PC7 special exception for private school or gymnastic training

56:04Yeah, P C seven.

56:10What's the?

56:13Good afternoon. Amy Tall with Planning Development and Economic Growth.

56:19Give a moment for the PowerPoint to get be loaded. To get loaded.

56:37Today you're hearing PDE 25-7862. It's a special exception for a special special exception request for a private school or gymnastic training facility in an AR agricultural residential district. This is located within the Odessa Town Center Plan Development. So the proposal is a special exception request. The request, as stated before, is to allow for a private school gymnastic training facility. Subject

57:07site is located within an AR agricultural zoning district, our agriculture residential zoning district, and a future land use of PD plan development. It is also within the Odessa Town Center sub-area. Policy. The facility is expected or requesting to be a 31,500 square foot private school private school facility to allow for or serve approximately 1,400 students. It is located on the northwest corner of the intersection of Old Gun Highway and Interlakin Road.

57:38Here's a general location for the subject site located within the South Market area and the urban service area.

57:47your context map to highlight what's in proximity of the uh proposed special exception.

57:54Your aerial view of the proposed site.

58:00The zoning is currently AR.

58:05Oh I'm sorry, but that was backwards. The future land use is currently P D and the zoning is currently AR.

58:14So the project overview subject site contains currently a single mobile or manufactured home on approximately two acres. The access to the property is from Old Gun Highway, a county-maintained local road and approximately 60 feet of right-of-way, as well as Interlakin' Road, a county-maintained collector road with 70 feet of right-of-way.

58:36We have added recommended conditions for the special exception, so I will read through them. At time of preliminary development plan and/or preliminary site plan, the owner applicant shall provide a parking study to determine the required parking based on similar gymnastics facilities in Florida since the LDC does not have a required parking ratio for this training, this type of training facility. Uh the hours of operation will be limited to Monday through Thursday from 9 a.m. to 9 PM and Friday

59:06through Sunday from 9 a.m. to 10 PM. The owner applicant shall provide cross access to the parcel to the west and north.

59:16And then at time of preliminary development plan and or preliminary site plan, the owner applicant shall provide a sidewalk along the project's old gun highway frontage, which shall be a minimum of five feet in width. And at time of preliminary development plan and or preliminary site plan, the owner applicant shall provide a six-foot minimum to an eight-foot maximum with any combination of an opaque fence, no wood or chain link, wall, berm,

59:47or hedge, with plantings of one to five linear feet along the north and west property line within the required. Buffer.

59:57And this is the proposed conceptual plan. Parking situated along the frontage with the use set back to the rear.

1:00:07And we have uh the required standards as part of the special exception that the proposal is consistent with and meets uh LDC section 402.4F.

1:00:20And with that, we recommend approval of conditions from planning development and economic growth. And be happy to answer any questions you may have.

1:00:27Can you just go back to the slide on that? uh hours of operation.

1:00:36Nine to nine.

1:00:41Okay, any questions for you?

1:00:44I have a question. As far as the parking, I I guess they would have some meets there at some point, like a gym

1:00:51Possibly.

1:00:52Would there be any overflow parking, because I know from just from other sports the parents are all coming in.

1:00:59Sure. Anything like that. At this point in time we haven't considered overflow parking, um, but we could bring up the applicant and have that discussion see if

1:01:08we're going to do that. Since they have to do a parking study at site plan approval I would

1:01:13gymnastics facilities that presumably would have similar events.

1:01:16Yeah.

1:01:16So I think that's why staff impose that condition is because gymnastics facilities do typically have a lot of parking and so they wanted to make sure that the parking is sufficient to accommodate this kind of events. Okay. That's fine, thank you.

1:01:30Exa I mean I have a similar concern with this location. I mean it's right next to with the interlocking right there and being a main road. I mean there's gonna be overflow parking. I mean there's almost an identical size gym around the corner. That gym is sufficiently underparked. And it has almost the same number of parking spaces as shown on their concept plan.

1:01:49Gotcha.

1:01:50Um So I mean we just need to be careful on that one because that's parking's gonna be a problem.

1:01:56Okay, understood Right. Okay. Thank you. Anything else?

1:02:03Okay.

1:02:09All right, is the applicant present?

1:02:13Any people here to speak about it? Any objections?

1:02:17No, thank you. Shelley Johnson, sixty four hundred Madison Street and I have been sworn. Um I know we have a couple people that here that do want to speak, but we're good with all of the conditions of approval and the staff's recommendation and I'm here with my team to answer any questions that you all may have.

1:02:30Okay. uh parking issues.

1:02:33Yeah, and that is something that that's why that condition's in there. Um because I think you know Mike Razor who our s is our traffic engineer is going to do a parking study when we get to that point in the process to make sure that you know we're complying with whatever the needs are and obviously if there's a need for a variation they're gonna have to get the alt standard to to get that approved. So um you know if it happens it happens. If it doesn't it doesn't but Unless they you know reduce the

1:02:56score quality. There wouldn't be a variation because the condition says we don't currently have a standard for gymnastics disabilities. So

1:03:04Correct.

1:03:04It's whatever the study says you're required to do is what you're required to do.

1:03:08Okay, yeah. So yeah, they would have to do the study in order to not comply with the code, obviously. So Or whatever they decide the code is at the dime.

1:03:20Okay, um anyone who'd like to speak on this one? Uh please come forward. Just state your name and address please and Let us know what your concerns are.

1:03:35Jim Speivey, address one three four oh nine Interlaken and Old Gun Highway. Uh my understanding, where's the stormwater is going off the site? Is it going off site or is there a retention pond? And that size of a building, what I understand the parking, it has to be anywhere from 107 to 170 parking. I just don't see that being efficient there. I mean, I think that's a good thing You're talking uh what a 31,000 square foot building.

1:04:06and then a hundred to a hundred and seven parking spots for that lot in the retenti and are they taking any more right away on Old Guy Highway?

1:04:17Yeah, I th those are the th some of the things that we're just questioning ourselves about the number of parking spaces

1:04:30But

1:04:31to the general point it doesn't show any stormwater retention either.

1:04:36Yeah,

1:04:36so w those are concerns

1:04:37we have. Yeah. Both of those things.

1:04:41I have with it. I I mean I'm not trying to stop development. I'm in construction myself, but it was just Yeah. understanding the the parking and old gun highway, are they paving any of that or is it gonna stay I've been down dirt roads better than that road. I mean the traffic is gonna come off of O fifty four, down gun highway, past where Lowe's is at. Or is it all gonna and then it's gonna come down off of Gun Highway and interlack it. Yeah.

1:05:08David, isn't there a condition?

1:05:10Yeah, there's a condition um. Or there's a requirement. I guess it's mentioned in finding

1:05:20Uh fourteen that says they've got to cons reconstruct Hold gun highway to

1:05:29From to meet minimum county standards from interlock and From their access point interlocking.

1:05:35Okay, you're gonna have an entrance off of Interlakin and off of Gun Highway?

1:05:40Yes, and they have to reconstruct it from their entrance to interlocking is what the finding fourteen says.

1:05:46Yeah, and then there'll be a process where they have to Go through to get their number of parking approved and also their drainage. So that's all that's all gonna happen to be that way.

1:06:00The concept plan is only a concept plan. It's not They're gonna have a

1:06:04final plan.

1:06:04They're gonna have to provide whatever parking and stormwater the code requires. If they can't put it on their site, they're either gonna have to enter into an agreement with Lowe's or build a parking structure or whatever it is that they gotta do to make sure they've got adequate parking. Right.

1:06:19Or

1:06:19reduce the size of the building. Or reduce the size of the building.

1:06:24But in theory they could build a parking deck. If they really had to. That's it.

1:06:29Yeah, but they still have to provide for parking and they st have to provide for storm drainage. So I mean, like Like uh David was saying, the the concept plan we had to have is just a concept. It's not a it's not an approved plan.

1:06:42Okay. There's also vacant land around them, so in theory they could buy that land for parking as well. Right.

1:06:50But The study's gonna say what they what what parking they have to provide and they're gonna have to provide it. So

1:06:58Well, I mean, if it's gonna be gymnastics or whatever, I'm sure they're gonna be having Tournaments there or whatever for um you know it's

1:07:06gonna be quite a bit of traffic. Right. That's why the condition requires them to look at similar gymnastics facilities in the area to determine the required parking.

1:07:14Okay. I understand. That's

1:07:16right.

1:07:17All right. Thank you.

1:07:17Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

1:07:20The next individual we have signed up for comment on this item is Ricky Miller.

1:07:28Mr. Miller, if you just give me your full name and address.

1:07:31I'm Ricky Miller. I live uh [address removed]. which is uh across the street uh gun highway from this project. I uh have two things I wanna iterate. One is about the retention point. This size of building has quite a bit of water. Runoff. which has to be addressed, I'm sure. Um That's

1:08:02not been Other than what y'all mentioned. As far as the plans there's been nothing that we can find. on this problem. But 'cause I don't want Mister Spive here myself to accept the excess water like they did in Mr. Heat. Uh the other one is the road on Gun Highway. Between uh inner Lake and then where

1:08:32the old project was from Oh yeah. Lowe's. uh is one lane. And barely. Uh Uh what would you say? Upkeep on it has been not of the greatest of S's. Um So if you travel down this road You have to go to the right away to pass somebody. And if

1:09:02this is not correct if someone has really gone together. Hard. Mm-hmm. because there's blind spot comin' in on inner lake and And the people cannot see it. What's coming up on the highway. Uh The other thing was uh I forgot what it was. Oh, that's okay.

1:09:26We got a minute.

1:09:27But

1:09:28let me just uh touch base with uh heart County Attorney on the on the road. That's the is that the road he's talking about, David, that's gonna have to be uh done to county specs.

1:09:40So if you look at the concept plan, the The road that we're talking about is on the east side of the project, it's called O Gun Highway and it The c the finding requires them to reconstructed to County Standards from that entrance they're showing on Gun Highway. South Interlocken. That's the part they'd have to build. North of that point. They don't really connect to that part. So Um I thought that Lowe's had made

1:10:10some improvements to that road or I I don't I'm a I'm asking staff. I thought they had

1:10:18But did you understand what he said about the

1:10:20Nick, you want to stand

1:10:21up and say that? You understand that one? Did you understand the part of what he talked about about the part that would be improved?

1:10:30Well that would be the other thing, because I've taken my grandchildren to these facilities. And they park everywhere and anywhere. Right. And it's gonna be if it's one lane it's gonna cause a a problem somewhere down the line, I'm sure. And uh this is what our we're concerned about. Right. So

1:10:55we have the county engineer here so we'll ask him the question.

1:10:58Yeah, he uh supposedly he uh Done a road count. and in the middle of the day and uh i since the load's been put in, they They uh I think they really need a accurate a bipartisan uh count on that particular road. because the it has increased Tenfold. Mm-hmm. So uh That's why that's w my concern.

1:11:26Okay. Thank you.

1:11:30So if somebody gun staff could clarify what Low was was Or Patrick, do you know what Anybody know what Lowe's was required

1:11:38to do on that road? Good afternoon. Nick Duran, County Engineer. I love those glasses, by the way. You can borrow 'em.

1:11:47Um Lowe's reconstructed Old Gun Highway from State Road 54 to the southern end of their detention pond. So they did not go all the way to Interlochen. It is a dirt road from their southern terminus to um to Interlocken. So I guess if

1:12:02this

1:12:02project has to reconstruct it from their engines to interlock it, there might still be a patch of dirt.

1:12:11Drainage pond for the lows. And and the premise behind that is by not obligating this property to construct the rest of Old Gun Highway, is that they're proposing access from Interlocken. That they don't their their presumption is that their customers will not be coming from the north.

1:12:26And I think when when they go Request their access management that the driveway on Old Gun will actually get probably moved closer to the northern. property line. I don't know if you could put the site plan up on the screen so Nick can see that, but It's a corner parcel.

1:12:49So I think they'll end up having to pave and fix more of old gun than the easy thing. What this plan might show.

1:13:04Yeah, the site plan there somewhere.

1:13:08Oh.

1:13:11Yeah, just put if you show the concept plan I think Nick will probably agree that that driveway on Old Gun will actually move north. Since they're a corner parcel.

1:13:29I'm not asking you to approve his access today. I'm just saying in general in access management, we try to get those driveways as far away from the corners

1:13:36as we can.

1:13:45That's actually more of old gun that'll be a very good idea.

1:13:46Better circulation on site, better operations on the major roads. Yeah.

1:13:50Great. Thank you, Nick.

1:13:52So I do have a question for staff. Um

1:13:57I'm not sure who to answer it, but I'm not sure. W what is the purpose of the concept plan that is submitted with A special exception application. I don't think any of them are listening to me right now, so I'll wait to see you.

1:14:12Not you, Nick. Sorry. I'm asking Amy or David Ingall or anybody that can answer my question. I'm just trying to figure out the general purpose of a concept plan that is submitted with A special exception request because I understand the parking is still up in the air, but Do we have to accept them when no stone no stormwater plan shown on stormwater pond shown on them? I mean Well he could go underground.

1:14:37Well there's a lot of things that are required. They're required for cross access, for example. Doesn't there a condition that requires them a cross access? A tie in access connection to the north and to the west? It requires a sidewalk along Old Gun Highway. So I mean there's a lot of things that are required for the conditions that aren't shown on the concept plan. So I had a similar question.

1:14:55You would think that If the purpose of it is to show that hey I can at least fit this building on the site They should at least show some stormwater pond or some how they're gonna Even if it's not a fully engineered Plan, but I I'll let Mr. Ingle answer.

1:15:10Well th thank you. David Engel, Planning and Economic Development Director. So uh the concept site plan is not really typical of a special exception. It's just establishing the criteria for special exception. And our position is is that the building, whatever that footprint is at site plan, is not to exceed thirty-one thousand square feet.

1:15:36If it doesn't mean anything, why do we require it at all? I guess is my question.

1:15:41I don't do we require it any I d I don't have

1:15:44I mean Well at some point aren't you aren't you at some point the deviation from the concept becomes s so dramatic that it no longer resembles a concept. And so I I understand this is not an engineered plan and it's to give us an idea, but I think there's still a reason behind it. Like say for instance We were particular about having a certain amount of in fact I think one of the conditions addressed buffering and the type of buffering Mm making sure we understand where that falls

1:16:14and what we're buffering against if there are residences there that we're trying not to disturb. So there's clearly a purpose for the concept plan.

1:16:33way they can fit the special exception use on the site. Like that there's We're not we're not approving something that's just not feasible at all. That at least that's how it was described to me previously, but I

1:16:46Well, you know, uh uh as I've been told by engineers, there's an engineering solution for everything, but there's a cost. So obviously we talked about parking decks, uh underground stormwater storage, not to say that this is gonna take place. But um We wanted to be clear about buffering and road access on this project. So that's why we asked the plan to be produced.

1:17:12Okay. Well maybe Mr. Mooney's correct. I guess they could put Put it in underground stormwater and parking decks.

1:17:18And it illustrates the development footprint for this property. What they do inside that footprint has to be consistent with our land development code.

1:17:28Along those lines I have a question. David Goldstein, does the special exception exclude them from the building coverage requirements in the z that zoning category?

1:17:42Generally.

1:17:43The reason I'm asking that question is is in AR zoning district, which is his AR property, correct?

1:17:50Yes.

1:17:51There's a a building limit to no more than twenty five percent of the total lot area, which would be twenty one thousand and change.

1:18:00Good catch.

1:18:02So the way it's been explained to us, and I I think they set it out in the memo a little bit, is because it's in the Odessa Town Center Center overlay and that PD, the design standards, because part of that overlay is to try to encourage interconnectivity, you know, the live work play concept. And so those design standards in that overlay actually apply versus the AR design standards. standards. So the FAR is actually three point oh on this. So you're actually looking at potentially under the plan, the Odessa overlay, you

1:18:32could probably get a little over two hundred sixty one thousand on this little piece. Where in this instance we're just doing the thirty one five or below.

1:18:38Wait a we back up because there's a difference between F A R and F A R is F A R is the sum total of all All the floor area divided by this the site area, whereas coverage is the first floor area over the site area.

1:18:54My understanding is that the overlay standards are what apply. And

1:18:58I don't think the overlay standards addressed. The block coverage. Correct. Amy, do they?

1:19:05Uh Amy toll planning, development, economic growth, that's correct. Uh the lot coverage will be subject to the zoning district, but the far applies to the square footage.

1:19:13I apologize, I was wrong.

1:19:14So they could

1:19:16Mr. Gerardi's point, how how can we allow this square footage Well they'd have to do it in multiple stories.

1:19:23Correct. They could go vertical. Right. So they could still meet the twenty five percent lot coverage, but they would have to go vertical.

1:19:34Getting more expensive.

1:19:38I'll just put this out there. I looked at this when this came to us before it was continued and my first impression was good luck. I Been doing this a long time and I'll just say to put that size building on that size site. It's probably a long shot, but To Mr. Engels' point, if you got enough money you can engineer anything.

1:20:03Gymnastics is expensive. I can speak from experience.

1:20:10Maybe there's enough margin in it to cover the cost of that building the insurance for

1:20:18Okay. All right, come on up.

1:20:23Uh good afternoon. Michael Razor with Razor Transportation Consulting. Um Our firm prepared the substandard road application specific to the discussion regarding Old Gun Highway. Um as we have heard this afternoon, we're anticipating a couple of tweaks to the concept plan before it becomes the site plan. And at that time, in addition to the already known uh reconstruction of Gun Highway from old Gun Highway rather from interlock

1:20:53into the project driveway. We will be subject to another substandard road application at the time of site plan permitting, which will look at the specific uh plan in place at that time as submitted and if there are by code requirements for the gap between what Lowe's had done and what we're already know that we're required to do, those would come out of that phase of um of of permitting and approval. Thank you.

1:21:21Any questions for Mike? No.

1:21:23Okay.

1:21:26Well I'll I'll ask Mike, can I come back up? The eighty five parking spaces that are on here This concept plan now that's not based on any study you've done.

1:21:36I The first time I've really heard about the parking was today, other than knowing that we have the condition that indicates we're gonna need to do a parking study. Um and I'm familiar with how to do those parking studies and we'll go out and we'll study in coordination with staff with the methodology and identify what's needed for the site and propose that when we get to permitting.

1:21:58Okay. All right, thank you.

1:22:04Okay.

1:22:09Has everybody had a chance to speak?

1:22:13Okay, uh do you get your questions answered back there?

1:22:18All the way in the back. You got your questions answered?

1:22:24Yeah, there were you were both raising your hand earlier. Okay, thank you. All right. Having uh everybody spoken, um

1:22:37Mayor motion.

1:22:42I'll move to approve the item.

1:22:47I'll second.

1:22:48Have a motion and a second. Further discussion. If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Those like sign?

1:23:00Okay. Got a lot of work left to do on that one.

1:23:08Okay.