R Sub eight drive-thru facilities and parking lots

1:48:23So R Sub eight, is this a 15-minute item or is this?

1:48:36It's important.

1:48:37It is important.

1:48:38Go

1:48:38ahead. Morning Commissioner, Mr. Chairman. Uh this next item is a continuation of a planning discussion that first came about in I believe June uh at the September nineteenth Uh Board of County Commissioners meeting Uh there was a discussion about car washes and how to go about Um amending the land development code and what kind of code changes we can do to facilitate better planning associated with car

1:49:09washes, those included Um I imitating the self-storage ordinance, section eleven oh five of the land development code, making a a code uh s similar to self-storage for car washes. uh establishing proximity requirements between Uh car washes so that you don't have a bunch of them all in one location taking up valuable. uh commercial frontages in our corridors. And then also uh providing for some design standards uh for those car washes.

1:49:39And uh the board directed the planning department to go forth and to make those uh uh draft amendments and to be presented later uh to the Board of County Commissioners in the next couple of months. Um today we're here to talk about uh drive-thru facilities and parking lots and the ability to influence commercial development and m make for a better public environment and public space or public realm rather. uh for those commercial developments and I'd like to introduce our

1:50:10our principal planner for Monrange Planning, Chris uh Mr. Chris Demansh, who's gonna walk through a presentation with regard to those drive-thru facilities and and parking lots and how they influence um development.

1:50:25Good morning commissioners. Uh for the record, Chris Demonche Planning and Development. It's good to be back before you. We had a great discussion last month discussing the car wash uh business uh item. And of course we're back here today to talk more with you about the drive-thru facilities associated with fast food restaurants, financial institutions, pharmacies, and other similar uses.

1:50:47Looking forward and seeking your guidance and direction, uh, we'd like to discuss some site plan organization, building location, and site circulation uh items with you. We have some uh different photos we're gonna show you and kind of walk you through some some um some ideas that we have. Uh we're looking to design and develop guidelines for sites with drive-thru facilities, uh specifically looking at placing um Parking to the side and the rear of buildings and reducing uh stacking requirements. We're also looking at uh locating buildings

1:51:17close to roads uh or internal streets uh with guidelines to distinguish between major arterial roads and local roads and streets. We want to prioritize parking to the side and rear of buildings. We want to optimize landscaping, uh providing more communication between sites and buildings and creating space between the buildings without the use of buffer yards. And of course we want to establish code flexibility for sites that cannot meet the above proposed changes that I've just mentioned. And of course we want to

1:51:47include the ability to place parking or drive-thru facilities between buildings and this road and street. And of course we have some concept illustrations we want to show you. The first illustration we have here is a mid-block site design. As you can see, the drive-thru facility is located closer to the roadway. The drive-thru itself is located behind the building. There's a large amount of landscaping, particularly along the drive-thru itself

1:52:18that provides substantial buffering from vehicles as well as noise that may come from the drive-thru facility itself. But again, this is an example of a mid-block site design, something that we we believe we could certainly implement here in Pasco County. Next, we have an outparcel site design. In this example, the drive-thru facility is an outparcel associated with an existing mall. It's on a corner. Again, the emphasis is to provide

1:52:48the drive-thru facility towards the rear of the drive-thru itself, providing good circulation overall throughout the site, but you know, keep the building closer to the road, making the ro the building itself be the sign, uh providing more um uh communication to those driving by of of what's there on that particular parcel.

1:53:10Can I can I ask you a question before we go further? So I'm looking at these sites and you get a lot of parking spaces there. Most of you drive through car washers when they're done, those vacuums and everything else set up. That's not a car wash.

1:53:22This is a drive-thru facility. Yeah. All right, never mind. We'll get that. Okay. Yes, that's correct. Uh so this is a drive-thru facility. Um but

1:53:29that at first too.

1:53:33Mm-hmm. Okay, this is But this is an example of what you could see with an outparcel. Again, bringing the building closer, communicating more with the site itself and providing greater visibility to those uh walking by as well as driving by with the building itself being the sign. Next, we have a multi-tenant building site design. In this, we have more of a synergy between two separate buildings. The drive-thru itself is located along the rear of the site. It's shielded through not only

1:54:03landscaping, but but keeping it towards the rear of the drive-thru facility itself. Outside of between the two buildings, we have some outside dining area. We have area for people to walk and meet and converse. With this particular type of design, you're not having to get back in your car and go to another building, as is the case in many times many areas around the county. You have two buildings, you could have complementary uses here. You could have an ice cream parlor next to

1:54:33a fast food or some other type of commercial use where people have a reason to go to one as well as the other, or they

1:54:43you know, the commercial use or the the drive-through facility. So

1:54:46I'm so excited about this this because it s if you see what's in the front there, it takes some of that space and makes it um it activates that space between the buildings for for good public use. Yeah, it's very good.

1:55:05This is an example of culvers. Uh it's culverse from out of state, but it's a great example of what you can do when you bring the buildings closer to the roadway. Again, the building acts more of the sign than the monument sign you see there in the photo. Uh you have uh a sidewalk in front of the the the building site itself, parking to the rear. Uh so So it's much more visible than if this building was set back with parking in front of it between the roadway and the building itself.

1:55:39Now there are instances uh where you know you're on an arterial roadway and It may be better suited to not place the buildings as closely to the road as what I've just shown in the previous examples. The drive-through facilities or commercial use overall may be part of a larger site. And so it may be more advantageous to bring the buildings closer to an interior roadway or an interior drive. And an example we can show you is North

1:56:10Point Village Shopping Center on 54. And of course we have Point Village Drive and of course the buildings themselves are brought closer to the this internal drive and you'll see that there is parking between the buildings and State Road 54.

1:56:25If I could make a comment on that one, on this one. So my son and daughter-in-law live in Greenwich, Connecticut. Very nice community. And when they come to visit, this is where she wants to go because she said everywhere else that we go is a strip mall.

1:56:42So this is a great little walkable tiny little example of what we could have More of the Yeah.

1:56:51Now these next few photos they don't show a drive-through facility, but they they certainly express the the concept that we'd are proposing to you today that we believe would uh be real beneficial uh for site planning purposes. In this you see the buildings they're closer, there's a sidewalk in front of the buildings, there's walkability throughout this development here.

1:57:18And of course there's the parking area that is between the buildings and State Road 54. So it this particular type of setup works best for this particular type of roadway.

1:57:33And of course we have Glory Days. This is a full service restaurant, but as you can see in the picture, we have the parking on the side and the rear of the building. The building itself is brought closer to the roadway. There's a sidewalk that uh in a crosswalk area as well in the photo.

1:57:51This is an example we have. This is EOS Fitness. If you're driving uh east on State Road 54. Uh planning staff worked closely with the applicant on the site plan. Um instead of having parking located between the roadway itself and the building, we were able to Work with them on bringing the building closer to the roadway and having the parking to the side of the building. And as you're Driving along this road you can certainly see that building Much more clearer. Uh the building itself really

1:58:22serves as a sign versus if this was set back like you typically see with some larger buildings or or strip centers.

1:58:28You know, it's a great example. Look to the left. And look to the right. And look what all these businesses are doing. With the signs. They all got pretty much illegal signs out there because whatever. That's a great that's a that's a really good picture.

1:58:50Now we realize too that there are small parcels and they may not be able to meet these standards. So We've uh put together some. Some sketches. Uh one of our our planners on staff, uh Jenny deGrande put together some sketches for us that really showcase um what can still be accomplished. Not necessarily with parking um strictly to the side or to the rear, but just we wanted to show some examples. So this is one where you you could be on a corner site

1:59:20Next, we have uh two additional um small lot designs. This would be a mid-parcel example.

1:59:32And of course we found an example out of state. This is Stan's Donuts and Coffee. Now What's interesting about this particular site is It's a small site. There is parking to the side. However, they do have the drive-thru uh wrap around one half of the building and it loops in the front, but you really can't see that driveway that comes in the front of the building because they've added the addition of the pergola between Uh you know the building and the um s I'm well I should say the drive-thru

2:00:03lane is located between the building and the pergola. Uh the pergola adds a a nice dimension to the site. It takes away some of the visibility that you would see of vehicles exiting the drive-thru itself. And so this is another um example of what we could see and really push for uh going forward.

2:00:25And of course uh there's obviously uh as the examples I've shown where you have the small lots and you can't necessarily provide uh parking to the side and to the rear uh and you have to wrap around a drive-through uh lane in front of the building. We're we'd like to present some ideas that we have versus with by-right versus conditional use options. By having this, you enable flexibility within the land development code when site conditions present these design challenges. You can look at uh

2:00:55permitting drive-through facilities by right when parking is provided on the side of the rear. Uh you could require conditional use permit approval. Uh when parking cannot be limited to the side of the rear of buildings. And lastly, you could require conditional use permit approval if the drive-through facility and or travel aisle is located within the setback area between the building facade and the street. So uh we wanted to throw that out there as something that staff could come back to you with for um Flexibility

2:01:25within the land development code. And I'm happy to answer any questions you have.

2:01:31I'll make a like make a comment. Uh I love the picture when you showed culverse and they made made a mention of the sign. With Cumbers the U.S. Buildings right to the road. the monument sign which is small, hard to see from bushes and landscaping, et cetera. And then and I think it's been a big problem on US nineteen for Paris people redeveloping, et cetera, just because You're not gonna see. the sign because you're gonna be driving past it by the time you get there. But you like you say, that building is now the sign and it's a much more prominent fe feature. I would love to see

2:02:01us to try to put some type of program together. Start up and down nineteen where we can take these

2:02:09Let them redevelop because some of them will tear the building down. And let's try to get to that type of structure. People they got the parking to the sides and that buildings closer to the street. All of a sudden that even signed.

2:02:20Charlie's just needs to go away on nineteen in holiday. They put the building up close to the street. Um I could show you picture here uh when we come back.

2:02:30drove by it. So I I think this is something and again with the struggle we have on nineteen, I think this would work up and down real easy.

2:02:38This would work every

2:02:39I think it'd be phenomenal.

2:02:40Frankly we're a little late to this show. This is what most Are doing.

2:02:44I

2:02:44think Terry was doing this in his previous job somewhere else. So I'm glad that they brought it to us.

2:02:52So so let me ask, does does anyone else in other places maybe that you've done it, does do uh other people have have they put incentives out there to make this happen for redevelopment?

2:03:01A lot of times it's it's in the code itself. It's not so much of incentive, it's just a it's a standard that's adopted by that community. But maybe Terry can speak a little more to it from his experience.

2:03:11Typically the incentive is the by right aspect of it, that if you build uh as the community wants it, it's able to get in a lot quicker. Um and so there's a there's a time component associated with that. But the o the bigger incentive of course is the economic one. Bringing the building uh closer to the street. has a huge uh makes a huge impact and a huge emphasis to the corridor itself. If you notice in this picture all the way in the back there is your typical shopping center.

2:03:42um which you can't tell because you see that there's even a McDonald's and Culver's, which are corporate type businesses, um, they are they have taken the frontage and they're making money on the frontage. And that's that's really the incentive that a lot of these um businesses and companies will get. when they when they follow through it with this type of design.

2:04:05And and again one I think part of the reason US nineteen struggled so much is just because it's so hard to redevelop because it's expensive. Tearing down builders is not cheap. Regoing forward. But something like this, if there's a way that we can Push it. I mean for fresh development, great. Absolutely. I mean that that helps the out process. And I love

2:04:22I love the impact

2:04:23impetus for that.

2:04:24If this were to happen on US nineteen, they would they would get the redevelopment incentive for mobility fees that we have in place. they would be able to participate in the existing incentive programs that we have. We could we could tie them together and advertise it. better so that people can understand that if they were to do something like this You get good timing through the code. but also you'd be able to participate, especially on nineteen in certain incentives. Yeah.

2:04:51Let's

2:04:51put a put a push

2:04:52to make this happen. Does this covers have a drive-thru?

2:04:55Yes. It's at

2:04:56the rear. Where is

2:04:57it at? It's in the Is there

2:04:59a driveway on this side of the building between the street and the

2:05:02No, it's on the back side.

2:05:04Hmm.

2:05:05It's it's on the back side on that one. Yeah.

2:05:08Terry, is this to our south? Is this in Manatee? Is this the

2:05:14No this is actually uh A culver's that I helped to design in Orland Park, Illinois.

2:05:22How long ago?

2:05:23Southwest Chicago suburbs of Chicago.

2:05:30Now they did they did try and have us do this for a building that Barbara brought to us on Darlington and 19. And um we we overrode what the planning was trying to do because they wanted this the building up to the street. Um and now it's conventional strip mall stuff and so you can look at that as an example. But I'm um and I'm sorry to cut you off, but I'm a hundred percent for this.

2:05:57Well this is is very the not the architectural design, but it's very similar to to a project that they've done in manatee that is both a McDonald's and a culverse and And the I don't know that they're together, but they were out parcels that were created. from a

2:06:19uh shopping center that was not going very well.

2:06:23Yes.

2:06:23Let's put it that way. And so they cut the two or three out parcels along the street. built new projects there and then and then redeveloped the shopping center in in the back. So that's a

2:06:38And that's a very familiar story. That's exactly what happened in this case too. A shopping center not doing well. They carved or subdivided parcels out front, took old parking lots that were just empty parking lot. Nobody parked there and planted two buildings.

2:06:54One thing you have to avoid uh in doing that from a planning's perspective is cutting too many lots along the street frontage so you don't see the shopping center in the back, because I've seen that done too. Right.

2:07:05Um you know It's interesting that we're having this discussion because I've been noticing if you go to the target in Trinity, which you guys probably don't, but others may Yeah. The front corner by Mercy Way and Little Road, is a place where homeless are hanging out. If you if you were to walk there, I've gone there to pick up trash and take out snipe signs and it's reeks of urine. There's no one has ever parked

2:07:35there because there's we have overparked that part of the um strip strip center. And you have all these banks and and fast foods fronting Little Road. Um but then you get to that corner and you know what I'm talking about. Uh it's empty. So I went to see if it was possible. Oh yeah, we took some pictures. Oh that oh that you dropped a on the map? So no one ever parks over here. There's Target way to heck down there. And um So

2:08:06all this area is

2:08:10used for nefarious reasons. And I would love to see us Activate that corner for them and say, put in another out parcel, we'll get more tax. Tax money will alleviate a problem that is happening there. Um but the MPUD in the MPUD the credits are all taken. So I don't know what can be done. This is owned by Target actually. Uh can we do a county initiated opportunity

2:08:41for them to put something in that corner? It's a win for everybody. Uh I don't know how that works, but you know,

2:08:47we

2:08:47could

2:08:48have a culver sitting sitting right

2:08:49there.

2:08:49It's funny, Commissioner Starkey I've driven to them many times coming in from that way, and I've I've I've kind of noticed it but I never thought much more about it. But you bring up a good point. Yeah. And then maybe the golfing mall, same thing. Yeah. Of those out parcels that are out in front of them. You know the sleep member of the T Mobile that come in there? They front it right out there. Yeah. And they get good attention.

2:09:09That well that whole mall's a mess. Yeah. We need to work.

2:09:11Well demographics are demographics, but

2:09:14We need We really need we

2:09:17are you looking for us to say let's go forward? Yeah, we we would be looking for the board to give us direction to make some proposed amendments to the land development code. Uh

2:09:25I I I love the changes, the opportunities and again if we could put something out get out get get it out there to all the retail and whatever that wants to come in to re redevelop up and down, especially nineteen, it could work in forty one, three oh one as well, but Let's let's go take a look and see what the market says. Okay. Okay. All right. So with that it's twelve ten, we'll break for lunch. Back at one thirty.