make a phone call because it was never put in place. Those are the things that we're working on. The tool itself, I was equally as frustrated when I came on board, but it's not the system. It was how it was implemented. That is the problem and those corrections are being made at this time. The team

2:20:56that was responsible for the implementation I don't think there was to my understanding and maybe you know if I'm wrong someone can correct me, they did not have um a clear understanding of who was in charge W who should they be doing things for and who should they listen to? We've corrected all of that. It's been fixed. Now we have a system in place where we can automatically get things taken care of. So

2:21:26I'm saying with you know, asking for your patience Because we can fix this. We can completely go on and finalize k getting things in place that should have been in place when it was implemented in twenty sixteen. So

2:21:39so

2:21:39I think

2:21:40um This board and I I probably the new commissioners that are coming on because I'm sure they heard what they've you know, I'm sure they've been t spoken to as well. is that, you know, the proof's gonna be in the pudding of how fast we're how efficient we are getting them out the door. Um Got a question. So yes, go ahead,

2:22:00Commissioner Oakley. This is not to Sally, I was to Terry. Terry, when are have you already put in the forty five days for comments back on uh M P U D?

2:22:09Yeah. Those forty-five days have been the rule. Well

2:22:13that's one comment

2:22:14should be coming in.

2:22:15Then how do how do we go how how was how do we go four and five months and still have no comments? Are we waiting on comments that you're not gonna get?

2:22:34Um what we're doing now is putting everybody on notice.

2:22:37Terry, just well just because of that.

2:22:39I don't I don't understand what

2:22:41this outer agency, whose rule is that that you have to have the outer agencies go do it? Instead of having it just internal. And what agenol was

2:22:49speaking up.

2:22:50It was uh well, I don't have the full list in front of you at the moment, do you have it? I I can bring it up once. So th that was the current practice that was being uh Whose

2:23:01rule is that is what I'm asking you.

2:23:06I think that is an administrative rule that was implemented. We're changing it now.

2:23:14That's where we need that's where we need to go.

2:23:16We make

2:23:17the rules. Let's go change the rules that are slowing everything down. I mean I've asked you guys for six months, eight months to get rid of the fill fill ordinance. Haven't got anything back. I've tried to get a simple thing in there to make sure that someone wants to build a seat while we stabilize it where it's three feet or go as high as five feet. Now Regional Plan Planning Council has actually brought something forward so we can get that adopted, but That's what we need to do. We can make the changes if it's our rules. We can't change Swift MUD rules, which by the way, I think we should take a close look at what we're

2:23:47inspecting. Right. Because if Swift MUD's doing stormwater,

2:23:50why

2:23:50am I doing it?

2:23:51Yeah, and I think we are looking at that. You know, we put that in the right-of-way. Let's not duplicate anything Swift Muds doing either.

2:23:56Right off the bat. Yeah, I I think I think we understand simplification. Yeah. I get it.

2:24:03Okay, that but the question for the question about Acela was on current planning, not the building permit stuff side. So is current planning using Acela?

2:24:12We are.

2:24:13But is that helpful for you?

2:24:15Uh I d I believe that the Acello system is helpful uh to help organize the workflow and to move things through the process. Um, but I think what Sally mentioned is important because

2:24:28Yeah.

2:24:28The implementation of a s of a cella initially when I f when I got here.

2:24:36Listen, I was about to jump in and said let's not beat up on the teams too hard, but We don't Don't go backwards anymore with Ocella. We know it's garbage. Let's just be honest. I mean I've heard it on numerous occasion from everybody out there, contractor wise. Andy tries to find stuff on there. It's it's like it's not I'm just being honest. It's it's I've heard too many complaints about it. I don't want to jump on you. I'm just telling you. Don't give us we don't want the history. I don't want to sit here for 20 minutes and let you talk about what happened with Acela and how

2:25:06we got to where we are today. Okay. The question was, is it helpful? Just say yes or no? Don't give an explanation to say yes or no. Because your explanation is way too long.

2:25:17Okay?

2:25:17Just say yes or no, please. Just say yes or no. Is it good or bad? Okay, there you go. Okay, so I just don't think we need uh here a twenty minute reason of why it's good and things like that. Just yes or no. The thing's terrible.

2:25:31All right. Well this is a good discussion. I do have a few things on my list. Um but I think we needed to have this discussion.

2:25:37Yeah.

2:25:37And and I'm glad we had it before you left, Commissioner Moore, so that you could, you know, listen and Participate. Um

2:25:44I also think that uh Terry's been working it very hard to make some of the stuff more than moving fast.

2:25:51Like I said, I just don't know we're

2:25:52working so much.

2:25:57Personalities, people, effort, etcetera. What we see and and Mr. Coning really just kinda laid out so good, like I gotta bring this forward. I've been waiting two weeks to make sure we had time for everybody to be here to see it and go through it. It's not a lamb base thing. This is something where let's go listen to an expert who's been doing it, who's watched this county from way back when. That's got a great historical knowledge of how we used to do things and what's been added in. So there's great potential in the in our people. I just want to give you guys put you in the right position to succeed. Because when you succeed

2:26:28We succeed. And our citizens are gonna be happier.

2:26:31And I

2:26:31don't don't think it's anything personal. Love you you guys. I think you're awesome. I really do. I just want to help you get in a better position

2:26:38to serve our people. If we can lessen the load on our staff by being just doing things a little smarter, it's better for them too. Better for all of us. So thanks all. That's that's kind of where we were. Um but do we have to vote on your item still? Was that continued? Or did we pass that one? one?

2:26:56Oh there

2:26:57You know the the funding for that That that was approved. Okay, good. All

2:27:04right,

2:27:04so Madam Chair, if I

2:27:06and maybe the county attorney can help. Um I think there was an item on the addendum as a consent. The addendum would have been proposed

2:27:14with

2:27:14consent. Okay, thank you.

2:27:16All right, great. I don't know if you have my photos uh from my cleanup, but so th I I just didn't get to show these the other day, so I wanna Um

2:27:26Um, this is a house that's next door to one of the ferals and um Um I want to thank Katie and Kelly Funk. We went out there and uh cleaned up that yard. And um sadly it looks like this again. And um she is going to court. You can't tell but that car Uh are these the only two photos that we have? So um yeah, here we are cleaning it all up. That car is filled with food. Like and it hasn't moved.

2:27:57That car there is filled with food and roaches. And uh is not operable, I think. So we're gonna work on that. But

2:28:05is the person there disabled or?

2:28:07She is mentally kinda Okay. No I gotcha. I gotcha. All with it.

2:28:14Is she set up with area agency on aging?

2:28:16Uh we've I think our staff one has gone out there a couple of times, so unless I'm not sure we we're gonna keep working on this, but she's got a court hearing next week. But the way we did it is that because we didn't have a place to stage, you can scroll to the cleanups. We didn't have a place to stage, and so I would just want to show you guys this because I think this worked really well, and I would ask utilities to see if our staff liked this option, is that they everyone placed their stuff out in front of their house. And um And

2:28:48And then the trucks came by and picked it up going down the street. And they actually had to go down each street a couple times because people people who weren't paying attention. Um they came home and everyone kept putting more stuff out. And it I thought that way worked out. really well and maybe we got more because how are they gonna move that down to the uh collection site? How do you move that busted um wave run you know, uh jet ski or whatever. So I I would suggest to you that this I thought

2:29:18this way the way we did it was very efficient. Did it get that

2:29:21that Jaguar? Did it grip it good and

2:29:26jaguar out there? This is Buena Vista and you know Holly Lake Estates kinda thing.

2:29:30Madam Chair?

2:29:31Yeah.

2:29:31Sometimes when this setup the benefits too you can actually separate the metals out You can g separate the paints out, um and tires out, etcetera. Uh but in in the some of the cleanings I've done we've had the grappling trucks did phenomenal job with when you had like a hoarder that had all sorts of trash and get it to the street, they'd come by and pick it up. So that type of thing I I think a combination of both still works.

2:29:51Well that's kind of a good idea. Yeah. So the neighborhood was just so appreciative. Um and again we got something like 34 tons, I think. Um I just wanted you to know on uh two things that FAC is working on. Um we aren't the only one that are struggling with the anonymous code complaints that that's that it went away. I have a constituent who called in. on his neighbor. His neighbor found out that he was the one who called him in and came over and beat

2:30:21him up and he got eighteen stitches in his face. Yeah. So um And because you know Because we're reactive, not proactive the neighborhoods are going downhill again. So um fact We're not every county wants to try and change this. Apparently this came about because we had a senator. who had someone call on him and he didn't like it, that he couldn't find out who did it, and so he changed it. So if we could all work with our legislators to say importantness is,

2:30:51to bring it back to anonymous Um that would be great. The other thing that we're working on FAC and at NACO. And now that we've taken over the jail and You particularly might be interested in this since this was your industry. Once someone his is um arrested and put in jail, they lose their health benefits. And what and and I'm talking about Medicare, Medicaid. and if they have government benefits and you know who gets to pick up that tab?

2:31:20We do. We do. And um and they l they can lose it for their family. And and then when they get out of jail, and that doesn't mean they've been they've been found guilty, they've just been charged, and when they get out, it takes quite a while apparently for them to get back on it. So this is this is a federal this is a a nationwide issue, but we need to really be working on this and helping NACO work on this.

2:31:47Yeah, Madam Clerk, that's a good point because um um you're right now that the county's taken over and whether it was under the sheriff's budget either way yeah it's our money either way still still taxpayer dollars yeah it's still taxpayer dollars but they you know they you contract out your prov whoever your provider is and Like you mentioned, when it comes to reimbursement, if the reimbursement But there's a No other reimbursement and w they don't take any type of insurance, Medicare, Medicaid, private insurance, whatever it may be, it's on our backs.

2:32:16Yeah.

2:32:17Wouldn't it make sense to actually be able to, yeah, have a provider in there that can or would or they don't lose their benefits to accept whether be like you said a private insurer insurer or a Medicare Medicaid. I mean W the taxpayer is already paying for Medicaid.

2:32:33Mm-hmm. So it it doesn't make any sense at all.

2:32:37Yeah, I I agree a thousand percent. So

2:32:39that

2:32:39looks like it sounds like something you can talk to your um DC lobbyist about.

2:32:42Yes, yes. Oh and I saw him last night. Um but yeah, and um this is something that Um is a nationwide issue and I think it we've really gotta push it, Jack. Yeah.

2:32:53Yeah, and Madam Chairman, you know our a lot of our homeless population has some big mental health issues or drug addiction issues, right? And they can't and they stopped doing it during COVID, bringing those guys to jail when they were like causing trouble, et cetera, just 'cause I didn't have any room to put 'em in between COVID and all. I I hope to go to the next opioid meeting. I was gonna go to this one that was scheduled but rescheduled. We've got a lot of money that's gonna be coming in. I think we can partner with the state. and build a facility to take those that have in mental health

2:33:23issues, drug addiction issues, and I mean it opioid the money coming in covers the families as well, not just the addicts, but those that get affected, we can help them. And I think there's a great opportunity out there, whether we build it near the jail or away from the jail, but an officer instead of having them take them right to the jail and like in they lose the benefits. We can then treat them, get them treatment ahead of time, get them to help in the need, maybe the You know, hand up. To to get 'em going in in a in a positive way as opposed to the way we're just doing it now where we're just fronting the load and

2:33:53and paying all the bills.

2:33:54It's

2:33:55bigger active to the

2:33:56facility. And I I kinda mentioned that to uh to um to Kathy and others. The same is the same idea. So um and but frankly I think that they should be in the some of the hot spots where Um we have a lot of opioid issues, which Holiday, Hudson, Zephyrhills. I keep 'em local.

2:34:16Yep.

2:34:17Um and and don't take 'em to the jail. Take 'em to one of these triage kind of centers and Um and you know, get 'em started there. So I agree. We have a lot of money coming in. That's a suggestion we can. Okay,

2:34:30Madam Chair. Yeah. Um speaking of that and speaking, I'm going to bring up the Marchman Act as well, along with the Baker Act, because a lot of these times, even if a law enforcement officer is marchman acting someone, they'll drop them off at the um hospital, and instead of following through and then bringing them to the treatment facility to be marchman acted, the hospital is now releasing them. So I think it's really important that we because otherwise it's just a revolving door. And then also pertaining to the jail, I feel that once they get incarcerated,

2:35:00anyone with a mental health or a dis under eighteen, over sixty five, pregnant, disabled, or with a kid, and if they're getting arrested and they most likely have if eighty five percent of people are being arrested due to drugs, then the majority of them have mental health concerns. They should be qualifying for disability and they should be getting um Medicaid, qualifying for Medicaid benefits while they are incarcerated and up to probably thirty to sixty or ninety days for behind being released. So they can follow up. Because also

2:35:31if we can put people or if there are inmates that are incarcerated and they're on medications, there's no follow through once they're released. I know they tried to work on a system, but if they're on medication every day and they're stabilized in the jail system Mm. Once they're released, they no longer have access to their medication and then they're relapsing and then turning to other drugs and self-medicating. So I think it's really important that once they're incarcerated. They're getting the medications that they need, they get a prescription for that medication upon release, and

2:36:01then they can follow up with the doctor, but if they don't have Medicaid, then they can't follow up with the doctor. And then they're again back to no falter.

2:36:09Okay. Um was there something else I was gonna say on that? All right, um one more thing. Um and this has to do with surplus housing and affordabil uh affordability. Um or surplus lots. We're working on a plan here so so that when we surplus lots. that before they we put 'em out on the market for sale, we make sure They are given uh to um non profits or for profits, I don't care, as long as

2:36:39they're building affordable housing. And apparently we thought we were doing that, but we weren't. So um so they are working on this list and I I don't know if that's something you have to bring to us. Um I know we talked about you being able to do some by administrative right.

2:36:55Yeah, so I think I think we've tightened that up a little bit. I think it's kind of happened, but maybe not as streamlined or as strictly as we would like it to be, but Uh yeah, we understand that.

2:37:06Okay. Yeah.

2:37:07And actually if before we adjourn, I I see our media relations team is here. I know they would really appreciate a photo op with the board with their teles, if that's okay.