PDE-267596 Denton Avenue MPUD 832 homes commercial industrial

1:56:05Uh good afternoon, Planning Commission Gianna German. It is the next item on the agenda is item PC6. It's PDE 267596, a zoning amendment in the name of Denton Ave MPUD and Denton Ave Project LLC. It's a rezoning request from AC Agricultural District to MPU Master Plan Units Development District to allow for the development of 832 single-family detached units, 75,000 square feet of support card. Commercial and four hundred and forty thousand square feet of light industrial and associated infrastructure located in northeast

1:56:35Pasco County, approximately 1.5 miles east of the intersection of Denton Avenue and Little Road, containing approximately three three hundred and thirty-one point six acres presented by staff.

1:56:48All right, thank you.

1:56:52I just want to note before Will starts that I have an ex parte um communication um with the applicant and I'll be submitting the form.

1:57:03Thank you.

1:57:07William Vermillion, Planning Development, Economic Growth. There were some other expartates for Planning Commission members that were also submitted to the clerk's office after the publication.

1:57:18This is the Denton Avenue MP back before the Planning Commission continued. Um at the last Newport Ritchie hearing in April, PDE twenty six seventy five ninety seven. And to to make this a little bit more brief, since I know there's a lot of people here to speak, I'm gonna try to touch on the the revisions from last Planning commission is sort of a little bit of a Hitting you guys with the same details. Uh the location map within the county, the request, and the acreage from the applicant remains

1:57:49the same with the 832 single-family detached units, 75,000 square feet of commercial, 440,000 square feet of light industrial, and roughly 331.6 acres. This is on the south side. of Denton Avenue, just north of Kitten Trail, And uh the the county engineer, when he was briefly here for a couple of minutes, um, back during the uh that Euclidean rezoning, he was kind enough to remind me that Kitten Trail, um is being removed

1:58:19from the county's vision roadmap.

1:58:25Here's the location map. the little tooth of the property down to Kitten Trail. the existing zoning of A C and A R residential six and I L future land use, with uh some small pockets of res three on the teeth of the property there on the southern boundary. The overall contextual map here showing the proximity to the park. Showing the Bolton Avenue extension in the and the existing uh Denton

1:58:55Place MPUD. But more importantly, the the revisions post Planning Commission in April Uh the first of which of these revisions was to add an enhanced pedestrian crossing at Kitten Trail, Last time the residents spoke about um the difficulty there would be in getting from the pathway that the applicant is building to that in that little pocket parking between the residential to the sidewalk that exists on the south side.

1:59:28Uh actually it might be easier if I go to the binding concept plan. Okay. So that that little uh that southern pocket park there, that's the the multi-use path that Red dotted line, the ten foot multi-use path. Some of the residents last time um had concerns about how you would get from the end of that, to the actual infrastructure being built in Kenton Trail, adding the uh pedestrian crossing and flashers there on Kenton Trail for people to be able to cross.

1:59:55There's no moat automobile traffic going across there?

1:59:58No, sir. None none none north to south from Kitten into Denton. Right. Um The second thing that happened on the southern side and it will be reflected it's both reflected on this plan set as well as the binding exterior exterior landscape plan was the southern buffer along Kitten Trail was increased from twenty feet to forty feet along the back side of the seventy foot lots, that exist on the binding concept plan in orange. Um This was done in

2:00:29particular um About a year ago there was an MPUD called the Hudson Family Trail. um which had similar lot sizes and was actually within a rural character area within Pasco County. And both the Planning Commission and the Board and Planning Development Economic Growth staff found that those lots were consistent with the rural area with the inclusion of this 40-foot buffer, which is why the 40-foot number was chosen instead of the 20. So uh

2:00:57do I am I understanding that this is gonna be sorta heavily uh forested so that that forty foot buffer is difficult to see through.

2:01:07Yes sir.

2:01:09And then the the applicant does have the uh these illustrations of what the buffer would look like at mature stages. As well as the uh the exterior palette. But if I move back to the right-of-way

2:01:25at the immature

2:01:26stage? I believe the uh the applicant they had provided renderings a part of the landscaping exhibit package. I just didn't put them onto the slide to avoid six slides of uh landscaping. So I did include that in the packet to the Planning Commission where they show renderings from The town. Oh I think that's the

2:01:50Oh, well there's Miss Patty, she's walking up. Hopefully she can throw that up there for me. Uh so if you go into the agenda package my attachment that's on their binding landscape plan, if you download that and then scroll through a couple times, there's a a rendering that almost kind of looks like a drone shot that I think would be be easier to show. And then while while Patty's doing that, the last thing we did was there was some uh concerns About data centers being a part of that industrial area.

2:02:20So data centers are now a prohibited use within the industrial area as a part of this MPUD.

2:02:27And of course, all this was reflected on both the binding con or both the binding concept plan and the binding exterior landscape plan and the master plan. The sidewalk extension exhibit still exists as it was presented last time with the applicant. constructing the sidewalk on the northern side of Denton Avenue to facilitate pedestrian traffic to the existing Arthur Ingle Park.

2:02:52And I will I'll hold there until

2:03:00Show me which file.

2:03:39And before this comes up I think I'd like to correct myself a little bit. It might not show exactly what the trees look like at their most immature, which I think was the root of your question, but it does go to show a different perspective of the buffer in terms of a The elevation and renderings and scale.

2:04:30I'm gonna sweat through my suit up here.

2:04:32Any jokes? I

2:04:35don't know, I gotta d yeah, have to somebody bring me a napkin. Okay.

2:04:46Should be the last page.

2:04:55Oh the PDF is loading tremendously. There we go.

2:04:59Okay.

2:05:03Oh, actually it does. It shows at installation and at maturity. The top left there at installation and then at maturity in the top right.

2:05:18So they're all mostly n you know, typical Florida vegetation.

2:05:24It it's all Florida nat all Florida native is the uh the binding landscape as a part of this M Pvd.

2:05:35Yeah we've seen a lot of uh developments that have gone in. They have uh you know, two foot high plants and you know, that's not gonna be very helpful. So this is much better.

2:05:49And my um the last thing uh on the staff presentation for me to get through is the the variation requests. Um they're the same as the last time, but I'm gonna go through these again. Um The first being from nine oh one sixty eleven street design and dedication requirements. That is for the variation for the southern access point, um which would have been to Kitten Trail, Um That did not change. Um kitten trail Um lies to the south. The applicant opted not to put any vehicular trips

2:06:20onto Kitten Trail and provide two access places to Denton Avenue, which is consistent with Table nine oh one three A of the Land Development Code. And then from eight oh five six, the restrictions on post development wetlands and upper upland buffering the Applin request that the non residential um parcels be under single ownership they're not required to create the mandatory association for maintenance. This comes with a recommendation of approval to the Board of County

2:06:50Commissioners and I'm available for questions.

2:06:53Okay.

2:06:54Do we have any questions for uh William?

2:07:00Yeah. Gotta appreciate it. Off the hook easy.

2:07:05Okay, is the applicant present?

2:07:11Good afternoon again. Barbara Bullheight, sixty-three, twenty-seven, Grand Boulevard for the applicant.

2:07:19I'm gonna just briefly go through a few things that were in my prior PowerPoint because it's been a month, um, but try not to spend too much time on them because I know we wanna talk about other things. For our application, again, we're we're following the comprehensive plan that the board set on this property. eight hundred and six thirty two single family detached homes, sixty, seventy foot lots along the perimeter. No forties, no apartments, no towns, no villas, none of those things. One of the questions that came up during public comment the first time was about blending of density.

2:07:49We went back and checked our plan. In the res three acreage. Our units are twenty two point five units per acre in the Res 3 area of the property. In the Res 6 acreage, we have 3.4 units per acre. And yes, Mr. Moody, we took out the industrial. I did make a mistake when I did that calculation for you last time. The current lax land use designations allow a maximum 462 homes versus the 832 that we're we are requesting. That is significant. because you're

2:08:19a I'm asked, what are you doing? How are you being considerate? How are you working with your surroundings? That's what we're doing. We do m this is many layered things that we did here to be very thoughtful, but one of the things was things was not seeking fourteen hundred and sixty-two dwelling units, even though that's what the land use would allow. We have the advanced um landscaping plan. See if there's anything interesting here that that um Will hasn't already gone over. Changes

2:08:50made during neighborhood meeting. We did have neighborhood meetings. We had four of those as we'll recall. We after the neighborhood meetings or during them we did the grading plan. I mean I think when we're asking about that landscaping, what's really significant is here is we are required to keep along our perimeter all of the existing vegetation that exists today. And then we are mandating, requiring that we actually enhance that landscaping. Along our adjacencies we have What we're required to do is a type A buffer, the most minimal buffer

2:09:20there is in the code, which is where the code's saying that our use and the adjacent uses are are compatible with a type A butt buffer. But w we didn't even do a type B buffer, we did a p type B buffer on steroids 'cause A we're We're going to keep all the existing l legislation because we did the grading plan. The client spent the money and the time to do that. He knows that he doesn't need to grade to the property line and he can keep the grading out of these buffers and keep the natural vegetation in there and then supplement that vegetation and

2:09:51plantings. We worked hard on the conditions regarding that passive park on the south side. We had a lot of requests, you know, when we talked to our neighbors and and Robert Melson, representative of the property, actually met with them in their homes about what could go on in that park and what couldn't. They wanted it to stay natural, they wanted to stay the vegetation to stay like it was, is today, and they wanted no um they want everything passive, nothing active. And so basically what we're gonna do down in there is keep it natural and

2:10:21and meander our our trail down there to kitten.

2:10:27We changed the kitten trail lots when we went into the neighborhood meetings. There were sixty foot lots coming out of the neighborhood meetings. Again, we're trying to work and and and it's a balance here between the property owners that live out there and this property's rights as well. The other thing that we did during the neighborhood meetings is the client agreed to single stone story homes along the perimeter. So the question did come up about Landscaping when it's put in, landscaping at maturity. Well, another thing that we did was limited to one-story homes.

2:10:59This is just to show where that passive park is, a lot of detail in the con in the conditions of approval about what can can and can't happen there as a result of our direct conversations with our neighbors.

2:11:14Nothing here that you haven't already heard, just the changes we made after neighborhood meetings. Um Will showed you the offsite path again being what what we're trying to do is look at what's going on around us. That's a significant improvement because right now the folks in Summer Chase, if they want to walk to the park, they walk along their front frontage in a sidewalk, on a sidewalk, and then they walk in the dirt. to get to the park. Same thing Denton plays folks. They'll walk in the dirt until they get to our new sidewalk and then they'll be able to pick up our sidewalk

2:11:44because that project wasn't required to do anything and didn't agree to do anything. So those folks will walk in the dirt until they get to our sidewalk that we're doing. They'll take them all the way to the park. The other thing that's significant about that is that right now, anybody that's on kitten trail, that if they want to go to the park, there's no easy ingress and egress to that park, they'll be able to come through our trail, up our our multi use path, across Denton with an enhanced um safety crossing And to the park on a sidewalk all the way to the park.

2:12:17That's a significant change. Wes pardon me

2:12:20is a ten foot wide sidewalk? Ten

2:12:22yes. Yes.

2:12:24That's that's larger than usual too.

2:12:26Yes. So those are just things that we did again to be thoughtful of how we put this project together. We we know there was obviously concerns about it. So those are just a highlight of what we did after the Planning Commission. We went at it again. And and specifically what we did was I really felt like the question in the mind of the Planning Commission members if I could crawl in your mind and based upon what you said was compatibility. I told you about all the things we've done in this project and how this project's been thoughtfully laid out, but I didn't give you any context.

2:12:57How is it compatible? Why is it compatible? How does it compare to other projects? So what we did was we put together this consistency analysis, compatibility analysis, really looking at what does compatibility mean under the code. And Looking at other projects because I think the best you can do to determine what's compatible is see what you all have recommended as compatible, what staff has recommended as compatible, and what the boards found is compatible. So after doing that analysis of all these projects, that's what

2:13:27led us to what Will had explained to you was enhancing that buffer to 40 to 40 feet along those kitten trail lots where there was just a lot of comments and a lot of concern from the kitten trail residents about lot compatibility. So we looked at Hudson Family Trail MPUD, which as Will explained is in the rural character area and said, well if this property or our neighboring property was in the rural character area, what could we do and to be compatible? Um what more could we do to be compatible? And

2:13:58so we use that forty feet. But in in Hudson Family Trail, that forty feet's an undisturbed buffer, so it just stays like it is. We are undisturbed and enhanced. And forty feet. For example, when you have a type A buffer, no fence required. our conditions require offense. We um added the kitten trail bike pedestrian crossing, the enhanced crossing as requested by the Planning Commission. We updated our MPD plan. It wasn't very clear

2:14:28that we have two functional accesses to Denton, so we just cleaned that up. We updated our enhanced landscape plan and our binding concept plan to be consistent. And staff I has made the decision and we've advocated this for a long time af actually on behalf of all these residents that kitten come off the Vision Road. We are the ones that are that put Bolton through our property, not required, because today it's not a Vision Road. Not required to dedicate any right-of-way for that, not required to put that bisecting our road. But we are the ones that started

2:14:58the Bolton should be the vision road. It's a more appropriate vision road. And we did that in our project and the staff has Apparently. looked at it as well and agree that Bolton should be the vision road and not kitten. Long term impact for those residents is that it'll no longer be when that's adopted by the board, it'll no longer be that that Kitten is the future where where traffic is supposed to to be grow and more traffic and vision road standards and potentially improvements in the future. So I'm

2:15:28glad what we started with regard to our project is now following through with the staff removing kitten from the vision road. With regard to the compatibility analysis that we did, a couple highlights of of this and um I made copies of it because I I thought it was just really good work and we printed out bigger copies of the of the plan so you could see. But when you look at the standard of what we have to do under the code to meet the criteria to be approved and

2:15:59recommended for approval. We have to demonstrate transit that we transition appropriately to adjacent lots. Or That's what the code says. We effectively shield adjacent uses in the absence of LOT or use compatibility. This code actually says That if even if we didn't achieve lot or use compatibility, as long as we effectively shielded adjacent uses. We get approved. But we didn't do that. We didn't look at the Denton Place and say, Well everybody recommended approval of Denton Place to our

2:16:29north and our west with forty foot lots and a fifteen foot type A buffer. Up against lots that are

2:16:375.8 acres, 2.89 acres. We didn't say, well, if that's what y'all approved is compatible, recommended approval is compatible, and the board approved, that's what we should only have to do. We're much more thoughtful than that. We were asked to be more thoughtful than that. And we have been more thoughtful than that. Forty foot buffer. Enhanced buffer. um as well as maintain the existing vegetation. So we achieved use compatibility because it's residential residential. This whole all

2:17:08this analysis shows you that we're we're c more than compatible on a lot on a lot basis. For example, Palm Wind, MPUD, both the Planning Commission and the Board found that 40-foot lots with a 10-foot code compliant type A buffer was compatible with a seven-acre adjacent lot, a four-acre adjacent lot, two-acre adjacent lots. Same thing with 50 foot lots. So That's why I wanted to lay this out, because I really wanted to give you guys context of what does compatibility mean under the code, what is our requirement to demonstrate

2:17:38to be found compatible, and how we more than meet the requirements for compatibility under both your code and what's been approved as compatible. Um I think we've done a pretty good job of explaining our enhanced buffer. If you have any questions up regarding that, we certainly can go through that. You know it Where you normally would have one row of evergreen shrub shrubs, we have two and they're six feet, we plant 'em at six feet. So I mean just again and again and again thoughtful presentation of how we bring this forward brought this back to you all um and

2:18:09trying to make sure you had the information that you needed to make a decision today.

2:18:13Do you have

2:18:17an aerial or anything in Hudson Family Trail.

2:18:20We do. It's in it's in here. Yeah, it's um it's sheet number two. On your bigger sheets?

2:18:32Should we do a motion to receive and file?

2:18:34Well that would be fabulous.

2:18:36Motion to receive and file. All in favor?

2:18:40Aye.

2:18:41Aye.

2:18:41Opposed?

2:18:47And then within your Hudson Family Trails also within your consistency analogy compatibility app page.

2:18:56Is it possible to put this up on the screen?

2:19:02What page is it? Harbor.

2:19:05It's page nine of your consistent of the compatibility analysis.

2:19:22Oh, I see it, yeah.

2:20:03While we're waiting for that to come up, I did want to mention that we also looked at Summer Chase, which is to the north of side of Denton, just east of here. Summer Chase is approved for it's an R4 zoning district, 60-foot lots were found consistent next to 12.2 12.92 acres, 6.51 acres. right in this area 'cause I do know some of the projects along Hudson is along Hudson, so I want to make sure that you could see what was approved along Denton in this area as well.

2:20:33Do we have an aerial photograph of Hudson family trail?

2:20:41Electronically, I guess you're looking for?

2:20:44Well street.

2:20:46On the screen?

2:20:46No. No. She's uh he's asking for it on the screen. Pasco Mapper.

2:20:52Yeah, you can get a Pasco mapper. How about that? Offer the appraiser.

2:21:27No, a aerial of the property.

2:21:31You just want Pasco Mapper, it sounds like

2:21:34that.

2:21:37Family trail on Hudson Avenue.

2:21:40Here, let me give you a parcel ID number. Two seven, two four, one seven, Zero zero one zero zero zero zero zero zero one one six zero. That's just a lot in that subdivision, but that'll get you there.

2:21:57Thank you.

2:22:11Well, I'm not sure what's going on here, but

2:22:16Wait. that I'm trying to make Since we can't get a good aerial photograph, this is what the site looks like pre-developed. It's a forest. Okay. Undisturbed is I left the trees there. I didn't cut those trees down. I'm not supposed to cut those trees down. When I look at The applicant's property. There's no forest there to save. There's a difference, right?

2:22:46Mm-hmm.

2:22:47There this was supposed to be an undisturbed buffer that's a forest. There's no trees there today on the applicant's property, so it's undisturbed. What I'm undisturbing a hayfield? Yeah. Right. And I'm gonna plant a buffer of two inch diameter trees and eighteen inch high bushes.

2:23:07And it'll take 20 or 30 years before that buffer is meaningful. Just the point I'm trying to get to.

2:23:17And that's why we exceeded. We we are not in the Burrow character area. And that's why we looked at other projects to make sure that we were exceeding What was found compatible? So again, if you look at Den Place on the north side of us, you've got forty foot lots. 10 15 foot type A buffer, that's it. You look at you look at Summer Chase. North side of Denton. To our east. Sixty foot lots.

2:23:46I understand

2:23:47you're

2:23:47fifteen twenty foot buffer. So what we're doing is exceeding all of that.

2:23:55Palm winds. Sacklon. They're all in there. We could have just brought you a dent and place project and said, you know, it was because dent and place was approved you all found a consistent Compatible, the board found it compatible, it's been approved, it's under construction. That's that's the standard we have to follow. But we didn't do that.

2:24:16as if there's an automatic determination of compatibility.

2:24:24I would say if there was, then we would have no need to be here having a public hearing.

2:24:32Well I don't believe that to be the case. I think there's a I think you have to show compatibility, but What I'm saying. based upon my thirty two years of doing this, is that if it's if you f can sh show what's been found to be compatible. the issue that w we've been talking about is lot size to lot size. The concern of our lot sizes versus our neighbors' lot sizes, existing homes. And that's what the analysis looks at is what has been found compatible in similar situations. So

2:25:04To me, that is how you determine compatibility, and you do look at it, and we've analyzed it and we've given you that information.

2:25:11Okay, I agree.

2:25:18I do have a question. Um last time we were here, last month, um and Chris Poole and Derek Bontlins aren't here, but I remember when we were talking about the continuum, um there was conversation on emergency access. They understood that I won't put words in your mouth, but it might not be appropriate to have the full access on kitten. I totally understand that. But there was some discussion on having emergency access. I was wondering if

2:25:48there was further discussion on that or what thinking was.

2:25:52So we have not requested emergency access. It's it's up to Because of our meetings with our neighbors. they asked us not to have any access, other than bike ped. Um so we're followed through with that. So we have requested a variation to not have any access. ultimately up to the Planning Commission what you want to recommend on that issue. On the board. I can tell you when we did Sackleson it was the same issue. And I looked back last night to remind myself of what happened on

2:26:23Sackelson to Foxfire Drive. Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, the board made sure there's no access ever to Foxfire Drive from Sackleson. So that's what they did from a policy standpoint when this issue presented them very similarly in Sackleson. On Fox Fire too our project relative to kitten. So We're gonna follow whatever the board wants to do and whatever you all recommend only to the board, we're not gonna make a change. If you recommend that we're not gonna make a change before the board 'cause we're gonna stay consistent with what we told those neighbors, because there's neighbors that

2:26:53aren't here today. that came to those neighbor meetings. So we're gonna stay consistent with what what we promised those neighbors. We've had plans with access, we've had plans with emergency access, we've had plans without. So ultimately it's a I I really see it's a policy decision for you all to make a recommendation on, for the board to make a decision on.

2:27:13I think it personally I think it's a better decision to Have a footpath or or bicycle access onto Kitten and keep them extra traffic off. I like the fact that you move the uh vision road. No word. uh away from Kitten because I think getting to remain more of a rural road. Yeah, I think that would be important if I lived in that area. The other c uh thing I think we need to re rec all

2:27:43remember is that this property is that was actually zoned for a lot more units than you're asking for.

2:27:51The land use, yes, the land use correctly.

2:27:54So Um and I know we're not required to give the maximum But it we're not given a maximum. But we are required to take into account people's property ownership rights and so You know, I think this is a much better plan than you came with last time. And uh Uh and I think it takes away some of the concerns that I would have if I lived on Kitten Trail. And that's that's what I try to

2:28:24do. I try to put myself in that in their situation. I also appreciate the fact that you're not gonna have any two story homes on the perimeter. So you don't feel like there's somebody looking down on on the home adjacent to your development. Yeah That's uh that's come up a number of times in other applications and I thought that was a great good consideration. So um

2:28:55Uh I'm I'm pleased with what you've come up with.

2:29:01Thank you. Well we'll uh if you have any more questions, I'm happy to answer them. If not, we'll let the public speak and come back.

2:29:08I think my question might be for staff. Um so I appreciate you putting the flashers on the south and I think you put it on the north as well. That's correct. I like that you did on both. Um but my question for staff, and I know this is how it was done in other MPUDs, and I think maybe in my mind when I go to look for those flashers, I immediately go to the conditions of approval and they're on the master plan, but they're not necessarily on the binding plan. So I think my question might be best for Patrick Dutter, but he's not here.

2:29:39I just want to make sure that his team knows to look at those master plans or binding plans to know saying, hey, there's supposed to be flashers here when it comes through site plan review. I think he I think him and his team know that and I think they're trained to look out for that, but

2:29:56David Engel, Planning and Economic Development Director, we do more than that. We have a tracking sheet on all our MPUDs now that are shared with all stakeholders that do subsequent plan review or permitting. So um When an MPD is approved, we have a tracking document that Patrick's team receives with a checklist with all the obligations all laid out.

2:30:19Oh.

2:30:20Thank you.

2:30:21Perfect.

2:30:25All right, thank you. Okay,

2:30:26yeah. Are there any other questions for Will Hight? No?

2:30:33All right, um you wanna let me know who signed up to speak?

2:30:38Mr. Chair, the first individual I have for public comment is uh Mr. Ken Howard and after that it'll be Martin D.

2:30:45Okay.

2:30:48If the second person would like to come up closer to be ready, that'd be f that's fine.

2:30:53Name's Ken Howard, address [address removed]. My first uh Concern is road safety. Didn't have new traffic. Fatality since twenty nineteen is seven. Kitten Trail has nine fatalities from Hicks Road to Coyote Road. Long term residents say there's more Backup traffic is most likely to occur on Denton Avenue with the addition of twelve hundred plus cars to it daily. The overflow will

2:31:24definitely come on to Kitten Trail. an already busy road with school traffic. Of the nine fatalities on Kitten Trail, let's not forget the school bus accident on Kitten where there were students that were injuries in 2019. As discussed Open Bolton Avenue for overflow, this will take most likely years from now. Traffic will be a mess and it will only be s a small relief to a congested nightmare. We are looking at a small gesture

2:31:54Of putting in crosswalk Two. to propose sidewalks Some white paint on a road with flashing light is not gonna make anyone any safer. Family Trail is not affiliated with Hudson Family Trails. It is an access road from Landlock properties. actually owned by an elderly lady in Tennessee, twenty four foot wide, four hundred and nineteen yards long. No buffer for approximately one thousand

2:32:25feet. Family trail. Three properties on the east of the trail. On the north of the Development only two properties. for a total of five residents affected. Black well on the north is six properties. West. seven properties, east three properties. all various acres, and on the south four properties. All boundaries have heavy forest with no residents on four properties, with

2:32:55a total of twenty properties affected. Summer Chase on the south is Denton Avenue. East is light eight properties with Coyote Road separating them with a small buffer. North is four properties, west of Pasco Park system, a total of twelve properties, all various acreage. Shackle in Hudson Park. Buffer on the north of Hudson Park, a buffer on the north is Hudson Avenue. East is Peachtree Road,

2:33:25a subdivision in progress. South is five lots, various acres with four lots of eight acres, a total of nine residential properties.

2:33:37I they also go on with, you know, uh comparing um palm winds and uh Denton Place and Sagebrush, which is eight hundred and four units are proposed. Wes five west is five properties with a thirteen hundred and twelve foot of Pasco land. The north is eleven properties, plus a mobile home park, and the east is five properties, for a total of seventeen properties affected. Didn't have any project. West is eight hundred and seventy four

2:34:07yards of Pasco land, eleven residential acres South is fourteen residential acres. East is ten residential acres, plus undeveloped land of thirty nine acres. The difference is thirty five residential properties affected all various acres, unlike Summer Chase of twelve, Blackwell twenty, Family Trail of five, Palm Willems of sixteen, Denton Place, Sagebrush of seventeen, the Shackleton and

2:34:37Shackleton of nine residential acres. The comparison of buffers with these properties is a long shot from what Kit Kitten Shrail properties have to offer. The Commissioner who suggested one acre tracks for Denton Avenue project, has seen the value of the homes affected. By the project With overdevelopment and housing with small seventy foot lot w wide lots, abutted to acreage, and in the words

2:35:09His words, estate style properties, with this I still feel the product should be turned down. The comparison properties with buffer are deceiving. To compare with Denton Avenue Project and surrounding properties. This is not usual and customary to existing properties. Thank you.

2:35:28Okay. Thank you. I I was able to give you extra time because I heard the buzzer go off. I was trying to be considerate of your presentation, but I'm gonna have to try to keep everybody to their three minutes. So I'll go shorter. Thank you very much.

2:35:45After Mr. Ken or excuse me, after Mr. Martin D, we have Mr. William Roberts.

2:35:52Good afternoon. My name is Martin Dulbach. I live at [address removed], corner of Bolton and Dennis. The problem is I got with these people. Not that I disrespect 'em, but they're looking for everybody to accommodate everybody down the road. What about the people surrounding that property? You're taking big pieces of property And thrown Pebbles in the middle of it. And I'm sorry, we call us stones, but the pebbles in the middle. That's what they're doing.

2:36:23I'm sorry about the property half mile down the road where there's barely anybody where you got less people coming in to eject. Um, I can't understand it. Same thing like he was mentioning which I agree a hundred percent. You guys offered something about one acre per house. Not only did they ignore you, they didn't say, hey, we're going to decline this or accept this or think about this. They flat out ignored it. And that's all I got to say. Thank you.

2:36:48Okay, thank you.

2:36:50After Mr William Roberts we have Miss Janet Carlyle.

2:36:59Good afternoon, members of the board and staff. My name is Bill Roberts. I reside at [address removed]. I'm giving sworn testimony and thank you for this opportunity to speak. This is my first time ever doing this, so I hope you give me a little latitude. I don't have all the technical stuff I think people have. Welcome to be here. I am up here to oppose this zoning change in rural Pasco. Rural Pasco is disappearing piece by piece. Every rezoning may seem small on its own, but together they permanently

2:37:30transform agricultural and open land into dense urban development. Once the rural character is gone, it cannot be restored. Residents bought homes, farms, and property in these rural areas with the understanding that the county intended to preserve lower density development, protect natural resources, and maintain compatibility with existing communities. This proposal would increase traffic on roads that are already strained, especially during evacuations, school hours, and peak commuting

2:38:00times. Infrastructure in many rural parts of Pasco simply has not kept pace with growth growth. Approving more intensive development before roads, drainage schools, and emergency services are adequate burdens existing residents and taxpayers. There are also environmental concerns. Rural lands provide wildlife habitat, groundwater recharge, flood storage, and tree canopy that help reduce heat and stormwater impacts. Overdevelopment increases runoff and flooding risks, especially in a county already dealing

2:38:30with drainage problems. Problems in extreme weather events. In my opinion, the highest and best use of this tract is to preserve low density. Um to be clear, I am not opposed to growth. I know Pasco County will continue to grow. My concern is density. Growth should occur where infrastructure already exists and where the future land use map and zoning were designed to accommodate it. Smart growth means respecting established planning principles instead of continually pushing suburban density further into rural communities.

2:39:01Developers often promise buffers, landscaping and traffic improvements, but those measures do not replace the loss of rural character, open space, quiet, and quality of life that current residents value. And once rezoning is approved, future boards have little ability to reverse the long term consequences. The projects on the north side of Denton have already changed the character of the community by clear scraping those forests and using massive loads of fill. It's awful. As a native son of Florida, I have watched the growth in this state for a very

2:39:32long time. The land where I've met Neil Armstrong while dove hunting is now tracked housing. I asked the commission to protect rural Pasco County and deny this zoning change to preserve the character of the community. Again, thank you.

2:39:45Thank you very much.

2:39:47After Miss Janet Carlisle we have Karen Roberts.

2:39:54Good

2:39:54afternoon. My name's Janet Carlisle, [address removed]. Uh I to add a couple of key points. F first of all, summer chase in my book is not consistent with a rural area. Everybody out here, they all moved out into the country. They wanted country. They wanted acreage. They wanted land. They wanted peace. They wanted quiet. We are not gonna have that if they're gonna open it up and just let all these small property housing go

2:40:25in, okay? Um we have already problems with wildlife movement. Um the more that you're developing out there, they've already put sagebrush in. We're already seeing an increase in coyotes on the property, rattlesnakes. I don't expect to put my dog outside and have to worry about that. Um policing, it's pretty much null and void out there. Um th we can't even get police out there to run traffic control when you got speeders. You hear the crotch rockets flying down Denton Avenue

2:40:55every morning and every evening. Um N uh and also my other concern is if When we are in uh flooding and rainy seasons that area that they're proposing to put all these homes does flood and it does flood over top of Denton Avenue. So I'm assuming that drainage would have to be addressed. With that point if they build up the land, how does that change all of our flood zones? Are they gonna make that so now all of a sudden

2:41:25would those of us that are not in a flood zone are now gonna be flooded every time we get a storm? For runoff. um our water quality. We're all on wells. How was that all gonna affect us? Um There's just a lot of things that we all we all want to have a nice, quiet, peaceful area to live. That's why we moved out to these areas. So with that I I I'm Basically against all of this. I just want it to be

2:41:56country. I want it to be and stay rural. Thank you.

2:42:03After Miss Karen Roberts is Miss Sue Bolton.

2:42:14Good afternoon. Good afternoon board. My name is Karen Roberts. I am very humbled. and also kind of disappointed to have to be here today. I live next door to my sister. I live at [address removed]. And I have lived out there for twenty years. I'm on an acreage. I I'm looking at the maps that they are they're showing us as far as where Bolton is gonna take this brunt of all of this extra

2:42:44traffic. They don't even connect. Bolton and Denton and Kitten Trail. They don't connect. So I don't see how that's gonna even happen. Denton Avenue right now? Might as well be I seventy five. We have so much traffic. Big huge trucks. I have gotten killed, almost gotten killed, I cannot tell you how many times, trying to make a left hand turn.

2:43:16Crossing oncoming traffic when there's nobody coming, but I have to worry about somebody passing six cars behind me. coming into my lane as I am trying to cross into where I live. I am in agreement with Mr. Roberts, who's not a relation And everything that my sister has said, Miss Carlyle. Um, I can't stress enough how we're taking away little by little our peace of mind, our structured

2:43:47values that we came here in Pasco County to live for and live with. I beg you, please do not pass this ordinance for these homes to go in here. We have eagles living over on that property. We have golfer turtles, all kinds of other types of animals. We also have a big, huge spring in which the cows used to drink out of there when they lived there. They did reforestation. It all used

2:44:17to be Pine trees, the people that lived there did that and then y after years and years and years, they finally cut them down and reseeded. Some of them did grow back. But not the majority. Um, I think they just didn't water it properly. But I just beg you, please do not pass this. Thank you.

2:44:38Yeah.

2:44:39After Miss Sue Bolton is Miss Deborah V.

2:44:49My name is Sue Bolton. Um I live at [address removed]. Um My biggest concerns are flooding. I am very low. In fact, Mr. Seminol stated the last time that we had this meeting. that I was very low. Uh last week when we had rain I had Lake Font property pretty much. Um Mm, I'm concerned about runoff

2:45:19as far as waters 'cause I have a well.

2:45:23Um, another big concern of mine is uh the gopher tortoises. I have three acres and I have three turtles that live on my land. And I have possums, I have the redheaded woodpeckers. on my property. Where you know, where are all these gonna go when all of a sudden we have more traffic Which is another complaint because Like the lady before me just said, I go make a left turn into my driveway. Which

2:45:54I'm one of Lot passed Dennis Drive. I go to make a left-hand turn, which I've turned my turn signal on at Dennis Drive. And I have cars passing me. Going between my mailbox and my fence. You know, and nothing is done about the traffic out there. One day this summer I saw bunch of kids running down Kitten Trail.

2:46:21I knew that it was the children from the um High school that were out running track. It's always been that way. They always ran down kitten trail. But the traffic is out in so bad I called a fridge m friend of mine that's a principal at one of the schools right there. And I said, Danny, you've got to get these kids off of this road. They're you know, we've already had a number of fatalities. These kids are gonna get hurt. So she called the high

2:46:51school. She's a principal at the middle school. She called the high school And they immediately went out and got 'em all. I mean, you know. So I guess those are my biggest concerns. Um And I appreciate you guys listening to us. Thank you.

2:47:07Thank you very much.

2:47:09After Miss Deborah V is a Miss Tracy Love.

2:47:18And who's next after that? Debra B. Deborah Lee?

2:47:24Deborah V.

2:47:25V.

2:47:28And his who's ex after Deborah.

2:47:30Tracy Love after Deborah V. So if Tracy Love or excuse me, if Deborah is not here, Tracy Love.

2:47:37And he's after Tracy.

2:47:40There's more people that aren't signed up. Yeah. I'm tr I'm actually Tracy Lowe. And I reside at [address removed]. First I'd like to thank the county staff for always being available. to the c this commission for your time and consideration. We are very grateful for a reduction in density from sixteen hundred and fourteen residences to eight hundred and thirty-two residences. However, we also feel it's important to acknowledge that this reduction was not solely the result of voluntary actions by

2:48:10the developer. In May of 2022, the Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council recommended halting the rapid conversion of commercial and industrial land to residential neighborhoods. As a result, the Denton Avenue MPUD abandoned its comprehensive plan amendment change and removed the proposed multifamily dwelling units from the project. That being said, we are deeply disappointed that the Denton Avenue MPUD application, which was continued on April 16, 2026, failed to meaningfully

2:48:41address concerns raised both by this commission and the surrounding community. Specifically, we are disappointed about the applicant chose to not revise the perimeter lot sizes to the one acre lots that were strongly encouraged during the previous hearing, leaving the project at a density of three point four dwelling units per acre. This raises an important question. Why would the applicant choose to disregard the recommendations and guidance provided by this commission? As our community expressed not only in April 2026

2:49:11hearing, but also throughout 2022 and during multiple neighborhood meetings, this development, even the proposed revisions, remain incompatible with the surrounding area and the existing rural character of our community. In addition, our area already faces an overabundance of housing. Ms. Wilhite herself illustrates this in the supplemental consistency analysis submitted on May 14, 2026. Our residents have already witnessed firsthand the impact rapid development has had on nearly nearby

2:49:42rural areas. All you have to do is drive down Hudson Avenue to see the damage that unchecked growth has caused to the rural character of this community. The requested rezon rezoning change does not reflect compatibility with the surrounding land uses, nor does it demonstrate that the applicant truly listened to the concerns of the neighboring residents or the recommendations made by this commission. The refusal to incorporate larger larger perimeter lots shows a lack of willingness to compromise or responsibly

2:50:12transition this project into the existing community. Yeah. For these reasons, I respectfully ask that you deny this application. Thank you very much for your time and consideration.

2:50:22Okay, thank you.

2:50:24Up next is a Mr. Tim V and after that is Nola Leclair.

2:50:38Good afternoon, board. Thank you for this time and this opportunity. My name is Tim Vandenberg. I live on [address removed]. in Hudson, Florida. Uh we have a little over 800 feet of property line sharing on the southeastern spur of this land development proposed. uh which is we also have about just under twelve acres of property, one of the largest that's affected by the uh development.

2:51:09Um in the last meeting, as others said, the exterior lots were proposed to be larger and blend more with the rural rural uh characteristics of the surrounding area. We are asking for the one-acre lots that were proposed by the board and sizes to match the community and surrounding as a minimum. Many, including ourselves, have large type animals, including horses, donkeys, goats. and maintain that rural lifestyle uh around this community. The impact of the surrounding infrastructure, including

2:51:40roads, schools, utility, emergency services, and more, will be greatly impacted. We appreciate the efforts to increase the buffers and the natural barriers, but wanted to emphasize maintaining this rural type of community in a way in a life that has been there for decades, if not longer. We are also uh we also wanted to verify that only single story homes would be built on both the south shared property line and the north sides of that spur. W I understand that they're gonna be on the uh property

2:52:10line, but I wanted to make sure it was also on the north side of that spur. Due to our elevated position and views, having a two-story residence in these areas would remove the privacy of the affect you know affected homeowners. and that would be for many years until that buffer matures naturally, which could be uh five to twenty years, depending on the uh type of buffer. Thank you for your time and attention in hearing our community and concerns, and I'm opposed to the current proposed

2:52:40plan. Thank you very much. Thank you.

2:52:44The last individual signed up to speak is a Ms. Nola LeClaire.

2:52:53Good afternoon, Commissioners. I live at [address removed]. I'm directly across the street on a dirt road from this development. I have a 10-acre equine estate and I breed Palomino Foundation quarter horses. I don't think any

2:53:16before you go any further, could you just give us your name for the record? Because we're recording and all

2:53:21Nola LeClaire.

2:53:23Thank you, Nola.

2:53:26I'm really surprised that something like this would be going in in our little piece of heaven in this small corner of Pasco County. The reason I moved up here twenty years ago was it was close to the beach, the hospitals, uh the horsemen's association, so my kids could have horses. The same with the other neighbors. All of the people on my street have ten-acre

2:53:56properties. And no one has taken us into consideration. And here we are. There's the development in my front yard. And they give us twenty feet. For a buffer? They're putting in all these houses in this beautiful agricultural large lot community. All the way down Denton. They're two acres, acre and

2:54:26a half properties. We have that one little one over by the ballpark. I no know how that was passed. But I'm just saying Don't ruin this little piece of heaven that Pasco has left. and the small co corner of the community. Thank you.

2:54:46Okay, thank you very much.

2:54:50All right. Is that anybody else?

2:54:52There is nobody else signed up to speak, Mr. Chair.

2:54:55Okay. Is there anybody that wants to speak that hasn't signed up to speak? Okay, if you please come forward and give us your name, your address, and have you been sworn? No sir, I haven't been sworn in yet. Okay, let's get you sworn.

2:55:11Do you swear or from the testimony you're about to give, is the truth still have you gone?

2:55:14Yes, ma'am. My name is Matthew Carruthers. Um my family resides at uh [address removed]. Um I've heard from a lot of folks here that have been here a long time, some that have been here for a short period of time. I'm a generational resident. Um my children will be the fourth generation on that property. I am a sixth generation Floridian. My children will be seventh. Um We have sat by, me specifically and my brothers

2:55:45and watched my parents and my grandparents struggle. with their day-to-day activities living on Kitten Trail. The roads were limrock, they were holes. Other um residents and the area would have to come out and pull each other out from the roadways and whatnot. Um There was no real pavement um past Cobra Way coming back down that way and uh we just dealt with it. Um whenever the county decided to put in the refuse center. And

2:56:15put in the uh dump and whatnot, all of a sudden Hudson Avenue went through and Hudson Avenue got paved. Kit and trail got paved the rest of the way down. And with that pavement came the heavy haul trucks. Trash trucks, dump trucks, rock trucks, you name it, all coming down. Um we dealt with that as well. Um dealt with the new neighbors moving in, didn't like how the area was set up, consistently having to deal with code enforcement coming out. cleaning up, doing whatever we had to do.

2:56:46We dealt with it. Um Now we have this big development knocking on our back door. We have all of these homes that want to be shoved down our throats and like many of us have already stated, we have horses, we have chickens, we have goats, we have large parcels of property that we contain all this on. This this what you're proposing now is or what they're proposing now this doesn't fit the criteria by any means. I'm

2:57:16forty-five years old. I've lived for 45 years on that road. I have watched everything come down that road. And for once I'm asking and coming uh uh f and uh on behalf of my family to ask, don't do this to us. Don't make us have to swallow this. We've endured a lot on that road. We have made do with what was given to us on that road, but please don't push this down our throat. Thank you.

2:57:46Thank you.

2:57:57Good afternoon. I have not been sworn in either.

2:58:00Okay, let's get you sworn.

2:58:03Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, so help you God.

2:58:07Yes, absolutely.

2:58:09Your name please?

2:58:10My name is Skyler Talley. I live at [address removed]. I'm right at the southwest corner of this development. Um First thing I want to say, that I noticed actually today, Pasco County. Open spaces, vibrant places. Seems like we're taking away a really large open space and crowding it significantly. I mean this is one of many. It's not just one. We

2:58:40were mentioned there was what six other developments that this was compared with. and those are all within few miles of my house. Seems like we're gonna have to probably change that soon 'cause the amount of open spaces are disappearing. I mean vibrant places, maybe. Seems like a lot of nice colors that they're putting in for all the palettes for these developments that are coming in, but Not really having open spaces. Um hold on. Another thing

2:59:10I wanted to mention I I heard I'm speaking about was the compatibility with similar developments and situations. but the development scale And the proportion. in comparison to these other developments and what they're doing to try or what they've been approved for is just Night and day. Well I mean The near dyed v developments pale in comparison, they're overshad shadowed by the magnitude. of the impact that

2:59:41this one is going to have on our community. Um Last time my comments were about the impact of the educational system because I believe and I believe everyone here would agree that as the current generation we need to be good stewards and preserve what we have in our community for the future generations to come. This is gonna change. the community and this entire area. It's going to change all the developments that are going in are already changing it. But this impact is going to turn it

3:00:11into a suburban area. It is going to change it from what it is now. And most likely the people who have been in this community for a long period of time are gonna see the effects of these new neighbors that aren't trying to move into a rural area, that aren't trying to go and have horses, have goats, have chickens, shoot their guns in their yards, which they have the right to do so. It's gonna cause a lot of issues that as the

3:00:41time comes. And The other big thing to me is the water supply. I understand that they're gonna be having new pipes laid in, they're not nobody's gonna be on wells. Well last time that that happened in nearby communities by us, uh the county came in and everybody had to sign off on taking county water and paying another bill and not having their well anymore. We were mentioned last time about where is the water coming from when we were in a severe

3:01:11drought. Well the water's coming from Far, far, far away. From our lots. So we're gonna be piping all of that to where we're at. They're gonna try and take us off our well water, which is actually helping with the droughts, because we're taking from an area that has trees, has canopy, has grass, has the things to be able to supplement that water supply instead of trying to take it from an area that we've piped down to and go through more drought issues. As I'm

3:01:42being from California. I've seen that a lot.

3:01:45Mm-hmm.

3:01:45Thank you so much for your time.

3:01:47All right, thank you.

3:01:55So any is there anyone else?

3:02:06I'm not sworn in either.

3:02:10Should we maybe ask if there's anybody else who think they may Provide public comment also would like to swear in.

3:02:19Even even if you're thinking about it, you may choose not to. You might want to stand and swear in just in case.

3:02:30Yes, of course. My name is Lori O'Malley. I live at [address removed]. I've lived in Pasco County my whole life. I moved from Newport Ritchie to Hudson because of the rural factor and that I could have livestock. Hmm. Uh The county the county must grow. The development has to happen to some degree, but at what cost? And um this young lady has gone to a great

3:03:00deal of time and energy and education to tell us how compatible this is gonna be. Well it's not gonna be compatible. We're all rural, we're all got livestock, we all got a different lifestyle than where she lives on Grand Boulevard. Um We also don't have the millions of dollars that these people have to give the county. We're just the people that live there, have raised our families, and enjoy the open area. All

3:03:31the c all the um Construction has changed like so many people have said. Yes, there is a animal issue. Yes, there is a water issue. We all have wells, we're all concerned about it. But I have to say also that um I'm pretty cynical about the whole thing because this is gonna happen. They have millions. Y'all aren't gonna just say Okay, it's rural. These people have lived there. I've lived on Kitten Trail for forty

3:04:01years and um I appreciate you guys time. I appreciate y'all listening. So you do know how we feel, even though I feel like it isn't gonna make much difference. But thank you for your time this afternoon.

3:04:17Thank you.

3:04:27Is there anyone else?

3:04:30If not, uh

3:04:33Oh yeah. Barbara. Barbara Wade.

3:04:36Yeah.

3:04:38And you need to be sworn?

3:04:39No, I've been sworn. My name's Ann Atkison. I live at [address removed]. I shared 279 feet of my rear property with the project. We've only been here for three years, but we've grown to love it. We moved here for the same reasons everybody else did. To be rural, to be in the country, to have animals. I have goats. My neighbors have a horse and a donkey. We all have dogs. I have chickens. It's great. I love it. However, when you put up these

3:05:09homes behind us, These people who come to buy these homes. When you walk in that neighborhood and you're house shopping, it seems suburban. It doesn't seem rural. Well, they're gonna get a surprise if they buy On the perimeter. In the back. They're gonna hear gunshots. They're gonna smell. horses and donkeys and goats. They're gonna hear roosters when they wanna sleep in. So guess where it's gonna happen? They're gonna call the sheriff and go, Hey, Then they're gonna come

3:05:40talk to us. And that's not right. It's real hard De Back Suburban. Up to rural. While I appreciate the forty foot buffer, I'm really glad about that. These seventy foot lots? That can't happen. There'll be four homes behind me. There'd be twelve to my neighbor to the east. and then three on the next five lots to my west. This isn't

3:06:10compatible. It does not mesh the family what is it, the uh Hudson Family Trail? That only affects like six people. This affects a lot of people. The buffer that's on the uh family, Hudson Family Trail. That's thick woods. They never had to touch it. That is a natural buffer. these little trees, even if six feet high, They're not gonna grow fast. I don't

3:06:40know what else to say at this point. I'm against it. But thank you for your time.

3:06:46Thank you. We're coming.

3:06:53Good afternoon.

3:06:54Tim Lowe, [address removed]. That's in Florida. I have been sworn. Chair, Commissioner thank you for your time. I believe the real question today is compatibility. It's kind of where we left off with our meeting in April. Um we had over 17 people come forward as we did today to speak in opposition to this project. mainly because of lack of compatibility. Um that primary reason being density. We're talking about three hundred and thirty one acres um

3:07:25of a project with a large amount of homes, industrial, residential, And from the last meeting, the only thing that changed was a little bit of modified buffer to the southern end. Contrary to what the board had requested, contrary to what the um neighbors had requested. Um they also came forward with some comparison projects in the area. Six projects I believe. Um five of them that have already been talked about,

3:07:55how they do not compare to this project. We're the uh family trail project 38 acres, Blackwell, 107 acres, Palm Wind, 116, Sackelson 34, Acres, Summer Chase, uh 39 acres. Summer Chase, I think wasn't that approved like in 2006? Quite a while ago. Not really a good comparison. My point here is those five projects all

3:08:26combined will fit on the Denton Avenue project. Within a couple acres. Plus or minus. Completely different scale. So in in my opinion that's not Not comparable. Um The one that would be objectively compared would be Denton Place. A little bit over a quarter mile away down on Denton Avenue. It's fairly equal in size. Three hundred and six acres, um eight hundred

3:08:56units Um scale wise very, very similar. However, the surrounding property is not. To the north you have a mobile owned park, To the south you have uh Denton Avenue. And then the eastern property there is Pasco facilities management. And then on the western side you've got Some lots, but also Pasco County right away and then I'm sorry, you've got Towards the northern

3:09:26portion of that western lot, you have some fifty to sixty foot wide lots that border that uh that western property line, majority of its Pasco County right away, and then five rural lots that are affected. So the big takeaway between those properties or projects and this one Is you don't have the amount of people that are coming forward in opposition, the amount of rural property owners that are affected by it. Um so when we had that meeting last last month, I think we communicated

3:09:57that quite well. And I just want to reiterate that. So again, thank you for listening. Thank you for your time.

3:10:04All right, thank you very much.

3:10:11Okay, does that do it for the from the audience? If so, would the applicant come back up and maybe answer some of those questions and concerns?

3:10:24We just before

3:10:25Barbara speaks, can we just confirm there's nobody online staff?

3:10:32We have no virtual commenters on this one, right?

3:10:36There's nobody signed up to speak on this one virtually?

3:10:38Correct. There is nobody online.

3:10:40Okay, thank you.

3:10:41Well, yeah, okay, so Ms. Well I we had some questions about drainage, uh questions about where the water's coming from, uh discussion about the Bolton connection, uh about uh wildlife surveys maybe, and um

3:11:03where you're gonna put the one story buildings. I think those were the main some of the major concerns.

3:11:14Okay.

3:11:16So a couple of things. I'll have Joseph and I'll come up and talk drainage. We had four neighborhood meetings, so he's talked drainage a lot. He did the uh grading plan in between our third and fourth meetings, so he's very familiar with the the grading out there, the drainage out there, what he needs to do. to deal to address the water impact from this project. Uh with regard to wells and I'm sure Mr. Simon will and the concern of one of the neighbors that they'll have to give up their well, the water supply is coming from Central Water

3:11:46and Sewer, which is on Denton Avenue at this project. The public infrastructure is sitting at the front door of this project. The comp plan says where you have public water and sewer, central water and sewer, minimum density is three units per acre. And it says that for a reason. It's so that The p investment in public infrastructure is not wasted by the fact that there's a desire to have lower density because

3:12:16The decision to mit put in central water and sewer is based upon future land use plans. The future land use on this property is res six. So I understand the question and the concern about losing wells, but there's no pipes coming a long way. They're sitting at the door. The central water and sewer is sitting there. The minimum density for the comp plant is supposed to be three units per acre. I did the calculation because I'm like, oh my goodness, we keep going around in circles with regard to all the density. What is our density? So I did it based upon uh Joe Simon's plans.

3:12:46We have 251.8 developable acres divided by 832 units is 3.026. That is our density. The res six portion is 3.4, the res 3 portion is 2.5. The neighbors that talked about the north versus the south spur. That's in the Res 6, excuse me, in the Res 3 land use where their density will be 2.5 units per acre. And yes, we'll have one-story homes on that spur, all the way around

3:13:16that spur. Um Bolton I know we talk a lot of technical things here. Vision Road. It's the fact that we the Vision Road Network and what the future network is and the county's improvements to the roadway network in the future and what and you guys know this and what that is intended to be. Where does the county want to put improvements to build out their their network for county build out. And they did want to do it on Kitten, but the county's changed it to Bolton, so I just wanted to explain that a little bit

3:13:46further.

3:13:49Um

3:13:53Let me just uh Obviously the conversation regarding rural versus urban I did I took notes when Mr. Roberts spoke. Um We have to we have to balance here just because We have The folks have a rural. their rural homes and and their and their lives versus this property that has rights to. It's a res six land use. It's not in a rural protected area. Our neighbors to the south are in a rural protected area. They're in a res 3 area. So I think it's important to

3:14:23understand that I've a tribe to achieve that balance and respected the fact that they have their homes And they're rural. But I also need to understand that we also have property rights and and try to achieve a balance between where you have central water and sewer. Where we're going to be able to do that. not doing uh the red the density based upon the land use. I I noticed, you know, he said where b make sure that you have density where infrastructure exists and comprehensive plan use pop plans provides. That's exactly what we have here. We have the

3:14:53infrastructure here. We've done the traffic studies pursuant to the code. We meet all the requirements with regard to our traffic on Denton. We'll actually eventually our our project will put in a traffic light. um which will actually slow down and make people stop. Um which I think that will b be good. Um

3:15:12I'll I'll have Joe come up here in one second so he can talk about flooding and animals. Um

3:15:22And uh Mrs. Lowe said why we changed our project in twenty twenty two, f it wasn't based upon T B R P C it was based upon listening to their comments. The the the pages of documents that you have? um in your record with all of the comments from 2022. We read every one of them. When mister Melsom came on board to represent the property owner, he read every one of them. So it wasn't some T B R P C study. It was actually listening to the neighbors.

3:15:50I we approached this the same issue came up in Sackleson on Fox Fire near Colony, um east of Peachtree on the south side of Hudson with regard to we live a rural lifestyle, we have animals, we have your your residents won't know. And what the board, County Commissioner has asked us to do was write a condition, a rural disclosure condition. And I have written that language, and we can certainly add that like the board asked us to add in for Sackleson. which had the similar concerns. We can certainly

3:16:20add that disclosure into this project if you want to. I can send it set hook hand it out, but we do have a condition so that all of our property owners across our project would will know You know, where they're where are they choosing to live?

3:16:34Can you read that disclosure?

3:16:36Um I can actually pass it out to you. I made copies.

3:16:40Motion to receive and file. Second. All in favor? I can pass it down.

3:16:53The applicant developer Shabal shall provide written disclosure to all units within the Denton Avenue MPUD that they are purchasing a residence in proximity to properly currently zoned AR and AC, which allows commercial farming and agricultural activities, general farming pursuits, and maintaining livestock protected by the Florida Right to Farm Act, Florida Statute Section 823.14. The applicant developer shall provide a copy of the written disclosure to the county concurrent with the associated record plat. This disclosure obligation will cease if all the

3:17:23lands within a half mile of the MPUD have been rezoned to a zoning district. that does not allow for commercial farming and agricultural activities, general farming pursuits, and maintaining livestock. The reason why that second sentence, that last sentence was in there, because like this area, That we have Res 6 and Res III, that area also had a different future land use from how it was currently developed. So if if the property ultimately in the area ultimately develops differently, that's what that was written for. But we certainly can add that condition.

3:17:53Um the board asked for that in uh approving Sackleson.

3:18:06Mm-hmm.

3:18:07Did I catch everything, Mr. Chairman?

3:18:09Uh I think the only thing you didn't talk about were the um wildlife surveys.

3:18:15I will have Mr. Simono come up and talk about wildlife and uh drainage.

3:18:21Okay.

3:18:22And wells and water and

3:18:23before you do that One of the questions the public asked. which I think would be reasonable to answer, is the suggestion was made to come back with some one acre lots, so why can't we do that?

3:18:41So we were asked the same question in our neighborhood meetings and the client did evaluate that. They took told the residents, the same residents asking for it now, we're at our neighborhood meetings, and he did evaluate that and the feasibility of that. Um I I can have him come up and answer it if you'd like. best person to do it to talk about it is the person that actually looked into it. So I'd be happy to do that.

3:19:03Okay. Great.

3:19:06Well we've got Joe at the moment, so let's let Joe Let Joe come up and talk. Joe stuff. Thank you.

3:19:15All right. Uh hello again everyone. Uh we'll start with drainage. This is um you know a lot of times when we develop property we have water.

3:19:23Sorry, could you just for the record your name? Yeah

3:19:25Joe Simeno, WRA Engineering 12363, Hampton Park Drive, Tampa, Florida, 33624. A lot of projects we do, we have water shedding off the site into neighboring communities, into neighboring uh waterways, and we have to make sure we're maintaining rate and volume leaving the site. This is a rare one where all the surrounding water is coming at us. So we've uh painstakingly done a pretty elaborate grading plan with a lot of detail, much more than we would do at this level of

3:19:55planning, to make sure that the critical locations where water is entering our site, there's probably about a half a dozen critical locations. We've uh we have allocated room for drainage inlet intakes. and easements to get water to our very, very large ponds that we've incorporated into this plan that are sized to hold the hundred-year storm event without even considering uh infiltration, which will absolutely happen out here. Uh Miss Bolton's concern, she's absolutely uh got an issue

3:20:26in her yard. She's south and west of our site. We don't really share the same watershed. Um, but I would be more than happy to, you know, volunteer my time to talk to her and see what can be done on her property. But her her water doesn't come at us and our water doesn't go at her. From a wildlife standpoint, the this application itself required a full comprehensive threatened and endangered species survey. If this proceeds when we go to construction plan review, whether there's one

3:20:56phase of construction or it's broken up into multiple, each application will require a new threatened and endangered species report. And then, even once, and if it goes that far, even if that's approved, prior to construction, we're required to do another threatened and endangered species survey, no less than 90 days ahead of construction, to just see what the final result is, and any threatened and endangered species have to be accommodated. In some cases, that means changing construction

3:21:26schedule, adding additional. buffers with gopher tortoises it means relocating them to a mitigation site. So there's basically three levels of checks on the threatened and endangered species leading up to construction to make sure they are not bulldozed over. That's not a thing that happens anymore.

3:21:43So okay. So ha have you found a lot of wildlife on that site?

3:21:49Yes. Uh the initial MPUD uh found a hundred gopher tortoises, which is pretty standard for a site that size. Um the good thing is, just looking at the map, the highest concentration is along the southern property line and the park area to the south that we're at that we're actually preserving. So that's actually where the highest density is.

3:22:09Okay. Great. Any questions? Okay, thanks Joe.

3:22:19Would you like Sure, yes. Um we were also looking at the aerial maps in Google Earth 3D, which actually allows you to see more 3D versions of trees. And um yes, there's not a forest like those other pictures you saw on the southern half of the property. However, there is a tree line along the southern boundary. Um it's absolutely in what would normally be the the grading limits of a normal project. Um you know, uh no developer wants to remove trees if they if they don't

3:22:49have to, but in many cases you have to raise the site, grade the land, and you end up removing those trees and planting a new buffer. The painstaking efforts we took on our grading plan, one of the questions or one of the challenges that I was tasked with was: can we not touch any trees along the southern property line with our grading plan? And we made it work. There's a lot of ups and downs. I didn't think it would, but we're committed to preserving all the existing vegetation along the southern property line, and there is absolutely a mature tree line

3:23:19along it. along most of that boundary that would be preserved because of the grading.

3:23:26And I'm happy to answer any other questions.

3:23:30Anything from up here? Oh. Thank you, Joe.

3:23:35All right, thank you.

3:23:45Good afternoon. Uh my name is Robert Melson and I am developing the uh property on behalf of New Strategy Holdings. So I guess the question was. How do we define the the width of the lots that will be in this community? And that wasn't the question. What was the question?

3:24:01The question was when we had our last hearing there was some suggestion that we'd probably find this property more compatible if there were some one-acre lots. to help make a transition to surrounding properties. So what I'm asking is how come or what is the problem with providing some one acre lots?

3:24:29Well, if you wanna refer to it as what is the problem, I don't know if I'm really gonna answer the question that way, but I'm gonna tell you how we um define the lobwoods that we have. You know, again, as what we are is we're a community developer and we develop communities and we sell our lots to home builders. So the way that we defined the maximum width of a lot that would be on this property was by speaking to the group of home builders that we typically do work with. And when I spoke to them, you know, had m you know, many conversations

3:25:00with uh you know, marketing people with the home builders and division presidents and operating uh executives. They said the maximum size lot that we could uh w we we would be interested in purchasing on this property in this market is a seventy foot wide lot. So what we decided to do was we decided to you know, place the seventy foot lots along the uh the southern portion of the property. And we're really seeing this more like a uh an entree.

3:25:31And I'm doing another uh community with seventy foot lots and those homes are selling for seven, eight hundred thousand dollars. So That is why we have seventy foot lots. It's it's a market driven response.

3:25:51Okay. Any comment? No. Wanted to know.

3:25:59Any other questions the team can answer?

3:26:04So I would just close and just saying The land use does matter. It matters both to the residents and it matters to my client. The comprehensive plan was set by the county at six units per acre. We'll looked at what's around us, we've made all the changes, we've really tried to come to a reasonable balance.

3:26:28Ultimately the the client wanted more We had plans for more. We took those plans and changed them after in twenty twenty two. It is now twenty twenty six. Twenty twenty two we took those plans and we changed them. Listening to the neighbors. Then we continued to listen. We did four more neighborhood meetings and then we listened more at Planning Commission. So And in the end of the day you have to strike a balance between the properties. It's not in a protected rural area. But we've tried

3:26:58to balance it as though it was. And that's what I've tried to do. I've tried to provide a benefit where we can with off-site improvements. On site improvements. And so it's been very thoughtful. It's been a journey to get here. We're not changing the land use. We are respecting the land use. Um I know it's a hard decision for you all. But I think we've done what we can and

3:27:28what we need to do and what by the way what we're required to do, because there's actually a component and a code to follow here that says what we have to do to be able to be approved. And we ultimately have met those and exceeded those time after time. So with that I will let you all make your decision and your recommendation to the board. Thank you.

3:27:47All right, thank you.

3:27:52Alright. So do we have a motion for purposes of discussion?

3:28:07I don't have a motion. But I I I still have a concern with emergency access and I understand there isn't um a want to kitten trail, so I was wondering if there was how Well the right away can you can you Speak on Bolton and how that's being preserved or accessed or what are you doing because it doesn't seem like you're paving that, but there's a park along

3:28:37there. I just want to make sure in the event of an emergency they can and I'm sure that passive park if there was a sidewalk there or a fire truck will drive right up it if it needs, but Um You know, I I still have that concerned. So I was wondering if there was some sort of um what's happening with that bolt and right of way.

3:28:58Sure. So Bolton as as you heard from the testimony the the uh our neighbors Bolton doesn't exist to our west, off site. And to the east, Bolton doesn't exist. So what we're doing is is preserving the right of way. We'll build portions of Denton excuse me, of Bolton as needed for the project. It's not intended to be emergency access. It's just a road that we put in through the middle of our property so that the county in the future, when they have a build out network, they'll have the ability to

3:29:28extend Bolton to Coet Coyote if they'd like, 'cause Coyote's a vision road as well. They can get Bolton to K Hicks or Bolton to Little, both vision roads. So that frames out your your but it frames out the ultimate Uh build up network. Again on emergency access. If you all want to recommend that Absolutely. We can accommodate it. We've had it in our plans. We'd accommodate it. Um make that recommendation, debate it, you know, talk about it between yourselves.

3:29:58If that's the motion with with that condition, that's fine. Ultimately, I mean I think it'd be helpful to the board. of county commissioners to get your thoughts on emergency access as a collective body. So um

3:30:11Our b uh we have two functional accesses, as you heard uh Mr. Bamilion say, the code requires that at the number of units we're gonna have, uh around six hundred or six oh one, we have to have two functional accesses. Um under that you have to have emergency access. Um And functional access, one functional access and emergency access. But we're gonna have two functional accesses and we'll meet the code requirements, but I can tell you I did the same thing at Sackles and it was the same conversation. It was like to have or not to have and and ultimately the

3:30:41board made the decision not to have. I d I don't know what will be decided here, so I'm fine either way.

3:30:47I think my I'm kind of with Liam on on this. I think condition twenty-two says that there'll be no emergency or vehicular access. And then I know in the memo it says that fire had no comment, but we also heard from the fire department several months ago that they really don't look at it till site plan, it's uh it seemed like to me. Um so I just maybe we don't limit it completely or you know. Because you got the binding site plan, that's gonna show the park, but if fire determines they need access, I think I need to leave the door open for that. That would be my thought.

3:31:18And I think we had a lot of discussion last time talking about making sure if there is emergency access, it is cannot be converted to as much legally as possible, not converted to full access. So So I mean I would be open to have some sort of condition where it's, you know, hey, it's up to fire, but in the event that they determine they want emergency access, that it cannot be converted. Um or

3:31:49restrictive as possible. Um

3:31:51We have a condition in Sackleton. I didn't bring it. I was ready. We did the same thing. We had to Dedicate on the plat, dedicate Ingress egress rights. Other than and that one included emergency access. Um But you certainly could take the same Sackleson language that we put together with the County Attorney's Office and they had like three different ways that we ha we had to make sure that we couldn't convert by we handling it on the plat that we couldn't convert later to full

3:32:22access.

3:32:23And then for Bolton, your east side, although I don't think it is a public road, goes to that Mattis

3:32:33Road. To Mattis, right.

3:32:35Um how is that being handled with that road because I think you said you were be building that road but not con Connecting

3:32:45the can the conditions say that we'll build Bolton as needed for the project. So depending on our ultimate layout, um we may never get to the property lines. Both the West and the East would convey the right of way. Mattis Road is um A county on Pasco Mapper is a county maintained road, but on private property. 'Cause there's no right away from Mattis Road.

3:33:14But ultimately we also wrote a condition that ultimately if we do End up. constructing to our eastern property line, then there's a provision of how we barricade that and so forth. But We're you know, we're open for ideas on on Bolton, certainly, but that's how the conditions read.

3:33:31Um

3:33:38I thought there was a pretty strong uh push by the residents not to have any vehicular access from Kitten Trail.

3:33:51I I agree. I'm I'm not saying that there has to be emergency access. I was saying, you know, I I Wishfire maybe made a comment. I I mean I do have a concern that there's only two accesses from Bolton. This stretches all the way or from Denton and it stretches all the way down to Kinton. And I mean that's a long way and there's houses in there so I mean I would be concerned for emergency access. Now, I'm not the emergency access

3:34:22guy. So I would I would defer to somebody else the making that determination at site plane review. So that's why I was asking on Bolton if it goes to Mattis, can there be emergency access over

3:34:34there somehow or You know I think if if if at some point Mattis was improved to county standards, yes. The reason they're having to barricade the access to Mattis is because it's not improved Mattis is not a standard roadway. That's why that's why they're barricading the access to Mattis. It's not a standard roadway.

3:34:58But we've done before the county's done before that they still provide emergency access to a substandard road.

3:35:12As long as the fire marshal says it's got enough compaction to To carry. Emergency vehicles.

3:35:22I mean has anybody I don't know if anybody's evaluated Mattis for emergency access.

3:35:28Staff, does anybody know whether Mattis has been evaluated for emergency access?

3:35:38It has not.

3:35:44Well I mean I I don't know if anybody else has this other concern. Maybe there can be some sort of added condition that says the fire review if it needs emergency access. I I mean I I feel like there should be some sort of emergency access, but I understand the residents don't want it. I understand it, you know, entirely up to the board, but I I think they're I think somebody should look at it. And maybe fire review says, nope, not needed, all good. That's their review, that's There,

3:36:15but I think there should be a maybe a called out condition that fire should specifically review if there needs to be emergency access. And maybe that emergency action access option is to kitten or to Mattis, and it gets reviewed at the that time and that it has a condition that it well except for Bolton, but a condition that it will never turn into a full p you know vehicle access, just like Sackelson.

3:36:42Well,

3:36:45The fire department does review MPUDs, did they comment on this?

3:36:53Yeah. Fire issued uh the comment, no comment.

3:37:03Maybe they reviewed it and say no emergency access, but I

3:37:09I don't know how much review FIRE does with M

3:37:11PUDs. When they issued the c comment no comment was at that time was there no access to kitten?

3:37:25Because this plan has been through a f a few iterations.

3:37:29My laptop has now died since it's 515. I'd like to uh use Giannis as a loaner and I can check that out for you.

3:37:37Well well he's checking that out too. Condition seventeen does say that the access points in the master plan are conceptual only. Permanent placement of each access point shall be determined at the time of review of the corresponding preliminary site plan. I'm not sure what the PDP is.

3:37:51Yeah, but I there's a different condition dealing with access to kitten.

3:37:57Right, that's what I'm saying. Then and then twenty-two then says there's not gonna be any access to kitten.

3:38:06That's in the dedication or right-of-way section.

3:38:19I I don't know if I'm the only one with this concern. And and again, I I will defer to somebody else to make that decision who's more qualified to see if there's emergency access or not. I have no issue with that.

3:38:34Well perhaps you could I'm just trying to think of what you could do today. Um is if you ultimately recommend approval. You could certainly ask that emergency access an option Of how that could be done. be presented to the board so they have an option. Is it Mattis? Is it kitten? Could it be Maddis?

3:38:56And maybe and maybe fire can

3:38:58fire could weigh in

3:38:59an affirmative answer from FIRE then.

3:39:02Right. So when evaluating the option of emergency access, so it they would have an informed decision. Yeah. They could have fire look

3:39:07at it.

3:39:12Reviews and make a comment on if they need emergency access. Yeah, this is a good idea. And if so where?

3:39:15Yeah.

3:39:16Do they look at it? Right. Um as opposed to just issuing a w a response with no comment. They specifically look at whether there needs to be an additional emergency access or not. And if so, whether Mattis would suffice.

3:39:33It's a good idea.

3:39:34I

3:39:34think that'll not sure what Mattis gets you over the second access that they have.

3:39:41if one had an emergency. We would have to enter the project. Let's assume that the emergency happens down on the south end of the project, closer to the kitten trail side. The emergency vehicle would enter from Denton Avenue, drive all the way down to the south side of the project, and then have to drive all the way back to the north side of the project to get back out. And Denton does not go through and Mattis, I'm sorry, does not go through

3:40:11to Kitten, so you'd end up in back in the same place. You may be A few hundred feet east or west of where you started, but at the end of the day you're back to Denton, you went full circle and back to Denton.

3:40:24Unless it the connection is the kitten, it's not gonna do you any good.

3:40:27Or Bolton and or Bolton. There Bolton is a possibility. Yeah.

3:40:32Yeah but Liam I tend to agree with you. I mean whether it says it on the map or not, if emergency's there fire vehicle's gonna use the kitten trail trail access to to kitten. I mean that that's reality. I mean I've I've seen 'em drive down the trails before. I've seen 'drive down the Starkey trail. I I mean So

3:40:59That's correct. Yes. I mean

3:41:03Could be?

3:41:04We certainly can take the idea which is between now and the board to have Fire way in, fire emergency way in. Look at Mattis, look at that and let them offer their professional opinion.

3:41:19And if they're fine driving down the trail, that's fine too. Yeah.

3:41:22Right. Right. Yeah.

3:41:27Well, my one of the biggest concerns I have is eva if we wanted to deny this application, Don't we have w we have some legal issues there because this property was already identified and approved for land use REST six.

3:41:48Yes.

3:41:49They're making a lot of modifications to come down from those those

3:41:57Yeah, that that type of designation from what you said fourteen hundred units down to

3:42:02fourteen sixty two to eight thirty two, six units per acre to three point zero. Which by the way the surrounding land use is three units per acre.

3:42:11You know, it would be no different than if we tried to take a land use away from a an adjoining property owner. that they already had. And now if you had a five acre piece and you had the right to do certain things on that property b according to the land use Yeah, I I think you'd have some challenges if you wanted to take away their property rights. Yeah. Could put us in

3:42:41a very tenuous legal position.

3:42:46Yeah, that's why I was encouraging you to try to be as accommodating as you possibly could to the residents in that area because Yeah, we want to get the best. You wanna make the best deal you can.

3:43:01The best balance we can

3:43:02surrounding property owners.

3:43:04The best balance.

3:43:06And

3:43:10So, David, that's probably a question for you.

3:43:15Well, I mean it's a balancing act because as you know there's also comp plan provisions in case law saying that you're not entitled to the maximum of lane use

3:43:25Right, and they're not taking the maximum.

3:43:27Right. So um but Yeah. I can't tell you the the the There's no grounds for a denial, but I but uh i this is certainly not as certainly not as easy as easy to deny as if they were requesting a plan amendment. Right. Um there is a presumption that that you should approve it if it's consistent with a complan.

3:43:54So I said last time I didn't wanna deny it and I still don't wanna deny it because I recognize people have property rights. No different than anybody else who's come up to speak today. If they want to go and build something on their property, they have rights to do that too. So w we recognize proper and there's a property rights element in the comp land, we recognize property rights. To me, this case comes down to And this will be interesting, David,

3:44:24going into next year. What is compatibility? And Barbara I'll apologise 'cause I don't mean to be putting words in your mouth, but

3:44:37to the applicant compatibility is I did an analysis and see I've determined my analysis determines this is compatible because you voted over here this way and you voted over here that way.

3:44:51There may be some argument for that, some justification. But I also give some weight to some of the arguments made by the residents today that the mass, the scale of the projects that we're talking about is not the same. as this mass, the scale of this project. Hudson Family Trails, acreage is and total unit count is no and is not the same as what this project

3:45:22is. And I think one resident pointed out that at Hudson Family Trail it affected six or seven property owners and I quickly pulled it up on the aerial and that was true. I think I counted seven. There's more property owners that are affected by This property. Why I say to the David, what'll be interesting next year is we have H B 399 that the governor signed. And we're going to actually have to define what's compatible. And the law says we're also going to have to define

3:45:53what mitigating measures can be implemented when things aren't compatible. So that's a that's something we're all going to have to figure out. So my understanding

3:46:05the staff is supposedly working on Complan and L D C provisions to implement that bill.

3:46:11Well and I'm sure they'll be a subject of great debate when they get to the Planning Commission. And the public needs to keep their eye on that ball because that's that's right now What's compatible? There were there I looked in the Comp Plan glossary. There's no definition of compatible in our Comp Plan glossary. So I know typically It law. If there's not something that's a defined term, then we look to what's

3:46:42the common meaning of that word. And this is interesting because while we were talking today, I was researching this and looking this up. In a legal context, compatible generally means the capacity for two or more things, activities, or energy. Entities to coexist, function, or be held concurrently in harmony without causing material interference, conflict, or negative alteration. And the exact definition depends on the area of the law, and the first example given is land use and zoning. In

3:47:13zoning law, a compatible use means developments or activities can sit near each other in harmony. Well, I'm not quite sure what inharmony means, but to me... If there was harmony here, I wouldn't have a full house.

3:47:32And I think it's important.

3:47:36for the applicant to continue to work with the neighbors to find some way to coexist in harmony. Clearly there's not harmony right now. There's discontent, but I recognize both sides of this this argument.

3:48:01Can I add something? Your code actually defines compatibility.

3:48:05Where 'cause I

3:48:06It's five it's five twenty two point four A one compatibility of uses. It actually exists. Your comp line gets implemented by your code. You actually should read the code.

3:48:17Oh words, read it.

3:48:20It's

3:48:23Instead of reading

3:48:24the comp plan glossary.

3:48:25Right, but it but you that's because your code implements your comp plan and you actually adopted development standards five twenty two point four A one. I was read it and I was like I thought the same thing about compatibility. but it actually says it in the code.

3:48:45lot sizes, buffers between uses or other information that the project, as designed, transitions appropriately to adjacent uses, Transitions appropriately to adjacent uses or effectively sh shields adjacent uses in the absence of LOT and use compatibility. your code has said that if you buffer You can achieve compatibility, even if you don't have lock compatibility.

3:49:16Does the code define what is effectively shield?

3:49:18Yes, it does. It's in your land development code, what you've adopted for buffers. What the the county has said in the land development code between this use and this use, this is your required buffer. What I did was exceeded that three, four times. the the basics here and say It says or and I can j what the other ones did by the way, the ones I told you about, they just went with the code. What I did was I said, okay, I'm gonna achieve use compatibility, lock capability, and I'm

3:49:48gonna do the buffer. The other projects came in and read this and said I'm just gonna have to all I gotta do is comply with the code compliant buffer and I'm compatible. As a matter of your code.

3:50:01Well the only difference between that and the land development code is right now you don't have the zoning. That's what you're here asking for.

3:50:08But that's but the but the land development code tells me when I'm if I'm zoned what's compatible.

3:50:13First you

3:50:14gotta get it. Well we can stay ag to ag and there's no buffer. So but anyway I don't want to I don't um it's not my job to argue with you. I just recall I just wanted to point out there's actually a code that's been implemented. Instead of after we get dissolved.

3:50:31Okay.

3:50:35To me. Speaking for myself.

3:50:42We're compatible. when maybe only one or two people have a complaint or a minor complaint. Not when a room full of people have a complaint. And again, I don't want to deny the project. for me and I'm not making a motion. I'll let somebody else go out on a limb here.

3:51:05I think a continuance is an order so that they can go work out their differences. And I asked the applicant, I I don't know. You don't The public probably doesn't get to see the ex party disclosures, but I did have a discussion with Barbara and her clients.

3:51:24And I asked if they had any additional neighborhood meetings and the answer is no. I personally think some additional neighborhood meetings and hopefully some ability to compromise on both sides. can get the issue resolved. But I think we'll have harmony, compatibility and harmony, when there's not a line of people that need to continue to come up here and tell us about

3:51:54how this is not compatible with their Way of life.

3:52:00And I'm sorry. in my opinion.

3:52:06The fact that whatever builder you're dealing with doesn't want to buy one acre lots. is a U problem, not a community problem.

3:52:18I think I'd probably be dialing and finding somebody that might want to do some larger lots, because I think that's going to be the answer out here, at least for me. We'll see what the other guys want to recommend and what the board does. But that's just where I'm at with it.

3:52:42Well, Barbara, you know, I think it's uh it's a borderline issue here and

3:52:49How do you feel about a continuance?

3:52:57Four years. Four neighborhood meetings. Three of them s together, a long separation, a fourth one.

3:53:08We have continued. And continued. We've struck the balance here. Okay.

3:53:18It's not the project that we had started with either. It's far from the project that this property owner started with To begin with.

3:53:28And that needs to be recognized. I mean we're looking at it as a point in time today But it it's been four years. and the project that we started with, which was consistent with the comp plan. was a much different project. Then we bring you today.

3:53:51Mr. Chair, I I mean obviously we're here belaboring this. There's a lot of people here. This isn't an easy one. Um I mean to me it comes down to like we've already said, I mean the the land use is in place. They're coming in asking for something below the land use, acknowledging the fact that there needs to be a change to zoning. I think over the four years I think that they've worked tirelessly with the neighborhood. We have problems every project that comes with us it seems like has the adjacent

3:54:21property owner doesn't always want what's going to be in their backyard. I think they've made a lot of accommodations. I think they made a lot of concessions, a lot of changes to their plan. I think they've gone above and beyond in what their Proposing here. They've shown there's compatibility or the adjacent pro surrounding projects have been proven to be compatible with approvals given. Um so I I just in the essence of getting something on the table, I move for approval.

3:54:50I'll

3:54:51second that. Let me one one second. I I do need to I want to add this condition for the rural disclosure rural disclosure condition to the conditions of approval with my motion.

3:55:02And well, I'm wondering if you can add that fire will take a second look.

3:55:07Yeah, no, add that fire will take a second look at this before it goes to the board.

3:55:12Okay. For emergency access.

3:55:14Yes, for emergency access, correct.

3:55:17A motion and a second. Is there any further discussion on the motion?

3:55:23If not, all in favor of the motion. Signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Pose. Mike sign? Aye. Motion carries.

3:55:36Alright.

3:55:42Gianna, what is the board date? Mm-hmm.

3:55:48June sixteenth.

3:56:13Yes, sir.

3:56:23Yeah, oh yeah.